Latest / WHAT I'VE LEARNT / What I've Learnt - Jane Badler- Hains

Transcript

What I've Learnt - Jane Badler- Hains · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: One of the most inspiring, energetic, creative people I've known, Jane Badler Haynes, a beautiful, talented New Yorker, arrived in Melbourne in the 80s as an actor who's best known for her role as Diana in the cult NBC miniseries V.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: She's worked with many, including actors Alec Baldwin, Val Kilmer, and featured on talk shows from Johnny Carson to David Letterman.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Arriving in Australia to play a role in the reboot of the Mission Impossible TV series, Jane stayed.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Producer, singer, actor, and mother, she fell in love with and married Ozzy Stephen Haynes of the established Racing Haynes family.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: And as they say, the rest is history.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Jane's story is one of great passion and great pain.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Always articulate, creative, and open about the challenges of mental health and addiction.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sadly, Jane tragically lost her beautiful son Harry Haynes, 27, through an accidental overdose in January this year.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Jane is open about how she has coped, her grief, the loss, and the addiction epidemic destroying so many young lives.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Harry Haynes family is keeping the legacy of their late son alive with Anti Boy, the American horror story actors musical project that puts forth a genderless, transhuman in order to encourage dialogue around sexuality, gender, race, and self-expression.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Harry had always said, Antiboy represents the idea that most things that we are taught to believe are an illusion.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: With almost 800,000 streams already, it seems Harry's voice is still very much being heard thanks to Mum Jane and her creative team.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: For its music video, Harry's surviving brother, Sam Haynes, a talented digital artist, worked to create a utopia-like world that switches between actual, everyday moments with surreal CGI scenes.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Jane says Harry created Anti-Boy as a reaction against being seen as either a boy or a girl because Harry hated labels.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't want people to look at him as gay or straight or gender-fluid, which is ultimately what he saw himself as.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: He represented the idea that all things that we believe are illusions.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: The idea of gender, the idea of sexuality, of race, they're all social constructs.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: So he created this kind of ultimate universe in the future that questions what if you have no race.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: He felt that there should be true equality.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think now more than ever, it's very timely.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome, Jane.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So thrilled to have you here on the What I've Learned podcast.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Absolute pleasure.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a dystopian year for all.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you know we've all struggled, and I'm really keen to see how you've managed because you've had not only COVID to deal with, but grief.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me a little bit about how you have managed.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Before we even start, could I get a copy of that, please?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: That was so briefly written.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to use some of those quotes.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm honored, Jane.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm absolutely honored.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know me.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love a I love writing a little bit of an intro.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and to be honest, there was such a beautiful story there that I put it on.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: So full.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Just says say what a year.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um just the whole world.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's like uh Harry's boyfriend posted on his Instagram yesterday, it was Harry's birthday, that um Harry came with an electrical storm, and when he left, the world went with him.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that makes me so emotional because he left and COVID erupted.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of what happened.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Surreal.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know it is surreal.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: We were the we were so lucky because we had the most extraordinary memorial in LA.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like COVID followed us.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was at that point, we were allowed to do a very big memorial in LA, and then that was the last one.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then we came here and did a very big memorial.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and uh that was the last one.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So um it just was kind of blessed that we were able to celebrate his life with all his friends, because now, of course, most people can't do that.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, it's just been a crazy year.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in some ways, my husband and I were very blessed because we were able to go into lockdown, and that's just what we needed.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: We were not feeling particularly social and we had a lot of grieving to do.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we had months of just the two of us cocooning ourselves in our home, uh, and just able to really grieve.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: And for us, it was it was okay.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we were lucky, yeah.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: We are also um extraordinary couple, I have to say, because you know, I can my observation is that you both nurture and uh love the the use of the word cocoon because I can see that that actually it created a shelter for you, ironically, being in that COVID experience, but also it meant that there was really nowhere else to look, was there?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like in some ways, the distractions of life that often take you on that river of grief, and you really had to go internal, very, very internal.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that that was where your focus had to be.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Did you find that that was uh challenging or um I think no matter when you lose a child, I think no matter what you do, it's challenging, whether you have any distractions or whether you have no distractions.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think there's any easy way to navigate it.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just uh the journey just is.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh for us, that that was the card we were dealt with was um being in isolation together.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't feel very social.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and my I have so many beautiful friends, I am very blessed that would have loved to have seen me, and we couldn't.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that takes a lot of energy.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Socializing takes energy.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it could be positive energy, but it takes energy, and I don't think I had any energy.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: I had no energy to to uh you know to to uh to be nice or to make excuses because let's face it, grief is a pretty lonely affair, uh, the way we grieve.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um for me it's a it's a very isolating thing in that I I like to grieve alone.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I don't mind friends reaching out, I love that.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: But when it comes right down to it, I'm gonna scream and I'm gonna cry and I'm gonna let it all hang out.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: I like to do it in the privacy of my car or in a room.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: I like a keening woman, you know.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to let it all hang out, and I that's embarrassing.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to, you know, kind of Yeah, no, and I think that's probably a common experience.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think most people would feel that similarly, but also um, in some ways, you had the protection because you could you didn't have to be somewhere or or you know, confront any of that.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, my husband and I went to lawn at that time and I had a real schedule.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was very disciplined.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: I did yoga, we meditated, I wrote, um, we ate very healthy.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we sort of almost put ourselves into a funny little retreat, you know, that we could you know that we could heal.
• 7:21
  unknown: Yeah.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that is actually extraordinary, Jane, because you really drove that.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: You you actually sort of nurtured Stephen and and yourself, and that's something you're particularly good at.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Is something, is that something that you've honed over years, or is that something that you've really, I mean, I know you've had other um times of grief and loss.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe can you talk a bit about that?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And also, so historically, um, that happened obviously when you were younger, but do you think there were things that you drew on internally that you had experienced then that you had it sort of resurfaced and you were like, right, I know this, I know what to do.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me a bit about that.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: So uh interesting, you know.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I have not had uh a particular particularly easy life.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've had an incredible life, I've had huge highs, huge successes, huge excitement, but I've had huge loss, you know, a bit like Biden.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I'm prepared to myself.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love that political, I love that.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: We won't go there.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, I love him, by the way.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, yeah, I I lost my brother and my father uh, you know, when I was 18 in a plane crash, which is pretty extraordinary, you know.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I mean that was kind of like I was at Northwestern University, I was studying drama, um, and um I got a call to say that that my father loved to fly, he was a pilot, and that his plane had disappeared on a skiing accident with my young brother.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I went into it's very interesting, Deborah, when people are confronted with news that is so huge, you often you like in a movie.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're in a movie that you know, and you don't even cry, you just don't, you just go, oh, okay, well, I think plane disappeared.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: All right, well, that's cool, we'll find them.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like it does, it doesn't register because it's just so it's so out of what you would ever expect to happen to you.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the way that I dealt with it as an 18-year-old was uh went into complete and utter uh warrior mode.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I am.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a warrior.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: So you're you know what I mean?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like I mean, I I got this, I got this, and went to school and got my good marks and got made a big career for myself.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, that comes back to bite you because ultimately, if you don't deal with the grief, it's gonna come out in some form.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it did, it came out in extraordinary anxiety, which is something that I struggled with for many years, terrible anxiety, until I finally dealt with that, and which I finally did.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: I went to a trauma workshop and finally dealt with that aspect of my life.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: But when this time happened, once again I went into warrior mode, but I I grieved.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, with the death of a child, is it doesn't ever, I realize it doesn't ever go away.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: You just learn to live with it.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's something you learn to live with and you learn to navigate.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully you can make choices that this is how you want your life to be.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want it to become your life, you want it to be the part of your life that's there, and of course, colors your life, but it doesn't become your whole life, you know?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's such a good piece of advice.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, as you know and I know that there are several people uh in our circle that have lost children and people in the last six months, actually, which is quite surreal.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you've always been this extraordinary wealth of wisdom in terms of some of the things that you've you've um taught me, certainly, learning um from what you've been through, but also to impart to other people.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say to uh somebody who has lost somebody close to them?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: As you say, you've learnt to grieve and to allow that grief to rise up and not to try and block it and to not just be a worrier, even though that's your initial response.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: This time you learnt to really just let it all in, yeah?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and to what what you tell me in your words, I mean, what are your thoughts around that?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: What would you advise somebody who is struggling with the loss of somebody?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's so many aspects uh to it.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, first of all, you have to come to peace with it.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, there's that phase of grief where you bargain.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can't help it.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: You bargain.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: You go, well, what if I'd done this?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Or what if they didn't take that road?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or what if I'd put him into some Buddhist monastery for eight years?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or what if I'd, you know, you start to bargain so that somehow you can keep him alive again.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, you have to come to peace with maybe there is a bigger power out there, maybe there is a reason why your child was here for a short time.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's something that they wanted to impart that you need to now take and carry on.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: I like to celebrate my son, celebrate the extraordinary person he was.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I will always, I think you should talk about your child, I think you should celebrate your child, you should put your child in conversations.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, don't tuck it away somewhere.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's so important for us grieving moms to do that.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's no easy answer to it, but I read a lot of books about grief.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: I followed a lot of other people's journeys, uh, moms that made it through the other end.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've listened to a lot of podcasts.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love to find inspirational people and take something from that.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: What's one little tidbit that might help me?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm on grief sites.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really important to share with like-minded people.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's a very good point.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you feel part of a community and you don't feel that while it's a solo journey on one hand, but on the other, maybe just knowing that other people have gone on that journey and also that people can survive it.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that's a very important thing and can live a good, full life.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's one thing that you've really demonstrated, and I know you're still on that journey, but I think you're a really amazing example of that.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're so inspiring.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: As you know, as you as you spoke about, Devra, we did we've done this anti-boy project.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's really helped me in the last year.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I from us, we've been very lucky because my son left behind a huge body of work with his music, his poetry, um, his album that had been finished.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we decided to take that and to create this incredible legacy, anti-boy legacy, which you spoke so beautifully about, you know, what it all meant, what it represented.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Harry was gender fluid.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: He struggled a lot because of it.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: When he was growing up, that was not as acceptable as it is now in the media.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we're trying to bring a lot of attention to that through beauty and celebration in the arts, you know, and Harry's music, Harry's music videos.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: That gave me a year, a year of constantly feeling him, touching his presence, hearing his voice and his music.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: I so do.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so brilliant.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I must say.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's over, and I'm going, what now?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what now?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Will I free fall?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Will I, or will I find another way to continue on?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I went to see a healer, and she said to me, she didn't know anything.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: She just said, This project that you're working on, take your time.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: The answers will come.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Harry, she said, your son said, take your time.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope you know anything about it.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Extraordinary time, you know.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: That legacy is also, and and what you've created with Anti Boy and first of all, it's there forever.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the and it's the most extraordinary homage to your son and to Harry.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: But but one thing I've noted is you you see the power of creativity almost like it's that's the biggest thing in your toolbox, really, isn't it?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that you're very good at tapping into.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And as you say, that's a blessing.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And this journey has been it's been a year.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I mean, even just the the response you're getting online, the streams I was looking quite, quite it resonates clearly with a lot of people.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh yeah.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we we have big uh plans for it, you know, we we have huge visions for it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, we were hoping like his last music video premiered on paper magazine on the cover of the Digital magazine, which was huge.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Huge.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then so now we kind of are looking to the next stage, which uh we've got some some exciting things coming, but we just don't know how we're gonna do it all yet.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: But it always it'll it will settle.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Let's look because this has only come out this week.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it does come out this week, so I'm gonna relax.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Christmas is coming, you know what I mean?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and you Sam's coming, so your other son, Sam's coming for Christmas, yeah.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that's exciting.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's beautiful, he is so beautiful.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: He's a very creative, brilliant boy who was in the shadows of his younger brother, who was uh, you know, a very chaotic young boy.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think now he's in a weird way, he's he's able to fully express his own creativity, you know.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's a very good point, actually.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I can see that.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously he's been involved creating the video, and that's quite extraordinary.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: You've got such talented children, but not surprising with your talent.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, Jane, tell me a little bit about um how you got into acting and the Hollywood years.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: You had some extraordinary success in the early days too, and I want to hear all about that.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Where did it all start for you?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I graduated from university, went to New York.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I always knew I wanted to go to New York, even though I had lived in New Hampshire at the time.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Went to New York and I was super lucky.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like I went around with my resume and I put it under a lot of doors, and one agent said, Come over here.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, she started sending me out on commercials.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And within a month, I'd gotten my first national TV commercial for American Airlines.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and all I had to do was go like this.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: American Airlines.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I might have like seriously have said it a thousand times.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was so nervous.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and then I don't know, I became Miss Commercial.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like I did everything from you know, Play Tech's bra to Oil of Olay to, you know, English leather.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: I did um, you know, Hertz Rent a Car with OJ Simpson.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: I did a bank commercial with Bob Hope, you know, I was like the it commercial girl, you know?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was really great.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then that led to um doing soap operas.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I did uh two soap operas, One Life to Live, then I did The Doctor's, where I acted with Alec Baldwin for a year.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I played his kind of dysfunctional lover.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we never got to kiss, sadly.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I was gonna say, was he gorgeous?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: How was he to work with hot?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: He was so hot, not like now, middle-aged.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I am telling you, I had such a crush on him, and he was a bad boy, you know.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: He was yes, I believe he was from what what I've read.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: But um, it sounds like it was quite an interesting journey.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And uh shame you didn't get to kiss, but whatever.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, I did kiss him a little bit, but I had such a crush.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: He liked this other girl more than me.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, but he was he was uh, you know, a very good act, a very good actor, even at a young, that very young age.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: So then anyway, I was doing uh the doctors, I was shooting the Arad Extra Dry commercials, and someone said to me, Oh, we have an audition for you out in LA.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and though in those days, they used to fly you first class, uh, put you up in the best hotels to audition you for these roles.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it was very different times then.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: There was like an abundance of money, right?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: So um I got flown out to LA and I went to a hotel room, and there was Kenneth Johnson, and I auditioned for V.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the next morning, I know literally I went back to my room that night, I got a note under the door and it said, Don't leave town.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Don't leave town! Yay! Don't leave town! I got this, I got this because I knew I'd only done daytime.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: My dream was to do nighttime, you know?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: So the next day I was in prosthetics.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: They were making like a fake head, they were putting a big clay thing on my head, and um, yeah, the next thing I know, I'm shooting V.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought at the time, eh, you know, it's a mini-series.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: I had five scenes.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Little did I know it was going to become bigger than roots, you know, one of the biggest mini-series of all times ever.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and we did a second mini-series, and then we did a series.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it was um, it was a real life-changing experience.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And like you had said, I went on Johnny Carson and David Letterman, and I was on the cover of People magazine.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was like I just erupted into this kind of moment of stardom.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, you still have really crazy avid fans.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Your fandom is actually surreal.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: You did Comic-Con, didn't you?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: The call.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't you?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Was it this?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, your role as Diana, people like are literally obsessed, and there's this whole fan base that just follow Diana still.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I gather that so with Diana, that role, you did some pretty creepy, funny things.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, can you talk to me about that?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was strange animals.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: The only other person that was kind of there was Joan Collins.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: She was also acting at the same time as me on, I guess it was uh Dynasty.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, and I was the other evil person on television at that time.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what people loved was that I was really sexy, young, but I was so evil, like, you know, like had no morals at all.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, my diet consisted of, you know, weird little bugs and guinea pigs, and nothing I wouldn't eat.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I was my my appetite was insatiable for men, women, it didn't matter.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I would just shoot people at the whe at a whim, you know, and I think people just like really got off on all that, you know.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: They it was just a really popular character, and I had a super good time playing it, you know.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's even a scene where you wrap a bow and stricter around your neck, isn't it, or something?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it that was in Mission Impossible.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that was Mission Impossible, that's right.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, because there's some I've seen those photos.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Very brave Jane.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, after after that was over, you know, it was weird.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I kept getting I got cast right away in a TV movie with Michelle Phillips from Mamas and the Papas and a whole other like very well-known actors.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: We got put in a TV movie, but I had no time to prepare, and I played the same role again because once again I was cast as an evil, beautiful woman.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I played a similar role, and you would not believe how fickle Hollywood is.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because of that, I got no job offers after that.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that's interesting.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: So the idea of typecasting and being stuck in a particular mold is very real.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you experienced it.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And even though you could ride the highs of that, what you found is that then, I mean, if you wanted to pay play something sweet and angelic, that was probably not where you were going to be cast.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think you just have to, if you, if you, if you're smart enough, I was young and I didn't my my agents were not the best agents.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I um ICM tried to uh get me to sign with them, and my own agent slammed the door and said, You're not leaving.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I never left my kind of average agent to go to the top agent.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: And there were a lot of things that were conspiring at that point to get me to the next level, which would have been films and features, and do you know what I mean?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, had I stuck it out in Hollywood, I'd I came here after I'd done another very big series, Mission Impossible, and things were again firing up for me.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I fell in love and uh I was in my 30s at that point, and I wanted to have a child, and I that's the love of my life, so I made that choice.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, what am I gonna do?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna stay in Hollywood, uh, and I've done it.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: I sort of did Hollywood, yeah.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Or will I, you know, explore love?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Will I explore this, you know?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's really and and for you, do you think back in that?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that it would have been the era, the height of a lot of the Hollywood uh disturbing behavior, and you know, it was quite a misogynist environment, clearly.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, was that something you saw?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and how did you navigate that?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because you were young and beautiful, and you know, it was what the 80s.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, oh yeah, boy did I see it.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about Me Too.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: I have so many Me To's, you know.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, young in Hollywood, um, I had a lot of very successful men, uh, well-known, very successful men who totally wanted to put me up in apartments and take care of me and um just really um make my life easy for me.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then directors that I was working with who would be relentlessly at me, or my acting teacher at university who made it very clear if I didn't sleep with him, I'd get kicked out of class, which I did, I was kicked out of class.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's not new.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is not new.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I can promise you that any young woman who uh has been through this system has has had to deal with that.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: That is that is just part of it, you know.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so do you think it is actually changing as a result of me too, or do you think that that you think it is now uh uh be very scared?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think those men are gonna have to get there.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: So scared, so scared.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're they're they're very fearful.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not to say that men still don't.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think men are afraid now to do anything, you know, change in men, you know.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I just I think it's good.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's good that it happened.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I just accepted it.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was just the way it was.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, not that I ever was assaulted or nothing like that ever happened, but you know, that that ongoing sort of continual attention from people in powerful places, um, after a while wears away at your own self-confidence as a person.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: You start to believe, well, I what am I worth if I don't um, you know, get it.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Accommodate.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's very, very challenging, and I think, but I'm hoping for the next generation it's changed or is changing.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me, Mission Impossible.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you land in Australia, like how surreal?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're on the other side of the world.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: I came out to Australia in the mid 80s for the Logies.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was a presenter at the Logies, they flew me out first class.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: I stayed at the best hotels.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: That was my first time in Australia, '85.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I I loved, loved the Australian man.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because at that time I was boy crazy, full on.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved them.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was a star.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I met this rugby player, and oh my god, did I have fun?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: He was, you know, very famous rugby player.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: I won't say his name.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so I did the circuit, lots of, you know, kind of, you know, radio shows.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then I presented with um Hargreaves.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: You remember?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he's a famous actor.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: He died.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, I know who you mean.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: He was that, you know, he was a um, I think he had a bit of a drinking problem.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: But when we presented, he was very drunk.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say that.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: I remember me being this misjudgmental, going misjudgmental.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Standing at the podium, he could hardly say the lines.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was like this Hollywood actress who'd been flown in, you know, going, Welcome to Australia.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Please, the Oscars?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, please, now we do the logies.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you so you land in Oz, you're up on the Logie podium, you're meeting everyone, you you know, you've arrived from Hollywood.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you and Steven actually end up meeting each other?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Stephen and I didn't meet until later because when I went home, I you know, I was still seeing that rugby guy.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I went home, and then about four years later, lo and behold, I land a job that takes me to Queensland to shoot for six months, Mission Impossible.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the second season was shot in Melbourne, and the first week, Toddy Goldsmith did a did a guest star, and she invited me to Redheads, where Steven was, you know, at her birthday party.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was there in the sequence, because I didn't know Redhead was some divy place with sawdust on the sequence with like two young men, you know, Hollywood star with my big trailer.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I walk in like this, and Steven was at the bar, and someone introduced us, and I was going, and everyone kept going, no, he's a catch, he's a catch, right?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: So as I was leaving, we just started kissing.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't even know him.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: I went, excuse me.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we just started like kissing.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, Call me.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Where do you live?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: I said, the hotel combo.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love that story.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: And Redheads, your description of Redheads back in the 80s, which we all used to go to.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: I actually love because it so was not what you'd call it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't Studio 54.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we went to a birthday party.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: I thought get glamorous, like in Hollywood, you know, with the sequence.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a what?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then so you met Stephen there, and the rest is history, as we say.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: What a life.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: What a life, you know.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a crazy life, you know, really.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's been great, though.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm um I'm happy.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: I just couldn't even get the words out when I said happy.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: I am happy I made that choice.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm trying to say.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me a bit about what how Australia has resonated with you and and what it is you love about it, and also what you miss about New York, because I know you miss a lot.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean, I'm very happy to be here now.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: New York is not uh the city that it was, but it will be again.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, New York's my favorite city in the world, other than you know, Melbourne, my home.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: But um I grew up in New York and uh my career, I started my acting career in New York as an actress.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I love I love the street life.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love walking, I love that you could walk out on the street and walk and walk and walk for just hours on the street and see so many different things and shops and people, galleries and yeah, cells, and I mean you don't even have to have a plan for the day.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can just kind of go on a journey, you know?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I like that.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: I really like uh a street city that you can get out on the streets and walk.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and of course, it's my heritage.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, all my my family's there, my cousins, my aunts, my sister, my niece.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they all live there.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: So of course it's um I'm half Aussie and I'm half New York, you know?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And what does Aussie give you?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: What is that what does the Australian culture give you?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because you obviously have thrived here.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: You've been here for over 30 years, so long time.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, and this is, I mean, I hope this isn't gonna be like, you know, uh any kind of statement that people kind of woo.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: But but honestly, I I've got my inspiration mostly, I have to say, from America.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: That that's where I'm mostly inspired in the arts.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: I and I think we have extraordinary talent here.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: But if I'm looking to great acting teachers, you know, um, or or great filmmakers, uh, well, there's very good filmmakers here, but they usually go there.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think normally I I I found that during COVID I could study with some very great teachers because I was not, you know, because they're not able to do it in person.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I had access to some great teachers.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I find it here, you can actually do anything you want.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's much easier here to say, well, I'm gonna make a film or I'm gonna do this, because people are looking here for something.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can find extraordinary talent here.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to be the one to pool it together, like the way you're doing your podcast, or I'm doing the short film in in uh January, I'm producing a short film, and um, you know, we're getting together an incredible team.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you can be the one who inspires as well.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's and I'm at the age now where that's what I want to do.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and it's interesting you say that because if you like look at all the the movie, the movie productions that are coming to Australia right now, there's a sort of a transformation which hopefully will rebuild you know the industry here.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you look, you know, up in Byron, they're shooting two or three films, the Gold Coast.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's interesting because there is a transformation happening.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a question of um to what degree.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: And as America's in such a state of crisis politically and in every sense, and with COVID just being, you know, 200,000 cases a day, Australia's looking like, you know, a complete utopia, to be honest, isn't it?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy to be here.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the thing about Australia is the food, let's face it, the freshness, the restaurants, the chefs.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, America doesn't really have uh fine dining like this, you know, beautiful food.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's healthy here.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: You get a beautifully healthy lifestyle.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: People don't work quite as hard.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Americans are very, very driven.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Americans are crazy, you know, they've got that element of insanity, especially in New York.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's very much in New York.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're all they're all crazy.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: But it's interesting, you've obviously found a piece here.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh like I actually was looking, I mean, you and Stephen have been married 30 plus years.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be it'll it's 29 and it'll be 30 on December 23.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: 30 December, that's right, yeah.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to me a little bit about um that.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have this beautiful relationship, he's a very special man, I know.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me what you've learned about love because I think you're a romantic.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was like a crazy girl, you know, when I met him.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was a in, I mean, I'm very different now.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was, you know, an actress in LA, and um, you know, I'd had an incredible career, and I was pretty, I was pretty kind of crazy.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: I loved men.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: I loved uh, you know, I was I loved going out.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: I went out with a lot of you know interesting men in my time.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I think I'm I'm not that person anymore.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not that crazy young, wild creature, you know, and I'm married 30 years.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean love is love is an interesting thing, you know.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Love may not be the great passion.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think it has to start with the great passion, and then I think it tempers into something else that when you're young, you go, ew, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to not have passion, you know, where I can wait to get home and really close.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: But now when I'm sitting at this end of it, I go, this is so fabulous.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like the most comfortable bed that you lie in, you know.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: That analogy is brilliant.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy, you know.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Small talk, I can read my book, you know.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's very true.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's what I've noticed.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: You guys are so comfortable with each other.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: And whatever life has thrown you, good and bad, you have this wonderful, just he's always got that little twinkle in his eye as he looks at you.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just that little, you know, you know, and that's something you have a great mutual respect, I can see, for what he does, and him for what he he he lets you fly.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that's very much the secret is allowing each other to grow and be who you need to be?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and we've talked about this.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you and I are the, you know, our husbands are quite more reserved and surfer, and and I'm the one who loves to travel and I love exciting new projects, and I'm always looking for something that's gonna take me into some dangerous place.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mean like physically.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, out of your comfort zone.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like something that's gonna scare me and then I can't sleep all night.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm you know like he's like, I really you gonna do that?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, okay, off you go five.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like a proof to him because the first year he goes, I'm not sure about that.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then I do it.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, Oh, yeah, that is pretty good.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's good.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's good I have him, you know.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was like a really, really successful Hollywood actress when I met him.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was going off a very big TV series, and um, you know, I'd had a real kind of interesting Hollywood life.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: So moving here was definitely um, you know, a big, big change for me.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm very glad that I made that change, you know?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so are we.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Very glad you're here too.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, another thing I just wanted to touch on you are a very generous person, not just as a philanthropist, but with your time and you do what you can to help others, and I've seen that close up.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're always looking out for people, and often it's the underdog or someone who's struggling, like, you know, you'll talk to me about things, or I'll see you do things, and it's very not necessarily on a public stage.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you think that empathy comes from?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think for a long time I lived with judgment.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was judgmental of others.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I think that was um a defense mechanism.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think when people are judgmental, they have defenses up.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was my way of surviving.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: If I would see someone in the street who was homeless and I would go, oh, well, obviously, you know, they've made some huge mistakes, or you know, I would kind of walk, I wouldn't want to know from it, which I think a lot of people are like that.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I think after my own son struggled with addiction, and I started to see how close he was to homelessness, that every time I would see a homeless young person, I would think to myself, that could be my son in a blink of an eye.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Just because my son had beautiful parents, because he was brilliant, my son could be that child just because he has a brain imbalance.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then everything changed for me.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like every time I see a homeless person, I talk to them.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: I go, What, you know, how are you?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, suddenly the stigma of it went away.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I guess that was the beginning of me being much more compassionate and much more understanding that at any time anything can happen to any one of us.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: There, for the grace of God, go I.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I like to help young people.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: I like to help young people that are struggling.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: I really do.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: If I can make a difference in anyone's life, um, it makes me feel good.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: And how little does it take for me, who has so much abundance, you know, to do care packages for some of our friends who don't have a lot.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: I might put groceries together for them once a week.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: What does that take out of my time?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's something you've always been involved.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you're involved with the Lighthouse Foundation too, and you've done some great work there and support.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's interesting, because yeah, you do, and just on a personal front, I've seen you do things in a very private way, but to help others.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something I really respect and admire.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm interested that you that there's been that transition and growth for you, and that in a way, that's another thing that Harry and his journey has opened up for you is you've seen another side of the world that you may not have seen.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to ask you, you're very involved with the arts.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, we've been to some amazing shows together, and you've shown me some incredible people.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you think the arts can recover from this COVID crisis?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: And where do you do you think is it going to flourish again?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Are we going to be back watching all those extraordinary theater shows and plays and operas and ballets?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, what are your thoughts on that?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: We totally will.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: I have no doubt.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've I've heard a lot of people have been so negative about everything that happened.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: And but I mean, look, honestly, it's terrible.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's a terrible thing.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's the arts have definitely suffered a huge blow, as had has have many, many you know, places in society and people.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: But the arts will flourish again just because artists are so resilient, we are so creative, we will act in a little, you know, guivey place under the building.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: We'll find a freeway, we'll find foliage to do something, you know.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: I put some crazy song on my Facebook and I was going like this, you know.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that's art.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like artists will they will find a way through this and we will come back.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I love to hear that.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: On that note, what are you listening to music-wise?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: What would you could you recommend for our listeners something that you're really loving at the moment or that you loved in the past?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: An album, a performer.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I definitely want everyone to check out my son's album, which was just released uh yesterday called Glitch in Paradise, um, which is absolutely beautiful.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's it's uh an essay on tortured love and uh the games that you play in your mind and connectivity, and it's just beautiful.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm listening to that.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also listening to the new music that we're working on in the studio.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we've just added choirs to some songs for my son's upcoming album.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I've been listening to.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: But can't we?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, other than that, um, that sort of takes up.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I listen to Spotify like everybody, you know.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always on that.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: I love I love music.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're always listening to something, like souls, you know?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, something to just shellac.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me, and also you are an avid reader, I know this because we're always sharing book ideas.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so tell me what are some of your top, some of the books you could recommend for our listeners at the moment that you're loving.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm gonna recommend a couple of fiction and non-fiction books.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: First, I will say um, you know, fiction.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, two of my favorite books ever were Blonde by Joyce Carroll Oates, who is one of my all-time favorite writers, American writer.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: And Blonde is a mammoth book, but it's about Marilyn Monroe.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not just about Marilyn Monroe, it's about the psychological and internal things that were going on with her.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: And she kind of takes liberties with the facts, but it is completely riveting.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot put it down.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, I have to get that.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: I want to get that.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Blonde.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the other one that I think for me, A Little Life, um, which I don't know if you've ever read that, Deb, A Little Life.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was a very big book by a Japanese American writer.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was the most extraordinary book I ever read, extremely dark, about four or five school friends from university and what happens to their lives.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the main character, Jude, is a very, very troubled dark character.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it takes you into a very dark path, but it is exquisite.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: That is definitely on our book list.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I'm very that's an old book, like maybe five years old now.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: And with um, you know, nonfiction, um, The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer, uh, and the power of now.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: And those are the two books that when I was going through my very roughest times, it got me to sleep, and it seriously helped me through my crises.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I could have done it without Michael Singer.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he gave me a whole new perspective of looking at life, looking at the planet, and looking at my consciousness.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: And somehow I was able to navigate things a lot better.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I would definitely recommend those books as well.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that was The Power of Now by Eckhart Chal.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is that yeah, that's an amazing book.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting though, because look at how powerful our books and our literature and our arts and our music, it's so powerful in terms of healing.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: It really, as you say, it really changed your lens on the world and what you were dealing with.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it really helped me.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, really helped me.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think people should know that there's power.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's power in words, there are power in these spiritual leaders that have gone before us who can really help guide us, you know.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Jane, it's been, as always, an absolute pleasure to have you on at the What I've Learnt podcast.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely love chatting to you.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Very excited about all the wonderful projects that you're working on.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can't wait to see what's next.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: So take care.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Quick, Dave.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: But we can talk later.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: I adore you.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, bye, gorgeous.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you've learned as much as I have.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: The What I've Learned Podcast will now be coming to you weekly, with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: And a subscription is the easiest way to have it downloaded straight into your pocket.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show, so check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: For more stories or an opportunity to tell your own, please visit my website at mindfilmpublishing.com.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, stay tuned, stay kind, and of course, stay curious.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: Love Tip.