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Cold Case: Who killed Allison Foy? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: families and the off her climb stories with Nancy Grace
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Speaker 1: on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. Alison Jackson
1:11
Speaker 1: Floyd disappeared on Sunday, July two thousand six. It's another hot,
1:16
Speaker 1: humid summer in Wilmington, North Carolina. All signs led to
1:19
Speaker 1: the likelihood that she had left the area on her
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Speaker 1: own quarter. In April two thousand and eight, a human
1:24
Speaker 1: skull was found in a wooden area three miles from
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Speaker 1: where she was last seen, but Allison wasn't alone. It
1:30
Speaker 1: was soon discovered that there were actually two. Her case
1:33
Speaker 1: is still an unsolved thomas I process of elimination have
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Speaker 1: eliminated all but one potential suspect, a Port City cab
1:41
Speaker 1: driver who was in the bar Allison disappeared from. The
1:44
Speaker 1: case is just kind of in a stalemate. Investigations are
1:47
Speaker 1: ongoing and there is no statute of limitations for Martin.
1:50
Speaker 1: There is hope that the case will be sold. I'm
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Speaker 1: just really fearful that we're not going to get justice
1:55
Speaker 1: for my sister. You know, I've talked to so many
1:58
Speaker 1: crime victims and we all seem to agree on one thing,
2:03
Speaker 1: and it's largely anecdotal. I don't have a statistic to
2:06
Speaker 1: prove it. There's never been a scientific study. But everyone,
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Speaker 1: every crime victim I have ever spoken to, they know
2:16
Speaker 1: when they get that call. They know immediately. I knew
2:22
Speaker 1: when I was told to call my fiance's family and
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Speaker 1: they picked up the phone, I said the words is
2:31
Speaker 1: Keith Gone. I knew, I knew, and I don't know
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Speaker 1: how I knew. In this case, a sister gets a
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Speaker 1: phone call from dad saying there's a problem. Allison's gone.
2:47
Speaker 1: Did she know? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us and with me. That
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Speaker 1: sister Lisa Valentino, and we are talking about the disappearance
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Speaker 1: of her beautiful sister, Alison. Lisa, thank you for being
3:07
Speaker 1: with me. Do you remember when your dad called you?
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's absolutely I I was on a family
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Speaker 1: vacation with my brother, other brother, my brother and my
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Speaker 1: other sister traveling back from New Hampshire with our children,
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Speaker 1: and my dad called us and said, you know, there's
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Speaker 1: a problem, just like you said Alison, and this, and
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Speaker 1: and immediately I knew that she was no longer living.
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Speaker 1: That was the feeling that I had within my heart,
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Speaker 1: within my gut um. But needless to say, you know,
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Speaker 1: we we got our stuff together. We three of us
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Speaker 1: trapped off our families, hopped on a plane and immediately
3:42
Speaker 1: flew to Willington with my dad. During that flight, I mean,
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Speaker 1: I know, you had to drop your children off, you
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Speaker 1: had to pack a bag, you had to get it
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Speaker 1: together and get gone. How many of us have been
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Speaker 1: in that situation, and I've in those moments. I remember
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Speaker 1: I had flown to New York to take the children
3:59
Speaker 1: ice eating a Rockefeller Center and we just got there
4:03
Speaker 1: and I got them all bathed and in their pj's,
4:06
Speaker 1: and my mom called and said, they just put your
4:09
Speaker 1: dad on life support. And when I was trying to
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Speaker 1: repack everybody, and I remember hearing somebody screaming, get dress,
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Speaker 1: get dressed, or leak, we have to go. It was
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Speaker 1: me when I look back on it, but at the
4:24
Speaker 1: time it sounded like somebody else. And threw everything back
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Speaker 1: in the bags, and within twenty minutes we were all
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Speaker 1: dressed and assembled out on the sidewalk trying to held
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Speaker 1: a cab in the middle of the night. And it's
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Speaker 1: almost like a blur. Do you remember running in and
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Speaker 1: trying to get everything together, to get the children straight
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Speaker 1: and get your clothes and get out of there. You know,
4:49
Speaker 1: For for us, it was a little bit chipper. And
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Speaker 1: it's funny that you said that though, because he's eleven
4:53
Speaker 1: years seems like another lifetime ago. But I do remember
4:56
Speaker 1: like it was yesterday, you know, being in the car,
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Speaker 1: being the phone call, still being hours away from our destination,
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Speaker 1: and all of us being except the cars, trying to
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Speaker 1: contact one another, you know. And actually we didn't even
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Speaker 1: go home. We went to my brother's house and he's
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Speaker 1: his wife kept all of our children along with my husband,
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Speaker 1: and uh we hopped on a plane to Philadelphia early
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Speaker 1: the next morning. I mean, so I can remember all
5:24
Speaker 1: of that and thinking at the same time I knew
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Speaker 1: something not good. I really did believe she wasn't alive,
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Speaker 1: But then, well, how do I know that for sure?
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Speaker 1: Same here, Same here? I mean, I knew, I knew
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Speaker 1: Keith was dead, but I didn't think about it. I
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Speaker 1: just got trying to get to him and with Daddy,
5:40
Speaker 1: with my dad, I just kept thinking, Okay, don't be crazy,
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Speaker 1: he's been sick before. It's gonna work out. And Cheryl McCallum,
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Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Institute, and my longtime friend, Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: thank you for the my mentor for my dad you
5:56
Speaker 1: sent me. You know, as to me, it's like he's
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Speaker 1: still here. And I wonder to you, Lisa Valentino, when
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Speaker 1: you were on that flight and you were trying to
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Speaker 1: get to your dad when you first saw him, what
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Speaker 1: did he say? To explain to me how you got
6:16
Speaker 1: off the plane and you saw him and what he said.
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Speaker 1: You know, that part is a little is a little foggy.
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Speaker 1: I just can see him and we just left my dad.
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Speaker 1: It'll be two years in October, um, but I could
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Speaker 1: just see him shaking his heads like you often did
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Speaker 1: and just saying, I just can't believe it. It's also unbelievable.
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Speaker 1: I don't I don't understand, you know. And you know
6:38
Speaker 1: what's weird, Lisa, it seems like like I have my sister.
6:41
Speaker 1: She is a brainiac. You know, she graduated at Wharton.
6:46
Speaker 1: They asked her to staying at her pH d. She
6:49
Speaker 1: became one of the first women in her department to
6:51
Speaker 1: be on tenure track. You know. My brother was like
6:55
Speaker 1: the number one salesperson in the whole country. A couple
6:58
Speaker 1: of years in a row with his pharmaceutical company. It's
7:03
Speaker 1: funny how people can do all sorts of stellar things,
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Speaker 1: like my mom was this is this fantastic musician, and
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Speaker 1: my dad worked at the railroad all these years, but
7:14
Speaker 1: you seem to end up being defined by, oh, that's
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Speaker 1: Allison's family. You remember what happened, that's that's that's who
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Speaker 1: you are now. And I've talked about that with so
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Speaker 1: many crimes. Is somehow that is what you and your
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Speaker 1: family are. What happened? Then you hit the ground, and
7:33
Speaker 1: then what do you guys start doing? We hit the ground.
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Speaker 1: And actually at the time that the current investigator who
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Speaker 1: was on the case met us at the airport to
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Speaker 1: this at the airport, drove us to uh the police department,
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Speaker 1: and then proceeded to bring it into his office and
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Speaker 1: sit and have a conversation with the four of us,
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Speaker 1: um about what happened. Tell me what happened? How did
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Speaker 1: Alison missing? Well that kind of so this was this
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Speaker 1: is what happened. She um and my sister Listen was
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Speaker 1: not without her issues and problems, but you know, at
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Speaker 1: her heart, she was a very she was a very
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Speaker 1: good person and most importantly, she was a mother of
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Speaker 1: two young children at the time who were who were
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Speaker 1: her life. Um, and so they said to us, we
8:20
Speaker 1: received the phone call from her husband that she hasn't
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Speaker 1: come home, um and that uh, you know, he doesn't
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Speaker 1: know where where she is. And um, the last place
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Speaker 1: we know she was seeing was at a place called
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Speaker 1: Junction Pub and Billiards after she finished a shift at work.
8:40
Speaker 1: Allison had just gotten a knee job. She was assistant
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Speaker 1: manager of a holiday inn here in town, and she
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Speaker 1: supposedly had gone out to um celebrate after work with
8:51
Speaker 1: a friend of hers. Um. They found her car at
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Speaker 1: the establishments. Uh. I think a couple of days later
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Speaker 1: her exactly where it was. You know what's interesting another thing, Lisa,
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Speaker 1: hold on and I want to bring Erylyn on this
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Speaker 1: one before I lose this thought, because every sentence you're
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Speaker 1: saying gives me another whole series of investigatory thoughts. You know,
9:14
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, director of the Cold Case Institute. When people
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Speaker 1: it's and you know what, I guess, it's just abbot.
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Speaker 1: When people here she was at a pub, they think, uh,
9:25
Speaker 1: you know, she was a party girl, she was drunk,
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Speaker 1: she was doing drugs, she probably ran a car off
9:30
Speaker 1: the road. They'll find it. It's this woman. And I
9:34
Speaker 1: always feel like I'm in the position of defending the victim,
9:38
Speaker 1: um and and and it goes across the board. I
9:40
Speaker 1: remember talking to Chucky Mark's mom. He was shot riding
9:43
Speaker 1: his bicycle to the seven eleven, and she's always had
9:46
Speaker 1: she feels she always has to say he was a
9:48
Speaker 1: good boy. He was not doing anything wrong. He was
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Speaker 1: like twelve. Of course he wasn't doing anything wrong. In
9:54
Speaker 1: this case, Alison worked. She was working there at a
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Speaker 1: brand new job at the Junction Pub and billiards, and
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Speaker 1: that is why she was there. Cheryl not as if
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Speaker 1: she needs to be defended, but it doesn't matter. But
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Speaker 1: I just want that clear on the record, because for
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Speaker 1: some reason, some people seem to discount lives. Their life
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Speaker 1: is no less or more valuable than anybody else's. It
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Speaker 1: does not negate what happened to her. Have you noticed that,
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Speaker 1: Cheryl Nancy, People spend so much time investigating the victim,
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Speaker 1: not the crme. Alison leaves the holiday in where she's
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Speaker 1: an assistant manager, and she's celebrating this new job with
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Speaker 1: friends at the Junction Pub not far down the road,
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Speaker 1: and yeah, the police are gonna be like, oh, well,
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Speaker 1: she didn't make it home. She's probably having an affair.
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Speaker 1: They discount the obvious her car still at the pub.
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Speaker 1: She's never not come home before. Her children need everything
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Speaker 1: to her. So instead of putting everybody on this and
11:00
Speaker 1: trying to find this young woman, they're pretty lacks a
11:03
Speaker 1: days ago about it. So what did you learn? You know, Lisa,
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Speaker 1: that she weren't that night till the end of her shift.
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Speaker 1: You know that she left when the pub was closing down. Correct,
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Speaker 1: Then what happened she steps out the door into the night. Well,
11:20
Speaker 1: and this is where happens. This is where things get
11:22
Speaker 1: a little a little blurry, because there have been a
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Speaker 1: couple of different theories. One is and this is the one.
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Speaker 1: We really believe that the friends that she was with,
11:31
Speaker 1: who was exactly that just a type of compot onto
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Speaker 1: she would, you know, speak too often about different things
11:37
Speaker 1: going on our life, said to her, I don't want
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Speaker 1: you to drives home. Let's let's call you a cat.
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Speaker 1: And he says that they he motioned for the bartender.
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Speaker 1: The bartender came over. He said, let's get Alison a cat.
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Speaker 1: She went made a phone call and a few moments
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Speaker 1: later and this is how he describes some in walks
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Speaker 1: this big country. How he guy says, does anybody did
12:02
Speaker 1: anybody call a cab? Which is unusual enough to begin
12:05
Speaker 1: with Northody, they don't walk into the bar. And he said, yeah,
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Speaker 1: we did, and Allison said good night and walked out
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Speaker 1: with this cab driver. Um, that's really what we believe,
12:16
Speaker 1: what everybody believes. Some other people of said, oh they
12:19
Speaker 1: saw her outside crying on the curb. Um, you know,
12:23
Speaker 1: she was talking to some other girls. But we followed
12:25
Speaker 1: up all those those leaves, and this really seems to
12:28
Speaker 1: be the one um that is that is truthful. I mean,
12:33
Speaker 1: first of all, he was away. That's something you've got
12:35
Speaker 1: to look for, Cheryl, when you have especially and this
12:38
Speaker 1: is rare in cases like this that you have a
12:41
Speaker 1: lot last sighting corroborated where somebody walk and that really
12:46
Speaker 1: stuck out in their minds. The guy wants and to
12:48
Speaker 1: say says, hey, did anybody call a cab? That would
12:50
Speaker 1: stick out in my mind because I've never had a
12:52
Speaker 1: cab driver come in and say, hey, did anybody call
12:55
Speaker 1: a cab? Oh? No, I'm out in the street begging
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Speaker 1: for a cab right, and that's corrobred by several people,
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Speaker 1: cheryls So I believe because of that, that is what happened.
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Speaker 1: Your focus at that moment should be on that cab
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Speaker 1: driver period. I'm talking about a beautiful young a married
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Speaker 1: mother of two little daughters, an accomplished dancer, a gymnast,
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Speaker 1: the only member of a very very tightly knit family
13:23
Speaker 1: to have moved out of their hometown area and to
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Speaker 1: North Carolina. That day she had called and she had
13:32
Speaker 1: taught to her sister, Lisa Valentino, and then it wasn't
13:38
Speaker 1: much longer that she got a call from her dad
13:42
Speaker 1: to tell Lisa Allison was missing. So trying to reconstruct
13:47
Speaker 1: the night that Alison Foy goes missing, that's where we
13:52
Speaker 1: are now in our attempt to put it all back
13:56
Speaker 1: together again with the hopes of solving this. I want
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Speaker 1: to go back to Cheryl McCollum, director of the Coal
14:02
Speaker 1: Case Institute. All Right, so we've led up to the
14:05
Speaker 1: moment that we learn Alison, this young mom of two
14:09
Speaker 1: little girls, has disappeared. We know where she disappeared. What
14:14
Speaker 1: more do we know at the outset, Cheryl, what else
14:17
Speaker 1: do we know about her disappeared? Right now. That's all
14:19
Speaker 1: they know. Did the bartender call it for a cab?
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Speaker 1: Cab driver comes in, Alison walks out, that's it gone
14:27
Speaker 1: in the night. Okay, where do we go from here?
14:30
Speaker 1: That's the next question joining me is Alison's sister. Thank
14:34
Speaker 1: you so much for being with us, Lisa, what happens next?
14:38
Speaker 1: So you're sitting there in the police officers office, he's
14:40
Speaker 1: telling you she's missing. Then what do you do? Well?
14:44
Speaker 1: I I have to be brutally honest. At the beginning
14:48
Speaker 1: of this case and it's since changed, law enforcement was
14:53
Speaker 1: not as great as it has been in the past
14:55
Speaker 1: few years. With a few detective changes. They basically told us, um, oh,
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Speaker 1: she'll turn up, and UM, you know, why don't you
15:03
Speaker 1: just get a hotel room and you know, we'll let
15:06
Speaker 1: you know if if if maybything comes up. Make some flyers.
15:10
Speaker 1: So here we are, four of us. Has never been
15:13
Speaker 1: to Wilmington, North Carolina before, never been in a situation
15:17
Speaker 1: like this before, left on our own. So what happens?
15:20
Speaker 1: We make flyers. Were out in the baddest areas of
15:22
Speaker 1: the town late at night, uh, searching for for my sister,
15:28
Speaker 1: um until until a desk clerk at a hotel room,
15:33
Speaker 1: gives us a name and a number of someone in
15:35
Speaker 1: town who she can help us. And that's the key
15:39
Speaker 1: center for missing persons and Monica Kinson. And then once
15:43
Speaker 1: they got involved, things started to move within law enforcements
15:47
Speaker 1: and um people started taking things a little bit more,
15:51
Speaker 1: uh seriously, although I can't tell you until she was recovered,
15:54
Speaker 1: how many times I have law enforcements say to me, Oh,
15:56
Speaker 1: she's out there, she'll turn up. She was spotted here,
15:59
Speaker 1: she spotted there. Um. Before we left town, we hired
16:03
Speaker 1: a private investigator who continued to work on the case.
16:06
Speaker 1: And actually it was through him and his radio show
16:09
Speaker 1: locally that um the suspect um there there became a
16:14
Speaker 1: suspect in the case. Let me talk to you about
16:17
Speaker 1: them saying, she'll turn up, she's been signed. Where where
16:21
Speaker 1: were the signings? Carolina Beach on a bicycle at a
16:26
Speaker 1: hotel room in Carolina Beach, downtown Wilmington's at two am
16:30
Speaker 1: in the morning. I can remember. We went to Wilmington
16:34
Speaker 1: as all the bars uh let out at two am
16:37
Speaker 1: at last call in downtown on the riverfront, handing our
16:40
Speaker 1: flyers looking for my sister. Because again that was another
16:44
Speaker 1: place that she had been seen, so it was all
16:46
Speaker 1: different types of place. What do you make of those signings,
16:49
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, Um, I remember in so many cases that
16:54
Speaker 1: there are signings, and sometimes they're even photos. I remember
16:57
Speaker 1: when we were looking for one us. She was such
16:59
Speaker 1: the cutest little girl role and there was a signing
17:01
Speaker 1: at and you know, a play area within a mall,
17:04
Speaker 1: in one of those ball pits, and you know what
17:07
Speaker 1: I'm talking about those ball pits. My children would just
17:10
Speaker 1: dive into them and all I could see was a
17:11
Speaker 1: bunch of journeys. But um, then I'd have to dive
17:15
Speaker 1: in after them and drag him out. Anyway, the little
17:18
Speaker 1: girl they thought was in a ball pit, and the
17:21
Speaker 1: person actually took the girl's picture and sent it in.
17:23
Speaker 1: I remember putting it on the show because it looked
17:26
Speaker 1: so much like the missing girl. It was not her,
17:31
Speaker 1: and the girl's parents called in the police didn't checked
17:33
Speaker 1: it out, and it looked so much like her, it
17:37
Speaker 1: was not her, and that happened. I think that happened
17:42
Speaker 1: in the Kelly Anthony case. I mean, it goes on
17:44
Speaker 1: and on and on. People, good hearted people truly believe
17:47
Speaker 1: they see the person. So what do you make of
17:50
Speaker 1: these sighting Cheryl. Again, common sense needs to play a
17:53
Speaker 1: role here. Nancy Alison had no money, she had not
17:57
Speaker 1: used a credit card, she had not showed up anywhere
18:00
Speaker 1: and like at a hospital for help or contacted her
18:03
Speaker 1: husband or her family. So her being on a bicycle
18:07
Speaker 1: makes no sense. She's not just riding around on a bicycle,
18:11
Speaker 1: not contacted anybody. Um and the police, instead of listening
18:16
Speaker 1: to her siblings and her father are saying and she'll
18:20
Speaker 1: just show up. She's just taking a few days off
18:22
Speaker 1: from being a parent. That's insane. That was not her
18:25
Speaker 1: m O. They didn't listen. You know what, if anybody
18:29
Speaker 1: tells you I'm taking a day off of me and
18:30
Speaker 1: a parent, you need to start the search absolutely that
18:34
Speaker 1: minute that no plet, I'll start running up down the
18:38
Speaker 1: streets calling my name. Okay, So how did you take that,
18:42
Speaker 1: Lisa Valentino. For them to say, oh, she's just taking
18:45
Speaker 1: a break, did that make sense to you? No? And
18:49
Speaker 1: I and I absolutely told them that. I said to them,
18:53
Speaker 1: I know my sister and if she was leaving town
18:57
Speaker 1: or going to hang out somewhere or wherever, once she
19:00
Speaker 1: you know, she would have taken her children with her
19:03
Speaker 1: and to be missing this long now, she would have
19:05
Speaker 1: called one of us and said, I'm okay, this is
19:08
Speaker 1: where I am. You know, don't worry about me, because
19:12
Speaker 1: she was constantly in contact with us, and it just
19:16
Speaker 1: you know it really it's very upsetting because you know,
19:19
Speaker 1: over these years, that's one of the things I've discovered
19:22
Speaker 1: to law enforcement needs to listen to the people who
19:25
Speaker 1: know um them, that's and that's the family, and we
19:29
Speaker 1: told them over and over again. So it's very frustrated
19:33
Speaker 1: because it made you feel like they're not looking. What
19:36
Speaker 1: did you and your family do to try and find Allison.
19:41
Speaker 1: We hit the street, We we hang up flyers, We
19:45
Speaker 1: connect with the Missing Person organization QUE. We were here
19:49
Speaker 1: for ten days on the ground, enrollmented, we do news interviews,
19:53
Speaker 1: um and anything we can just to get the word out,
19:57
Speaker 1: and we try to convince law enforcement you know that
20:00
Speaker 1: this is this is an issue. It's not going away.
20:04
Speaker 1: And again we hire a private investigator before we leave,
20:08
Speaker 1: because we were confident that law enforcement was doing the
20:12
Speaker 1: right thing. Cheryl, can you imagine being there at the
20:16
Speaker 1: Kinko's or whatever it was at the time, trying to
20:19
Speaker 1: print off flyers, trying to make your own flyers um it,
20:24
Speaker 1: just standing there wondering what happened to her as the
20:28
Speaker 1: Xerox machine goes and you don't. I've often thought of that,
20:33
Speaker 1: what do you do? And I've told this story million times.
20:36
Speaker 1: Go ahead and try to stop me. I remember standing
20:38
Speaker 1: in Babies or Us. It's like a huge baby superstore,
20:41
Speaker 1: looking because some mom at the at the pool had
20:45
Speaker 1: put me on a guilt trip. She said she made
20:47
Speaker 1: her own organic sunscreen. And I'm like, oh, I'm a
20:53
Speaker 1: piece of crap. Okay, So I go and try to
20:56
Speaker 1: find sunscreen that doesn't have chemicals in it. Right. So
21:03
Speaker 1: I'm standing there and John David and Lucy have just
21:06
Speaker 1: they're walking fairly well, they're little, they're just above my knees,
21:10
Speaker 1: and they're right behind me. And of course what I'm
21:13
Speaker 1: looking for is on the very bottom row, okay. So
21:17
Speaker 1: I'm all down on there trying to dig around and
21:21
Speaker 1: then I can't find anything like that, and I stand
21:24
Speaker 1: up and I go, okay, come on, and Lucy takes
21:26
Speaker 1: my hand and so John David and I turned around.
21:29
Speaker 1: He was gone that fast, and that feeling that went
21:35
Speaker 1: over me, I've never forgotten it. And you know what
21:40
Speaker 1: I did I screened bloody murder. Somebody tuk my baby.
21:46
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, as an ex cheerleader, I let
21:48
Speaker 1: it grip and honey, they locked those doors and all
21:52
Speaker 1: h E double l broke loose. Of course you know
21:54
Speaker 1: where he was running like a wild animal, up and
21:58
Speaker 1: down an aisle like three. I'le us over with some
22:01
Speaker 1: something in his hand. I don't even know what something
22:04
Speaker 1: he had grabbed off account. But that moment when you
22:07
Speaker 1: don't know what to do. Can you even imagine if
22:12
Speaker 1: one of your two went missing? What what do you?
22:14
Speaker 1: Would be insane? It needs to Here's the thing. You've
22:17
Speaker 1: got a family that's hitting the streets in these bad areas.
22:21
Speaker 1: There's this underbelly to crom and. Law enforcement is also
22:25
Speaker 1: very bad about not going to the source. Well, you know,
22:30
Speaker 1: in the day, you and I would have gone in
22:31
Speaker 1: the cut in a heartbeat of Zone three or zone
22:34
Speaker 1: You're going to have to tell everybody what the cut is, okay,
22:38
Speaker 1: everyone doesn't know our alternate language. Go ahead, sorry, Um,
22:42
Speaker 1: like a really bad street in the ghetto that you
22:45
Speaker 1: go in one way and you can't really come back out,
22:48
Speaker 1: you know, is that in the same way. You know,
22:49
Speaker 1: it's interesting when I was prosecuting. It never failed. I
22:53
Speaker 1: would finally be trumping through some horrible area of town
22:59
Speaker 1: with my investigator Ernest, either with me or I just
23:01
Speaker 1: finally just gave up with them fussing at me not
23:04
Speaker 1: to go to these places and gone on my own,
23:06
Speaker 1: and I would be tromping around and it never failed.
23:10
Speaker 1: It would always be in the cut, the cut through
23:13
Speaker 1: the short cut, is what I'm saying. And it would
23:16
Speaker 1: be somewhere you don't want to go. And I could
23:19
Speaker 1: just imagine this family out there beating on the doors,
23:25
Speaker 1: and I remember Cheryl beating on the door and open
23:28
Speaker 1: it up, and to be a crack house or you know,
23:32
Speaker 1: worse anyway, that that's what happens. Where did you guys go,
23:38
Speaker 1: Lisa Valentineo in your search to find Alice, Well, believe
23:42
Speaker 1: it or not, we were. We were in those some
23:45
Speaker 1: of those areas and homes. And like I said, we
23:48
Speaker 1: became fortunate in that when we got other people involved,
23:52
Speaker 1: we had someone who knew what they were doing, and
23:54
Speaker 1: so when we were hitting those areas, it wasn't really us.
23:57
Speaker 1: So I mean we went everywhere. We searched all over
24:00
Speaker 1: this town, which is not very big, but it's not
24:03
Speaker 1: very small. And and from downtown at the riverfront, at
24:07
Speaker 1: bars at two am, to the worst neighborhoods to uh
24:12
Speaker 1: homeless shelters, um, you know, everywhere that you can imagine,
24:19
Speaker 1: trying to get some answers um to to these questions.
24:24
Speaker 1: So all along, what were police telling you? Were they
24:27
Speaker 1: still convinced she had just taken the powder and left?
24:31
Speaker 1: Were they starting to look at the possibility of abduction
24:34
Speaker 1: or homicide? Homicide never came up on our first trip
24:37
Speaker 1: down here. Um. Subsequently, after we left the first time,
24:40
Speaker 1: I in turn kind of became the family's folks then
24:43
Speaker 1: and traveled back and forth quite often. Uh well, Uh.
24:48
Speaker 1: The detective of the investigators switched on the case almost
24:51
Speaker 1: immediately because they went on vacation, which was good because
24:53
Speaker 1: we didn't even have a high side detective on the case.
24:55
Speaker 1: Originally we had embezzlement and fraud investigators on a missing
25:01
Speaker 1: Why they didn't believe that there was foul play or
25:06
Speaker 1: that she was missing, I mean, I'm laughing now, but
25:09
Speaker 1: it's it's extremely sad. It's just incredulous. I'm thinking, like
25:14
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it. So we got a new detective
25:16
Speaker 1: on the case. He was a homicide detective, but he
25:19
Speaker 1: actually was not much better. Um he really didn't believe
25:23
Speaker 1: that she was missing either. He thought she had left
25:25
Speaker 1: of her own course. And guys, again, Cheryl, I do
25:29
Speaker 1: not want to be in the position of trashing the cops.
25:32
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why. Some of the most decent
25:35
Speaker 1: and honest people I have ever known and the most
25:38
Speaker 1: hardworking have been police officers. Question and you know they
25:44
Speaker 1: there are some bad ones. I know that, and they
25:46
Speaker 1: make all of them look bad. But that's simply not true.
25:51
Speaker 1: I have seen them out beating the streets right beside me.
25:54
Speaker 1: I remember working cases for months on end. We would
25:58
Speaker 1: go out every single day in the rain, in the cold,
26:01
Speaker 1: looking in flop houses and brothels and doped ins, you
26:07
Speaker 1: name it, trying to find witnesses, trying to find victims,
26:10
Speaker 1: working through the night, having going out and having to
26:14
Speaker 1: arrest witnesses that we're afraid to come to court, you
26:17
Speaker 1: name it. So cops in my mind are good? Are
26:21
Speaker 1: there bad cops? Yes? Are there cops out of their
26:24
Speaker 1: league that don't have the training, Like here, you've got
26:26
Speaker 1: an embezzlement cops trying to find a missing person. But
26:29
Speaker 1: I bet you, I guarantee it. They tried right, And
26:33
Speaker 1: I do want to say I just, I just do
26:36
Speaker 1: you want to say that the investigator who has been
26:38
Speaker 1: on this case for the longest amount of time, um,
26:41
Speaker 1: and who has really been awesome? I mean, the guy
26:45
Speaker 1: who's been there for the longest amount of time has
26:47
Speaker 1: been great and he he has done his job. And
26:50
Speaker 1: so I just things have changed in the Woman Can
26:53
Speaker 1: Police department over these eleven years that this case has
26:56
Speaker 1: been there. So so what were they tell They were
26:59
Speaker 1: still sticking me the idea that she had just disappeared?
27:02
Speaker 1: What about it? Cheryl? Oh, yeah, that's all they're thinking.
27:04
Speaker 1: And Nancy, I agree with you. I mean, they're the
27:07
Speaker 1: fault of the earth people, but they are human and
27:10
Speaker 1: sometimes once they make their mind up, it's very difficult
27:14
Speaker 1: to get a police officer to think differently. Again, they
27:17
Speaker 1: thought she ran off, they thought she had been drinking,
27:20
Speaker 1: had an affair, whatever, They weren't on this radar of
27:24
Speaker 1: this person could have been murdered. So now where does
27:27
Speaker 1: the case stand right now? What do we know at
27:31
Speaker 1: this moment two thousand seventeen about what happened to Alison?
27:36
Speaker 1: With me? Allison's sister Lisa Valentino. Lisa, do you recall
27:41
Speaker 1: learning that your sister's remains have been found? Absolutely? Well, Actually,
27:49
Speaker 1: I got a phone call from the people that I've
27:52
Speaker 1: been working with down here and saying you're gonna get
27:54
Speaker 1: a call tomorrow from law enforcement. It's breaking all over
27:57
Speaker 1: down here that remains have been found, and I'm I
28:00
Speaker 1: want to just warn me that you know, we believe
28:02
Speaker 1: it's your sister. And I just I remember I was
28:06
Speaker 1: lying in bed, it was eleven o'clock at night, and
28:07
Speaker 1: I just was uh in shock. On the one hand, Um,
28:13
Speaker 1: I was finally grateful to have some answers as to
28:16
Speaker 1: where Alison was, even though I really knew in my
28:19
Speaker 1: heart where she was. But on the other hand, I
28:22
Speaker 1: I just you know, tremendous sadness and just you know,
28:26
Speaker 1: I I I had no words, I had no words,
28:29
Speaker 1: and um, sure enough, the next day we do get
28:33
Speaker 1: a phone call. However, they couldn't identify that it was
28:36
Speaker 1: definitely my sister. Um that that process took from April
28:40
Speaker 1: to September because we had to have her confirmed through
28:44
Speaker 1: d n a UM as we had no dental records,
28:47
Speaker 1: couldn't find current centul or any type of ventil records. Um.
28:51
Speaker 1: But I knew too. They sent me pictures of jewelry
28:53
Speaker 1: that was found on the body, and I knew that
28:55
Speaker 1: the jewelry was my sisters. I knew it was her. Um.
28:59
Speaker 1: What was the jewel ry A ring and a necklace?
29:04
Speaker 1: Um of hers? That was founded? What was so distinctive
29:08
Speaker 1: about it? What was distinctive that made you know it
29:10
Speaker 1: was her? I had just seen Alison prior to her disappearance,
29:15
Speaker 1: and I just I know that ring and the necklace
29:17
Speaker 1: that she had on. I just knew they were hers
29:19
Speaker 1: because I had I had seen them on her. Um.
29:24
Speaker 1: I had seen them on her previously when she had
29:26
Speaker 1: come to my house too for a visit, which was
29:29
Speaker 1: the last time I had seen her, So I knew
29:31
Speaker 1: it was her. But again there again too. I gotta
29:34
Speaker 1: tell you, this crazy thing that happens is the whole while,
29:38
Speaker 1: even when I knew she was her and we're reading
29:40
Speaker 1: for confirmation of Vienna, there's still that little increat maybe
29:42
Speaker 1: they're wrong, maybe they're wrong, you know, and and then
29:47
Speaker 1: you get the call you wanted to believe. You know,
29:50
Speaker 1: I did the same thing. In my head. I was
29:53
Speaker 1: making up all sorts of reasons why Keith's family was
29:56
Speaker 1: calling me, And I almost convinced myself by the time
30:00
Speaker 1: I could get back to the phone that there had
30:02
Speaker 1: been a car crash and he was alive and if
30:05
Speaker 1: I could hurry, I could get to and fix it.
30:07
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I saw it was my pastor actually, uh,
30:12
Speaker 1: nobody was home, and I saw a car at the
30:15
Speaker 1: church and pulled in to use the phone that was
30:17
Speaker 1: before cell phones, and ran in. He happened to be
30:20
Speaker 1: there and he called. I was on the other side
30:22
Speaker 1: of his desk and I read upside down Bernstein's funeral home.
30:27
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until he got off the phone that
30:30
Speaker 1: I knew Keith had been shot dead. So you try
30:33
Speaker 1: to tell yourself maybe this, maybe that when did you
30:37
Speaker 1: come to the realization she had been kidnapped and murdered.
30:40
Speaker 1: I think it all finally said in when we got
30:43
Speaker 1: the definite d NA back in September of that year. UM.
30:48
Speaker 1: For me, that phone call is I had all of
30:51
Speaker 1: this emotion and that's when it was finally well released.
30:55
Speaker 1: UM And and that's when it really when it really
30:59
Speaker 1: hit me to this was it, this, this had happened
31:02
Speaker 1: and she was no longer here and she met a
31:04
Speaker 1: brutally violent unto her wife, but she really did not
31:09
Speaker 1: deserve So sha all weigh in. Tell me about the
31:15
Speaker 1: discovery of Alison Foy's body and what does it mean
31:19
Speaker 1: for insically? Well, she was stabbed over forty times, Nancy
31:23
Speaker 1: in the front and the back of her chest, in
31:26
Speaker 1: her back. Um. The disposal site was off Carolina Beach Road,
31:31
Speaker 1: so it's all kind of a main thoroughfare, but it's
31:34
Speaker 1: in this little covid, this little wooded area, and it
31:38
Speaker 1: was in the open. She hadn't been buried or anything
31:40
Speaker 1: like that, which is critical to me. Um. And why
31:45
Speaker 1: why do you say that, I think the same thing.
31:47
Speaker 1: Why is it very important her body was not built
31:50
Speaker 1: Because again she's found with another person. So you've got
31:55
Speaker 1: two victims in the exact same area feet apart, and
31:59
Speaker 1: that the fact they weren't buried but they have been
32:02
Speaker 1: put there um a year apart, tells me that this
32:06
Speaker 1: killer is not only very familiar with that area, he's
32:10
Speaker 1: very comfortable in that area, meaning he probably revisits often
32:15
Speaker 1: and somehow he's able to do it unseen, which tells
32:19
Speaker 1: you another thing about him. He can go around town
32:22
Speaker 1: and nobody focuses on him for some reason. So for example,
32:26
Speaker 1: you know, you see a mail carrier truck, you see it,
32:29
Speaker 1: but you don't really see it because you're used to
32:31
Speaker 1: seeing them. You can dismiss that. You can dismiss FedEx
32:35
Speaker 1: or a piece of delivery guy or a cable company
32:38
Speaker 1: truck because you just whatever. So the primary suspect drives
32:42
Speaker 1: a taxicab, so again he can part different places. He
32:47
Speaker 1: can basically hide in plain sight. So those things are
32:50
Speaker 1: connected to me, they're obvious to me in that regard.
32:54
Speaker 1: For over two years, Lisa Valentino suspected her sister was
32:59
Speaker 1: dead and ask friends and strangers, please don't give up
33:03
Speaker 1: trying to learn what happened to my sister. Then she
33:07
Speaker 1: learns DNA testing confirms her sister, Alison Foy, just thirty
33:13
Speaker 1: four years old, is one of two women whose bones
33:18
Speaker 1: were found in the woods off Carolina Beach Road. What
33:23
Speaker 1: do you know about that area, Lisa Valentino, Carolina Beach Road?
33:28
Speaker 1: Is it um for? Is it remote? Is it heavily wooded?
33:33
Speaker 1: Is it near a trash dump? What is actually what
33:36
Speaker 1: we have discovered about the area was used as a
33:38
Speaker 1: kind of cut through area. UM a lot and also
33:43
Speaker 1: as a sex area at the crime scene. There were
33:46
Speaker 1: dozens and dozens of condoms and it was a place
33:49
Speaker 1: that people would go have sex. Um there there was
33:55
Speaker 1: a one restaurant. I wonder if they took I wonder
33:58
Speaker 1: if they took the condo, Cheryl McCollum, just in the
34:02
Speaker 1: remote possibility that not that I think a killer slash
34:06
Speaker 1: rapist is going to use the condom, but just in case.
34:10
Speaker 1: You never never know. But Nancy, I had a chance
34:14
Speaker 1: to walk that PROMI scene with Lisa Valentino, tell me,
34:17
Speaker 1: and it's amazing to me the track and the debris
34:20
Speaker 1: that is still there. And I'm like you, you know,
34:23
Speaker 1: you might want to go back, and you know, scavenge
34:26
Speaker 1: again every now and then. Well didn't they find she
34:28
Speaker 1: was wearing a pink sleeveless top. Didn't they find that there? Yeah?
34:32
Speaker 1: Well absolutely not. Not only did they find that's my
34:39
Speaker 1: I forgot how many months later was actually six weeks.
34:42
Speaker 1: Six weeks later, I went back to visit the site,
34:45
Speaker 1: even though it wasn't confirmed that that was my sister,
34:48
Speaker 1: but just because I felt I had to be there
34:49
Speaker 1: and see it. And the problem. Entering the site, there
34:53
Speaker 1: were more there were bones sounds. I was with my
34:55
Speaker 1: friend that he's like, what's this crime seem how to
34:58
Speaker 1: come back? And they ended up being more remains of
35:01
Speaker 1: my sister six weeks initially after she was already recovered. Okay,
35:05
Speaker 1: that is very upsetting to me, Cheryl that like they
35:09
Speaker 1: was placed there has to come and find her sister's bones.
35:14
Speaker 1: That is that's bad for a civilian to come in
35:19
Speaker 1: unearthed bones. Where were the bones, Lisa Valentino, That's bad.
35:25
Speaker 1: It's almost like they were never Like it was almost
35:28
Speaker 1: like somebody knew I was in town how because often
35:31
Speaker 1: the press would you know, the media would say I
35:34
Speaker 1: was coming back and we were meeting press actually to
35:37
Speaker 1: do an interview, and we had gotten there before then
35:40
Speaker 1: and they were just laying on top of leaves and
35:45
Speaker 1: tying um needles as if someone had placed them there
35:50
Speaker 1: almost like that is scary. That is very scary that
35:54
Speaker 1: either a the crime sine text didn't find it from
35:57
Speaker 1: the medical Examiner's office as well, or be someone had
36:01
Speaker 1: placed that there isn't this behind a Mexican restaurant that
36:06
Speaker 1: was closed. There's like a narrow strip of woods behind
36:09
Speaker 1: this Mexican restaurant. Uh to describe the scene a little
36:13
Speaker 1: bit more. Cheryl mccollumn me, it's right off the road.
36:17
Speaker 1: So here you have this Mexican restaurant. It's got like
36:20
Speaker 1: a driveway that you pull in. You can park right there,
36:23
Speaker 1: and there's a patch of graphs that you can easily
36:25
Speaker 1: chip a golf ball across. It's not far and you
36:28
Speaker 1: then you in this little wooded line of trees. It's
36:31
Speaker 1: not a huge wooded area, but it's it's enough trees
36:34
Speaker 1: to give cover. And then there's this little divid there's
36:38
Speaker 1: a COVID there and that's where the bodies were. Um,
36:41
Speaker 1: but I'll tell you something that was fascinating to me
36:44
Speaker 1: when we were at the crime scene. I got Lisa
36:46
Speaker 1: to take me to the pub. I mean it's right there.
36:49
Speaker 1: I mean it's three and a half miles. And then
36:51
Speaker 1: from the crime scene to where the main suspect lived.
36:55
Speaker 1: This is something that stuck out. There's a cell phone
36:59
Speaker 1: tower at the crime scene the body disposal sight. As
37:03
Speaker 1: she's driving me to the main suspects home. Every now
37:06
Speaker 1: and then I look up. I can still see that tower.
37:09
Speaker 1: I can still see it. I can still see it
37:11
Speaker 1: from his driveway. As the crow flies you can see
37:15
Speaker 1: that tower. So again, to me, if somebody wanted to revisit,
37:20
Speaker 1: often straight out of their backyard is a good way
37:22
Speaker 1: to do it. Because at this site you had no
37:25
Speaker 1: posing of victims, You had no staging of the victims.
37:27
Speaker 1: That was no ritual. This was literally where they were placed.
37:32
Speaker 1: He appears to me to be like a hunter type
37:36
Speaker 1: killer um opportunistic in a way, like he's gonna use
37:39
Speaker 1: his cab. Once they get in the cab, he's in control. Now.
37:46
Speaker 1: It's my understanding also that a search then ensued and
37:52
Speaker 1: at once her bones were identified. Uh, And that was
37:56
Speaker 1: several months later. About five months later, a search goes
38:00
Speaker 1: down of a man that had been accused of raping
38:04
Speaker 1: a prostitute. Is that correct, Cheryl? Correct? What happened? Well,
38:11
Speaker 1: the third victim now comes forward, and you know they're
38:16
Speaker 1: telling this story that he took me here to this restaurant,
38:19
Speaker 1: he beat me. Um somehow she's able to escate him,
38:23
Speaker 1: and it becomes the primary suspect and these other two murders,
38:29
Speaker 1: and again he takes why why why did he become
38:32
Speaker 1: a suspect? He gets another woman, he beats her, he
38:35
Speaker 1: assaults her. How did he then get tied into Alison,
38:40
Speaker 1: took her to the same place, the same Mexican restaurant,
38:42
Speaker 1: the same area, same cab, same kind of day. How
38:47
Speaker 1: how is he a legitimate cab driver? He probably legitimate
38:52
Speaker 1: cab driver, but he does a twist. Instead of using
38:56
Speaker 1: the cab company phone number, he uses his private cell
38:59
Speaker 1: phone number. And so what law uniforms have found. Afterwards,
39:03
Speaker 1: they interviewed a lot of the prostitutes in town. They
39:05
Speaker 1: all knew him, and they said, yeah, we would all
39:08
Speaker 1: you know, call him on his cell phone. He would
39:10
Speaker 1: come pick us up and if we didn't have money
39:12
Speaker 1: for a ride, he would give us a ride in
39:15
Speaker 1: exchange for a sexual favor. So they would. But how well,
39:18
Speaker 1: I don't understand when Alan, when Alison calls a cab,
39:21
Speaker 1: how did she didn't call somebody's private cell number? Did she?
39:25
Speaker 1: And this guy walks in and says, who asked for
39:27
Speaker 1: a cab? Right the the bar if I may, I'm sorry.
39:34
Speaker 1: The bar all knew him, and what they would do
39:37
Speaker 1: down here is and he was this suspect was actually offcuty.
39:41
Speaker 1: And this is how cab drivers down here at the
39:43
Speaker 1: time would make extra money. They called his private cell
39:47
Speaker 1: phone and said there's a fair here, and he would
39:50
Speaker 1: come and pick them up there. Their taxis at the
39:53
Speaker 1: time didn't even go back to the company's when they're
39:55
Speaker 1: done driving. They keep them at their home. So that
40:00
Speaker 1: is how it happened, that part of his m O nancy.
40:03
Speaker 1: It's totally off the books. The cab company couldn't tell
40:06
Speaker 1: law enforcement when he picked up a fair where he
40:09
Speaker 1: dropped off a fair because they didn't know. He didn't
40:11
Speaker 1: tell them. He was doing it all on his own.
40:14
Speaker 1: So tell me this the one woman who lived to
40:18
Speaker 1: tell the tale. After he takes her too, I guess
40:22
Speaker 1: behind is the Mexican restaurant closed? I understood it was shuddered?
40:25
Speaker 1: Is it working again? Still closed? So he takes her
40:31
Speaker 1: back to this burial ground, so to speak. If she
40:34
Speaker 1: manages to get away, correct she actually, I think I
40:38
Speaker 1: think what happened was and and was that he had
40:41
Speaker 1: pulled in to get a soda somewhere, and she was
40:44
Speaker 1: duct tape, And I think that's what happened. Somehow did
40:48
Speaker 1: you say, did you say duct tape? Duck paperhands? Where
40:53
Speaker 1: du tape? She manages to kick and somehow get out
40:57
Speaker 1: of the van and run across the street and someone
40:59
Speaker 1: calls law enforcement and that and and they arrest him
41:03
Speaker 1: and um, you know, they speak with her. But unfortunately
41:06
Speaker 1: what happens is at the time that this woman, um,
41:10
Speaker 1: who was living this life, was frightened and had been
41:13
Speaker 1: doing drugs, and she never shows up for her quarter feet.
41:16
Speaker 1: And so we are talking about I'm gonna go ahead
41:21
Speaker 1: and put his name out there is Timothy ian Oney,
41:24
Speaker 1: a former Ports City cab driver. That's who we're talking about.
41:29
Speaker 1: So because she had been using drugs, she didn't want
41:31
Speaker 1: to come to court. What happened then, Cheryl, he took
41:34
Speaker 1: a plea and it was reduced to almost nothing. But again,
41:38
Speaker 1: now you've got not just a parallel investigation, but you
41:41
Speaker 1: mean plea for the molestation or the assault on the
41:46
Speaker 1: woman who had been duckt taped, but because she used drugs,
41:50
Speaker 1: didn't come to create and I believe the actual plea
41:52
Speaker 1: was for like having sex in public or something. It
41:55
Speaker 1: was nothing originally, Okay, So then what happen had this
41:59
Speaker 1: parallel case going on with Alison and Angela, the two
42:03
Speaker 1: victims found in the wooded area, but now you have
42:05
Speaker 1: a third victim. So by any accounts, Nancy, you're talking
42:09
Speaker 1: about a serial killer. That's what you're talking about because
42:13
Speaker 1: he which means they're likely other victims. That tell me
42:17
Speaker 1: what you know about the other victim, Cheryl Angela. Well,
42:21
Speaker 1: Angela was also a prostitute at the time. Um, she
42:25
Speaker 1: was living you know, that lifestyle as well. She may
42:28
Speaker 1: there's some believe that she may have also been familiar
42:31
Speaker 1: with Timothy Ione and you know, may have Willie got
42:35
Speaker 1: in the car with him for a ride before he
42:37
Speaker 1: also assaulted and murdered her. So again there's these these
42:42
Speaker 1: you know, victims that didn't get the attention that possibly
42:46
Speaker 1: they should have. Alison did, and that's the great news.
42:49
Speaker 1: Her family was there, she didn't. Where does it stand now, Cheryl,
42:54
Speaker 1: It's it's still open being investigated, Nancy. We're trying to
42:58
Speaker 1: get the d A to take this case to the
43:01
Speaker 1: grand jury. That's our number one request at this time.
43:05
Speaker 1: He's got enough. Can I ask you what if anything
43:09
Speaker 1: actually links him other than the third witness who did
43:13
Speaker 1: not come to court to these two women. Can anybody
43:16
Speaker 1: in the bar identify him as coming in saying that
43:20
Speaker 1: who needs a cab? Can anybody say I called a
43:22
Speaker 1: cell number to come pick her up? Can do we
43:26
Speaker 1: have any witness like that, Well, we do, we do.
43:31
Speaker 1: We don't have someone for sure who could say with him.
43:33
Speaker 1: There's been sketches done, there have been other people have
43:37
Speaker 1: come forward and said they saw a cad pulls up
43:39
Speaker 1: in the woods um with parks one night. I mean,
43:43
Speaker 1: there's a ton if I if I could just say this,
43:46
Speaker 1: law enforcement believe this is the guy. I think everybody
43:51
Speaker 1: here believes this is the guy. And there's so much
43:54
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence, but unfortunately there's no DNA evidence blinking him
44:01
Speaker 1: uh to the scene. And I I know in my
44:05
Speaker 1: heart what's gonna happen is this is it? I've basically
44:08
Speaker 1: been told. Unless short of a miracle or a confession
44:11
Speaker 1: or anything else, there's no you know, this is where.
44:15
Speaker 1: This is where it kind of ends. Even with a
44:18
Speaker 1: new witness over the last year, who was another camp
44:20
Speaker 1: driver who finally came forward and said I saw him
44:24
Speaker 1: at the bar. So yes, you do have that. There
44:26
Speaker 1: was a new witness who stepped forward with more information.
44:29
Speaker 1: But that's not enough either. That's not enough. We need
44:32
Speaker 1: your help. We need your help to solve the murder
44:37
Speaker 1: of Alison Foy, along with we don't know how many others.
44:43
Speaker 1: The tip line zero three four, three three six zero
44:48
Speaker 1: repeat zo three three three six to zero. If this
44:54
Speaker 1: were your daughter, your sister, your wife, what you want
45:00
Speaker 1: justice I. Nancy Grace cried his stories, signing off goodbye
45:06
Speaker 1: to me. Sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss saisus