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90: Youpie Toons - Part 2 · Coconut Justice

• Youp: I thought, man, I'm not cartooning, but now I'm using all that knowledge for my cartooning. So I will also be in the future making a little package anyone can download this to how can I get my art shown? Like what are the things Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): cool. Youp: yeah. Right, so not every the that should all listen if the art and the tools are free, so should the knowledge of how to promote yourself. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I mean if you want to keep your Youp: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): chi clear Youp: And and also if you want to see more cartoons, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Exactly. Youp: There's so many great cartoonists and filmmakers who are just not being discovered because they haven't figured out the algorithm yet. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And there's a lot of people that just don't want to do social media 'cause social media is all up in your business. Everybody's all up in your business. Youp: I really understand that. And I and I've talked to some people who are like, I don't like social media. I'm like, then find someone who does, so you can do your art and partner with someone who gets it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: It's like like like like that's how you get your art out there or your course out Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: there, name like and here's the thing: there are many social media experts who make a business out of it, right? partner with someone who just started their social media business. Right? Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Or hire your kid. Your kid is on social media, hire him. Put to work. Youp: You're actually so right. You're actually so right. Yep. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. You wanna you wanna iPhone? All right, cool. We're gonna get you an iPhone, but you're running dad's animation social media. Youp: Well I hope I then I might be careful when I have children one day to not start like child labor in my studio. we just see we see a honey, we need another child. I need another social media. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): There's a little bit of child labor that's still there's a little bit of child labor that's still legal. There's a little bit. Youp: I'm pushing all these all other twist looking kids like taking pictures of our animation. man, man. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Then then then, you know, if they don't do their work you can send them you can send to their room. Go to your room. Do all the social media, Youp: Yeah. And learn to draw. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): dammit. Youp: What what do you room and draw? But Dad I'm joking, I don't condone that. Obviously unhinged cartoonist humor. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah. How did you learn grease pencil? Youp: By hitting my head against a screen for a year. No, I'm sorry. I'm not kidding. It wasn't Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Get in their knowledge. Get in there. Youp: Yeah, it wasn't a ho it was a horrible uphill battle, but there are some wonderful, wonderful tutorials out there. CG Hitchhiker has released her tutorials on YouTube, unlike the basics of Grease Pencil. the then like I said before, Pepe Land has probably Also, a vibe like I learned Grease Pencil from him, because he made his first animated short in Grease Pencil to prove Grease Pencil is good for 2D animation. He proved it. and then we have other great like content creators and online animators making gorgeous, gorgeous stuff. You just have to look at the line, like Grease Pencil artists, and you'll be blown away with what people Who people I've looked up to for years. Like, man, if they made Blender work for their style, maybe one day I can too. Because that's the point. You have to find your own style, right? You can't just copy you know the people you you have to find your own way. And I I have to say, after eight years of working in Blender, I've only been working on classic cartooning for a year. But now I finally figure I'm just I haven't even found my style yet, I'm just playing with it. You'll notice my avatar is changing all the time. Like first I was a nerdy little guy with glasses and now I'm Napoleon. Like I'm I'm trying to figure out where my voice is. But I'm just having fun. Like there's no marketing team behind me like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: figuring like I'm mar I'm having fun with my own promotion. If I wanna be Napoleon, I can be Napoleon. No one's gonna stop me. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And and all that stuff that you've been sharing, all of that helps us connect with you. And we w now now because you're doing something so cool and you're sharing and and and I wanna see you finish this animation. I wanna be a maybe even be a part of it. Not not like animating or whatever, but like whether buy a t shirt or buy some stickers or you know do the Patreon, I don't know how you're raising money, but Youp: I I can say this because Mike Povani and I have been talking about how can we make sure our audience or followers benefit even more. Because right now I'm releasing one minute videos, but we were thinking about opening up a system where you can see live streams of us talking together and and Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ooh. Yeah. Youp: see and and basically you see the film getting made in real time. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: and may like maybe we're thinking of Patreon or something. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Youp: And we're thinking keeping it really like affordable, right? Like maybe twenty-five bucks a month to Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Mm-hmm. Youp: see the entire process, but not only how classic cartooning gets made, but also how I use Blender, how I sell the file, how to download brushes. So if someone likes to follow me for my film and my film gets done, by the time I'm done my film, they'll know the entire production pipeline, how to make their own cartoons. I think I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And now they're again, they're emotionally connected to you and the and your success. That's a genius move. Youp: Well because I I think I I don't know if it's success. I think it's more because I how do I say this? Like in a I've gotten more satisfaction from sh having people say to me, Hey, because of you I'm making my own cartoon. Like I had some people Kids, young animators show me their cartoon animations in Blender. And and I know because Mauritz folk told me that when I promoted his brushes, fifteen thousand people downloaded his brushes. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ooooo wee. Youp: Which means that tells me that and this is before I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Tell him it's gonna be fifteen thousand and one when we're done here. Youp: You are I I think that number has gone up, but what that tells me, and I'm not saying the numbers I'm getting I'm I made it. No. It just proves that people want to make the same thing or they want to see the same thing get finished. So if they're not vanity metrics, if that makes sense. They're proof they're proof for everybody out there that there's an audience for this art form that in my opinion the industry has abandoned or cheated. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, I agree. Youp: if they're not making it, like I said before, w why n we can just make it? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Exactly. There the way I see it is that. Like I like to think that I'm a a conscious capitalist. Right? Right. I Youp: Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): do things to survive. but I see a market. I see a market that there that that people really do connect with hand drawn animation. People really do connect with artists. Artists, Youp: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): people f people forget this, but artists like illustrators used to be looked at like rock stars. They used to be invited to these to the night to the late night shows and stuff, you know. so there's that whether it's nostalgia, whether it's envy, whatever it is, people connect to what we're trying to do, and there's a market for it. And again, Coyote versus Acme is just the latest proof. That people really do love this art form. Youp: N not only that, but the c the artists who helped build this style, like the people who worked at the Disney Renaissance, because we have to think before the Disney Renaissance animation was in a tight spot, like Bluth saved it, right? But then when it went back into the Renaissance, these people who built the Disney Renaissance are still alive. They can still teach, they're still ready to do that. So if we wait anymore, we're gonna be in a position to go, crap. Anyone know how to do classic car animation? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, and that's yeah, that's so and like I told my three D friends, hey, you're a solar flare away from from losing your job. Like we're gonna be drawing in caves if we keep going down this path. And I'm gonna be ready to be painting on cave walls. I just I don't wanna lose that that connection to our history. Youp: You just said something again that I feel really passionate about. It's almost a duty now to make sure that this art form that America started, the American classic cartoon, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: standard is uphold upheld. and and I feel people like the people who worked in the Day The Earth Blew Up and the Acme Coyote vs Acme, they're desperately trying to keep it together. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: But if studios are trying to cancel the movie for a tax write off, then in a way, maybe we shouldn't give them our business if they're not respecting the property that we love. At least that's how I feel. Like that's why I cancel my Disney Plus. I'll re I'll I'll I'll sign up to Disney Plus again when I see another hand drawn cartoon on Disney. When I see another the last one was The Princess and the Frog. I'm still waiting for Then I'll sign up. I'll I'll I'll be the first to sign up to Disney Plus again if you're like, hey, we're doing classic cartooning again. And that's what I'm saying. Just Disney makes so much money, right? With Disneyland. Just give Eric Goldberg twenty K twenty million dollars. Give his team and just have them just make a movie a year, like in the Renaissance, and you'll be Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Youp: fine. Like a new Renaissance can easily be made like that. Easily. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Did you ever did you ever follow up with I can't remember the name of the artist right now, but the name of the property was Hullabaloo? Youp: Ooh I am Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): He's an old I wanna say he's he's one of those old I wanna say Disney animators. and he he I wanna say I I wanna say I kicked in on the Kickstarter 'cause again I two D animation and Kickstarters are are my kryptonite. Youp: Let me let me talk about Hollabaloop Hollow. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hullabaloo, yeah. They I've been following them, but I don't think they were drawing and drawing and drawing. I don't know if they ever finished that property. Youp: I saw this too. Gorgeous stuff. I saw it too. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: I was obsessed with this too for a long time. And steampunk, yeah. Gorgeous. Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. It's like steampunked, hand drawn. Yeah, it's beautiful. Youp: Yeah. That's the kind of projects I would love to see. And I hope that Blender just makes it a bit cheaper. Right? A lot cheaper. So it's free. I don't know how much more cheap you can get. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I mean it's free. Like s I don't know how much cheaper like Blender's gonna have to send everyone a check. Youp: How about the only one they should do? E every every time someone downloads Blender they should get an Apple like an Apple Mac in the mail. Like thanks for downloading Blender. Here's an Apple They can afford that then then they're no non profit. They survive off a donation. that's what I do wanna say that if you use Blender and you're making a company out of it or a film, I think it it's prudent also to donate to them. Because donation Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): One hundred percent. Youp: because donations keeps their team paid and it keeps the tools coming. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): percent. Youp: so I I do believe that is important. if you're if you're part of the ecosystem, give them Five dollars, ten dollars, whatever you can afford, right? Like give either Adobe a giant paycheck every month or give it to Blender. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I'm telling you that and if you're in animation, Youp: Yep. Isn't it? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): dug I hate that. I know I understand that Adobe is like a industry standard, all that stuff. I understand. But the price, Youp: I love listen, I love it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): the price to just show up is ridiculous. And like you said, Youp: I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): like you said, like Blender's doing not just software, but this is a new way of doing business. We're gonna give you the product for free. And if you're making money, wouldn't it be cool if you kept the lights on over here? Youp: Yes. And and and I and Blender really figured that out. And I and and and that's why I love this idea of the open source film studio. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: Everyone's sharing everything and everything is accessible and there is just sharing art, sharing films, and if someone's struggling with their film, they can just access the Blender community saying, Hey, what do I do? And that that eliminates tech support, right? Because in a big studio, I imagine there's some guy with bags under his eyes fixing everyone's Adobe and Toon Boom files. You know. But now there's a whole enthusiastic community that will just solve your problems for you, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): One hundred percent. And there's nothing better there's nothing better than like I've been a tech guy. I've been all the things and shout out to all of you guys. Thank you for doing Youp: Yes, yes. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): what you're doing. I pray that you get all the mountain dew that you ever ever want. I hope you I hope so. I hope I wish that for you. But there's nothing better Youp: I hope everyone checked that their computer is turned on before they call you. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): than Like if I'm struggling with something, I can reach out to you and you you'd be like, no, just like this. Then that way it takes Youp: Exactly. that's already happened. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): the load off of Blender and then that way you can get your developers to keep working on this dope Youp: And and also Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): ass software. Youp: and also in my opinion, like I've had lots of like animators now contact me, like, how do I import the brushes you recommend? So I just quickly record my screen, do it, there you go. Takes me five minutes. It that's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): With that, with that, that's another part of the of 'cause you're everybody, Yupe is looking to move into YouTube and I'm gonna have all the links all the links possible in the description of this video. So please follow up with them. But making a video and putting it on your YouTube channel says this is how you do this with these brushes, then that way. Hmm? Youp: Unfortunate this this is something I would say about the YouTube. The reason I haven't started it yet, because doing an animated cartoon and promoting it on Instagram, it's too much work right now. But luckily I have a team building, so when things are moving more, I can then instead of doing these bite-sized Instagram videos, I can do long format videos on YouTube for free. So this is how I'm planning on structuring if a patron ever comes. You don't have to pay for the Patreon to learn how to make cartoons. That's I'm doing that all for free. But if Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: you wanna know the nitty gritty of how I'm personally making it with the animation choices like what Mike Bolvani is gonna that, you know, then I can survive and I can, you know, we can pay each other and we can make more cartoons. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Sure. Right. Youp: that I think is fair because then you're not gatekeeping, but you're still figuring out a way to profit off your art. we'll see if that works or not. I don't know. but I'm comfortable. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And the cool thing is that there's no wrong way to do it. You try it and you try Youp: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): something else. It just like just like the animation process. Youp: I'm I'm expected to mess up a lot of times. I'm expected to maybe set up the Patreon and get feedback and do it like this. Okay. Just change it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. And that's what's cool about the the community. This is a one of the big reasons why I loved Flash as much as I did was the community. Youp: I don't love it. I see. All the great YouTube animators like Harry Partridge, Oni Ng, who made this cartoons where I was just laughing my ass off when I was in middle school. I they were like the nine old men to me. I'm like, you Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: got another cartoon out, like you know. And they were just like Eagle Raptor cartoons. Like, you know, there's like they're they have a place in animation history. They really, really do. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: but if they had the tools that we have now, right? Like with the 3D stuff, it's just really cool that they were the pioneers really to start independent cartooning on YouTube. And and the fact that it can now look almost cinematic, like Hollywood quality. It you I think it's understandable that some people are maybe hesitant like that software is too difficult for me to learn. Like that's that's for the newer generation. I would push back on that because Blender You don't have to learn everything in Blender. You can just learn the t de grease pencil two D part, ignore the other ninety-five percent of the software and just use it for it is, it is. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. The plunder's so amazing. It really is. Youp: Even if you download Blender, there's even a menu saying do you want to work in three D or two D? Two D. It opens Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: up, it's your timeline, your layers, you can figure it out. At least it was better Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm. And even the three D, even the three D. I did I did a animated film, Don't Box Me In. and and when I learned how to do squash and stretch, my god, it was so the squash Youp: I would love to see your film. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and stretch in there is so, so powerful. Youp: Look at what CG Hitchhiker is doing with her 3D characters. Cause that's that's like UPA animation, like Hanna Bar, like really simplified characters but super elastic and stretchy. It's really exciting and she's showing her entire progress too, how she does it, how she rigs it. So she's also sharing that. Yeah, right. So it's right. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah. community, the community. Community is makes it makes it so worth it. And the crazy thing is Youp: Yeah, because here's the thing. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): there's literally nobody else doing anything like this. Youp: no, there's very few people. Blender right Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): There's blender grease pencil and Youp: 3D. Which one? Sorry? you froze. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I said there's there's there's nothing like grease pencil out there. Youp: Mm. It it's not a vector. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Nobody's doing it. Nobody's making it. Youp: Actually, let me talk one thing because this might make people even more excited. Grease pencil is not a bitmap or a vector line. if I can describe it in a horrible way, there are way better people Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: that describe it better. But you know what a mesh is, right? Like what Woody is made out of, right? And meshes are all connected by vertices. So if that's one vertice, another vertice, another vertice, congratulations, you made a line. That's Grease pencil. So What can you do with a mesh? You can sculpt it, right? Sculpt 3D. So you can go into Blender and sculpt your drawing. So if I have a drawing and my and I show you in my videos, if there's a character screaming, I'm like, I didn't push this expression far enough. Instead of deleting it, take the freaking sculpt brush and stretch the drawing, make the eyes bigger. And and in less than ten seconds, I re-sculpted a whole new drawing. And that is new. That is actually the superpower of Blender and why it's so great for classic cartooning, because classic cartooning is all about distortion and smear frames. And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. It's scientifically impossible stuff. Youp: Yeah, I've tried doing it. I've tried many a hours trying to get my eyeballs out of my head and it's it's it's harder than it looks. You can do it in Blender though. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): No, what you do is you plug your nose in your mouth and you blow like really hard. Your eye's start getting loose. Youp: Step on a Lego piece. You step on a Lego piece and then and then and then and then the eyes come out. I snorted, that's attractive. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ha. Youp: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): we we Youp: We have we're over two hours, but I'm open to keep talking if you are, 'cause I I hope Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Okay. Youp: it gives you as much content as you need, right? 'cause Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. No, I I'm actually more excited to like start following up with you and like downloading those brushes that you're talking about. and now that we've found each other, I definitely I would love to have you come back and talk more about your pro your progress. Youp: Yeah. I will either go it's going great or like I come like with a gray beard like I'm you aged fifty years in two months like cartooning's still hard. But Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): we're almost done. Youp: Just ten thousand more drawings. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: But the same thing you, I feel like I have a lot to learn from you from your I I've only I think I've only scratched the surface of what your career is, but I'm positive I have a lot to learn from you as well, with like how to set up, you know, maybe a campaign or how to set up anything. Because I'm trying to learn everything kind of on this what's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: the English expression? This this the seat of my pants. Let's see. Okay, I I got it. I got it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. Y Yeah, you're flying by the seat of your pants, yeah. Youp: wow, I'm always getting made fun of 'cause I mess up my sayings. That's good. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): The teasing and the joking actually got you squared away now. You're good. Youp: yeah, good, they're good. They bullied me in the correct path. Now I don't mess up on my English. No, I'm joking. but I I that's what I love about like this online community is that as long as you're willing to share, people will share with you and you can grow and that's in a way the new studio. That's in a way the new Hollywood, in a way, right? 'Cause Hollywood like for example, I didn't know this, but like I'm reading a bunch about Bob Clampett. He lived He lived in Hollywood and there's Chaplin playing the violin down the street with his brother. Like th that was their Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ain't that crazy? Youp: yeah, that was their community. Now it's online, it's ten thousand billion times bigger. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: It's all like Hollywood was only well, obviously they were trying to run from Edison because he was trying to break everyone's cameras, so only he was making only he was making films like, we'll go to LA, then he can't find us there. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): He's gonna be too scared. Yeah. Yeah. Youp: But Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That history, that film history too, where like people just keep backstabbing each other, trying to get a leg up on the competition and stuff like that. I'm glad I'm glad we're moving away from that. Youp: Well now it now if that goes online, you're not because everything is online now, everything's transparent. Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: like for example, like if I if I for example misbehave and act like a complete prick, I'm damaging my brand, I'm damaging my film. so now I have to pretend to be really nice all the time, which is really hard for Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: me. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I can't wait to be done with this conversation. I'm gonna get back to hating the world. Youp: Can't wait to build my empire and just underpay everybody. That's But yeah, like I said before, I think what is the most valuable t commodity an artist has, obviously besides taste and skill, it's being willing to be genuine. But one thing I do wanna say, 'cause I was like this, I was scared to post anything on social media. I posted blown apart because it was a product, it wasn't me. And I've I I I've only started posting three point five months ago because I was too terrified of what people would think, right? Like I was terrified, people would say, You don't know what you're doing. This is amateur stuff, right? Because that's what we fear. But as long as you're what I've learned, and I could be I'm just one person, but if you're if you're open and you're also saying, hey, I'm struggling. I'm a student. I'm not an expert. It absolves you of that status. Because everybody thinks that Instagram has to be you have to portray it to be successful. Remember Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: I told you about the guy with the car or with Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: that is done. People don't care about success, people care about genuine struggles and Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: connecting. So if there are Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And you as a person, not what you have, but who you are. Youp: I wouldn't be surprised if most of my followers didn't give a crap about my cartoon, but they liked seeing this wacky Dutchman, you know, drawn yeah, I wouldn't be surprised and that's fine. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: But what I'm trying to say is and I hope it comes across clearly, is that like if you stru if there's artism you struggle, like you're posting your art and it's not getting seen, you don't have to perform and do TikTok trends, right? Where you're Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I know. Tell please. Youp: Yeah, you just you just you just make a video, voice record, and say, Today I drew this, I'm happy with this, but the hands are not good. I'm gonna study I don't know, this person. You gave them a story, you gave them a hook, you gave them a I'm gonna I'm gonna go back to this Instagram artist because he said or they said he she they said they're going to study hands this week. I wanna know how they're doing and they can so it gives people a reason to come back. 'Cause it's it's actually very satisfying to see an artist grow or an an actor grow or a singer grow. It's it or anybody that's making stuff. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's yeah. You're you're planting seeds today that will grow tomorrow. And people will go back. Yeah, that that funny drawing that you did today that maybe didn't maybe didn't get everyone's attention. What's Youp: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): gonna happen is when you get to the point when you practice and you get really good at this and you start posting, people are gonna go back those original drawings that you did. will come back. Youp: That's the that's the value of the back catalog. So let's say you have eight hundred drawings that no one paid attention to, but then somehow the algorithm blesses you. Like you you sacrifice to the correct God, the the the the the star is aligned and the algorithm has favored you, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: then you then audiences will go back to your catalog and just and you'll watch your numbers go up. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: So just because you posted, man, I posted. X many drawings, I'm only Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: getting. don't think your art is a problem, but maybe consider talking more about who you are. Because what what AI has done, but I want your opinion on this because I think I think you I think you know a bit more about it than I do, because I I'm very ignorant when it comes to AI. But I'm very ignorant with a of things, except car except cartoons. Very valuable in cartoons, I hope, but anything else. but what I'm trying to say is, i if now I lost my train of thought. What was I saying again? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Damn, here we are. The backlog, yeah, yeah, yeah. Youp: Backl backlog. Backlog. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Keep drawing, the backlog is gonna Youp: I keep drawing. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): come back. Yeah. Youp: I forget. It's okay. Let's move on. It's gone. We're both the same. It's like, that was a that was an interesting topic. Guess we'll never discuss it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. That's one of the things that's one of the things doing this s side of the conversation. sometimes you lose you lose your track and you're just like, crap. But I've learned that if you just get back on, start talking, a lot of times Youp: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): our brains will pick that right back up and you're like, okay. That's what I was trying to think. Youp: Well how I appreciate how you structure your interviews, we're both passionate about it, so it becomes less like a script or less like and if you're passionate about something, your brain sometimes thinks faster than your mouth. And then you're like w so whatever. Whatever. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. I get stuck I get stuck painting the picture. I wanna tell you a story, but I have to paint the picture first, right? And then I get lost in the picture. I forgot what the what story I was gonna tell you. Youp: So you're hey, thanks for listening to the build up of my story for thirty minutes. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, the painting is beautiful. Youp: If you enjoyed the build up, I wish I could remember the point. Thanks for sticking around though, I appreciate it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Like, share, subscribe. Youp: Hoo but my I guess what I was trying to say, I remember this is I think I remember it's being don't not being afraid to show your struggle or your processes or man I suck at drawing feet. I'm gonna draw feet for the next four days. That's a journey, that's content, people will watch it. that's what I was gonna say. I remember now. Hi, you're so right. what AI has done is you can make anything with AI, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: But I have yet to see an AI artist be able to create that kind of content. They're not able to. Because how is that? Man, this prompt is hard. Right? Let me let me mm like that's not, you know, you're not it I'm not I'm not say like prompt prompting is I think a safe Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. that product was co and then you're right. You you you you say, no, not like that and you're like people are like what are you doing? You know? No not like that. Youp: Yeah, no not like this. Like this. You show something else and throw it in like that. Make me that. listen, I I think prompting is a skill on its own because like bad prompting, good prompts exist. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I agree. Writers if you're a writer, like a like a proper writer, you went to school for whatever whatever they call it these days. Who's to say you can't AI is is really good for building up whatever story you're trying to make. If you're not an illustrator, if you're not anything like that, it would help you bring your vision together and then you make a little package and you reach out to someone who actually does the thing that you are not all that good at. Youp: That is actually a really excellent I've seen a lot of people do that. A lot of people who I've worked with, they're like, this is like like for example, I did a I did a few commercials for for TV. one was with a baseball athlete, Olympic star, I forget his name though. like I said, names. But they showed me, we want this and they showed me a bunch of AI, but not like this. This is crap. We this is just us. This is short like a shorthand. I'm like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Showing you yeah. Youp: I'm like, okay, you want this? P perfect. Because you're still paying the artists. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: Then I then I really yeah, maybe the okay, the environment problem and everything else. Because A AI is has a myriad of problems that all needs to be solved. But at least that part of not taking over the artist's jobs has been not solved, but that's more respected. like I've had lots of not lots, but I've had some people even say, Hey, here's my character design. Can you bring it to the next level? Yep. And the the you know, then then I really don't see it because then at least you're being honest, like I'm not replacing you because you're obsolete now. That that that what I only have an issue with AI artists when they come across if you don't use this tool, you're gonna be left behind. Because that is a fear tactic marketing. That's fear, and Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: I I I really find that the most despicable form of marketing or propaganda where you're like learn like in ten years all you 3D modelers are gonna be out of a job. Who are you serving besides yourself and the billionaires who has the software, right? But if you package it like hey if you're a 3D animator and you model, you have no idea how many messages I got from Meshi. 3D three like, we'll pay you to do stuff. I'm like, guys, look at my stuff. It's all Tantron like having seen Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's strong. Youp: what I'm doing. But if you package AI, like hey, maybe AI can help you I'm I I don't know anything about AI, but if you're a three D modeler, you can still use AI without AI touching or influencing your three D model. Yeah, you're slower, but at your topology makes sense, right? Because that's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Right. Youp: a thing that three D, in my opinion, AI ha can't handle yet is proper topology to rig your characters up so they move properly. but They're gonna solve that too because everything they're solving Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: everything now. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Because everything like again, the for me, AI is kind of like just a plug in. Youp: It should be treated that as like a a a a a like not your right hand person, but I'm stuck. how do I unlock myself so I can get back to creating my art? I don't know. I'm not an expert. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And going back to and going back to dealing with clients and and clients leveraging AI, There's so many there's so many times, there's so many times I'm sitting across a table from a client and they say, Yeah, we're looking for this thing. We don't know we don't know what it looks like, but we we we'll know it when we see it. And I say, Okay, cool. So we can develop this visually and everything is gonna Yeah, yeah, yeah. But nobody has we know it when we see it money. Because we know Youp: But yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): it when we see it, that means I have to go to the drawing but literal drawing board and sit there and sketch and draw and sketch and draw and sketch and draw and sketch and draw. Youp: That was my job for the like ten eight years. I was the sketcher to figure out what the client wanted. That's that was I love doing that. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: it's that's changed now too. I I I let go of that career because everyone's now doing AI. And one thing I do want to talk about because I've seen some hopeful things with AI because people are genuinely trying to make the best out of it. And I admire those people. Even like even though they make a mistake or they misjudge how their audience would feel. I still admire it because you can either ignore it, but if you ignore it, the the world's still gonna use it. Right? And even if y AI is even on your phone. Even if you say I hate AI but you use your phone, it's on it's on you're already you're already bought into it. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something as simple as hey, phone, do I have any appointments today? That's all of it. That's all part of it. Yeah. Youp: That's AI. That's AI. Yeah, yeah, yeah. even like how the algorithm works with like what if you go on Amazon, right? That's how it but what I what I really v what I think value is if you are saying, Hey, this is how I use AI and it meets my value system, then I then I d then what can you say? Right? Not everyone's gonna have the same value system and you can't expect everyone to have the same value system. I think that's very arrogant. But y if you have values, like for example, let's say I don't support AI, I don't wanna see any AI. There's plenty of artists who say no. If you say, I don't mind AI as long as it's not touching my art, then that you know what I mean? And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: I think I think as I don't know anything about AI. This is just my opinion, right? and I'm not using AI. I'm not using it, but Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): We can clearly see on your Instagram. Like that's your hand, that's not an AI hand. Youp: actually that's the C it's all AI. It's all AI. I'm AI, that's the cough and mask. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I made a Youp: I fooled you all. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): When you do like this, you got like robot face Youp: You see some guy behind me like typing in all my prompts to say. but I but what I'm trying to say is like I know my value system. All I have to do is find the same people who have that value system, and that's my audience, that's my community. And I'm not gonna scream at Hollywood for not having my value system because they're a business, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Exactly Youp: so so I I I feel it's better to use your energy and your creativity. instead of being angry about this, just do it how you want to that matches your value system, and you'll eventually find your audience who agrees. And I I hope that's the Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): One hundred percent. Youp: future. I hope that's the future of AI. Some people will I have yet to see someone go, man, I'm so excited for that AI film. I can't wait for that film from that director Claude and the and the other writer Claude. And you know what I like I have yet to see see that. Maybe it will happen in the future or maybe we don't care in the future. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: But I don't know, what's your opinion about it? Like where we can all live in harmony again. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I think I think I think society in general is moving in a direction where people go to you to see what you is doing. People go to Carlos to see what Carlos is doing. Right. Youp: I still email. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So if you're coming to me to see what I'm drawing, again, AI is the ruler. You wanna come see the art, you don't wanna see the ruler, you don't wanna see the tools, you don't want Youp: I mean I mean Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): you don't wanna see the compass, you don't wanna see the the eraser, like all that stuff is fine. Like if you're a if you're a real 2D animation geek. You're gonna wanna look through the sketchbook. You're gonna wanna, you know, you're gonna wanna see the Youp: Well Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): manual things. but it's not AI is just the tool, it's just a ruler, it's just the compass. Youp: But here's what's so beautiful about it. It doesn't it's a tool and it can be used for any if you just want to use it for your personal planning or your groceries, but Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: you don't want to use it for your art, okay. But like you said something that again I really I really agree with is if you have a val like for example, I say I'm gonna try my best. sorry. I'm gonna try my best to make the most authentic cartoon I can make in Blender. Like paper. The only thing I'm not doing is cell. Because I I think if I start Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. That shit's even more expensive. Youp: I think if I st if I can call me and ask me how my mental health is if I ever start doing cell painting, because there are some people who do it and I'm just blown away how gorgeous it looks, but I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: I'm like no. but for example it's about committing to your projects. I said, okay, I'm gonna do traditional animation. The blender is now your light box. Grease pencil are your pencils. The camera view is the camera. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: you can okay, that makes sense, but there was no robot in with the nine old men or in termiters that was finishing up the drawings, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah. Youp: Those were the in-betweeners, those were the ink artists, those were artists. So I looked at my product and be like, okay, what if what feels like an update or a natural evolution versus a perversion of it? And I I'm not saying I have all the answers. I don't want to say I do, I'm figuring it out myself because I don't know what's going on in the industry or film or the future or AI. I have no clue. I'm just making a cartoon. But for me is I have I could not find a logical reason or even a moral reason to put it in how do I say this? I don't wanna say pipeline because we never know, right? Like what if AI makes Blender faster for some reason? But like I'm talking about the end result that the audience sees. I think that needs to remain a hundred percent handmade. The most I can think of that might be tolerable, but I I'm not using it because I don't know how to use it. But let's say AI filled in all your drawings. So let's say you're an independent animator and you spent a week hand drawing everything and inking it. Now you need to sit there for hours with a click, you know. fixing every like filling drawings and Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: if you ever fill drawings in digitally if there's a tiny gap in the line it doesn't work. So you have to you have to manually that's hours of work. Hours of and that could and actually clean up is the big bottleneck in animation. It's actually not the animating, it's cleaning it up. So I don't think AI should clean up your drawings because they'll ruin your drawings, but what if AI can fix the gaps for you? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: So it makes coloring easier. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: I don't know if that exists, but that's the only thing I can think of being useful. But other than that, everything else has to be handmade. And I don't mind cleaning up the line art because I like to do it. It makes Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Exactly. Youp: me happy. Like I love the whole process, so I don't see a reason to outsource it to a computer. I love the line art, the sketch, the thumbnailing, even the color. And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: I'm sure you feel the same way because you're I know that for certain, because you have a sketchbook. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: If you you know like like all people have to do is I have a sketchbook, I'm like, okay. Right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's it though. Like Whatever it is that you wanna be known as, whatever it is that you wanna improve in Do those tasks, you know. I know people that like to work on cars. But they're not they're not, you know, they'll they'll change their exhaust system with their own hands. They don't go somewhere to have a robot do it. Why? Youp: Beautiful. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Because it fe that's how you're spending your time. That's what that's what fulfills you you and what Youp: Mm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): makes you happy with you. Youp: Yeah. And and that's what the thing is that I hope kids because I read something really scary that kids are not using AI so much that their test scores and they're Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm. Youp: like every I read somewhere every generation the kids are smarter than the last one, but now that's not happening. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: So what I'm hoping is that like yeah, the computer will get you there, but you will find no joy in it. Like what you f what what's the purpose of living is learning, right? And doing Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: things with your hands. Like I have such an admiration for people who repair old furniture or fixed typewriters or cars, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: Much easier than throwing it away or like I wanna ask, like, are you obsessed with videos where people's like, I'm gonna turn this log into a chair or something like that, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, process videos, yeah. Mm-hmm. Youp: Those are addicting. That's content and that's gold mine for artists, and that's why I'm like 2D animators need to look at that. And be like but it's not very entertaining. It's like I'm gonna take this piece of wood to a factory, I'll pick it up when it's done. Like maybe inside the factory is Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah. Cool. Thanks. Youp: cool because of the computers, but let's not say a factory, because factories can be cool. Let's just say a magic box. Like I'm like you put it in, you type in the prompt and out comes the chair. Like that's not Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: fun. That's not Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Like a 3D printer. Granted, Youp: Bringing opinions are fun. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): great. Yeah, they are. Yeah, I was gonna say that, like right when I said 3D printer. The process of just like hitting a button and watching it be built, that part of the 3D printer. But the thing is, like the answer to that is like so you're sitting there Youp: it's hard. It's hard to get awful. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and you're yeah, you're sitting there, you're building and you're extruding and you're doing all the All the things in three D Youp: I I did 3D printing. I did 3D printing for my thesis, like to change the puppets of my stop motion. And I I I learned how difficult it is to even three this was COVID before COVID, two thousand eighteen, when three D printers were just kind of becoming affordable. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah. Youp: And they were like the ones that I bought for my film, was very, very like good, but now primitive, right? And it like look at Laika what they're doing now. Like have you seen their new film of what they're what they're doing? Have you seen trailers? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I don't think so. Youp: I did a little Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): What's it called? Youp: s spasm of I'm like I said, my my brain doesn't hold information like name, so I have to look it up. I can't remember my freaking Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, me too. Names and dates. I was terrible in history class. Youp: phone number. I can't remember anything. It's called Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: Wildwood. Wildwood. Now if you look at that actually do yourself a favor if you want, look at Coraline and then look at Wildwood, and you will not believe you will not believe how far they've gotten. And I believe that's because they didn't look at shortcuts. They looked at better processes, better waste, and they didn't think like all the other studios, how can I make it faster and cheaper? Because they knew that was the antithesis. I'm not gonna say that word. that's the opposite. I assume that's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's a tough one to say. I've said it a couple of times and I get I tripped Youp: it's the opposite of what their brand is all about. Like handcrafted Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: plot motion. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, that looks beautiful. Yeah. Youp: It's apparently their longest film too. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And and even even that, even drawing that not not drawing but three D printing faces and stuff like that, you even get haters talking about that being cheating. Youp: Well, there are always purists. Like there always will Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: be like people that you just if you're not drawing on paper, it's not classic animation. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: And I I ag I can I be honest, I really value those people because they are Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Me too. Youp: the ones that they are the ones that devoted themselves to the craft and made it what it is today. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: But we are not mimicking artists. We need to find our own voices, right? And as long as you are like this meets my value system like I don't like Here's the thing, if we if i if if Laica was okay, no more three D printing, we'll do it the the Vil Vinton style, you can't make films like Wildwood. You would deny the the art form and the culture a new kind of stop motion film. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: why deny the culture, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's how I see it. And again, if you wanna be known if Youp: I'm positive I'll get more people. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): you wanna be known as a stop motion artist, do stop motion stuff. If you wanna do a if you wanna be known as an AI artist, do AI AI stuff. Youp: stuff. And you'll get the fans 'cause lots of people support and love AI, some people don't. And it's it's picking a lane. I think it's just picking a lane. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): To me it's it's it's almost the same discussion humanity has to have back when illustrators felt threatened by the camera. Youp: like portrait painters. Yes. Yep, no Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: absolutely a lot of Dutch people were angry because they were master landscape artists and now someone said, Here's a picture and you can imagine them going Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Fuck these paints. Youp: Throwing their paper. Yeah. but but even like the most fascinating thing is like when you look at the Disney line art like Little Mermaid or Fantasia, that was done by hand and ink. And I've had some wonderful inkers and final line artists who made that an art form, but then they went to computer. And then the quality went down, up, down because the technology didn't meet with the artistic quality. Does that make sense? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: so I feel now that the quality has met up with the ink qual well no, nothing will ever match Sleeping Beauty's line quality. That will that's unmatched. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Sleeping Beauty was just beautiful. Youp: I I have you ever seen it on a big screen in like Blu-ray or four K? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-mm. Youp: If you want to like have tears in your eyes and stop the movie every five seconds, Sleeping Beauty has not only the most beautiful line art ever, I'm talking about the art, not the story, because lots of people are like, it's a boring story. I don't think so. But if you look at the backgrounds, the backgrounds are the most gorgeous, hyper stylized, detail focused backgrounds I think ever made. The film was so beautiful it almost bankrupt the studio and it forced the studio to abandon half their process and then pick up the Xerox process. That's when we get the one to one Dalmatians. But it's almost like Disney's like, This is the last time I get to use ink. I'm gonna make it worthwhile. I I believe that. I knew he saw the writing on the wall and he was like, Screw it, I'm just gonna make Sleeping Beauty as beautiful as possible and hope for the best. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Well. One of the peop one of the Disney movies that people Shit on for the lack of a better term, is Robin Hood. the line art and all Youp: People. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): the quality and all this stuff, and they yeah. It's my favorite movie. Youp: yeah. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's my favorite all-around movie. It's a wonderful film. The voice acting is on point, the art is beautiful, Youp: listen. I love that you said that. I love that you said that. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): the story is gorgeous. Youp: Yeah. Well, because I you have to understand the time. They were com they were used to Snow White or Pinocchio. So imagine if Pixar all of a sudden start making films that look like nineteen ninety-five again. We'd be like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: what happened to Pixar? Right? So I guess So I guess but Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's a really good point. Youp: here's the thing with 2D, age is like fine wine. So now Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: they used to hate that you saw the scribbly sketches underneath, but now we love it. the same thing that I feel with films like The Rescuers. It didn't do well, but Rescuers has the best animation ever because it has Milt calls Madame Medusa in it. And when you see Madame Medusa act, or even when she just enters the s the she just takes over the film. And I think it's a mistake to look at to dismiss movies because Critics of culture has dismissed it. like for example, I looked at the movies like Emperor's New Groove, I love that movie, Tarzan, but I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna watch the other movies that didn't do so well, like this movie, that movie, and even Home on the Range. I'm like, these are all excellent movies compared to what they're making now. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: So it's almost like who told us that these were bad movies? Who were the people? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: What agendas did they have? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Youp: Because I'm not an history expert, but I know that Disney wanted to buy Pixar. And they were like, can we afford a two D department and a three D department? we want three D. Let's sabotage two D for a bit. like So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's true, yeah. Youp: It's true. And so they so they said, No one likes two D, it's done. And then everybody to DR is like, You were sabotaging our movies for the last fifteen years. Like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: no, no one wants it. Trust me. Like that's not the case. It's it's not Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Listen, now that I have Youp: Yeah, so. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): now that I have nieces and nephews that are getting into watching cartoons and stuff, you know, they're four, five, seven right in there. Their parents tell me that if you put on a one of the newer cartoons, name it, it doesn't matter, not it doesn't even have to be a Disney cartoon. It's hard for them to sit through it. But then if you put on one of the classics, they'll sit Youp: You're right, yes. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): they'll sit right through it. Youp: because the drawings of the classics are never the same. It happened the same. I had a seven year old in my room. that's let me rephrase that. My brothers Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: My brother came to visit with his family and there was a seven year old in my room. Let's let's rewind that a bit. Sorry. I had a seven-year-old in my room one time. Yeah, let Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I had a seven year old in my room. Everyone everyone's record scratched. Youp: me rephrase that. So my brother's family came over and there was a seven-year-old and very hyper. but then I was watching the Popeye cartoons, the the the Paramount Popeye cartoons, and that's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Fleischer in them. Youp: when Popeye became really, really squashy and stretchy and more like Looney Tunes or Disney, less fleishy. And she first didn't like it because she's used to seeing something on her phone and swiping it. So then she looked back at it. She looked back at it and like, this is interesting. Then she sat down. And then because I'm a weirdo and I have drawings everywhere, she then picked up a drawing and made the connection. And then they start paying attention because Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: they understand it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: So I hope that if Disney or Looney Tunes ever is making classic movies, they educate the audience first how much work it takes. Because one of the big mistakes I think is remember they released a new Space Jam? Well, it'd be great if you want to release Space Jam and people watch it, but then don't take all the Looney Tunes off of your streaming services or Cartoon Network, because now a whole generation grew out, grew up without the Looney Tunes. And then if you try and say, hey, look at Looney Tunes, they're gonna go, whoop. Right? 'Cause I I I felt like an old man when people like hey there like I talked to some kids, right? Like you remember sis cartoon? Who? Cartoon Network? What's that? Nickelodeon? Huh? Yeah, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: like so Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: it's almost like we have to re educate the public to why these cartoons are important. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. We have to remind them MTV used to play music videos. It was in the name Music Television. Youp: Disney used to make hand drawn cartoons. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): What do you mean music television doesn't play music videos? Nope, gotta go to YouTube for that. Youp: Well the news used to tell news too, I And and that's what I really try and do with you P Tunes is I'm not hiding behind how much work it takes. 'Cause that's all that's false information, 'cause I don't wanna you know, like, this is so easy because I'm God. It's right, yeah i it it's hard work. But it if if it's like the Lord like I said, the Lord of the Rings bonus features. Like I'm pretty sure you've watched them, right? Like the behind the scene Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah. yeah. Youp: that's almost as entertaining as the film. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: now Imagine if s imagine if someone is making the Lord of the Rings again, all those bonus features or the making of would be their social media campaign. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: So imagine for two years you were watching the making of Lord of the Rings and then the Lord of the Rings comes out, you know what the movie is about, so you know you're gonna watch it and enjoy it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: So the investors don't have to worry about will the audience like it. They already say they do. So it's like reverse marketing. It's like like the trailers are stupid. They're They're they're they're they're not accurate portrayals of the movie anyway, 'cause the whole team behind trailers. But Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's all the good parts. How many times have you seen a movie and be like, damn, I I saw all the good parts of the trailer? Youp: Wow, I w I could Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Why? Youp: have just th that that happened to me so many times. I remember Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. I just spent a hundred dollars on this date night at the movies and and all we had to do was stay home and watch the trailer. Youp: I remember I felt that with when I was a teenager. That was the first time I felt betrayal. because I was like, the Hells in Wonderland, Tim Burton's Hells in Wonderland's coming out. And the trailer makes it seem like it's an authentic retelling of the original. And then when I w sat down, I'm like, wait, it's a sequel? Wait, now she's a warrior? What? Well I w I actually and I was an idiot because I actually dressed up like the Mad Hatter 'cause I was so excited. Like, no, no, this is this is a lie. I was like taking off all the clothes, like this is not Alice Lion This Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): This is dumb. Youp: is not anything stupid. I was like 14. I don't know, that's why I don't listen that's why I don't watch trailers anymore. If I wanna watch a movie I now find a re a reviewer or favorite YouTuber who's like, I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: watch it, yeah, check it out. That's not how I pick movies. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's and that's that's the community building. Again, it's really important for people to get back to connecting with people. Back I grew up in the seventies. I grew up in Youp: Connecting with people, but that starts farming. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): the seventies where where there was no it would it as a kid I can't tell you I can't tell you the first time we had a telephone. That was more that was more, you know, financial status, but I can't I can't tell you. But you had to depend on like if you got lost, you had to get out of the car, go into the gas station and ask, hey, I'm looking for this place. And they'd say, go up three more streets and hang a left. We we're we're disconnected. As people we are disconnected. Youp: All the answers are here, right? All the answers. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: Like there used to be a time where if you wanted to know something, you go to the library. So you talk to the librarian. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: Again, i I'm not saying it's ideal and go back to that, but the social aspect was there at least. Like like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. And the c we have to we have to leverage technology to reconnect. Youp: Ooh, I like how you said that. So you're saying like retool it. It's like because right now we've become addicted to convenience. So are you saying like retool it? I see. That's that's actually I like that. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's leverage let's leverage social media as adults and say Youp: Uh-huh. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): maybe instead of using these computers to make these really fast, super cheap images, what if we reach out to each other and we have a conversation that's going on almost three hours to talk about cartoons to talk about how you do things, to talk about how I do things. Could it be easier? Could it be faster? And then we connect and we continue to build together. Instead of instead of, you know, staying in your in your dark room with with Claude and telling Claude, hey, make this thing for me. Youp: you'll be very I will say this, but I don't want to name names because I only name people who are commenting on my thing in the open, like Ralph Boxy and like because they but private conversations I don't want to say their names because but I but I've been lucky because a lot of people who were heads of animation at major studios and even animation productors who are making major shows right now have reached out and they're like How did you do this in in your bedroom with zero dollars? Can we chat for a minute? because Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: this is costing me millions of dollars and we're behind schedule. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: I and I'm not promoting I have the answers because I don't. I'm just saying I'm playing with the tool. Here's the tool, here's what I use. Try it for yourself. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Right. Youp: there is no expert in Blender because Blender is getting updated every day. the only experts, I guess, are people who are making it. Right. But I I I think that would be a amazing if 'cause you know how there's sometimes people like, Yes, I'm a expert at this software. You have to join my course to you know what I mean? And that's fine. I guess that was a great business Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: model then. But if you're looking at the independence scene with open sourcing, it's really weird if you're like, Hey, buy my course how to how to use Blender cost twenty thousand dollars. By the way, Blender is free. 'Cause then you're taking Blender's product, which is free, and profiting off of it. Right? Without Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: and if you're not giving back to Blender, then you're just a leash in my opinion. You're like like you then you're against what Blender is for. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Right. That's the least Yeah. Youp: That's my opinion. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, no, it's true. And and the cool thing about it is it's especially the the 2D animation community is we're we're it's it's big, but we're not that big. There's way more 3D animators and stuff Youp: I I learned Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): like that than there are 2D animators. Youp: I learned how small the two D animation community is and they're all connected. Because when I met one of them, I met seven others because they're all connected. But what I've learned is because I was so naive with the state of the industry, because I didn't talk to animators, I wasn't in Hollywood, I only read what I could, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: I had no idea how bleak it seemed for 2D animators. because e because even though we're celebrating Coyote vs. Acme as we should. We should absolutely celebrate it. It's a miracle came out. But not all of it was hand-drawn, right? A lot of it was 3D to save costs. Like Bugs Bunny was hand-drawn, but the coyote wasn't. He was self-shaded. And that was a choice. I don't think that was an artistic choice. I think that was a cost-saving choice. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: So what I'm trying to say with that is like for a 2D animator, that's not a victory, that's a defeat. Like you're taking our characters that are 2D and you're making them into 3D. Like those are our characters. Give them to us. Give us the work. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with cell shaded three D characters. They're gorgeous. They can be amazing, right? But does that mean like why pilfer from the 2D style? like why take the why take the characters away? Like I I like I remember I I saw a spit in space jam too where Bugs Bunny turned into three D and I just went, Bugs, no like that's not my bugs. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Don't like it. I don't like it. Yeah. No. Youp: Right? And then and and none not not to shit on the people who made it because they're talented three D models. Like the texture and the furs and the animation is phenomenal. But Bugs is 2D. Mickey is 2D. Freaking Wallace and Grummet claymation. Right? Like you Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: like you're not gonna s all of a sudden be like, you know what, no one's gonna miss that Wallace and Grommet is now a three D well Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Youp: fake three. And we'll fake the thumb. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Or even if you even if you made them in live action, I don't I I honestly I don't wanna see I don't wanna see Wallace and Gromit in live action. Youp: picture and the actor who is like trying to be gr like because you can Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: you can imagine that the worst worst remake would just be a bald actor next to some CG dog that's real Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: that looks like cats versus dogs. Like it's a real dog with uncanny valley. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: I'm just pic and I'm saying this not not now but some executives are that's a good idea live action while I'm saying Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: Gromit. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Damn it, no. Youp: But like I said, like I I hope that the success of Cody vs Acme will encourage more two D art and not another film where they're trying to cut as many costs as possible so there's only one thing that's two D. Does that make sense? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Youp: like I I I I watched that film and I I love that film, but I was watching it from a two D fan. I'm like, okay, Bugs is three D, Pokey Pig is three D. I mean sorry. Bugs is 2D, Porky Pigs is 2D, and then everything else is 3D. I'm like, it doesn't match. It like it doesn't it's not cohesive like the day the Earth blew up. That's a cohesive piece. So that was that was my only critique with okay, we was acne like I wish it was more consistent. But I understand it was a cost saving thing, and I understand it was a miracle that film got out at all. But I bet if that film had more funding, more belief from the people who I they w it could have been an even better film. Like we were fully 2D. And the only Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: three day only the 3D use was maybe for the environments or certain props, right? or let's say, crap, we need to animate bugs doing this complex shot. Let's make a 3D version of it. Give it to the animator as reference. So they can Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: I I I just care about like keeping the Looney Tunes as traditional as possible, right? Otherwise What am I doing with my with my thing, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And for and for and for people that think that we're being like hardcore Youp: No. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): traditionalist la la la, Youp: Not at all. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): let me remind you, Coca-Cola tried to change its recipe and people people mutinied. They said, No, no, no, we don't come to Coca Cola for that shit. Youp: Yeah. Same th I think the only re I think not the only reason. Acyomi vs. Acme is a victory for the animation community. It absolutely is. It absolutely Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I agree. I agree. Youp: is. And it deserves to be upheld as a piece. Like we don't we don't accept corporate sabotaging, right? but like I said, I think the biggest victory that the next victory is to make sure that the success of Kyoto vs. Acme doesn't neglect the 2D animation part. That's the because I'm worried that they might go Curse Acne was a success. Let's just drop two D and do everything three D. No one will notice. We'll just we'll just do a shading. We'll do it we'll do a tune shader. No will notice. The fans know. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And if they want to, that's fine. If they want to, that's fine. We'll take up the slack. We'll come up with those two D animated Youp: We'll make. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): characters. We'll do those. We'll do those. Because that's what I I'm gonna be drawing for the rest of my life. I'm gonna be making two D animations. I'm gonna learn grease pencil this afternoon. Youp: Yes! Call me anytime you have issues. If you if you Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I will, said Youp: want help with stabilization. It's it's tricky, but once you know the three things, like how many vertices are in your grease pencil, because the less vertices, the more choppier your line looks. Just add some more vertices, which means there's more there's more control of your line. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Okay. Youp: I can show you all that stuff if you're ever stuck. It's once you get it, you're like, I got. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. And I and I now that I'm older, I'm I've made this decision on purpose. I want to Youp: Which decision? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I want to draw and I want to animate and I will draw and I will animate until I am not alive anymore. I purposely did this. I didn't go into football, I didn't go into basketball, none of that stuff, because I want to be able to do this for the rest of my life. Youp: And you know what? That's the most beautiful thing ever. And I get excited because that community, that that you you saying, I wanna do two D, I wanna in I wanna empower 2D by promoting it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: that is what I think is the most valuable thing for this. I don't wanna say movement because like it sounds big, right? But I do believe if we all put in good energy and support Coyote versus Acme. and support the 2D and resist the cost cutting when it affects the culture or the yeah, then the like like I s like you said, if the studios won't do it, we can pick up a slack. If the studios Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): dude. Youp: don't want to promote a movie, we'll promote it. Right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: Like that's how Coyote Rizacne survived. Like it was promoted on the internet. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah, when that news article when Youp: And it's funny because Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): the news article came out that it was a great movie and it it was getting rave reviews, but then they pulled it because they wanted Youp: Also really Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): it to be a tax, a tax whatever the hell. I'm like, dude, Youp: Right. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): come on, come on. This is what this is the thing that gets me that drives me crazy. You have all of these, we'll call them business experts. They're serving a market that is it's only obvious that it exists. So instead of taking money and investing it into a property or a process that is beneficial, that there's a market for, instead of instead of they go and they figure out ways to cut cut costs instead of leveraging their business acumen to make more money. To be able to make this thing. To pay the artist the right proper way to do all the things. If you're the business people, why is it that it's the artists that go out here and exactly what you're doing? You say you're working on your film, you want it, you want exposure for the film, you want it, you want people to see that it's available, you want people to to buy into the idea and everything. So you go out and you start making content around that. And you're starting to build up your business. Building up this momentum and all that momentum can very easily be translated into dollars if you ask the people. So now your budget has grown because there's people that are participating in this project. But no, these big studios, their answer is always, give me a big check so I can make cuts to all the creatives. Youp: I would love to talk to you more about this because y you clearly you know more about the industry than I do because you worked in Hollywood, but like I don't understand the logic. And I think maybe if I understand the logic of why two D cartoons have been cut for f since Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: nineteen ninety five, right? Since I think I'll have more of a understanding of it. But you're from what I've heard, I haven't lived it. I've only lived it with marketing, right? And I've seen my whole team 'cause I had a team of animators, illustrators In a year's time I lost my entire team to cost cost cost cutting in AI. So I had people message me saying, You give a project for me. they're not giving me a project, I'm scared. So I would try and go to my boss and be like, Hey, put this person on my project and they're like, No, you have this app. I'm like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: Okay, see ya, I'm done. Like I I quit. I'm I quit. I actually quit. I'm like, I'm not doing this. I'm not gonna like I'm not gonna sit there and and look I like it's me and a bunch of computers. I'm not doing it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: But I I I guess what you said that I find I would love to talk to you more about is if we can show there is no risk as long as you are honest with your product and you're showing what you're building, you don't need a test audience, right? After you spend a couple million dollars making the movie, well, the test audience didn't like it. Now we have to re-film everything and add this person in. Because that's money down the drain. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: But if you show, for example, this is what I like to do, I would not release my whole film, but maybe I would release the whole storyboard of my film. Why? Why not? If people steal my idea, like hey, hey, hey, I put it on inside up there, I put it on, like, right. And and here's the thing, it's a storyboard, it changes, but then you get comments like, I la I thought this was weak. You can you can change it. You can change it. And it doesn't didn't cost Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or Youp: you anything. Someone gave you that critique for free. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Or or you could just mind your business. Minding your business is free. Youp: That's true. That's true. No, I had lots of not lots, but I had two people saying, the animation that I've done, the feed are in the wrong place. I'm like, cool, buddy. but like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: if the if the critique is, hey, like it's a valuable critique, you can't be emotional about like, hey, this person took the time out of their day to write on my social media that this is a problem or they see it being a problem, I'll Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: address it. Thank you. Like there's a difference between hating on a product and giving constructive feedback. like when like when Joey with Joey Caps when he looked at my animation, he's like, it's so good. And then he and and then and then he's like, Hey, do you wanna hear what I've done want some like not not feedback? He says, Wanna see how I would do it? I'm like, Yes. And he said, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Course. Youp: This is exactly how I did it for the data earth blew up and the Looney Tudes cartoons. And he in and he just drew over every it's all my Instagram. And I'm like This is the most valuable thing that you can do for an animator. right? It's because you your animation you're not born with the gift to animate. It's mileage. Right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: How many years have you been doing it? Joey's been doing it since I was, I don't know, still picking my nose or something like when I was sixteen. Let me rephrase that. I when I wasn't in high school, I think. I don't know actually how he but let me rephrase that. Joey has been in the industry a lot longer than I have, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Sure. Youp: or animating a lot longer than I have. so for him to speed up my process, doesn't just help me, but it helps the community because I'm sharing everything. So people can now look at my early animation and see you didn't do that correctly, you was didn't and they can this Joey did this. now I for My animation, I'll remember what what Joey recommended. We push push the expressions, watch the silhouettes. And I think that's the future of learning. It's no longer dry tutorials, it's learning and messing up in real time and sharing it. Because that's content. You forget you're you're you forget you're in a classroom, right? Because no one likes Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: being in a classroom, right? No one likes being in a dry tutorial, right? Like it's a reality show. Like all like that's kind of what I'm learning that UPTunes has becoming a reality show of making the cartoon and I'm bringing in Disney legends to help, give opinion, Joey Caps, like it's becoming like a little show. And and we'll see what happens with it. Maybe it will crash and burn, but hey, at least you guys had fun watching it. Right. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. But no, those are the those are those D V D extras that we're talking about. Like that's the stuff that I love. Like I'll sit and I'll watch Youp: Yes. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): a film and it's fantastic. I'll I'll d the behind the scenes stuff is the only reason I still have Disney Plus. Youp: Yes, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I like Youp: yes. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I like I like I like seeing all the weird artists. I like seeing how they you know, how weird they get about their pencils. I like I like seeing all that stuff. Youp: My favorite. Have you seen it it it's it's wonderful, it's it's tragic but uplifting. it's a Richard it's a Richard Williams documentary on his making of the of the Thief and the Cobbler. what's it called? The Persistence of Vision. And the whole film he's just agonizing about his arcs. were agonizing about this and the entire time it's like, Hey, Dick, you wanna finish the film sometime soon? Like, no No, we gotta get this right. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): We're waiting for this damn film, hurry. Youp: no, I gotta get this so it's it's a very beautiful cautious a caution cautio Cauchetary, can you help me with that word? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Cautionary It's like when you have to be careful, right? Yeah, cautionary. Youp: Cautionary. Cautionary. It's a beautiful Yeah, yeah, it's a it's it's a beautiful caution. English is not my first language, so I have an excuse. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Neither is it's not mine either. Youp: what was your first language? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Technically Spanish. Yeah. Youp: studia espanol para uno anni. pero necessito studia mas I'm really bad at it, but I I live sorry, I but I'm trying to learn it. I I no I didn't. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Practica, yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. You did good. You did good. It d there your point came across. Youp: Yeah, you were like that's terrible, but he's trying. But leave that out. Maybe leave that out of the interview. Yeah, maybe leave it out of the interview, even though I'm my Spanish is not Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. The effort. It's always about the effort. It's always about the effort. Yeah. Nope. We're gonna leave it in there. We're we're reaching for the Spanish for the Spanish audience. Youp: Worst Spanish person ever. And then in tiny brackets, by the way, he's a 2D animator. Worst Spanish person. You can leave it in, I don't care. but again with the persistence of vision, and if you haven't seen it, I recommend it. It is in my opinion the most beautiful story and the most uplifting story, but also a cautionary tale of what perfectionism does. so that's the thing I have to worry about, because I'm a very big perfectionist and I think everything I do is fifty percent of what it should be. but what social media has forced me to do if you have a strict uploading schedule, you have to upload it no matter what. So you're your own producer, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yep. Yep. Youp: and social media is the timeline. So I learned to finish my shots and to finish things, even though I agonized it and I was like, with the with the post button. You realize that no one really sees the mistakes that you're agonizing over. I learned that over Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: three weeks. Yeah, some people will be like, you could improve that, but Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Well, okay. Note taken. Youp: Like yeah. Like what are you gonna do? Not post at all because you can't draw feet for a bit? Like I don't know. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Feet are hard. Youp: But feet you know what's harder? Shoes. I think shoes are harder. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: Because shoes are a solid object that you rotate. The feet squish a bit. So when I saw Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Youp: your shoes, I was like, you're doing shoes. Ooh, that's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: hard. That's why I have all my characters on the beach with no shoes. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It started in a snow pile but then the shoes, the boots and stuff, you're like, No, we're going to the beach. Youp: My my my film started the shoe factory actually. I was in a shoe factory but I'm like, I can't draw shoes, so now they're on the beach. man. is there any yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): this has been this has been such a wonderful conversation, dude. Youp: I agree. It's been really I feel like it added a couple of years to my life. It was very refreshing. It was very little Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. There's not a lot of people that really geek out on 2D animation like this anymore. Youp: There are, but they're quiet. They're very quiet. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. And I'm definitely not quiet. Youp: I learned not to be quiet. I learned to s to do what I always wanted to do, but also contribute to the community. I almost kind of forced myself not to be quiet anymore. I am actually quite quiet. I don't go out much. that shouldn't be a surprise. but I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. We don't need to. There's nothing but trouble out there. Youp: Yeah yeah and plus kind of Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Every time I leave every time I leave this room, it gets harder and harder to draw. The farther I am from this room, the harder it is to draw. I'll bring the sketchbook with Youp: You live in L. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): me, but then like there's people out there. They're and people are very disruptive. Youp: People are they're yeah, and I don't know. Like I I personally need absolute I don't get people who work in cafes and stuff like that. I need c solit, I need quiet. do you live in LA? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): No, I live up in the Bay Area now. I live close to San Francisco. Yeah. Youp: nice. I love I always wanted to check out San Francisco. I like San Francisco. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): whenever you're ready, dude. You got family out here now. Youp: great. No, I I was actually planning on going to like if the film ever gets that's a bad mindset when a film when the film gets completed. I hope to maybe like get go to LA if the f if if it gets you know what I mean, just meet some friends I've made along the way because they're all in LA. it is. I love that one. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah. LA is fantastic. LA is fantastic. The the the creativity and the creative people down there. the food is outstanding. it never snows. That's outstanding. Youp: the weather. I remember being in LA and I was like, this is gorgeous. Like it's almost like some entity put the thermostat at the cor at the exact perfect spot and then put a fan right where LA is. Like a fan. And it's like beautiful. I I I miss it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and if you have allergies, there's I mean, you can't you can't be allergic to exhaust. You can't be allergic to to car pollution. If you're allergic to car pollution, it's a wrap. You d you don't you know what I mean? Youp: Also forest fires. If you're also allergic to forest fires, LA might not Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: be Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Those two. We get those up here. those are scary. The forest fires are way Youp: Canada is Canada's Canada's nice for like three. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): scarier than the earthquakes. Way scarier than the Youp: I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): earthquake. Earthquakes you're like, whoa. You know, maybe a thing or two fall off the shelf or whatever. You're like, all right, well, that was weird. Youp: I got one funny story if you want when I went to LA for the first time. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: Because I was I was an angry little teenager at the time when I went to LA to chase my dream and be a filmmaker, right? And the year like, never mind, everyone's really embittered and angry. I'm Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: really just but I went there when I was like sixteen, seventeen. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: I found found like a place to stay with a bunch of other people who were really great at the time. And I no one told me about the earthquakes. So I was sleeping and an earthquake happened and everybody in the house heard me screaming like a little girl. Cause I because I thought some man came in and was shaking my bed like a thief. Like, so I was like screaming. And then and then in the morning they were like, first earthquake. Everyone was like, yeah, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ha ha ha. Youp: first earthquake. Like, you guys didn't thanks for telling me I appreciate it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, my first one, I was I was I was at my sister's house and and the earthquake hit and I thought the kids were kicking the back of the couch. So I s I stood Youp: yeah, yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): up to yell at them, like, What are you doing? And then I saw all of them looking at the at the swimming pool and they all started saying, Earthquake and the the water was moving like that. It was pretty crazy. Youp: Your brain doesn't register an earthquake at first. It your brain's almost like who's fucking with me? Like yeah, that's always what it Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, that everyone's like, California's gonna shake into the ocean, all this stuff. I'm like, yeah, no, that's not. And even if it did, what a wonderful life. Youp: If it does, it can be its own nation. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): What a wonderful life. What a way to go. Youp: Here's the good thing though, if if LA ever breaks from the United States, it could be its own nation. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: Like Britain, it could just be its own little island and start you know. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, for real. When I was living down there, I told I told all my friends that I wanted to buy a a a houseboat. And they said, Why? I said, So when LA shakes off into the into the ocean, I just put it in drive. I pull up to Las Vegas, I tie it back down, and we're off and running. No harm, no foul. We good. Youp: I thought s I said something similar. I still say that if I ever move back to Europe, I either want to live in a lighthouse, a windmill, or like a house that's in the water. And there's like a little drawbridge. And if I if I'm animating, I just lift the bridge so no one can Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: come by. It's like a draw bridge. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I said I need quiet Youp: Or didn't mean we'll cast on the skills. Yep. Anyway, we're Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): my god, that's outstanding. Youp: we're an hour and a half over time, so you're gonna have a hell of a time editing. I apologize. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. No, I don't edit. I I put the I do the intro and then I put the end screen. That's it. That's it. yeah. I'll Youp: But don't you do short videos on Instagram, you said? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): chop those up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll chop those up. That's that's easy work. Yeah, that's easy. Yeah. well take the No, go ahead. I cut yeah. Youp: perfect, perfect. But awesome. Awesome. yeah. I my only request is sorry. my only request is maybe to remove the first part of I had a seven year old in my room. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Ha ha ha. Youp: That's the only thing I'm gonna ask, you can edit out. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Seven year old. Even though even though like Youp: Christian. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): if I were to leave it in, that's a wonderful little Easter egg. You know? Youp: Okay, you can leave it in. I as long as you don't lead with it or use it to like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): no no no no no that's gonna be in there. It won't when I do my clips and stuff, a a lot like what we were talking about, like community building and stuff like that, those are the ones that I try to create is like what's gonna be beneficial Youp: that's what I want to talk to you about. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): for the for the for the community. Youp: love to talk to you about that because I'm going into long form interviews with animators and I also want to know how your process is taking a long conversation and chopping it up. Because right now I have I have a friend who's helping me with that. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: But if we can just figure out process that's kind of faster, that would another thing we can share. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll talk. We'll talk. We'll get you lined up. That's that is Youp: Yeah, I hope so. But you're you're you're at this you're you're a great guy. I really enjoy talking to you. Like I really appreciate Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Same to you. Same to you. And that's a and that's something cool. I I I always tell people, like generally speaking, you know, you're gonna get your eccentrics and all that stuff. But in in the community where we are existing in, for the most part, Youp: Uh-huh. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): everyone is really cool. If you're if you don't come in with a bunch of shenanigans and and a bunch of ego and all that stuff. For the most part, everyone's really, really cool and they will and they'll they're super friendly and and helpful. Youp: Well, here's a funny thing you said about the people who are fake and nasty, that comes through in their social media, right? So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Youp: they can't they can't maintain a brand Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: because maybe their brand is based off lying or scare tactics or Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: fear of missing out. That's gonna only get you so far. So if someone's following you, like it's the same old message again. Unfollow. That's why a lot of people who were famous three years ago are seeing their subscribers go down 'cause the Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Their demise. Yeah. Youp: same yeah, yeah, because they they built it off of a how do I say that an unsustainable personality. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. And this is me. You can look through all the videos. This is me. I'm like this in front of you. I'm like this in front of my mother. I'm always gonna be I'm always gonna be drawing. I'm always gonna be telling jokes. I'm always gonna be trying to laugh. You know? I'm always gonna try to make Youp: Mm. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): the world a better place. Specifically for 2D Youp: Yep. I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): artists. Yeah. Youp: We need it. Let me say we we really need we really need I guess encouragement to let us know that what we're doing is worthwhile because it's so much work. It's so much work and I would say it's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's lonely, it's thankless. Youp: it's incredibly lonely because while everybody else is going out partying, you're at home drawing, you're learning. So a lot Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Drawing feet. Youp: of Mm, let's not talk about these. But This is how I see it. I spent my world really shrank for ten years after university. It really, really shrank. And now that I posted three months ago, now my world has grown. Online, not in real life, but Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: it's it's something, it's very meaningful. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, your work when you start doing what you're supposed to be doing, and you just I tell people this sometimes it's gonna take one post, sometimes it's gonna take a handful of years. But if you just Youp: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): give yourself time to one, improve your skills, two to put your work out there and find your people. Everyone wants to do it. Youp: May I say Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Everyone wants to do I have to do this yesterday. Yeah, that's fine. But no. You just take your time, do it right. You'll find your people. Youp: I think that's beautifully said. May I say one more thing and that's the last thing I'll say and then I don't want Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Okay, let's do it. And then after you say this, let everybody know where they can find you online. Youp: yeah, that's true. so the one thing I will say is I know I said I only posted three months ago and I have this traction now, but I do want to make it clear that there was fifteen, ten years of like like it's not like I started drawing, like it like I it's a long journey and I was Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: able to package what I'm doing and have my voice. So what yes the walk the run cycle got my name out there, but I that was before I w you know I was you know. So I just want people to know like, you did it in three months. I it took me three years, I'm a failure. No, no, no. I it took me ten years to learn how to talk on social media, learn how to conduct myself, know how to package my content, how to promote myself. That took ten years of learning. So I just want to be honest with that. Like it it's not it's not yeah. Right, but yeah, I thought so too. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, no, that's that's very important information. Because again, in a world where everything seems to go more and more towards the instant gratification. there's no such thing I mean, well, it's hard to find a true overnight celebrity. Youp: I I'm very suspicious of those people 'cause they're usually backed by a corporation, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: and like a marketing team. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: but yeah, I the listen, I was almost not about to post my run cycle because I didn't think it was good enough. I know me too. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): glad you did. Cause it's motivating. Youp: That's what I've realized. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: Because I thought I posted and people would go, amateur. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: But that's not the case. And I it's not and and if we are amateurs, who cares? We just keep learning, right? Yeah, who cares? Professionals are amateurs. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Who cares? You're you're one project closer to being a professional. If you look at it that way, every project you do gets you it's just another portfolio piece, it's just another showcase piece, it's just another and you're you're making you're making decisions and you're making mistakes today that you won't the next project. Youp: Failures are so valuable. That's that's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's how you learn. Youp: the only thing is what you said. Failures are the most valuable thing. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Go ahead and let everybody know where they can find you. Youp: Thank you so much. I forgot. that's important, I think. right now I am I do have a I forget what my I forget what my YouTube name is. let me see. I I just opened it. I'm not very active on it, but right now my my mostly I'm mostly on Instagram and that is UP so Y-O-U P I E underscore tunes and I believe it's the same on YouTube except without the underscore just you Pie tunes Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Cool. That makes it easy. And again, I'm gonna track down all these all these links. I'm have in the description of this video so you guys can go and find you and and support him. Cause like we're bringing 2D back. We're bringing two D back, baby. Youp: That's that's the goal. That's the goal. And I I I really hope no not I hope. I know that in a couple months, like proper months, we're gonna see lots of boat boutique high quality animations companies come out. Like not just UP Tunes, we're gonna see a lot more. 'cause it's accessible now. So I re that's my dream. If I can I I if I can just watch more classic cartoons that I don't have to make. I'll be very happy. I don't wanna make them all. I just I wanna watch something. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's way easier to watch him, huh? Youp: Someone else cry and suffer. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, I wanna watch someone else's behind the scenes of their banging their head up against the wall. Youp: Yes, agreed. Well it was a real pleasure talking to you, Carlos. I really, really appreciate it. Very Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): same. Same. Youp: motivating, it is. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, same here. with that everybody, we're out.