Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Hardy

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Hardy · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Before Hardy was known as the breakout artist who pushed
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: country music into hard rock territory, he was a self
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: proclaimed redneck from Philadelphia, Mississippi, who studied songwriting at Middle
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Tennessee State University. Since moving to Nashville in twenty thirteen,
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: he's written sixteen number ones for artists like Morgan Wallend,
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Blake Shelton, and Dirk Spentley. In twenty eighteen, with the
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: encouragement of producer Joey Moy and his label Big Loud,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Hardy started writing songs for himself and it paid off.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: He's now a five time ACM Award winner and a
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: two time CMA Award winner, joining the upper echelon of
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Big Loud artists that Moy has helped build, alongside Morgan
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Wallan and Florida Georgia Line. Today's episode, Leo Rose talks
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: to Hardy about the craft of writing a song that sticks,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: including what he's learned from studying artists like Eminem. They
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: also get into how AI is showing up in Nashville
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: rooms and why Hardy thinks bro country isn't going anywhere
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: anytime soon. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Here's Leo Rhodes with Hardy. Head over to YouTube dot
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: com slash Broken Record Podcast if you want to see
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: the video.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Brad Paisley has the uh well I'm gonna miss her,
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: you know the song about uh. She says if you know,
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: it's like if if you if you go fishing today,
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: we're over, and then he just says I'm gonna miss her.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I'm like, that's that's like some shit I would do,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Especially as and so I started that's when I started
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: getting into country. It was just when it kind of started,
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: just the lyrics got a little more clever and it
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: just appealed to like people that grew up country.
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: So is the bro country era? Like that's over?
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: So I I you know, I'm glad you asked. I
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: have not commented on this yet.
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: I know you studied songwriting at school for a period
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: of time. But how did you how do you go
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: from just being like a regular like high school kid
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: to like making the move to Nashville, Like, how do
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: you even know that any of this existed?
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Well, so, my sister moved to Nashville before I did.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: She's a year and a half older than me. She
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: was two grades above me. She was a singer. She
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: was really talented, still is a really talented singer, and
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: you know, she she moved to town and I was
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: in like junior college and just didn't know what I
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: wanted to do. And at the same time, I had
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: kind of gotten you know, decent at guitar and had
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: written a couple songs I mean that literally is it,
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: and was sending them to her. You know, I was
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: recording them on back then. I don't even know what
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: I recorded it on. It was before iPhones, and.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: But I sent them to her and she basically hit
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: me up. One day.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: I was just like, hey, you know, there's a whole
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: industry here, like the songwriting, the publishing industry, where you
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: get people get paid to write songs, and most of
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: the songs you hear on the radio aren't written by
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: that artist, or at least it was written by like
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: some normal guys and girls that just go to the
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: grocery store every day.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: And you know, I didn't listen to country music growing up.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: I grew up in a small town, and I grew
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: up hunting and fishing and doing all the stuff. But
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: I didn't listen to country music because it didn't appeal
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: to me at all. There was nothing I got out
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: of it until like Eric Church and some of these
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: guys that started kind of singing about being a good
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: old boy came along, and then I was like, Okay,
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: I do this stuff, so I resonate with it. But
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: I learned more about songwriting by locking myself in a
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: room for four years and just listening to country music
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: and trying to more or less replicate that in.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: My own way than I did in school.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I feel like I got very lucky
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: and I just made a snap decision and I just
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: sort of wound up here.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I mean I worked really hard.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: You know, with once I signed a publishing deal and
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: all that, and really never gave up and never thought
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: about giving up and all that good stuff. But I
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: just I made such a snap decision and it just which,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: you know, that's I just felt like it was just
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: meant to be.
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: I also saw you that used to be really into
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: like new metal, like you went through a phase I
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: guess when you were a teenager.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Still in it. You're still in it of course, all
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: this stuff.
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: I was so happy for you that you did a
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: song with fred Durst. I was like, that must have
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: been so cool.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: It was a moment where they're like, you know, there's
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: a lot of highs and there's a lot of wow.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: I can't believe I met this person or I wrote
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: a song for this person, or what I'm doing a
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: song with this person.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: But man, the Fred one was different.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: And I was like in Italy at the time, and
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: my at the time, a guy that was working at
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: my label. We had reached out to him, but I
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: had no connection to him other than the guy that
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: was working in my label.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: He texted me just said, hey, if you get a.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: Phone call today from like whatever number, like answer it,
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: It's gonna be Fred Durst. And I was like what
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: and so I it was like one of the coolest
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: things ever.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was such a huge Lambiscuit fan. I
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: still am. I love the stuff they's put out to
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: this day. But yeah, all that stuff, I mean that
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: really that was.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: I was new metal was when I was like age
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: nine to like, you know, fourteen, So those are very
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: very absorbing music years.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: For me, and so I took in a lot of that.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: It just it was, man, something about like all that
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: stuff Lincoln Park. I mean I had I begged my
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: parents for the Hybrid Theory record when I was like
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: ten years old, and the guy gave it to me,
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: and and uh, it just it changed my life.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I mean I was obsessed with that stuff. I still am.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I love it. I love new metal so much.
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: That's so cool. I hear very few people like people
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: like to shit on new metal, but I love that
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: you're into it.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, you can shit on it all you want.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: But like, I know for a fact that both Lincoln
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: Park and lit Biscuit at separate times were the biggest
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: bands in the world.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, System of a Down, same thing.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: They're kind, they're I guess they're new metal ish, they're
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: they're just their own thing. They're huge, But yeah, they're
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: that that era of rock and roll, aside from like
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: a little bit after that with like Nickelback and Three
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: Doors Down, that was like the last era of bands
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: that were just absolutely worldwide, gigantic, so you can shop
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: on it all your own, but that shit was worldwide
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: and they crushed it. So you know, a lot more
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: people liked it than didn't.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you that.
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: What about metal, Like, were you into like Slipknot. Were
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: you into like more like harder metal stuff.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, I love my Suga a lot.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Oh wow, I didn't get into Slipknot as much until
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: I was older. I know that was kind of happening
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: at the same time, but I just I wasn't into
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: slip Knot quite as much. But let's see, high school
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: like a kid made me a burnt set. I was
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: more like in the post hardcore era or like you know,
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: like people call it death core early like a day
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: to remember, like like August Burns.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Red and I don't know.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: There's so many and I rode that way for for
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: quite some time, and I still listen to a lot
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: of stuff now.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I love Spirit Box.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: I think it's dope. I like Falling in Reverse. I
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: if another one that people like to shit on, but
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: I think it's like the fresh freshest ship that's been
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: come out in a long time.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: To Sleep Token, oh, I don't know, Sleep Token, Oh
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: my god, you have to listen to Sleep Talking so sick.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: They are so sick, the huge.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: Like genre blenders, but they're really cool. But yeah, I
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: love all that stuff. If it grooves like I can't
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: listen to I'm not a big like black metal or
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: just nothing that really ever grooves.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: That's why I love Michelle so much is their rifts.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: Were so like clean and and just groovy, and I
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: just I love that kind.
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: Of Yeah, were you kind of like an outcast in
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: high school? Like what was your what were and what
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: were you dressing? Like, like did you have like the
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: spikey Lincoln Park hair?
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: No, I was. I was kind of a regular Southern boy.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: People in high school like to tell me that, uh
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: that I was a little bit differ friend and I
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: was kind of a rocker kid, and I guess maybe
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: I was, But no, I just music was ironically kind
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: of a big Like it was big in my hometown,
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: and like people loved music and all different kinds and
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: there was a little bit of a scene. You know.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: There was a couple of seen kids and metal kids
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: that that I went to high school with.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: But they were also like they were cool, you know,
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: and and uh are just you know, they were popular,
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: they had friends.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: It was just it was sort of different. But no,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I was. I felt like I belonged just right where
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I was and had a good I.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: Mean, I was in I was in like FFA and shit,
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: I was I was a country kid.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: I just, uh wait, that's Farmers future Farmers of America.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: It's my favorite class school.
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: Oh nice.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: Most of my close buddies though, were like, bro, turn
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: the ship off when I would play stuff like that.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: But I just you know, I loved it, and I
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: have I had my metal buddies, and I had my
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: my hunting buddies and you know all that kind of stuff.
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: How old are you when you're allowed to start hunting?
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Seven?
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: Maybe I have an eight year old right now.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh no, I think I said my first
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: deer when I was seven hunting by myself.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I think I was like twelve. Wow. Obviously like my you.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: Know, I would go with my dad and we would
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: go separate ways or whatever.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: But but yeah, a really really young age. It's it's
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: a big part of my family.
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: The men in my specifically, we all were in still
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: are big deer hunters.
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: Yep. So you talked a little bit about the country
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: that was popular when you were growing up and how
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: you didn't identify with it. I guess was that like
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: what was that era? Like how would you classify the
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: music like it was nineties?
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, late nineties, early two thousands. It was a lot
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: of like honky tongue music. I mean, I grew up
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: in a dry county. I didn't drink. I wasn't I
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: didn't start drinking early, you know what I mean. I'd
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: start drinking like or having had my first few beers.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: I guess you would say, like eighteen nineteen years old,
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: like most most kids, you know, maybe twenty, but.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: You're hunting at seven.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, seven. But I didn't start drinking until I was
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: you know, Yeah. It just didn't appeal to me there.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: I'd never been in a bar, you know, And and
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: it was either that or it was very It was
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: like a lot of adult It appealed more to adults
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: back then. I feel like the subject matter and and
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: uh huh, I just didn't. It just didn't resonate with me,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: you know, Brooks and Done who I now go back
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, this music is awesome. But a sixteen
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: year old kid, you know, I don't know anything about
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: boot Scoot and Boy. I've never I've never swing danced
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: or whatever that whatever that song is about.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It just it was it just did
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: not appeal to me at all. It was just very
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: adult and not until Brad.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: Paisley has the uh I'm gonna miss her, you know
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: the song about uh. She says if you know, it's
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: like if if you if you go fishing today were
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: over and then he just says, I'm gonna miss her.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I'm like, that's.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: That's like some ship I would do, you know what
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, especially as and so I started that's when
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: I started getting into the country.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: It was just when it kind of started to just.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: The lyrics got a little more clar and it just
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: appealed to like people that grew up country.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I feel like that was not a thing in the nineties.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: There wasn't a lot.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: Of country boy can survive type stuff in the nineties.
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that makes sense when you could see yourself in
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: the music. Yeah, I heard you talking about like songwriting
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: now in Nashville has gotten very industrialized.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: I guess what I meant by that more than anything
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: is it's just you don't nobody sits around and withou
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: lights candles and says kumbai and talks about what they
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: what they've you know, what they've been through and what
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: that I mean that that does happen, It's happened to
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: me and it's I've written those kinds of songs and
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: they've been recorded and everything, but but uh, you know,
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: really it's just you you sit down that day and
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: you try to write a hit or just the best
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: song in the room, and it's just it's kind of
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: the same thing over and over and over again.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: And that's and that's okay. It's just it's it's a job.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: It's literally like any other job where you know, you
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: kind of just do somewhat of the same thing every day,
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: and uh, that's all I mean. You know, there's there's
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: all kinds of cool, little magic moments throughout town. And
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: you know, like I wrote a song that Cody Johnson
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: recorded called Jesus Loves You. It's not what you think
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: if you go listen to it, but about a guy
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: that is talking to a guy in jail because the
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: guy in jail broke into this guy's house and stuff
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: like that. Like a buddy of mine came in with
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: that exact story the next day because somebody had broken
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: into his house and anyway, so like you know, stuff
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: like that, like it does happen, but it's it's just
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: not as common as uh as just sitting sitting down
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: and just trying to write a good song every day.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: And in that way, I think it's industrialized for sure.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: Got you. Yeah, So are you still enjoying it? Are
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: you still enjoying writing songs?
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I love it so much.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: It's my I enjoy it more than any part of
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: my career. I enjoy it all, but I enjoy it
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: more than any part of my career.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, that feels like pretty amazing because you've obviously
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: done it for so long. You're almost like a decade.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: In right, professionally twelve years in.
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, the fact that you still love it is
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: pretty amazing.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: That.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, I like to consider myself a decent singer
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: and a pretty good performer, but I think that the
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: reason that I was put on this earth was to
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: write songs. There's just just something that happens to me
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: in a songwriting room that, like, I can be having
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: the worst day, I could be having like a mental
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: breakdown or anxiety or whatever it is, and the second
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: we get on a song and start digging into a
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: lyric or whatever.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, everything in the world just goes away.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: And that's that is that it is my zen moment,
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: especially professionally. It's like the one time that I just
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: sort of feel like I'm just in a different place
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: and it's just such a cool thing.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I love it so much.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Have you ever tried to analyze what it is about
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: the process that you love so much? Like, is it
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: like the puzzle part of it? Is it the like
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: clever side of it?
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: A lot? I think all of it, I think, or
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: at least those two things. You kind of nailed it.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: I mean it is very much, especially with country, like
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: every line has a place like you're not there's you know,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: somewhat of rule, like you don't really you're not supposed
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: to contradict yourself, like don't say anything that you said
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: before in the song within the song. You know, there's
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: all these different kind of caveats or rules or whatever, and.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I just love and so in that way, it's like
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: a puzzle.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: It's like, well, what do we say in the second
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: verse that we haven't said in the first verse, and
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: like how does that course sort of change the course?
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: But you get back to the chorus in the same
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: way and all that. The puzzle is like really my
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: favorite part. But lyric more than anything, like a lyric,
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: the lyrics more than the melody and the music and
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: all that.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: That's that's where I get off. I love that stuff.
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: Is it okay in the room when you're in the
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: room with people and you're writing, Is it okay to
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: use AI?
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: Is it okay to like put something in chat gpt
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: and be like can you like I do it.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: All the time with with with uh you get Look,
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: here's the thing. Any Nashville songwriter would be lying if
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: they didn't say that they didn't go to write either
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: like rhyme zone dot com or like a rhyming.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Dictionary website thing.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: And so if I'm stuck and I'm like, hey, can
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: you give me a line for whatever that is in
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: the vein of like you know, being outside in the woods,
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: I'm just looking at my computer back screen, which is
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: like you know the woods, and you know, half the time,
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: like I would never chat chat GPT doesn't have a soul,
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: so like it doesn't a I would never ask it.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: But it doesn't get like the inner soul that produces
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: like the lyric that will make somebody cry, if that
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: makes sense.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So that all just comes from being a.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: Human, but with like rhymes and just sort of stuff,
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: really simple stuff I've used it before for sure.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like it's, if anything, it's like a
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: good jumping off point.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Sure, I mean it's not going I love that. You
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: might as well be a part of it.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: So when you locked yourself in the room, what did
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: you figure out about country? Like what was the formula?
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: Did you crack the formula or did you were you
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: like trying to figure out themes that like resonated with
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: big audiences or were you trying to think more about
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: like verse, chorus bridge, that kind of thing, like the
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: mechanics of the song.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, more more of the mechanics. You know.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: I didn't really get into I still, I swear to
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: this day, not until like you're at you're deep in
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: the middle of.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: A song, do you think, like, oh man, okay, this
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: is a hit.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Like what if we do a moment right here where
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: it's like booom crowd moment, you know, like that's kind
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: of that comes way later, I feel in the process,
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: at least for me, it did. So for me, I
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: was just figuring out the structure and it's just you know,
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: it's like you either go verse chorus, verse chorus, bridge, chorus,
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: or you go verse chorus, verse, chorus, solo, chorus, or
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: you start with a chorus and then you do a
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: verse and then a chorus and then a solo and
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: then a bridge. You know, there's there's like four or
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: five different formulas, and I don't know, I just kind
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: of felt like I learned those types of things.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: And you know, a big one for me was paying attention.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: I was a big M and M fan, still am,
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: but figuring out how to phrase lines putting emphasis on
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: the right vowels so that there is a uh is
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: it assonance? And I think it's assonance is the one
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: that like puts the emphasis on the vowels And so
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: if if if, like I studied that a lot, like,
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: because there's certain ways you can phrase a line that said,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: and you can phrase a line two different ways and
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: make them sound one sounds like a hit and one
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: doesn't sound like a hit. And it's all about where
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: you put the emphasis on certain like parts of the word.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: And I wish that I could just pull one out
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: of my ass and do it right now.
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: Dude, wait, can you think of one from your own
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: catalog or maybe something from Eminem, like an Eminem song
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: where he does Okay.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Let me think really quick.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: Uh oh my god, that's this is gonna kill me now,
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: because like you can't do it now.
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: So if you put emphasis on a word in a sentence,
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: it'll make it sound more like a hit. Is that
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: what you're saying?
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like if you if you were gonna say like like.
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: Think of like a Morgan Wallin's or some like big like.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: Okay, all right, So the second verse of more than
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: my Hometown, I ain't the runaway kind.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I can't change that.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: My heart's stuck in these streets like the train tracks,
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: city sky ain't the same black?
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Ain't that a map dot? Shame?
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: And to think that chorus I Love you More, it's
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: just like finding those vowels that sound the same and
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: making sure that you sing them the exact same every
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: single time, so that it just sounds like a bar.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: It sounds like an eminem song, you know.
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: It sounds very hip hoppy.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so cool. I studied that.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: There's a guy he's still around and he's written so
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: many hits. But Casey Bethard, I'm not gonna call him
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: old man. I'm gonna run into him and be like, boy,
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: you call me old man, but he it's like, man,
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: I want to I'm always wanted to ask him, like, dude,
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: who did you listen to to to develop your internal
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: rhyme scheme? Because he if you go back, I mean,
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: you look at all the songs he's written, but he's
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: just got He had such a cool way of finding
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: those internal rhymes because they're kind of sometimes they can
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: be hidden in a line, you know, and the right
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: person sings it the right way and you're like, oh,
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: that sounds awesome. But he he, I really learned from him.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: And Rodney Clausen was another one. There's a second verse
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: or first verse of that. Uh. Actually, I don't even
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: know if Rodney wrote this song. But around here at
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: g L, I'm gonna pick her up at six.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I hope she's gonna wear the geens with the tear
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: that her mama never fixed. I don't know.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: It's just finding all the little internal internal rhymes in
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: there that makes a song better.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: It always makes a song better.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: Cool.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: I say all the time, if you if you when
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: you're writing a song and it's like a tongue twister.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: Sometimes people are like, ah, that's kind of hard to sing,
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: and I'm like no, because when you finally spit it out,
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: it's gonna sound awesome, like it's you know when it's
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: hard to say that means it's it's it's a good thing.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: You just have to learn it, you know.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I feel like with the song radio song, you're
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: writing about the thing, like you're commenting on things and
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: getting really clever with like the fourth wa yes, yeah, yes,
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: did you start doing that like out of boredom? Like
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: were you trying to make a statement like how like
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: where did that come from?
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: I just always liked songs about songs or like they
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: call it meta to you know, like it's yes, like uh,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: and for radio songs specifically, I just I've there's a
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: few songs that have done that in history that I
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: loved and I wanted my own version of that. There
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: was a song, you know a lot of people don't know,
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: the Hey Ya buy outcast is about how people these
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: days don't stay together anymore. They just get married and
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: then they'll just get divorced. And that song is like
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: my baby don't mess around because she loves me so
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: and this I know for sure, Like thank God for
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: mom and dad for sticking to together because we don't
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: know how, and then and the bridge, he's like, y'all.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Don't want to hear me, you just want to dance. Hey, y'all,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Like this.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: Song is, yes, it's like really cool, but the chorus
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: is just like you.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Know, man, but whatever, y'all don't care. Here's a chorus.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: And that's kind of where I just I.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Wanted to do something like that with with radio song.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: And by no means was I fed up. I mean
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: I wrote that in the peak of my well, I
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: like to say, my first peek in my songwriting career.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: So like my relationship with radio was great and I'm
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: like praising God every day for the radio, so you know,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: and most of the radio people that I've come in
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: contact with, they love it and they get the cheekiness
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: of it.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: And when I play it live, yeah, I'll if the
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: radio people.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: Are in the room, I'll give him a wink and
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: kind of make a big smile like I'm never really
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: angry about it. I just I just wanted to write
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: a song about a song. And that's not the first
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: time I've done it, but I enjoy doing it sometimes.
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, No, that's fun and it makes sense when like
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: knowing that you admire people like Eminem. He commented a
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: lot on the state of like the music business and
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: just pop culture in general.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: Fleewood Matt kind of did it with rumors, but it
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: was a little bit more cryptic. But like Eminem was
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: the first person also to just completely open up his
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: actual life to the world, and so it was like
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: listening to reality music, you know what I mean. Yeah,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: And I think, you know, I don't ever, I don't
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: have the balls to do that. I don't want to
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: air out which I don't have a whole lot of laundry,
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: but I don't want to air out my laundry to
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: the world.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: But he you know, I've always admired him for that
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: because that was really brave of him to do that,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: and it worked.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: People became invested in like his story, you know, and
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: it just it totally worked, and I think that's so cool.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: And then he had like eight Mile and then that's
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: even like taking it further. Yeah. And then bro Country.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: I want to ask you about that song too, So
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: is the bro Country era? Like that's over?
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, So I you know, I'm glad you asked.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: I have not commented on this yet, Okay, me and
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: Arn came up with that idea together at at Morgan
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: wallin Show of All Things, we were opening for him like.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Three and a half to four years ago.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: I feel like that concept completely, like I'm I'm like
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: owning up to this, but I feel like the concept
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: of bro country the song is kind of out the
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: window because I now feel like in the next few
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: years some of that is going to come back. And
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: I'm just being completely honest. You know, when we wrote it,
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: it was like, man, there's all these new people that
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: are coming in and they're you know, it was very
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: it was very fresh off of like a really potent
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: bro country era. But even just four or five and
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: now almost maybe six years later, you know, there there's
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: a guy. There's a guy kid right now named Cody Loadin.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: He's doing this like broke. He's got a song called
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: a Buckle Up and it's just it's just earwormy, like
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: the debt the Muse. The lyrics aren't super super deep,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: but they're so well written, and it's just it's that thing.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: It's just like, don't know what we're gonna do tonight,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: but baby buckle Up. But it just it sounds good,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: I saw a girl, Lauren Watkins make a video a
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: while back and she was like, I'm just gonna say
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: I miss bro Country. Uh, And she was like, I
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: want She didn't use word objectified, but she was like,
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: I want to be called hot.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I want people to think I look hot with my
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: legs swinging off tailgate. I miss it. Bring it back.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: And I was like, man, you know that's right.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: And I honestly believe that girls that grew up in
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: that era listening to that kind of miss that a
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: little bit.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: And Morgan Morgan will do it like Morgan.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: Does it, and but he's kind of the only guy
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: that sort of can still get away with it. But
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: all that to be said, I think it's going to
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: come back in the next ten years. I think it's
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: going to come back, and I just I'm here for it.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: So sorry, bro Country. Broke Country was was It wasn't
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: a bad idea, but I think it was a short
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: lived thought.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Yep, we'll be back with more from Hardy after the break.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: I heard you say in a different interview that you
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: were talking about how if you have a number one hit.
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: I think it was if you have like a number
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: one song on the radio, you get like as a songwriter,
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: you get like two hundred thousand dollars.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, take yeah, give or take.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: And I was just curious, like as a range, like,
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: how does being a songwriter compare to being an artist
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: who's touring, who's like playing stadiums monitor earl. But yeah,
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: just like range wise, like like.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Touring makes way more money if you're killing it.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: But something that I learned recently, and I'll be somewhat
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: cryptic here, but like if you do have a string
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: of hits as a songwriter, you have the ability to
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: sell your catalog and you don't get that back, you know,
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: so you kind of want to make sure that most
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: of the stream has run out, your revenue stream from
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: the songs that you're selling has run out. But if
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: you have enough hits and you sell a catalog as
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: a songwriter, you can make a shit ton of money.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: And it kind of will put in perspective like touring
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: versus writing, if that makes sense, right, because if you're
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: like a well, if you're a stadium act, that's like
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: a different level of money and that's not I'm I'm
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: like an amphitheater act at best, but.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: It is really good.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: But you know, you would have to be really crushing
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: it as a songwriter to kind of get close to
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: like a somebody that's crushing it touring, to be honest.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: But again, yeah, the catalog sale kind of makes up
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: for that on the back end a little bit because
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: that's a really that's like you're super ball as a
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: songwriter too, is you want to be able to do
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: that one Day's that creates that's a different type of
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: like send your grandkids to.
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: College, totally generational wealth. Yeah, so how do you know
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: when you said, like when it's run its course? Like,
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: how do you know when that time is?
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you have a business manager, they can
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: kind of keep an eye on it, but you just
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: like you get you get a statement from your pro quarterly,
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: the people that pay you, and you could just see,
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: you know, like I can go pull my last statement
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: up and you know obviously like I wrote a Blake
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: Shelton song called God's Country and like that's that was
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: one of my biggest hits.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: And and like at its.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: Peak it was making this much and you know I
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: can just see that, like you can just sort of
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: tell when it sort of dwindles down to around this,
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: maybe a very lower five five figure number for a
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: year or so at a time, and then you know,
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: basically a company is willing to buy that song for
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: more than what that fight what fivegers quarterly would make
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: in your lifetime.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: So you're kind of taking the money and run, but.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: Running, yeah, because like it's it's still an investment for
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: other companies because over one hundred years it's gonna or
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: seventy years, it's gonna make more than what they paid
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: you for it.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: But you're like, you know, again, make the money and
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: run kind of thing.
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: But then something like a Stranger Things could license a song.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: Because because they could, you could get like an eight
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: figure deal off of something crazy and then Sony or
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: you know, somebody like that owns it now and that happens.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: You know, like you just never know, Like you never know.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: A song that I sold could could be sampled and
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: be the biggest like Swedish dance song in the world
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: and make a ton of money, and you know, but
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: that's just that's kind of the risk that you take
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: when you sell a catalog, So you just never know.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: I was curious about the way that you sequence an
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: album with country country you like with the song bottom Land,
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: Why did you put that all the way at the
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: end of the album? Like, how do you think about
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: the sequencing?
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: I don't remember that since that that record had like
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: twenty songs on it, I fel that was harder for
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: me to curate or or to to make the list
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: for sure.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: So I can't really.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Give an answer as to why more towards the end,
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: to be honest with you, but I will say I do.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: I'm heavily involved, if not one responsible for every track
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: order of every record that I've done.
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: Oh, I'm sure.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, It's just you know, I know that.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: People don't listen to albums front to back anymore, but
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: I feel like in that way, I'm kind of an
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: old soul, and it's like I've always loved albums and
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: like a body of work, and I think that, you know,
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: for people that create music to make a body of work,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: I guess want it to be listened to front to back.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: And so I definitely will look at the list of
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: songs and try to like pull you emotionally all over
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: the place by the end, so that there's nothing that
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: seems too monoton or or too repetitive.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: On the record if that makes it Yes, Yeah.
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: You mentioned that it had a really long track list,
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: Like why not just put half of those out and
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: save the other half for a future release.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I just I don't. I don't operate like that.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Like I this this record was very intentionally country and
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: and yeah it was. It was kind of a retaliation
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: to me leaving the country space for a year and
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: going into the rock space because my last record was
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: called Quit and we we marketed that as a rock record.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: So this was sort of almost I didn't treat the
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: music sarcastically, but like it was like a here's your
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: here's a big ass country record for everybody to enjoy.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: And uh, and that it's just it's where my head space.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: That's where I was, like, you know, in my headspace,
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: and and uh, I like I said, I want to
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: move on, and like I have a different project already
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: in mind for like the next thing.
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: And so no, I know you do. I want to
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: hear about it.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: What is it? Is?
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: It way different?
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: It's yes, a little bit of the same, a little
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: bit different.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: It's just it's a I'm getting back to like a
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: concept kind of like the mocking bird and the Crow
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: which was my second album, which I still think is
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: kind of my flagship record.
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: So far, right because it's got the country and the
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: rock together.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like that.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: It's sick if somebody was like, who's hardy, you know,
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: like what what should I listen to? Like, that's that's
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: what the reference probably is. But no, I mean, I
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: have I have a concept. I'll probably have my first
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna have like an eight minute song on the record,
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: which I'm stoked about that kind of talks about the concept.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: And it's just I'm just trying to continue to sort
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: of push boundaries and just keep people on their.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Toes and make people just be like what the fuck?
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: And that's just is it like a different genre of music,
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: like a totally different genre or is it like just
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: new metal and country.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: A little bit of this little bit of that.
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: Is it like trap or something?
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, it's not like that.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: It's it's all Look, it's all under the umbrella of
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: like me and my music.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: But it's just it's it's more it's less like a
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: genre changing and more of like a theme.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: It's more of like, uh, a concept, yeah, like a
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: concept or it's just it's got more of a theme,
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: an intentional theme to the structure of the album. I'm
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: still probably a year out from a record coming out,
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: hopefully more because I need some time to really I
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: want this one to really count, because I've always believed too,
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: Like you know, my first record was a rock and
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: it did well, but then the Mocky Bird and the
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: Crow did really well, and then Quit didn't do quite
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: as good as Marckybird and the Crow, and then Country
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: Country did a little bit better than Quit, but.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: Not as good as Yeah, for sure.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: But I'm a firm believer that that just because you
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: had records that followed a record that didn't do as
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: good doesn't mean that you're done making your best record.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: Pretty Hate Machine was nine Inch Nails as first record,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: and I think that came out in like eighty nine
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: or nine or something, and that was like their biggest
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: record for a long time. And then With Teeth came
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: out like seventeen years later, and that is like the
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: record that everybody knows nine inch Nails by, and I'm like, man,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: if they can do that, I feel like I can
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: do that. I just have to keep trusting myself and
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: know that there's still something greater out there to explore.
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: Do you feel like you make the music for you
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: or do you make it for the audience.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: I think I make it for me. I've thought about
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: this a lot.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: I just want to make stuff that's like I would
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: think is cool, you know, like that I would listen to.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: I think I definitely think like when I get something
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: really great, I'm like, my fans were gonna love this,
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: but I don't. I'm not making anything for anyone outside
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: of my fan base to be impressed with. Like, I
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: just want, like I'm not like, man, I need more
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: metal fans, or I need more traditional country fans, or
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: I need to do like I just don't operate like that.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: So but mostly I just I want to make shit
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: that I just think sounds cool, and like me and
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: buddies all just think is cool, you know, And and yeah,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: that's just sort of the starting point, I guess.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, let's break and we'll be back with Hardy.
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: Have you had to deal with any friends or any
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: collaborators who want to kind of be like where you're at,
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: Like any fellow songwriters people you work with that also
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: want to be maybe artists themselves, but for whatever reason,
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: can't make that transition or have tried and haven't found success. Yeah,
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: have you had to deal with that? Like has that
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: hard for you being someone who has crossed over and
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: found success?
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm not not necessarily everybody that. Like, Like,
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: my best friend is his name is Hunter Phelps, and
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: he he did the artist thing for a while and
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: just never he he did really well, but he never
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: like never signed a deal, never had a radio single
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: or anything like that. And and he you know, so
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: he kind of hung it up, or at least, you know,
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: full time hung it up. And then he has like
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: fifteen number ones under his belt as a writer now,
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: so like most people have parlor or transitioned into something
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: really great. Another friend of mine, Jordan Brooker. Jordan was
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: a songwriter and he was one of the kind of
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: guys that that and he would he would be fine
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: with me saying this sort of got like he sort
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: of went into a corner and was like, I don't know,
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: I kind of want to.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Go do like my own rock thing.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: And we were all like, bro, we're all writing country
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: songs like come with Us, and so I feel like
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: he kind of got left behind a little bit. And
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: then like ten years later, I end up signing his
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: rock band to a record label and he's killing it
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: and he's making like awesome music.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: So every I feel like everybody that.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: That I felt like has not had success has turned
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: whatever that into something else that's been really great.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: So that's really special.
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's awesome. Why do you think that it worked
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: out so well for you when there's like, I don't
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: know if there's so many people have you know, I'm
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: sure a ton of people moved to Nashville to try
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: and do the exact same thing, but you made it. Like,
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: what do you think the difference is? Like do you
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: think it's innate talent? Do you think you just are
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: you work harder, you met the like the right people, Like,
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: what is it?
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: I think it's just all of it luck. I think
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: it's all of it together.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: But I think the driving force for me is just
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: being a decent person.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: And just treating people right and being polite.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: And everybody has their moments, like you know, and it
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: sucks when you do have a bad moment with a
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: fan or with somebody, or somebody sees you kind of
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: being an ascid But you know what, man, we're all
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: we all have those days.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: We all have those moments.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: It just sucks to be sort of in the spotlight
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: or just being kind of caught at the wrong place
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: at the right or wrong time.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: But you know, talent is.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: Fifty one percent of it, luck is ten percent, right
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: place at the right time is ten percent, and then
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: the other twenty nine percent or whatever is I really
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: truly believe, and hard work is in there too. But
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: it's just being somebody that people want to work with.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: Because I can tell you right now I have people
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: that I write with that are not the best writers
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: in town. There are people that are more talented than
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: the people I love working with. That sucks as a
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: human being, and I don't want to work with that
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: person period. So, like Pete, just be somebody that people
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: want to work with, that people.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Want to root for, and and and just a good
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: hanging pet that people like being.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: You know that you make people feel comfortable being being
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: around you. I think it. There's so much of that.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, all of the all of the biggest people
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: in Nashville, the people that I looked up to, like
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: Blake Shelton, the Luke Bryan, Miranda Lambert, Derk's Bentley have
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: all been the most kind, easy to be around people,
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: personable and just normal at their core people.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: And I just I truly believe that's why.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: That's what turns people into like a superstar, is that
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: so many people just love.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Who you are.
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: I feel like Lady like that too. She seems so.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Cool, unbelievably normal, Like unbelievably normal.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: She would she hits me up all the time and
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: she's we our schedules are also crazy, so we haven't
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: done it.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: But she's like, you want to go get some.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: Mexican food, you know, And I'm just like, man, it
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: just sounds like something. You know, she is my buddy,
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: but just sounds like something one of my guys buddies
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: would just be like, hey, dude, you know. I mean,
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: she's so that girl for the amount of success and
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: stardom that she's experienced, has not changed a single bit.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: And I love that so much about her.
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: Is there anybody that you want to work with on
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: the new album that you can tell us about, like
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: any collaborations or any like new metal people, you know.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: I'm not really sure. I mean, I love Mike. Mike
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Shinoda would be really cool.
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but he's so cool have you met him?
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: No, No, I never met him.
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: That would be very cool, even I mean I would
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: do another song with Fred Durst, or even like if
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: I had, like Wes Borland play like a a part
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: on something I don't know's there's a million a million people,
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: I'm sure that would come to mind.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: But I haven't really given it a lot of thought yet.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: I've only written I think five or six songs for
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: this next project, and I've got a long way to go.
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: So okay, you have twenty more So with like the
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: Fred the Fred Dirt back to the Fred Durst song,
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: like when he did he send you that verse and
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: then you listen to it and then like did you
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: work remotely or cause you guys weren't in the same
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: we weren't.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I had that hook, I had that chorus. When
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: we cut it in the studio, we just cut like,
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: you know whatever. It was sixteen bar verse and I
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: just sent it to him and he was like, what's
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: what kind of vibe are you feeling? And I sort
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: of would send it back and then he was like
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: what about this? And I'm pretty sure the first thing
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: he sent back, I was like, that sounds like Fred Durst. Like,
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: that's that's cool to me, and that's what we went with.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: But yeah, unfortunately we didn't get to sit in the
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: same room together, but it was it was again, like
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: extremely cool, and you know, he didn't he didn't go silent,
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: but like he had just had a kid or something.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Kind of right in the middle of it.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: So I didn't hear from him for like a few weeks,
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: and then I was writing a song with some friends, uh,
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: and I was wearing a hat to say live laugh
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: lit biscuit kind.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Of cheesy, and that day he texted out of the blue.
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: After like three weeks I'm not hearing from him, he
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: texted me all like his verses and stuff, and I
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, that's cool, and I sent him a
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: selfie wearing the hat and then he was like yo,
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: he was like who made that hat?
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: I'm about to go sue him and put that on
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: our own merch line.
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: Totally, that's crazy. So do you feel comfortable at that
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: point since you look up to him so much and
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: you love him, Like, do you feel comfortable being like, oh, hey,
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: can you change like the third line or.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah it doesn't definitely, yeah, yeah, I mean in a
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: creative space, you know, and he's an artist and he
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: gets that. So I, you know, I don't really remember
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: the details of that conversation, but one percent if there
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: was one thing that bothered me. Again, he's a creative,
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: so he totally gets it. I I feel like he
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: would totally respect.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: That and and and and come back with.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: Whatever was best for the song for sure, which is
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: so crazy to think about.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: You know, Hey, Fred Durst, I didn't like that on
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: a lie or whatever.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: But you know, that's the great thing about working with
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: great artists is, you know, people we're all just on
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: the same page. Like, yeah, I haven't gotten in an
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: argument with an artist or like a songwriter.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Maybe ever, but in a very long.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: Time, because it just everybody is in it for the
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: greater good of writing a great song. And that's what
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: I think a true creative is is that's just that's
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: what they do. And and yeah, it's been it's been
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: really cool to work with all different kind of artists.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, I've done stuff like Bear Teeth.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: And and everything from I mean post Alone and uh
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: It to.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Like Landy Wilson and there's they you're all they're all
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: on the same page. It's all. It's all doing the
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: same kind of work, just with different people.
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I just want to ask you about Joey moy Yeah,
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: so he used to be you mentioned Nickelback, So he
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: was a producer with Nickelback, right, and then now he's
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: kind of like transitioned into this to like a whole
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: like country Nashville kind of career. Is he sort of
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: like the mastermind behind a movement in Nashville? Like, how
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: do you describe his position right now? Like what he's built.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean he's done it twice in that and
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: he's done it three times in music.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: I mean he so he he did. He started I.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: Believe as an engineer and that in Vancouver working on
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: Nickelback records, and then he got the producer gig for
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: I want to say dark Horse, but I want to
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: say it was like, uh, it was after Silver Side Up,
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: so it was maybe like all the right reasons the
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Long Road and dark Horse. But anyway, he was a
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: part of the Nickelback's like a really big wave. And
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: then he was involved with a guy named a manager
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: in town that just goes by.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Chief, I believe, and Chief had moved to Nashville.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: I also believe and talked to Joey into coming and
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: producing some songs. That's that's Rodney Clausen was involved. Long
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: story short, Joey came and produced a jac Ohen record
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: and kind of put this stadium rock thing on it,
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: and Jake had a song called Barefoot the Blue g
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: Knight that was like massive, and then from there he
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: started producing Florida Georgia Line and then like that just
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: sort of that changed everything for a very long time
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: in Nashville. I think still to this day, is that
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: one stuck like there will be people that sound like FGL,
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: I think for a long time. Yeah, and then uh,
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: around the time actually yeah, around the time FGL broke
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: up Morgan walland took off and Joey produced all of
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: Morgan stuff, And so yeah, I mean he's he's he's
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: got a thing figured out. I've sat in every single
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: and he's my producer as well. I sat in every
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: single set, every song we've ever recorded. He's extremely meticulous.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: His biggest thing is like there never being any blank
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: space in a song. When there can be a catchy
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: part that's written, it's usually a guitar part, but like
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: feeling the space feeling the space, making sure it's palatable
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: and you can sing along to it, and that whole thing.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: I think that's a big part of how he produces,
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: is just making sure that there's no dead space for
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: anybody to become or to get bored. You know, he's
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: out in LA now kind of running the rock label,
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: and I feel like, I kind of joke. I haven't
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: said this to him, but I think he's just like
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: he's not at the end of his career, but he's
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: done so much shit and I think he's made so
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: much money that he's like, I just want to run
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: a rock label and sign rock bands and like do
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: that whole thing.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: So he's spending a lot of time.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: In LA right now doing that and just just living
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: his best life.
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: I feel like with it's like the pressure is off,
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: He's probably gonna have a whole new era, like a
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: whole new success, like find a whole new group of
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: people that are good to kill it.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, he's one of the smartest people, if
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: not the smartest human that I know, so like he
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: completely understands this new era with social media, Like I like,
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: shit that goes over my head and I'm just like
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: how Michael Scott says, explain this to me like I'm
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: a ten year old.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: That's how I feel like talking to him a lot.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: But yeah, but he just gets it.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: He's one of those people that like he'll be around
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: forever because he just understands music on a different level
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: than a lot of people.
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, Hardy. I'll let you go,
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: But thank you so much. It's been cool to talk
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: to you.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I really enjoyed it.
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: I feel like when we get into songwriting, I'm like,
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: I could talk hours about songwriting.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: I love it so much. So thanks for letting me
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: open up about that.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: In the episode description, you'll find a link to a
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  Speaker 2: playlist of our favorite Hardy songs. Be sure to check
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  Speaker 2: Our theme music expect Henny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.