Latest / The Bridges and Beacons Podcast / Mental Health Matters with Christine Passo

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Mental Health Matters with Christine Passo · The Bridges and Beacons Podcast

• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Bridges and Beacons podcast.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Kelly Myerson.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: And guilty as charged, I was having a great conversation.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And my lovely guest, who I will introduce you to in a moment, was like, Do you think we really should be recording this?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Yes, we should.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: I am welcoming to the show.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody who I am obsessed with.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: We are, I told her we're Besties on LinkedIn.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: I hope I didn't like overstep bounds, but her name is Christine Passo, and she is one of my favorite people because, like, let me tell you, at this point in the world, I am so disinterested in generic and everybody looking the same.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I know some of this is my human design, it's what's happening in the world.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: But Christine, I I'm obsessed with you because I can always like trust.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: One, you're gonna, you're gonna share a post that is speaking truth to bullshit, which I freaking love.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's gonna be a post and it's gonna have the most adorable Shelties ever.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to Chip, your newest guy.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I know the voice that's coming through is true and raw and real, and that is what I'm here for right now.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, Christine, first of all, welcome to the podcast.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, how do you want to respond to that?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, first of all, like I'm thumping, thumping my heart with my hand because I adore you.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Number one.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Number two, the very first time that we actually had a call.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So separate from all the commenting on LinkedIn, which is where we met, right?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's where a lot of people meet.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: But our call, we just we just took off running with like love and honesty.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: And no, we're not in love and we didn't even know each other, but there's a way to lead with love in that way because we are just being honest and we're being truthful.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when that happens, like there is an automatic connection because there's no barrier, you know, like there is nothing dividing us being exactly who we are.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what inspires me every day.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: And also the fact that I spent, you know, nearly five decades pretending to be somebody that I wasn't, which is a very common story told by a lot of people, right?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Especially women in their 50s in particular, but even more now, women in their 40s, like we're coming into our own earlier because we're standing on the shoulders of other women who are saying you get to be yourself.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I equally am as obsessed with you and your truth and your desire to basically call bullshit as well and aspire to continue doing so.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that is what came to my mind, and I'm so grateful to be here.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: I know that we originally were scheduled to chat, I think like a month ago, and you were so gracious.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm so glad to be here.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: You've carved out time for me during your spring break, which I love because you love doing this.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're taking your time off to do what you love and see another reason.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's the word love.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, for now, I'm done.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yay! Oh my gosh, I love that.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I had like these visions.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, did you did you watch Little House on the Prairie as a kid?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I wanted to live there.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I watched it all the time.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was the coolest thing.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Watch the show.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was obsessed with Laura Ingles Wilder, and like I just had this like vision of us like arm in arm, like with the music, like do do, or we're like skipping through the meadow, like, yay, I found some friends, you know.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: I just I I love those positive vibes, and I think, you know, LinkedIn can feel a little bit stiff in the on the onset, like when you first arrive there, because it's people really use it more for like traditional business and networking and connecting.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it I was part of LinkedIn and I guess I don't even know, maybe two years I've been like really sticking with LinkedIn versus some of the other social media platforms just because I was like, I can't, I can't do Facebook anymore.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like it just, you know, and listen, if you're listening and you're like, but I love Facebook, that's great.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not, it's not that I'm saying everybody should leave Facebook, nobody should do Instagram or TikTok.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying where I felt most at ease and and had the easiest time is with LinkedIn most recently.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I love Substack too, although that's a whole other story because they really they had a really good thing going and they sort of decided to switch and be more like everybody else.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it's kind of like, but that's just that's just me.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know what?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you something, and I just realized it this moment as you were talking about LinkedIn and Facebook, that for quite a while I've been saying, I'm so over LinkedIn.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, I'm I'm over all the social media stuff.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: I just I feel like so much of it is empty and it leaves us feeling empty.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I was never in it for the reactions, right?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: I was never like, oh, look, I went, I went viral.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: I never want to go viral.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, I really don't.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean that honestly.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: People people may say that and they go viral and like, look at me, look at my post.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that will never be me.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: But as you were just describing why you've chosen to spend more time on LinkedIn versus other channels, it's made me realize.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: I thought that I really enjoyed Instagram.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I enjoy perusing Instagram.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of humor, right?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of interesting posts about dogs, which of course we've already, you know, kind of talked about how much I love dogs.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: And but as you said that, I realized that where I end up having the most interesting conversations via comments, not even necessarily in my DMs, it's like people don't maybe this is just me.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: There's not as much time for DMs anymore.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's like if you want a DM, you just get on a call, right?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: You just get on a call.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: But the more intelligent, thought-provoking, I see you, I understand you, I get that on LinkedIn.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I used to think it was Instagram, but it's not, it's LinkedIn.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I really, over the years, have evolved on LinkedIn where I used to say, I don't care, I'm gonna be myself.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: It takes a lot of peeling back the layers, as they say, to really get down to that side of us that we're not afraid of anymore.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: That we really are not afraid because we don't realize that we're performing all the time.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, a part of me, honestly, right here in this interview, is performing.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I love this shirt, right?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: But to me, it's like my dress up shirt.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm a very casual person.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: I like to be comfortable.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: I work from home, I spend all day with three dogs who at any time will jump on me and have dirty paws.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I don't, and it's just not my thing.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I dressed.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know if this is going to be on video, but I I also facilitated a Cheropee get together earlier.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, all right, well, I'll just dress the part for what I have going on today.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: But like right now, I'm kind of I'm kind of performing in a shirt I don't usually wear, but I do love it by the way.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't it fun?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I love it.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you've got trees and and mountains in nature, which like to me actually is super cute.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I really like it.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I I do I do like to get dressed up.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I mean, we were talking about that, that like the polishing, the overpolishing of who we are and what we do.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think there's a fine line between like curated and thoughtful and like really massively overdoing it.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I still, whether or not it's like conditioning or just me, like I like showing up a little more professional.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna put lipstick on, which I wouldn't necessarily wear every day.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, when I'm running around with a little preschoolers and you know, rolling on the mats, like I'm not wearing a red lip.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just not everything has to be like wash and wear, comfortable, easy to get up and down off the floor.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's like you know, the test of apparel if I'm doing my day job.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: But like, I also I like clothes.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been into getting dressed up.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, for me, it's also there's an element of fun to that.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting too, because when I look at human design, one of one of the centers is called the G Center, and it's your center for direction and like your sense of self.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, if it's defined for people, like they're pretty much who they are, no matter where they go, no matter what they do, they're always themselves.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's very clear.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas mine is open, so it's ever evolving.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, which version of Kelly is showing up today?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and so like, like, I'm like, well, you know, maybe I feel like it's gonna be a red lip, and maybe I'm gonna wear a yellow shirt, or and it's like it, I say, like, if somebody invites me to go to an exercise class, like the question is, what are we wearing?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is what what is the outfit that I should be wearing for said exercise class?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And some people are like, Kel, we're just working out, like whatever.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, it's not whatever for me.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: But oh my god.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what my response is?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do I have to go?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do I have to go?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, and we're not we're not really up for things we don't want to do anymore at all.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just I'm wondering if some of some of that is like I I like to show up for the vibe.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: So like I'm not a light packer because wherever I'm going, I'm like, I don't know what the vibes are.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I dress by the vibes, not by like what what I want to wear on me.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I gotta figure that out first.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's so interesting.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Where I mean, a part of my brain was like, she's gonna say, I dress for what could come up, like the weather or or you know, an event or something like that.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I love that you said you dress for the the vibe or you pack for the vibe, which is well, people are dressed more casually, let me go change, or people are dressed more 20s theme-based, let me go change.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like I would never think that.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I love I love people so much.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a part of me could deal without people because I'm such a I'm such a quiet introvert.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like you would never know that from me guesting on podcasts or certain things.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, wow, your energy, you're you're so alive, you're so vibrant, like you seem so great to be around.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I do, I mean, I do have those parts of myself, but overall, like I'm the one that likes my quiet mornings, my creative mornings, and Friday nights.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: We like to be home.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: We get Neapolitan pizza with this arugula salad from our favorite pizza place down here in Norfolk.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I got a doggy on my lap.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, do we have to talk?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: And my wife is like, no, you know, I mean, she's been talking all week, and and it's like my dream.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: But then there's that side of me that is at that point now at age 55, that it's like I held in everything for so long.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been speaking now for quite some time.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: I've been sharing my thoughts and feelings, but it's important to just keep doing it.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you're if somebody listening is just now finding their voice, keep keep speaking.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because even if you think people don't care, because the thing is, most people won't tell you that what you say means something to them because it's quite possible they won't even realize it for a day or a week, right?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then they'll be like, I have no way to contact this person.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, there is that side of us, whether we're an introvert or an extrovert, that wants to share something.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: And the more we share it, the more free we become from anything that we've gone through in life, continue to go through and expect to go through.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: I love that so much.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think what I also appreciate about you is that you talk openly about mental health and mental health challenges.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think too, there can be the very polished version of that, and I feel like yours isn't, and I and that is so important.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: It is so important because people out there are going to relate to the raw information, yeah.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Are gonna see themselves and say, Well, I felt like that some days, versus like somebody who is, and like, listen, we're not we're not calling anybody out, we're not judging somebody who's like there's music and they're pointing to words on a screen about how they feel versus you on a walk in nature, like just speaking from your heart about how hard some days can be, you know.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's um I'll tell you the things that make me that actually make me angry, and they make me angry because I feel like they send the wrong message to the people that really need to hear it, and then it confuses them where they feel like they're not capable, they can't achieve it, they're failures.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: So even an antidepressant commercial, it starts somebody out as looking really sad, right?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: They're in the dark, maybe they're in bed, they're in blah clothes, they don't have any color, and then they start taking the antidepressant, and all of a sudden they're back to life.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you can live again.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I realize these are commercials, and most commercials are not telling the whole truth, like no matter what.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're watching a Coke commercial, they're not telling you how much sugar is in that soda and how very non-quenching it is.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: You take a sip of soda and it's like, oh my God, I'm so thirsty.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't appreciate because all right, let's back up.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Remember last year I experienced uh very deep depression.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: I went into a very deep depression.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: I throughout my life have experienced deep depression.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: I attempted to take my life when I was in my 20s.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: It and I I'm saying this kind of like flat line right now because I've spoken about it before.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't have emotions about that back then.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: What I have emotions about is how that depression comes and goes.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: And just because I got treated back in my 20s and I got help, it doesn't mean you just rise above it.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, some some of us never experience depression.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there are some people out there that never experience depression.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's wonderful.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I get migraines.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: I have a friend who does not get headaches.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't even know what it would be like to live a life where I didn't every day or every other day have a headache that potentially turns into a migraine.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: But depression comes and goes, it does not just go away.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it's, you know, is it part of our chemistry?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's all these scientific, there's been so much research, and really nothing is 100% proven, other than, you know, really, we can't just take ourselves out of it.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Once you get in that black hole, some people call it the dark hole, who you are and what you're thinking is not reality because you are now out of line with any true thought process process you've ever had in your life.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: And there's nothing to compare it to.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: But in that depression that I experienced last year, it kind of really caught me off guard because I've, you know, for 10, 15 years, I've been able to catch myself and be like, okay, this, I can't need to do this.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I was like, I need help.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: I need, I need to start with an antidepressant.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember people saying, that's great.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you feel better soon.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: Things are looking up.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, for who?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, most people don't even realize that it could take three months, three months just to learn if the low dose is is appropriate.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then you adjust the dose, right?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: You might go up and it's like, no, this isn't for me.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then potentially you wean off and then start another one.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: So you're looking at a minimum five to six months of learning whether or not that antidepressant works for you, and then switching to another one, which isn't what I needed to do.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: I needed to switch.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And since I switched, I've been on Cymbalta and I'm actually pretty happy with it.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: But I still have some rough days.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: And there sometimes there's a reason for it and sometimes there isn't.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: But for the people who, you know, in in their in their dress suits and their women that are in their business suits and they, you know, post, oh, I experienced depression three years ago.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so much better now.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: I got over it.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's like there's still that stigma in us that we have that people feel like they have to say, but I'm good now.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: I got over it.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm strong again, I'm capable.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: I I should not be marked with mental health condition.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: But the stigma remains the stigma because women like that or men like that keep buying into it and they don't realize they're buying into it.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like I even bought into it, Kelly.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was telling somebody, I'm like, I don't believe in stigmas anymore, like F that.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have time for that.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: And and I said, you know, and I I'm I'm on a low dose antidepressant.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, You just stigmatized yourself.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: He said, Why did you have to say a low dose?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Does it matter?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh my gosh, you're right.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: I was trying to say, well, I'm not that effed up.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Just a little like don't don't put the stamp on me.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: But we do this and and we actually discredit ourselves because I deserve to tell the truth about how I'm feeling what I'm going through, because other people deserve to hear the truth about what they may experience their whole lives for a temporary season.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know why I just said season.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: I never say season.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not one of those people.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's just life.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a season, it's life.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Things come and go.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Seasons happen four times a year: winter, spring, summer, and fall.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's different.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Life is life.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's going to be hard and it's going to be easy and it's going to be fun and it's going to be complicated and it's going to be full of love and it's going to be full of anger.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to be all of it.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: And the more we embrace that, I think we can be truthful about what we feel in life, and we can allow and accept others to be truthful as well.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's so, so important.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think the stigma is just very pervasive.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's insidious.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's really hooked in in so many places.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's in our lexicon, it's in in you know, the posts that people make, or and and the idea that like we don't want to be associated with the really, you know, mentally ill people.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, it's just I'm working on my mental health.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a mental illness.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and listen, I'm an occupational therapist, so like we're we're coming out of mental health, as like really where we started our work.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you know probably even more than I do about the the 80s and 90s and deinstitutionalization and you know the rhetoric out there that really dehumanizes people who have suffered, who have been maltreated, and that stigma is kind of a way of putting us at a at an arm's length from from people and and saying, I'm the acceptable type of mental illness person, you know, like I you can invite me to a dinner party, you know, I'm not gross.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I think that's it's such a huge, it's a huge piece.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And And, you know, I see that working with children with special needs and how like some of them receive a lot more acceptance than others, you know, and it's hard.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard because I'm so close to it that like people are like, oh, I don't know how you do that work.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't you feel sad every day?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, are you kidding me?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: These kids are great, they're so much fun, they make me laugh, you know?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm never bored.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm at work, like you never know what's gonna happen.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: They'll surprise you, but they're just kids.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and I think the more we talk about it, like you're just a human being having a very human experience, and there's no stigma in that.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, we can applaud you because you asked for help, and I think that's like the moment to celebrate because so many of us dig in.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think, especially women, you know, I mean I can speak to the the female experience, like really dig in and like, I'm gonna figure this out, I'm gonna white knuckle it and I'm gonna get through.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we would never like you know, say to somebody who's an alcoholic, you know, just like just don't don't drink, like keep your hands away.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I think where I was going with that is I I think we have so much work to do.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we have so much work with just like abandoning all of these labels and ways of categorizing people that makes us feel more comfortable, you know, as a as a collective, it makes us more comfortable.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's time to be a little uncomfortable.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'll tell you, I had my own coaching business for a few years.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: I left marketing and sales and advertising, all the you know, kind of different things I was doing for 20 years.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I can't do this anymore.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just bam, like, you know, put my ship in the water and said, let's sail this thing.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: How do we do it?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I just didn't make enough money to to sustain a career, a you know, an an independent career as a coach, which I, you know, I say that not out of failure, because literally everything I'm doing is taking me to the next step.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's that's just what life is about, isn't it?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same thing.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: We grow up, we start in elementary school, and then we go to middle school, and then we go to high school and all these things.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: But for some reason, after we graduate, we think, oh, we're done with those steps.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, we're not.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: They're just they happen to us in different ways.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: And we have to be the ones that determine, okay, that was that step.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: I need to keep going.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just I got that degree.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't really want it, but I got that degree.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: I earned it.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so now I'm gonna see where it takes me.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, so I I closed my business, and that was last year.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was after my depression.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: And in that, I was I was desperately seeking.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: I've never been like a group community kind of person where like, oh, there's gonna be 10 people on the call, 10 plus, like, let's get together.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh my God, no.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, I've been, you know, private.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: I like one-on-one, which is still my preference, but I have learned the power in group community conversation.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I did that because I found Cheropee.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not therapy and it's not sharing, it's Cheropee.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I was searching through a friend of mine on LinkedIn.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: She's connected to so many people who talk about grief, who talk about suicide prevention.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: They've lost people to suicide, like anything, mental health and mental wellness.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I found Cheropee and I was like, oh, this is kind of interesting.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: So Cheropee is all based on peer support.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's a peer support community that offers online get-togethers.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're not called meetings because we have enough meetings in life, but they are virtual get-togethers where you just talk about what's real.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it, they aren't bitch sessions.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we don't go in and go, well, this is wrong with my life and this person does this.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's a different topic every time we get together, Kelly.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it honestly had been something I'd been searching for for so long.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's, you know, you and I, when we first met, we started talking, you know, I said this earlier about what's real, about what's honest.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: And there nothing held us back because we knew there was trust.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't even have to, you know, work up to, I don't know if I can trust her.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: It just happened and it's rare, right?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like you don't, we don't fall into those types of things because instead we feel stigma, we're afraid, we've got, you know, we're performing, like all the things that we don't realize we're doing.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: Where in Cheropee, it's not like that.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I went to my first get-together and I was like, well, I'll see how it is.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm probably not going to say anything.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God, I ended up divulging my depression, my struggles.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think I cried a little bit.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end, I was laughing.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was laughing because nobody tried to fix me.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody judged me.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: There were no words, anything like that, that we normally hear.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like you might go to a family member who says, you know, you say, I have depression.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: All right, well, let's get together a game plan.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: What are we gonna do?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: What have you been doing?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: You need to get out for walks.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: You're not working out, you need to get to working out.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: I see you're not eating right.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, no, no, no, I don't need you to fix me.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: I need you to freaking validate me because most of the time that's all we need.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: We just need to be told, like, okay, I'm here with you.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: What else?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and we don't do that.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was, I just gravitated towards that instant love at Cheropee.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I ended up basically talking myself into a job with a company at the time that didn't have any money.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, I can't pay you.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I don't care.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because this is helping me and helping other people is helping me.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, you find these things, you find, and it is, it's a community, but you find your people, right?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: You you might go to a Tuesday get together.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, I love those people that go to Tuesday.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: I want to go to Tuesday, or I love the Wednesday at noon, I'm gonna go to Wednesday, you know, whatever it might be.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: But having that outlet that we all are craving.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I know a person on earth who isn't craving real, real deep connection.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: But they don't know what they're missing until they find it.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: So in the meantime, they're meeting their friends that they've been, you know, they've known for decades, or they're getting together with their family, but it's all the same stuff and it's different.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And we don't realize we hold back from those people.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's not because we don't love them, it's because they're in it with us.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a different thing.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, just finding community and finding that real and that honesty that you and I keep, we just keep talking about it.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it's how you live your life, Kelly.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's how you continue to live your life, and it's what you talk about on your show.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, when you're at school and you're working with kids, you can't be fake.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna, they're gonna see right through you and they're gonna be like, whatever.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so you've got that ingrained in you, and it's really important.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for noticing that.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I love that.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think the the piece that you said about being validated and having someone acknowledge what you said and hold space for you.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me is is really critical right now to have people who can hold space, where there's full acceptance, there's full awareness of the present moment.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that that's part of the work that I love to do, whether it's kids, my podcast, or or coaching that I'm doing, but being able to hold space, and I've realized that that's that's one of my gifts, that I I hold that space for people where they can be exactly as they are and feel felt safety and comfort and love.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: And like I'm like, you know what, I can't stop telling people that I love them and that I I gushel over people all the time.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that is just part of who I am and what I do.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just not gonna stop doing that because people like people think sometimes like it's it's an act.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, no, no, no.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: The mask is like me when I'm just like, you know, talking and and and being very polished and like that, that is the act, the the performance.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: But the me who is you know, fumbling over my words, excite, so excited for people to come on the podcast is the real, that's the real deal.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's who I am.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm okay with like some people are just gonna be like, that's a little much for me.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I am.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm too much for a lot of people.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that's you know what though, you know, as you're saying this, Kelly, I'm just sitting here going, it's because you're full of acceptance.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: You're full of acceptance that it's not about judging for you.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna you're gonna hug whoever, you're gonna, you're gonna express that love because you're accepting them.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, you wouldn't do that.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: You'd be like, I'm not gonna hug them.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like they pissed me off about you know 20 minutes ago, or they said that one thing two months ago.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: I still, I don't know, I'm not into it.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that judge frame of mind, oh, it can, you know, it can ruin so much.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so for you, just in what you were saying, you're able to give all that love and you want to give all that love because what you see is just beauty around you, because that's acceptance.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that again is rare.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I I really I see people, and it's part of what obsesses me with looking at human design because I see people's design and I see the person in there, I see who they are and and some of the things that are that are creating the beauty about them.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's what makes me love working with the kids that I work with, who you could say like they've got everything stacked up against them.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, but they love science and the planets, and you know, they're they're actually really funny and they like these very specific.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: I have a I have a kid who loves to listen to Simon and Garfunkel, you know, like Eddie's six.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you just like I have this ability to connect and see people, and and I have full acceptance, and that's not that's not a pretend thing.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, I like I cannot hold a grudge because I just can't remember.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's too much work to hold on to grudges because like I am not really good at remembering stuff.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, like and you know what?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you could still judge because it it is probably the first thing we do.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: We can't help it.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: We'd be like, wow, they're wearing that orange.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I would have chosen that color if I if I had their color skin.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's like we can't help it.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: But then, you know, my guess is you stop yourself pretty quick and you're like, why do I care?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: It has nothing to do with me.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: What like who am I to to even have those thoughts?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: But we can't help it.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a lot of us that judge, and I'm like, don't worry about it.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we do it.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: That the key and the most important it, the most important thing is to stop yourself and be like, what that wow, I'm really demeaning that person right now.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: And who am I to do that?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Or but yeah, acceptance, I'll tell you, it is an underrated skill.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think I also have expert level curiosity.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's hard to be judgmental when you're like, wait, I just need to know everything.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like where you're like, oh, so we got this little guy, Chip, and then I'm like, wait, I need to know everything about Chip.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: How's he doing?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: What happened?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me the whole story.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: I love a story, you know.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's what gets me excited.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: It also makes me for very good podcast hosts because I'm legitimately curious.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you really cannot, you know, some people are like TMI.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, forget TMI, like just tell me all the things.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: I need, I absolutely need to know.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that also part of my human design.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have a one-three, which is you know, the numbers.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's six numbers, and they can be in various combinations.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: So mine's a one-three.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: The one is like the deep dive researcher, so I'm super good at that.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Plus ADHD, so hyper focus is a thing.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: So like I can like go down for like a week and like resurface and be like, I learned everything I need to know about this very specific thing.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the three is experimenting with things, so like actually taking and playing with it in the real world.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm a very good teacher for that reason because I can figure out all right, you don't need to go ABC, like it's A, H, Y, done.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, make it simple.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for me, that natural curiosity that I have, that natural interest, I love people, you know, and and there are people I don't enjoy for sure, but but even with those people, I'm like, I'm just so curious.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what the heck is actually happening in between those two ears?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what really happened to them?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of trauma have they experienced to be able to behave in such a way?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you can get closer to understanding someone, you can get closer to accepting them, and you can be able to forgive on a bigger scale or just not let it eat away at you.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you you said a word that uh forgive.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: We have been taught to forgive and forget, let it go.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: We're the only ones that's hold, you know, we're the ones that are holding on to what happened.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, like I don't think we have to forgive.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not I'm not suggesting other people live their lives the way that I am.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this is based on the life that I have lived and the experiences that I've been through and what works for me.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: But what does forgiving do for behavior that I may consider based on the person that I am to be repulsive, to be toxic, to be abusive?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna forgive that.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: What I'm gonna do is I'm just gonna make a decision about whether or not I involve myself with that anymore.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like, why would I forgive behavior that was terrible and towards me, right?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: It it's not that the behavior is towards other people, it has to be something that happened that was deliberately to me or was, you know, that somebody murdered somebody, where like something that is not even judgeable, but is clearly wrong.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: That, you know, that's different.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think we have to forgive.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think we have to do what feels right for ourselves.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't forgive.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean I hang on to it and I hold a grudge.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: I just say, you know what, you did that, and mm-mm, you're not gonna do it again.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't forgive you.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna move on.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's not gonna bother me the rest of my life, but I'm never gonna, I'm not gonna forget.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sometimes I think forgiving, you know, and there's a lot of religious reasons, and you know, I'm not here to argue any of those again.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: This is what I have done.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, sometimes there are these old sayings that we feel we're supposed to do, and and and because people lead with it because they are old sayings, but sometimes it doesn't sit right.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like we get to choose, yeah, and it's okay.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody says, Well, you don't forgive me, and they say it in a in a oh gosh, I can't think of the word in it essentially in a negative way.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, no, I don't forgive you.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you can't you can feel however you want about that, about me not forgiving you, but it's what I get to do, and now you get to make a choice around that.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: But um, this is the beauty of us all being different people, and this is the beauty of why I find people so fascinating, is that we get to make these choices on our own.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not for me to judge whether or not somebody else forgives or doesn't forgive, or forgets, or doesn't forget.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: I get to make those choices for myself, and nobody's gonna, nobody's gonna talk me out of it.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I fully appreciate that.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I I tend to agree with you.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I think, and you you brought up religion, which I think is is a piece of the puzzle.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of dogmas that, you know, want you to seek forgiveness, you know, get get like permission from from whatever God you believe in to like, you know, forgive you for your mistakes.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and listen, I'm not here to tell anybody, like, if that works for you, go for it.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: I just find it doesn't work for me.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I don't know, probably an eight or nine-year-old kid going to church, going to the Catholic Church, ironically, right up the street from where I live now, but and I really wanted to be an altar server.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you're familiar with the Catholic Church, but like in the 80s, like only boys could be altar servers.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I said to my mom, I want to be an altar server, and she's like, Well, you can't because you're a girl.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I feel like there is nothing about me being a girl that has any bearing on me being able to like bring stuff up to the altar.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, That's the rules.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, hmm, that doesn't make any sense though.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Status quo questioner.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, that doesn't make any sense, you know, and so I just and eventually like I I stopped participating because I just couldn't handle the like the reality of the emptiness of it.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And like I just was like, I don't is that my relationship with God, universe, energy, light source, whatever, whatever you like to call it?
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I don't, I don't think so.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I need to go talk to an old man about like I don't know, talking back to my parents and get forgiveness from him through God.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, uh, does anybody not see that this is a little strange?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then and then at the same time, like, like you can't participate because you're a girl, like condemning me.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like, oh, and your your friends aren't accepted because they're not straight.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, that doesn't make any sense either.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how does that have any bearing on and so like I just couldn't deal with the BS anymore?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I can't do it anymore.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: What you just said, Kelly, is what our country is going through right now.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: I can't the quote unquote, I can't deal with it anymore.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't mean we don't care, like it didn't mean you didn't care.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: It didn't mean you didn't still want what you wanted, but you were like, I'm being essentially the doors being closed in my face everywhere I go.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, this is not the place that I'm gonna try to create change, right?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like naming, you know, it's like recognize your surroundings, right?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like read the room, essentially.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of people, including myself, have read the room in our country, and and we are making decisions around that.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we're just not even hunkering down, we're just letting time go by until we can do something about it again.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: And just what you said is more related to more things that happen in our life than that small portion of what you went through when you were young.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you really think about that, and like I encourage your listeners, like, really think about how often do we pull back?
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean we don't want to give it a try.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: It means that everything we see that potentially is in the way, it's like I'm reading this room, and this room is giving me the middle finger.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: How, you know, do I want to wrestle a professional wrestler who's been doing this for 15 years when I've never done it before?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, no, I need to, I need to go to a different room where I can have impact.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's my that's my analogy, that's my thought process on what you said, and I I love it.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, as this day goes on, I know I'm going to really be kind of chewing on it and and letting that sink into how we are making decisions right now.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, love, love, love.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love how you you capped that all together for me.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if we talk about right now, for me, it's about I I want to live a life of integrity.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not compromising.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: I also only have so much energy in this one.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Body right now.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I can't rage against every machine.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just can't.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Even if I wanted to.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: But when I think about impact and I think about legacy and I think about how am I going to make a difference for other people, I realize it's not going to be screaming at a brick wall.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's not going to be there.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Where is it going to be?
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be in how I engage with people.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be in my work.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be with my family.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be how I protect my own peace, how I support my own communities and recognizing where there just needs to be a boundary, like you said.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think you said it so beautifully before about like, you know, certain people like, I don't have to forgive you.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to forget, but it's not going to live in my space.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a boundary.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that when we hear about boundaries, we hear about like telling people, like, well, this is my boundary, and you can't do this, and you can't, it's not.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Your boundaries are really your behavior, what you allow, what you're up for.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: So like there are people I'm like, it's over.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm okay with that.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm moving on, and like the boundary is up, and I'm not gonna go backwards and feel bad about that.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of the lexicon of like blood is thicker than water, you know.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: There's so there's so many that are just these these old phrases that are meant to get us to conform and to be okay with people in some type of close proximity to us, an authority figure, a family member, be okay with them misbehaving because you're part of their family unit.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: They're I'm like, I'm just not gonna stay in those places anymore.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't really matter to me at you know, nearly 50 if that's people I've known my entire life or not, because I care that much about integrity and and care about the people that I'm here to provide a better future for.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a there's a fine line between honoring people and allowing people to treat us poorly.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like there are so many, you know, honor your family, they're your family, they're the only ones are gonna be there with you until the end.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: That the first of all, that's not true.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's not true.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I honor people that honor me.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a tit for tat though, Kelly.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like I used to live that way.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be like, well, why would I give to that person?
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: They don't give anything to me.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't live my life that way anymore.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: If I want to give, if I see goodness, if I see greatness, wonderful, kind, genuine from somebody, they're gonna, they're gonna be receiving from me forever.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't ever need anything from them because it feels good to give to that kind of a person.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: But if somebody dismisses me, dismisses what's important to me, I just it's not even that I don't have time for it.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just not interested.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to I'm not gonna let it marinate, I'm not gonna do any of those things.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not being cruel, I'm not, I'm not putting up my hand, or I'm not saying you're rude or you're not interested in me, so you're you're done.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we've we've grown so accustomed to this cancel culture.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, we've we're we're taking two words and applying it to something that is a lot more complex.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: And we deserve to honor ourselves by breaking down that complexity to understand that why are we wanting to step away?
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about the other people, it's about who we are and what we want for our for our future.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, other people are going to do things, they're always gonna do things, other people are always gonna do things.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's just we finally get to align with who we are.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like we finally look in the mirror and go, oh, oh, hey, I see you.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's like from Castaway, I know you, you know, when he rebuilds Wilson, yeah, and he puts the blood on him, he's like, I know you, I know you.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: When we finally get to look in the mirror and say, God, I see you.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_02: We get to say, you know what, that person isn't for me anymore.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: And and gosh, at that point, Kelly, like it's not even about boundaries, it's about honoring who we are and being okay with it.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a beautiful part of life when we get there.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a process, like there ain't nothing easy about it, and we're constantly changing, but it really is, you know, it it's a it's a blessing and a curse to be this aware, right?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're very aware.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's a blessing and a curse because it's wonderful.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like you finally get to see, and the world is so much brighter and it is incredibly beautiful, but then we see too much, and it's like, oh my God, then because then we feel it.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: We feel more than other people who don't see, and so that part is hard, but you know what?
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'll take that any day.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'll take that any day.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I feel that absolutely.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think I I would take that any day, and I think what it is is learning to feel like in your own body, in your own nervous system, my peace is nobody else's responsibility.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I get to choose how much I let in, who I let in, and whether it's what I'm watching, what I'm listening to, and to understand like where it is that I can actually do something, what's in my control.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't control other people's emotions, I can't control other people's behaviors.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: I can to some extent control my own.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: I can recognize and you know, make better choices, more resourceful choices for myself.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: My favorite teacher that I work with when she's helping our middle schoolers, you know, work through social challenges and moments that they have.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: She teaches them, you know, what are you gonna do to make your situation?
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: And she always pauses because it's a phrase she says all the time, better.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: What are you gonna do to make your situation better?
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think about that a lot.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think those kinds of phrases are even better to get stuck in our heads.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: What am I gonna do to make my situation better?
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, here I'll I I'll give you a phrase.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, it's not even basically a full sentence.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it is, but it's not.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: A new friend of mine, his his name is Jeff Johnson.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: He's co-founder of a company called Brighton.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's an AI app for mental wellness, like keeping track of your days.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, he said, basically ask yourself, am I going to be bitter or better?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: And there's such a realistic point of view about that.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like if you're gonna walk around stomping and being pissed and throwing your arms everywhere, you're bitter.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, then you have you have to swallow that, right?
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to eat it for dinner and you got to tuck yourself into bed with the fact that you're feeling bitter.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about anybody else at that point.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: Or are you gonna be better?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_02: How does that look?
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: What is that gonna mean in your life?
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: What are you gonna do?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: What are what decisions are you going to change to be better?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, at the end of the day, just like all these things you were saying about who you choose to let into your life, at the end of the day, it's our decision.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's our life to live.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: And when we are destructive with our words and we're disrespectful with our words, we have to live with it.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: And when we blame other people for it, that's that typically shows us that it's our fault's our fault, right?
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: When we blame other people.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: We just take ownership and go, it's not for me.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's no blame, you know.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: So at the end of the day, it's it's about us, not in a selfish way, but in an empowering way.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, maybe this is a good way to wrap up, but like, how are we gonna be?
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: How are we gonna feel bitter or better?
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: I do like that because I also think it's sort of like you're just throwing up two middle fingers, like do whatever the fuck you want, but I'm gonna be great over here, you know?
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you you can't take that away from me.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: You can't take my joy away from me.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can't, I don't, I don't allow you.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's being empowered and and recognizing like we can't be victims of circumstance.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: We can choose, and I mean you're right, a choice is a bitter is a choice, and sometimes it's a moment, it's a it's a day, it's a half a day, it's a few hours.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like we we all deserve to feel, and it and this is not this is not your early 2000s toxic positivity we're talking about here.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about like better to me means like those boundaries.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: Better to me means like I'm going to give myself time to rest and be in peace and walk in the woods.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: Better means I'm gonna turn off all the technology and have a face-to-face dinner with my family.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: Better means like you don't always have to show up for everything.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's like a whole thing, too.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know if it was you that posted about that, but like, but like making plans and canceling plans, yeah.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, actually put the pearls down, Susan.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you actually can cancel whenever you want.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like don't tell me what to do.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: Let's tell me you don't want to cancel, fine, don't cancel.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_02: But like, you know what?
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: We don't all want to go all the time.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: So who cares?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter, it doesn't freaking matter.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: And like the way that that shows up for me in like real time is like if somebody cancels on me, I'm like, great, because there's probably a a reason that they needed to, and B, there's something in it for me to gain.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I choose to look at it, it's gonna be better.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be better because the timing is gonna be better for the two of us.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be better because I get a little bit of free time I wasn't anticipating.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I need that, you know?
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, I'm not a new rule.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm never annoyed with people if they cancel on me.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: And two, I am giving myself full permission, like at any point in time with anything.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if I don't want to do it, even if I committed to it, I'm not gonna do it.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna be okay with that.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you get to decide at any moment that it's a no.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, and I think we can apply this to anything we want to apply it to.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: But like, even though you've always said yes, even though you made plans, even though somebody was counting on you, like it's first of all, it's not that serious.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, second of all, there could be somebody else who could do what you were gonna do.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: And third of all, like for most of us, it's not a life or death situation.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: So no, I mean, you know, and there there may be disappointment, but that I mean, honestly, like that's life.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_02: And if that person is a real friend, let's say it was a friend that canceled and they keep canceling, they keep canceling, they keep canceling, well, either A, something is going on with them, right?
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe they're not interested in your friendship anymore.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, like you said, there's always something you can learn or get out of it.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, things are happening around us.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: And again, when we make it about blame, we're missing the point.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: Stop judging, right?
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I know it's hard to do.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_02: Stop judging, stop pointing fingers and let things go.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because the the you know, the truth is time takes us through a story, but when we fight it, we miss the whole damn thing.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when we hang on too long, right?
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I've hung on too long to plenty of things in my life.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_02: I by far am one that's like, oh, I know, I like, oh no, I don't hang on too long.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh God.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've hung on way too long to things, but that's part of learning, you know.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know, you and I, Kelly, I swear, like, I I've already heard another episode about family relationships that we could record.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there are so many things, but again, that's the truth and honesty in which you and I share.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I I so appreciate you always offering that truth and not only accepting it for me, but it inspiring it.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_02: And and that is very needed in our world.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's very needed.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I agree with you.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think this is the perfect punctuation on our conversation.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: But before we go, can you share with people how do they find you?
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: Where can they find out more about Cheropee?
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, we'll put everything in the show notes, but what would you like to share with the listener?
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we actually have a few websites.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: We have a variety of landers because we have a few different memberships to Cheropee.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so honestly, the best way to get what somebody is looking for isn't necessarily our website.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: Our website's a little bit lint uh limited, I'll be honest.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're we're working on getting that changed.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_02: But contact me on LinkedIn or, you know, it's I'm Christinepasso.com.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, not.com.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Christine Paso on LinkedIn.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: And my email at Sheropee is very easy.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: Christine at Sherapy.com.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so those are probably the best ways and easiest ways to get in touch with me.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I also am on Instagram, although I, you know, like I said, and you pulled it out of me.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm, I think I pay more attention on LinkedIn and I post uh differently, more thought-provoking, you know, words on LinkedIn.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I just took that answer and I went around the park and I then went around the block and now I'm parking.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: So there we go.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the parking spot doesn't emerge quickly for some of us.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: We end up being taking a little bit of an extra journey around the block.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I appreciate that as a as a like, wait, let me just see if I could just figure eight through the neighborhood.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: Keep going.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll we'll definitely put that in the show notes.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if listener, you you've made it to the end of our conversation, and this has really resonated with you.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to do something for me.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to share this with someone in your community who really needs to hear this kind of a conversation, whether it's about feeling accepted, how to move forward, some tools that Christine has shared with us, including Cheropee.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got to go where you can plant yourself and grow and not feel ever stuck.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can uproot and start over at any point in time.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: There are no rules anymore.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: Which I mean, there can be some you know lawlessness, but it's also there aren't any rules anymore.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: You can create the possibilities for yourself in the life for yourself.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, if you love Neapolitan pizza and arugula salad, Sheltis, and quiet on a Friday night, like you can live that life, Christine.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm so glad that you that you are.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I really thank you from the bottom of my heart for being here and having such a fully candid conversation, which is feels like really good to be in those kinds of conversations with or without the fabulous top, though I do love the top, and we will be on on uh YouTube.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're checking this out and you're listening, just hop over to YouTube for a few moments to see Christine's lovely blue top.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm enjoying it.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, any final words for the listener, Christine?
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm glad you asked, and I do.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_02: The final word is don't, and I've, you know, people say this all the time.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: Don't let anybody dampen your bright light.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I used to hear that all the time.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't even know what my bright light is.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_02: But the truth is I did know what it was, but I let other people cover it up because I was always trying to fit in with other people.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: That was the truth.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, well, maybe I'm gonna be too weird or I'm too deep, or I don't, you know, I want to talk about serious things, and maybe that's not cool, or it's not, you know, people don't think it's fun on a Friday night.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know what?
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_02: It is fun on a Friday night to talk about serious things.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's just finding the right people.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it can it can take some time, but I promise you they're out there.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, you know what?
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: They're at Cheropee.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's where I, that's where I found a lot of them.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_02: And luckily, my wife is always there and interested in having real conversations.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_02: But don't let anybody make you feel other than exactly who you are, because every one of us is incredibly different.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_02: None of us are the same, and everything about who we are, even if it totally conflicts with how I live my life, they are beautiful because we need everybody to be exactly who they are.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: Gorgeous.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Christine.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, listener.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll see you next time on the podcast.
• 1:04:16
  unknown: Bye.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Kelly.