Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 284 - How to Grow in Being Sympathetic Toward People

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Ep. 284 - How to Grow in Being Sympathetic Toward People · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:04
  Oscar Navarro: I wonder about the person who struggles with sympathy.
• 1:06
  Oscar Navarro: They might be asking like where do I get the power to sympathize with other people?
• 1:10
  Oscar Navarro: And I would say you need to look to Christ and see that he was sympathetic towards you.
• 1:17
  Oscar Navarro: Hebrews 4, verse 15, for we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weakness.
• 1:25
  Oscar Navarro: God does not just stand over and above human suffering and human weakness.
• 1:30
  Oscar Navarro: He is the God who laid down his crown and willingly stepped into our human suffering.
• 1:39
  Oscar Navarro: He was the God who experienced homelessness Matthew 8 20.
• 1:43
  Oscar Navarro: His family thought he was crazy.
• 1:46
  Oscar Navarro: His best friends turned their back on him.
• 1:49
  Oscar Navarro: One of his closest confidants sold him for a pocket change.
• 1:53
  Oscar Navarro: He stood face to face with the devil and endured demonic tricks.
• 1:57
  Oscar Navarro: He dealt with death.
• 1:58
  Oscar Navarro: He endured gossip and slander.
• 2:01
  Oscar Navarro: He endured suffering for righteous sake.
• 2:04
  Oscar Navarro: He was shamed publicly.
• 2:07
  Oscar Navarro: He experienced periods of hunger.
• 2:10
  Oscar Navarro: He received criticism over his ministry.
• 2:13
  Oscar Navarro: His theology was mocked.
• 2:14
  Oscar Navarro: His message was rejected.
• 2:16
  Oscar Navarro: His preaching was critiqued.
• 2:19
  Oscar Navarro: His disciples, his closest friends, didn't get it and furthermore, worst of it all, or the one that matters most, he endured complete separation from God.
• 2:32
  Oscar Navarro: Why did he endure complete separation from God?
• 2:36
  Oscar Navarro: Which he says on the cross my God, my God, why have you forsaken me, so that we would not have to experience that separation from God?
• 2:45
  Oscar Navarro: He is our savior, who sympathizes with our weaknesses and with our needs, and through that sympathy we have salvation.
• 2:56
  Oscar Navarro: That is the power we have to sympathize with other people.
• 3:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Something really ruffled my feathers this morning.
• 3:10
  Emeal Zwayne: My fair feathered friends Last night, in the middle of the night, this song that I have not heard in I don't know five, six, seven, eight years.
• 3:20
  Emeal Zwayne: It's been a long time.
• 3:21
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm smiling because I know you're going to sing, just popped into my mind, you guys will remember this one.
• 3:27
  Ray Comfort: Please send your kids out of the room.
• 3:28
  Emeal Zwayne: It's an oldie but a goodie, here it goes My-a-e-a, my-e-oo, my-e-a, my-e-a-a.
• 3:37
  Emeal Zwayne: You guys remember that one?
• 3:38
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I don't remember the words.
• 3:39
  Mark Spence: That's pretty good.
• 3:40
  Emeal Zwayne: Remember it went viral.
• 3:40
  Emeal Zwayne: It's some Romanian song it sounds like my chickens.
• 3:45
  Ray Comfort: Tony, this is urgent.
• 3:46
  Oscar Navarro: I'm unable to mute easy.
• 3:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Maybe it was your chickens, but remember this one guy, this real funny guy, lip-synced the song just sitting at his computer on the camera and it went viral, it exploded and I just out of nowhere how does a brain do that?
• 4:05
  Ray Comfort: That is funny.
• 4:05
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I find the same thing and I've got memories from like 50 years ago that I what am I hanging on to that for?
• 4:11
  Ray Comfort: It's just a weird little happening man seriously, it's scary to think of like you know, the brain has stuff stored in it.
• 4:17
  Emeal Zwayne: But what determines what stuff it pops up, you know, at the forefront of your mind.
• 4:23
  Ray Comfort: Who's getting the?
• 4:23
  Emeal Zwayne: files to the front.
• 4:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, who does this?
• 4:25
  Emeal Zwayne: But the reason why my feathers are ruffled is because I tried to hum the tune into Siri to find the song for me and it didn't work.
• 4:36
  Emeal Zwayne: And you're surprised.
• 4:37
  Emeal Zwayne: That made me so mad.
• 4:39
  Emeal Zwayne: How crazy you guys.
• 4:41
  Emeal Zwayne: Now you could actually, if you're walking through somewhere, you could tell your phone to listen and it'll find the song for you.
• 4:48
  Ray Comfort: Why is this set as listening my iPad after you said that just says I'm listening you serious, yeah, it's synchronized to my voice today.
• 4:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, so I'm looking, because I had the tune going through my head but I didn't remember what it was.
• 5:01
  Mark Spence: Maybe it only recognizes masculine voices.
• 5:04
  Emeal Zwayne: I put in fat guy singing funny song and it was the first thing to pop up on YouTube.
• 5:09
  Emeal Zwayne: Really, yeah, oh, that was very funny.
• 5:14
  Ray Comfort: Thanks for sharing that.
• 5:15
  Ray Comfort: That was really edifying.
• 5:16
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, that was my whole point right.
• 5:18
  Emeal Zwayne: That guy's a listener by the way.
• 5:20
  Emeal Zwayne: I come to bring edification.
• 5:23
  Emeal Zwayne: He doesn't care.
• 5:24
  Emeal Zwayne: That dude's a legend now.
• 5:25
  Emeal Zwayne: But that got me thinking.
• 5:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Where do we get these sayings Ruffled my feathers.
• 5:32
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray, you immediately thought of your chickens, Of course.
• 5:35
  Ray Comfort: Why?
• 5:35
  Ray Comfort: Because they've got feathers, and when I brush them, they ruffle.
• 5:41
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I don't brush them.
• 5:43
  Emeal Zwayne: They unruffle I could totally see you brushing your chickens, yeah, but stuff like ruffles my feathers gets under my skin.
• 5:53
  Ray Comfort: Or the fur on your back of your head stands up.
• 5:55
  Ray Comfort: Have you heard that one?
• 5:56
  Ray Comfort: The back of your head, yeah, back of your neck, oh, your neck.
• 5:58
  Ray Comfort: That's when you're really angry.
• 5:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, or sticks in my craw.
• 6:02
  Emeal Zwayne: What?
• 6:03
  Oscar Navarro: You ever heard that one?
• 6:04
  Oscar Navarro: That's not a thing I don't know.
• 6:05
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, it is oh yeah, oh, that really sticks in my craw, rubs me the wrong way.
• 6:09
  Emeal Zwayne: What's that one?
• 6:11
  Mark Spence: It goes the opposite way, like a shark Like a shark, I think DL.
• 6:14
  Ray Comfort: Moody said does this rub you up the wrong way?
• 6:18
  Ray Comfort: Then let the cat turn around.
• 6:20
  Ray Comfort: Oh.
• 6:21
  Emeal Zwayne: So it's going against the grain Is that what that means.
• 6:24
  Oscar Navarro: Debra has this story where he's preaching somewhere in the Middle East and he's got a translator that's translating everything he's saying into Farsi, I think and so he's going through a sermon and then he gets to like something he's going to say and he goes.
• 6:36
  Oscar Navarro: You know, it's the straw, the boat broke the camel's back and he looks over at the guy translating, he goes.
• 6:43
  Oscar Navarro: I don't know if you guys have that phrase here and the translator goes, that phrase comes from here.
• 6:46
  Oscar Navarro: If you guys have that phrase here and the translator goes, that phrase comes from here, that's funny.
• 6:50
  Emeal Zwayne: That's really good, yeah, but a bunch of them were coming to mind Fly off, the handle Spitting mad or feeling down in the mouth, which is ridiculous.
• 6:59
  Ray Comfort: Down in the mouth.
• 7:00
  Ray Comfort: Down in the mouth Up in the nose you ever heard feeling down in the mouth when you're depressed?
• 7:03
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, dentists actually.
• 7:08
  Emeal Zwayne: But isn't it so weird, ray, like you said that and immediately it brought something to my mind.
• 7:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Oscar didn't know it, so he can't connect, but when you know something, when you break down the idiom literally, it makes no sense.
• 7:20
  Emeal Zwayne: But we can connect with it the word idiom comes from idiot.
• 7:23
  Ray Comfort: Idiot idiom.
• 7:25
  Oscar Navarro: Or, like you guys ever say, you're the spaghetti to my meatball.
• 7:27
  Emeal Zwayne: What no?
• 7:30
  Oscar Navarro: I just made that up.
• 7:31
  Ray Comfort: You just started a new thing.
• 7:33
  Emeal Zwayne: A bone to pick, flipped my lid, tickled me pink.
• 7:36
  Emeal Zwayne: What's that?
• 7:37
  Emeal Zwayne: Tickled me pink.
• 7:38
  Ray Comfort: Well, you know, if you start tickling me, I'll go pink, seriously.
• 7:40
  Ray Comfort: Yeah don't even joke, prove it.
• 7:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Red, you go red no you start with pink before you go red.
• 7:46
  Emeal Zwayne: That's the starting stage.
• 7:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Over the moon, on cloud nine, happy camper.
• 7:54
  Mark Spence: Happy camper?
• 7:54
  Mark Spence: Yeah, there's no such thing as happy campers.
• 7:56
  Ray Comfort: Not in the Spence family.
• 7:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Not in real life.
• 7:59
  Ray Comfort: Not when there's a beer, comes in your tent.
• 8:01
  Mark Spence: You have like five little kids you've got to take care of in the tent, had a whale of a time.
• 8:06
  Ray Comfort: A whale of a time, a whale of a time Whale of a time that was started by Jonah yeah.
• 8:10
  Oscar Navarro: It wasn't good how was your ship.
• 8:12
  Oscar Navarro: Shipwreck.
• 8:13
  Emeal Zwayne: I had a whale of a time and then happy as Larry.
• 8:16
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, we met Larry in Santa Monica Remember.
• 8:18
  Emeal Zwayne: Larry?
• 8:18
  Emeal Zwayne: What's your name, larry?
• 8:20
  Emeal Zwayne: After he claimed to be God, you've heard that one, franz.
• 8:23
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, I got to cut this short because we have a long comment and this one's worth reading.
• 8:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Time for a cool, classy comment.
• 8:29
  Emeal Zwayne: Greetings, easy, ray, mark and Oscar.
• 8:32
  Emeal Zwayne: My name is Julia and this email comes to you from Gilbert, arizona.
• 8:38
  Emeal Zwayne: I'd like to share a story, one that is still unfolding but reveals God's smiling providence and how he truly is in every detail of our lives.
• 8:45
  Emeal Zwayne: About one year ago, I was engaged to another professing believer, eager and excited to be married.
• 8:49
  Emeal Zwayne: A few weeks before our scheduled wedding, the relationship was brought to an abrupt end and he left my life faster than I could recover the air in my lungs.
• 8:58
  Emeal Zwayne: But it is moments like those that remind you how sweet the Lord's mercy is in every breath we take.
• 9:05
  Emeal Zwayne: That fall, I had the blessing and opportunity to attend G3 conference with a few members of my church.
• 9:10
  Emeal Zwayne: It is impossible to put to words the way the Lord used that conference to minister to my aching heart and connect with people that would be instrumental in encouraging me during an emotionally trialing season.
• 9:22
  Emeal Zwayne: And a few of you were there too, recording several episodes of the Living Waters podcast, which I had the privilege to witness, fast forward a few more months and, after much encouragement of my friends and my pastors, I created a dating profile on a Christian dating site.
• 9:37
  Emeal Zwayne: One of my photos on the profile included a picture snapped at G3, me and a few friends standing before one of the giant G3 photo op signs.
• 9:45
  Emeal Zwayne: In fact, I think your booth is behind me in the photo.
• 9:49
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, not too long after my profile went up did I receive a message from a very cute, if I can add, gentleman.
• 9:54
  Emeal Zwayne: It turns out this gentleman is a huge Living Waters podcast fan.
• 9:58
  Emeal Zwayne: He listens to every episode you release.
• 10:01
  Emeal Zwayne: It turns out that he had just listened to one of the episodes you recorded at G3 a week or two prior.
• 10:07
  Emeal Zwayne: It turns out that it would be on that episode that he would learn about G3 Ministries for the first time.
• 10:12
  Emeal Zwayne: It turns out that my profile showed up in his feed and he saw my G3 photo.
• 10:17
  Emeal Zwayne: It turns out that he felt confident that I'd listened to Saul's biblical teaching if I was at G3, all to the praise of the Lord that I am under Saul's teaching.
• 10:26
  Emeal Zwayne: And it turns out that our first date was so clearly a gift from the Lord and he redeemed the brokenness sin.
• 10:34
  Ray Comfort: We all have a little violin in the background, an heartache of our lives.
• 10:39
  Emeal Zwayne: We went on our second date the very next day, but of course none of this is a surprise, because the Lord knew all of this and would ordain every ordinary moment that led to the first time that Travis and I got coffee together.
• 10:51
  Emeal Zwayne: One of the Christian hymns highlighted this past year at G3 belongs to William Cowper, and in it he writes Judge not the Lord by feeble sense, but trust him for his grace.
• 11:01
  Emeal Zwayne: Behind a frowning providence he hides a smiling face, Again hard to put to words.
• 11:07
  Emeal Zwayne: That way, a few days in Atlanta would be used so abundantly by the Lord.
• 11:13
  Emeal Zwayne: I share this with you because Travis and I have so much gratitude in our hearts for the four of you and for your Living Waters ministry.
• 11:20
  Emeal Zwayne: It not only has been used by God to bring us together from strangers to preparing for marriage, but also has been used by Him to encourage us, convict us, challenge us and bring us closer together, as you have pointed us to Christ time and time again.
• 11:33
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you for being part of our story and for being instruments of God's truth and encouragement in our lives each week.
• 11:40
  Emeal Zwayne: I pray that I follow up this email with a wedding announcement soon.
• 11:44
  Mark Spence: Are we gonna be invited?
• 11:46
  Ray Comfort: That would be a great sanctified hallmark movie.
• 11:48
  Ray Comfort: Mark will officiate and he's guaranteed.
• 11:49
  Oscar Navarro: Are we going to be invited?
• 11:50
  Oscar Navarro: That would be a great sanctified Hallmark movie.
• 11:51
  Oscar Navarro: Mark will officiate and he's guaranteed to get at least half your names, right?
• 11:54
  Emeal Zwayne: That will never die.
• 11:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, Julia, that's amazing.
• 11:58
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, Thank you so much.
• 12:00
  Emeal Zwayne: That's from Julia Logering and I hope I pronounced that right L-O-E-G-E-R-I-N-G.
• 12:07
  Emeal Zwayne: That really touched us.
• 12:08
  Emeal Zwayne: And how cool you think of the different stories.
• 12:10
  Emeal Zwayne: We've had people that have met.
• 12:12
  Emeal Zwayne: I think there was a couple that may have met at our ambassador's academy ended up getting married.
• 12:18
  Oscar Navarro: When we did London, we had a couple.
• 12:20
  Oscar Navarro: She lived somewhere in.
• 12:22
  Ray Comfort: Africa.
• 12:22
  Ray Comfort: Could you be a little more specific?
• 12:23
  Ray Comfort: When we did London?
• 12:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah what did you do in London?
• 12:26
  Oscar Navarro: We did the London outreach, the King's coordination.
• 12:29
  Oscar Navarro: We had a couple at least a thousand plus people come to help hand out tracks and we did a conference before to encourage, to edify and to get people out there training as well.
• 12:42
  Oscar Navarro: And while we were there we met a couple.
• 12:44
  Oscar Navarro: She was from Africa, he was from Canada.
• 12:47
  Oscar Navarro: I believe they were engaged and they only get to see each other once a year.
• 12:49
  Oscar Navarro: She was from Africa, he was from Canada.
• 12:49
  Oscar Navarro: I believe they were engaged and they only get to see each other once a year.
• 12:51
  Oscar Navarro: That's all they can afford and they determined to use our outreach to see each other before their wedding.
• 12:57
  Oscar Navarro: Isn't that cool, wow Praise.
• 12:58
  Emeal Zwayne: God, we are bringing people together.
• 13:01
  Oscar Navarro: Every year.
• 13:01
  Emeal Zwayne: I hope we don't get blamed for divorces one day.
• 13:04
  Emeal Zwayne: God forbid All right friends.
• 13:09
  Oscar Navarro: It all started when he started listening to your podcast.
• 13:11
  Emeal Zwayne: We could send him a wedding gift card of Chick-fil-A oh yeah, now that Ray has thousands, all right friends, time for a radically revolutionary resource Made in Heaven Man's indiscriminate stealing of God's amazing design.
• 13:28
  Emeal Zwayne: One of my absolute favorites, in fact, ray.
• 13:31
  Emeal Zwayne: I was looking at the cover this morning.
• 13:32
  Emeal Zwayne: I can't get over what a brilliant job they did on this.
• 13:36
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, it's beautiful and the photos are magnificent.
• 13:40
  Ray Comfort: The layout just everything.
• 13:42
  Oscar Navarro: I mean it's really really top-notch you know it's good because it's one of the few books Ray remembers writing.
• 13:49
  Emeal Zwayne: Because it has pictures in it.
• 13:50
  Emeal Zwayne: That's why All right friends make sure to check it out, along with the Living Waters mug and the Evidence Study Bible all at livingwaterscom.
• 14:02
  Emeal Zwayne: Hey, it's supposed to match me.
• 14:03
  Emeal Zwayne: It did, it was fun.
• 14:06
  Mark Spence: That's how I sound really Squeaky.
• 14:08
  Emeal Zwayne: All right friends, On to the show.
• 14:13
  Ray Comfort: Today we are talking about.
• 14:15
  Ray Comfort: I'd like to see a picture of your vocal cords Scritchy they are.
• 14:18
  Mark Spence: And I want to get a picture of your brainwaves on how you work and act and respond.
• 14:22
  Mark Spence: You don't slow down, yeah.
• 14:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray oh, I should have, you should have gone to the Smithsonian.
• 14:29
  Oscar Navarro: I'd love to see that Ray comforts brainwaves.
• 14:30
  Oscar Navarro: They go into it and it's just a monkey.
• 14:35
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray, how far are you into your new book, Ray?
• 14:38
  Ray Comfort: 34% through.
• 14:40
  Emeal Zwayne: Wow, when did you start it, ray?
• 14:42
  Ray Comfort: About two and a half weeks ago, wow.
• 14:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Amazing.
• 14:46
  Emeal Zwayne: Let's not talk about how long it took me to write my book.
• 14:47
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, wow, that's amazing.
• 14:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Let's not talk about how long it took me To write my book.
• 14:49
  Emeal Zwayne: Alright, friends, I suppose you're going to Ask for the title.
• 14:52
  Ray Comfort: The title of my book, no, not yours.
• 14:54
  Oscar Navarro: Mine.
• 14:56
  Mark Spence: Do you know the title Of your book?
• 14:57
  Ray Comfort: Yes, jesus, amplified Going back to the Original Greek Words of Jesus.
• 15:01
  Ray Comfort: That's fun.
• 15:02
  Emeal Zwayne: That's great Jesus, that's great Ray Wow.
• 15:07
  Ray Comfort: Repent you better edit that out.
• 15:09
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm thinking of the Lord all the time that I do that.
• 15:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Amen, all right, friends.
• 15:13
  Emeal Zwayne: On to the topic of the day Today the sovereignty of God, boy anything is fitting.
• 15:19
  Ray Comfort: What is it?
• 15:19
  Ray Comfort: Should we have a show?
• 15:20
  Ray Comfort: Sympathetic, Be sympathetic.
• 15:22
  Ray Comfort: Wait what?
• 15:23
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, yeah, you got the wrong one.
• 15:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Sympathy, it's sympathy.
• 15:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Next one is sovereignty.
• 15:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Wait oh.
• 15:31
  Oscar Navarro: I went down too far.
• 15:31
  Ray Comfort: Oh, how to grow in being sympathetic.
• 15:32
  Ray Comfort: Spoiler alert what our next one's going to be.
• 15:33
  Ray Comfort: We're just getting sympathy towards you Easy.
• 15:35
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh man, I switched up the comment.
• 15:37
  Emeal Zwayne: It was supposed to go on the other one.
• 15:39
  Emeal Zwayne: Why do you guys do this to me?
• 15:42
  Emeal Zwayne: It's your fault, oscar Easy we're being sympathetic towards you.
• 15:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Okay, and just rest in the sovereignty of God, if you messed up.
• 15:48
  Mark Spence: Maybe if you showed up on time he's.
• 15:52
  Emeal Zwayne: You guys are bad people, all right.
• 15:54
  Emeal Zwayne: So there we are.
• 15:56
  Emeal Zwayne: We're talking about.
• 15:56
  Emeal Zwayne: You can hear the disappointment.
• 15:58
  Emeal Zwayne: At least I have the notes this time.
• 16:00
  Emeal Zwayne: How to grow in being sympathetic toward people?
• 16:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Here's the online definition of biblical sympathy people.
• 16:11
  Emeal Zwayne: Here's the online definition of biblical sympathy.
• 16:12
  Emeal Zwayne: In the Bible, sympathy is the ability to understand another person's situation, especially when they are suffering or in pain, to share that experience.
• 16:18
  Ray Comfort: What are you doing, ray?
• 16:18
  Ray Comfort: Hurry up Easy.
• 16:19
  Ray Comfort: Will you hurry Get on?
• 16:20
  Emeal Zwayne: with it.
• 16:20
  Emeal Zwayne: Why do I under?
• 16:22
  Ray Comfort: I think Mark started that, this movement, the turning of the hand to say hurry up, yeah.
• 16:27
  Emeal Zwayne: The word sympathy comes from the Greek word, which can also mean to be affected by the same feeling as another or to show a willingness to help because of a shared feeling.
• 16:40
  Ray Comfort: I like that, isn't it?
• 16:41
  Ray Comfort: One down from empathy?
• 16:42
  Ray Comfort: Yes.
• 16:44
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah.
• 16:45
  Ray Comfort: Sympathy is what Jesus had.
• 16:46
  Ray Comfort: Sympathy is what kind of we've got.
• 16:49
  Mark Spence: Yeah, boy, I have a lot to talk about that.
• 16:51
  Ray Comfort: Okay, is it a good time to?
• 16:52
  Emeal Zwayne: talk about that Talk.
• 16:53
  Emeal Zwayne: Go ahead, talk, mark talk.
• 16:55
  Mark Spence: The Christian walk is first about fellowshipping with God and then fellowshipping with each other.
• 17:02
  Mark Spence: Right, our fellowship with each other is designed to go deeper than sports and politics Our koinonia, our fellowship with one another.
• 17:11
  Mark Spence: In order to go deep, we move from sympathy a lot of times to empathy, right, sympathy is like you got into an accident and you broke your wrist.
• 17:24
  Mark Spence: Man, I sympathize with you.
• 17:25
  Mark Spence: I've never broken a wrist.
• 17:26
  Mark Spence: Right.
• 17:27
  Mark Spence: Empathy takes it a step further, because I understand what you've gone through, because I've gone through that.
• 17:31
  Mark Spence: Right.
• 17:33
  Mark Spence: So somebody who loses a limb, for example, and has no ability to walk anymore, can look at you as you try to sympathize with them, and they respond with well, you don't know what it's like to go through what I'm going through.
• 17:45
  Mark Spence: They can't say that same thing to somebody like Johnny Erickson, tata.
• 17:50
  Mark Spence: Right, because they've walked in those steps, no pun intended.
• 17:55
  Mark Spence: Right, that they have been where they have gone.
• 17:58
  Mark Spence: Well, we listen.
• 17:59
  Mark Spence: Scripture says that some are appointed to suffer for his namesake.
• 18:02
  Mark Spence: And there are a lot of people that are rallying around a close family member of mine with great sympathy.
• 18:08
  Mark Spence: And then there's a couple of people that are coming along with great empathy because they've gone through what this family member has gone through and my family member and this individual can weep together and they're speaking each other's language.
• 18:24
  Mark Spence: They understand each other without having to say anything else.
• 18:28
  Mark Spence: That's good.
• 18:29
  Mark Spence: Right, it's like I weep with those who weep, of course, but weeping with somebody who's gone through what I've gone through, it's like no language is necessary, no scripture is needed, no anecdote, no, nothing.
• 18:42
  Mark Spence: It's like there's an understanding and then they're dwelling in deep koinonia, fellowship, because they've walked in that same position as the other person.
• 18:53
  Mark Spence: Right, there's the difference between sympathy and empathy, right?
• 18:57
  Mark Spence: Sympathy you feel sorry for someone's misfortune, you recognize their pain, but you don't share their emotional experience because you've never experienced it yourself.
• 19:05
  Mark Spence: Empathy the ability to understand and share the feelings of another person.
• 19:10
  Mark Spence: It involves putting yourself in their shoes and experiencing their emotions as if they were your own, because you've been through it yourself.
• 19:21
  Mark Spence: There's the greater difference.
• 19:24
  Mark Spence: Now, what does this bring?
• 19:25
  Mark Spence: Here's the obvious You're going to go through it.
• 19:28
  Mark Spence: You are not going through what you're going through for your own sake.
• 19:33
  Mark Spence: When you go through that fire, as you get older, as you mature, as you learn, you're going to grow, you're going to change, you're going to mature, and now you're able to share those things with other people that the Lord has shared with you.
• 19:47
  Mark Spence: Listen, you're going to mature and now you're able to share those things with other people that the Lord has shared with you.
• 19:51
  Mark Spence: Listen, you're going to make it.
• 19:53
  Mark Spence: This, too, shall come to pass.
• 19:56
  Mark Spence: But, god, this isn't our home.
• 19:58
  Mark Spence: This removes the roots here on earth and has your roots to grow vertical up into heaven instead of down here on earth, because this isn't our home.
• 20:05
  Mark Spence: Right, we are homesick for a home we've never been to, and this is what trials are going to do.
• 20:09
  Mark Spence: And when people are able to empathize more than sympathize, it's just a prettier picture.
• 20:15
  Mark Spence: But nobody wants to go through pain, right?
• 20:17
  Mark Spence: I'm allergic to not a lot of things, but I'm allergic to pain.
• 20:20
  Mark Spence: Right, it doesn't do well with my body.
• 20:23
  Mark Spence: But God says no, listen, you need those trials If you want to have those spiritual muscles stretched.
• 20:30
  Mark Spence: You got to go through the trial and that's the only way you can have those muscles stretched.
• 20:33
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray sing Refiners Fire.
• 20:36
  Ray Comfort: No no no, you cannot make me.
• 20:38
  Emeal Zwayne: How does it go, though I?
• 20:38
  Mark Spence: don't remember the word.
• 20:39
  Ray Comfort: I've never heard it before.
• 20:40
  Ray Comfort: What's the opening four lines Gang up on me.
• 20:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, mark, that was beautifully put and you know it reminds me of 2 Corinthians 1, where it talks about how he comforts us in all our affliction, that we may be able to comfort others with the comfort with which we ourselves were comforted by God.
• 20:58
  Emeal Zwayne: Amen Perfect.
• 20:59
  Emeal Zwayne: And that is that level of empathy, you know and I was relating this to someone the other day like what it's like when you've been to another country and it's been a while and you haven't been home and then you meet someone who's not just from your country but even from your state and sometimes from your area.
• 21:19
  Emeal Zwayne: That's happened to me a number of times Like have you eaten at this restaurant?
• 21:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, I love that restaurant and like they're talking about streets and areas and you feel at home while away from home.
• 21:28
  Mark Spence: Do you ever go back to Westminster areas where you kind of grew up in?
• 21:31
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, all the time.
• 21:32
  Emeal Zwayne: In fact, I was wanting to go by the other day because I was in Huntington, I was near it and I'm like yesterday in fact again, I just always love to go back.
• 21:39
  Ray Comfort: So that was when you were in the Crips.
• 21:40
  Ray Comfort: You want to go back.
• 21:42
  Emeal Zwayne: No, that was beforehand, was beforehand.
• 21:50
  Ray Comfort: that's when I was uh uh, choking kids in elementary school.
• 21:51
  Ray Comfort: Anyway, why do you bring out bad memories?
• 21:53
  Ray Comfort: Right, they were good memories, as I'm concerned.
• 21:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, it's great.
• 21:55
  Emeal Zwayne: So, um, so, yeah, um, yeah, I was always fighting.
• 21:58
  Emeal Zwayne: Just to give context to that, I wasn't going around killing people also he was going around killing people.
• 22:03
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah um, but no, you know what I mean, though.
• 22:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Right like that feeling of you meet people in another country that are from your home and you just feel at home all of a sudden, because they're speaking your language, they know your area, they've eaten at the same restaurants, they're familiar with the climate, everything.
• 22:21
  Ray Comfort: When I meet someone from down under, I just say meat, pies, fish and chips, meat pie, meat pie.
• 22:25
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, oh, meat pie.
• 22:27
  Ray Comfort: It's not white boy Meat pie.
• 22:29
  Emeal Zwayne: Meat pie, Well it happens with Lebanese people too.
• 22:32
  Emeal Zwayne: When I run into someone Lebanese, just like immediately the walls are broken down.
• 22:36
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I say tabouli to Lebanese people.
• 22:39
  Emeal Zwayne: No, you say other terrible things that your dad taught you when you were a little boy.
• 22:42
  Emeal Zwayne: What is it May ruin?
• 22:44
  Ray Comfort: come upon your home, you empty head, yeah my dad was in the war and he learned a few phrases from the Middle East and I picked them up.
• 22:50
  Ray Comfort: I don't know what they meant, but I told him it's easy and his hair's still on end.
• 22:53
  Ray Comfort: I can't believe you weren't killed by some Arab.
• 22:55
  Ray Comfort: Yeah.
• 22:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Arabidik mafishmok, Yakhrabaitak mafishmok May ruin.
• 23:00
  Emeal Zwayne: Come upon your house.
• 23:02
  Mark Spence: You empty head this is what Ray was going around telling Arab people and he'd smile and laugh.
• 23:07
  Mark Spence: Do you say it with an Indian accent?
• 23:09
  Mark Spence: Of course?
• 23:10
  Emeal Zwayne: You're going to pay to my future mom.
• 23:11
  Emeal Zwayne: That was pretty good, anyway, but yeah, that's great.
• 23:18
  Emeal Zwayne: And yet, at the same time, I think, though, sympathy is not empathy.
• 23:24
  Emeal Zwayne: There's a general element to sympathy because, generally speaking, we've all been through tough times, even if it's not that particular thing that person is going through, which is why it gives all of us the ability to be able to minister to each other's believers and the word again sympatheo.
• 23:41
  Emeal Zwayne: It means to have fellow feelings with, to be touched and moved with the feelings of another's infirmities, to share in the sufferings of another, to experience tender compassion with another, to experience the painful experiences and miseries of another.
• 23:53
  Emeal Zwayne: So it's kind of like you're entering someone's world and, even though sometimes you don't intimately understand, you can say, generally speaking, I've been through tough times, I've gone through pain.
• 24:03
  Emeal Zwayne: It hurts.
• 24:04
  Ray Comfort: Ever stubbed your toe?
• 24:05
  Ray Comfort: Really bad, oh yeah, that is so painful.
• 24:09
  Ray Comfort: So when Seusses have just stubbed my toe, I'm empathetic.
• 24:12
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I don't laugh.
• 24:16
  Emeal Zwayne: What as he cracks up now You're going all hot, right, you're going all Reed.
• 24:22
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, speaking of laughing, I was just talking to friends of ours their faithful listeners, brian and Linda, and they were telling me this story about how Brian had this excruciating sunburn.
• 24:35
  Oscar Navarro: It was so bad, and he asks his wife, linda, to put aloe vera on his back, and so she's starting to rub it onto his back.
• 24:43
  Oscar Navarro: He's like, oh, it burns.
• 24:45
  Oscar Navarro: And she's like, oh, knock it off, it's just aloe vera.
• 24:47
  Oscar Navarro: And she looked and it was.
• 24:49
  Oscar Navarro: It was.
• 24:52
  Ray Comfort: Kerosene?
• 24:52
  Ray Comfort: No, basically it was rubbing alcohol Hand sanitizer.
• 24:55
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh boy, you know, some lady convinced my sister when she was younger.
• 25:02
  Emeal Zwayne: She put like I think it was something like cooking oil on her body before she went out sunbathing at the beach.
• 25:10
  Emeal Zwayne: It totally burned her body it was horrible.
• 25:13
  Ray Comfort: There's an old wives' tale if I can say wives' tale that butter on a burn is supposed to help it.
• 25:18
  Ray Comfort: But that's a myth.
• 25:19
  Oscar Navarro: And then you go back outside.
• 25:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, yeah, you think of the tragedies that people face from just listening to advice, or like they used to drill holes in your skull when you had a headache.
• 25:31
  Oscar Navarro: That's real.
• 25:32
  Oscar Navarro: No, that is real.
• 25:33
  Oscar Navarro: We have, like we find mummified bodies that had drilled drilled holes into their skulls because they thought it would relieve pressure for don't knock it till, you try it yeah, oscar, i'm'll bust out the drill guys.
• 25:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, so.
• 25:48
  Ray Comfort: I'll tell my dentist next time.
• 25:51
  Emeal Zwayne: So 1 Peter 3.8,.
• 25:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.
• 26:00
  Emeal Zwayne: So, Oscar, there we have an imperative from Scripture, and the Word of God is telling us be sympathetic.
• 26:06
  Emeal Zwayne: And I think this kind of ties together.
• 26:09
  Emeal Zwayne: When you're like-minded, it creates sympathy in you, you know, and tied to that is love, because when you're sympathetic you end up showing love.
• 26:17
  Emeal Zwayne: That creates compassion.
• 26:19
  Emeal Zwayne: And I think it's all connected to a heart of humility of just saying look, I'm your servant, so how can I come alongside you?
• 26:25
  Emeal Zwayne: That's good.
• 26:26
  Oscar Navarro: I wonder about the person who struggles with sympathy.
• 26:28
  Oscar Navarro: They might be asking like where do I get the power to sympathize with other people?
• 26:33
  Oscar Navarro: And I would say you need to look to Christ and see that he was sympathetic towards you.
• 26:39
  Oscar Navarro: Hebrews 4, verse 15, for we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weakness.
• 26:47
  Oscar Navarro: God does not just stand over and above human suffering and human weakness.
• 26:53
  Oscar Navarro: He is the God who laid down his crown and willingly stepped into our human suffering.
• 27:01
  Oscar Navarro: He was the God who experienced homelessness Matthew 8, 20.
• 27:07
  Oscar Navarro: His family thought he was crazy.
• 27:09
  Oscar Navarro: His best friends turned their back on him.
• 27:11
  Oscar Navarro: One of his closest confidants sold him for a pocket change.
• 27:15
  Oscar Navarro: He stood face to face with the devil and endured demonic tricks.
• 27:19
  Oscar Navarro: He dealt with death.
• 27:21
  Oscar Navarro: He endured gossip and slander.
• 27:24
  Oscar Navarro: He endured suffering for righteous sake.
• 27:27
  Oscar Navarro: He was shamed publicly.
• 27:29
  Oscar Navarro: He experienced periods of hunger.
• 27:33
  Oscar Navarro: He received criticism over his ministry.
• 27:35
  Oscar Navarro: His theology was mocked.
• 27:37
  Oscar Navarro: His message was rejected.
• 27:39
  Oscar Navarro: His preaching was critiqued.
• 27:42
  Oscar Navarro: His disciples his closest friends didn't get it.
• 27:45
  Oscar Navarro: Disciples, his closest friends didn't get it.
• 27:50
  Oscar Navarro: And furthermore, worst of it all, or the one that matters most, he endured complete separation from God.
• 27:56
  Oscar Navarro: Why did he endure?
• 27:57
  Oscar Navarro: Complete separation from God?
• 27:59
  Oscar Navarro: Which he says on the cross.
• 28:00
  Oscar Navarro: My God, my God, why have you forsaken me so that we would not have to experience that separation from God?
• 28:08
  Oscar Navarro: He is our savior, who sympathizes with our weaknesses and with our needs, and through that sympathy we have salvation.
• 28:18
  Oscar Navarro: That is the power we have to sympathize with other people.
• 28:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, hebrews 4 is one of my absolute favorites, and then Hebrews 2, 17 to 18, and therefore, in all things he had to be made like his brethren that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest and things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
• 28:37
  Emeal Zwayne: For in that, he himself has suffered, being tempted, he's able to aid those who are tempted, because there's that element of sympathy.
• 28:45
  Emeal Zwayne: It's not just this sort of sentiment, but it's power-packed in that it leads to action, it leads to saying I don't just have it, I want to help you, I want to enter your world and help bring you out of it.
• 28:58
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, john Fawcett, in kind of keeping with what you shared, oscar, he said the Son of God, had he never become incarnate, might have pitied, but he could not have sympathized with his people.
• 29:08
  Emeal Zwayne: To render him capable of sympathy, it was necessary that he should become man, that he might be susceptible to suffering, and that he should actually be a sufferer, that he might be susceptible to sympathy.
• 29:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, so, ray, there are times when we are busy, we have a lot going on, and there is what I call the get-a-grip syndrome that I think we can sometimes have as believers, like, come on, get a grip.
• 29:36
  Emeal Zwayne: It's something we haven't gone through personally and we just quickly want to just try to shoot a few things out at a person.
• 29:43
  Emeal Zwayne: But I remember you calling me before even Rachel and I had started our relationship, we'd just become friends.
• 29:50
  Emeal Zwayne: I remember I was sick and you called me just to check on me and there was such a sympathy.
• 29:57
  Emeal Zwayne: I've always noticed that about you when someone isn't feeling well, you have a deep sympathy.
• 30:01
  Emeal Zwayne: What's that about, ray?
• 30:04
  Ray Comfort: I have no idea.
• 30:05
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't know, because of my kidney stain.
• 30:08
  Emeal Zwayne: What's that about, ray?
• 30:09
  Emeal Zwayne: I have no idea, I don't know.
• 30:10
  Ray Comfort: Because of my kidney stain.
• 30:10
  Ray Comfort: I sympathize with everybody now.
• 30:11
  Ray Comfort: I looked ahead to my kidney stone that was coming when I called you that day, but I think it's something that we have to bring into our witnessing encounters with unsaved people.
• 30:20
  Emeal Zwayne: Wow.
• 30:21
  Ray Comfort: To see their perspectives.
• 30:22
  Ray Comfort: I was witnessing to a homosexual just yesterday and he said I'm a Christian, I love the Lord, I just don't believe the Bible.
• 30:32
  Ray Comfort: And I had to come on heavy with him because of that fact.
• 30:38
  Ray Comfort: I said how can you love the Lord and not read the Bible?
• 30:40
  Ray Comfort: But I had to at the same time think of his perspective because he's coming with this baggage in mind.
• 30:49
  Ray Comfort: He knows he said I know religious people and they're very harsh.
• 30:53
  Ray Comfort: And I says I hope I haven't come across as harsh today.
• 30:56
  Ray Comfort: He says no, not at all.
• 30:58
  Ray Comfort: So we have to pull that sympathetic tone into our witnessing by seeing unsaved people's perspectives.
• 31:04
  Ray Comfort: I think I love the Bible verse that says a servant of the Bible, verse that says a servant of the Lord must not strive but be gentle unto all men, because Satan's blinded their minds.
• 31:13
  Ray Comfort: They haven't got a clue what we're talking about.
• 31:15
  Ray Comfort: The God of this world is blind in the minds.
• 31:21
  Ray Comfort: Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
• 31:22
  Ray Comfort: So what we're talking about is like light to a blind man, and so we've got to sympathize with their perspective.
• 31:26
  Ray Comfort: They cannot see what we're talking about.
• 31:29
  Oscar Navarro: Wow, so um this kind of that.
• 31:31
  Oscar Navarro: You're reminding me of something, ray, which I I probably shared on episode 50, uh, and it kind of goes along with what you were talking about earlier, mark um, which, for those of you maybe who came on, started listening.
• 31:42
  Oscar Navarro: More recently, I had a sister 13 years younger than me, sweet, just one of my closest friends.
• 31:49
  Oscar Navarro: She passed away, took her own life a number of years ago and in the midst of her struggle with depression and anxiety, at one point she wanted to get a job.
• 32:01
  Oscar Navarro: You know, when you're struggling with depression, you tend to isolate yourself, which is the worst thing that you can do.
• 32:07
  Oscar Navarro: And so at one point she was ambitious.
• 32:10
  Oscar Navarro: She wanted to get a job where she'd be in front of people.
• 32:12
  Oscar Navarro: So she went and got a job at Disneyland, hoping that just the interaction with other people would help pull her out of her desire to isolate.
• 32:21
  Oscar Navarro: And sometimes she'd come home and she'd just have like the greatest day.
• 32:25
  Oscar Navarro: People were so kind and nice.
• 32:26
  Oscar Navarro: But other times she'd come home and she'd just have like the greatest day.
• 32:30
  Oscar Navarro: People were so kind and nice, but other times she'd become, she'd come home and she was treated like garbage, like trash, you know, um, and I mean when she would get anxiety.
• 32:34
  Oscar Navarro: She would just, full blown shiver, fall into the fetal position.
• 32:39
  Oscar Navarro: There was just nothing you can do other than just pray and wait for that moment to pass.
• 32:45
  Oscar Navarro: You know, she had just no control over her body.
• 32:47
  Oscar Navarro: And so, speaking of sympathy, and I think those experiences open your eyes to the world around you, it causes you to be less self-aware and more selfless and aware of others.
• 33:03
  Oscar Navarro: Because years ago, after she passed away, I remember I was at a coffee shop and I was running late.
• 33:08
  Oscar Navarro: And dare I be late to work or easy will torture me.
• 33:12
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, I ordered a cup of coffee and I'm waiting for it.
• 33:17
  Oscar Navarro: It's taking longer than it should.
• 33:18
  Oscar Navarro: And I noticed the barista.
• 33:21
  Oscar Navarro: Her hands are shaking and I start to realize, man, this poor girl.
• 33:27
  Oscar Navarro: I don't know her story.
• 33:28
  Oscar Navarro: She may have had one of those mornings where she just couldn't understand how to take another breath, how to get out of her own bed, and yet she had the courage to show up to work this morning.
• 33:40
  Oscar Navarro: And I'm going to be frustrated because my cup of coffee is taking too much two minutes longer.
• 33:45
  Oscar Navarro: What if the Lord gave me that moment with her, to to show her grace, to build rapport, to be kind towards her, to slide her a tract right and instead to think selfishly and just add to her frustration, add to her anxiety.
• 34:03
  Oscar Navarro: And so, instead of being frustrated, I leaned over and I asked her how her day was going and told her I'd like to pray for her.
• 34:12
  Oscar Navarro: And so sympathy also is the Lord, just opening your eyes to the needs of the people around you, and it causes you to stop thinking about yourself and start noticing others.
• 34:29
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, oscar, that story, you've shared it before.
• 34:31
  Emeal Zwayne: It always touches me and it convicts me because it reminds me of how many times I have that mindset.
• 34:37
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, because we're so self-centered, it's my agenda, it's my routine, it's my inconvenience that I want to avoid.
• 34:45
  Emeal Zwayne: And there are precious souls before us, bearing the image of God, that we have the opportunity to impact.
• 34:51
  Emeal Zwayne: And it just takes a shift in our mind and that one moment just, I'm going to do this differently.
• 34:57
  Ray Comfort: The love of God flows from me like a river, until someone cuts me off on a freeway.
• 35:03
  Emeal Zwayne: I know, I know, that happened to me the other day and it just rose up in me.
• 35:08
  Ray Comfort: It was just like I never get too upset, I just shoot a couple of shots above the head.
• 35:14
  Emeal Zwayne: And yeah, I just like the temptation is just to do something.
• 35:18
  Emeal Zwayne: You understand why road rage happens.
• 35:21
  Emeal Zwayne: You know people don't have self-control.
• 35:23
  Mark Spence: My daughter.
• 35:23
  Mark Spence: We had a similar situation driving along and this person was driving crazy and we're going on the side island is that what it's called the shoulder Shoulder Going around us and was just driving crazy and I was like frustrated, you could tell, and my daughter goes I hope everything's okay with that person.
• 35:40
  Mark Spence: Well, that's the other thing.
• 35:41
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm like, oh, yeah, that's what I was thinking too.
• 35:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Everything is okay.
• 35:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, mark, don't you think sometimes we act like crippled people who are pointing the finger and laughing and making?
• 35:54
  Ray Comfort: fun of Is crippled, a correct way to put it nowadays.
• 35:57
  Emeal Zwayne: We're disabled people pointing our finger.
• 36:01
  Emeal Zwayne: He means it like in the 90s.
• 36:01
  Emeal Zwayne: Thanks for ruining my whole analogy, guys.
• 36:03
  Emeal Zwayne: I thought it was fine.
• 36:05
  Emeal Zwayne: This was an emotional moment here, yeah, they're really crippled, they're invalids, they're invalid, but really, though, someone who's disabled pointing at someone else who's disabled and making fun of them and laughing at them, and when you have the exact same thing, I mean in the general sense, man, we're all fallen and broken and sometimes we get frustrated rather than being sympathetic.
• 36:27
  Emeal Zwayne: And I'd love you to speak to Romans 12, 15, rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep.
• 36:34
  Mark Spence: Yeah, I love this.
• 36:36
  Mark Spence: I spoke at an event the other day and I didn't accept the honorarium.
• 36:43
  Mark Spence: I gave the honorarium back and he went on and on about how much they need the honorarium themselves to do the work that they're doing.
• 36:53
  Mark Spence: When I was all done, this lady came up to me and put a stack of hundreds into my hand I don't even know how much it was and I quickly shoved it into the pocket of this missionary who just gave his testimony before I was done speaking, and the way that kind of went down right was such a beautiful moment.
• 37:16
  Mark Spence: It's not me, right.
• 37:18
  Mark Spence: Somebody's going through something.
• 37:20
  Mark Spence: What can I practically do to help them out in this situation?
• 37:26
  Mark Spence: They're weeping.
• 37:27
  Mark Spence: You weep with them, right?
• 37:30
  Mark Spence: They're rejoicing, rejoice.
• 37:31
  Mark Spence: Your time will come, or your time has come.
• 37:33
  Mark Spence: When my wife is going through something, I ask her a question.
• 37:36
  Mark Spence: All the time I'll say do you want compassion or do you want a solution?
• 37:40
  Mark Spence: Because I don't know at this time what you want.
• 37:43
  Mark Spence: I don't want solutions, mark.
• 37:44
  Ray Comfort: They don't.
• 37:45
  Ray Comfort: A lot of times they just don't want solutions.
• 37:47
  Mark Spence: Compassion, they want compassion, they want that bent ear, they want you to just be there, to be that shoulder, and I think that it's not easy.
• 37:59
  Ray Comfort: It's not easy for a man because we're solution people.
• 38:02
  Oscar Navarro: That's right.
• 38:03
  Oscar Navarro: I did the other day the laundry.
• 38:05
  Mark Spence: No, you're good.
• 38:06
  Mark Spence: That leads into the next thing I was going to say.
• 38:08
  Mark Spence: Oh good no, which is just simply don't speak before somebody's done speaking.
• 38:15
  Mark Spence: It is actually my point that I was going to make.
• 38:16
  Mark Spence: Oh, that's funny, and the idea is to listen actively.
• 38:20
  Mark Spence: Right To our shame, we will over-talk someone and we want somebody to stop speaking, because we already know what we want to share.
• 38:27
  Mark Spence: Or we want to share our story that is similar to their story, but it is one up on them, me, me, me, me.
• 38:33
  Mark Spence: We need to slow down because it conveys a message.
• 38:40
  Mark Spence: When you do not overtake them in the conversation, you don't know the direction they're heading.
• 38:47
  Mark Spence: You don't know if they're going to head a whole other direction, if they're still painting a picture within the story.
• 38:53
  Mark Spence: People feel undervalued if their voice is not heard and easy.
• 38:58
  Mark Spence: How many times have I gone to you and I've said he's, I just want to make sure you have all of the facts before you make the decision and then, once you make the decision man, I'm cool man, everything is great.
• 39:12
  Mark Spence: I just want to make sure you have all the facts.
• 39:14
  Mark Spence: You understand this right and you understand what I'm saying.
• 39:16
  Mark Spence: Can you reiterate what I just said?
• 39:18
  Mark Spence: Yep, man, it's, it is well with my soul.
• 39:19
  Mark Spence: Facts, you understand this right and you understand what I'm saying.
• 39:20
  Mark Spence: Can you reiterate what I just said?
• 39:21
  Mark Spence: Yep, man, it is well with my soul, bro.
• 39:22
  Mark Spence: You do whatever you need to do to make the decision.
• 39:24
  Mark Spence: That that's well.
• 39:24
  Mark Spence: But when you start cutting people off, you start you're just like I'm undervalued, you know which makes me underappreciated and you're not going to make the right decision.
• 39:33
  Mark Spence: But man, slow down.
• 39:36
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and then you also miss out on on gaining wisdom too that could be dispensed by that other person, like you're listening to bless them.
• 39:44
  Emeal Zwayne: But there's also that by-product blessing of learning something, whether you're, you know, working with someone who's struggling with something or just going through pain, or someone who's giving you counsel or advice.
• 39:54
  Emeal Zwayne: So, yeah, that's that's hugely important and you know there, hugely important.
• 40:00
  Emeal Zwayne: And there's that element of, I think, oftentimes forgetting that, yeah, we can weep with those who weep right, we think about that and that's kind of like the one we focus on out of that verse.
• 40:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Weep with those who weep yeah, that's hard, I gotta weep.
• 40:15
  Emeal Zwayne: But rejoice with those who rejoice, that sounds like, yeah, that's easy to do.
• 40:18
  Emeal Zwayne: But rejoice with those who rejoice, that sounds like, yeah, that's easy to do.
• 40:20
  Emeal Zwayne: It's not often, because the element of jealousy can enter in and I think in the whole realm of sympathy there's that aspect of fellowship and communion and being bonded, so to push ourselves, even in rejoicing, like to just say, wow, this person just got blessed with all this money or with this promotion or or these gift cards to take away, or with $6,000 worth of gift cards, yeah, we're so happy for you, Ray.
• 40:45
  Mark Spence: Yeah, Ray, Thanks Thomas.
• 40:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah and so, but to be able to will ourselves there and say, no, I'm going to rejoice because that's what love does.
• 40:59
  Emeal Zwayne: We're so focused on us, it's so disgusting and we need to get beyond that.
• 41:05
  Oscar Navarro: It was so helpful to hear you.
• 41:06
  Oscar Navarro: I've heard you say before like our wives need compassion over solution.
• 41:12
  Oscar Navarro: I've been able to apply that the other day.
• 41:14
  Oscar Navarro: The dishes were just to the top and I just looked at Kelly and I go.
• 41:19
  Oscar Navarro: I know you don't want a solution right now, so I'm just going to give you compassion.
• 41:25
  Ray Comfort: So you later do the dishes?
• 41:26
  Emeal Zwayne: What a nice man Oscar, yeah, so, yeah, so you got nothing to say.
• 41:36
  Ray Comfort: I'm so thrown off by.
• 41:38
  Emeal Zwayne: Oscar's wickedness, I can't even move forward.
• 41:40
  Emeal Zwayne: I love this quote here.
• 41:43
  Emeal Zwayne: This is by FB Meyer.
• 41:44
  Emeal Zwayne: He said To know Christ in the storm of battle, to know him in the valley of shadow, to know him when the solar light radiates our faces or when they are darkened with disappointment and sorrow.
• 41:55
  Emeal Zwayne: To know the sweetness of his dealing with bruised reeds and smoking flax, to know the tenderness of his sympathy and the strength of his right hand.
• 42:04
  Emeal Zwayne: All this involves many verities of experience on our part, but each of them like the facets of a diamond or reflect the prismatic beauty of his glory from a new angle.
• 42:14
  Oscar Navarro: That's really good.
• 42:15
  Emeal Zwayne: And you know, going back to what we started with Oscar, you, oscar.
• 42:18
  Emeal Zwayne: It comes back to remembering the sympathy that Christ has toward us.
• 42:22
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, if God is sympathetic with human beings that are so far removed from him, I mean you think of the gap between us and some people whose lives we don't understand.
• 42:33
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, how do you even compare that to infinity?
• 42:36
  Emeal Zwayne: Because that's holy God versus wicked, wretched, depraved sinner.
• 42:40
  Emeal Zwayne: And not only does he sympathize, he became one of us, barring the sinful nature in every way, to sympathize with us and to save us, and then to come alongside us and help us.
• 42:53
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean think of what 1 John says this was written so that you may not sin.
• 42:56
  Emeal Zwayne: These things were written so you may not sin, but if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, jesus Christ the righteous.
• 43:02
  Emeal Zwayne: That word means one who comes alongside to help.
• 43:05
  Ray Comfort: Counsel for our defense.
• 43:06
  Mark Spence: Yeah, mark, you know we talk about the practical steps.
• 43:09
  Mark Spence: I gave one practical step about being an active listener.
• 43:12
  Mark Spence: Here's a couple more practical steps if you want to grow in sympathy towards people.
• 43:16
  Mark Spence: One is to ask thoughtful questions, right, and that is you know.
• 43:21
  Mark Spence: Is there anything that I can practically do to help you during this time?
• 43:23
  Mark Spence: I mean, you can read the room We've talked about in the past about somebody's gone through something.
• 43:28
  Mark Spence: You don't even need to ask them if you could bring them a meal.
• 43:30
  Mark Spence: You just bring them a meal.
• 43:32
  Mark Spence: You're just stepping out to do things, and that is coming from somebody who really has empathized, right, they've been through something, so you're able to do that.
• 43:41
  Mark Spence: Next is just to simply be patient with someone as they're going through something.
• 43:48
  Mark Spence: I saw a TED Talk from a secularist who was suffering the death of her husband, and about five years had gone by or so, and her friends are going up to her and saying what else?
• 44:04
  Mark Spence: What's your problem?
• 44:05
  Mark Spence: You know, I mean just move on already.
• 44:10
  Mark Spence: Oh, and she said I learned a valuable lesson as my friends were saying move on, and it's not move on.
• 44:16
  Mark Spence: We're saying move on, and it's not move on, it's move forward.
• 44:24
  Mark Spence: Right, what are you practically doing to move forward in the midst of your situation?
• 44:27
  Mark Spence: I don't know what you're going through, I can't empathize, but I just want to make sure that you're to Oscar's point you're not being deserted in a corner, you're being alone, but you're in fellowship.
• 44:38
  Mark Spence: You're actively still walking in the work which God has prepared beforehand.
• 44:44
  Mark Spence: How are you moving forward?
• 44:45
  Mark Spence: What is the game plan as you do what you're doing?
• 44:49
  Mark Spence: Very practical steps, right.
• 44:51
  Mark Spence: So listen actively, ask thoughtful questions and be patient with someone as they go through what they're going through.
• 44:55
  Mark Spence: That's great, mark.
• 44:57
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, that's so needed, man, you know, because we, we, we don't pause enough, we don't stop enough to to just say, look, this is real to this person, you know it's real to them and it's something that we may even have gone through but we forget.
• 45:18
  Emeal Zwayne: Time kind of wipes it out of our heart and mind and we need to just stop and say, no, this is really real and I'm going to enter this person's world and come alongside them and help them.
• 45:29
  Emeal Zwayne: And here's the final thing I want to say as we wrap up Understand that there is value in your suffering, beyond just what God may be doing for His glory and what he may be doing in you, for you.
• 45:46
  Emeal Zwayne: Ultimately, everything is for God's glory.
• 45:49
  Emeal Zwayne: But think beyond that to what God wants to do through your suffering for others.
• 45:54
  Emeal Zwayne: We've alluded to it lightly, but this quote by John Fawcett is just so powerful.
• 45:59
  Emeal Zwayne: He said a spirit of sympathy toward our companions in tribulation.
• 46:22
  Emeal Zwayne: They give occasion for the exercise of patience, meekness, submission and resignation.
• 46:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Were it not for the wholesome and necessary discipline of affliction, these excellent virtues would lie dormant.
• 46:31
  Emeal Zwayne: Afflictions serve to convince us more deeply of our own weakness and insufficiency and to endear the person the grace, the promises and the salvation of our Redeemer more insufficiency and to endear the person, the grace, the promises and the salvation of our Redeemer more and more to our hearts.
• 46:45
  Mark Spence: Mark let me give a biblical illustration of what we're talking about here, which is so great.
• 46:51
  Mark Spence: It's an unlikely biblical character.
• 46:52
  Mark Spence: It's not a hero inside of a story, often a villain.
• 46:56
  Mark Spence: We see in Genesis, chapter 16, verses 7 through 13.
• 47:00
  Mark Spence: It's the story of Hagar, the Egyptian servant of Sarah.
• 47:05
  Mark Spence: She flees into the desert to escape the harsh treatment from Sarai.
• 47:10
  Mark Spence: Later to become Sarah, she encounters the angel of the Lord who addresses her by name love.
• 47:19
  Mark Spence: This listens to her in her distress and the angel tells her to return to Sarah and promises her that her descendants will be too numerous to count.
• 47:30
  Mark Spence: And then what does Hagar do?
• 47:30
  Mark Spence: Names the Lord, el Roy, the God who sees me.
• 47:38
  Mark Spence: I don't know what people are going through, I don't know the situation, the circumstances.
• 47:42
  Mark Spence: I know that God has pre-appointed our boundaries and the timing of our habitation so that we yearn for him, so that we groan for him.
• 47:48
  Mark Spence: Right, there's a point and purpose.
• 47:50
  Mark Spence: And maybe you don't have the community and the fellowship that koinonia, that maybe we have or other people have, because of where you live or your situation with your family, but there is a God who sees, right.
• 48:03
  Mark Spence: So what are your options?
• 48:04
  Mark Spence: You have two options here.
• 48:05
  Mark Spence: Where are you going to go, because he alone holds the words to eternal life.
• 48:10
  Mark Spence: It's not an option to go back to Egypt and to give up, to go back to the place of slavery, where you are held captive by the idols and these lowercase g gods.
• 48:23
  Mark Spence: Your option is really singular and that is march forward on your knees, knowing that there's a God who sees, he sees and he knows.
• 48:35
  Mark Spence: Amen.
• 48:36
  Emeal Zwayne: Well put, mark, and a great place to wrap this up.
• 48:40
  Emeal Zwayne: You know we need to yeah, we need to step back.
• 48:44
  Emeal Zwayne: We need to remember our part in the body of Christ, to be those that are conduits through which he works in his sympathy, to minister to other people, by us showing our sympathy because we've received it from him, and the impact of that can be absolutely massive.
• 49:03
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, this is one of those where we end on a sober note.
• 49:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Friends, I can't even remember what the resource was, but check out livingwaterscom.
• 49:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Thanks for joining us.
• 49:13
  Emeal Zwayne: We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast.