Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / President of the Police Association Paul McCue shares details on the survey into Police confidence and support for the Commissioner

Transcript

President of the Police Association Paul McCue shares details on the survey into Police confidence and support for the Commissioner · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We certainly have got a busy morning lined up for you.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: And joining me on the line is Paul mchue, the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: president of the Police Association. Good morning to you.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Paul, Good morning Katie.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Paul. Of course we have got you on the show
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: to talk about this highly anticipated survey and I am
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: going to get to that in just a couple of moments.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: But as we've been speaking about this morning, some terrible
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: vision has emerged. It's quite unbelievable really, from Woolworths CBD
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: late yesterday. It is a big group of people engaged
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: in what appears to be a brawl. It looks as
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: though somebody jumps over a counter and steals a knife
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: from one of the cafes there before lunging at somebody else,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: all in broad daylight at four o'clock in the afternoon. Paul,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: have you seen that vision and what was your reaction?
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Look, I just had a very quick glance this morning
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: at that vision after becoming aware of it and another horrific,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: disgraceful act of violent behavior in our community. And feel
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: extremely sorry for you know, the public, and imagine the
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: workers there who would have been fearing for their lives
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: when they saw that sort of behavior occurring right in
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: front of them. You know, imagine the people who may
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: have just picked their children up from school and headed
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: there to get some groceries at four o'clock in the afternoon.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just disgraceful behavior and sadly all too
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: common in our community at the moment.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Paul, That's what it feels like. You know, I know
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: that people listening to the show in Alla Springs are
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: probably thinking to themselves, well, you know this has happened
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: to us plenty of times, but in our CBD, in
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: a capital city of Australia, it is obscene behavior.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: It's not great indictment on wanting people to come to
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: the territories when that sort of footage is shown, and
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: no doubt that it'll make its way far and wide
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: through social media channels. But you know, by and larger course,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: we have a great place up here in the territory.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: But when you see that sort of behavior and that
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: complete disregard for society and safety in society and putting
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: people in harms, that cannot be tolerated. And it will
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: be really interesting to see what the government's response is
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: to this.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: It certainly will be Paul, can I ask last week
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: we've had quite an extensive discussion. It's certainly not the
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: first one we've had about anti social behavior in our CBD.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is another example of it. Do we
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: have enough police to deal with this?
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Well, certainly, the feedback into our office is we are
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: lacking numbers, certainly in Darwen Station. We know across the
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: board in the Greater Dawen area, we are certainly down
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: on numbers. And I know COVID has certainly impacted like
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: every workplace across the board.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: But it's not just that.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: It's vacant positions at Aren't Field, and it's also you know,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: we've got plenty of police out doing secondments in other areas,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: including some remote stations.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: So you know, we really need to have a look
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: at this.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: We've raised this specific issue with the Minister as recently.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: As last week.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: The feedback is strong from our members that quite frankly,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: they just don't have enough to fill their rosters at
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: the moment. And we know it's a topical issue, but
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: it's one that won't go away until we actually come
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: up with a solution.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Well, and Paul, it's one of those ones that for
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: our listeners is probably a bit confusing as well, because
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: you know, then we had the assistant commissioner on the
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: show last week saying that, you know, you can have
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: as many police as you like on the beat, but
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: there's still issues with alcohol and we're still going to
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: have concerns as a result of those issues as well.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I mean I don't necessarily disagree in terms
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: of you know, I mean that incident for example in Willies,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, police, we're unlikely to be able
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: to prevent that. I mean, they may have been able
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: to get there as quick as possible, but some things
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: are unpreventable. But what you want to see as a
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: strong police presence across the board, you know, I'm sure
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: the community want to see that, and I.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: Know the police themselves get frustrated. Certainly. The feedback we
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: get is they obviously.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Want to be out there in that community doing that
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: proactive engagement with the community, but quite frankly, sometimes I
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: just don't have the numbers and they are just simply
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: working every shift, job to job without the to do that.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: It is a real concern and one which I've no
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: doubt is going to pop up in this survey. I
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: understand that the survey into police confidence and also support
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: for the Police Commissioner Jamie Chalker went out late yesterday.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: It is going to enable rank and file officers to
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: have their say on issues which have plagued the force
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: in recent months. Paul just confirming it did go out yesterday.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: How many officers does that go out too?
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Okatie.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Obviously there's a lot of media interest and there's a
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: lot of community interest.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: But you know, this is a survey from for our membership.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: This did go out yesterday.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: It's gone out to over sixteen hundred of our members,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: which of course is the majority of the police force
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: throughout the entire territory. It went out yesterday. It's open
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: for two weeks. It is a confidential survey and you
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: know we won't know the results of that for a
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: fortnight or so until that's all been collated.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: All right, what exactly did it ask?
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Very short and sweet, if you like to say, it's
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: just simply eight questions. There was just simply a focus. Obviously,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: we all know that people want to know in terms
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: of the confidence in their leader, the Commissioner of Police.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: We've asked a question about that, obviously, in relation to that,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: we've also asked specific reasons behind that. We want them
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: to identify what reasons they want to put forward as
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: to why they may or may not have confidence in
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: the commissioner. And then very quickly it goes into some
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: really key topical issues such as do we have enough police?
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: And what do you think the reasons are for yes
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: or no? What's them morale like? And of course the
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: embarrassing wage freeze offer that's been put on the table
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: to our members.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: That's all. It is very short, short and succinct.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Paul, I know that in previ issues you and I
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: have spoken about the police survey. That then comes out,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: as I understand it, at the annual conference is that
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: what this one is.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Well, this will be discussed at annual conference. So the
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: majority of the questions in this are almost the identical
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: question we asked last year, because we want some comparative
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: data to be able to have a look and say,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: are our police still feeling the same as they did
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: twelve months ago? Because you know, back then, we know
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: many of them, for example, already said we didn't have
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: enough police, gave us some reasons why. So we want
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: to compare the data this year and then of course
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: if that is the case, then it's really it'll be
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: over to the government and the commissioner to say, Okay,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: this is an issue, and I know the commissioner has
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: put out a statement saying he wants to know the reasons,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: so we will provide all this to the government, the minister,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: the commissioner, and we want to sit down collectively and go, well,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: what does this mean. How are we going to fix
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: these issues?
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: If it still is an issue this year?
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Well, why do you think that it is so important
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: to ask those questions? You know, if the rank and
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: file come back and say that they don't have confidence
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: in the police commissioner, why is it important to know
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: the reasons why?
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean if you don't know the reasons why,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: you don't know how to rectify the issue. And you know,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: because sometimes confidence in leadership come down to many other factors,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: such as resourcing. For example, I mean, one of the
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: one of the key drivers behind low morale, behind mental health,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: fatigue and well being is not having enough police to
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: simply do the job. You fix one of those issues,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: you're going to fix a whole bunch of other issues.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: So it's really important to understand why these why these
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: motions will put forward through our regional meetings and then
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: be able to sit down with government and the commission
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: and so how are we going.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: To fix it?
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: So, Paul, what is going to happen here? If you've
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: got a large majority of the rank and file that
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: come back and say that they don't have confidence in
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police Commissioner.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Well, we've previously explained we don't employ mister Chalker. It's
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: an appointment, and you know that'll be that'll be information,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: as I've said, that we provide to the government and
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: then you know, obviously we can't anticipate what the results
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: will be. We'll just have to wait and see for
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: a fortnight's time. But you know, quite frankly, all these
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: results will be available to both the Missioner and the
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: government and then we'll have to wait for those to
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: come in to work out what the next step is.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, it will be a concern though, if you
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: do have a large percentage of the rank and file
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: saying they don't have confidence in the Police Commissioner and
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: in the executive, it's going to really put with the
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Police Association. I would say in a difficult position if
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: then the government isn't prepared to take any action.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, obviously that'll be That's why the reasons behind
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: this are so important, and it's something we will discuss
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: at our annual conference in three weeks time.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: We'll have a range.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Of delegates there from around the territory. We're want to
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: provide the feedback and the details and the results of
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: the survey to them, let them have their discussion. The
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Commissioner has already agreed with his deputies to come to
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: our conference this year and sit down and have a
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: good discussion with all of the delegates from around the
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: territory and we welcome that and obviously we'll be frank
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: and honest with him at that conversation.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Well, is the aim of this survey based on the
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: questions and the fact that you are, you know, not
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: only asking if people have confidence in the Commissioner, but
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: then following up with the reasons why they may not
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: have confidence with the Commissioner and the executive or the
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: reasons that they do have confidence. Is the aim of
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: that rather than a situation where where the Commissioner you know,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: may not be able to stay in that role if
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: if there isn't the confidence of the rank and file.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Is the aim then to with the answers from that
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: survey and and you know, with the reasons why they
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: don't have confidence if that's the case, to keep him
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: in the role and try and rectify those issues.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I don't know. I mean, we can't
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: speculate at this stage. But obviously if a majority of
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: members come back and say they don't have confidence in
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: the Commissioner, that will be a discussion with the government
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: about what that means. But of course the obviously the
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: other I guess factored to it all is if if
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: the majority of our membership come back and say we
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: simply don't have enough police.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Is extremely low.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: These are issues that the government can fix. These are
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: issues the commissioner can fix. But in terms of the
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: confidence in the commission well, that'll be a discussion with government.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, it's going to be very interesting to
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: see how it all pans out. I think every year
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: it's interesting to see the results of this survey or
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: similar surveys, but particularly this year. What data is that
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: conference happening and is that when the survey results will
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: come through?
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously conference this year is around the eighteenth to
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: nineteenth of August, so only a few weeks away, and
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: our survey closes on the ninth of August.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: One of the other things that's certainly been bubbling along, Paul,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: is the alcohol policy and the lifting of alcohol restrictions
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: in some of those remote communities. Were large number of
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: those remote communities, only seven deciding to opt in or
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: opt out. I can't remember exactly what the wording is now,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: it's been quite confusing, but deciding to keep their restrictions
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: in place. How are things going from a police perspective?
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Not well, really, Katie.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know this was always going to be
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: the case. I mean, what we've seen here is a
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: flick of the switch to you know, I guess conditions
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: from twenty odd years ago where alcohol did flow quite
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: a bit, quite a bit free than what it has
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: previously over the lasted fifteen years or so, with a
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: stronger futures legislation. Feedback straight into our office was an
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: increase in domestic violence, an increase in alcohol related job attendance.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: So none of that was a surprise.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: And we all know that alcohol is a driver for
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: our violence in our community. So it's a really disappointing
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: step the government took.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Wow, so that quickly there's already been an increase in
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: DV and also in police call outs.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look overnight essentially. I mean, you know, you can't
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: hide the facts. The facts are in. Alcohol is available
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: at a far easier rate than it was previously. We
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: all for that have been that have been here for
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: a very long time. We know what those horrible days
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: of their eighties and nineties were like, you know, with
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: the amounts of alcohol related harm. We know the government
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: themselves is the government been in six.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: Years now, Katie.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Five years ago they commissioned a review into our whole
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: related matters in the territory. And five years ago they
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: were told what they had to do about this legislation.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: And we want to know, we want to know as
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: an association what they did about recommendations in that review
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: when it comes to consulting with town, camps and communities
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: about the ending of the Stronger Futures legislation, because they're
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: putting the blame on federal government and everyone else. They
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: commission a report five years ago. Have they fulfilled their
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: obligations in it? And if not, why not?
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Well we are due to catch up with the independent
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Member for our lun Robin Lanley, in a few minutes time.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I know that she's calling for this to be halted. Paul,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: what are your thoughts?
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Well, we made our position quite clear back in May.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: We took the step to join together with numerous other
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: representative bodies, including the Original Medical Services Alliance Congress, NAJA,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: the People Alcohol Action Coalition. We issued a statement back
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: then asking and pleading with the government to just simply
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: press the pause button and ensure consultation took place, rather
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: than simply flick the switch and then try and consult
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: and then try and expect people are going to do
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: the right thing and hopefully opt in to extending these restrictions.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: But we all know that was never going to happen,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: so our positions clear. It should have been paused and
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: there should have been a lot more work done with
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: the community and the police themselves. Of course, police and
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: health are the first and foremost responders to all the
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: harm that comes from the alcohol flowing in our community,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: and we know more has come out since these legislation
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: changes took place.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Well, I am going to have to get ready to
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: wrap up, but just very quickly what of the roles
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: then of those palis in Alice Springs and some of
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: those other locations.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: How they going now, Well, it's a difficult challenge for them.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: We're already down on significant numbers for parleys in Alice
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: and now this legislation means effectively. I mean, my our
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: view certainly is they're very limited what they can do now.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Obviously they can still play a part, but these legislation
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: changes have come in with our consideration to how that
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: affects them and the police response, and that's very disappointing.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Police Association President Paul mceue, We always appreciate your time.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Thanks very much for chatting with us today. Good on you,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Thanks Katie, thank you. You are listening to Mix one
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: O four nine's three sixty