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MBA Wire Taps 445: 685 GMAT, South Korea. Take or waive the GMAT. 330 GRE, Product Manager. · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, September 1, 2025. Emory University's full time MBA powers growth in in your career, your leadership and your future. Built on a foundation of cross functional problem solving, leadership development and career readiness, this top 20 MBA program delivers a high return on investment with top five career outcomes. Step into a global network that's connected by design and supportive by nature. Explore the Emory MBA at Emory Biz ClearAdmit. That's Emory Biz ClearAdmit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, it's. I guess it's. What is it Labor Day in the US today. So technically a holiday, which is why we're recording this in advance. But what's going on with you?
• 1:07
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, everything's good. We had our August bank holiday last week, so we're always a week ahead of America. I mean that's just the way we live life over here. But, but yeah, no, everything's good. And we've got a busy week next week. The round one is sort of underway and lots of, well, not lots, but several round one application deadlines this upcoming week which includes Wharton and Harvard and Columbia. It also includes Duke and Darden have their early action rounds. London Business school has around one deadline. And who else? I think there's a couple of others actually side actually has a stage one deadline. So yeah, lots of activity. So things are heating up.
• 1:54
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I guess, you know, just to play that out further, you, you know, remember last week Cambridge had their deadline so they were like a week ahead of all the US schools. So that fits your, your idea that the UK is often out in front.
• 2:05
  Speaker B: Oh, of course.
• 2:07
  Speaker A: All right, what about. I, I know, you know, I don't know if anyone's noticed this, but there was a little feature added to the AI bot that Clear Admit Ask Ask Clear Admit. And I, I wonder if you wanted to comment on that.
• 2:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So we've now we've had this AI bot Ask Clear Admit out in the field now, maybe three or four months. We're learning a lot in terms of sort of developing it and improving it and training it on lots of our content and various other things. So I think it actually is answering questions with a lot more detail and insight and stuff. And we keep testing it as we go along. But we also added the feature where folks can upload a document. So a typical use case is, you know, attached is my MBA resume. Can you provide me some feedback As I tighten it up or something like that. Right. Provide me two areas that I can further develop. And the same maybe with draft essays. I mean, we certainly don't encourage folks to use these bots to write essays, but certainly to get feedback on your essays. I think it's a huge use case. So we're starting to see that. And I think the insights that it can provide can be super valuable.
• 3:20
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, you know, you continue. I know this is like, really something that you've been leading the charge on, but, you know, we produce so much content. We do all these webinars, we're interviewing admissions directors, everything, and all that stuff gets pushed into this rag, or I don't even know what that stands for, but our kind of, you know, the brain of the bot. And so it's getting smarter and smarter. And yeah, I'm kind of waiting for it to write me a note saying, watch your back, I'm coming for your job. But, you know, so far it's behaving. But no, it is really amazing, like, how good it is at answering questions. And why wouldn't it be? I mean, it's basically based on everything that, you know, we've said over the years written, and so it makes sense. So, yeah. So everyone hopefully is enjoying that. It's pretty useful at this time of the year when you're getting everything together for apps. We're going to. One thing we did last week is we did a live stream. You and I held, like, kind of office hours over on YouTube. So we streamed live and we're going to do it again on September 23rd. We'll hang out for an hour. I don't know if they're listening, but the folks who came to that. I asked some fantastic questions, Alex. I had a lot of fun during that hour, and it was, like, nonstop. I mean, we had a steady stream of questions and good ones for, you know, people applying. So really fun.
• 4:29
  Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm just hoping that I can get hold of the transcript so we can use that to keep training that bot. Because I think the Q and A was absolutely fantastic.
• 4:37
  Speaker A: Yeah, good point.
• 4:38
  Speaker B: And what a great opportunity. You know, I was a little bit skeptical how it would work. Obviously, I understand how Zoom works, so live streaming is a new world to me, but, yeah, I thought it. I thought it worked really well.
• 4:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. And speaking of events, in one week's time or a little more than a week's time, on September 10th, we begin our September series of discussions with admissions directors. So we have a webinar on the 10th at noon Eastern. It's all about kind of prepping for around two, but also we'll talk a bit about interviewing in round one. And I'm sitting down with admissions directors from Dartmouth, Tuck, Duke Fuqua, Georgia Tech, Scheller, Penn, Wharton and uva Darden. Right. So we have five schools and I actually got a peek at the guest list in terms of which you who are these schools sending? And it's some great admissions reps who I love to connect with. So it's going to be a lot of fun. It's like Jake Kohler from Wharton and Amy Mitson over at Tuck. And yeah, I've just been peeking to see who's who's coming. And so we're going to have some really fun conversations and we'll do that over the course of the following two Wednesdays as well. So we'll connect with more schools down the line. But, you know, including Chicago and Yale and Berkeley and a bunch of others. So you can sign up for these events at Bit Ly Ca Inside mba. So should be a lot of fun. Alex.
• 5:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, and if you can't attend, I mean, I encourage folks to attend, but if you can't attend, go to the bot the next week and ask what was discussed because it'll all be in there.
• 6:02
  Speaker A: Yeah, it knows. That's right. One other thing before I forget going back to our live stream, if you want to be alerted to our live streams, you just have to subscribe to our YouTube channel. So and you can do that at bit ly ca YouTube live. So yeah, just join us for those. Those are a lot of fun as well. And we'll keep doing them as long as people have questions in the news and not notes category. Alex, we continue to, you know, publish a lot of interesting stuff. Over@clearadmit.com there was a big piece that Peggy wrote on our team about DEI and how business schools have adapted. You know, there's obviously a different landscape. So, you know, she basically just a little comment from the article. She said the Trump administration's stance on DEI initiatives is clearly oppositional and the 2023 rollbacks on affirmative action by the Supreme Court turned out to be only the beginning. But she then goes on to really break down like so what are because there is still a value in having a diverse class in the MBA programs. Obviously people are going to go on to lead very international, diverse organizations. And so just some information about what schools are continuing to do. And it's obviously a complex kind of landscape. But I Thought it was a really nice article.
• 7:13
  Speaker B: Yeah, I'm just glad this isn't a political show. I have nothing good to say about politics right now.
• 7:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, these are interesting times for sure. Anyway, let's continue talking about MBA admissions and actually this is maybe some good news. So Duke launched a new degree. It's a. It's actually a joint degree. It's a master's in business climate and sustainability. So it's the two schools that are teaming up over at Duke University, obviously, one of which is the business school. And we have a quote from Laurie Benier, who is a dean and a professor of energy, economics and policy over at Fuqua. And she describes the program as addressing a critical talent gap in the intersection of business and climate science. She said it's designed for early career students with less than two years of post undergraduate work experience. Its curriculum will. Will provide a pathway for the ambitious individuals who hope to act as leaders in the sustainability field or to help the private sector manage climate risks. So it sounds kind of interesting to me. And that's a new offering from them.
• 8:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think these types of offerings are absolutely necessary and fantastic.
• 8:21
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. I know it's getting down to the wire with, you know, all these deadlines coming fast and furious, but we continue to also publish a bunch of, like, admissions advice on the site. And one of my favorite posts that we run every year is this post about word limits and character counts. So there's a whole long article about how you should approach that and whether you can go over word limits or character counts or not. And there's a little video as well that you and I recorded that speaks to that. So that was a good admissions tip we put up. And we also put one of my. One of the funnier ones, or I just think it's really well set up. It's this tip that's called 5 Questions to Ask yourself before submitting an Optional essay. And if you don't feel like going to the site and reading that, I'll tell you the five things are. Is your essay relevant? Was it requested? Is the content welcome? Is it constructive? And are you being concise so you can read the article for details on what that all means? But, you know, you do want to really give some thought before submitting an optional essay and make sure it's working to your advantage.
• 9:23
  Speaker B: Yeah. Because most optional essays are truly optional, Right? It's not. Oh, I've got this option to show my commitment to the process by adding another essay. It's more about. For most schools Only use the essay if you've got something to explain.
• 9:40
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I will say there are a few schools like you're pointing out, that are an exception to that, where they kind of seem to be nudging you to, like, throw something extra in. But, yeah, just. That's why that's got to read this tip and follow the instructions, because there's a. It's in is important. And then the last thing we did is we read another piece about. It's called avoid the comparison trap. And basically this is just. I mean, it should be kind of basic. But don't talk about other schools when you're applying to a given program. Right. So you shouldn't be sort of comparing, you know, school A to school B just to show school B that you really like them. So you have to be careful about that. And sometimes there is that temptation. So in any event, you can read the piece. But lots of good admissions advice and very timely as people are working on their apps and trying to get them in in the next few weeks.
• 10:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, very good.
• 10:24
  Speaker A: We continued with our professor profiles. This week we talked with where we explored professors at Stanford. And so we featured two. One is Jennifer Acre, and she is a professor at Stanford. She's a behavioral scientist. And I love this. She focuses on meaning, connection, perception, happiness, and storytelling. And she teaches this class. Well, several classes, but the one that stood out to me and that I think is a popular one, is called humor serious business. And she actually gave a TED talk about this. And it's all about, like, the use of humor as a kind of in. In the workplace and as a management tactic. And so she's. Yeah, she's really a great speaker. And it doesn't surprise me that she's on the. This professor profile for Stanford. Have you heard of her?
• 11:12
  Speaker B: I haven't, but obviously it makes me think about, you know, obviously my time at Wharton when we had the comedy club and stuff like that. I mean, obviously it's a very different reasons and so on and so forth, but I think Hume is super, super communications tool.
• 11:27
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. The other professor we wanted to feature at Stanford is Brian Lowry, and he's a professor of organizational behavior over at the GSB and he joined the faculty back in 2002. He studies the nature of human relationships. So it says here who people are, who they can become, and how they find meaning in their lives. He also directs an institute at Stanford. It's called the Institute for advancing just Societies. And he is the host of the know what you see podcast. So Another great professor at Stanford. I mean, I think these are, you know, these are tough to produce on our side because some of these schools have so many amazing professors. I mean, it's just. Yeah. So picking just two is really. Can be challenging.
• 12:11
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's absolutely. And I think it's a brilliant series, quite honestly.
• 12:16
  Speaker A: And speaking of that, I was talking to a Wharton student because I've been in the US For a while. I caught up with a Wharton student actually just last night and I was asking him about, you know, classes, and this person told me that they just had their butt kicked in, in a really kind of stats intensive marketing class.
• 12:32
  Speaker B: But that they love Peter Fader.
• 12:34
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I, and I said, did it happen to be Peter Fader's class? And he said yes. So, yeah. So great marketing professor at Wharton. Yeah. We, before we talk about this week's candidates, which I really want to get into because there are some interesting kind of, you know, concepts that are coming out from this week's candidates. But we had two more admissions director Q and A's. We caught up with Eric Askins over at Berkeley, Haas. Eric is just one of the nicest people in this industry and, you know, he shed some light on what they're doing with their application this year. And it's something that I had talked about briefly in a short video I'd made a few weeks ago. But he said our long standing prompt, what makes you feel alive is now a video essay. This is one of my favorite changes because it's a fantastic opportunity for you to show up authentically. The goal isn't a polished, high production video. It's a chance for us to see your passion, your energy and your personality in a way that words on a page can't always capture. It's a direct way to connect with the admissions committee. So I thought that was interesting. And you know, in the sort of AI world, you know, they're looking for, you know, just a sort of unvarnished, unpolished view.
• 13:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's. It makes a lot of sense. And I'm. Yeah, I think more schools are going to go this direction.
• 13:51
  Speaker A: I agree. We also caught up with if so obviously Vincent Haas. Go read that whole admission director Q and A because that was one of like 15 questions that we asked Eric to elaborate on. But we also caught up with Patrick Wallen over at ese he's the new Dean of Admissions. He used to work in Career Services over at esa. And you know, I thought this was kind of interesting. Alex. We asked about, you know, how things are structured, how the process works. That's one of the questions we ask everyone. And he said, our admissions team is organized by region to ensure candidates are assessed fairly based on the academic and professional context of their particular country of residence. Typically, the associate director managing regional events is the one responsible throughout the admissions journey. Our approach is very high touch and our team endeavors to show every student to. Sorry, to know every student who joins the mba. So I thought that was interesting because we don't always see schools dividing it that way, but you could see the benefits of like someone on the team being in charge of like, you know, Latin America or, you know, Europe or, you know, and really keeping things regionalized so that you can become an expert in, you know, the companies in that region, the schools that people are typically attending, et cetera. So I thought that was kind of an interesting point.
• 15:01
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, at Wharton we did a little bit of that, but not to the same degree, I don't think. But I do believe I was in charge of Europe.
• 15:10
  Speaker A: That makes sense.
• 15:11
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 15:13
  Speaker A: So the other thing though, that Patrick shared, and I won't read a quote or anything, but they have this thing called an assessment day. So they invite some of their candidates to come to campus and then they engage in like sort of exercises with other candidates. And it reminds me a little bit of the, you know, Wharton kind of leader, team based discussion type interview or something. But they, they have these like assessment days where they put you into kind of classroom type scenarios and then see how you, you know, kind of behave. And he kind of elaborates on that in the article. It's pretty interesting. So I encourage anyone applying to ESA in Barcelona to take a look at that.
• 15:47
  Speaker B: Yeah, very good.
• 15:48
  Speaker A: All right, so I think that's about it. Before we talk about the candidates, obviously, if you want to contact Alex and I just write to infoearadmit.com use the subject line wiretaps. But otherwise, I think we can talk about the folks that you've picked out for this week.
• 16:01
  Speaker B: Let's kick on.
• 16:02
  Speaker A: All right, so this is WireTaps Candidate number one. Our first candidate this week is looking to start school in the fall of 26. So they're currently applying and they have Berkeley, Columbia, Dartmouth, Harvard, Kellogg, Stanford and Chicago on their list. They have been working in technology and they're thinking about tech or maybe VC after business school. So as a result, they've got companies like Amazon, Apple, Meta, Google, etc, but also Andreessen, Horowitz, Sequoia, Capital and others on the list. They have a GMAT score of 685. That's a GMAT focus as everyone probably knows by now. But in case you don't, that equates to roughly 730 or maybe 740. On the old exam they have a 3.2 GPA, but we learned that that's converted. They actually attended the London School of Economics in London and they had a second class honors. So that's, you know, on the UK system, seven years of work experience which includes some time in the military. This candidate is currently located in South Korea but as you may have noted if they went to school at lse, they did also spend some time in London. They actually lived there for 12 years. So they moved there when they were younger and did their studies and all the way through university but then returned home to South Korea to join the military, which is a required thing in South Korea. So they did their couple years of military service and then have since been working. They were first working as an associate client services in a kind of research consulting firm, but more recently they're a manager for corporate development at an industrial AI startup. And they have quite a number of responsibilities in that role. And then you know, finally they had a number of activities. I mean they've had some significant leadership experience. They were a first lieutenant in the Korean Air Force. They were president of the Korean Air Force's Interpreting Officers Society and they, you know, just have done a number of things even when they were at lsc, some, you know, kind of student clubs and that sort of thing. In the longer term they do want to land in, in the States, as I said, working in either tech or maybe vc and I think that's kind of enough to get us going here. Alex, what do you make of this candidacy?
• 18:18
  Speaker B: Well, it seems to me that they've got really good professional experience and probably sort of professional experience that adcom, you know, would, would really appreciate, be able to show impact and growth and then working in the sort of the AI sector at an industrial AI startup, whatever that means. And they're in sort of business development and working on sort of relationships with big tech and so on and so forth. So I got to imagine that their professional experience is going to allow them to stand out to some degree. Their numbers I think are going to be fine. Right, so an LSE degree with the 2:1, I think that's probably going to be considered a good performance. The 685 GMAT, as you said, it's like 730 to 740. So the numbers hit squarely with the medians of the programs that they're targeting. I mean, obviously they're targeting top programs. It's sort of M7 plus Hass and Tuck, so they're in that. So it's all top 10, basically. So. And you know, their goals make sense, you know, technology, they want to transition to the U.S. there's more of a culture of sort of VC and various other things in the U.S. so all that makes sense, sense. And I think they've shown good leadership, whether it's through work and through some other experiences that they've had. Their leadership experience is going to look really good. Seven years of total experience, a little bit on the longer end of the spectrum. But that does include their military service, as you say, is required for people from Korea. So everything, I think, sort of checks boxes for what a top tier candidate needs to look like potentially. You know, I'd like to see a bit more on the hobbies and interest side or outside of work activity. They do a lot of travel and they list travel as an interest and stuff and you know, golf and cooking. So maybe that's the slight area of potential weakness, but everything else looks pretty strong. Graham?
• 20:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, and I think to the extent that they can, you know, at least speak to their, their roles in kind of extracurriculars when they, the military and when they were at lse, because it seems like there's, they were involved in both instances, I think that'll help. But yeah, I mean, I really like this candidacy. I mean there are a number of things that jump out at me. I think as you say, the numbers are square on. They're not off the page jumping out, but they're good enough to get into a top school. But what I really like is this kind of cross cultural experience that they've had. You know, they born in South Korea but then spent 12 years in the UK where they got their undergraduate degree. They've been in the military, but they've also been working more recently in AI. And so I just feel like they kind of have been dipping into a number of different sort of environments and cultures that would enrich the sort of classroom. So I like this candidate. We often think of military candidates as having a lot of kind of leadership experience and teamwork. And so, yeah, I feel like they have a good list of target schools. Yes, it's all top 10, but it's across the top 10. And I would think they will hit it at least one of these if they do a good job putting together their applications. So yeah, I'm overall pretty positive and you know, as you say, yeah, they might want to, you know, make sure they're playing up all their activities and outside interests. But again, I feel confident about this candidate. I think, you know, obviously it seems like they're going to do a good job on their applications too because they're asking the right questions here in their post.
• 21:50
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 21:52
  Speaker A: Yeah. So. All right, well I want to thank them for sharing their profile with us. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week is a bit of an early bird because I noticed that they put an intake year of 2027 so they would be applying like next fall to go the following. And they've got eight schools on their kind of target list at this point in time and those are Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Kellogg, Stern, Chicago, Booth, Wharton and Darden. Now their pre MBA career has been in hotel acquisition, in lending at the start and then more recently brokerage. So kind of a finance person. And they want to get into full on Investment Banking. Post MBA they have an undergraduate GPA of 3.57. They mentioned they went to a big state school but that it was not a top 100 type school. They have four years of work experience at this point located in Chicago. They would love to land in New York City at after business school. And this is where things get a little curious, Alex, because they posted to us in their notes they said I'm currently deciding whether it's worth it to take the GMAT and try for these schools. And so my, my first thought was are they thinking of like trying to apply without a test? But then I looked at the list of schools and I'm like these schools for the most part all require the test. So but what they're saying is they're, they're not sure about applying. They say, oh, I went to a big state school. I, you know, I do some volunteer work at Habitat. I'm going to be a key crew lead. But they're wondering, you know, do they have what it takes? They're sort of thinking that, you know, most of these schools on their target list want a 3.6 GPA. There's this 3.57 and they're, you know, from just a big state school which makes them unsure, they say. So they seem to be worried about their GPA and about the fact that they didn't go to kind of a brand name top hundred type school. But what do you make of this, Alex? Because I, you know, I, I'm gonna, I have a strong point of view on this, but what's your take?
• 23:51
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, quite honestly, I think they're underrepresenting themselves a little bit. I think that what they need to do is prep really hard and take the GMAT and see where it lands. And, you know, if it lands at the medians of these top schools that they. They're targeting, then absolutely, they, they need to consider applying to them and so forth. I mean, frankly, if they don't take the GMAT, then they're going to be targeting, at best, top 20, top 30 programs. Right. So there might be one or two in the top 16 that accept GMAT waivers. But, I mean, at the end of the day, they're really limiting their opportunity if they go down that pathway. And as you point out, if they're not applying this season, but they're applying next season, they got plenty of time to put in a lot of effort to get a really good GMAT score. So absolutely, that's what their next step needs to be. Graham, I don't think we need to even go into a whole lot more here other than the typical stuff. Is it good work? Is it showing growth and impact? The fact that they went to a top 100 school instead of a top 10 school, to me, that's less relevant than how they took advantage of their situations when they were there and so on and so forth. Their GPA is not awful. It might just be a, you know, a couple of hundredths of a point lower than the median or whatever. So, yeah, I just think they've got to put in a lot of effort and get a really good GMAT score.
• 25:28
  Speaker A: Yeah. So just to be clear, so they did say they went to a school outside of the top 100, but even so, like I, you know, a 3.57 is, you know, very much as you say, it's like, like right around the median for these top programs. So I'm not at all worried about their gpa. Even the fact that they went to a non, you know, not fancy school or something like, they majored in finance, they have a double minor, they've done well at work, the proof will be in the pudding, as you say, with the test score, because, you know, if I'm looking and I say, oh, what's this school that I've never heard of? Well, 357, not a bad GPA. I then immediately look to the test score because the test score will help level set. If they come in with a really low test score. I say, aha. That school that they went to might have been really easy. And so they weren't challenged. And therefore now that they're taking this test, we can see that they're not at the level. Whereas if they do reasonably well on the test, it just confirms, wow, okay, they're, this is a solid student. So they have time. I would recommend that they take a course online or, you know, whatever they need to do. Take a course to get ready for the test and plan to take the test twice. You know, not everyone's happy with their first score. Do that between now and let's say, you know, June of 26 and then in June they can start working on their applications and apply in round one. I'm sure that they have plenty of time over the next, like six to nine months to like, you know, work on studying and getting their test, you know, to where it would need to be. But I like this candidate and I think you're right. I think they are under, they're underestimating their, their profile and their capacity to get in. I mean, domestic candidates are sought after by these schools. They, they want to have, you know, us folks in the class too. And yeah, so I'm, I'm, I like this candidacy and think, yeah, they have time to take the test and let's just do it.
• 27:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, sounds good to me.
• 27:06
  Speaker A: All right, let's move on and talk about our final candidate, which is WireTaps candidate number three. So this candidate is looking to start in the fall of 26. So they are frantically working on applications as we speak. They have 11 schools on the target list. The schools are Berkeley, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Harvard, Michigan, mit, Kellogg, Stern, and Yale. This person's been working as a product manager and they want to be in the tech industry after business school. They have a 330 on the GRE and a 3.56 GPA. So very similar GPA to our last candidate. They have four years of work experience located in New York, and they actually point out that their 3.56 is from UT, Austin, Macombs. So they actually, they did a. Sounds like they have a dual undergraduate degree in business and humanities from University of Texas and the business part was McCombs. So they started off their career in consulting, did about a year of that, but then have since been a product manager at a startup for two years with one promotion and likely another forthcoming in around January. Their letters of recommendation would be from their direct manager who is an alum of Stern and the CEO of the company who is a Harvard Business School graduate. They are thinking about getting back into product management after the mba. They really enjoy that work. And they said in their comment, the weakest part of my application is definitely my gpa. And I don't think anything else really jumps out as amazing. I know GPA isn't the whole of what the ADCOM considers, but I'm not sure how much it matters that I'm below average for these programs as an overrepresented majority woman. So you then had some dialogue with this person and it turns out. One thing I wanted to share was that she's quite active. So she was really involved in undergrad, President of her sorority, managing a 1.2 million dollar budget, 250 members in the sorority. She runs a book review blog for the last three years. She reviews college admissions essays for high school students in her hometown. She volunteers as a proofreader. She works with kids in New York City coaching sports. And you know, so the list goes on. But Alex, so that's kind of the profile, but what do you make of this candidate and her questions?
• 29:28
  Speaker B: Yeah, again, I'm not quite sure what's going on here. They have a 356GPA, so a point lower than the previous person. And they're both recognizing that this GPA is a big problem, which again, it's only just below the median of the schools that they're targeting. I mean, yeah, maybe Harvard or whatever, maybe at 3.8 or 3.7 or something. But the end of the day she's got a 330 GRE, so for most top programs that's at the median or above. She's got what appears to be really decent professional experience, starting off in consulting, then going into tech product manager, a couple of promotions, getting letters from notable folks or whatever. You know, obviously I'm hoping that she's not just seeking out those folks because they're alarms. She's seeking them out because they're the two best folks that can write about her, her experiences and growth and impact and so on and so forth. But the fact that they are alums at some of these schools, that, that certainly wouldn't hurt. She, she, you know, likes to do stuff outside of work, get involved and engaged, both when she was an undergrad and now in New York City and so forth. So I mean, quite frankly, what's not to like here? If I was this candidate, Graham, I would probably select three or four of these programs in the first round. Go deep, you know, so she's Got Harvard on the list and Sloan and Kellogg in terms of M7 and maybe just one or two others and target those in round one and then see what they need to do in round two. I mean, I don't think she needs to apply to all 11 of these programs in round one. And she certainly doesn't need to necessarily have everything in, in round one because she's certainly not overrepresented. So I think there's a lot, a lot, a lot to like here.
• 31:23
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think there are a couple of, like, there's sort of some misunderstandings happening. So the first, as you point out, is that a 3.56 means you're, you know, not going to get into a top school or something. Like, she seems to be worried about that and I'm not at all concerned because she has a 330 on the GRE, which is a fantastic score.
• 31:38
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 31:39
  Speaker A: And as you say, puts her kind of AB at a lot of the top schools, or at least on par. So for me, as an admissions reader looking at her file, I would tick the box on academics and be like, okay, you know this person. I mean, not to mention she went to a decent undergrad where she studied business and humanities. So that box is ticked for me. I move on and start to look at everything else and everything else looks pretty cool. I mean, she has some interesting work experience. I think those two recs she's going to get are definitely from the people who are closest to her. I mean, you know, she has a direct manager and they both happen to have MBAs, which is great. And then I look at, like, her outside activities and interests and it just seems like someone who's very much involved. And the other big myth that I was puzzling over is she thinks of herself as overrepresented. And I guess it's because she's saying, oh, she's maybe a white female, but females in general are underrepresented still in the MBA applicant pool and very much sought after. So I'm not worried about her being overrepresented at all. I like her activities as an undergrad. I think she's doing some really interesting things, even, you know, in the current day with, you know, helping like, high school students at her old high school. I mean, there's some really nice things that she's doing. I agree with you. Pick a subset of these very best schools on her list, go for it in round one, and don't look back. And yeah, it's almost like there's a little imposter syndrome Happening. Like, I think she's. She's underestimating her ability to do really well in the application process and get into some of these top schools.
• 33:00
  Speaker B: Yeah. Maybe throw Wharton in.
• 33:02
  Speaker A: Yeah. That's conspicuously absent from this list of top schools. So I don't know if. I mean, she wants to land in New York, too, which, you know, Wharton sends a ton of people to New York because it's, you know, proximity. Right. So I, I.
• 33:12
  Speaker B: If I. If I was this candidate, I would look into Wharton. But actually, the bit. Well, she can look into Wharton in round two if she doesn't get into Harvard or whatever in round one. I suppose. Yeah. Sloan. But she has time for Sloan. Sloan's a few weeks away. Wharton is obviously next week.
• 33:30
  Speaker A: Yeah. So in any event. Yeah. So I, I want to just make sure she walks away from listening to this episode with a little more confidence. Feel like that's the ingredient that might be missing here. But in any event, no great candidacy. Appreciate her sharing her background with us. And, Alex, thanks for picking these out. I mean, I think we touched on some very interesting things. And I. I have to say, it's like, maybe a commentary on the state of things in US Schools where people are like, oh, my G. My grades weren't very good. I had a 3.57 out of. Out of four. Tells you how much grade inflation there might be in America or something. I don't know. Yeah. So in any event, let's get together, though, next week and we'll do it all again.
• 34:07
  Speaker B: Yeah. Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take care of.