Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / The Baby Screen Habit Parents Need to Break

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The Baby Screen Habit Parents Need to Break · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: This is the Happy Families podcast, doctor's desk episode today.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Some stats that are going to blow your mind. I'm
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: going to lead with it right now. 16% of Australian
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: three and four-year-olds have been using social media. One in
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: 10 primary aged kids owns a smartphone. And a massive
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: new review of the world's research on babies and screens
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: has just landed on a recommendation that is going to
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: stop you in your tracks, especially if you're raising kids
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: under the age of two. I'll tell you what that
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: is shortly. Today, Doctor's Desk episode, what our littlest kids
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: are really doing on screens and what it's doing to them.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: That's next. Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast, Real Parenting
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Solutions Every Day, Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We are
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  Speaker 1: Justin and Kylie Coulson, the parents of six children. Kylie,
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  Speaker 1: screens seem to dominate way too many podcast episodes. I
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  Speaker 1: wish we could talk about parenting.
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  Speaker 2: It feels a bit like that.
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  Speaker 1: But screens and parenting, they're inseparably connected now.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So today we're talking about two different new pieces of
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  Speaker 1: evidence that have come through that I find fascinating. One
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  Speaker 1: of them is off the back of a new article
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  Speaker 1: that was written on Jonathan Haidt's substack after Babel. So
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Haidt, he's the guy who kicked off the huge
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: noise globally around keeping big tech away from kids until
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: the age of 16. Hence, we have the laws that
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  Speaker 1: we have in Australia as of December 10 last year,
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  Speaker 1: where if you're under 16, you're not supposed to be
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  Speaker 1: on social media. So his substack, he's reporting on four
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: brand new studies that have been published just this year
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: looking at how that change, that legislative change, is going. Interestingly,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: on a Doctor's Desk episode recently, I shared one article
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: that talked about how it's not going well. He somehow
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: managed to find four that say it's going great guns.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: You'll find whatever you look for.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Well, you will. What I'm going to say is this.
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  Speaker 1: He's a very, very enthusiastic proponent of this. I'm actually
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  Speaker 1: on his side, but he's pushing too hard. The evidence
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  Speaker 1: is not strong enough. The studies are not well enough.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: built and put together. And the anecdotal evidence that I'm
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: getting every single day in schools is very, very clear.
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  Speaker 1: Our under-16s are on social media. But there was a
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  Speaker 1: report just published, Kylie, and that's what I want to
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: talk about now. It comes from the East Safety Commissioner.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: It's called the Growing Up Online Report. The families were
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  Speaker 1: surveyed in September 2025. So I'm actually sharing data that's now,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: even though it's only recently been released, nearly a year old,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: because it takes a long time to get good data out.
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  Speaker 1: And that's the other thing, like Jonathan Haidt's trumpeting how
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: well the policy is going, but it's really hard to
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: do good research and to have it published within seven
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: or eight months of the ban taking place. It's just
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: not realistic. Anyway, the East Safety Commissioner, before the ban
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: came in, found this, Kylie, hold your breath. It was
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: never just a teenage problem. It's much bigger than that.
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  Speaker 1: They found, I can't believe I'm about to say this,
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  Speaker 1: One in four kids, 25% of kids aged between 3
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  Speaker 1: and 10, 3 and 10, had been on social media
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  Speaker 1: in the previous month.
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  Speaker 2: When you say been on social media, they've picked up
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: mum and dad's phone and they're on their account or
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: they've got their own account?
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  Speaker 1: It's a combination of both. You and I both know parents,
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  Speaker 1: some friends of ours, who have set up social media
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  Speaker 1: accounts for their kids from the day that they were born.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: And their kids have always had access to their Facebook
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: and their Instagrams. So it's that, but it's also I'm
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: looking over mum and dad's shoulder or I've taken the
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: phone or I'm just going through the social media feed.
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  Speaker 1: But check this one out. This is the one that
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  Speaker 1: blew my socks off. From the eSafety Commissioner, we're talking
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  Speaker 1: about three and four-year-olds with this specific stat, three and four-year-olds.
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  Speaker 1: Sixteen percent of three and four-year-olds had used TikTok in
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: the last month or YouTube or Instagram. Mostly, mostly on
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  Speaker 1: mum or dad's account, but about 20% had their own account.
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  Speaker 1: TikTok for toddlers. Sorry, it just came to me. TikTok
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  Speaker 1: for toddlers. Let's get it out there.
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  Speaker 2: I still don't even know what TikTok is.
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  Speaker 1: No, well, that's because we haven't downloaded it.
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  Speaker 2: Every now and again, somebody sends me something that says
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  Speaker 2: you've got to view it on TikTok. I'm like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: I don't have it.
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  Speaker 1: So I just don't look. I'm on TikTok. My team
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  Speaker 1: posts some stuff there every now and again, but we
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  Speaker 1: don't really focus on TikTok, even though we should because
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  Speaker 1: that's where the world is now. But it's probably costing
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: me commercially, but I'm not willing to do it. Here's
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  Speaker 1: what this is really about. And there was an article
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  Speaker 1: in the Daily Telegraph just a couple of weeks ago
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  Speaker 1: about this. They did a News Corp study. Something like
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: 700 kids were surveyed. they found that two thirds of
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  Speaker 1: 12 to 15 year olds are still on social media
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: five or six months into the ban.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, our personal experience would suggest that. Right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. So essentially the legislation has shifted the boundary. It's
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: moved the line, but it hasn't built the fence that
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: is supposed to keep them out. It's like, okay, well,
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  Speaker 1: the boundary was here and now the boundary is there,
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  Speaker 1: but it's just a line on the ground and people
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  Speaker 1: are quite happy kids are quite happy to to go
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  Speaker 1: over it um what what's happening i think it's going
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  Speaker 1: to be a slow burn i'm actually still on the
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  Speaker 1: side of the people who are saying it can work
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  Speaker 1: what it's doing is what seat belt laws do or
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  Speaker 1: helmet laws do people go oh yeah okay that's not
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  Speaker 1: okay i'm aware that if i'm doing this i'm actually
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  Speaker 1: being a little bit naughty i'm being a little bit
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  Speaker 1: sneaky and slowly but surely the the line will shift
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  Speaker 1: or not just the line the fences will be built
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  Speaker 1: The parents.
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  Speaker 2: But with anything, it's a slow burn. Change always takes time.
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  Speaker 2: But you look at smoking legislation and laws or alcohol or,
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  Speaker 2: like you said, seatbelts, like all of those things, it
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  Speaker 2: took years.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Years and years and years for everything to catch on
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  Speaker 2: and for those, eventually, those fences to be put in
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  Speaker 2: place to help protect the most vulnerable.
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  Speaker 1: The doctor's desk point that I want to make here
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  Speaker 1: is the stats show, A, The ban is, I don't
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  Speaker 1: want to say it's not working, but it's not comprehensively working.
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  Speaker 1: There is a lot of ground to cover. Yeah, it's
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  Speaker 1: made noise. And now people know this is a problem.
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  Speaker 1: Although every time I do a conversation in a school
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  Speaker 1: with parents, it's like screens are still the big issue
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  Speaker 1: for under 16s. I am seeing more parents say, yep,
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  Speaker 1: my under 16s are not on social media anymore. It
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: is building, but there's a long way to go. But
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  Speaker 1: the other thing that I wanted to emphasize is as
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: a parent, if you've got a three-year-old who's using your
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  Speaker 1: phone to scroll Instagram or TikTok, or if you're one
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  Speaker 1: of the parents where like 20% of these kids have
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: actually got their own accounts, stop it. Like this is
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  Speaker 1: really bad for them. So after the break, there's a
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  Speaker 1: global study that's just been published. It's a really big deal.
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  Speaker 1: And it's looking at what's happening with kids and screens
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  Speaker 1: in the first couple of years of life. So that's
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  Speaker 1: our second part of this Doctor's Desk episode. I want
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  Speaker 1: to talk about that next. Whether you're a parent, a grandparent,
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  Speaker 1: you've got big kids or little kids, you really need
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  Speaker 1: to hear what the latest science is saying. Stay with us.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: We're back with the Happy Families podcast. Okay, here's the
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  Speaker 1: source of this brand new under twos evidence on kids
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  Speaker 1: and screens, Kylie. It's a big systematic review of all
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: the research literature that's a bunch of UK researchers did
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  Speaker 1: a huge synthesis, basically, of the global evidence on screens
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  Speaker 1: from birth to age two. I don't know why they've called, well,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: it's beyond age two because they've called it the first
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: 1,001 days. So we're really talking like three years, basically.
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  Speaker 1: But their conclusion, it's very rare that you see researchers
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  Speaker 1: be really blunt. They always couch their their conclusions in
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: very gentle language and say, it appears that perhaps under
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: these circumstances, maybe on average, like that's the research speak.
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  Speaker 1: This is what they've said. And I'm quoting almost directly here.
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  Speaker 2: It's so funny you say that because science is always
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  Speaker 2: about absolutes. And yet when it comes to research, they
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: won't come down with absolutes.
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  Speaker 1: But that's because science is not about absolutes. It's the
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  Speaker 1: people with ideologies that grab the science and say, oh,
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  Speaker 1: this supports my thing. And then they dive in there
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  Speaker 1: and say, this is what it is. But science is
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  Speaker 1: actually about constantly questioning what we think we know. And
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  Speaker 1: that's what I love about the scientific method is we
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  Speaker 1: can be so sure that this thing happens all the time.
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  Speaker 1: And then we do some experiments and go, oh, my goodness,
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  Speaker 1: that's not true. Case in point, praising kids. Everyone thinks
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  Speaker 1: praising kids is great. Oh, hang on. There's some research
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  Speaker 1: now that shows not. Anyway, let's move away from praise
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  Speaker 1: and get back to screens. Otherwise, I'll get carried away
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  Speaker 1: and this will be a four-hour podcast. This is the
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  Speaker 1: conclusion that they gave us when it comes to kids
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  Speaker 1: and screens, that is children in the first 1,001 days
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  Speaker 1: of their life. They say the developmental risks are substantial,
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  Speaker 1: which is tough talk for a scientist.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Really, really tough. What they've also found is this, 50%,
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  Speaker 1: in fact, more than 50% of children are using screens,
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  Speaker 1: I'm talking tablets and phones, by their first birthday. One third-
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  Speaker 1: One third of children are actually playing with tablets and
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  Speaker 1: phones by six months of age. 33% by six months
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  Speaker 1: of age.
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  Speaker 2: I remember when screens first, like the first smartphones came
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  Speaker 2: out and it was very common to see a baby
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  Speaker 2: in a pram, like a young, you know, kind of
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  Speaker 2: under one. holding a phone and scrolling and everyone would
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  Speaker 2: be like, oh my.
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  Speaker 1: Gosh, how clever.
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  Speaker 2: Are they? They know how to do blah, blah, blah.
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  Speaker 2: And it was like this really cool thing.
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  Speaker 1: I just want to grab the screen and throw it
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  Speaker 1: in the nearest pond. When I see that, I'm like,
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  Speaker 1: what are you doing? So there's one more stat that
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  Speaker 1: I want to share. No, two more stats that I
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: want to share. And then I'm There's a concept that
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: the researchers talk about that really grabs me, and it's
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: so important. Stat number one, nearly one in 10, so
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  Speaker 1: we're talking about 10% of two-year-olds, average around four hours
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  Speaker 1: a day on a screen, like a tablet or a phone.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: And about one in five that are under two are
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: using screens with zero parent involvement.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd believe it.
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  Speaker 1: So that's a lot of numbers. It's a lot of stats.
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  Speaker 1: And because this is a podcast, it's hard to hold
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: onto it. So the summary of that is basically kids
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: under two are using screens at really high levels, really
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: harmful levels.
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  Speaker 2: Well, before mobile phones and portable devices became an issue,
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  Speaker 2: we were having conversations around the fact that, you know,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: no more than two hours of screen time, which was television,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: At that point.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that was not for under twos. For two
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  Speaker 1: decades now, I've been saying, if you're under two, it
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: should be zero.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: No, that's right. But now that we've got the convenience
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  Speaker 2: of a portable device, you can see, I mean, the
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: stats are showing us, it just elevates their time on
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: a screen.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Well, this is what the scientists called it, who did
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: this great big synthesis. They called it digital soothing. So
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: what they're basically saying is, That screens are taking over
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: the parent or the caregiver's core jobs of comforting or
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: entertaining or co-regulating emotion.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's so good at it.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Like in the moment, it's so good at it. Yeah.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: And so their concern, and it's mine as well, and
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: I've been, again, talking about this for years, is What
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: the screen's doing is it's displacing. It's not what the
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: screen is giving the kids because at two, they're unlikely
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: to be seeing really concerning content. They may, and I
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: am concerned about it. But what the real issue is
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: with our under twos is that the screen, it's not
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: what it's putting in front of the kids' faces. It's
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  Speaker 1: what it's crowding out of the kids' lives. They call
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: it a serve and return with a parent speaking to
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: a child and then the child babbling back and then
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: the parent, just that responsiveness that's there. And what that
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: does is it builds language. It builds cognition, the ability
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: to think. Kids are moving less. I'm talking to people
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: who work in childcare centers, early learning centers, and they're
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: consistently saying that kids are coming in different in the
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: last few years to what they did maybe 10 or
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: 20 years ago. They used to come in and they're active.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Now they come in and they're either angry or they're
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: sedentary or both. Like there's a genuine shift here. So
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: we need to wrap this up. The key message is this.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: The effects are significant. The data shows that the more
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: exposure there is to screens in those first couple of years,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: it's linked with delayed language, delayed cognitive development, worse sleep,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: poorer eating, higher later adiposity.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: That's a big word.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: I knew if I said that, you'd say that. So
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: adipose tissue or adiposity- is it's basically a medical term
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: for how much fatty tissue or body fat you've got.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: So they're basically saying that kids are overweight. They're just
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: saying it in a very medical way so it doesn't
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: sound bad. The data also shows that they have weaker
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: social skills, weaker peer relationships, and measurably worse school performance
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: years down the track when they look at the longitudinal research.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Okay. We're not dealing with a two-year-old, but we've recently
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: dealt with this with our 12-year-old. She has been constantly
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: at us. She wants to watch her TV show or
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: she wants to play a few games. And she's spent
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of time on screens because she's.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: At home with me. Homeschooling makes it- It's a lot
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: more accessible for her. And digital soothing. You need a
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: few minutes break. You've got to record a podcast with me.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: We'll just let her have the screen.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: And what- we were beginning to realize and recognize was
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: that she was not wanting to be involved in the family.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: She just wanted to be on a screen and it
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: was incessant. She was just at me all the time.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: So we've gone hardcore on this. We've basically said, no
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: more screens. And other than a little bit of TV,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: and certainly no YouTube, a little bit of TV that
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: she watches with her big sisters, she doesn't have screens anymore.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: And we've got a new kid.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: We really do. And I'm looking at the way she's
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: interacting with each of her siblings. Correct me if I'm wrong,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: but I don't think we've had any sibling conflict.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: There's hardly any fighting. No, that's right.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: It's blown me away at what has happened with just,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: it's a massive, I'm not going to say it's little,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: a massive tweak to screen usage.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. It's not a tweak. It's a complete about face.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: She doesn't have screens anymore. Let's go back to the
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: two-year-olds and the doctor's desk episode content that we're talking
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: about here. Fundamentally, most parents, not all, but most parents
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: actually know that zero screens for under twos is what's best.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: I think most parents know, but the reality is in 2026,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: you just can't follow it. There's the stress, there's the busyness,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: there's the isolation. There's so many challenges. I think that
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: what we really need to remember is this. If they're
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: under two, what they need is your face, which is
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: really exhausting for you. But hey, you have kids. I'm
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: actually a little bit lacking in sympathy here. I'm supposed
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: to be very empathetic at this point. But if you
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: have kids, you had them because you wanted them. So
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: don't stick a screen in front of them, especially in
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: those first couple of years. I'd say two to three years,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: just don't. And if screen time is going to happen,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: make sure you're doing it together, not alone. It's not
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: the dummy. It's not the comforter. It's Comfort comes from
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: being with you, not from whatever the algorithm is going
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: to serve up to your two-year-old and your three-year-old. We've
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: got to do better for the sake of our kids.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: If we really loved our kids, this is the guilt trip.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: I'm actually putting the guilt trip on. People might hate
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: me for this and we might lose listeners, but I'm
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: saying it anyway. If you really love your kids, you're
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: going to minimize their screen access to as close to
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: zero as possible in the first two to three years
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: and then keep it as low as possible after that
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: for as long as you possibly can. Today's content is
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: really hard to take. TikTok for toddlers. Kids with social
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: media accounts under the age of five and the data
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: showing genuine developmental liabilities that exist when young kids are
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: on screens.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: And not just during that time period. Like the long-term
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: ramifications for our children are in the evidence.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: The first thousand days build the brain. So work hard
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: to get that right. Okay, that was a bit of
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: a heavy one. Tomorrow, it's I'll do better tomorrow. We're
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: going to be light and fun, we hope, depending on
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: how the week's gone for us. And we'll share how
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: our parenting adventures can help your family to be happier.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Happy Families podcast. Sound, audio,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: engineering from Justin Roulon from Bridge Media. And Mim Hammonds
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: looks after admin and additional support for the pod. More
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: information about making your family happier, available at happyfamilies.com.au.