Latest / Bookies' Favourite / The Rest of Our Lives by Ben Markovits | Review | Booker Prize 2025

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The Rest of Our Lives by Ben Markovits | Review | Booker Prize 2025 · Bookies' Favourite

0:13
Hi. Hello, hello, welcome to the
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Club bookies favorite book club. We discuss literary shortlists
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and award-winning novels. This episode we are discussing
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the Rest of Our Lives by Ben Markovitz, published by Faber.
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I'm Aaron, our broadcast journalist, and I'm settling
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down for the night in a Comfort Inn.
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I really enjoyed this book and I know that goes against what
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everyone else has said, but I have to say that I actually
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really, really enjoyed this book.
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I read it. I did have to skim through the
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last 30 pages and to have it read for this recording, but I
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really enjoyed this book. Aaron, do you only like it
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because he actually finished one?
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I like it more than audition. Get.
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What legasp? I'm Hannah and I have a
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basketball game tomorrow. Anyone whoever wants Jenna
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Marbles will get these reference.
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But is she shaking her heads around me?
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I don't know. Oh, it's like YouTube back in
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the day type thing. This book I it's my least
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favorite of the entire booger list.
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I think in total I've read about 10.
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I added the 13 and this is at the bottom.
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I just did not enjoy. I think for me it just there was
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just like no plot really. For me, it just lacks that.
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I just, oh, I'm shaking his finger at me.
1:53
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know.
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Just couldn't really relate to characters.
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I just thought overall not my favorite book and it could have
2:01
been done so much better. Hi, I'm Lucy.
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I was going to be, that was my thing.
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I was going to be like shitting some hips somewhere I could.
2:08
Still be shooting some. I'm shitting some hips badly.
2:14
Oh, OK, so yeah, I'm going to disagree with her.
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And I cannot believe he thinks it's better than Audition
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because. That's where he went rogue.
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That's that's. Like an objectively wrong
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opinion I struggle with not this novel.
2:28
When I first read it, I really enjoyed the start of it.
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And I thought so many of the themes I actually thought were
2:32
quite relevant to my own life or like things that like, you know,
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family relationships and things like that.
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And I was like, this is going to be so good and I'm so excited
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for this. And I thought it was maybe going
2:45
to touch on more kind of more things in like a more
2:49
straightforward way. And I just, I just felt like
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this novel felt absolutely flat for me.
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It was just like a bunch of things didn't happen or did
3:00
happen. And then I thought as well, by
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the end of it, when the end happens, I was like, I don't
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even know that. I massively care.
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And I felt a bit bad about that. But yeah, I know this novel was
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not for me. Not at all.
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I'm Colin and I'm currently diving for coins in the pool in
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Paradise Palms this book. I feel like I could go either
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way on this. I actually like this a lot more
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than I think both Hannah and Lucy did.
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It surprised me that I liked it a lot more considering I think I
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think part of it was that my expectations were rock bottom,
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like on the floor. And then when I read, I was
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like, actually, you know, this isn't so bad.
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I think it touches on some really interesting things.
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Like you say, Lucy, I think a relatable and I think it's maybe
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the kind of book that will hit harder if we were older and when
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we are older. I think if you came back to this
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book, maybe things were like Lucy's not quite sure about
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that. But I'm I think it's one of
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those things that it touches on themes that maybe we're not at
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the age to to understand fully our experience.
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It was a quick read, which I'm always happy for.
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At the same time, I still think there's things that are missing
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and it it tempted or like it went around the the perimeter of
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topics, but never felt confident enough to dive right in to
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actually talk about things. But that's what we're here for.
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To start us off, here's a quote from the rest of our lives.
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You fall in love with somebody when you're 26 and you see them
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in all kinds of different lights and according to their
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potential. But after years and years of
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marriage and shared parenting and all the other shared
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decisions you have to make just to get through the days, you
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accumulate a lot of data about that person that after a while
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just seems more or less accurate.
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If you continue to have illusions, that's your fault.
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So if you stay married, it's because you've accepted that
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this is what they're like and what your life with them is
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like, and you stop expecting them to do or give you things
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you know perfectly well they're unlikely to do or give you.
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Spoiler warning from this point onwards if you haven't read the
5:10
book yet and you're planning to come back to this discussion
5:13
after you've done so. The Rest of Our Lives follows
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Tom, who's 55 years old and has set off on a road trip with his
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daughter Miriam. He's considering leaving his
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wife Amy after the trip as she years earlier had an affair and
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now that his children have all left home, it feels like he can
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leave her. During his trip he meets various
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people who've been part of his life and tries to make the
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decision of whether or not to leave his wife or what to do
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with the rest of his life. Tom has also been ill for the
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past few months with very concerning symptoms that have
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his doctors stumped. Our bookie this week is Dimpina
5:47
Flynn. After her long career producing
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book programs for the BBC, she's now a freelance audio producer
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specializing in books. She's a book reviewer and was
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one of the judges of the Costa Book Awards 2021.
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I'm always drawn to a male midlife crisis novel, and The
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Rest of Our Lives by Ben Markovitz is exactly this.
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On the very first page, we know about Amy's infidelity and how
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for 12 years, her husband Tom has lived with it, resolving to
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leave her as soon as their youngest child turns 18.
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And so now that moment is here, and the family is preparing for
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Tom to drive this daughter, Miriam, to Pittsburgh
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University. But he's also living with some
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health issues. And there's a secret Tom is on
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leave from his law professorship after some students have
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complained about his attitude, and he hasn't shared that with
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anyone. So Tom, as soon as he drops
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Miriam off, he has to confront what's left for him now that
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both his children have gone. And the answer for him is to
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ignore his body signals of serious illness and keep
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driving. He revisits scenes from his
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youth all the way across the USA, perhaps in the end
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intending to visit his father's grave.
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This is a novel of real physicality, and Tom's
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predicament and meltdown struck me hard.
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It's really real and I wasn't surprised to read in an
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interview that Ben Markovitz himself that he and his family
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drove across the States and he got progressively sicker and
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sicker with symptoms that the the doctors couldn't diagnose
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and it turned out to be a serious illness.
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Anyhow, I highly, highly recommend this book.
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It's a really good read. I mean.
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Yeah, she was great. Thank you.
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That was a really, really nice starting point for our
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conversation. So she says that she likes a
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book that's a male midlife crisis.
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And I have to say I do like a male midlife crisis book, but I
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didn't enjoy this one. And I was trying to think
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earlier about why what exactly about this novel was what I
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didn't like. And when I was going through it
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again for this, because obviously I read it a while ago,
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I was kind of thinking, what are we going to talk about?
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And then actually I found that there's, there is an awful lot
8:21
in this novel to talk about. And I think when I first read
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it, I, I just thought it was skimming across all these like
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massive issues. And I don't know what about it
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was, but I didn't particularly feel that connected to the main
8:35
character at all, which I was expecting to in a lot of ways.
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So it's interesting that some people have really related to
8:41
him and then other people really haven't.
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And, and he's kind of described as being a flawed character.
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And I think he is, but I I don't know if I just didn't think he
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was flawed enough. To me, he almost seems resigned
8:55
to his Fiat, like I don't know if that's like an older malaise,
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like a midlife malaise or something where he's just sort
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of giving in to what has happened.
9:03
Like even the the fact he's like planning on or considering
9:06
leaving his wife. He doesn't even seem like over
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overwhelmingly yes or no to that.
9:12
It's just like, oh, OK, I guess this is probably going to
9:15
happen. And which is quite interesting
9:18
because then it makes reading of the book quite mellow or like
9:23
humdrum. It just feels like everything is
9:24
mundane, even though these things that are happening in
9:26
these topics aren't really like they're big, you know, it's not
9:29
like this is an everyday thing. And I think it works with when
9:33
like his his diagnosis, like his cancer diagnosis, like he's been
9:37
having all these different symptoms, but the man just
9:40
doesn't like do anything about it's like this malaise.
9:43
And I don't have that. As you get older, is this maybe
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life just becomes sort of like every day in a way and like he
9:50
doesn't want to face it, but I just want that very, very
9:52
interesting. I feel like I am definitely the
9:55
kind of person that doesn't like to face things and just will
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muddle on and not make any big decisions.
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So I do feel like there was that political mischief where I was
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like, if I don't know what to do, I'll I get the road trip
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idea. It's just like, I can't think
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about this. I don't want to deal with this.
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Let's just have a road trip and all think about these things as
10:14
like, I think that would be the ultimate way of, of dealing with
10:17
this kind of thing. So I, I feel like I did relate
10:19
to it, but I love the start. I thought the start was really
10:21
good and I just, the writing just more annoyed me and annoyed
10:26
me. And I think, do you know, I was
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trying to pinpoint what exactly it was that really annoyed me.
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The amount of just everybody is just related to by their where
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they went to university, what their job is like.
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And it really, really annoyed me After a while.
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I was like, I don't. And I maybe if because I suppose
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all these people that read it and enjoyed it don't necessarily
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know exactly about like American universities or anything like
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that, But it was like kind of dropped all these names and
10:53
things. I was like, I've heard of this
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university and I know it's probably good, but I don't know
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enough about it to be like, Oh, that's your typical Columbia
11:01
man, or like that's your typical whatever.
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Like I don't know what that means.
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So I kind of was like, maybe I'm supposed to get something to it,
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but I thought there was such superficiality.
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And I get that that was probably intended, but I just found it
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annoying. I was like, I don't care that
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this person went to Yale or what their grade point average was.
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Don't care. No interest.
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What are they like? As a person, that's what
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interests me. Do you know what gets me?
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Like, I think when we were talking at the beginning there,
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it's there's all these ideas that come across and they could
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be so great, but the character comes off as if he just doesn't
11:35
care, like having no real opinion on the matter.
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And what he really reminded me of was, you know, people who
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always say what was me, what was me?
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This always happens to me, and it's like it doesn't always
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happen to you. I think you have to take charge
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of your own life and therefore if you let all these things
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happen, it's not woe with me. You're just kind of letting it
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happen. But but I don't know if he, I
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don't know if he is woe with me. I think he's, I think in a way
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he's maybe jaded or, or cynical that he's almost not drawing
12:06
attention to it. He's like, it's just me, little
12:09
me. Like he's not like, oh, look at
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me. He's like, it's just my life and
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he's just getting on with it, you know?
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It's more like what was me and not like, oh, my wife cheated on
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me. But I'll stay, you know, I'll
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stay. I'll some.
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Murder. Almost.
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Yeah. That's really funny because I
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kind of agree with Colin, but not exactly.
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And but I definitely disagree with you, Hannah.
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I don't think that he is saying like woe is me and it to me,
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it's not like he's dwelling on these things.
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It's not like he's giving them as excuses for why his life
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turned out the way it did. It's not like he's complaining
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about his life. Like I don't get any of those
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things from him, so I don't see how he are from my perspective.
12:56
I don't see that this character, Tom, I actually found incredibly
13:00
relatable. And the fact that everyone is
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saying that he's just kind of this like wimp who's not able to
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like make up his mind or take control of his life or take
13:11
responsibility. I'm like, oh, Dang, I've seen
13:15
these as criticisms of me, which I know that they're, they're not
13:18
intended to be, but I don't know, I just, I really connected
13:23
with this guy and I was like, oh, I like his art luck on life.
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That's the art luck that I want to have on life, which is not
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judging people and not I think I give people the benefit of the
13:37
doubt a lot and I try not to hold things against people and
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just think, well, everyone has a bad day.
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Like people make mistakes. Everyone should be allowed to
13:51
make mistakes and change as a person.
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But I think he still does with his wife in that particular
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thing. I think he does hold a grudge
14:00
against her. And I think the most annoying
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part for me is like, I think the part that made me dislike him so
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much in a way is the thing about the marriage because that when
14:10
the quote divide on the best of times, their marriage was like a
14:14
great sea where they and I'm thinking, why would you stay in
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such an unhappy environment? Like even if you have kids, like
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surely it's better to have two people separated and be happy
14:25
than having your children people who are just so unhappy.
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I think something interesting about that, that you were saying
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that I was actually thinking about when I was skimming
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through again and was the fact that actually he maybe doesn't
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have like if he divorced her when she had the affair, he
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probably wouldn't have seen his kids that much really.
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And if you look at his relationship when he talks to
14:48
his brother and his brother has three kids and he's like living
14:51
in a separate place, It's like it would have been easier to an
14:55
extent. I'm not saying easier, easier,
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but like he would have, you know, there's that would be a
15:01
big risk for him. It's like he and his dad wasn't
15:04
involved in his upbringing that much.
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You know, his dad left. He wouldn't be seeing his kids
15:10
every day. He wouldn't be as active a part
15:12
of their lives. So I understand that actually
15:14
it's it wasn't really that easy for him just to be like, OK,
15:18
we'll divorce. But obviously he was like, I'm
15:21
not happy, but I'll wait until these kids are gone.
15:25
So that then I'll actually and he obviously reevaluates the
15:28
relationship that he has with Amy.
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And it's not all bad, that relationship.
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And I think that's maybe the truth in everybody's life.
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He feels like he should leave her because this is what people
15:40
expect you to do when this happens.
15:42
So he's like, I will, I will do it like he's like tells himself,
15:45
you know, like I will be that man who leaves my wife when the
15:49
kids grow up. I'm staying around for the kids.
15:50
But then I think he genuinely doesn't really want the fuss of
15:53
that. And I think he, like you said,
15:55
he's fine good things Lucy in in that relationship, Like he'd,
15:59
you know, there's it's not like horrific.
16:01
And like, I think to go back to the quote that you opened with,
16:04
which I think really ties us all together, like he his
16:08
relationship with his wife, they met at 26 or whatever.
16:11
People change over time. And you begin to to realize the
16:14
things you once fought for and cared about more than other
16:17
things would evolve and you don't care about them as much.
16:19
Things you can let go by and your priorities change.
16:23
And I think like that, that to me is why this book feels like
16:27
maybe if it's not relating to a lot of people, it's because
16:30
maybe we haven't experienced this unlike such a long, long
16:34
time scale in our lives, You know, Well, I've, I mean, I've,
16:37
we've all, we're old enough now where we, we, we've personally
16:39
gone through change cycles. Like we've all changed as time
16:42
has gone on and our partners or whoever we're, we're with has
16:46
also changed. And I think it's it's surviving
16:49
those changes with those people that really make a relationship
16:52
like a healthy relationship. There's a specific quote that I
16:55
think summarizes Tom's art luck on life and his relationships
17:00
with all people in his life, whether that's his romantic
17:04
relationship or his relationship with his children, with his
17:07
parents, with his brother, with his friends.
17:11
Humans are complicated. They are contradictory.
17:15
They have good and bad sides, they say things they shouldn't,
17:19
they make mistakes, but that doesn't mean you give up on
17:23
them. So this is really interesting
17:25
because I have written about that exact conversation because
17:29
he's having a conversation with Michael, his son at the time.
17:33
And and basically it's kind of around and this is a bigger
17:36
theme throughout the whole thing of council culture.
17:39
And basically Michael is saying that this guy Kirkland.
17:43
So the whole the one of the scenarios is that a guy from the
17:47
Denver Nuggets, which apparently is a real basketball team, which
17:51
is ridiculous to me. I thought that was a joke.
17:53
I didn't really. I assume something to do with
17:56
pan handling and I have no idea but.
18:00
That makes sense. I'm assuming I don't know what.
18:02
Happened, yeah. Yeah, I know very little about
18:04
America. Kirkland is a guy who works for
18:09
the Denver Nuggets, and he has been inappropriate, obviously,
18:14
with women and minorities. We find out that he's done these
18:17
vague things. We don't know what they are.
18:19
Also something that kind of annoys me about Tom is Tom has
18:22
no interest in finding out what these things were like, the
18:25
specifics of them, but is kind of saying this thing about all
18:28
we need to give everybody a chance and we need to forgive
18:30
mistakes and things without actually knowing what's
18:33
happened. And this really reminds me of
18:35
like, and I could be completely wrong with this and I would love
18:38
more input about this, but I always feel with council
18:40
culture, especially with like university, like professors and
18:43
stuff, they'll be like a big headline that's like professor
18:47
counseled because she or he has like said something about some
18:50
minority or something like that. And then you actually read
18:52
through it and you're like, well, there's more to this.
18:54
Like there's so much more to this.
18:56
And also the the fact that it's like all seen as like, Oh, this
18:59
was woke people doing all this stuff.
19:01
And it's like, universities have to get like international
19:04
students on. That's why they make a lot of
19:05
money. So if a professor just blanketly
19:08
keeps stating things about some race, they're probably going to
19:11
have difficulties. It's not this big woke agenda.
19:13
It's like there's actually other things to this, but always it's
19:18
like made into a headline and it's made into like, and it's
19:21
kind of what Tom is doing with this whole thing.
19:22
He's kind of going, he said something that flattering about
19:27
women and he said some things about minorities.
19:29
And I think he says the N word a couple of times and it's like,
19:31
OK, those are all mistakes that he's made, but it's like he's
19:35
not actually thought to a think about it from the other people's
19:39
perspectives or why he said those words.
19:41
When he said what the context was of him saying the N word,
19:45
what the context was of him saying these flattering,
19:47
flattering and inverted commenting comma saying this.
19:51
But like what these flattering things are, He's never thought
19:54
to wonder more about this. He's just kind of taken this
19:57
really superficial view of like, oh, this man has been cancelled
20:01
because he's done something. That anybody could have done or
20:05
like a mystique or like all this thing where his son just says to
20:09
him, you know, we need a reset. We need these values and these
20:13
things kind of almost purged because we need to stop this,
20:17
like nip it in the bud. And he kind of, it's kind of an
20:20
interesting conversation that they have, which I think I
20:22
didn't see as being that interesting at the time when I
20:25
was reading at first. But when I reread it, I was
20:27
like, actually, there's more to this.
20:29
He has such a superficial view of like council culture or why
20:32
these things are happening and it did annoy me a wee bit when I
20:35
was rereading it, well reading bits of it, but I don't know.
20:38
What do you guys think? The way I interpreted what he
20:41
was saying was, look, he's trying to teach class.
20:43
He's trying to, like, provoke conversation that can sometimes
20:48
rub people the wrong way. The reason that I'm like
20:50
defending Tom here is because closer to the end of the book,
20:54
he is more woke, if you want to call it that.
20:58
And because he's contacted to basically help out on this
21:04
counter sue or suing of a university because the whites
21:09
athletes are being discriminated against because they're white,
21:14
because there's more like black people on the basketball team or
21:17
whatever. He's kind of sitting there being
21:19
like, this is complete rubbish. Why am I like does this guy
21:23
understand how idiotic he sounds talking about this?
21:27
He does understand how the world works and how modern society
21:30
works, so I don't think he was trying to justify the comments
21:37
made earlier. I think he was had a more open
21:41
mind about the context in which the words had been used.
21:45
I almost saw it and I think maybe this is what Ben was
21:48
trying to say with this was the fact that the guy that he meets
21:52
that is called Todd Grimmel, he is so garish about his views and
21:58
so not middle class about the way he's saying them.
22:00
And I almost thought it was like, he can relate to all those
22:03
professors and he can be like, oh, they're they just made a
22:05
mistake. Whereas he cannot see because I
22:07
think Todd walks in and he's wearing this T-shirt that says
22:10
like, prove me wrong. Kobe was a rape, a rapist.
22:13
And it's like he, he can't deal with that side of it because
22:16
he's obviously wants to be liberal and he is liberal, but
22:19
it's like he, he likes the fact that his friends could stay in
22:23
there, You know, the things that he the faux pas he might make.
22:25
He doesn't like the idea that they, that they could get into
22:30
any trouble. But he obviously is fine with
22:33
these people who are more, you know, you're, you're to the
22:37
right side of this and he can't deal with that.
22:40
That's what I kind of got from that.
22:41
I. Think we can all agree that the
22:43
council culture topics and racism have all been like
22:45
skimmed over in the book. But I think because it's kind of
22:48
from Tom's point, from Tom's point of view that he, he
22:52
doesn't think too deeply about these things, even if like it is
22:55
affecting his life. I think that ties in to the
22:57
whole malaise thing where he's like tired of almost living in a
23:01
way. Like he's just sort of going
23:03
through the motions and these things are happening and like,
23:07
you know, it is what it is. And like, while yes, Aaron, I
23:09
think your point about him trying to be open minded, I
23:12
think that's more his excuse in a way to not have to deal with
23:16
these things or think too much, too deep, too much deeper about
23:19
them. And his son, who was obviously
23:22
younger. And when he's talking to him,
23:24
it's like he's trying to wake him up in a way and like inspire
23:27
some energy. Whereas that's just not the kind
23:30
of character Tom is, Tom is. I mean, there's a lot of people
23:32
in life like this who just get by their day-to-day.
23:35
Like, they're not looking to get embroiled in anything.
23:38
They're not looking to be an activist.
23:39
They're not looking to to do anything of note or, or rumble
23:44
any feathers. Ruffle, ruffle, ruffle, any
23:46
feathers. So yeah, I don't know.
23:49
I think that's more why it's been skipped over in the book as
23:52
opposed to, I don't know, Ben. I think Ben is using that to
23:55
show the character of Tom. But at the same time, I'm like,
23:58
it would have been nice to have more of an in depth conversation
24:02
about cancel culture and in relation to like sports, you
24:05
know? Yeah, and I think that's the
24:08
point that gets me annoyed as well, is that with Tom also
24:12
being like an academic, you know, teaching, I just think
24:15
there's more of a responsibility of like educating yourself on
24:19
like those topics and talking about it.
24:21
I don't know, it's just skimming over it.
24:23
It just really annoyed me because I'm like, if you're
24:25
going to bring up such a big topic, why not actually deep
24:29
dive slightly into it, Like give it more time.
24:32
I think for me, I get annoyed out slightly is that this novel
24:38
came across to me as like this Great American road trip where
24:43
you would be like soul searching.
24:45
So I don't know, I expected this like whole part, I don't know,
24:49
just so much deeper to it. But like, I get, I get where
24:53
it's coming from in that to me there's not depth, but
24:57
discussing these topics, it gives me a bit more to it.
25:01
But I just felt it was so lackluster.
25:04
But I love this idea of him going on this road trip because
25:08
it also reminded me of going on my road trip with my friend
25:11
where we're like in Pittsburgh and then driving elsewhere.
25:13
But it's this idea that he stops around the way to all these
25:18
different characters and you get the sense of like who he was
25:22
during different time periods. But to me he always comes across
25:25
is that he just doesn't really have a curve or anything.
25:29
I don't know. What did you guys think when he
25:31
interacts with other people? Like even the ex-girlfriend?
25:34
I think the ex-girlfriend, like he, he does, he's fairly like
25:38
into her and like he goes to her for some reason, you know, like
25:42
obviously with his wife, the whole stuff with his wife, but I
25:45
think it's one of the best examples of him being like a
25:48
father. Like he's playing with her child
25:50
in the pool and he's like, you know, getting on really well.
25:53
And I think, uh, it's like, I think that chapter or that part
25:57
does like a lot for his character in terms of showing
26:00
he's, he is actually can be a caring person and he's not
26:03
always this lifeless sort of, umm, zombie who's going through
26:07
life. But I, I get where Lucy's coming
26:10
from by saying these are like stereotypes or whatever of these
26:13
like insert like stock character here.
26:15
But what I quite liked about them, for example, with is a
26:19
Jill is the girlfriend or the ex-girlfriend.
26:21
She, I mean, she says to him, like, I don't know what this is,
26:26
but I'm not going to sleep with you.
26:28
Like she very much like, do, you know, blatantly says this.
26:30
And he's he's like, that's OK. Because I think to him, he, he
26:34
himself doesn't know what this is.
26:36
Like he's, I think this ties into the title of the book The
26:38
rest of our lives. He doesn't know what's after his
26:40
relationship with his wife, after his children go.
26:43
He doesn't know what's like he's on the precipice of and I think
26:47
he himself, like, while you're talking about soul searching,
26:49
and I think he is he's searching for what's next, you know, this
26:53
next chapter and where's a lot of people like at our age, I
26:56
think like maybe we view Middle Ages being the end, you know,
27:01
but for him, this is like, you know, the start of something
27:03
new, but he doesn't know what that is.
27:04
So he's going to these different people to revisit to get a
27:07
better a grander sense of like his direction or or how he can
27:12
shape like his path going forward.
27:13
And like, yes, maybe he doesn't come to like a huge
27:16
revolutionary thing in the end and life happens regardless,
27:19
like with his his illness tosses him off course and stuff like
27:23
that. But I think I really appreciated
27:26
that side of the novel and that he was like the soul searching
27:29
angle, not like, not like Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, more
27:33
in in terms of, yeah, like he what's what's next, you know?
27:39
Since the other thing as well, I was really excited for the kind
27:41
of like road trip with his daughter because it's kind of
27:44
that's kind of something in the when you read like the blurbs
27:47
and the thing, it's like one of those things that's kind of sad.
27:49
It's like a road trip with his daughter and I.
27:51
Usually people it's like father, son, not father, daughter kind
27:55
of thing. So that's like, yeah.
27:56
I'm so excited for that. I've been on so many Rd. trips
27:59
with my dad and they are definitely I can confirm some of
28:02
the best times I've ever had in my life and probably the best
28:05
time so. Sweet.
28:07
So like my, me and my dad just drove from Belfast on the ferry
28:13
and got to Stranraer and then drove to England and and then
28:18
back again in like a weekend. And it was probably, I feel like
28:23
we did not talk about anything deep or say anything deep, but
28:26
we just had like the best time ever.
28:29
And I, I don't know if I could ever like recreate it or get
28:32
that back. But it was like there's just so
28:35
many things where I was like, I was so excited for that and I
28:37
was so excited to him. Maybe like even though they
28:40
didn't have to say anything deep or anything, but I just, I
28:42
didn't get that. And maybe that's something that
28:44
that annoyed me about the novel was because I didn't not that I
28:48
didn't relate to Miriam and I didn't relate to Tom, but I was
28:51
kind of like maybe hoping for like a really nice experience
28:55
between them and I didn't. It was like, Nah, it wasn't even
28:58
like I would have also taken a bad experience as well.
29:04
Like, right, that happened. OK, I don't.
29:06
I just didn't really, I don't know, maybe I was hoping for
29:09
something more with that element of it.
29:11
And this is a thing as well. I was like, there were so many
29:14
parts of it where I was like, I can so, you know, see people I
29:18
know or things in this. And then I I really felt like
29:21
they weren't fleshed out enough for me to care about.
29:24
And I was expecting to care about these characters.
29:26
I really was. I didn't.
29:28
I want to see if any of you know of this picture.
29:31
Do you know that one specific textbook picture from Secondary
29:35
school of the American Highway? And it's just got a whole bunch
29:41
of like billboards and like company signs and stuff, and
29:47
it's just like the famous image of like this is America.
29:51
Do you have any idea what I'm talking about?
29:53
The only one I can think of is the one where it's like a
29:55
highway that connects like 4 major like petrol stations with
30:00
like all the most American corporations like McDonald's.
30:03
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Then like it's a textbook
30:06
picture. Yeah.
30:07
Because I think that this book really reminds me of that.
30:11
Yes, right. And I have been on an American
30:14
road trip with my friend Katie. There was just something about
30:17
this road trip and you're like with someone and you're talking
30:20
about all these different topics.
30:22
I don't know. It feels just deep because it's
30:23
ours on the road, you know anyone with my friends just even
30:27
like chat with her. I just learned even more to her
30:30
than before. Or being silly and singing songs
30:33
from a musical we'd seen. But like, I feel like there was
30:36
just no depth in that with the character.
30:39
Like, but I love, I love that he went on this road trip.
30:43
I think that's one of my favorite parts because how many
30:45
times have I wanted to pack my bags and just run out the door
30:48
and like, just see where life takes you?
30:50
Oh, I wanted to care so much more than I did.
30:53
I think I'm angry at myself in a way of like, not enjoying what
30:57
this book could be. There has been like the the link
31:00
between him and Updike and I have read three of the rabbit
31:05
tech quadrology quadrilogy and he does, I think he mentions
31:09
Updike as well when in in the book itself.
31:12
And I was kind of like, I don't really know if I would see
31:16
myself agreeing with Updike about many things or like in in
31:20
his viewpoints. But what I would say is I think
31:23
that his writing was much better.
31:25
And so I feel like I was comparing especially the
31:27
basketball novel, American kind of middle-aged man.
31:31
There's a book, Rabbit is Rich, which is the third book in the
31:34
quadrilogy, and it's like, I think it's just a much better
31:37
book and it says much more about the era.
31:39
Whereas I felt like this was almost like perfection.
31:42
It was like it skimmed across all these things and never
31:45
really talked about them in any depth, which annoyed me.
31:49
It's just like the epitome of American capitalism.
31:53
And throughout this book, I really felt like you're just
31:58
hitting all of those points. You're like, there's so many
32:02
brands, there's so many like foods.
32:04
There's so many different parts of American culture also
32:07
intertwined throughout this. There's so many sport
32:10
references. There's Native Americans
32:13
mentioned, there's like black people in America is comes up
32:19
quite a lot and you have Jewish Americans.
32:23
You have then just like the stereotypical middle class white
32:28
Americans. I think that this to me is just
32:31
like the summary of like America.
32:35
Like tied up with a bow. But I just think it's like,
32:37
yeah, it mentions them. Yeah.
32:40
Like lackluster. Yeah, Native Americans.
32:42
Yeah, but but that's minding about them.
32:45
Like that's I do like I do not mean much.
32:49
Well, to me I did think this is the powwow that the Hannah
32:52
referenced recently. But I also don't know if this
32:57
book is trying to be the Great American novel.
32:59
I think it's trying to be a Great American road trip.
33:01
And I think that's the difference is it's not trying to
33:03
be the East of Eden. I'm glad iron that you feel like
33:06
it, you know, ticked these boxes.
33:07
And it felt like it was giving you like a good pastiche of
33:11
Americana that like you're used to.
33:12
But I think, yeah, I kind of agree with the others.
33:15
Like I think it, it wasn't aiming to do this.
33:17
And I don't know of a necessary need to do this, but I do think
33:20
it just flew by almost like roadside diners.
33:23
You know, we are just driving by these themes, you're driving by
33:26
these scenarios, all these different things.
33:29
But I think in my head that's not a problem with this kind of
33:32
book. Maybe it would be nice to dive
33:33
into that deeper. But yeah, I I don't have a a
33:38
bone to grind with it. When it comes to the basketball
33:41
bit, I was thinking when the one of the things is about him sort
33:48
of making up this story that he's writing this like novel
33:51
about basketball players. And I love in these books when
33:56
someone in the middle of like a scenario makes up something to
33:59
give themselves a purpose. Nice talking to you guys brings
34:03
up this whole like male female dynamic.
34:05
Because when I was reading through some of the reviews
34:09
about what people thought about the novel, people compared this
34:12
in a way of like certain books that help women or women relate
34:17
to say with like perimenopause or menopause.
34:21
Like, you know, there's big life changes.
34:23
Like this book is almost like that for men.
34:25
There's a book that was released kind of in the last year called
34:29
All Fours by Miranda July. So she's got like a 45, I think
34:33
year old woman who does or maybe is a bit younger than that 40
34:36
early 40s and who does a road trip from LA to New York.
34:42
And I find that novel much more entertaining.
34:45
I don't know that it said anything deeper about the human
34:48
condition or anything like that or like, but it's it's like it
34:54
was an entertaining novel. I've seen a lot of comparisons
34:56
between the two books. I see similarities in that
34:58
they're road trip novels. I preferred, I have to say, on
35:01
an entertainment level and like a the way it's written level.
35:05
I would prefer All fours by Miranda July.
35:09
I think it's interesting that this book to me really deals
35:14
with how men can dismiss their own health and not go and get
35:21
things checked out. And like basically everyone that
35:25
Tom interacts with is like, you need to go to the hospital like
35:29
right now. And he's like, no, no, it's
35:31
fine. I've been to the doctor like
35:32
it's long COVID, like, I'll be fine.
35:35
And even that's what we're reading.
35:36
We're like, this isn't normal like like his symptoms just keep
35:42
getting progressively worse and worse, but I.
35:44
Think I love that his daughter calls him Puff Daddy because his
35:47
face swells off. That's comedy gold.
35:51
But I do think that it speaks to the experience that a lot of
35:57
middle-aged men have of not actually like looking after
36:01
their health. I think that particular part
36:04
about the novel, about the health issues is relatable to
36:08
all people because like, as myself, as someone who's going
36:13
through like health issues or constantly having to speak to
36:16
specialists about endometriosis and having them just dismiss you
36:20
and telling you to do one thing or the other.
36:22
Like Tom has went to the doctor and they've just told him he's
36:25
long COVID. So what's the point of going
36:27
back and fighting, you know, if they're just continuously saying
36:30
the same thing? So I really, I thought that part
36:32
for me was relatable of like the constant battle of having to
36:36
advocate for yourself. It's just, it's just so
36:39
draining. It's almost like, why bother?
36:42
You know in that way. What what do we think of the
36:44
ending where he actually does get diagnosed and he has cancer
36:48
and he kind of has to get immediate treatment in LA when
36:53
he's arrived with his son? Like, do we think that that felt
36:57
like that was a good ending? Like, do you feel like it?
37:01
It kind of everything was heading to this.
37:04
I mean, I feel like it was probably heading towards he had
37:08
cancer. Like, I feel like there was, I
37:10
don't know, something in the novel that made me think that it
37:15
was going to be a bad diagnosis. I don't know if it was like a
37:20
great ending. To me, I think it ties into the
37:23
overall themes of the book in which he has he can no longer
37:27
like run away from this. He he's thought all about like
37:30
it's been on top of him this entire time.
37:32
Like it reflects the metaphorical stuff of his wife.
37:35
Like he's like, should I leave her now that like daughter's
37:37
away to college and this has been hanging over him.
37:40
But he knows he has his symptoms and he's symptoms and he's
37:43
ignoring them. He's got these symptoms of his
37:44
relationships too. You know, he's ignoring them.
37:47
And I think it hits home physically that he has reached a
37:50
point where he has to face these things and he actually has to,
37:53
like, decide what's next. Like things are going to happen
37:56
to him regardless whether he likes it or not.
37:58
He just has to choose. I felt like it was quite a not
38:01
obvious like, because obviously like when you're reading through
38:04
it again, like I've said, his descriptions are horrific of his
38:08
illness. And so I do think, you know,
38:11
something's going to come, like something's going to happen
38:13
here. It's like there's a bit where
38:14
you go swimming in a pool and he's like completely blue and
38:17
you're like, yeah, everyone's terrified.
38:21
Everyone wants to from the doctor and all this stuff.
38:23
And it's like he's kind of like, that's OK.
38:25
It's just, it's just me. That's just the way I am.
38:27
And you're like, well, if this had ended with him not, you
38:32
know, I don't, I don't really know how it would have made of
38:34
it. I think it was always heading
38:36
that direction. I think my issue was I don't
38:40
feel like I'd warmed up enough to him to care, which I feel
38:44
really bad about saying that noise, but it was like I was
38:48
kind of like, and I don't know enough about his relationship
38:51
with all these people. I know that he has these kind of
38:53
different viewpoints than his family members.
38:55
And he's obviously going through something where he feels he's
38:58
almost going to leave them all, you know, in a way, because he's
39:00
had to say goodbye to his daughter.
39:01
He said goodbye to his son. He's maybe going to be saying
39:03
goodbye to his wife and the idea that he's going to be on his own
39:06
and what that means for him. But like, I wasn't emotionally
39:10
invested in it enough for me to be.
39:14
I agree with you. To think it could have been a
39:17
really compelling and amazing ending.
39:19
Personally, I think that that tells me like, what I'm feeling
39:23
about a book is when something like that happens to your
39:25
character and I'm like, OK, that was, I mean, it wasn't
39:28
inevitable. And yeah.
39:31
I just don't think I enjoyed the way it was like wrapped up in
39:34
the end. And then the part is, well,
39:36
we're like his wife comes and they're almost just like
39:39
accepting. I just think for me, the
39:42
relationship with why do I have such a problem with the wife and
39:46
Tom? Like Amy and Tom, I'm just like,
39:49
oh, I think it's that thing. I always have her.
39:51
If you're unhappy, why would you put yourself through it?
39:55
By understand, I suppose people with children view that
39:58
completely different. But the way it just ended as,
40:01
you know, this idea that he's like, oh, I'll just be back with
40:03
her. In my head I was like, because
40:05
he's ill and he doesn't want to be alone, so he'll just stick
40:08
through her. I kind of do think he likes her,
40:11
I think. I think there is something
40:13
there. There's some I don't think I
40:16
don't. Yeah, sorry.
40:18
Go ahead. Well, I don't think that he ever
40:21
was intending on properly leaving her.
40:23
I think he just needed space and that he was just looking for
40:26
like a change of scenery and he just wanted to see what the
40:32
possibility was. But like, he never actually had
40:36
a plan of staying away and he was just like, OK, I'm going to
40:39
turn my phone off for a few days and I'm going to like not have a
40:44
plan of what I'm going to do. So I think he was always going
40:47
to like I was never in doubt that he was going to return to
40:50
her. It's not like he had fallen out
40:51
of love with her. There's just, I do think just I,
40:55
the one thing that I do agree with you on Hannah, is it did
40:58
feel very convenient that all of their, eh, family dynamics had
41:06
been cured by this diagnosis. And they kind of were like, oh,
41:12
there's bigger things to worry about.
41:14
Let's all be a big happy family. And I was like, really?
41:18
I don't know if it should have ended.
41:20
I don't know. I don't know if that would carry
41:22
on after the book. I think it's like this is a
41:24
watershed moment, but I don't think that's actually fixed
41:27
anything. It's like, you know, everyone
41:29
comes to those conclusions, but that that the a month after, you
41:33
know, things will be different. The issues are on pause.
41:36
Yeah, well, he's gravely ill. Yeah, there was one part.
41:41
There's one part on the road trip and they're talking about
41:44
he wants to like ring her, but he's thinking there's a part
41:47
where he says something like he knows if he rings her, it's like
41:50
not the version of her that he's thinking about.
41:54
So I just, I just struggle because yes, there's one point
41:57
that he or like appeals to me. Like was there a period of time?
42:00
Obviously they were in love and he loved her and they got
42:02
married and stuff and then she had this affair.
42:05
And I'm kind of like, it's OK that you don't like her as much
42:08
as he once stayed because she portrayed your trust in a way.
42:13
But oh, I don't know. That's funny because I don't see
42:17
that as how he sees her, but more her attitude has changed
42:22
and she used to be all doting and like lovable and now she's,
42:28
uh, the mother who is giving out about the daughter and like
42:35
finds issues with him and he's just like look, like he, he,
42:40
whenever he thinks about her, he like lies in bed and talks to
42:43
her, but like she's not there like he.
42:45
So he's still in love with her and he's still wanting to like
42:48
share all of these experiences with her.
42:51
And he knows her so well. He knows how she would respond.
42:54
But at the same time, he's like, look, I don't want to actually
42:57
call her right now because I don't want that perfect image of
43:02
her to be tainted by how she's immediately going to respond to
43:07
react in this moment. No, I just to me, right, OK, To
43:12
me, like, you can love someone, OK, Right.
43:15
But I didn't think he's in love with her.
43:17
I think it's just that he's known her for such a long period
43:20
of time that he's so used to her being around.
43:23
So it's that idea of like her absence you, you know, because
43:27
he's thinking of this version. I think in my head, it's like
43:29
this version that he once loved of this perfect version of her
43:33
that he has. And he doesn't want to call her
43:35
because that shatters that it's not actually what it is.
43:39
And I think it's fine. Almost like to be like they're
43:42
not in love, but to still have a companion, you know, I don't
43:46
know. For me, there's like, almost
43:47
like a separation of the two. We are getting the perspective
43:50
of middle class whites, a highly educated man, and that, from my
43:57
impression, goes against the modern day Booker.
44:01
And you don't. Think that's true.
44:03
I think that that is this is the thing that also annoys me a bit
44:06
about the book is it's like, I think they think that everybody
44:10
is like middle class white man bad and we all hate them.
44:15
But it's like you still have to you still have to make a good
44:18
book. Like there's so many good books
44:20
about middle class there. It's not that's not, I don't
44:23
think that that's 100% true. I think there was better books
44:26
about men in this the longest. And also there's better books
44:31
about men written like I don't, I think that's yeah, I think
44:36
that's such a it's an annoying argument because like you almost
44:39
can't win. It's almost that kind of like,
44:41
oh, you're woke in inverted commas.
44:43
So therefore everything you say is just flippant and means
44:47
nothing. But I don't think I'm critiquing
44:49
this book because it's from the perspective of a middle class
44:52
white man. I mean, I'm also white.
44:54
Like I'm, you know, and I'm not, again, I'm not middle-aged.
44:58
I'm middle class, not his level of middle class, but middle
45:01
class. So I don't, I think that there's
45:03
so much and I was so looking forward to really hearing this
45:06
perspective, but I just did find it really, really blonde.
45:09
I think there's many more books that have a better perspective
45:12
of the middle class white man. For my segment of Dog Eared and
45:16
Weird, the whole chapter about the Amy having like a stalker,
45:22
like I'm not really sure what it added to the novel, you know?
45:27
I mean, I think it's just giving, I think that's giving
45:29
contact. Like it's, it's one of the
45:32
things where the book is actually trying to give a bit
45:34
more depth to things. I think it's just showing that
45:36
these people's lives are complex and even though like we don't
45:40
fully know the outcome, we don't know if that if it was true or
45:43
not, if she had feelings for the the girl in her class or not.
45:46
It's more just showing that like, you know, people have
45:49
things going on each people even like you could have this novel,
45:52
half the view of it could have been from from Amy's point of
45:55
view and it would have been like a completely different novel
45:58
because she would have been seeing things and we would have
45:59
got her viewpoint differently. I think this is scratching that.
46:03
I mean, as it is most themes scratching at that to be like,
46:06
Oh, all these people are complex and I think you just.
46:10
Sold a better novel of like. Half, that would actually be
46:14
quite good. Yeah, half and half.
46:15
That's that's quite interesting. I would because I would love to
46:19
learn more about maybe the more dynamics of their relationship
46:23
in a way. And also it ties into the rest
46:25
of our lives because then it's their lives is in like sure, you
46:29
know, it's like what's after this for us?
46:31
Yeah. Like once the children leave,
46:33
like, how do they either merge together or, you know, or live
46:38
like as just companions? Or whatever, Yeah.
46:41
Yeah, love. Thing and it just another part
46:44
that I was thinking could be a contender for the dog eared
46:49
section of like the most notable for me.
46:52
It was when he arrived to on the outskirts of Las Vegas and he
46:58
was trying to get into a restaurant before they shut and
47:01
there was like a 17 year old girl with a skateboard who was
47:04
like, I think I've. Dislocated myself.
47:07
Oh yeah, yeah, that was it. Yeah.
47:09
Very random because it never gets caught up again.
47:12
Because she was like, can you Take Me Home?
47:14
And he was like, I don't know who this girl is.
47:16
She's a teenager. Like, she doesn't want to go to
47:19
the hospital. Like, this restaurant's about to
47:22
close, and I am starving. So like, I'm just going to
47:25
refuse to, like, help her. And he thought that like, maybe
47:28
she was going to like, break into his car or something.
47:31
No, I get why men or maybe women would be afraid to pick up a
47:39
younger person or like someone and put them in their car.
47:42
It lead to like allegations or things like that.
47:44
So we get that. But then I think about this
47:46
novel and how it's America and how you wouldn't want someone to
47:49
call the ambulance for you. Like if that happened here,
47:52
someone would probably sit with you and from the ambulance or
47:56
wait for someone to come. Whereas it's America, you don't
47:59
want the health bill cost. So I got that.
48:02
But yeah, that part is a bit weird.
48:05
And it happened in the exact same time that the like, I don't
48:08
know if it was a powwow, but when the Native American like
48:11
night was happening, yeah. And I was just like, what am I
48:16
missing here? Because I feel like there's more
48:18
that's happening and maybe maybe it's supposed to be this is what
48:23
happens on the outskirts of America.
48:26
And like, they're not in a major city right now.
48:29
They're they're in like suburbia.
48:32
And this is where the native people are based.
48:36
And this is they have to get in touch with their culture by
48:41
having one night a week where they can like show up and like
48:44
do it. They're like traditional dance
48:46
together. And at the same time, you have
48:49
this girl who very easily either could be injured and is like, I
48:57
don't have the health care to get treated, or she is some kind
49:03
of like criminal mastermind who is trying to take advantage of
49:07
him, maybe steal his car or maybe make allegations.
49:11
And but I think that maybe that was just showing like, this is
49:15
the kinds of people who live on the outskirts of society maybe.
49:19
Aaron, I love when you actually finish the book and you give us
49:22
like some perspective that I wouldn't even think of, like at
49:25
all. But now that you mention this as
49:27
well, when I think about when he goes to dinner with his, wait,
49:33
is that his ex-girlfriend? Is that what she is?
49:35
Yes, yeah. So when he goes to dinner with
49:38
his ex-girlfriend, is this like also reminds me of the way he
49:42
can like slot in with people. Like obviously he's like a
49:45
pleasant man who can get on with everyone you know and chat with
49:50
everyone, but like him not, it's just like what he comes across
49:54
as not having a passion or caring.
49:57
Or maybe he's just like, I don't know, like nonchalant about
50:02
things, just like, Oh well, like, I don't know, I maybe I
50:06
just need a more like, caring or like passionate like character
50:12
in a novel for me to like grip onto.
50:15
And just two more points that I I wanted to bring up. 1 is the
50:20
use of American sports throughout the entire thing.
50:25
We feature so many sports whether it's American football,
50:28
basketball, frisbee, I can't think there's there's multiple
50:32
different sports that come up college level and literally just
50:37
like out playing with your friends, playing by yourself
50:40
actual like full on professional games happening.
50:43
Everyone is like defined by like this is how he connects with
50:48
people is how he makes like the valves.
50:51
His relationships with people is based around sports.
50:54
And I think that that's just a very, very stereotypical man
50:59
thing. Maybe it ties into like, his
51:01
whole youth thing and like, him looking past, reflecting in the
51:04
past and like, sports means a lot to men as they grow up and
51:08
like a college level. Do you know they're still
51:10
involved with sports? But then after that, they're
51:12
like adrift and like, then they have to make up the rest of
51:15
their lives. So maybe it's the fact that
51:18
because like, there's a purpose in a way, like sport gives you
51:21
purpose. But then after that, like,
51:23
what's next? So he's clinging to this in a
51:25
way because it gives him a sense of purpose, maybe.
51:27
And it gives you community as well I guess.
51:30
Yeah, I think sports is like one of those universal things that
51:33
no matter where you are or whatever country you are, like
51:36
there's always something that you can relate to, you know,
51:39
like being part of a team or like a joint activity type
51:42
thing. So maybe that's it's a way of
51:44
like trying to connect people with these different characters
51:48
in a way like the author tried. Because I was thinking, is it
51:51
all these references maybe because the author is American
51:55
and therefore that's like most American people love sports.
51:58
But then on a bigger idea, it's like everyone will have a sport
52:01
or something that they like. So.
52:02
And the other thing that I had noticed throughout constantly
52:07
was everyone's height was mentioned.
52:11
Oh, I didn't even talk on to that.
52:13
What literally every single character we were given?
52:17
What height they were constantly?
52:20
Why does? That matter like I don't get it.
52:23
I think that I think that's just maybe like a writing trick trait
52:27
or something that he may, he must just like put that in.
52:30
Do you know? I don't know if that's there's
52:31
anything deeper to that. I think I bet if you looked at
52:33
his other books he probably says the exact same things.
52:36
Yeah, I. Think writers of ticks that you
52:38
can begin to pick up across different books.
52:42
I was wondering if it could just be that thing of, do you know,
52:44
like men are obsessed with like, like who's taller and like kind
52:50
of does that put you like into a more dominant position or
52:55
something? I could see that, yeah.
52:57
And like, I guess basketball is all about height.
52:59
And maybe he's always still relating that in a way to, like,
53:02
these people wouldn't be capable of being in basketball because
53:05
they're not, like, maybe because he's been in that world for so
53:08
long. Do you know this is what he he
53:10
thinks about? Well, one thing in particular
53:13
that I did notice and I could have just missed it because I
53:16
was skimming through, but whenever he ended up in
53:19
hospital, he stopped mentioning everyone's height because maybe
53:23
he was preoccupied with other things.
53:25
I don't know. I wish we could ask the author
53:27
all these questions sometimes being like, did we pick up on
53:30
something that has like no significance, like, oh, I'm
53:34
wondering, Colin, do you have an alternative title for this one?
53:39
I actually think the Rest of our Lives is a very, very fitting
53:43
title for this book because like I think like that's the thing
53:46
that I'm taking away from it is like, I don't know if any of you
53:48
have read The Remains of the Day about Kazuri Shiguro, but The
53:52
Remains of the Day is such an important title.
53:54
It's pretty much talking about the rest of people's lives.
53:58
Very, very similar title, just maybe a bit more poetic and it
54:02
ties into the greater themes of that book.
54:03
This book is very, very similar to that book and that it's
54:06
talking about what comes next. Uh, and I think like, yeah, this
54:09
I, while I prefer the remains of the day because he's talking
54:12
about this man in the book. So in Remains of the Day, this
54:16
man is at, he's like 60 and he's in the evening of his life.
54:20
So he's saying the remains of the day.
54:21
What's he going to do with the remains of that day of his life?
54:25
And very, very similar to this. But that's, that's kind of what
54:28
I picked from it. I actually think it's, I mean,
54:29
it ties it up again, it's not over the top.
54:32
It's very streamlined, just like the rest of this book is.
54:35
I do have to say that I have a read it and eat it for this
54:39
episode. There was so many foods that
54:43
were mentioned throughout this and so many drinks.
54:45
There was like the classic Cherry Coke.
54:49
Very Americana. So what did you choose, Aaron
54:53
and. So I my plan was to make an
54:56
apple strudel and which they're served close to the start, but
55:01
then I realized that that's way too much work.
55:04
So I made, I made pancakes and I had, well, I had some honey
55:10
because I don't have any Maple syrup.
55:12
But yeah, they eat pancakes multiple times throughout.
55:17
And so I thought pancakes are easy to whip up.
55:19
So I had a nice little pancake while we were chatting.
55:22
So we've had some listeners share their thoughts on the rest
55:26
of our lives as well. This week, Eleanor Hodge said I
55:30
had deeper thoughts when I was four years old than the man has
55:34
in this book. I agree, Eleanor.
55:37
A few of Chai Favorite Things merely give us the looking eyes
55:42
emoji. This is also obviously in
55:44
reference to. I know that A Few of Chai
55:46
Favorite Things has posted not so great review about this book
55:50
too, so I think that's more nod to that than anything.
55:54
Then we also have Patrick Holloway, who wrote a novel that
55:59
Lucy had mentioned in one of our recent episodes, The Language of
56:03
Remembering, and he said that he's halfway through this book
56:07
and he loves it. So that's another man on this
56:10
side of this book. Yeah, it's definitely a mixed
56:12
bag. Is it?
56:13
It's just like all the females are hating on Ben right now in
56:17
his not. Dimfna, not dimfna.
56:20
Oh yeah, that's true. Speak Speaking of Dimfna, we we
56:22
have we have her thoughts on whether or not this book is
56:26
going to potentially win the Booker brows.
56:29
Do I think The Rest of Our Lives by Ben Markovitz will win the
56:32
Booker? Sadly not.
56:35
I just think there's better books on the list, and for me
56:40
the one that really stands out is The Land in Winter by Andrew
56:44
Miller, a fantastic and very deep and sometimes rather
56:50
strange account of two couples during the big freeze in Rural
56:57
England in 1962. This is a standout novel for me.
57:02
Well, let's see what we all think.
57:04
Lucy, what are your thoughts? What what are you giving this
57:08
book out of five and do you think it is potentially going to
57:12
win? I'm going to give this book a
57:15
2.5 out of five. I think the writing's fine.
57:20
It's good enough and I just think it or conversation about
57:25
it I think has been better than the book itself.
57:27
I felt very little for any of the characters.
57:29
Meh, I find it do. You think it could win?
57:33
Oh yeah, it probably will win my least favorite book 100%, and
57:38
everyone will be talking about what an amazing book it was and
57:41
all this stuff, and I'll be furious.
57:43
I feel like it's not for a Booker book.
57:45
It's not trying to do anything particularly exciting and it's
57:48
playing it very, very safe with what happens in it.
57:52
And for me that's like, that can't be a Booker winner.
57:55
You can't play it that safe. Colin, what do you think?
57:58
I actually like this a lot. I'm going to give it a 3.5 out
58:02
of five, which is the highest I've given.
58:04
I mean, audition is draw. It draws with that.
58:07
I have really enjoyed our conversation and I really
58:09
enjoyed the themes and and stuff that it made me think about.
58:14
I, I definitely think it could win.
58:18
I don't know. It's definitely above the land
58:21
and winter for me, but we'll see.
58:24
I don't know. It's it's tough.
58:26
It's a toss up. I think it was better than
58:28
flashlight to me as well. At least I got more out of it
58:31
than I think I got out of flashlight.
58:32
I thought like Lucy our discussion about the book made
58:36
me not like the book more but just like the idea of talking
58:40
through these bigger ideas and wondering when I hit like
58:44
midlife or if I have children will I relate to this book or
58:48
things in it way more. I also can't believe you got
58:51
more out of this book. Well I can see why there's
58:55
points for you to get more out of flashlight but I just thought
58:57
flashlight was so much better. I didn't get enjoyment out of
59:00
this book. I think for me I can say that
59:03
the writing style I quite liked and it was an easy read which
59:07
was good but the overall I just couldn't connect.
59:10
Thought there was like no real good plot or we deep dived into
59:14
anything. It was like a sprinkling of all
59:16
little things. So I'm going to be really harsh
59:18
and give it a 2.5. Do I see this book winning the
59:22
Booker Prize? No Do I wanted to win?
59:25
Definitely not. So this is only the second book
59:28
from the shortlist that I've completed and I am enjoying this
59:34
one so much more than Audition. And so for me, it's going to get
59:38
a four out of five. What?
59:42
You know, I don't do point fives.
59:45
Yeah, I actually really enjoyed this book and I would be
59:50
completely fine with it winning. I'm excited to read the rest so
59:54
that I can see what it it does face off against, but I I
59:59
wouldn't be upset of this book 1 now.
1:00:01
Let's judge our next book by it's cover, Flash by David
1:00:04
Salloy. I think this one could be
1:00:07
interesting. Well, I mean, yeah, I'm open to
1:00:11
it. Flash cover I found a bit.
1:00:13
Yeah, it was OK. But yeah, it's exciting that
1:00:17
we'll be diving straight into another book about a narrator
1:00:20
that is very passive, but he definitely is much more passive
1:00:27
than Tom. I'm excited for you guys to read
1:00:31
this one. I really enjoyed it when I
1:00:34
previously read it, so I'm excited to give it another
1:00:36
reread and see if I can see anything more.
1:00:39
I'm really looking forward to our discussion about it because
1:00:42
I feel like there's bits and pieces we can pick out.
1:00:45
What do you think, Aaron? I'm going to do this one by
1:00:49
audiobook and to make sure that I get it all wrapped up.
1:00:55
I am not particularly excited for it, but I'm open minded.
1:00:59
We'll see. You know, when we first talked
1:01:02
about the book, Aaron, when the shortlist or no, the long list
1:01:05
is mines, I think me and you were both like, Oh no, But when
1:01:09
I read it, it's just completely different than what I imagined.
1:01:13
That's them in the description. So I'm excited to see what you
1:01:15
think. Yeah, yeah.
1:01:17
Well, we'll see about that in our next episode.
1:01:20
Read along and share your thoughts on Instagram at Bookies
1:01:23
favorite book club. You can also e-mail us at
1:01:26
bookiesfavoritebookclub@gmail.com. We'll be uploading an episode
1:01:30
each week until we finished the Booker Prize shortlist.
1:01:33
Subscribe on whatever podcast platform you're listening on so
1:01:36
you don't miss the next episode. And share this episode with a
1:01:39
book lover you think would like this book.
1:01:41
Read the podcast 5 stars thing and let's end on a final quote.
1:01:44
I had a sense of undigested emotional material which is
1:01:49
really just a disconnect between the totally normal passage of
1:01:52
time you happen to be in and the totally normal passage of time
1:01:56
that is about to follow, after which everything will be
1:01:59
permanently different. Bookies out.
1:02:06
Bye bye.