Latest / INSPIRE STORY / #080- STORY INSPIRE:Protect Our Parks 16 brings together a lively and unpredictable conversation about nature, wildlife, conservation,

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#080- STORY INSPIRE:Protect Our Parks 16 brings together a lively and unpredictable conversation about nature, wildlife, conservation, · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. David,
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: welcome to the show. Pull on up to the microphone
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: to get that sucker up like a fist from your face.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: I first heard about you from that guy, Art Bell,
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: the GOAT.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: The greatest.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was... I used to love listening to his
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: show coming home from the comedy store. We'd come home
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: at like 1 o'clock in the morning. Coast to coast
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: with Art Bell from the kingdom of Nye. It was awesome.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: And that's when I first got turned on to your work.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: So tell everybody you started off in law enforcement.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: That's your background.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: How did you get involved in this mystery of people
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: going missing?
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: So I had already written a couple of books. And
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I was at Yosemite National Park doing some research on
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: another topic. And two rangers are following me around. And
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I went back to my room that was at the park.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: And about an hour and a half later, one of
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: the rangers comes to my room. And he's in plain clothes.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: And he knocks on my door. And he says, hey, Dave,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I'm Ranger so-and-so. I'm here off duty. I want to
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: talk to you about some missing people. I said, come
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: on in. So we start talking and he says that
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: he knew about me, probably the way he knew about me.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: And he says, I know you're from law enforcement. Somebody
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: needs to look into this. About an hour and a
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: half later, his partner shows up at the door. And
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: they said that they've worked at different parks over the years.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: And while they were working at those parks, there were
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: missing people. And he said at the beginning, there was
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of publicity, a lot of people interested, a
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: lot of activity. And then with time, within about 10,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: 15 days, all of that would end. And he said,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: we got concerned and we did a Freedom of Information
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Act against our own agency to get the reports and
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: we couldn't get the reports. And then we did a
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Freedom of Information Act request on other cases and we
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: couldn't get the reports. And we got concerned because after
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: that initial 10, 14-day period of searching is all over,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: there's nothing else that happens. That's it. And he said,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: somebody ought to look into this because there's a lot
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: of people missing and the Park Service doesn't talk about it.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Now, what was he assuming? Was he assuming something nefarious
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: was going on or was he assuming that it was
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: a lack of commitment to finding the bodies? Because you
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: got to assume most people after 14 days lost in
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: the woods are probably going to die.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: I think all the above. He thought that there were
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: too many people going missing. There wasn't enough follow up
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: being done. And nobody seemed to care.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: So if you were being pragmatic and you weren't like
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: diving into mysteries and the stuff that I like, the
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: fun stuff, you would say, well, they don't have any resources.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: You know, there's not enough people to go looking. When
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: you think about the actual square miles that you would
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: have to cover to find a body. And then also
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: the reality of predators and all these different animals that
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: are going to eat bodies. If a body's there, there's
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: not going to be much left. You spent obviously you
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: spent time in the woods. Have you ever seen a
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: dead mountain lion?
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: No.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Me neither.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: I've never seen a dead bear.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: I've only seen dead bears because I was hunting. I've
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: never seen a dead bear. Well, no, that's not true. No,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: we did find one. But I think it's very rare,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: but that one was recently dead. He was killed by
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: another bear. I think most of the time when you
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: find dead animals, it's very recent. And if an animal's
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: dead and it's left alone in the woods within a
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: certain amount of time, something's going to eat it. Everything's
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: going to eat it, including the bones. There's almost nothing
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: left by the time they get done with it.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: A hundred percent.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: But one thing I learned from being around rangers in
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: all these years now is that there's few things that
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: belong to us that we go into the woods with
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: that are always going to be there. Namely our shoes,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: belt buckles, belt buckles, leather, anything, um, the rubber waistband
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: of your underwear, these kind of things stay forever. A rifle,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: a pistol, a bow. And those things you're going to find.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: But getting back to the point of these guys, there
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: were too many people going missing in a short period
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: of time that no one seemed to care about. That
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: was really their main focus. And somebody ought to look
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: into it. Somebody ought to start collecting data, nobody did.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: And maybe somebody from the outside, they're the inside, maybe
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: somebody from the outside would have more luck putting this
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: all together rather than them. That's kind of the gist
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Well, there's some cases that are just flat out weird.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Like some cases, like people go missing, they die, animals
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: eat them. That's a wrap. That makes sense to me.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: But there's a few cases. And one of them you
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: covered was a guy, I believe he was from Canada,
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: that went skiing in New York. And he went missing.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: And then he showed up 2,500 miles later in California
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: with his ski clothes on. And he didn't know what happened.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He was a fireman from, I think, Toronto that
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: went with a bunch of friends to New York on
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: like a weekend ski trip. And the guys were all
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: getting together at the end of the day to leave.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: They couldn't find him. He says he wakes up on
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: a truck traveling from like Reno to Sacramento.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Woke up in the back of a truck?
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: No, sitting in the front seat. And he said that
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: he was, as he wakes up, he's talking. It's not
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: like he was asleep and woke up. It's like his
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: mind suddenly flashed open. Hey, you're alive now. You can
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: keep talking. And he goes, but I was talking to
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: the driver and we're traveling. The driver drops him off
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: at Sacramento airport. He doesn't remember anything, but he remembers
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: his home phone number. He calls his wife in Toronto
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: and she goes, hey, everyone's searching for you thinking you're
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: still at the ski resort. He has all the ski
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: clothes on.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: How many days later?
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I don't remember. But even he doesn't make sense of it.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: He doesn't know how he got in the truck. The
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: truck driver left. Nobody knows who the truck driver was.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: That was kind of the whole story. It wasn't a lot.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: So he didn't ask the truck driver, hey, where'd you
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: pick me up?
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: I think he was embarrassed.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Just embarrassed that he was in the truck and doesn't
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: remember how he got in there?
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Okay. So he didn't say anything. And did he have
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: any memories from skiing to like, did he ever do
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: like regressive hypnosis or anything?
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: If he did, it never went public.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: Hmm.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Is that the weirdest one? Oh, no.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: There's weird ones.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: What's the weirdest one you heard of?
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: The strangest disappearance story. There's a lot of people that
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: disappear that don't have a memory. And if you look
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: back and you study missing people, those people historically have
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: been abducted. And There's something about that abduction experience where
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: they can take away part of your mind.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: You think alien abduction. That's what you're saying.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Alien entity.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Something.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Some type of foreign.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Just want to be clear. We're not talking about like
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: a bad person abducting a person.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: No.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: We're talking about some kind of entity.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: And they take away part of that mind where they
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: were probably doing something to you that they don't want
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: you to know.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: And there's a lot of those. There's a whole segment
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: of people that I have chronicled that were truck drivers
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: who have amnesia, who were found in conditions that were
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: very strange. There was a truck driver in the Midwest
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: where salt of the earth kind of guy, drove independently,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: wifing a couple of kids. He picks up a load.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I want to say it was pigs. And his truck
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: is found like outside of Indiana on a little two
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: lane highway stopped on the side of the road. He's
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: not anywhere to be found, but his coat is found
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: in a ditch on the other side of the other lane.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: So the sheriff comes out, they do a huge search, flyovers, canines,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: goes on for like four or five days, nothing. Week
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: and a half later, his body is found in that
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: field in the spot where they had searched all that
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: time Impossible to miss. Coroner says he's been dead for
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: two weeks. The sheriff can't make sense of that because
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: he searched that with dogs and people. That guy should
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: have been there. But, Joe, I have 1,500 of those
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: cases where canines were brought in, multiple canine teams, multiple searches,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: and people were not found. And the point I try
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: to make about this is that it's not that the
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: searchers are inept. Because I don't believe that. And I
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: don't believe that the canines fail multiple, multiple times because
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that can happen. I don't believe they
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: were there when they were searching. They were left there
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: later on. And so you've been you've into this for
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: a long time, right? What was the first case that
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: you looked into that got you thinking something weird's going on?
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Probably would have been at Yosemite. And there was a
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: girl named Stacy Aris. And she, just weirdly, she grew
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: up like five miles from me. I grew up in
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: a little city, Cupertino, California. She grew up in Saratoga,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: the next town over. She went with her dad on
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: a trip by horse sponsored by a contractor in the
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: park at Yosemite. And they were going to ride into
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: this place called the High Sierra Camp. Her and her
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: dad and five other people. And they get escorted in
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: by a cowboy contractor. And they come to these cabins
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: And her dad's an older guy. They get to the cabin.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: And she says, hey, dad, I want to go over
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: here to the point. I want to take some pictures.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: She brings her camera. And one of the guys, a
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: 72-year-old guy, is sitting at that point. And she goes,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go right there and sit with him
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: and take some pictures. He goes, sure. Dad watches her
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: walk out. They sits down. Old, old guy. Barely could
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: ride the horse. She's taking pictures. She gets up. And
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: down at the bottom of the hill, there's a small lake.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: And surrounding the lake, there's trees. She walks down into
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: the trees, presumably to take pictures of the lake, but
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: she doesn't come back. Big search. I'm talking about one
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: of the biggest searches in Yosemite history. And they find
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: the lens cap to her camera inside that path in
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: the tree line. They never find her. And That happened
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: 46 years ago. I filed the Freedom of Information Act
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: for that report and all the investigation into it. And
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: I get denied.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: I appealed.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: I got denied. Finally, a special agent from the Park Service,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: just so people know. The Park Service has uniformed police officers,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: National Park Service police that patrol their parks. And they
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: go to the National Law Enforcement Academy. Up above them,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: they have special agents, detectives, and they are doing all
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: the follow-up work that the police officers in the field do.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: This case goes to a special agent. There's been nothing
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: done on this case in 40 years. The special agent
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: calls me. Why do you want the case? I said, well,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: that's an irrelevant question. According to FOIA, you can't ask that.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: And he goes, well, I want to know. I said, well,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: It's been 47 years. I doubt anyone's looked at it.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Have you looked at it? No, nobody's looked at it.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I said, well, I'd like a copy of it just
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: to understand what happened. He goes, you're never going to
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: get the case. This guy's name was Special Agent Yu.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Why Yu? I said, why? And he says, none of
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: your business. You're never going to get it. I said,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: first of all, why talk to me like that? I'm
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: prior law enforcement. I'm not being rude. I just want
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: to know. He goes, forget it. Drop it. You're never
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: going to see it. I said, no, I want that case.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: And he goes, you know, you've never seen any other
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: missing person case and you're not going to see this one.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I said, whoa, I have over 30 missing person cases
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: from your agency from around the United States that I
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: FOIA before and I've received. You're a liar. You said
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: that to me. I said, no, I'm not a liar.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I don't lie. And this is the truth. And he goes, well,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: you're not getting this one. Anything else you want to know?
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I said, no, I think you've done it. And that
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: was it. In that amount of time, I've really found
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: out nothing more about the Stacey Harris case. 14-year-old girl disappeared,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: never found. Nobody's ever done anything on the case in
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: 40 years. I still haven't seen it. Now, I talked
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: to Tim Burchett, who you had in here the other day.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: And I explained to him, I want a meeting with Burgum.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: And I want to lay out what I have and
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: explain the obstructions.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Who's Burgum?
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: The head of the Department of the Interior.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Doug Burgum.
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: And explain to him the obstructions that are happening in
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: his agency. Those are our reports. If nobody's looked at
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: it in 40-plus years, what does it matter if I
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: have it?
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: The people that were working back then aren't working anymore.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: It's not like anyone's going to get in trouble.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: No. Half of them are dead.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: And Tim said, okay, I'll have my people get a
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: hold of you. They got a hold of me. They
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: said that they called DOI. They said that DOI people said, yeah,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: we'll get a hold of you. I called them three times.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: They won't call me back.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: So what do you think is going on?
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: So when you look at the totality of, and let's
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: just talk about Yosemite. As I dug into it, there's
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: probably over 50 people missing in Yosemite as we talk
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: right now. When I asked for a list from Yosemite,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: from the Department of the Interior 12 years ago, They
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: said they don't have a list. I asked for a
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: list of missing people from the entire system in the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Department of Interior. They said, we don't have a list.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: And I said, well, okay, I've written so many books.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: I'm a printed author. I'm going to ask you to
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: put that list together for me. According to the rules,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: I fit that criteria to ask.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: But they said they don't have a list.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Right. But I asked them to put one together.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: And they said, we'll get back to you. They said, no,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: you don't qualify. But if you want us to put
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: together a list from the entire system, it's going to
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: cost you $ 1. 4 million. If you want a list from Yosemite,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: that's going to cost you $ 34, 000. So that got me
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: really upset. Over the next two years, I put the
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: list together. Joe, the third year, you know what Yosemite did?
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: They released a list of missing people from Yosemite. So
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I know I got all the people from Yosemite. I
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: wrote about them in my books. They still haven't released
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: a List from the entire system.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: So do you think they released it because you were
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: pressuring them? No, it's like you could look at it
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: a bunch of different ways. I'm trying to like look
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: at it from the skeptics perspective. You'd say, well, this
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: is clear. A bunch of people don't want to do
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: their job. They're lazy. They don't like this guy coming
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: along and asking for information. But you think there's something
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: weird going on. So I found on.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: Their website that was sent to him in 2011.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: It says that.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: The appeal was properly invoked because of exemptions 7A. And
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: here's– I'll let you read what that is.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: 7A permits the withholding of records of information compiled for
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: law enforcement purposes but only to the extent that the
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: production of such law enforcement records or information could reasonably
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings. So– They could
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: withhold it because you could interfere with enforcement proceedings?
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: 40 years later. Or 30 years later, I guess.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: That's fucking weird. The exemption is intended to prevent premature
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: disclosure of the investigatory materials that might be used in
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: law enforcement action. 40 years later?
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: It says the incident is still ongoing. The criminal investigation
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: of the incident is still ongoing.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: 40 years later?
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: What?
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Tinfoil hat firmly placed on your head. What do you
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: think is going on?
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: So first of all, missing people investigations are not criminal investigations.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: There's nothing criminal about disappearing. If it's a criminal investigation
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: and there's criminal aspects to it, it shouldn't be a
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: missing person case. It ought to be suspicious circumstances investigated
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: by a criminal investigator.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: It has a classification as a missing person. And what
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: they're not saying there is what about the other 40
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: cases I've already gotten from them that are since that
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: that are missing person cases?
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: So that's a little weird, but I could also see
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: incompetent people that don't want to work. They don't want
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: to do their job. They're like, fuck this guy. I
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: don't want to do his work. I don't want to go.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Why is he asking me for this information? He's just
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: a kooky author. I could see that. But like, what
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: do you think? might be going on with these people?
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: So when I was in law enforcement, I worked on
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: the SWAT team and we had canines assigned to our team. Joe,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I can't ever remember us looking for someone with a
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: dog and the dog didn't find the person.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: I have 1,200 to 1,500 cases where they bring a
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: canine to find a missing person and the dog can't track,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: won't track, or turns around, comes down and sits down
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: and is not interested in tracking. That's totally outside the
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: behavior of a dog.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. We've all
• 19:08
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• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Meet your match with ZipRecruiter. Isn't that what happened to
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: that woman recently that went missing that was a part
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: of this whole group of scientists that were involved in
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: propulsion research?
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Reza? Yeah.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Same sort of situation, right? She was with her friend.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: They were hiking. They had just talked. The friend was
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: ahead of her. And the friend turned around to ask
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: her a question. She was gone. They do an investigation.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: They bring in dogs. Can't find anything. The lady's just gone.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: 100%. You're 100% right. It doesn't make any sense. And
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: it fit that 411 criteria that I laid down, which
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: is why I did a video about it. Her disappearance
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't make sense.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: So do you have suspicions? Like, do you think something...
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: supernatural is going on? Do you think something extraterrestrial or interdimensional?
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: What do you think is involved in these people going missing?
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: First of all, I don't know. In my books, I've
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: laid out facts and I let the viewer decide. But
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: one thing I did find, because I've written about a
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: lot of hunters that have disappeared. And let's say you
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: and I go out and we're going to go pig
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: hunting in at your friend's farm down the way. And
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: you say, hey, Dave, you go that way, and I'll
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: go that way, and I'll meet you in an hour. Okay.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: So in my world, I call that point of separation.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Every time on a missing hunter case, it's at that
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: point of separation that something happens. It never happens when
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: they're together. It always happens when people are alone. That's
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: point number one. Number two is the canine issue. Canine's
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: failure to pick up a scent, They bring in professional
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: trackers and they can't find tracks. That's not normal. A
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: lot of times, say in Alaska, they have some great
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: native trackers up there. And they can't find people. And
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: every other time they can't. So it's like if you're
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: going from A to B, you're going to leave a
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: scent and you're going to leave a track. Well, they
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: can't find that. And that's not normal. So I made
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: a movie called Missing 411 the Hunted. And in that movie,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: there was a case of 12 guys are planting trees
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: on the side of a mountain in Washington State. And
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: there's a herd of elk at the bottom of the mountain.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: And all of these guys see this classic UFO come
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: up the mountain, hover over one elk. The herd scatters,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: but one elk doesn't. It just stands there. And then
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: without anything between the UFO and the elk, it picks
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: the elk up. And it's gone. The guys all say,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: F this. I'm out of here. The whole group of
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: planners leave. And the manager for the company says, whoa, guys,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: hold on. What's going on? So they call MUFON out,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Mutual UFO Network. They bring some investigators out and they
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: interview these guys one by one. And they all say
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: the same thing. And they say, what we're afraid of
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: is we're next. They just took that elk, but we're next.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: So that's in the movie. Keep that in the back
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: of your mind. There's a guy named Carl in Wyoming.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: He's hunting in the Medicine Bow National Forest alone. See
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: some elk 100 yards away, lines up with his rifle.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: Boom.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: He says, Dave, it's like everything went into slow motion.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: I see the bullet come out the gun about three
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: or four feet and it drops to the ground. He says,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: I walked over. And he goes, the elk didn't move.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: And I pick it up, the bullet. I put the
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: bullet in my pocket. And then two alien-type entities walk
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: up to me. And they engage him in mind speak.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: And what they do is they eventually take him on
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: a craft. And they take the elk on the craft.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: And it's like the elk are frozen there in time.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: And they have him march behind a screen. And they said,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: we don't want you. You're going back, mind of mine.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: And he goes, what's going on? He goes, you're going back.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: He says, the next thing I remember is falling 10
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: to 15 feet. He's guessing. He hits his shoulder, probably
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: displaces it, and he rolls down a hill. They're already
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: searching for him because he's missing, his wife, the sheriff.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: They take him back and they take him to a hospital.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: And they're taking x-rays. And he had tuberculosis scars as
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: a kid. Those are no longer there. And he had
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: other medical issues that are completely cured. The investigators came
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: out and the Wyoming Department of Law Enforcement looked at
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: that bullet and did an exam on it. And they
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: could not figure out what that bullet hit to make
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: it deform in the manner that it did. I have
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: pictures of it in the movie. It's very odd.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: See if you can find the pictures online. Of course
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: you are.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: If you go to Tubi, T-U-B-I, Missing 411, The Hunted,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: the movie is there for free. You guys could watch it.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Also check out Gearheads Gone Wild. It's my friend's show.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, so no tuberculosis, scars, the bullet. So I'm talking
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: to Carl, and I said, well, why do you think
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: they sent you back? He says, well, I think it's
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: because I had a vasectomy. I said, oh, did they
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: say anything to you about that?
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: No.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Okay. So he was 91 years old when I interviewed him.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Sharp as a tack. How old was he when this
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: encounter happened? I think he was 38, 39. And again,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: this happened in the Medicine Bow National Forest.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Where is that?
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Medicine Bow is directly, I'd say about 75 miles northwest
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: of Cheyenne. So at about the same time, the Air
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Force Base in Cheyenne is having a group of cluster
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: UFO sightings above the ICBM sites. And that was never
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: made public at this time. It was 30, 40, 50
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: years later through Robert Hastings and other Air Force personnel
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: came out that these documents started to show up. So
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Carl would have never known what was happening there. At
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: the same time, these things in Cheyenne were happening. And
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: then you think about what's going on in Wyoming that
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: would cause this. But really the epiphany to me with
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Carl is there's a lot of people in the woods
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: that are found, quote unquote, they fell. They always fall alone.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: And they always fall in places where if you and
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: I are in the woods, we're going to be pretty
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: careful when we're alone. We're not going to be walking
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: off a cliff. We're going to be careful. lot of
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: these people are found under very unusual circumstances dead at
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: the bottom of an area that you just don't think
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: makes sense and they couldn't be tracked so with Carl
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: when you think about him being taken a hunter hunting
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: elk nobody gets seen nothing's heard so I did a
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: circumference around the area where he went and it's in
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: the movie There's a group of German hunters. Carl was German.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: German hunters that have disappeared. Nobody else but German that
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: have disappeared in that area. And then when you look
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: at the scope of what I've done in my work,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I went backwards and I found there's a lot of
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: German people that have been abducted. More than the normal
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: population of people. And these German hunters really were the
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: opening valve to me that something odd was happening with German.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: What do you think that is? Why German?
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I really wish I knew. That's probably outside my pay grade.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of rumors
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: about the Germans having associations with aliens.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: During the Nazi times?
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of, like, weird occult stuff going
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: on with the Nazis, right? And they were making, like,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: What looked like a UFO. They were constructing these things
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: that looked like flying saucers.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: You know the Travis Walton case?
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, very well.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: I have his bobblehead. He came in here. That's another
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: guy that went missing in the woods. And it's a
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: similar story. You know, he was taken aboard some sort
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: of a craft. Multiple witnesses, including people who hated him.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: One guy who he actually got in a fist fight
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: with earlier that day. And they all told the same story.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: They all passed polygraph tests. He shows up days later
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: with this crazy story that he had been hit by
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: a beam of light. They took him aboard this craft,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: fixed him, fixed whatever happened to him and communicated with
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: him and then dropped him back off.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: I know Travis well. In fact, I was doing a
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: conference in Phoenix and he brought his son to the
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: conference because his son wanted to meet me because a
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: lot of my work focused around things that happened to Travis.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: And I think Travis's case is probably not unique. And
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: there's probably thousands of people out there that just don't
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: want to talk about it. They just want it to
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: go away.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Because it's too weird and because you feel like a fool.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that and I think maybe they're afraid that they're
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: going to get pigeonholed as what you just said, odd, strange.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: You're a crazy person.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the Travis case is very interesting because, I mean,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: this is just– I mean I'm just saying this but–
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Most people who lie, they lie about a lot of stuff.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: They don't just have one crazy lie from the 1970s
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: that they keep repeating exactly the same way and have witnesses.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: The whole thing is very strange. Also, the fact that
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: he went missing in the woods and then showed up
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: multiple days later. There's nothing wrong with him. He's not dehydrated.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: He's not starving to death. He's fine. He's just weirded out.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: And he has this crazy story. And it's not like
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: his story is unique either. That's what's very strange. The
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: people that have been abducted, they all have very similar stories.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: They have similar stories about medical examinations, being taken aboard
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: a craft, things communicating with them telepathically. There's no delusions
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: of grandeur, like you're the chosen one, you're unique, you're Neo,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: you're the one we wanted, we came here for you.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: There's nothing kooky like that.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: It's all.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Just they want to know what's going on with the
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: human species. And they find a specimen. They do an examination.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: And it sounds completely insane. But we do that. We
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: do that with species. We do that with other things.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: We do that with primates. We do that with all
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: kinds of different animals that we research. I mean people do.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: There's probably someone doing it right now in the Congo,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: probably looking for some animals, tranquilizing some animal, doing studies
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: on it, releasing it back into the wild. We do
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: it all the time.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: One of the things I say at conferences is, what
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: if we're the ant farm?
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah. That took a while to find.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: So this is the bullet. So this is, thank you, Jamie.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: This is the bullet that this guy shot and it
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: hit something right in front of him. It just completely deformed.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: That bullet looks like it hit a wall, like it
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: hit like something like a giant plate of steel or something.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just completely flattened. That's not like a
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: bullet that hits an animal. You know, bullets that hit, well,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: could hit bones and stuff and get distorted, but it
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be intact like that. That looks like an intact
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: bullet that just flattened out hitting something completely immovable.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Very weird. One of the things that Carl said that
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: they told him is when he got on that craft
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: is he said, hey, you have my elk. And they said, yes, Carl.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: They said that we often come down to your earth
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: and we take animals and we study them.
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: And.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: You happen to be one of the people that was
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: right there when we were taking that, so we took
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: you too. And I've heard this before from other abductees
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: that just like you said, we look at and test animals. Apparently,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: they're monitoring the health of our planet by testing animals themselves.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: So he said they communicated with him telepathically?
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: What did he say they talked to him about?
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: So the elk.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Why are they interested in elk?
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: That's a good question.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Because they're cool? Elk are very cool. Pretty cool.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, they are. Now, that's an interesting point because there
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: are more hunters that are abducted or that disappear hunting
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: elk than any other animal. And it's not that there's
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: more hunters hunting elk. There's more hunters hunting deer on
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: the whole in the United States than But for some reason,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: there's more hunters that disappear hunting elk. And I've said
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: this in my books before.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Well, as a hunter, one thing that I would say
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: is that when you're hunting elk, you're in the backcountry
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: for the most part. You're in wild, remote areas with mountains.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: You're in a place with very few people. It's very
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: hard to get to them. Whereas deer hunting, a lot
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: of it is done on farms. A lot of it
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: is done on flatland areas. You know, a lot of
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: tree stand hunting. Deer, whitetail deer specifically in America, North America,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: are the most hunted animal. But if you've ever gone
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: whitetail hunting, a lot of it is in and around farmland.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: And you never, very rarely at least, you're hunting whitetail
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: deer in the mountains, remote mountain ranges. Mule deer, you
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: hunt mule deer in remote mountain ranges. But whitetail deer,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: they're they tend to populate around humans and around agriculture.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: So that kind of makes sense. If they want to
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: be stealthy, if they're trying to not be detected by
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: as many people, you would, you'd probably also, you probably,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: if you were going to abduct someone and be reasonably
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: sure that no one was going to see you do it,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: you would probably go where there's very few people and
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: just some random guy, who's decided to hike up to 10,000
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: feet and chase a herd of elk.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Another thing I've heard from Carl is that he was
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: told that these entities, whoever they are, have the ability
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: to freeze time and space. And remember what I said,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: the elk he was looking at, he said he shot
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: and they didn't move. It's like they were frozen. And
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: they were frozen in that same position when he got
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: on the craft. Time and space being that everything around him,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: nobody could walk in, nobody could walk out. It's like
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: the time and space that he and the entity and
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: the elk were in were frozen. It's a hard thing
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: to grasp, but I've heard this before.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: It is a hard thing to grasp, but the people
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: that speculate on how these advanced species, whatever they are,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: they're able to travel, that there's some sort of manipulation
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: of space-time. That it's not as simple as like what
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: we do, which is very crude. We do propulsion. We
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: burn things and push stuff out the back and it
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: makes stuff go forward. Or we have an internal combustion
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: engine that does the same thing. It makes explosions inside
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: the engine, burns things, pushes the pistons around, forces the transmission,
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: and it moves. What these things supposedly do– and again,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: this is all just crazy talk– but What they're able
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: to do is manipulate space-time itself and instantaneously travel from
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: one place to the next because they have a control
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: over the universe in a way that– with us, it's
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: like completely theoretical. Like there's this woman that speculates that
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: in the future someday with many, many, many advancements and
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: who knows how many years, we will be able to
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: travel quantumly. Like the way quantum particles are entangled. She
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: believes that perhaps the entire universe works that way and
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: that everything is connected and that this thing that we have,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: this idea that the distance between stars is far too
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: vast for a human to travel because you can't travel
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: past the speed of light. And if you did travel
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: past the speed of light, it would still take, you know,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: even if you went like two times the speed of light,
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: three times the speed of light, it would still take
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: thousands and thousands of years. to just get to the
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: closest planets outside of our solar system. And she thinks
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: that one day, perhaps, if not humans or whatever's coming
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: after humans, we'll be able to quantumly travel. And you
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: would imagine that would involve some sort of manipulation of
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: space and time that we can't quite understand. We're talking
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: about it like it's magic. But again, if you were
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: talking to someone from the 1400s about a cell phone, hey,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: I can FaceTime my friend in Australia. They'd go, what
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: the fuck are you talking about? Well, I pick out
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: this device in my pocket that's as thin as a
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: few slices of paper. And through that, I can like
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: stare at my friend and he can see me and
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: I can see him. Like that's magic. You're talking crazy talk.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: There's nothing, just no cord. There's no nothing. Somehow or another,
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: there's like, what are you sending that's being received? And
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: it comes into HD video with sound and it perfectly
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: lines up with the way the person's talking. You hear
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: it in real time.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: That doesn't even make sense. But yeah, we just are
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: so accustomed to it that it's normal. Oh, I'm getting
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: a FaceTime call from my friend. Oh, hey, what's up, buddy?
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: You know, we think it's normal. And then you got
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: to imagine if you could just push into the future
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: and imagine thousands of years of innovation in technology. Like
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: what does that look like? Communication used to be you
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: had to shout. Bob's over there 100 yards away. You
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: had to put your hands. We're going to the left.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Now you could just text him or you could call him.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: And the ability to communicate at vast distances– will one
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: day be very similar to the way we travel. We
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: can travel vast distances instantaneously.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Part of the entanglement idea that you talked about, what
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: if you're in Austin and I go back to Whitefish, Montana?
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: And what if we had the ability to think, hey, Joe,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: I forgot to tell you this when I was on
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: your show and I told you by my mind? Now,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: people would say, oh, that's stupid. That's ridiculous. But I've
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: talked to people that are way smarter than me that
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: say that part of this entanglement is, is that what
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: if you're in space and you're on the far side
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: of the moon? And what if we all have that
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: ability right now to affect others in other places? And
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: our thinking and our mind is really more powerful. And
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: we are this spider web of entanglement that we don't
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: quite understand right now. And let me, where this came
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: from is George Knapp been on a show like 30 times.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: He had a guy named Colm Kelleher, who was the
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: head of all investigations for Bigelow at Skinwalker Ranch. And
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: George said, hey, Dave, Kelleher wants you to come out
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: to Las Vegas. He thinks some of the work that
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: they're doing at the ranch right now overlaps with your
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: work on missing people. So I came out to Las
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Vegas three or four times, met with Kelleher. And we
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: talked about just what you're talking about right now, this
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: overlapping of understanding consciousness. Because it's much more complex than
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: some people are willing or even for us to understand.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: But what if what's happening on Earth right now, whether
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: it's abductions, cattle mutilations, UFOs, is really something that is
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: so beyond us. We try to think in rational terms. Well,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: they're taking us for our sperm or they're taking us
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: for our eggs. What if it's something a lot more
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: deep than really we could comprehend right now?
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Like what? I don't know.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: I'm asking you, Joe. But his point being that all
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: the time they spent almost 20 years at that ranch
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: investigating things. And he tells me about this one incident.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: And he says, I've got a physicist up on the
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: hill with another researcher. It's two o'clock in the morning.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: They're looking down at the meadow and they see this
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: bright light. And this bright light starts to get bigger.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: And if you could tell your guy, he could pick
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: it up right now on, if you go to Amazon,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: to the movie American Sasquatch, Man, Myth, or Legend, it's
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: my movie, we have it there. And it starts getting bigger.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: And one guy doesn't have night vision. The other guy does.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: And this round thing keeps getting bigger and bigger until
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: eventually it's like you're looking down a tube of And
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: he says, it's almost three-dimensional because you could see something
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: at the far end of the tube. And the physicists
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: just hand in the night vision back and they're sharing it. Eventually,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: the tube gets to be about this big that something
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: twice the size of you and I could crawl through.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: All of a sudden, they see something crawling down the tube.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: It crawls out. It jumps down onto the land. And
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: they see it's so dark, even with night vision, that
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: they could just see a silhouette. And it's bipedal, seven
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: or eight feet tall, all black in color.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Is this it?
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: No.
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't like it.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: I don't like what you're saying. Is that the documentary
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: you're talking about?
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: No, it's not mine.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Something different?
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: Sasquatch?
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: American Sasquatch.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Man-Myth or Monster?
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: Isn't that what you said?
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Is that it?
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: That's it, yeah. Okay.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: So this is your film?
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: That is the film, but that's not what I'm talking about.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Where is it in the film? Do you remember?
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: That's near the end, like three-quarters of the way through it.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: It's with my interview with Kelleher, and he's talking about it.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: And this thing, and then it walks away on two feet.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: And when we talk about this, he said, it doesn't
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: make any sense to us. You know, did we just
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: see a portal open up? and an entity from another
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: dimension crawl through into our dimension? And is that the
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: access point that they're using? And can they open this
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: at certain times and close it at certain times at will?
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: And really, that was the first time that I had
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: heard this from someone credible that this can happen. And
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: if you think about the people at the ranch today,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: they said, well, the amount of energy it takes to
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: open a portal so many times greater than an atom bomb,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: that it doesn't make sense that that could be the
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: answer to this. Well, maybe their answer to what a
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: portal is is different. But what these guys saw doesn't
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: make a lot of sense to us.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Well, the whole Bigfoot thing doesn't make a lot of sense.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: One of the reasons why the Bigfoot thing doesn't make
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of sense is that Native Americans don't have
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: a lot of mythological creatures. It's not like they have
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: a ton of Dragons and demons and pixies and wood sprites.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: There's not, but there's over a hundred. Didn't we look
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: this up? The, the, the, the name for Sasquatch. There's
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: like 50 different names that they have for this one
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: thing that they universally described as a bipedal hairy ape
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: like creature. That's eight to 10 feet tall. And, There's
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: so many sightings of this one thing. It's not like
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: people keep talking about different animals. Like I saw an
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: elephant that has six legs. No, it's always bipedal hominids.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: It's weird. It's a weird– because like I've never seen
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: compelling Bigfoot footage. It all looks bullshit. The Patterson footage
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: I think is nonsense. I think it's a guy in
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: a monkey suit for sure. I think most of what
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: you see in terms of like photographic evidence is nonsense.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: But there's too many stories. There's too many stories for
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: me to completely dismiss it. And I've always wondered if
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: it's some sort of an interdimensional experience and that this
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: thing may be the fact that it's in the woods
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: and that they happen under heightened– awareness because you're in
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: the woods and you're probably very nervous and freaked out.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: So you're probably in a very bizarre state of mind.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: And all of a sudden you encounter something that makes
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: zero sense. And the same thing gets encountered by people
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: over and over again. And you could write that off. Now,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: if you're a cynical person or a rational person, which
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: I'm neither one of those, you, you could, you could
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: write it off and you could say, well, there's an archetype.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: People have talked about this creature. For so long that
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: that's what you expect to see. So that's what you
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: make yourself see.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Maybe.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Maybe. Maybe it's a bear that walks on two legs.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Because we know they do that. Particularly black bears. They
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: walk on two legs all the time. I've seen them
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: walk on two legs. It's very weird. But they don't
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: describe it like a bear. They describe it like an ape.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: They say it has long arms. Like an ape. And
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: that it looks at you. And that these things... exist
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: in the forest, like deep in the forest where there's
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: no people. And then when people go out there, they
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: encounter them. And the story is just, it's like the
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: UFO abduction story. It's so similar. It's so similar over
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: and over again, like a very similar story. And you've
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: always got to separate the kooky stories because there's always
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: a bunch of crazy people that make things up. There's
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: a bunch of people that are probably on psychiatric drugs
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: or they're tripping balls on mushrooms or whatever it is.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: There's a bunch of people that see things that maybe
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: aren't there at all. But then there's enough of these
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: stories where you got to go, man, if just one
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: of these is true, one out of 100, and then
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: there's thousands of them. Like how– what is going on?
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: Not an ape. It's not a gorilla. If it was,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: we'd have it in the zoo and we don't. It
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: walks like a man. Ape and gorillas don't walk like
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: a man.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Well, Gigantopithecus did, right?
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: No.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: It didn't?
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: There's no evidence it was bipedal at all.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: I thought it was the jaw structure.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: So they have one piece of jaw and a bunch
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: of teeth. And there's a lot of theories behind that.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: But there's no evidence it was bipedal.
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: That's number one. Number two, there's no evidence it's ever
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: been in North America.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Right. But the sightings that they find of this thing
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: are in Alaska and the Pacific Northwest primarily. This is
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: where you get a lot of them. And the idea
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: would be that when the Bering Land Bridge was around
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: before the Ice Age or during the Ice Age, when
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: the ocean levels were much lower and there was more
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: land exposed. that these things could walk across Asia like
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: we know the short-faced bear did. And we also know
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: people made it from Siberia into North America.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: So let's just take Gigantopithecus. That wouldn't be an environment
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: it could live in though.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: That was a jungle animal. Right. Right in Asia.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: Correct. So let's get back to that.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: But before you go on, there's also Gigantopithecus, they found
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: less than 100 years ago. So these, I believe they
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: were anthropologists and they were searching for different bones in
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: an apothecary shop in China. And they found a molar
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: that was extraordinarily large, like way too large. And it
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: was a primate molar. And they were like, what is this?
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: And so they took them to where they found it.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: And then as they started digging, they found some more
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: bones and some different things. How much stuff have they
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: found of Gigantopithecus?
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: Only jaws and teeth.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: That's it. Now imagine if they never found that. Here's
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: the question. If they never found any of that stuff,
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: show me what they got.
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: It says what they have here.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: Okay. We only have jaws and teeth for Gigantopithecus, not pelvis,
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: leg bones, or full skeletons. So its exact gait can't
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: be observed directly. Researchers infer its posture and locomotion by
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: comparing its anatomy and evolutionary relationships with living great apes,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: especially orangutans, which are all quadrupedal and not habitual bipeds.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: So why do they think it's– okay. No, Gigantopithecus is
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: not thought to have been bipedal. Scientific consensus is that
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: it was a large, mostly quadrupedal ape. So why does
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: some people say it's bipedal? Where the idea came from? Okay,
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: a minority of researchers and many Bigfoot enthusiasts have proposed
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: a bipedal gigantopithecus, often linking it to Sasquatch, but those
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: arguments rely on speculative interpretations of jaw shape rather than
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: solid post-cranial fossils. These bipedal reconstructions are generally rejected by
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: specialists in fossil apes who regard them as highly unlikely
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: given current evidence. So Perplexity, our AI sponsor, says no.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Says Bigfoot's something different. But the thing is, if Gigantopithecus
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: was a real thing and all we have is a
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: tiny amount of fossilized bones and teeth, how many things
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: make fossils? Very few.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Very few.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: So there very well could have been a bipedal ape
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: like a human that was much larger. I mean, we
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: know at one point in time bipedal hominids, like, you know,
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: the early versions of human beings were very hairy and
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: some of them were larger than us. We just don't
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: have fossils because most things don't leave fossils. Like the
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: fossil record is incredibly incomplete, right?
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: So, you know, in East Texas, there's a lot of
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Bigfoot sightings.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: East Texas? East Texas.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by Visible. Ah, spring
• 52:29
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• 53:29
  Speaker 2: See visible.com for plan features and network management details. What
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: kind of terrain?
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Mushy, swampy.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: Wet.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right on the border.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: East Texas.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Tennessee.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: The border of what? Oklahoma?
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: No.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Down near the ocean.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: So when you talked about– you were talking about Alaska,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest, a lot of Bigfoot sightings. A lot of
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: Bigfoot sightings in Tennessee too, Kentucky.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: A lot of moonshine in Kentucky, Tennessee too.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: A lot of people smoking crank.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: Yes. So– After I was a policeman, I had a
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: master's degree. I worked technology for a while. I had
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: a master's in HR and I ran HR organizations. Did
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: that for five, six, seven years. I said I had
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: enough and I'm leaving. I had young kids. I was
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: going to leave with my family and have fun. Two
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: founders of this company, super rich, come to me and
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: they say, hey, Dave, we got a job for you.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: At your own space, at your own will. Here's the story.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: When they were younger, they didn't know each other. They
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: grew up in different parts. They went up into the
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: woods with their families, backpacking, camping, having fun. They get
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night, take a leak,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: and independently, didn't know each other, they saw a Bigfoot.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: They found each other. They formed this company, made millions
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: of dollars. One day they're at lunch, and they start
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: talking to each other, and they had the same experience.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: They said, wow, that's freaking bizarre. So let's get to
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: the bottom of it. So I'm leaving. They know I
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: have an investigative background. They said, hey, we're going to
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: hire you. We want you to go find out if
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: it's true, false, or a hoax.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: They hired you to go check to see if Bigfoot
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: was real?
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: Flipped the whole bill. They said, you can do it
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: at your own pace, own will, we'll pay for everything.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: I said, not interested. They came back to me like
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: four or five times. Finally, at the end of the year,
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: my wife is divorcing me. I now have only 50% custody.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: I have 50% of my life open to do whatever
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: I want. They came at me again. I said, okay,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: I'm going to shorten it down to from what took
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: five years to five minutes. Tennessee, Great Smoky Mountain National Park.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: There was a man there named Scott Carpenter. Scott, rest
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: his soul, has since died. But he took me into
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: an area in the park. And he said, Dave, this
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: is the part where I've had all kinds of evidence.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: What kind of evidence?
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Footprints. Hair.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Hair?
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: Hair.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: So has he ever had the hair analyzed? Okay.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: So we start talking about it. How can we get
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: a good sample of hair? So I said, you know,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: with Bayer, they take Bayer samples and DNA samples from
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Bayer all the time. Let's try this. Let's take some
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: packaging tape, wrap it inside out on the outside of
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: a tree. put something at the fork of the tree,
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: some kind of food, whatever, honey, something. If they lean
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: up against the tree, it's going to pull the hair out,
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: which we need the follicle for the DNA. Let's see
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: if that works. She says, Brian, we did it. It
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: worked in that area. We had tracks now, just so
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: you know, and everyone else knows there's hair and fiber
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: experts in the world and they testify in superior court
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: all the time. Uh, Like out in the lobby, you
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: have all these different kinds of animals. If we took
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: a hair from one animal and gave it to a
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: hair and fiber expert, he could tell you within two
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: minutes what animal that came from because every hair looks different.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: So we took those hairs, went to a hair and
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: fiber expert, and they said, well, where'd you get that?
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: And I go, what do you mean? We've never seen
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: that hair before. It's not classified. It doesn't exist.
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: Hmm.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Okay. So that means we're onto something. So then I took.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Does it have follicle? Can they do a DNA on
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: it or is it just hair?
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: They did. Okay. They did. So I called the... I
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: was living in California at the time. I called the
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: University of California, Davis, the biggest animal lab in the world.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: And they said, what do you got? And I explained,
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: they said, Bigfoot, we're not touching it. We don't want
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: anything to do with it. I went to University of Texas,
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: UC Davis. I went to like six or seven. No
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: one would touch it. But then I found a woman...
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: that testified in the courts here in Texas as a
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: DNA expert. I call her up. Her name is Melba Ketchum. Dr. Ketchum,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: I have this sample here. Would you be willing to
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: do DNA analysis on it? Absolutely. It's going to cost
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: you so many thousands of dollars. I go, no problem.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: We've got somebody who's going to pay. So she goes, okay,
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: let's do one better. Dave, send me the sample. Let
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: me look at it first. I'm going to give it
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: to my hair and fiber expert. They look at it.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: A hair and fiber expert says, it's nothing we've ever seen.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: So that's good. So she goes, okay, here's what we're
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: going to do. Can you get any more samples? I said,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: I have an idea. Let me try. So I go
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: on coast to coast. And I laid it out. I said, hey,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: we have these samples. We're looking for hair samples. Don't
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: bullshit us because we'll know right away. Send us hair
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: samples with everything attached. And we're going to send it
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: to a lab. You don't have to pay the bill.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: We got $ 125. valid samples that were not deer, antelope, bear, whatever.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: She goes through the DNA analysis on it. I think
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: it cost us $ 400, 000 at the end of the day.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: It's a lot less expensive now. And they all... So...
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: Hair will give you mitochondrial DNA from the maternal side,
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: but it won't give you fraternal DNA from the father's side.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: That you need nuclear DNA, blood, tissue, saliva. And we
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: got some of those. Son of a gun. At the
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: end of the day, the DNA comes back 12 to 15,000
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: years to the Middle East on the mother's side. Father's
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: side It doesn't exist in GenBank. 352 billion base pairs
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: of DNA does not exist. The father's DNA does not exist.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: GenBank says it's impossible. Since that time, other people have
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: come forward and said, hey, you know, on the elongated skulls,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: we've had the same problem. We can't find the fraternal
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: DNA just like you. That's a guy named L.A. Marzulli
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: that was doing the research there. And then Ron Moorhead,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: who's doing other DNA studies on elongated skulls in South America,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: said the same thing. That's odd, Dave. So the maternal,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: we understand. The fraternal, we don't. And the DNA, they
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: did a paper about it. It's online. Having a lot
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: of people say, oh, you know what? That's BS. It's
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: it's bad. But nobody else has ever done a test.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: And I could get you more hair within two weeks
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: if we wanted to. Nobody wants to test it.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: I'll test it. What do we have to do?
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: The truth is, the truth is, the truth is.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: Jamie, you ready to go? Let's go. Let's get some tape.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: The truth is.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: It'll all come back the same. And I believe that
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: the researchers who have done it, they've gotten the same results.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: And so if you say that it. On the fraternal side,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: it doesn't exist. On the maternal side, it's showing thousands.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: Explain that again. So like I'm Greek. So they could
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: chase my DNA backwards through time to, I don't know, Greece.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: 10, 15,000 years ago. Well, they were able to chase
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: the maternal side back to the Middle East 12,000 to 15,000 years.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: And what did they say it was?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: That's all they said. But what they're saying is, is that,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: and a lot of people have picked up on this,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: That has a lot of religious connotations to it.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: Why does it have religious connotations to it?
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Because of the Middle East 12,000 to 15,000 years.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Right. But why is that religious? It's a part of
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: the world 12,000 to 15,000 years ago. What gives it
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: religious connotations other than the fact that that's the origins
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: of a lot of religions?
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: Right, but it's also humans and different animals live there.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: Like there's probably deer down there that weren't religious at all.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: You know, their DNA tracks back to that too. Specific
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: results she reported. She claimed 111 samples from 34 North
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: American sites produced two patterns, human mtDNA and unusual or
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: novel nuclear sequences that supposedly did not match known animals.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: Her interpretation was that About 15,000 years ago, an unknown
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: hominin male population interbred with modern human females, leading to
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: a hybrid lineage whose descendants are today's supposed Sasquatch. How
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: and where it was published did not appear in a normal, established,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: peer-reviewed journal. Instead, it was put into an obscure outlet
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: called De Novo Scientific Journal, which Ketchum herself effectively controlled
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: to get the paper online. Science reporters and skeptics noted
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: the absence of transparent peer review, the paywall for self-published paper,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: and the lack of independent labs reproducing her findings. But
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: did independent labs try to reproduce her findings? That's the question.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Scientific criticism. Geneticists and forensic biologists who examined the data
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: and methodology have repeatedly pointed to contamination and poor lab practice.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: as the most likely explanation for her hybrid sequences. Analysis
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: noted that the mtDNA being 100% modern human is exactly
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: what you would expect from contaminated or human origin samples.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: and that the odd nuclear sequences are consistent with mixed DNA,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: sequencing errors, or low-quality data, not a new species. Current
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: status of her DNA claims. No major genetics lab or
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: independent research group has replicated Ketchum's results or confirmed a
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: novel hominin genome corresponding to Bigfoot. In mainstream science, her
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: study is treated as an example of flawed junk science,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: interesting to Bigfoot enthusiasts, but offering no accepted evidence that
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Sasquatch exists. But here's the thing. Did anybody else try
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: to test those things?
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: No. And let me explain. That argument they just used,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: they're talking to a bunch of idiots. So when they
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: say it's contaminated, so let's say I contaminated the sample. Right. Well, Joe,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: my dad was Russian. The contaminated sample would show on
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: the fraternal side, Russian. Right. It wouldn't show nothing.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: That's why that argument makes no sense.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm not a geneticist, so I don't know if
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: it makes sense. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: if you could say, oh, this is why, you know,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: if you had someone who understood DNA and contamination and
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: the whole process, they could maybe explain it in a
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: better way.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: So what.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: The idea that humans interbred with things is not a
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: new idea. I read something recently. I actually watched a
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: YouTube video and then read an article. I think we
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: talked about this. I'm pretty sure we did. Where they
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: believe that Neanderthal– they used to think that Neanderthal was
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: a subspecies, like a different version of humans and that
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: they interbred with us. There's a group of people that
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: now are speculating that Neanderthal was the result of humans
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: breeding with another ancient hominid and that that created Neanderthal.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: So it's not that we interbred with Neanderthal but that
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: humans actually created Neanderthal by breeding with this other hominid.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: So– There's only one country in the world that ever
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: took this topic seriously.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Which country?
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: Russia. They took their science academy and took the five
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: top scientists. This happened 40 years ago. And they started
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: studying what was called Almasty, the same as our Bigfoot. Okay.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: And I'm not bullshitting you. This is 100% true. Two
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: of their scientists came to the U.S. I met one
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: of them at a conference in Colorado. seven or eight
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: years ago. And I walk into the room and he's
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: holding both of my books as I walk in. And
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: he says, Dave, you're the only guy to tell the
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: truth out of everybody out here. What you're saying about
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: the DNA, what you're saying about the lineage is 100% fact.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: It's what we found. And we know that they aren't
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: any kind of ape or gorilla. It's a human hybrid
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: that people don't understand.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: So did the Russians think that it exists currently?
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: 100%.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: So how are they hiding?
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: How are they hiding? Yeah. So if you think about,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: we don't even have the ability to do something with
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: a DNA like they, like whatever this is.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: You mean making a hybrid?
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Okay. So something far greater than us has learned to
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: manipulate DNA. And if you think that Bigfoot is interdimensional,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: then wherever that came from probably makes a whole lot
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: more sense scientifically than something organically made here. And therein
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: lies the reason that we haven't found a body. It
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: can move in and out like it did through that
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: tube at Skinwalker Ranch. And there's footage in our movie
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: where Of what appears to be a Bigfoot evaporating into nothingness.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: What footage is this?
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: Filmed by Scott Carpenter.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: What is it called? What's the same one that we
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: were just talking about?
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: American Sasquatch.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: Can we see that footage? Where is that in the film?
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: It's during my interview with Scott.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: And so who took this footage?
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: Scott.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: And what year was this taken?
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: Sometime in the last 10 years. Okay.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: And it shows something evaporating like that. There's it looks
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: like a Bigfoot evaporating into nothing.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: What you see is something kind of like smokiness looking
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: down a trail. And then it slowly evolves to look
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: like something that you and I would call a Bigfoot.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: So what you're saying is that we're not dealing with
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: a standard biological organism. We're dealing with something that's probably
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: the product of some advanced species. And that they've created
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: this thing. And this thing has the ability... To move
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: in ways and appear and reappear in ways that don't
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: make any sense to us.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: Well, that would make sense if it was true. And again,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: putting that fucking tinfoil hat on tight right now. That
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: would make sense if you think about how many sightings
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: there are and that there are no bones and there's
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: no body. No one's found anything. There's nothing. There has
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: been footprints. The footprints are weird. So I'd like to
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: dismiss the footprints like, oh, come on. Somebody just like
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: made a fake footprint. The problem is there's dermal ridges
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: on these footprints. Some of them exhibit what's very similar
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: to fingerprints. And that's very strange. And these are going
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: back decades. So super hard to reproduce something like that.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: And someone you would have I mean, you'd have to
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: be a very, very advanced person. And have some sort
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: of incredible ability to manipulate material science just to be
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: able to create something that recreates a dermal ridge and
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: then use it and make footprints with it that are
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: similar to what like a creature would make. It was
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: very heavy moving to the ground and pressing down on
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: moist ground or mud and leaving footprints that have fingerprints
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: in it. It's weird because these are not– it's not
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: something like– I weigh like 205 pounds or something like that.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: Like it's not like that. It's like something that weighs
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: like 700 pounds, like deep into the ground. It's weird.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: Abnormally heavy.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, abnormally heavy, large feet. But again, no bones, no nothing.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: And the only DNA, it's like– it's disputed. But of
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: course people are going to dispute everything. No one is
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: going to look at it and go, this is definitely
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: not human. They're going to go, well, who did this?
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: How did she do it? Oh, this is a lab
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: that's like not doing it well and they're publishing in
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: some journal behind a paywall. This is nonsense. But then
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: you have to think, well, OK, but are any other
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: reputable labs– these reputable labs, are they interested in doing
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: this work? Have they done the work? Have they taken
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: the same stuff and done it through the exact same
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: process but not found the same results that she had
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: or is there no other studies? It seems like there's
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: no other legitimate studies of the same DNA.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: Dr. Ketchum took that DNA to four certified labs. One
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: of them was the University of Texas. And all of
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: those labs got the same result. She extracted it. They
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: did the analysis. She did the comparison at GenBank.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: And she did this all herself or she had other
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: scientists do it?
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: So she wrote a white paper and six different PhDs
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: wrote it. The slam job there, I think it's interesting
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: because have you heard of an organization called BFRO?
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: Biggest organization in the United States for Bigfoot sightings.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. Bigfoot Research Organization. Yeah. Yeah. From finding Bigfoot.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: Right. Right.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: So a man named Wally Hersham was their benefactor. He
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: gave them millions of dollars over the years. And they
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: had one job, find DNA.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: 10, 15 years, they said they couldn't find it. We
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: found it in less than a year. Wally came over
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: when we had the DNA and looked at the results,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: met with Dr. Ketchum, said, I am completely done. You
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: guys have proven to me exactly what it is. I
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: now know what it is. Pulled all of his funding
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: at that point. He was out of the Bigfoot world.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: And he goes, you guys did what nobody else could do.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: How come there's no good camera trap photos? You know,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: like there's a lot of trail cameras out there that
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: hunters use. How come there's no good trail cam photos?
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: Do you think the idea is that these things know
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: that cameras are there?
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: So I think they have that ability to look in
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: the infrared range and they just stay away.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: Well, if they are from somewhere else and, you know,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: we're assuming they're primitive because they're covered in hair. But
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: what if they have some sort of psychic ability or
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: some sort of intellect beyond what we would attach to
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: an ape and they understand what cameras are?
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: So do you know what the hitchhiker effect is?
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: So at Skinwalker Ranch, the investigators coming onto that ranch,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: when they left and they went home, they took those
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: entities home with them. And the entities didn't ever bother
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: the scientists. They bothered the relatives, the wives. They did
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: spooky things. They'd come around, show up in the home,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: chase the kids around in the yard.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: What kind of entities?
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: A variety of things. Sometimes orbs, sometimes silhouettes of people.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: But things that never happened before happened after the scientists
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: went home. And they talked about it on their show.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: And it's happened a lot. One of the things that
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: happens to people that study Bigfoot is they have the
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: same hitchhiker effect. It doesn't matter where you go. For
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: some reason, and you were talking about, you know, maybe
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: they read your mind or something. There's some kind of
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: effect there that they'll follow you wherever you go. As
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: an example, I live kind of in the middle of
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: nowhere and there's big woods behind my house. And I
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: was walking behind the house one day, one track, middle
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: of a muddy trail. No other tracks anyplace else. 17 inches.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: Just one track. I can't tell you how many times
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: other friends of mine and researchers have had the exact
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: same thing happen. In the movie, I interviewed, I think,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: seven or eight researchers, all the best ones. They all
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: say this has happened to them. It's that hitchhiker effect
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: that they talk about at Skinwalker Ranch, which goes to
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: the point of it being something extra-dimensional.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: I went to Skinwalker Ranch with my friend Duncan a
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: few years back. I was doing this show for the
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: Sci-Fi Channel called Joe Rogan Questions Everything and one of
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: the things we did was we went to Skinwalker Ranch
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: and we talked to a bunch of people there and
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: some of them were just clearly full of shit but
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: there was this one guy who was not and he
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: didn't have a lot of stories but he said there
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: was this one experience that he had where these orbs
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: made it into his house and this orb flew through
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: his wall, was inside of his home, and it seemed
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: like it was interacting with him. And then it was
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: like paused, frozen in front of him, and then took off.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: This guy seemed like a completely rational, regular guy. Like
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: I said, he didn't have a bunch of crazy stories
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: about other things. I forget what his job was, but
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: it was a regular job, regular guy. Seemed totally normal
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: to talk to. But he said he had this one
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: inexplicable experience. He said it was very strange. He said
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: this thing just flew into his home. He said it
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: was like– I think he said it was like the
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: size of a softball, maybe a little larger. And it
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: seemed like it was interacting with him.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: So one of the people I interviewed for the movie
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: was a former Navajo ranger. You ever hear of those?
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: So they went to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: full law enforcement credentials, super smart guy. He comes back.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: He works 10, 15 years for the Navajo Rangers. One day,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: the lieutenant calls him in, he and his partner. They say,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: you got a new assignment. Oh, what's that? You're going
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: to do nothing but investigate Bigfoot and UFOs.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: I'd be like, fuck, yeah.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: He goes, wait a minute.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: I don't want to.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: I didn't sign up for that. He goes, I don't care.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: That's your new job. Because you guys are the two
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: most credible people I have. You're going to go do that.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: Well, because why? They had some sort of a suspicion?
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: Well, they had tons of calls about Bigfoot being on
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: the property, UFOs showing up over property, all the above.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: And they wanted some expertise in that team. So he
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: and his friend start investigating Bigfoot. And all of the
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: things I've just told you happened to him and his
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: partner over those years. They'd get a call at a
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: lady's house that She just saw Bigfoot on her back porch.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: All the dogs are afraid. They're hiding under the porch.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: He goes there and he finds a track in a
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: straight line. One thing about Bigfoot, as you and I
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: would walk down a street, we walk staggeredly. Bigfoot walks
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: one foot right in front of the other. And that's
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: how you'll know it's real. It doesn't walk staggered like
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: you and I.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: It walks like it's doing a DUI checkpoint. Exactly.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: Yes. Like it's walking on a balance beam. And he
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: talked about the stride was four or five feet. He goes,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: I couldn't do it. And just like you were saying
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: that the track was so deep in the soil, they
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: couldn't match it. He said it had to have been hundreds.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: and hundreds of pounds. That's just one thing. But over
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: the years, they started to make this association between Bigfoot
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: and UFOs. They did this all on their own. And
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: then he talked about the Native American belief. Well, Native
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: Americans believe that they came from the stars. Each tribe does.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: And just like you said, all of the tribes have
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: a different name for these.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: But nobody, no tribe believes it's an animal.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: No tribe believes it's an animal.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: What do they think it is?
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: It's a human. It's an offshoot. There's a very.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: They think it came from the stars?
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: They came from the stars. There's a very, very famous
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: set of stories coming out of the Pacific Northwest out
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: of the 1920s and 30s where.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: A tribe of Native Americans hear that there's some people
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: walking down a trail through the woods. Bigfoot walks in
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: front of them, starts throwing rocks at them, doesn't hit them,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: throwing rocks at them. The people go home. They tell
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: the sheriff, hey, these huge hairy things are throwing rocks
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: at us. Sheriff says, oh, that's BS. We'll go out there.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: We'll kill them all. The tribe hears about this. In general,
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: it makes no sense. They have a press conference. Swear
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: as I'm talking to you. And three tribes in the
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest have a press conference, and it's in the
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: Oregonian newspaper on the front page. When I found it,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: I said, how come no other Bigfoot researchers ever talked
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: about this?
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: Because it doesn't support their belief system that it's an–
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: they think it's an ape or a gorilla. And here
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: are the tribes saying it's a tribe of people. We've
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: traded with them at times. What? They trade things with
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: us at times.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: What do they give you back?
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they will give them ornaments or certain kinds of
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: foods that they have a tough time getting, and they
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: will come back and they will give them certain kinds
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: of food, animals, etc. But in this story on the
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: front page of the Oregonian, they talk about this. And
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: when I've gone to the Pacific Northwest, and Joe, there's
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: not one tribe up there that believes they're an animal.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: None of them do. And they're the ones that have
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: lived with them and handed these stories down over the ages.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: And they all think that they come from somewhere else?
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: How do they think they got here? What's their, like,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: origin story?
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: So there's a man who owned a herd of cattle
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: and was wintering them on the Oregon-California border up north
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: of Crescent City. And every year he'd done this. This
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: one year, this is another article in the paper, this
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: one year, They winter with the Native Americans there. He
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: sees this Native American walking with a tray of food.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: Doesn't think much of it the first day. Second day,
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: he sees the guy walk up into the mountains up
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: to this cliff area. Guy comes back and he says, hey,
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: what's that for? He goes, I can't talk to you
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: about that. So he goes straight to the chief. He
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: owns all the cattle. He's working with the Native Americans.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: He goes to the chief. The chief goes, we've got
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: Harry Moon up there. Harry Moon. He goes, yeah, this
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: thing came and it comes every couple months. There's usually
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: two of them that come together. He goes, what do
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: you mean? He says, we see a moon come out
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: of the sky. It's very bright. It comes down near
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: the land. And these two jump out of the moon.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: And they're friendly. They get along with us. And they
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: stay there. And we feed them sometimes. So that was
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: in like 1885 newspaper magazine. And you think about that story,
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: how else would they describe an orb, say?
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: There's no other way to describe it back then.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: It comes down, these things jump out of it, and
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: they run into the woods. And the Native Americans have
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: been dealing with them for all these years. That's really
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: the story.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: Now, the rational part of me, of course, wants to
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: call bullshit, but The part that's willing to speculate, again,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: if so many people are having this very similar experience
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: with this tall, hairy, ape-like thing in the woods, you
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: got to wonder, like, why is it the same thing? Like,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: why is it over and over again? And why do
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: Native Americans have so many different names for this? And again,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: they don't have a bunch of mythical animals. It's not
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: like they have tons of these, like, weird things that
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: no one's ever seen before. Dragons and No. Just one thing.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: Well, they do have these things called little people. Have
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: you heard of those?
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: What are those?
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: That's very odd. Something that kind of looks like you
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: and me, but they're only about three feet tall. And
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: they look like miniature, kind of like dwarves.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: Well, people have those experiences when they do mushrooms. Do
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: you know that there's a specific mushroom that when you
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: take it, everyone sees little tiny people?
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is there was a recent article about this.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: You can find that, Jamie. There's one very specific type
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: of hallucinogenic mushroom where when you take it universally, everyone
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: experiences little tiny people like little like, you know, elves
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: from ancient stories. I mean, what do you think?
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: Why is that so common? Like, what is that? They
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: saw them on their dishes when eating the mushrooms that
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: make people hallucinate dozens of tiny humans. Now we're saying hallucinate,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: but we don't, if everyone's seeing the same exact vision,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: that's very strange. Every year, doctors at a hospital in
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: the Yunnan province of China brace themselves for an influx
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: of people with an unusual complaint. The patients come in
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: with strikingly odd symptoms. Visions of pint-sized elf-like figures marching
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: under doors, crawling up wells, and clinging to furniture. The
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: hospital treats hundreds of these cases every year. All share
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: a common culprit. I don't know how to say this.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: La Mao... La Mao... Azi... Asiatica? Asiatica?
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, Asiatica, duh. Lamao, whatever it is. L-A-N-M-A-O-A. Asiatica, a
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: type of mushroom that forms symbiotic relationships with the pine
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: trees in nearby forests and is locally popular food known
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: for its savory umami pack flavor. In Yunnan, L-Asiatica is
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: sold in markets. It appears on restaurant menus and is
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: served at home during peak mushroom season. Between June and August.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: One must be careful to cook it thoroughly, though. Otherwise,
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: the hallucinations will set in. Or, don't cook it at all, pussy.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: Come on.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: Don't you want to see the elves? Why would you
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: cook it? Outside of Yunnan and a couple other places,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: the strange mushroom is largely an enigma. There are many
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: accounts of the existence of this psychedelic mushroom and many
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: people who looked for it, but they never found the species,
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: says Juliana Ferchi, a mycologist and the founder and executive
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: of the Fungi Federation, a nonprofit group dedicated to discovering, documenting,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: and conserving fungi. Uh, This person, Dom Naur, is on
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: a quest to solve the decades-old mystery about this fungi
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: species and identify the unknown compound responsible for its unusually
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: similar hallucinations as well as what it can potentially teach
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: us about the human brain. You know, the thing is, like,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: is it teaching us something about the human brain or
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: is it allowing you to see something that's actually there
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: all the time? What's at the bottom of that? Lilliputian?
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 3: I was going to show you. Oh. When I typed
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: it into Perplexity, there's at least one type. The Choctaw
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 3: have something.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: It says, many indigenous nations have their own name for
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: little people. And the English phrase is just a loose
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: umbrella term. Each language has specific words. It usually means
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: something like little people, dwarves, or forest people. The Cherokee
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: have it. What's that word? Yunwe Sunsdai. Um, usually translated
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: as little people, Choctaw. Um, they have another crazy word, uh,
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: little people and forest dwelling type called Kaui Anukasha or
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: forest dweller. Chicksaw have them for little people, small supernatural beings. Yeah.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: There's so many of these things like.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 3: Medicinal plants, uh.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: Describes a little person who provides corn and medicinal plants. Well, many, many,
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: many people who have taken mushrooms see little tiny people,
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: see little elves. And in fact, you know, that is
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: a core part of the Santa Claus mystery. You know,
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: Santa Claus, have you ever seen the relationship between Santa
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: Claus and a mushroom called the Amanita muscaria? Do you
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: know that whole thing? Yeah. But one of the weird
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: things about Santa Claus is if you go back and
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: look at old Christmas art, like Christmas. art from the
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: turn of the century, all of it has Amanita muscaria
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: mushrooms in it and elves. It's very weird that you
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: would connect Christmas with elves and a known hallucinogenic mushroom.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: And that these little elves and these big mushrooms are
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: all together and it's Merry Christmas. See if you can
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: find some of those old– they're really weird. Because it's
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: like how did we forget that and how did that
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: go away? And there's also the way Santa Claus looks himself.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: Santa Claus with his red outfit, with his bright red outfit,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: with the white cuffs and the white buttons. The mushroom
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: itself is bright red with white spots on it. Like
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: look at these. Look how weird that is. Look, Santa
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: Claus with psychedelic mushrooms.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 3: Got to be careful a little bit now because we've
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 3: talked about it. Some of it has to have been created.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, 100%. We've fucked up the whole world.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: That's brand new.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: Is it brand new? That's not vintage. Look at that.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 3: That looks awesome.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: Are you sure?
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 3: I made it. Yeah, it's on Etsy.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, probably. But some of the old ones are real.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: The one in the middle is legit. That one's legit
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: right there that you just put up there. And that
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: one's from somewhere else. Look at that. How crazy is that?
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: I wrote an.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: Article for my website. Santa Claus was a mushroom a
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: long time ago about this. And I probably fucked up
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: the whole algorithm. But if you look at these images,
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: these are ancient images that the one that you had
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: up there with the foreign language on it, where it
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: says psychedelic. Yeah, that one. Like, how weird is that?
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: That these little elves are carrying these giant psychedelic mushrooms
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: with them. And they're walking off with it. And this
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: has to do with Christmas? How? Why does Christmas have
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: to do with psychedelic mushrooms? The question is, are these compounds,
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: are you hallucinating when you take these compounds? Or is
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: it opening up your vision to see things that are
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: there all the time anyway?
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: Good question.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: Right. And like how many people have gone and taken
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: mushrooms in the woods and seen Bigfoot? It's another question.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: Like how many people have taken psychedelic compounds that dissolve
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: the ego, completely put you in a different space in
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: terms of your head space, and then you're able to
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: see things perhaps that are there all the time anyway?
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: The Bigfoot one is so weird because I always want
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: to dismiss it. The rational part of me wants to go, oh,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: shut up. It's all nonsense. I go back and forth
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: with Bigfoot. And then the other part of me goes,
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: too many people. Too many people see the same thing.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: Too many people have had that. They can't all be
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: crazy or liars. They can't all be. And if they're not, then, like,
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: what is that thing? And why is there no dead body? Well,
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: maybe because it's not the same as we are. Maybe
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: it comes from somewhere else. And maybe that is the
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: whole experience, that the whole experience is weird and that
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: you really can't quantify it. You can't. talk about it
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: the same way you talk about like, oh, you know,
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: I know where a sloth lives. You know, it's like,
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: it's a different kind of a creature.
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: So I've been around some people that say they believe
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: that we're part of a simulation. And part of that
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: simulation is you get enough coins and you can drop
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: in a new entity in the game that can screw
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: with you.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: Oh boy. Yeah. You get the right mushrooms. You see
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: little people crawling up your chair.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: Or let's see how this guy handles a Bigfoot walking
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: in front of him.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: See how much his blood pressure goes up.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: Well, it's also whatever we're doing in this– as a
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: human being going through this life, you have a certain
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: understanding of what's real and what's not real and what
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: to expect and what not to expect based on– your
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: life experiences based on what everybody else is telling you
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: about the world around you. And you kind of categorized
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: everything into what's real and what you, what you're going
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: to experience walking through this world. But just what we
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: know about the material world is so bizarre. Just what
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: we know about subatomic particles, just what we know about
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: the very nature of matter itself. That's all energy condensed in,
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: in different weird ways. And that, Most of what atoms
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: are is empty space and that a particle, like subatomic particle,
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: can appear and disappear. We don't know where they're going.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: They can be both moving. They can be moving and
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: still at the same time. They can be in a
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: place of superposition. Like what are we talking about with
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: just reality itself? Reality itself, the lowest observable, the smallest,
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: the deepest we can look at it, it's fucking magic.
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: Like reality itself is magic. And then you have the
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: weirdness of the observer effect, that when you pay attention
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: to particles, they behave differently.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: And that there's some sort of research that shows that
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: somehow or another we can actually affect particles in the past.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: Like quantum physicists talk about this, not kooks like me,
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: but quantum physicists talk about There's some sort of evidence
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: that the observer effect can affect things in the past. Well,
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: how far in the past? If it's only a few seconds,
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: is it a millisecond? Is it limited to that or
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: is it not? Like is it the whole world flexible?
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: Is everything malleable? Is everything dependent upon consciousness? And then
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: what is consciousness? Is it simply what's in between your
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: ears or are you tuning in to consciousness? And it's
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: just the limitations of your radio that's making the world
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: around you shape into the form that you currently see.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: And maybe that is why when you add things to
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: that radio, like psychedelic mushrooms, like the ones that make
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: you see the little people or the ones that make
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: you see elves at Santa Claus. You know, I think
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: we get real arrogant when we talk about what reality is,
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: especially when we know from our understanding of reality that reality, again,
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: at its quantum state is essentially insane and impossible. It's magic.
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: A friend of mine the other day said, hey, Dave,
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: why don't you go with me? I'm going to go
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: do ayahuasca again. He's done it a few times. And
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: he says, Dave, it'll open up your mind to things
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: that you just don't understand that are real. And he goes,
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: I've done it a couple times. I've had replicant seeing
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: the same thing multiple, multiple times that I know I
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: could never see without it. Have you ever done it?
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: I have not done ayahuasca, but ayahuasca is the orally
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: active form of DMT, and I've done that.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Is your experience positive?
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never had a negative experience. But it is
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: very strange, and it feels more real than reality itself.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: And you are 100% communicating with creatures, some beings, things
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: that are– they appear to be living geometric patterns. I've
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: had multiple experiences with jesters, with things that look like
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: jesters where they're giving me the finger. And they were
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: basically telling me that I take myself too seriously. They
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: were like, fuck you. And then I was like, what?
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: And then I was like, oh, I get it. And
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: they're like, right. They were like telling me like, yeah, yeah,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: you take yourself too seriously. I was like, oh, you're right.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: You're right. Like, yeah, you have to be very careful
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: with the experience because if you're a control freak, if
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: you can't just let go, you can lose your marbles.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: You can really go crazy. And it's not really recommended
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: to anybody that has a slippery hold on reality already,
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: like people with psychiatric conditions and people that are already
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: kind of fucked up. But if you're reasonably stable and
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: you are calm and rational and you can just let go,
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: it is a wild experience. It's a wild experience that
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: should not be illegal and should probably be studied and understood.
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: What was the guy that we had on recently, Jamie?
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: The guy who was doing– Andrew Gallimore? How do you
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: say his name? Who was doing those– they're setting it
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: up on a country– Where it's legal and they're doing
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: IV DMT trips that last like five hours. And these people,
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: they go and they have this experience. And when they
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: do it, they all encounter similar places, similar beings, and
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: similar patterns. Like they come back with very similar stories.
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: Like they're making a map of the territory of whatever
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: this is that you're doing. And they all have the
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: exact same way of describing it, which is similar to
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: the way I described it before I ever heard of
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: any of this, is that it feels more real than
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: reality itself. Reality itself seems very dull and very mushy
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: and not crisp, if that's the way to say it.
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: Whereas the DMT experience is very vivid. The colors are
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: insanely bright. The experience that you get by encountering whatever
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: these creatures seems way more powerful than any kind of
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: experience that you have in normal everyday consciousness.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: So does that drug open some kind of door or
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: receiver or transmitter?
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: We call it a drug. But the problem with calling
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: it a drug is the human brain makes it. So
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: Terence McKenna had a great line. He said, if DMT
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: is a drug, everyone is holding. Because you got to
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: make something illegal that's produced by the human body. Like
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: we know for a fact it's produced in the brain.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: We know for a fact that the mind actually makes
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: this compound, which is the most potent psychedelic compound known
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: to man. It's very weird when the human mind, the
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: human brain rather, makes a psychedelic compound that's the most
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: potent compound known to man. Not just that, but it
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: exists in thousands of different plants. The problem is when
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: we eat them, it gets broken down in our gut
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: by monoamine oxidase. Like there's a bunch of different– like
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: phalaris grass is very rich in it. The acacia tree
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: is very rich in it. In fact, there's some scholars
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: from Jerusalem that believe that the story of Moses in
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: the burning bush was Moses burning the acacia bush, which
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: has DMT in it and experiencing God. which completely tracks.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: If you think about it, like this is what the
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: experience feels like. It feels like you're dealing with an
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: all powerful entity that's filled with love and understanding and
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: knows you better than you know yourself and gives you
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: guidelines on how to live life. And that Moses came
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: back from this experience with these commandments, how to live
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: life that we all agree today. We look at those commandments.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: Like these are very reasonable. Makes a lot of sense.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: So sometimes I'm sitting at my desk and I've got
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: my dog laying next to me. And the dog's looking
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: down the hallway at my kitchen. I've got a great
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: pair of knees. And she's just laying there looking. Then
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: like one every four or five days, she'll just jump
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: up at like 10 o'clock at night and start growling
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: at something down the hall.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: Little people.
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. She sees something we
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: don't see. So are they always there? Mm-hmm.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: It's a good question. And what can the animal see
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: that we can't? Because they definitely see things that we can't.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: They experience things. I mean their senses are so different
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: than ours. We just assume that we both live in
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: the same world, but we clearly don't. Dogs live in
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: a different world than us. The world that they experience
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: is rich with smells and sounds and they hear things
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: and they smell things that we couldn't even imagine what
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: they are. Yeah. The weird thing about DMT is that
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: someone– figured out in the Amazon thousands and thousands of
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: years ago, no one even knows when, how to make
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: this plant orally active. So what they did is they
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: took the leaves of one plant and the roots of
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: the other. So one of the plants contains dimethyltryptamine and
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: the other one contains haramine, which is an MAO inhibitor,
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: monoamine oxidase inhibitor. And this MAO inhibitor allows DMT to
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: be orally active. Whereas if you just ate that plant,
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: the monoamine oxidase in your gut would break the plant
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: down and you would never experience the DMT trip. Like how?
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: How did they figure out how to do that? And
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: you ask them, they tell them the plants told them
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: how to do it.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: Like what? But when you think about people that were
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: living in this incredibly rich life filled jungle for thousands
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: and thousands and thousands of years, And with no contact
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: with the Western world as we know it today, right?
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: So this is thousands of years ago. They're living in–
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: they have this subsistence lifestyle, living with animals and plants
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: and fish. And they probably are deeply in tuned with
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: the jungle and deeply in tuned with the wildlife and
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: the plants in a way that we can't even possibly understand.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: And that we've probably dulled all those senses or they've
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: atrophied to a point. where we just assume that everybody
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: sees the world the way we do. And I don't
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: think those people did or do.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: 100%.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: They all talk about experiences with entities from somewhere else too.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's a very weird world out there. And that's
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: why when someone tells a story about being abducted, by
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: a craft from another dimension. It's so easy to just
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: dismiss them. It's so easy to just throw it all away.
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: But I mean, look, I was watching Fox News yesterday
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: where they were talking about the different kinds of entities
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: that the United States government has encountered.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: Did you see that? I saw it. Have you seen it?
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: Did you see that shit, Jamie?
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 3: But I've been waiting to see it. I'll show you
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 3: this thing that was part of the movie. He shows
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 3: it on this.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: I have it on the screen.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 3: That's the box, if you will, the transparent box that Carl...
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 3: who we talked about earlier, was taken into.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, Jesus.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 3: Once he was in there.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: Hold this thought because I've got to pee. We'll come
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: right back and we'll talk about this box. I've got
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: to pee real bad. We're back.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: So we were at this portal thing.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 3: I was showing you this guy. So he had this transparent,
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 3: which I would say is like, you know, transparent cube.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: This is what he described?
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 3: Probably could have a sphere in it. Yes. So he
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 3: said he described that showing up. And... A six-foot-tall figure
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 3: came out and didn't tell him to come there, but
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 3: said telepathically, come with me. He got in it, and
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 3: there he saw his targeted elk frozen in beams of
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 3: light alongside five figures.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: Human-like figures that seemed more spectral than alive, stiff, unblinking,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: like passengers in stasis.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 3: And then the ship shifted gears. It took him 163,000
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 3: light years away and ended up on a tower on
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 3: an alien planet where they fixed all of his ailments.
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: A tower on an alien planet under a violet sky.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And then they said like, they're not, you're not suitable.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 3: They don't, we can't use you. Sorry.
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: Cause of his, cause he's got no jizz.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: And then he was.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 3: Found miles away. Sort of just like how, um, Travis
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 3: Wallace found. Whoa.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: Hypnosis sessions later revealed more, uh, What's his name? Auso? Iuso?
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 3: That's the, in quotes, alien. That would be the entity.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: Iuso-1. Okay.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: Kind, we're experimenting on humans and animals possibly for genetic
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: or dimensional purposes. Carl's truck was found miles away in
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: impassable terrain embedded in mud with him inside babbling about
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: lights and voices. In impassable terrain. Yeah.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 3: Whoa. So there's a bunch of, I'm not sure.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: So his truck was just placed in a place where
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: it couldn't get to.
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 3: There's a bunch of pictures that– I don't know if–
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 3: I'm imagining he drew some of these because in that
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 3: video– No, bro.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: Those are photos.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: He holds up this photo.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 3: So I think he drew this.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 3: So he's an older man and drew what he remembered.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 3: So a little bit of leeway.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, so he drew the one there and then someone
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: did an artist's recreation.
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 3: Oh, look at that weird– Like weird arm, like a
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 3: knife for an arm or something.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: So he said he thought that those were almost robotic.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, interesting. Well, that kind of makes sense, right? That
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: eventually being– this is the photos of the bullet. It
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: kind of makes sense that eventually we would realize like
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 2: why would we travel places where we could just make
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 2: like an artificial person to do it and report back
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 2: to us everything. Why risk a human's life?
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 3: Which is what we're about to do. That's what Elon
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 3: is doing.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: To the moon.
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 3: He's going to send the robots up to make the
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 3: stuff on the moon way easier than sending people.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 3: They don't need air.
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: That makes sense why he's canceling the Model S and
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: the X.
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 3: Get to work.
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, get those Optimus robots because he's transformed some of
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: his factories. They've stopped the Model S and the Model X,
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: and they're using it to make these Optimus robots instead,
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: that factory. And then these robots are going to fly
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: to the moon.
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 3: So if we had that idea, no one else, like,
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 3: No one else has had that same thing.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: It makes sense. So he got a sense that this
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: was a robot?
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: A lot of people have also said that about the greys,
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: that they get the sense that they're not really an
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 2: actual physical, like, or a biological organism, that there's some
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: sort of a hybrid thing or some sort of a whatever.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: The thing that got me about that is that if
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: it was robotic, but it still has the ability to
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: mind speak?
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: That is really advanced.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean we have to figure out what
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: consciousness is, right, and what communication is. And if there's
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: something you could tune– you could have a robot that
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 2: could speak out loud. So why can't you have a
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 2: robot that transmits? Why couldn't– I mean with sufficient enough technology,
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 2: it kind of makes sense. You would have something that
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: has the ability to transmit into your mind. So do
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: you think when you're studying all these different people missing
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: and like do you try to put a percentage on
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 2: how many of these people you think just got eaten
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: by bears and how many of these people you think
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: are having these kind of experiences?
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: So if there's any evidence of animal predation, I don't
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: even work with them. I just push them out.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: Won't even look at the case.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 2: You're only looking at the cases that are super weird.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: That fit that. No animals can track. Canines can't track.
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 3: Right. Right.
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: They bring in a professional tracker. They can't track. There's
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: a weather issue in relationship to the disappearance. Sometimes the
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: people are found next to water or amongst a boulder field.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: There's another one, Joe. Boulder fields. Now, if you think
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: about where's the most boulders and granite, it's Yosemite Valley.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: And what goes through the middle of Yosemite Valley? Water,
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: the Merced River. And that area specifically, that's a hard
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: valley to get lost in. But yet, how do these
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: people get lost? And we're not talking about people going
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: into the backcountry. We're talking about people getting lost in
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: Yosemite Valley that disappear and aren't found. And there's a
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: couple of cases, probably 10 cases that are just absolutely bizarre.
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: There's a case that was investigated by Yosemite investigators back
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: 40 years ago as a woman came out and they
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: found her body so far away from a cliff that
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: they said she, their words, she was launched. So it's
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: like if you jumped or you fell, you could only
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: go so far from the cliff.
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: She was found too far from the cliff. And they
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: called it launched, but they couldn't understand how she got
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: that far.
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: Not possible with a gust of wind?
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: How far was she? That was their wording.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: That she had to have been launched. Right.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: And Norm, I've never seen that wording before in any
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: park service report. They're usually very conservative in the way
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: they discuss things.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: And so this aligns with this idea that they get dropped. Correct.
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: That's very disturbing that aliens would do that to us,
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 2: just drop us. Like I would think that if they're
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: going to abduct you, hey, place me back in my bed.
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: Be nice.
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: So pay attention when the next time you see a
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: story about somebody being abducted, a lot of times they're
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: dropped in their bed. They're not placed. They're dropped. Yeah.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: How many of these people that go missing like this
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: under weird circumstances die versus just disappear forever?
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: I would say that it's probably 40 percent, 50 percent
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: are never found. I would say that maybe half of
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: that half that's left, 25, 25 split between alive and dead.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: But you find out a lot more about the case
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: if you get the body back. Because the body sometimes
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: will show things that doesn't make any sense at all.
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: A lot of times the person will disappear and it's
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: an 80 degree day. We talk about that point of separation.
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: You go on this way, I'm going to the right.
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: And a hundred yards from where I last saw you,
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: there's a pile of clothes there. And you're thinking, well,
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: it's 80 degrees out. Why is there a pile of clothes?
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: His underwear, his socks, his shoes, everything. Pile right there.
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: He's never found. Where'd he go? Why would he take
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: all of his clothes off? People would say, well, it's
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: hypothermia and there's a condition where you take all your
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: clothes off.
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: Not in 80-degree weather.
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: Not in 80-degree weather. Not that fast. It doesn't happen.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: And so missing clothing, missing shoes are part of this
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: that don't make any sense. If you're in the woods,
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: you're on a trail, you're not going to take your
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: shoes off.
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: It's all very weird. Does anybody ever– Have an experience
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 2: where they go and they get abducted and then they
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 2: ask what happens to some of these people? How many
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: people do you do this to?
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: It must have happened, but I don't know if they've
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: ever gotten a response from it.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: Has anybody ever asked how many people do you abduct?
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: How many people have you taken like this?
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: I'm sure they've asked, but I'm not sure that they
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: would have gotten an answer.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 3: Huh.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: And then you know that there's a theory out there
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: that there's more than one type or one group taking people.
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, this is the Fox News thing. See if
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: you could find that Fox News report because it's kind
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 2: of wacky. Because watching it on Fox News, you're like,
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 2: is Fox News all of a sudden coast to coast
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: with Art Bell? Like what the hell has happened? Because
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: they were talking about the reptilians and the Nordics, the greys.
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: Fox News.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: TV.
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: Like regular TV.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 4: TV.
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: Like what is going on here? Is that nonsense? Are
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: they being fed nonsense or is this disclosure? And are
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: they slow trickling this out to us to get regular
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: folks like boomers, get them accustomed to this idea of
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: there are entities out there?
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: What if they're just acclimating you to the reality of
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: our world? And what if the truth is, is that
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: there's people around you that are aliens and you don't
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: even know it.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: I think Elon's a fucking alien. That's the only thing
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: that makes sense. I think I met a few aliens, definitely.
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: Joey Diaz might be an alien. There's a few people
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: that I've met that I'm like, you're not real. There's
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: no way you're real. But Elon's the top of my list.
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 2: He doesn't even make sense. I've met a lot of
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: people that are smarter than me. I'm not the smartest guy.
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: But there's only a few people that I've met I'm like, okay,
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 2: we're not even the same thing. Okay, let's hear this.
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: This is with Dan from Age of Disclosure.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 4: People I interviewed in my film, senior intelligence officials, went
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 4: on the record saying that there have been dozens of
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 4: crashed craft of non-human origin over the years, and elements
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 4: of our government have recovered those crashes. And they've gotten
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 4: out of that technology of non-human origin and, in some cases,
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 4: non-human bodies that were on these craft. A number of
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 4: people in my film go on the record saying that
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 4: the bodies were not all the same type, meaning there
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 4: were multiple species.
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: Were the bodies alive or were they dead?
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 4: The people in my film talked about events where they
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 4: were dead bodies, they were deceased bodies.
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: OK.
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 3: And there's a lot of speculation about the amount of
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 3: UFO information we've been given on this first tranche.
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: We expected more. We know there is more.
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: I've never used that word before.
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 3: Tranche.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: Have you ever used that word?
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 4: So the president gave his directive in middle of February.
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 4: Essentially instructing all federal agencies to declassify evidence of non-human
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 4: intelligent life and UAP. What happened after that is the
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 4: White House had to go get that evidence out of
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 4: the hands of all these federal agencies. And they all,
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 4: for the most part, pushed back. The people who have
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 4: gatekept this information for 80 years, they don't want to
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 4: share it. They've gotten a lot of power and control back.
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 3: Over the years.
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 4: And it's just frankly not human nature for people to
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 4: want to give up power and control. So there's a
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 4: tug of war happening behind the scenes. There are a
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 4: number of other reasons guiding their desire to keep this secret,
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 4: including a general belief that the public can't handle the truth.
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 4: I would argue the public can't handle the truth. I
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 4: think my film shows that. People aren't watching it and
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 4: jumping out of windows.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 3: They're curious and they want to learn more.
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: There's also a.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 4: General feeling that— a concern that They can't tell the American
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 4: public what they know and don't know without also telling
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 4: our adversaries and giving them some sort of advantage. But
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 4: I think that that's– Is that good?
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good. Go back to that one weird one
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: in the beginning, the black and white one that looked
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: like a star. That looked like– That's been debunked I think.
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 2: Is it?
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, how dare they? That one?
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: That's debunked?
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 2: But this is one of the more recent ones that
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: was released in this immense dump of information. How has
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: it been debunked? I'm going to debunk the debunkers. Fuck off.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: That thing's awesome. I want that thing to be real. Yeah,
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: that's Dan Farah from Age of Disclosure, which if you
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: haven't seen it, folks, amazing documentary, very interesting. You know,
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: it's a bunch of different people that have inside information
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 2: that are talking about it. And here they're just debunking it.
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: The eight-pointed star refers to a declassified 2013 infrared military
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 2: video released as part of the government UFO files. The
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: footage was widely debated online and linked to alien or
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: biblical origins. However, experts debunked the phenomenon, explaining it is
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: simply a distortion caused by a hot jet engine's exhaust
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: plume hitting a military infrared camera.
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: Allegedly.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 2: I prefer to believe that it's something else. I don't know.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: Let me add another twist to this missing person thing
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: for you.
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, please.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: So it's more of an evolution for me learning what
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: could be happening in those woods. And I started off
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: in national parks. And the most recent thing I've done,
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: Missing 411 National Parks, Washington State, there's a case where
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: a guy in 2006 disappeared in Olympic National Park. He
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: was a former Army intelligence officer. He worked in Israel.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: He worked in Africa. He worked in a lot of
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: different places, spoke six languages. And then he started to
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: work in campaigns. And he worked for a woman who
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: was campaigning to be a congresswoman in Washington state. She lost.
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: She became the head of retirement services in the state
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: of Washington. She brought him along as the assistant. His
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: name is Gilbert Gilman. When I wrote the story up
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: for my books, He was supposed to show up at
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: this meeting for her on a Sunday. He stopped off
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: at Olympic National Park, parked his car, was playing the
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: music loud. A ranger come by, asked him to turn
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: it down. He turned it down. He got out and
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: he walked into the woods. He never came back. Huge search.
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 1: He's never found. That's all I really knew. And I
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 1: wrote it up like that. Canines couldn't follow his track.
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: It disappeared. Blah, blah, blah. Then I interview. We set
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 1: up doing this thing for the movie, interviewing his relatives.
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: And I interview his girlfriend. And his girlfriend said she
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: saw him a month beforehand. And she said, a week
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: before he disappeared, he was trying to call me like
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 1: he wanted to tell me something. And I was busy
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: and I couldn't talk to him. And I knew he
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 1: wanted to tell me something, but then I put it up.
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: So something was wrong. I never got to talk to
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: him again. So I start talking to her about his past.
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: And I said, well, did he ever work for the CIA?
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: And Joe, she goes, I don't know if I can
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 1: talk about that. I said, well, why can't you talk
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: about that? Well, I don't know. I don't think I can.
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: That means yes.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: Exactly. So she gets emotional. She's upset. She can't see him.
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 1: And then we go into the next room, interview his mom.
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: And his mom says, well, Dave, a lot of people
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: don't know this, that before he disappeared, I have a
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: penthouse in Chicago. This woman's really wealthy. And Gilbert has
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 1: a bedroom there. And he asked me to stack a
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: couple books on his nightstand. And he wrote something on
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: a yellow pad on my coffee table in Arabic. And
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: I said, how long was that sitting there? And she goes, well,
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 1: I went one week and he disappeared. I never got
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: to really look at it. And then I flew to Washington.
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: So I don't know what he wrote. So Joe, here's
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: the kicker. I said, well, that's pretty strange. And she goes, no, Dave,
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 1: what's really strange is I'm in Washington and we're doing
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: this search for Gilbert. And the people who run my townhouse,
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: my condominium, she lives like on the 30th floor, call
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: me and said, two FBI agents were just here. And
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: they said they needed to get into your townhouse. And
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: I gave them the keys and they went into your
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: townhouse and took some things. I said, Mrs. Gilman, they
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: can't do that. I don't care what they say. They
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: need a search warrant to go in your house. He
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: can't give permission. What was taken? Well, I went back,
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: the yellow pad was gone and a couple of his
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: personal things were gone. So I said, this doesn't make
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: any sense. Why would the FBI go into your house
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: to retrieve anything of Gilbert's if this is a missing
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: person case and he has no relationship to the government?
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 1: And she goes, well, Dave, you're asking what I've been
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: thinking all along. Now, this happened 15 years before I
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: interviewed her. She's sharp as a tack, girlfriend sharp as
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: a tack. And she says, things haven't seemed right. And
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: she said, I think he's alive somewhere. So as she's
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: saying all this, my mind's racing and I'm thinking, how
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: many other people have disappeared in a national park under
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: circumstances that I just heard from a girlfriend and the mom,
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: but I don't know about them because I haven't been
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 1: able to interview their girlfriends and their moms. And why
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: wouldn't the park service give me the information on the
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: report if it was a straight missing person case like this?
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 1: They would. So really, is there something more nefarious going
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: on in the parks about taking people That they're in
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: conjunction with some other body, some other three-letter agency to
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: make people go away.
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 2: So they're doing this on purpose with people that have
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 2: information that's inconvenient or that's top secret. They don't want
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 2: it being leaked somehow.
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 1: I had the feeling Gilbert knew. I think it was
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: all planned.
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: He knew that they were going to take him?
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think he agreed to go.
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 2: Why do you think that?
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 1: Because he left that pad with the writing in Arabic.
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 2: Did he speak Arabic?
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: He spoke six languages.
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 2: And we don't know what he wrote down in Arabic.
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 3: No.
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: And she also said a peculiar thing. I'm sorry, I
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: don't remember the books. But he asked her to get
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: two books and put on the counter. And she thought
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: that that was a clue to what happened. Dante's Inferno
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: might have been one of them. And I forgot the
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: other book. But she said, Dave, I think that's a clue.
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: I just don't understand what he was trying to say.
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 3: Huh.
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: But that's also not the first time something like this
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: has happened where somebody disappeared and it was all pointing
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: to the government. In the 1950s, there was a man
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: that was going to Miami University. He played in their band.
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 1: He was a wrestler for the varsity wrestling team. He
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: was an all-around guy. One night, he comes home to
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 1: his dorm, and strangely, there's a fish in his bed.
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: And he asks the RA for new sheets. She brings
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 1: in new sheets. He gets them changed. Make a long
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: story short, he disappears right after that, that night. So
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: it's like, that's the message that you're going to go
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: that night or something? I don't know. So everything just
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: looks like the guy disappeared from college. Except five months later,
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: the head of housing for Miami, Ohio, is at a
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: city 10 miles north of the Pennsylvania border in New York,
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: a little tiny city. He and his wife are having
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: dinner at a bed and breakfast. And sitting across from him,
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: 10 feet away, are three men at a table. And
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: he says, I'm telling you, that was Ron Tammen. That's
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 1: the guy's name. And he's talking to the wife and
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 1: they keep looking at each other. So they go out
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: to the parking lot and he tells his wife, I've
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: got to go back in. Ron's disappeared. I've got to
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: go talk to him. So he goes back in and
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 1: all three of the guys are gone, all dressed in suits.
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: That was another indicator that the government had something to
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: do with the disappearance. Now, Ron's family lived in L.A.
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: They never saw Ron again, never heard from him again.
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 2: What do you think they're doing? Like, why would they
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 2: do that?
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 1: Well, the question I and I've talked to my team
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: about this. Why would the government need you to separate
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: yourself from the family under unusual circumstances? What would be
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 1: that point? I don't understand. If you wanted to go
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 1: to work for government services, why wouldn't you just do it?
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 3: Story about. Fish in Ron's bed on RonaldTamman.com. Is this
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 3: the right guy?
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's him.
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 3: It says this was a prank. Someone confessed it to
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 3: him in 2010.
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 2: The fish was a prank.
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 3: That's what it says. In 2010 he confessed to me
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 3: the culprit behind the fish prank.
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 2: Okay. But still the guy disappeared. Think of it this way.
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 2: In these emotionally charged and divisive times when no one
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 2: seems to agree on much of anything, I present to
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 2: you the one shining example of a core belief with
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 2: With which all of humanity can surely agree, at that
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 2: time honored value is this. No one in his or
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 2: her right mind would ever knowingly sleep with a dead
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 2: fish in their bed. Depends on how tired you are.
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 2: This doesn't make any sense to me. So when these
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 2: guys just disappear, like you think that he knew he
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 2: was going to be taken?
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: Ron, I don't know.
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 2: You don't know. But the other guy that went into
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 2: the woods, you think he knew?
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: I think Gilbert knew.
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 2: And how do you think he was taken?
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 1: That's a good question. I don't know.
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 3: He might be a victim of a serial killer that
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 3: someone else investigated on a TV show 10, 12 years ago.
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: That's completely BS.
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 2: Why do you think that?
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 1: If a serial killer killed him in the middle of
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 1: the woods, they would have found his body.
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 3: Hmm. The guy said that he put at least... One,
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 3: maybe up to eight bodies, 100 feet at the bottom
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 3: of the lake. Oh. Maybe. He admitted to at least
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 3: eight slayings before he died at age 34. Oh. Didn't
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 3: say he killed this guy, but.
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 2: But he killed him in that area? Yeah.
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 2: Well, that's possible. That would be why they didn't find
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: the body.
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 1: They should have found tracks to a kill site. They
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 1: would have found evidence.
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 2: Right. They would have probably found some blood.
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: And remember, they were on that from the day he disappeared.
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 2: And they had dogs.
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 2: They would have found blood.
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 2: Unless they strangled him.
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: Well, even if they would have strangled him, there would
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 1: have been so many people in that area, that guy
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: would have been saved.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 3: At least. Really?
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 2: How– was this like wooded? You're talking about a lake?
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 2: Are you sure they'd been seen?
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 1: It was a small parking lot, not a big area.
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: This isn't like a real big parking lot, a real
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 1: big tourist attraction.
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 2: But if this guy had done this to a bunch
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 2: of people, for sure.
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: Not right there.
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 4: No?
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 3: No.
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 4: No.
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 2: Okay. The guy who disappeared and went to the woods
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 2: and you think that guy, what was his name again?
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 1: Ron Tammen?
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 2: No, the other guy. The guy that disappeared and went
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 2: to the woods.
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 1: Gilbert Gilman?
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 2: When that guy disappeared, which is Gilbert? This is the
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 2: serial killer one. Okay. The guy that you said parked
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 2: his car and went to the woods and you think
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: that he knew that he was going to be taken.
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 2: What do you think happened to him when he went
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 2: to the woods?
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: I think somehow they had some extraction method and who
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: knows what that is. He was wearing Bermuda shorts, flip-flops.
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: He wasn't somebody that was going for a hike. That
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: was the other indicator. He was wearing like a Hawaiian shirt.
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 1: Even the ranger said she thought that him playing the
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 1: loud music– Was a signal? That was a signal for
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: her to come over and acknowledge that he was there.
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 3: OK.
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 2: So he planned his disappearance maybe.
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: Or he wanted her to see her there. See him there.
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 1: That was the indicator.
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 2: Do you ever wonder, like, if you're losing your marbles
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 2: studying all these different things? You know what I mean? Like,
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 2: you're going over so many different cases and so many
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 2: kooky circumstances and different people disappearing that your whole perspective
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 2: on this stuff gets a little weird?
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 1: I would say so, except I wrote this up as
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 1: just a standard everyday missing person case. These weren't my beliefs.
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: That's These were the beliefs of the girlfriend and the mom.
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: And I have to say that the FBI going to
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 1: that house is completely outside the realm of anything normal.
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very bizarre. And also taking the legal pad
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 2: with the Arabic writing on it and the books.
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 2: It's very weird. But, I mean, who knows what that's
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 2: all about? That seems to have something to do with
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 2: the government, whereas some of these things seem to have
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 2: something to do with either extraterrestrials or interdimensional things.
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 2: A lot of weirdness in this.
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 1: World, David. I think our world is much more complex
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 1: than we think.
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with you.
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 1: Just like humanity. Everyone's– there's a lot of complex people.
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 1: For sure.
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 2: Well, certainly the people that have access to this information,
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 2: like the stuff that Dan Farah was talking about. Like
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 2: imagine the mind of a person. Let's assume that there
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 2: are really extraterrestrial bodies somewhere. that there are recovered crafts,
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 2: and that these people like Bob Lazar really have been
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 2: back engineering. Don't you imagine being one of those people,
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 2: one of this select group of people, a small amount
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 2: that have information that's completely different from what the rest
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 2: of the world has about the reality in which we
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 2: exist in, that we share this reality with things that
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 2: have technology that is beyond our comprehension. They can do
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 2: things that We can't even imagine. And that these people
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 2: all know it's real and that they're holding on to
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 2: this information. They don't think we can handle it.
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, the radio shows I've been on and the
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 1: people I've talked to have said the same thing about
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: me and missing people. It's been a revelation that this
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 1: many people are missing in our woods that are unaccounted for.
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 1: And our government won't acknowledge it. Acknowledging it by releasing
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 1: a list, releasing the documents. Why can't we see him?
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 2: But you could attribute that to sheer incompetence, like the
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 2: people that are running the parks and working for like,
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 2: you know, you get bad investigators in all sorts of.
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're a cop. You know about all that.
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 2: What's going on with this guy?
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 3: From two years ago, Gil's mother thinks he might have
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 3: disappeared to be a spy for the U.S. government and
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 3: is still alive. And their authorities say that's possible.
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 1: What?
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 3: He had a long history. He said he was an
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 3: interrogator and knew six different languages. He worked for the UN.
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 3: It said when he went missing, he had survival skills
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 3: from his military training. He was a paratrooper. Huh. And
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 3: he had a camera on him was apparently all he had.
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 2: So they could have staged his disappearance so that they
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 2: could position him somewhere else. People would think he's dead.
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 2: You give him a totally new identity. Now he's working
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 2: undercover somewhere.
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I would imagine that's possible. I would imagine like
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 2: if you wanted someone to work for you and you say,
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 2: you know, this person is going to work undercover in
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 2: some top secret mission. OK, but you've got to disappear.
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 2: You got to disappear from regular life so that we
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 2: can give you this new identity. We can't just have,
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 2: you know, your friends looking for you. We have to
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 2: move you to some of the new part.
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 1: Of the world. So, Joe, if you were me and
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 1: you were sitting across from his mom, that's really something vile,
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: I think, to do to your parent.
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. Horrific.
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 1: She was a broken human. Yeah.
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 2: No, that's terrible.
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 1: And I asked her, I said, there's a good chance
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 1: Gilbert's somewhere in the world watching this. What do you
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 1: want to say to him? She said, Gilbert, just please
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 1: come home. She was like an 88-year-old woman then.
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, boy.
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 1: No, that's brutal.
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 2: Well, that's a very different thing we're talking about. That's
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 2: not a fun thing.
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 3: No.
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 2: The fun things, the alien stuff.
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 2: That's the fun stuff.
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I got off track there.
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 2: No, but I mean, look, I get it because you're
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: dealing with like a wide swath, like a bunch of
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 2: different kinds of encounters and different things. You know, those, yeah,
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 2: that's dark.
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 1: So do you know much about Mount Rainier?
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 2: Not much, no.
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 1: So do you know that the original UFO period of
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 1: time started with a UFO sighting?
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 2: Kenneth Arnold.
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 1: So do you know that when Arnold, do you know
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 1: what Arnold was doing when he was flying around?
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 3: No.
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 1: So six months prior to that, three transports, marine transports
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 1: were flying from El Toro Marine Base into Seattle. Boom,
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 1: one after the other. They hit bad weather. One of
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 1: those planes came around and they lost it. Arnold, there
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 1: was like a huge reward if you could find it.
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 1: Arnold was flying by Rainier looking at the mountain trying
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 1: to see if he could find it, and these things
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 1: went by. Long story short, months later, they found the
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 1: transport had crashed into the side of Rainier. First of all,
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 1: do you know that the Marines never took one body
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 1: off of there?
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 2: Did they recover the vehicle, the craft?
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 3: No.
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 2: No.
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 1: They didn't recover anything.
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 2: They just left it there?
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 1: They left it there.
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 2: Was it because the extraction is too difficult?
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 1: That's what they said.
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 2: Isn't that possible?
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 1: I guess so.
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, if it's not traversable, if they can't get
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 2: in there.
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 1: But they did get in there.
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 2: They did.
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 1: They did. They said they got in there. They saw bodies,
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 1: but it was too dangerous to remove any, and they
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 1: left them all on the side of the mountain. So
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 1: that's the reason that Arnold was there. A lot of
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 1: people don't know that.
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 1: And when he saw those things fly by him at
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 1: an extraordinary pace— He said, hey, that's nothing that no
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 1: planes we have. And there were multiple ones he saw
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 1: go by. Now, since that time, Mount Baker and Mount
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 1: Rainier have had dozens of UFO sightings. And if you
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 1: look at the dispersion of people who have disappeared on Rainier,
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 1: most of them aren't way up here on the mountain.
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 1: They're down here at the bottom. And when we put
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 1: that in the movie, they People couldn't believe how many
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 1: people there are missing.
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 2: How many people?
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 1: There's probably at least 15 that have never been found.
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 1: And it makes no sense.
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: And are they all hikers or what?
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 1: Hikers, photographers. One kid worked for Alaska Airlines, went into
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 1: the woods like every week because he lived near Rainier.
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 1: And on his days off, he took pictures of the
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 1: mountain and panorama shots. And some of his photos actually
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 1: made it into the National Park headquarters. They're that good.
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 1: He went up to take pictures one day. He has
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 1: a tripod, real nice camera. He disappears. They search for
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 1: him for 10 days, bring in canines, everything. They can't
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 1: find anything of him. Now, this is one of those
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: cases where let's say there was bear predation. Yeah, there
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 1: may be nothing left of him, but the tripod will
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 1: be there forever. The camera is there forever, his boots,
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: his belt. But they never found anything. There was a
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 1: medical doctor that disappeared just recently within the last couple
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 1: of years, hiking in that same area, a giant loop backpacking.
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 1: I think he was 34 years old. Absolute genius guy.
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 1: Came from UC Berkeley. Just recently moved up to Seattle.
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 1: Took a new job. Went on a backpacking loop there.
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 1: He disappeared. Never found nothing. But it's repeatedly this big search.
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 1: Find nothing. No tracks, no scent trail, no evidence.
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 2: Of them being there in the same area where there's
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 2: dozens of sightings yes but if you wanted to get
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 2: abducted that's the place to go if you really want
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 2: to find out what's going on have you ever just
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 2: ever thought about have you ever seen anything yourself as
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 2: far as what as far as like something that looks
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 2: like it's from another planet.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, we've seen orbs and UFOs many times.
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 2: Many times?
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 2: Have you taken photos of them or anything?
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 1: We have some, yeah.
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 2: You got good ones?
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of really good orb photos out there.
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 1: So that's not unusual. I think after what I've seen,
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 1: after I've made five documentaries now, I've seen 12 and
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 1: 14 and 15-year-olds do things with special effects that if
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 1: you watched it on film, you wouldn't know if it was.
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 2: Real or not. Well, certainly today. Today, I mean, all
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 2: bets are off. You really can't tell what's real and
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 2: what's not real.
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 1: That's why somebody who sends me a Bigfoot photo or UFO,
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 1: I don't even watch it because you can't tell what's
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 1: real anymore.
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 1: You'd have to go all the way back for me
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 1: to film, actual film, and then I'll look at it.
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 2: Well, David... Thank you very much for being here. It's
• 2:19:11
  Speaker 2: certainly a very interesting subject. I can't imagine what your
• 2:19:15
  Speaker 2: brain is like having studied this for all these many years.
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 2: You've got a very weird version of the world that
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 2: we live in because you've been inundated by this stuff
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 2: for decades. But I think there's something there. I don't
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 2: know what it is. Do you?
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: I'll have to wait for that for maybe round two, huh?
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, round two.
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much. Tell everybody where they can
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 2: find your work, where they can watch your documentaries.
• 2:19:42
  Speaker 1: My two most recent movies, Missing 411, National Parks, Washington
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 1: State is on Amazon. American Sasquatch, Man, Myth or Monster
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 1: is on Amazon. And then you can watch my three
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 1: movies for free on Tubi. And that is Missing 411.
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 1: That's the number one. Missing 411, The Hunted and Missing 411,
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 1: The UFO Connection. And my website is missing411. com, and it
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 1: has all my books.
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Jim.
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 3: My pleasure. All right.
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 2: Bye, everybody.