Latest / Books4Guys / The Untold Side of the Civil War | J.D.R Hawkins on History, Writing, and the Renegade Series

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The Untold Side of the Civil War | J.D.R Hawkins on History, Writing, and the Renegade Series · Books4Guys

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't had too many uh guests on from California yet.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 0:21
  unknown: Yeah.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we live in Reading.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you're familiar where that is.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty close to the Oregon border.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's Northern California.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: I heard it's beautiful there.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's very pretty.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: We have three mountain ranges.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Mount Shasta, which is a 14er.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: All kinds of natural waterfalls and hiking trails and just amazing stuff like that.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's riding's fun because it's right on the interstate, so it's easy to get up to Portland, down to Sacramento, or over to San Francisco.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: But yet it's even though it's growing a lot, it still has a small town atmosphere, which is kind of nice.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's amazing.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Julie, super excited to talk with you today.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I know we've been we've been trying to do this for several weeks now.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm very excited that we finally get to do the podcast conversation.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: As I came across uh I came across you on LinkedIn, but then I found the Renegade series that you've written.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I just started going down a rabbit hole because you're one of the few female Civil War authors out there.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I also saw where you were part of the United Daughters of the Confederacy, and my grandmother was actually a part of that as well.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I started just looking through like some correlations because I know she was interested in a lot of that as well, and I learned a lot from her.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, no one else has ever told me stories or shared books, you know, about that as much before.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Then I found you, and I was like, oh, okay, like this is super cool.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: But my question is, how did you get interested in this subject and in and then the Civil War and writing books about it?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've always been fascinated with the Victorian era, I'd have to say, more than anything.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: My husband and I are originally from Iowa.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: We've been married almost 45 years, but we decided we wanted to move to Colorado after we've been married for a few years, just because we loved the mountain towns.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the Victorian atmosphere and all the old stories and just that era, that whole era just fascinated me.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then I um happened to, actually, this is a weird story.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: I happened to actually go up to one of the mountain towns one time, and it was this little toy store, and um they were running this contest, the toy company was running this contest, and they were gonna fly people out to Gettysburg because that's where their home office was.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I signed up.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what the heck?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I was one of the winners.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So they flew me out, and my son, my husband didn't want to go, he should have gone, but he missed out opportunity in a lifetime.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, my son went with me and it was just fascinating because growing up in Iowa, living in Colorado, I'd never seen a Civil War battlefield.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: I thought they were the size of a football field.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was pretty naive about it.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then going to see Gettysburg, wow, you know.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the daddy of 'em all pretty much.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got inspired to write a story, and the stories that I mostly read about the Civil War um were from the officers' side, the battlefield descriptions, the, you know, northern soldiers.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, that's my dog scratching at the door.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: But nothing really from the southern side.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I grew up in Iowa, they didn't teach you the southern side.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I got curious, I was like, why would every single southern soldier want to fight to preserve something as horrible as slavery?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they didn't.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the more research I did, the more I found out about it.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I decided I wanted to write a book from uh from the perspective of just a typical Southern kid and why he would enlist, what would inspire him to go.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then one book turned into two, turned into three, and then I went back and wrote a prequel.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So right now there's four in the series.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: I've written two side stories to go with it, and I'm gonna write write the fifth book, probably start this fall, writing the fifth book, and then wrap up the series.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know what I'm gonna do after that.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: I might continue on with, you know, another family member or something.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's incredible.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: When you started off to write the book, did you foresee it being as long of a series, or did that kind of organically happen as you got into it?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: It happened on its own.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of writers will tell you once they start writing, their characters take over.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: The books write themselves.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a plotter, so I plot my stories out.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: But even so, something come up, I'm like, this is changing everything.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: I have to put this in here, you know?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's how it came about.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, I started writing a book and I wanted him.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just randomly chose this place in Alabama, which is called Ryan Crossroads.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my maiden name is Ryan.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that's a sign.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: We'll have him be from there.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: So then one thing just led to the other, and he enlists with the Confederate cavalry.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a horse lover, so we had to get the horses in there.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um, then the book just kept growing and growing.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it was getting a bit too long, so I split it into two.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's incredible.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: What are some things that I don't know, what are some things you learned about while writing these stories as far as like direct, you know, information and research you did, you know, about the Civil War?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Was there anything you learned about that you were like, wow, I had no idea.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you talked about like the battlefield, you know, you had your expectation, but it was way different when you saw it.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Are there some other things that you learned about through your journey of writing these?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, tons, tons of stuff.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's just amazing.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the weird thing about the Civil War was that for the most part, it was well, at least in the Eastern Theater, it was in basically in Virginia.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was a concentrated area.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like the first Battle of Manassas happened, and then the following year, the second battle of Manassas on the same battlefield, essentially.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that happened several times.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just kind of gruesome because they'd be fighting, and then these bones would come up from the previous soldiers that had just been randomly, you know, quick quickly buried there or whatever.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: And just stuff like that, just weird stuff.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that's interesting about the cavalry that I learned was that the southern soldiers brought their own horses because they were mostly rural at that time.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: So they were horsemen, they knew how to ride.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the northern soldiers were farmers or they came from big cities.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't acquainted with you know, riding horses, they were used to being around work horses.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: So at the beginning of the war, the Confederate cavalry far outshone the Northern cavalry out until about the time of Gettysburg, and that's when the Northern Cavalry caught up pretty much.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, the Northern guys, they were provided horses, so they had to learn how to be cavalrymen from the get-go, you know.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of interesting.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so fascinating.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: I love learning about this.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't a subject, you know, as I've gotten into my professional space, it's not something I spend a lot of time looking back on, unless there's a movie or or something that catches my attention.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And as I'm trying to challenge myself and others to read more and learn more, I just feel like this is such a great time of in history to go back and learn about and just how important it was and and what all transpired and what was the meaning behind it, you know, why did it happen?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's there's so many people that don't know nowadays.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And again, we just it's been a while.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: We don't think about it all the time, but it's just such an interesting story of what all transpired there.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so glad you put your book series together because it brings, you know, kind of a level of enjoyment along with also learning.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like I said, I've learned a lot from the beginning of it, just how the war came about, all the different aspects.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a really interesting time in our history because there was a lot going on at that time.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: There was westward expansion, there was still the issue of slavery.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Initially, when the war started, it was more of a kind of a back issue.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: But then Lincoln brought it into the forefront by making the Emancipation Proclamation, which only applied to southern states, by the way, not northern states.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time of the Civil War, there were still northern states, so that allowed slavery.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something they don't tell you in the history books.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: They make it, you know, black and white, north and south.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like that at all.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's family members fighting against each other, taking different stuff different sides.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: There was King Cotton, which the North was taxing the heck out of the South, and that was one of the major reasons why they fought up against them was for economic reasons.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Plus the Transcontinental Railroad.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: The South wanted it to go through the South Southern states, of course.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: The North, just the opposite, because whichever way it went, part of the country would prosper from it.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So once the war started, Lincoln signed into effect that the Transcontinental Railroad would be built on northern soil.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what happened.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: So interesting.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So interesting.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Julie, as you, I mean, you've written several books.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Did you grow up like loving to read and write?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or when did you discover, hey, this is my passion, this is what I want to do, and you know, you've built a life out of, you know, writing books and and and publishing several of them.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I started writing mostly I was a kid, and I just started writing songs and poems, and then it kind of expanded into short stories.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then when my kids were little, I wrote children's books and drew pictures to go with them just to entertain my kids as they grew.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: My books did too.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So once they were in middle school, I was writing middle grade fiction and young adult from there, and then my first novel, which is A Beckoning Hellfire, was actually the first one.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not the first one in the series, it's actually the second one.
• 11:22
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Which gets confusing, but yeah.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: What was your strategy?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, like everything I've found on you, it's it's JDR Hawkins.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: What's the story behind wanting to use that pin name instead of Julie?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, those were my initials.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And at the beginning, I wasn't sure.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't mean to sound sexist or anything, but I wasn't sure how guys would take a female telling these war stories.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Especially like reenactors, those guys take it seriously.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I am not kidding you.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's they're representing their ancestors and stuff, and they know their history back and forth.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I just thought, I mean, I might be more accepted into their social circles if they don't really know I'm a woman until I got out to book signings and stuff.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then I realized they don't care.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I figured.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I did have a couple of I'm sorry, go ahead.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was gonna say I figured, or I was assuming that may have been the case just because of the topic you were writing about.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was curious if that was the reason you kind of were like, because I've even thought about just like simple my last name, it looks different than it sounds.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's Kleinard, but people say Clenard.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: My middle name's Chase.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, if I ever write a book, I'm gonna call it just by Christopher Chase instead of my last name, just for that simple reason.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of authors do that, yeah.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I was curious to know just like if that was the reason it was because the topic and trying to appeal to a male audience also, you know, wanting them to be interested in reading the books.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like that's exactly the case.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: That is, that is.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Over the years, I've discovered just um by offering the books up and who shows up to signings, things like that.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Both genders love the books, men and women alike.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And kids, I've had a lot of people come up to me and say, these books should be included in school curriculums because they teach a lot and they're fascinating.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a family saga, and a lot of people get into that kind of stuff, and there's a lot of drama systems, you know, action, adventure, all that stuff.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the the series it's it's called the Renegade series, and it actually starts out at the very beginning of the war when Jefferson Davis is being inaugurated.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's the opening scene.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then right now it goes up through Reconstruction and I'm gonna with the fifth book it's gonna talk more about westward expansion.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because my protagonist, his name is David Summers, he's only 14 when the war starts, but when he enlists Oh, he's sixteen when the war starts.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: When he enlists, he's eighteen.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: He just turns eighteen.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then by the time it ending, he's gonna be in his late twenties or so.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's about the same time that things really get interesting out west.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: So living in Colorado, I just wanted to incorporate that part of it.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I know a lot about the state in that area, so he's gonna um actually one of the side stories I wrote called Fool's Gold Folly, which was just published, is about a minor character in the series, and he goes to Breckenridge, Colorado in search of gold.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: So David is gonna follow him out there and we'll see what happens next.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Is your plan for the fifth book to be the last of this series, or still just gonna let it play out?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think it'll be the last, but like I said, it might be, I might, it might lead into another series, or it might need in lead into another story about, you know, his daughter, or I don't know.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't thought that far ahead yet.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of answered my next question, was just do you have other projects that are in planning, or do you, you know, do you plan to uh again kind of letting it flow, but it sounds like you do, you will write more, which is awesome.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: You just kind of yet to be determined what direction you're gonna go with it.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know I'm gonna write the fifth book.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I also have another book.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's historical fiction, but it's not civil war.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's about prohibition.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And vaguely based on my relatives, my great-aunt and uncle ran a hotel in Sioux City, Iowa.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's my hometown.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: During during that time.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And apparently, according to family folklore, they were involved with Al Capone and all these gangsters coming in and out of the hotel.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of uh wrote a quick kind of a mystery story.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go back and rewrite it.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's more like a young adult, cozy mystery, I would call it.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: But it's fun, you know?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's fun talking to my relatives and oh yeah, I heard this story where they did this and that, and you know, just incorporating it in the book is pretty fun.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds like a book I would like to read for sure.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds like a real books for guys type of book for sure.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Julie will be.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't matter.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll still love it.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: What is Julie, as you write, and obviously you love what you do, you're passionate about it, but what's what's your favorite part of it?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is it knowing that there's a lot of people out there that have enjoyed it, so you love hearing from it?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is it just getting lost in the world and the characters that you you're creating, and it's just you get to be creative doing this?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: But like, what's your favorite part of the process?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say all of the above.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely not the editing.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's but yeah, it's fun to come up with storylines.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's fun to hear what people, you know, have to say about it.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: I had one lady buy the whole series not too long ago, and I mean her son bought it for her for Christmas.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I've never met her, but I know her son, and he said she does she's taking her time reading it because she loves it so much she doesn't want it to end.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, that's awesome.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually making an impact on somebody.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I've heard that from a lot of other people too, that they didn't know the southern perspective.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they didn't know how much suffering they went through, and it was terrible, just terrible.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Gone with the Wind kind of touches on it a little bit, but no, it was really horrible.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: General Sherman, I'm sorry, that guy was a he was a warmonger big time.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, as soon as the Civil War ended, he went out and he's killing Indians, you know.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, okay.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, something was wrong with that one, but anyway.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Not good, not good.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Julie, I really just this has been such fantastic.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: I love talking about this.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've got just one more question for you, though.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I ask everyone that comes on this podcast, and I guess it's a two-part question.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, obviously, it sounds like you grew up like loving to write, and and it's what's led you to where you're at now.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: My first question is did you also love to read?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And what are some of your personal favorite books that has had an impact on you both personally and professionally?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't a big reader in school too much.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was mostly a creative person.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I was, you know, into arts and stuff.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And a singer-songwriter, too.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I was in a band and everything.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Mostly I I I love Gotten with the Wien.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love um Animal Farm and The Outsiders, all that kind of stuff.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but like I said, I wasn't really a reader until more recently.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then I decided I was gonna sit down and read some of these classics that I had skipped over when I was a kid.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I went back and wrote read Old Yeller and The Yearling and stuff like that, you know, animal stories.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love animal stories.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's amazing.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's funny, as I asked people that question, it seems like people, and I'm just thinking of the conversations I've had.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you started writing earlier and that's something you really enjoyed, well, that's what you did.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't spend as much time reading.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I've talked to a lot of people recently who've like started writing came later.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: The reading happened first.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: So then, you know, they got ideas, and then it led to writing, because people think there's such a correlation, like writing, reading, writing.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone like puts them in the same category.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like two totally different things, and you can be interested in one and not the other.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which is a lot like me.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm uh I'm opposite.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: I could read a book all day, but if you ask me to write something, I'll be like, I don't know if I can write a full page, you know.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I just don't know what I can come up with.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's a very special talent that you have and a gift to be able to put these stories together and come up with such you know entertainment through a book series.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that's so fascinating because it's just something I can't fathom myself doing.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, man, that's amazing that you can do that.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: You sound like my husband, he said he says the same thing.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: But he's got a mathematical mind, so he can do way more with his doing.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: We all have our special talents, I guess.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, we do.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Julie, thank you again for for taking the time to do this.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's uh I've got one of your books on the website.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna get them all on there.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if anyone's interested, they can they can find them.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we're super excited about your future work as well.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we can't wait to see what the fifth book looks like and and the rest of the avenues you decide to go down.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, now that we've met, I'll be definitely paying attention to that and looking forward to it.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: But Julie, again, this has been fantastic.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for taking the time to come on the Books for Guys podcast.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for having me.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed myself.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was so nice to meet you.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: You as well, Julie.