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Adaptive Creativity in Product Design: Turning Physical Limitations into Jewelry Innovation with Meesha Farzaneh · The Growth Class with Phil Masiello

• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: Hey everybody, and welcome back to the show.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: And today's guest has a story that proves sometimes our greatest challenges lead to our biggest breakthroughs.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: After undergoing three uh invasive surgeries, is that okay if I say that?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: After undergoing three invasive surgeries and facing a recovery that limited her mobility, she turned her art as a way to heal.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: What started as a therapeutic outlet soon evolved into a world-class jewelry brand.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: Uh today with a lot of lines have been featured on the Oscar's red carpet worn by fashion icons like GTA, featured in major publications.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, she's a self-taught artist, a champion of sustainable fashion, and a founder of her namesick brand, Misha Farzanay.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: Misha, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, what an amazing intro.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Happy to be here.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um Yeah, I why don't you just go through that background?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because I I thought your story was pretty uh, you know, amazing because you sort of had this setback, then you got started, then you went, and then you had another setback, and then you started again.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, as as you mentioned, I did have to undergo three invasive foot surgeries that were very, very painful.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh I was basically stuck in bed um and I was struggling with depression, something that I hadn't really like experienced before, and I wasn't really sure how to navigate it.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so I actually started off with textile art.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I started learning how to weave in bed.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I realized after like seven hours that I had been weaving for seven hours and didn't even look at the time.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that turned into macrame, punch needling.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing all sorts of different uh forms of textile uh curations.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh then I had another issue that kind of came up, which was early stages of carpal tunnel in my wrist.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I at that point I had started selling my pieces and was gaining some traction.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then I wasn't able to produce the pieces uh like I was before because I was dealing with another form of pain in my joints.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's actually when I turned in my craft from textiles to polymer clay, which polymer clay is something you can buy on Amazon at any craft store.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Michael's, you know, heart store carries it, and it can be cured in a conventional oven.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's much easier to work with uh as far as like joints, and it has a wide variety of colors and is very malleable, so you can really do a lot with it.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I was just playing around with the concept of creating earrings because at the time I was working for a plastic surgeon as a consultant, and we had a lot of um patients coming in with earlobe issues.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they wanted to wear big statement earrings, but the earrings were always so heavy that over year, over several years, their earlobes would start to stretch.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so they would need reconstruction.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so it kind of was like, hmm, like why does that have to go hand in hand with wearing something that you want to, you know, express yourself and have fun with?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why does it have to come with this negative side effect?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so polymer clay, when cured, is actually incredibly lightweight.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it looks heavy and it looks big and bold and exciting, but it doesn't really weigh that much.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's when I started making earrings and I was having a lot of fun with the designs.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I ended up making my like hero design, which is the Medusas, and that's the design that has really taken the world by storm and is honestly truly timeless.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Even to this day, I have uh people request different colors that are asking if you know I'm bringing anything back in a different, you know, style in that context.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's um once I started making Medusas, it kind of took a life of its own and organically was showing up on Netflix, Bravo, you know, you name it, like every major people would send me like screenshots, you know, morning shows, red carpet at the Cannes Film Festival, um, Oscar's red carpet.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really honestly insane.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then Gigi Hadid wore another style that I had sent in to her stylist, um, not realizing that it would actually be something she would choose herself to wear.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And she was photographed in it uh with Anna Winter at a Vogue breakfast.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was all super surreal, and it happened in like six months, you know.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it was all like happening really, really fast and just trying to keep up.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like creating art at hope, you know.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was I was never expecting it to really like take on a life of its own like it did.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then funny enough, um the pandemic hit.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and everyone had to do FaceTime and screen time, and everything turned into like screens.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of people wanted to look decorated and feel done up when they were, you know, doing these work calls.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so statement earrings became like a hot commodity and like a desired product.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so my medusas were the perfect accessory for this.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and at the time I had just started advertising.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was totally new to the space.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the cost for advertising was a lot less at the time because they hadn't done the new iOS updates and everything was like, you know, it was a lot easier than it is now.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: And man, it just exploded.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was it when it was just me and my assistant handmaking earrings, my ads team.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: We were fulfilling all the orders, handmaking everything, doing the website, email marketing.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: We were doing everything.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was working like 80 hours a week.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was so exhausted.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and in in a full year of that, we hit close to three quarters of a million in revenue.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so almost 750K, which is wild to even like think about.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and after taxes and expenses, there was a very nice profit.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I uh, you know, I got a little cocky.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it kind of gets to your head when you're a new business owner.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: I had I'd never done anything like this before.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, it's so easy.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I got this, you know, like this is great.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: What's everyone talking about?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like running a business is so simple.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Look, look what I did.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was like, I need more, I need more.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean to build, build, build, scale, scale, scale.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I hired uh a team of artists to work in-house with me.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: I created time studies so that they knew exactly how long it took to make this part and that part, put it together so that we weren't like wasting time or like efficient.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was continuing to create more designs and and variations.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and based off of some advice I wish I wouldn't have listened to, I changed the people I was working with for advertising.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then the iOS update changed, and we had also moved into a brick and mortar location where I had a bigger studio.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: We were doing all the fulfillment out of there as well.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I had, you know, brought on all these new expenses and overhead expenses and things I didn't have before when I was running a lot more lean.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the cost of advertising like doubled, if not more.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I put my trust and faith too much into the hands of people that weren't really monitoring my numbers accurately.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I I was a little disconnected from a lot of the different, you know, areas I should have been more hands-on with.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um fast forward a couple years, uh, let's say we did not make a profit and we were actually down like 100K, um, which was quite a wake-up call for me.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh wait, it's actually not that simple.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I need to stop the bleeding like as soon as possible.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I made the decision to liquidate all the pieces because at that point I was also manufacturing um in high quantities as well from some other designs and things like that.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so liquidated everything, sold as much as I could.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: I had to let go of my teens, stop advertising, stopped all the subscriptions to like clavio, like ridiculous like subscriptions that were like draining me.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't like, you know, seeing much result from them.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so at the time I was also leaving a 10-year relationship, and so everything was kind of like crashing down at the same time, and I was kind of stuck in a state of fight or flight.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and the idea of even just like being creative was just impossible.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was paralyzed essentially.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like stuck in a place where I was like, do I like completely shut down the business?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or like what do I do?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I've worked so hard to to create this baby of mine, and I really spent so much energy nurturing my community, which was a big part of my success.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even to this day, my community has been super supportive, even after I was basically MIA for almost two years.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it wasn't until last quarter that I was able to feel stable and like ready to start things back up again.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had started working in other areas where I knew I had skills, skill sets that I could use to like start creating like more uh financial security for myself.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they're not like passions of mine, like the jewelry was.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and now that I'm more stable, um, you know, I'm looking at it in a different way instead of just like trying to pump it up and scale it and just go as big and bad as possible.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, wait, but the the whole point of this was the joy that came behind the jewelry and the curation and the creation design.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's what I loved about this.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then it became such a small part of the puzzle when everything was, everyone's like, you need to do this, you need to do that, you need, you know.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so, you know, I'm looking at it uh in a way where like I'm going to like ease back into this in a way that feels right for me.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually we'll be able to like minimize a lot of the small jobs that I'm doing and just like be able to like redistribute my energy more evenly.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the the infrastructure is there, like the foundation is there, the community is there, uh, the vendors are there that I build relationships with.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so if I want to scale again, I can, but this time with much more uh wisdom and experience.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, it's funny.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: I have a friend who uh she built a huge floral uh online floral business.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um she saw a gap in the market with people who wanted to build their own floral arrangements but didn't know how.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: So she sort of blended, you know, floral with uh um like the meal prep sites.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: So she can buy you know 20 arrangements, have them shipped to wherever you want to.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: They come with instructions on how you can put it all together and make it nice.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, it's a huge business.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: It turned into a major business.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I said to her, I said, uh, you know, was floral your passion?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: Was that something you were she said no.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: She said if ceramics is my passion.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: She said, I love doing that.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: But if I had to do that for a business, then it I would wind up being miserable because it would no longer be my passion.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because now and and another friend of mine was talking about he has a uh pet business that he's expanding, pet stores.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, he said, you know, they do online, they do uh in-store grooming and things like that.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, it must be difficult to get the groomers.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: He said, not really.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: He said, groomers, they just want to groom dogs.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's what they love.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: He said, they all try to go into business for themselves, and then they find out that they have to be the marketing, they have to be the accountant, they have to be the the salespeople, they have to deal with customer service, they have to do all these things when all they really want to do is groom dogs.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: And they, you know, they don't want to do all those things.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: So and I I do know a jewelry designer producer in New York, she just has one store, and everybody's always coming to her saying, Oh, we could we could sell your products here, we could do this, we could do that.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, I take special orders from people, I do custom jewelry, I love what I do, I've been doing it for 20 years.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to open two stores, three stores, four stores.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: I don't.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: She said, and I I I love my business and I love what I do, and I I love it for the art of it.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: So there's nothing wrong with that.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, nobody not every business is set up to scale, and not every, you know, uh uh entrepreneur.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I know plenty of people that have lifestyle businesses that are that they're very happy doing and they can do from anywhere around the world.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: I feel that.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that aligns with how I feel, absolutely.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I uh I've done a bunch of businesses, but none of them were like my passion.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: If I were gonna do a business around my passion, I'd have to have some sort of a dog kennel with, you know, 50 dogs or something because uh I don't know.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, my wife keeps saying that when I retire, I'm just gonna be a dog walker and walk everybody's houses.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, you know, I won't even charge it, I'll be a nonprofit because I'll be I won't even charge people.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: I just like to be around dogs.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: I know I can see myself doing the same too, honestly.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: So uh it's uh it's funny.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I mean look, yeah, you know, the fact that you uh the you know learned from it, survived it, and now you're gonna go in a different direction, that's that's just perfectly great.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so your website's still up, so can you know, do you take orders?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the way I'm I'm running things right now is small batch releases.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I am handmaking still when I have the time uh and the inspiration.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I take uh my community kind of like with me through the process.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I love including them uh when I'm kind of like, okay, well, like which color do you guys like better?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like this longer or shorter?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I really like involve them through that creation process.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then even like they help me name the pieces, and so um, everyone's like very like tuned in to when I am dropping something new.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then when it is time, it's very, very limited um selection of pieces each time.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I send an email.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: So anyone that's subscribed to my email list gets the first notification.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then a day later, if there's anything left, I will announce it on my social media.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not running advertising right now.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I and I still have some uh my hero product, the Medusas, uh, in stock because I found a vendor that I trust that was able to reproduce that specific design exactly the way I would hand make it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been such a loved piece that it's only fair to have that available on the website most of the time.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, only in select colors at a time.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um I am just uh as of recent started working with fine jewelry, which has always been a dream of mine to tap into.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think imposter syndrome kind of like uh took that away from me for a while because I became this like queen of like costume jewelry.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Part of me was like, oh, I'm not good enough to like tap into fine jewelry.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like people like people won't trust me to like create something of value of that, you know.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I've uh as of like um this spring or you know, late, late winter, early spring, I I designed and um released one, it's not listed on the website yet.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's made to order uh through DM right now, but I am gonna put it on the website soon.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: It takes about four or five weeks because it's not something I want to like mass produce.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's new.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm rolling it out slowly with intention and like, you know, doing it very like uh mindfully this time.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I would love to continue that and uh start offering a wider variety of fine jewelry too.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: Advertising is tough, man.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if that's your only um sort of if that's your only customer acquisition channel, we talk people out of advertising all the time because there's so many other ways.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's expensive and you know it's so you you get to this point, right?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: Where um when you start out something right, you you you can build a community and you can do things online and you can do things on social to sort of, you know, and you could do things with user-generated content and i micro influencers and in your case macro influencers, and you can, you know, use that to your advantage to build.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then you get into this world where you start advertising and everything changes because you know, you were acquiring customers at a very efficient rate, and now you start advertising and your cost of acquisition, like everybody focuses on return on ad spend, but the real issue isn't return on ad spend, it's a cost of acquisition versus your long-term value.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: And and that's the piece that people miss.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's like so there's a a shaving company out there called Harry's Razors, and every year they do this five dollar box.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's got a handle, two cartridges, and a little thing of shave cream.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: And they sell it for five dollars.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure that it costs more than five dollars.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then I know that the shipping cost on that box is probably six bucks.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, they're probably in there for fifteen dollars all said and done.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: And everybody says, How you know, how can they do that?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: They're losing money, they're losing money, they're losing money.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they're not really losing money because you can't turn down that deal.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: The deal is so good that if a guy sees it, it's five dollars.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: You go, Right.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, what's the risk?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: I get two cartridges.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if I buy a uh a Gillette razor, five blade razor, one cartridge is five bucks.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm getting, you know, so you can't turn down the deal.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: So they have a huge amount of people buying it.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: So they're acquiring customers for$12 to$15 in an area where the cost of acquisition for customer is like$30 to$60.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: And that's true.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: So they're they're acquiring customers cheaper, but on top of that, they know that people that take advantage of that box, when they get to the website, they're they're buying more than just that.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: So their average cost on that, their average uh order on that is probably in the$70 range.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then they know that their long-term value is like over$200.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: So really, that's how you have to sort of start looking at things.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: When you look at just your advertising and your return on ad spend, it never gives you the accurate picture because return on ad spend is just too short a time period.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: You have to look at your cost of acquisition versus your long-term value.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the only way to survive in that in that world.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: And invest time and energy into your community and and build that.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's you know, yeah, no doubt.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you should always I always I I always tell uh artistic entrepreneurs that you should never go it alone.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: You should always have somebody on your side at your side who uh can manage the business part and just let you do what you do and worry about the business.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: And always have somebody who's like a partner because you know you can't you can't do both.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: You just it's almost impossible to do both.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: You'll just be miserable.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: You won't be happy.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: And if you have somebody who is who enjoys doing the other parts and is not creative, you make a good team and that's how you build it.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: So honestly, I've had that thought many times.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think like moving forward, if I ever decided I wanted to like build um the business up again at a somewhat of a larger scale, that would be the first thing that I would look into putting into place.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: You never know.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you might uh wind up with an opportunity to go into retail, and you wind up putting your product in retail, and then it I mean, there's a million.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Ways to build a business slowly.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to do everything fast.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: So so where can people find your products?com is my website.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or they can check me out on Instagram at Misha Farzanay, which is my name.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a long Persian name, but it it's just spelled out the way that it is on my website.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, those are the main two spots that I'm if it's sold out, it's you know, they can they can just keep going back and trying and finding and trying and looking and trying.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: Or if they follow you on Instagram, I guess you'll make announcements.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: I always make announcements first.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: And when I'm looking into carrying new products, I always show previews and ask, do you guys like this?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on this?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And bringing this in soon and kind of like gauge like what's the vibe?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Are people into it?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Are they not?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and then yeah, that's it's part of how I've always operated.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that process has built the community and the loyalty that I have today.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason why I was able to shut things down for two years and and come back and be welcomed with so much warmth and enthusiasm.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I would love to invite anyone that's interested to come join the community, come join the family.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: Is uh so is uh Instagram your primary channel, or is TikTok also?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: I really haven't done much on TikTok.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Instagram, I I have I feel more comfortable on Instagram.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm on the platform more because I also do beauty and wellness on another account, and so it's easier for me to manage on on Instagram.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that works.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, uh I know a lot of people that just focus on TikTok, I think, is a little bit different in that you really have to be dedicated to TikTok and focus on building that TikTok audience and building videos in a specific way.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: And uh you know TikTok doesn't always work that way.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a different animal for sure.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: We're we're we're just about out of time.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: And um uh but I enjoyed having you.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: I enjoyed hearing your story.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's a great, great story.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for having me.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is the first podcast interview I had in in quite a while.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it feels really good.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Feels really good to be back.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: Good luck, good luck with uh with with where you're going.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: And uh again, you know, the resilience of knowing when to step back and and and restart again is a is a is a good it's a good skill to have.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Something I'm I'm still learning and always growing, so it's a never-ending student.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody is.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: I had that conversation.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: I did a uh I did a speech last night at University of uh Maryland in entrepreneurship, and it was about scaling.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, I said to somebody, we were they they asked the qu somebody in the audience asked the question.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: They said, you know, what's the biggest mistake that you made in business and how much do you think it cost you?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I I said, I um I continue to make mistakes, but I the first mistake I made was, you know, I started this business when I was 27 and it was a disaster.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, I I don't even want to put a number on how much it cost me, but it cost tremendous amounts of money.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: I said, but it more than that, it cost me a lot of pride, a lot of ego, a lot of dignity.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then uh I said, you know, I I said, I've started 10 businesses in my life, and only four have been successful.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: I said, so I look at it though against a baseball player, a great hitter, only bats at 300.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm at 400.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I figure There you go.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love that perspective, definitely.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: So true.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, so true.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, look, you know, we all make mistakes and we all learn from them.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I just keep sometimes I make the same mistake twice, which is not a good thing.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I think once you make the the big mistakes, then you you've kind of gone through it, the rite of passage, but then it's not so bad.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're just like, oh, okay, another mistake.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: What's next?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: How do I pivot?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how do I course correct?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Learning how to adapt and course correct will be the most valuable thing that you can, you know, live by when you are running your own business.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I appreciate you coming on.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate you telling your story, and uh, we will see everybody next time.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Bye bye.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Nice to meet you.