Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Katie Woolf spoke with Minister for Territory Families and Urban Housing Kate Worden

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Katie Woolf spoke with Minister for Territory Families and Urban Housing Kate Worden · 360 with Katie Woolf

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Speaker 1: You are listening to Mix one oh four point nine
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Speaker 1: three sixty. Now. The issue with youth crime has been
0:05
Speaker 1: on the agenda for quite some time in the Northern Territory,
0:08
Speaker 1: with the Northern Territory government last month announcing a crackdown.
0:12
Speaker 1: The changes include what the government has called tougher than
0:15
Speaker 1: ever consequences for breach of bail. Police will also be
0:19
Speaker 1: given more powers to tackle youth crime through expanded options
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Speaker 1: to apply electronic monitoring. The package includes legislative and non
0:28
Speaker 1: legislative measures to reduce youth crime through targeting repeat offenders
0:32
Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory. When making the announcement, the government
0:36
Speaker 1: also said there are practical consequences to these policies and
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Speaker 1: that is why the government will be allocating five million
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Speaker 1: dollars for additional new youth remand infrastructure, allowing for an
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Speaker 1: increase of young offenders on Remand Now, I think it's
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Speaker 1: safe to say that we've spoken extensively about the legislation
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Speaker 1: and calls this week for Parliament to be recalled to
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Speaker 1: get the legislation through. But this morning I want to
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Speaker 1: focus on some of the other things that are changing
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Speaker 1: and happening, namely in the area of Territory Families. And
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Speaker 1: joining me in the studio is the Minister for Territory Families,
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Speaker 1: Kate Warden.
1:11
Speaker 2: Good morning, Minister, Good morning Katie.
1:14
Speaker 1: Thanks very much for your time this morning. Now, firstly,
1:17
Speaker 1: we know that Northern Territory Police have beefed up resources
1:20
Speaker 1: over the past few weeks in Casarina, Karama and Alice
1:24
Speaker 1: Springs to deal with increasing rates of youth crime. Yesterday
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Speaker 1: you revealed that officers have made a number of arrests.
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Speaker 1: How many young people are in remand or in custody
1:34
Speaker 1: at the moment.
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Speaker 3: So double check those figures this morning, Katie. And in detention,
1:40
Speaker 3: which is obviously kids on remand and in custody. We've
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Speaker 3: got forty four across two sites, which is don Dale
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Speaker 3: and the Alice Springs Youth Detention Center.
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Speaker 1: So forty four at the moment. Does that mean that
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Speaker 1: they are at don Dale or that they could be
1:55
Speaker 1: on remand in one of those other centers.
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Speaker 3: So there's only don Dale and Alice Springs all young
2:00
Speaker 3: people who are in being held in detention are so
2:03
Speaker 3: they just split across those two sites.
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Speaker 1: Now, is that up on previous months?
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Speaker 2: It is? I said that publicly yesterday.
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Speaker 3: It is up from I think we were tracking at
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Speaker 3: around thirty perhaps thirty three at the beginning of the month.
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Speaker 2: And that has changed.
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Speaker 3: We were at one point as low as eighteen, so
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Speaker 3: we have climbed quite steeply to forty four today.
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Speaker 1: Minister, Does that show this you know that we needed
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Speaker 1: that crackdown.
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Speaker 3: I think that police from time to time do targeted operations.
2:33
Speaker 3: I know that you know in your own local areas
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Speaker 3: you'll work very closely with the police and you'll ask
2:39
Speaker 3: them to target specific areas. They've done a number of
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Speaker 3: operations obviously both across Darwin, Alice Springs and Tenant Creek,
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Speaker 3: and I believe they're doing some activity also in Catherine.
2:50
Speaker 3: So yes, they that's their normal operational they'll tell you that.
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Speaker 3: But obviously at the moment we have seen a spike
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Speaker 3: in crime, not just juvenile crime, because I think we
2:59
Speaker 3: can talk about youth crime quite separately, but in fact
3:03
Speaker 3: crime across the board. We've talked publicly about the impact
3:08
Speaker 3: of COVID additional job seeker money plus two hundred and
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Speaker 3: twenty million dollars being poured in super and then we
3:14
Speaker 3: find out about royalties just recently. That's a lot of
3:17
Speaker 3: money flowing into the community to people, and a lot
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Speaker 3: of that's obviously gone to alcohol and gambling. Of course
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Speaker 3: there have been people spending it wisely, but yes, that
3:30
Speaker 3: has caused an escalation of.
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Speaker 1: Issues, Minister. The Australian newspaper is reporting today that there's
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Speaker 1: a growing consensus among states to raise the age of
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Speaker 1: criminal responsibility from ten to twelve, with plans to go
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Speaker 1: up to fourteen. The change which has been revealed on
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Speaker 1: the thirtieth anniversary, of course, of the Royal Commission into
3:49
Speaker 1: Aboriginal Debths in Custody report. It's part of a move
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Speaker 1: to lower Indigenous incarceration rates, particularly among youth. Minister, should
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Speaker 1: this age be raised.
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Speaker 3: This was also a recommendation of the Royal Commission, but
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Speaker 3: they recommended twelve. We've taken the position that what we're
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Speaker 3: going to do is watch the national discussion. It would
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Speaker 3: be pointless us then implementing the age of twelve if
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Speaker 3: then nationally they went to fourteen. So we need to
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Speaker 3: make sure that we sit back and see what happens there.
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Speaker 3: The other important part is if you're raising the age,
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Speaker 3: and let's say potentially we did raise it to twelve,
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Speaker 3: then you need to make sure that you have programs
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Speaker 3: for those young offenders under the age of twelve, and
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Speaker 3: that you're ready for a system change. So that work
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Speaker 3: is being done nationally, and we'll keep watching that. We
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Speaker 3: haven't we committed to the intent of overall intent of
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Speaker 3: the Royal Commission. So obviously we've taken that recommendation to
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Speaker 3: twelve seriously. But at the moment, we'll just keep watching
4:48
Speaker 3: that national debate see where that lands.
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Speaker 1: So at the moment, from your perspective and from the
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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government's perspective, there is no rush here when
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Speaker 1: it comes to raising the age.
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Speaker 2: There's no rush, all right, just go.
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Speaker 1: Back to those numbers, taking into account what we've just
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Speaker 1: spoken about. Are there any kids in detention at the
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Speaker 1: moment under the age of twelve?
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Speaker 2: Katie?
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Speaker 3: I would presume that there might be, but I don't
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Speaker 3: have that detail with me. Okay, that's a level of detail.
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Speaker 3: I would have to go through a number of reports
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Speaker 3: to work that out and break it down by an individual.
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Speaker 1: Now, I do want to ask how many kids are
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Speaker 1: currently being monitored by electronic monitoring.
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Speaker 3: So there at the moment we have got at the
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Speaker 3: end of March, there was twenty two young people fitted
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Speaker 3: with electronic monitoring. However, back during twenty nineteen twenty, we
5:37
Speaker 3: had a total of three hundred and forty young people
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Speaker 3: they were fitted with electronic monitoring devices, and that's just
5:41
Speaker 3: CORE ordered, Katie, So there is a difference. So police
5:45
Speaker 3: already have certain powers around electronic monitoring, so when young
5:49
Speaker 3: people are on police bail, for example, they can do that.
5:52
Speaker 3: So that's a separate figure from that. That's three hundred
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Speaker 3: and forty during that financial year which were CORE ordered.
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Speaker 1: Now, Minister, speaking about those electronic monitoring bracelets, do you
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Speaker 1: feel as though they're working in the sense that I
6:04
Speaker 1: know that there've been some discussion. You know that we
6:07
Speaker 1: know that it's sort of not real time. So if
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Speaker 1: somebody breaches what they're supposed to be doing with those
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Speaker 1: on it's hard, as I understand it, for territory families
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Speaker 1: to be able to notify the police. Is that the case?
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Speaker 3: So I think that electronic monitoring is a condition of
6:23
Speaker 3: bail often, Katie. So if let's say a young person
6:27
Speaker 3: tampers with that electronic monitoring device, well then that would
6:31
Speaker 3: be considered a breach of bar, which obviously can then
6:34
Speaker 3: be followed up and prosecuted.
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Speaker 2: However, we have just moved to a new.
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Speaker 3: Provider which has expanded how many we have, so I
6:45
Speaker 3: think we can go up to a thousand now it's
6:47
Speaker 3: a brand new provider and we're changing some of the
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Speaker 3: technology around that. I'm obviously not an expert in electronic monitoring,
6:53
Speaker 3: and neither are you, but I think that we're working
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Speaker 3: through the system of electronic monitoring. Having a look at
7:00
Speaker 3: the changes that we're making at the moment has given
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Speaker 3: us the opportunity to review procedures and have a look
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Speaker 3: at the whole if you're like the policy settings that
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Speaker 3: sit below this for decision making aroundand electronic monitoring as well.
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Speaker 3: So yeah, I think the new system that we've got
7:16
Speaker 3: is a much improved system.
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Speaker 1: So would it be like, would it sort of be
7:20
Speaker 1: able to let the police know, let's say, or let
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Speaker 1: territory families notify police if somebody has breached, you know,
7:28
Speaker 1: done something to breach their conditions?
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Speaker 2: So that already exists, so territory families do currently ring
7:35
Speaker 2: up the police and let them know. Okay, that happens.
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Speaker 1: Now, I just want to ask you, and this is
7:39
Speaker 1: one of the things that I really do want to
7:40
Speaker 1: speak about. And now as you pointed out when talking
7:42
Speaker 1: about raising the age of criminal responsibility, there do need
7:46
Speaker 1: to be different programs in place, you know, to try
7:48
Speaker 1: to support young people who are on the path of reoffending.
7:51
Speaker 1: And you know, I think it's safe to say that
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Speaker 1: nobody in the community wants to see ten year old
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Speaker 1: kids locked up. You know. To me, I've got a
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Speaker 1: ten year old, the thought of it is entirely mortifying.
8:02
Speaker 1: But the thought of a ten year old being involved
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Speaker 1: in crime is also entirely mortifying and really sad. Quite frankly, Minister,
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Speaker 1: what kind of well, actually, firstly, how many different diversion
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Speaker 1: programs do we have operating in the territory right now?
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Speaker 3: So there's a whole raft of diversion, Katie, diversion. Actually,
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Speaker 3: I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding about diversion.
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Speaker 3: Diversion can be police can send young people, or it
8:31
Speaker 3: actually can be volunt to you know, instead of going
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Speaker 3: to court immediately, a young person can opt to go
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Speaker 3: on diversion prior to court. What that diversion does is
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Speaker 3: actually inform the court when they come back on that
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Speaker 3: charge around you know, what they've done and achieved on diversion.
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Speaker 3: So if they go to diversion. Before that, that might
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Speaker 3: be that they do some youth justice conferencing, and I
8:51
Speaker 3: think again that's not well named, because youth Justice conferencing
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Speaker 3: is a ten week program where they get to face
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Speaker 3: and their families get to face what's going wrong in
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Speaker 3: their lives. And the Jesuits do an amazing job of
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Speaker 3: that down in other springs with some really great success
9:05
Speaker 3: rates over a longer period than just the six months
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Speaker 3: post so they're seeing seventy percent reduction and redcidivism over
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Speaker 3: a longer period, which is really good.
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Speaker 2: We've also got the highly talked.
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Speaker 3: About work and boot camps and we've got a number
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Speaker 3: of those, and then we've got our back on back
9:24
Speaker 3: on track, so we've got a lot of providers that
9:26
Speaker 3: provide back on track programs. But you can also be
9:30
Speaker 3: sentenced to diversion and that's where our boot camps and
9:32
Speaker 3: those come into play. So a court can sentence a
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Speaker 3: young person to a boot to a boot camp, and
9:38
Speaker 3: if they go to that boot camp and they don't participate,
9:41
Speaker 3: they can actually.
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Speaker 2: Be brought back before the court.
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Speaker 3: So there's sort of it's pre sentencing and post sentencing
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Speaker 3: can be can be part of that diversionary program back
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Speaker 3: on Track specifically, we've worked with a number of providers
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Speaker 3: all the way around, and we've currently got about sixty
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Speaker 3: seven people out in those programs, and they work with
9:59
Speaker 3: people like Congress who not just work with that young person,
10:03
Speaker 3: but also work with their family. And what happens is
10:05
Speaker 3: you try to get that young person. If the family's
10:08
Speaker 3: not safe, you might move that young person, help that
10:10
Speaker 3: person move out. You might also then help them finish
10:13
Speaker 3: their education and get a job. So it's that reconnection
10:16
Speaker 3: around back on Track, you know, the name says it all.
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Speaker 3: It's actually about getting that young person back on track
10:21
Speaker 3: in their lives, whether that's in the home environment, whether
10:24
Speaker 3: that's independent. And I was just recently speaking with Donna
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Speaker 3: Archi of Congress down in Alla Springs and they were working.
10:30
Speaker 2: With a young girl.
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Speaker 3: She was only fifteen, but they were helping her live
10:33
Speaker 3: independently and that she was just starting to work go
10:36
Speaker 3: into a job. There was no way to get her
10:38
Speaker 3: back into school. So those sorts of programs are in place.
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Speaker 1: Kate, Are these programs compulsory because when the Chief Minister
10:46
Speaker 1: made the announcement about the crackdown on crime recently, he
10:49
Speaker 1: said that he was surprised to hear that in some
10:51
Speaker 1: instances we had youths that were refusing to do different
10:54
Speaker 1: things and that they weren't sort of being forced to
10:57
Speaker 1: follow out you know, some of those programs. Why is
11:00
Speaker 1: that the case? I mean, if a youth has offended,
11:04
Speaker 1: are they not then pushed to try and do one
11:06
Speaker 1: of these programs to get them back on track?
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Speaker 3: And that's why I'm highlighting to you, Katie, that there's
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Speaker 3: pre court and there's post courts.
11:13
Speaker 2: So if a.
11:14
Speaker 3: Young person is offered diversion by police, they obviously see
11:17
Speaker 3: that that young person has the opportunity to turn their
11:19
Speaker 3: life around that is voluntary. If they say no, I'm
11:22
Speaker 3: not going to do that, then they.
11:23
Speaker 2: Are before the courts. The loophole that.
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Speaker 3: We've now discovered is if they then participate in diversion
11:28
Speaker 3: and then don't complete that, then they're not immediately brought.
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Speaker 2: Back before the court.
11:32
Speaker 3: And that's one of the changes that we're making right
11:34
Speaker 3: So we're seeking to ensure that that can happen. So
11:38
Speaker 3: the minute that a person doesn't, we get that flag
11:40
Speaker 3: from the provider that that person is no longer participating
11:43
Speaker 3: and they can be back before the court. And the
11:45
Speaker 3: court will then take that diversion outcome non participation into
11:49
Speaker 3: account and then they will get a sentence from the court.
11:53
Speaker 3: If it's post court, then it's court ordered diversion, then
11:56
Speaker 3: absolutely it's mandatory and those people need to go once again.
12:00
Speaker 3: And if they breach that and do not be a
12:02
Speaker 3: condition of their sentence that they go to that diversion camp.
12:05
Speaker 3: Often it will be a camp like seven EMUs just
12:08
Speaker 3: outside Borrolula, one of those, then that will happen. They'll
12:12
Speaker 3: be brought back before the court again for for breach
12:15
Speaker 3: of their sentencing.
12:16
Speaker 1: With those boot camps as their call. With those camps,
12:20
Speaker 1: do you have any idea how many kids have undertaken those,
12:23
Speaker 1: let's say, over the last twelve months and whether they've
12:25
Speaker 1: been successful.
12:27
Speaker 2: I actually don't have that figure with me today, Katie,
12:29
Speaker 2: but I do know that we have had that.
12:31
Speaker 3: They're currently our sixty seven kids in the Back on
12:34
Speaker 3: Track program, and we have had during in the youth
12:38
Speaker 3: Justicing conferencing. As I said, it's not just one conference,
12:41
Speaker 3: it's a ten week program. In nineteen twenty we had
12:44
Speaker 3: two hundred and thirty seven young people participate in that,
12:48
Speaker 3: which so there was two hundred and thirty seven youth
12:51
Speaker 3: Justice conferences and within twelve months, sixty four percent of
12:55
Speaker 3: them had not reoffended.
12:57
Speaker 1: All right, well, we might even see whether we're able
12:59
Speaker 1: to get some figures on the boot camps if we
13:02
Speaker 1: can sort of after we get off air, Minister, I
13:05
Speaker 1: do want to ask you. I know that there are
13:08
Speaker 1: one of the things which I'm really keen to get
13:10
Speaker 1: some more detail on, is these parent responsibility agreements and
13:14
Speaker 1: what these agreements are going to look like.
13:17
Speaker 3: Sure, and we've spoken a bit about it briefly before, Katie,
13:20
Speaker 3: so I welcome the opportunity to come back and speak
13:23
Speaker 3: to you about them. Because family responsibility agreements and orders
13:27
Speaker 3: already exist in legislation, they just not used. How can
13:30
Speaker 3: they weren't that they are, there's a failure to be
13:33
Speaker 3: able to prosecute them. So a family responsibility agreement in
13:36
Speaker 3: the Act is voluntary. There is a real problem with
13:39
Speaker 3: getting families to agree to get onto them. But then
13:42
Speaker 3: if they don't, if they fail on that. So there
13:44
Speaker 3: was a very low number that actually got I think
13:46
Speaker 3: it was as low as three that they got to
13:48
Speaker 3: agree to have them. They went and took some one
13:51
Speaker 3: of them at least to court and it was the
13:53
Speaker 3: judge just won't because so punitive and nature. What it
13:56
Speaker 3: says is, if you don't do what it says in
13:58
Speaker 3: the agreement, we're going to issue an order to you.
14:00
Speaker 3: And if you fail on that order, it's so punitive,
14:03
Speaker 3: we're going to take things like your TV. Essentially, courts
14:07
Speaker 3: won't do that because they'll say these are vulnerable families.
14:09
Speaker 2: We're not going to give that order. So it's failed.
14:12
Speaker 3: Last November I publicly talked about family responsibility agreements and
14:16
Speaker 3: seeing where we could go with them. We quickly realized,
14:19
Speaker 3: working with NAJA and nt Costs, that we actually could
14:23
Speaker 3: not get families on agreements. The same problems existed. So
14:26
Speaker 3: we've realized now we need to make some legislative change.
14:29
Speaker 3: So we need to change the Act which allows us
14:32
Speaker 3: to get court ordered family responsibly agreements. So we are moving.
14:35
Speaker 3: We are moving from a two phase approach, the first
14:38
Speaker 3: bit being voluntary to then being mandatory, to a simple
14:41
Speaker 3: mandatory approach. Now that's not to say this is where
14:44
Speaker 3: territory families have worked with families for a long period
14:47
Speaker 3: of time or just worked intensely with families to change
14:51
Speaker 3: the family environment. Where it's contributing to a child's offending. So,
14:54
Speaker 3: as we've spoken before, it's not a safe place for
14:56
Speaker 3: the child. So they're out on the streets and they're
14:59
Speaker 3: doing and they end up doing the wrong thing. So
15:01
Speaker 3: what we need to do with family responsibility or agreements,
15:03
Speaker 3: and that's what we're doing in a couple of weeks
15:05
Speaker 3: time and during the Assembly, we will be bringing forward
15:08
Speaker 3: the changes to the legislation and.
15:11
Speaker 2: They will order.
15:13
Speaker 3: It will be an order from the court that is
15:15
Speaker 3: binding on that family. And as I've publicly said before, Katie,
15:18
Speaker 3: if that family doesn't follow that order, and that order
15:21
Speaker 3: will talk about things like sending your kid to school,
15:25
Speaker 3: it will talk about if you've got alcohol issues, putting
15:28
Speaker 3: yourself on the BDR, if you've got a gambling problem,
15:31
Speaker 3: addressing those issues. At the same time when they're on
15:34
Speaker 3: the order will continue to support that family to make
15:36
Speaker 3: a change. And if at the end of that we
15:39
Speaker 3: are now considering that if you're not sending your child
15:41
Speaker 3: to school and your child is on the street at
15:43
Speaker 3: night time, that's neglect and it will trigger a family assessment,
15:46
Speaker 3: on a child protection assessment. That's the outcome of this.
15:51
Speaker 3: So that's you know, some people will say that's a
15:53
Speaker 3: big stick, but it's actually not. That's actually where we
15:56
Speaker 3: get to a point that the family itself, and we're
16:00
Speaker 3: talking a broader family here who might be able to
16:02
Speaker 3: step in and assist us to get that child to
16:04
Speaker 3: school and get that work done. But we have given
16:06
Speaker 3: We are saying we've exhausted every bit of support we've
16:09
Speaker 3: given to this family, and a child orotection notification will
16:14
Speaker 3: be triggered.
16:14
Speaker 1: I would say, it's actually about trying to give a
16:16
Speaker 1: child the opportunity to live a good life.
16:19
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Katie, And I think you know, not sending your
16:22
Speaker 3: child to school is neglect and we see it too often,
16:26
Speaker 3: particularly you know, you'll go out during lunchtime and places
16:30
Speaker 3: like that here and Dar and see it in other
16:32
Speaker 3: springs that those children are not attending school.
16:34
Speaker 2: They need to be in school.
16:35
Speaker 1: Kate, I mean, how many chances are people going to
16:39
Speaker 1: get here? Because I can hear people listening right now
16:42
Speaker 1: thinking to themselves, is this going to be a little
16:44
Speaker 1: bit like you know, some of the situations we see
16:47
Speaker 1: in public housing where people seem as though they break
16:50
Speaker 1: the rules time and time again and nothing ever happens.
16:53
Speaker 3: You need to have a process. My understanding is around legislation.
16:57
Speaker 3: If you're going to use a legislative tool, which is
17:00
Speaker 3: what the agreements will be, you need to have a
17:02
Speaker 3: process that gets you to that point. So already territory
17:06
Speaker 3: families work extensively to support families. So it will be
17:10
Speaker 3: a policy around and we're working through that what that
17:13
Speaker 3: policy that sits underneath that legislative change looks like, and
17:16
Speaker 3: that will be trigger points for that so that when
17:19
Speaker 3: you go into court and you're seeking the order, the
17:21
Speaker 3: court will need to be satisfied that you've made every
17:24
Speaker 3: effort to get that family back on track to support
17:26
Speaker 3: that young people so that they don't offend. That's the
17:29
Speaker 3: trick to it, and so it won't be about chances.
17:31
Speaker 3: It will be about a process applied to families around.
17:35
Speaker 3: You know, yes, here's the opportunity you need to get
17:37
Speaker 3: your kid to school, and if that fails, then what's
17:40
Speaker 3: the next step?
17:41
Speaker 1: Kate, I'm mindful of time, but I do want to
17:43
Speaker 1: ask what, like, what's the punishment going to be or
17:46
Speaker 1: what is going to be the process to use your words,
17:49
Speaker 1: if they're not getting their children to school and if
17:51
Speaker 1: they're not actually doing what is expected in that order.
17:54
Speaker 3: We just agreed Katie, that that would be neglect and
17:57
Speaker 3: so that a child protection notification will be triggered and
18:00
Speaker 3: that family will be investigated on that basis, so that
18:03
Speaker 3: it may end up that the family that that child
18:06
Speaker 3: is removed from that family environment and place where in
18:10
Speaker 3: a more an environment where they're supported to get the best.
18:13
Speaker 2: Out of life.
18:14
Speaker 1: I mean, are you concerned about about what you know?
18:17
Speaker 1: What some may say, are we going to spark another
18:21
Speaker 1: stolen generation by doing something like this?
18:23
Speaker 2: Absolutely not, Katie.
18:24
Speaker 3: I think that every child deserves an education, every child
18:28
Speaker 3: deserves a future, and what we need to make sure
18:31
Speaker 3: is that, you know, all these families are well supported.
18:34
Speaker 3: We need to make sure that they get, you know,
18:36
Speaker 3: as much support as possible, because of course, a child
18:40
Speaker 3: is best and thrives most often when they're with their family.
18:44
Speaker 3: We know that, but we have to also have as
18:47
Speaker 3: a society, we have to understand that in order for
18:50
Speaker 3: a child to have a future, they need to be
18:53
Speaker 3: well kept out of the Roman system. We also need
18:55
Speaker 3: to make sure that they're getting an education, and where
18:58
Speaker 3: that's failing, we need to pssibly step in as a government.
19:01
Speaker 2: Kate.
19:02
Speaker 1: One of the really sad things that we've heard a
19:04
Speaker 1: lot in recent months is about kids on the street
19:06
Speaker 1: all hours of the day and night. Alice Springs is
19:10
Speaker 1: an example that we've been given. Plus earlier in the week,
19:13
Speaker 1: we actually heard from a listener who said that there
19:14
Speaker 1: are fourteen year old boys sleeping at the Casarina Interchange
19:18
Speaker 1: at night. What is done when kids are roaming the
19:22
Speaker 1: streets at night and where can they be taken if
19:24
Speaker 1: they don't have a safe place to go.
19:27
Speaker 3: So in talking to police and talking to the youth
19:30
Speaker 3: outreach officers down in Alice Springs extensively around these sorts
19:33
Speaker 3: of issues, they have informed me that there has never
19:37
Speaker 3: been a time that they haven't found a safe place.
19:39
Speaker 3: We underestimate the people working in this area. Police and
19:45
Speaker 3: yoios I'll call them. Those are the youth outreach officers.
19:48
Speaker 3: They know each child, they know their family situations, They
19:51
Speaker 3: know what safe place is.
19:53
Speaker 2: In Alice Springs. We have a safe sleeping place.
19:55
Speaker 3: We fund the Alice Springs Youth a comt services in
20:01
Speaker 3: Alice Springs to do that work.
20:03
Speaker 2: If we ever need them, we don't use them, Katie.
20:06
Speaker 3: I've spoken to them, my met with them on my
20:08
Speaker 3: recent trip to Alice Springs and they you know, they're
20:11
Speaker 3: a wonderful support service, but we don't use them. And
20:14
Speaker 3: that's because, you know, our professionals working in the space
20:17
Speaker 3: are able to find safe spaces. Now that might not
20:20
Speaker 3: be in the family home, but they do. They are
20:23
Speaker 3: able to find safe sleeping places for those children.
20:25
Speaker 1: Minnestero, I know that there will be people in Ala
20:28
Speaker 1: Springs listening to this interview and thinking, then why are
20:30
Speaker 1: their kids on the street at night?
20:32
Speaker 3: So those kids are being picked up regularly by the
20:35
Speaker 3: services we've got down there. The fact is that some
20:39
Speaker 3: of those kids are out because they their own home.
20:42
Speaker 3: That's not necessarily the safe sleeping space identified by our
20:46
Speaker 3: service providers, but their particular home circumstances might not be safe.
20:51
Speaker 2: The other thing that I've been.
20:52
Speaker 1: Here, it happens in that situation, so.
20:54
Speaker 3: They might take them to a family member that they know.
20:56
Speaker 3: So there might be an auntie that they know that
20:58
Speaker 3: takes those kids to school, perhaps every day, and that's
21:01
Speaker 3: the situation. I met a lady down there just recently, Katie.
21:04
Speaker 3: She's extraordinary. She lives next door to a lady whose
21:09
Speaker 3: children she sleeps overnight, and she does it regularly. She's
21:14
Speaker 3: often picking those children up and bringing them back to
21:16
Speaker 3: her home. So there are people that are providing those
21:18
Speaker 3: safe sleeping places for young people.
21:22
Speaker 1: Kate, we are fast running out of time. I do
21:24
Speaker 1: want to talk to you about these remand facilities which
21:27
Speaker 1: are going to be expanded. Where are they going to
21:29
Speaker 1: be and what's it going to look like?
21:31
Speaker 2: Okay, So what we did, Katie, is we put aside.
21:34
Speaker 3: My argument was that there would be a likely result
21:37
Speaker 3: in additional young people in remand whilst we're where we've
21:41
Speaker 3: been having these discussions about what potentially needs to be done,
21:44
Speaker 3: So that is a figure that's been put aside where
21:48
Speaker 3: we might need to have some flexibility in our facilities.
21:51
Speaker 3: At the moment, we're redoing the Alice Springs facility and
21:55
Speaker 3: bringing it up to a standard where young people in
21:59
Speaker 3: Alice Springs can actually get turn their lives around, So
22:02
Speaker 3: that works being done down in other springs. So whilst
22:06
Speaker 3: that's happening, we actually are a limited capacity in other
22:09
Speaker 3: springs and that's been recognized by our government. So the
22:12
Speaker 3: current facility here in dah and the don Dale has
22:15
Speaker 3: some flexibility because obviously it's the old jail site, so
22:17
Speaker 3: that money would be would be used in order to,
22:21
Speaker 3: if you like, expand the footprint out at Dondale so
22:25
Speaker 3: that we can accommodate more young people.
22:26
Speaker 1: There is that our best move at this point when
22:29
Speaker 1: we are supposed to be building a new facility.
22:32
Speaker 2: So Katie, that works happening.
22:33
Speaker 3: So the new facility is being built, but you have
22:36
Speaker 3: to make do with at the time. You know, this
22:38
Speaker 3: is about being flexible and understanding what your future needs
22:42
Speaker 3: might be. And so that's that money.
22:45
Speaker 2: You know.
22:45
Speaker 3: We never said we're building new facilities. We never said
22:48
Speaker 3: that's for facilities, for new facilities. What that is is
22:52
Speaker 3: it's money set aside for us to be able to
22:54
Speaker 3: expand where we are.
22:55
Speaker 1: Minister. Is that happening because we do not have enough
22:58
Speaker 1: space at Dondale and in Oura Springs.
23:00
Speaker 3: Well, don Dale is in the old footprint of the
23:02
Speaker 3: police and we've got enough beds for the amount of
23:05
Speaker 3: young people that we had in the past. If those
23:08
Speaker 3: numbers continue to be to grow, there's an expectation by
23:11
Speaker 3: the community that will have a safe facility for them
23:14
Speaker 3: and we will need to do some work around that.
23:16
Speaker 1: Okay. So because we are actually you know, having this crackdown,
23:20
Speaker 1: it does mean that realistically we need some more space.
23:23
Speaker 3: So we've been talking to the police about what that
23:25
Speaker 3: crackdown that might look like and once we change the legislation,
23:29
Speaker 3: what that might look like. So we're anticipating, hopefully only
23:33
Speaker 3: a slight increase. So the police tell us that there
23:36
Speaker 3: are a number of repeat defenders and it's a small cohort.
23:40
Speaker 3: So we need to make sure that if those young
23:43
Speaker 3: people are put into detention that we have the capacity
23:45
Speaker 3: to hold them safely and also hold them in a
23:49
Speaker 3: way that meets all the regulation.
23:52
Speaker 1: But realistically, by the sounds of it, once these legislative
23:55
Speaker 1: changes come into play, you are expecting that there's going
23:57
Speaker 1: to be an increase in the number of young people
23:59
Speaker 1: out there.
24:00
Speaker 3: It's my job, Katie, to get ahead of the game
24:02
Speaker 3: and I have had significant discussions with my colleagues around this.
24:06
Speaker 3: That's why we've put aside the five million dollars identified
24:10
Speaker 3: that maybe need for a five million dollars to allow
24:13
Speaker 3: for the expansion of safe and secure beds for young
24:16
Speaker 3: people in.
24:16
Speaker 1: Lamand Minister, just on closing, I know that your press
24:20
Speaker 1: for time this morning, as are we. I just want
24:22
Speaker 1: to get to the fact that we know that earlier
24:25
Speaker 1: in the week the colp opposition obviously called for Parliament
24:28
Speaker 1: to be recalled for a day to get these legislative
24:31
Speaker 1: changes introduced. We have also obviously spoken to the Police
24:35
Speaker 1: Association president Paul mchw He told me he's concerned about
24:39
Speaker 1: the timeline with these legislative changes. But then on the
24:42
Speaker 1: other hand, the Criminal Lawyers Association of the Northern Territory,
24:46
Speaker 1: Marty Ost, their president, has told the Northern Territory News
24:49
Speaker 1: today that proposed changes to bail laws need to be abandoned.
24:54
Speaker 1: How are you going to take all of these views
24:57
Speaker 1: into account and also the expectations of the community at
25:02
Speaker 1: this point, it's.
25:04
Speaker 3: You know, it is a hard road to travel, Katie,
25:07
Speaker 3: and you do need to get that balance right. Community
25:10
Speaker 3: safety has to come first and you can see that
25:13
Speaker 3: our government is responding to that. But with that, it's
25:16
Speaker 3: really important that we remember you can't just write legislation.
25:20
Speaker 3: Legislation needs to be talked about within our agencies because
25:24
Speaker 3: we need to know, as we've just talked about, the
25:27
Speaker 3: on flow and consequences of legislation can be that you
25:30
Speaker 3: need to expand a facility like don Dale, so you
25:33
Speaker 3: have to you can't just slam a piece of legislation through.
25:36
Speaker 3: The Other thing that I really want your listeners to
25:39
Speaker 3: take away from this is that we are not taking
25:42
Speaker 3: our time, as being said quite loosely.
25:46
Speaker 2: Around the place. I'm probably by me, Kay.
25:49
Speaker 3: What we're doing is we're getting it right. Because if
25:51
Speaker 3: you have a piece of legislation, you actually have to
25:53
Speaker 3: have the policy sitting underneath that, Katie, and that actually
25:56
Speaker 3: inform that legislation. So, and I'll give you an exam here.
26:01
Speaker 3: If a young person steals food and they get caught
26:04
Speaker 3: and they get charged with theft, that person might be
26:07
Speaker 3: put out on the police might bail them, and they
26:10
Speaker 3: might get an electronic monitor on. At the same time,
26:13
Speaker 3: that young people then might breach their bail by stealing food. Again,
26:17
Speaker 3: the circumstances for that young person might be that they're
26:21
Speaker 3: really hungry and they're in a family situation where they're
26:23
Speaker 3: not just not being fed. What happens then is under
26:27
Speaker 3: the coop legislation, it's my understanding that that child would
26:30
Speaker 3: then be put into remand because they've breached their bail.
26:32
Speaker 2: Now, I think the.
26:33
Speaker 3: Community understands that the best thing for that child is
26:36
Speaker 3: to address that issue about why they're stealing, not necessarily
26:40
Speaker 3: put them into remand where you've got some young people
26:43
Speaker 3: that are in there for some fairly you know, things
26:46
Speaker 3: like assault and those sort of more serious offenses. So
26:49
Speaker 3: I think that what you have to do is you
26:51
Speaker 3: have to have policy underneath that that gives police the
26:54
Speaker 3: flexibility and the understanding and the tools to be making
26:58
Speaker 3: decisions so that the police can then make the decision
27:00
Speaker 3: about that young person, do they continue to put that
27:03
Speaker 3: young person on the on bail. So that policy work
27:07
Speaker 3: is being done right now. It's about informing decisions for
27:10
Speaker 3: police when they're making those you know, when they're making
27:13
Speaker 3: that decision about what they do with that young person.
27:16
Speaker 3: That's the important work. And it can't be just done instantaneously.
27:20
Speaker 3: And we've been working very very hard on it over
27:22
Speaker 3: the last few probably the last month or so. So
27:25
Speaker 3: we need to, you know, make sure that there's no
27:27
Speaker 3: unintended consequences of legislative change. We need to make sure
27:31
Speaker 3: that everybody's briefed on it before it gets rammed through parliament.
27:35
Speaker 3: There are processes, and in fact, May is a good
27:39
Speaker 3: timeline to get this stuff done.
27:40
Speaker 1: Properly, and is it going to pass in May?
27:43
Speaker 3: So we make that decision as a caucus there's no
27:47
Speaker 3: secret about that. So once it's all come together, that
27:49
Speaker 3: will go to Cabinet, and then Cabinet will go to Caucus.
27:52
Speaker 3: And so this is how we'd like to treat that.
27:54
Speaker 2: That's normal. That's the normal way we operate.
27:56
Speaker 1: Minister for Territory Families, Kate Warden, I was going to
27:59
Speaker 1: ask you a couple of other things. Actually I do
28:01
Speaker 1: just want to take you to one question that we've
28:03
Speaker 1: had from a listener yesterday. It says, Hi, Katie, with
28:07
Speaker 1: all the talk about about crime throughout the Northern Territory,
28:10
Speaker 1: I thought i'd pass on my concerns. I have since
28:12
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen taken teams to the Alice Masters. We missed
28:16
Speaker 1: out on twenty twenty due to COVID. At that time
28:19
Speaker 1: I had nearly sixty team members from all over the country.
28:22
Speaker 1: How do I try and recruit them to come and
28:24
Speaker 1: enjoy the games in twenty twenty two with all the
28:26
Speaker 1: crime and assaults, in particular in Alice Springs, what's the
28:30
Speaker 1: government going to do? They are the biggest sponsor of
28:33
Speaker 1: the games. How can we keep players safe?
28:35
Speaker 3: I think that for your listener there, we have done
28:40
Speaker 3: an intense amount of work in Alice Springs. We are
28:42
Speaker 3: working extremely hard. I've been down to Alie Springs three
28:45
Speaker 3: times since I've become the Minister for Territory Families, Katie,
28:50
Speaker 3: and I don't feel unsafe in Alice Springs. I've been
28:52
Speaker 3: out at nighttime. I've been out with our service providers.
28:56
Speaker 3: I don't feel unsafe in Alice Springs. That doesn't take
28:58
Speaker 3: away from the fact that there has been crime, but
29:01
Speaker 3: I can give your listener some confidence that we are
29:04
Speaker 3: working extremely hard in Alice Springs on those issues. It's broader, issh.
29:07
Speaker 3: It's more broader issues than just kids out at nighttime.
29:11
Speaker 3: There are alcohol issues that are being addressed. There are
29:13
Speaker 3: issues about getting people back to community now post extra
29:17
Speaker 3: COVID money, and the Alice Springs brings such vibrancy to
29:20
Speaker 3: Alice Springs that the Master's Games does, so it's really
29:24
Speaker 3: important that we make sure and we send that message
29:26
Speaker 3: out widely that Alice Springs is a wonderful hub and
29:29
Speaker 3: the Masters are a fantastic event, and I really encourage
29:34
Speaker 3: them to get along and continue as it has been
29:36
Speaker 3: in the past.
29:37
Speaker 1: Minister for Territory Families, Kate Warden, I really appreciate your
29:40
Speaker 1: time and speaking to us so extensively about this issue
29:43
Speaker 1: this morning. I know there's plenty of other things we
29:45
Speaker 1: could have asked about some of your other portfolios, but
29:47
Speaker 1: I thought that it was really important today for us
29:49
Speaker 1: to hear more about some of this other work that
29:52
Speaker 1: is being undertaken.
29:53
Speaker 2: Thank you for the opportunity, Katie.
29:54
Speaker 1: You are listening to Mix one oh four point nine's
29:57
Speaker 1: three sixty