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#025 Jason Flom with Anthony DiPippo · Wrongful Conviction

0:04
Speaker 1: I think we have the best legal system.
0:05
Speaker 2: It's just the people that implement they get lost along
0:09
Speaker 2: the way and forget what their job really is. He
0:13
Speaker 2: just kept on trying to remind me that who was
0:15
Speaker 2: in authority, who was in control, and how easy it
0:19
Speaker 2: was for my body to be found in any alley
0:23
Speaker 2: of New York City.
0:25
Speaker 3: It's a tough prison when you have the guards going
0:28
Speaker 3: against you because they are the biggest gang in the prison.
0:33
Speaker 1: They do that.
0:33
Speaker 2: They'll give a guy a life sentence and go home
0:36
Speaker 2: in eat spaghetti like it was nothing. And anybody that said, well,
0:40
Speaker 2: why would you confess to something that you didn't do?
0:42
Speaker 2: My question to them will be why wouldn't you confess
0:45
Speaker 2: when somebody's threatening to kill your life?
0:48
Speaker 1: You judge?
0:49
Speaker 4: He said, how you feel? I said, I'm okay.
0:51
Speaker 2: He said, well, the days you're lucky, day you're going home.
0:56
Speaker 4: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with
1:15
Speaker 4: Jason Flomm. Today's guest is a larger than life character
1:19
Speaker 4: in every way. Anthony di Pippo.
1:21
Speaker 1: Anthony di Pippo went behind bars as a nineteen year
1:24
Speaker 1: old troublemaker, but insists he was never the killer. They
1:27
Speaker 1: said he was.
1:28
Speaker 3: After twenty years in prison for a crime the courts
1:31
Speaker 3: now say he did not commit.
1:32
Speaker 1: The jury and Putnam County found him not guilty in
1:35
Speaker 1: the nineteen ninety four rape and murder of twelve year
1:37
Speaker 1: old Josette Wright.
1:39
Speaker 4: This was his third trial for the same crime.
1:41
Speaker 1: The previous convictions were overturned, then on Tuesday an acquittal.
1:45
Speaker 1: The main witness against him was a former girlfriend who
1:47
Speaker 1: said she witnessed the attack, but the jury didn't buy.
1:50
Speaker 1: What we learned at this trial is that the eyewitness
1:52
Speaker 1: was incredible. In the third trial, the defense was allowed
1:55
Speaker 1: to suggest Howard Gombert is the real killer, seen with
1:58
Speaker 1: the victims shortly before her disappear yearans and currently in
2:01
Speaker 1: a Connecticut prison on sex assault charges. The Putnam County
2:04
Speaker 1: District Attorney, though, isn't backing down. He insists not guilty
2:07
Speaker 1: is not the same as innocent.
2:09
Speaker 4: He was freed six months ago. Anthony, Welcome to the show.
2:13
Speaker 3: Great to be on the show. Thank you for having me.
2:15
Speaker 1: So.
2:15
Speaker 4: Anthony is a very interesting guy. I've gotten to know
2:19
Speaker 4: him well over the last several months since he's been
2:21
Speaker 4: out of prison. And when I say he's a larger
2:23
Speaker 4: than life character, what are you six' five almost six y. Six,
2:27
Speaker 4: yeah he looks like a gentle. Giant so just gregarious
2:32
Speaker 4: and funny and fun to be. Around and so it
2:35
Speaker 4: really belies the incredible saga that you've lived, through how
2:41
Speaker 4: you came out with your spirits so so strong and so,
2:45
Speaker 4: positive and it gives me a lot of joy just
2:48
Speaker 4: hanging around with. You So i'm glad to have you.
2:50
Speaker 3: Here, well thank. You you, KNOW i try to live
2:52
Speaker 3: in for the moment and for the future and not
2:54
Speaker 3: in the. PAST i did twenty years wrongfully full so
2:56
Speaker 3: accus of CRIMES i didn't. Commit and it's a privilege
2:59
Speaker 3: to be back in. Society you, know a lot of
3:00
Speaker 3: people in my situation don't get to make it.
3:03
Speaker 4: Here, yeah that's. True in, fact we'll get to. It
3:05
Speaker 4: the guy who was lawfully convicted with you is not
3:08
Speaker 4: here because he's still locked up for the same, crime
3:11
Speaker 4: which is crazy because you've been. Exonerated and let's go
3:14
Speaker 4: back to the time of the. CRIME i, mean you
3:16
Speaker 4: were still a, kid, right, right which is which makes
3:19
Speaker 4: it extra, tragic right because the fact that you lost those.
3:22
Speaker 4: Years so you grew up where.
3:24
Speaker 3: In, Carmel New, York, Carmon New.
3:26
Speaker 4: York nice, place pretty nice.
3:27
Speaker 3: Place it's picking fences and people who are just living.
3:31
Speaker 3: Life is one of the safest communities according to The
3:35
Speaker 3: state to live.
3:36
Speaker 4: In so you had a relatively happy childhood growing up In,
3:39
Speaker 4: carmel and things are going. Good you play, sports.
3:42
Speaker 3: You, KNOW i was involved in wrestling in, school AND
3:44
Speaker 3: i wasn't involved with, baseball football and all of. That
3:47
Speaker 3: but you, KNOW i was doing a lot of stuff
3:49
Speaker 3: that normal kids, don't AND i did come to an age,
3:52
Speaker 3: where you, KNOW i began experimenting with drugs AND i
3:55
Speaker 3: kind of went south on, everything and that kind of
3:58
Speaker 3: led me down the path to how the police started
4:01
Speaker 3: to focus in on me as a personal interest just
4:04
Speaker 3: because of WHAT i was. DOING i, mean we weren't
4:07
Speaker 3: out threatening people or robbing, people committing sexual assault, crimes
4:11
Speaker 3: but you, know we were using and selling, drugs and
4:13
Speaker 3: we were dressing up and we were playing the. Part you,
4:16
Speaker 3: know as the culture shows. That you, know when you're a,
4:18
Speaker 3: kid you kind of go certain. Way you're listening to rap,
4:22
Speaker 3: music listening to you easily. Influenced these influencers affected, me
4:26
Speaker 3: AND i left school.
4:27
Speaker 4: Sort of like a knock around. Guy but you weren't hurting.
4:29
Speaker 3: Anybody, no it wasn't my. GOAL i didn't wake up
4:32
Speaker 3: in the morning to, say, Oh i'm going to rape,
4:34
Speaker 3: somebody Or i'm going to go rob, somebody Or i'm gonna hurt.
4:37
Speaker 3: Somebody but at the same, time we were. Youths we
4:40
Speaker 3: were criminal. THINKERS i, mean it. Happens i'm not a
4:42
Speaker 3: criminal thinker. TODAY i like to think of myself as
4:45
Speaker 3: a mature human.
4:46
Speaker 4: Being many of us have had our transgressions at that.
4:50
Speaker 4: Age so things are going along pretty. Well you're having
4:52
Speaker 4: your different issues, whatever some of your teenage things that
4:55
Speaker 4: are going. On you got to get, through like a
4:56
Speaker 4: lot of. People and then a crazy thing happens in the,
4:59
Speaker 4: community which is a twelve year old girl was raped and. Murdered,
5:03
Speaker 4: right we're talking nineteen ninety four, Now, yes her name
5:07
Speaker 4: Was Josette, Right Josette, Right and this must have been
5:10
Speaker 4: big news in the community like.
5:11
Speaker 3: That it was huge. News it was in the. Newspapers
5:13
Speaker 3: everybody was talking about. It the entire police forces in
5:16
Speaker 3: the community got together and they were trying to solve this.
5:19
Speaker 4: Crime, well it took a long time to find.
5:21
Speaker 3: It, right thirteen. Months she was last seen In october
5:24
Speaker 3: of nineteen ninety, four and her skeletal remains were found
5:28
Speaker 3: In november nineteen ninety. Five and so they find this
5:32
Speaker 3: girl in the. Woods rope is attached to, her her
5:34
Speaker 3: hands were bound behind her, back the right leg was
5:37
Speaker 3: pulled up and the rope went around the neck and
5:41
Speaker 3: sort of a half hog tied. POSITION i don't want
5:44
Speaker 3: to be, graphic but the underwear was inside of her
5:47
Speaker 3: mouth and the bro was tied around her. Face and
5:50
Speaker 3: she was found, prone face, down and she decomposed in that.
5:54
Speaker 4: Position and this is where things start to get really, weird,
5:57
Speaker 4: right because now you have a, REAL i, Mean i'm
6:00
Speaker 4: getting the shills thinking about, it a really terrifying. Scenario.
6:04
Speaker 3: Right it's the most horrible you can imagine.
6:06
Speaker 4: Everybody's worst, NIGHTMARE a little, girl innocent found in having
6:10
Speaker 4: been tortured and. Killed and now the pressure, mounts right
6:15
Speaker 4: the cops they got a fin her who did, it
6:16
Speaker 4: but for a lot of, reasons it was.
6:18
Speaker 3: Re electioneer for the, sheriff and so everybody wanted this case.
6:22
Speaker 3: Solved so they started looking at, people and one of
6:25
Speaker 3: the people they were looking at was a guy Named Howard,
6:27
Speaker 3: gombert who had later had confessed that he committed this
6:30
Speaker 3: crime to several. Individuals she was last seen getting into
6:34
Speaker 3: his red car with The connecticut license. Plates, now the
6:36
Speaker 3: woman eye witness that seene this identified his photo out
6:41
Speaker 3: of a photo ray as if anybody number, two he
6:44
Speaker 3: was number. TWO i wasn't in the, photo, right AND
6:46
Speaker 3: i didn't drive a red. Car Howard gombert did drive
6:48
Speaker 3: a red car With connecticut. Plates so you have this
6:51
Speaker 3: girl getting in a red car fifteen minutes after she
6:53
Speaker 3: walks out of her house for the last, time which
6:56
Speaker 3: is a stone strow away from her. Home now she's
6:59
Speaker 3: not seen. Again the next time they find, her she's
7:01
Speaker 3: in the woods in this. Condition WHEN i went to,
7:04
Speaker 3: TRIAL i didn't know about this, Guy Howard. Gombert my
7:06
Speaker 3: attorney had previously represented him on a rape, charge so
7:10
Speaker 3: he received the pre trial discovery material that implicated his former,
7:14
Speaker 3: client this Guy Howard.
7:15
Speaker 4: Gombert it's not there for a, second. Right this is
7:17
Speaker 4: where things get really. Weird the fact is the attorney
7:20
Speaker 4: who was representing you had previously represented the guy who
7:24
Speaker 4: was the actual, suspect, correct which is totally, FORBIDDEN i
7:28
Speaker 4: mean an, unethical not, allowed whatever you want to call.
7:31
Speaker 4: It any lawyer knows that they can't do, that and in,
7:35
Speaker 4: fact he withheld information that he had that would have
7:38
Speaker 4: implicated his former client and ended up screwing in the
7:43
Speaker 4: most And i'm excusing a very nice word for, it
7:45
Speaker 4: screwing you his current. Client it's so backwards and so
7:49
Speaker 4: conflicted and so fucked, up honestly that people can't even
7:52
Speaker 4: imagine that this goes. On but it. Does but let's
7:55
Speaker 4: go back to how this, started, right because it started
7:59
Speaker 4: with guy Named.
8:00
Speaker 3: Gombret but we're doing the week they found her, remains
8:04
Speaker 3: so they got this eyewitness. Testimony that, week they also
8:08
Speaker 3: interviewed people That Howard gombert knew That they were saying
8:12
Speaker 3: he was trying to entice her into a babysitting, job
8:14
Speaker 3: and that he was flirting with her and he was
8:17
Speaker 3: acting strange around. Her so the cops are focusing on
8:21
Speaker 3: this Guy. Gombert but now we're driving along To Jersey.
8:25
Speaker 3: City we go to a. Rave LIKE i, said we
8:27
Speaker 3: were using and selling. Drugs we were coming back from
8:30
Speaker 3: this rave and we get pulled. Over, now while we
8:33
Speaker 3: were in the. Car president in the car was Me Dominic,
8:36
Speaker 3: neglia who was the later, informant And Andrew, kreevak who
8:39
Speaker 3: became my co. Defendant we're in this car and we're
8:42
Speaker 3: talking just candidly about they just found this girl in the.
8:45
Speaker 3: Woods so when we got, arrested Dominic neglia told the
8:48
Speaker 3: police that we might have information on that. Case so
8:52
Speaker 3: they whisked him away and they promised to treat him
8:54
Speaker 3: with some special treatment to get him off his drug
8:56
Speaker 3: charges or whatever if he would further give information upon
9:00
Speaker 3: us about what we were talking.
9:01
Speaker 4: About it was only, sixteen, right he was.
9:03
Speaker 3: Seventeen we were talking about basic newspaper. Knowledge we weren't talking,
9:08
Speaker 3: about you, know implied knowledge that we actually participated in his.
9:11
Speaker 3: Crime so then what happened from there was that Dominic
9:14
Speaker 3: negli was repeatedly pulled out of his, school pulled out
9:17
Speaker 3: of his, job until he got. Fired he worked at
9:19
Speaker 3: The olive garden until he was brought to the police
9:22
Speaker 3: station for several hours of, interrogation and this Detective, Castalo
9:27
Speaker 3: Patrick costalo and his other Detective William quick were telling
9:30
Speaker 3: him they have to get information against, me otherwise he's
9:34
Speaker 3: going to go to prison for his. Charges and they
9:36
Speaker 3: were paying him money and they were beating him. Up
9:38
Speaker 3: at the same. Time he, SAID i don't want to
9:40
Speaker 3: do this. Anymore he came to a point where he,
9:42
Speaker 3: says EVERYTHING i said was a. FABRICATION i don't want
9:45
Speaker 3: to do this. Anymore So, castaldo who was later indicted
9:48
Speaker 3: for this similar, conduct hit the guy in the head
9:51
Speaker 3: with the handcuffs and spin on. Him said you ain't
9:53
Speaker 3: got no other. Choice so he said. Fine he came
9:56
Speaker 3: back and, said all, right they wanted. WITNESSES i got
9:59
Speaker 3: your Witness Adam, Wilson Denise, rose And bill. McGregor supposedly
10:03
Speaker 3: this crime happened in the van and they were. There
10:06
Speaker 3: so the cops took this information and went To Denise
10:09
Speaker 3: rose and threatened her were life in prison for three.
10:11
Speaker 3: Weeks was your girlfriend, Right, yeah we were seeing each
10:14
Speaker 3: other on and, off and at the time shortly prior
10:17
Speaker 3: to her given a, statement we were seeing each. Other
10:19
Speaker 3: but THEN i broke up with, her which you, know
10:21
Speaker 3: it's not the cause of why she did this to,
10:23
Speaker 3: me but it probably contributed because some woman are, scorn you,
10:26
Speaker 3: know they get a certain feeling towards, something and so
10:30
Speaker 3: she became a witness against. Me, now remember WHAT i
10:33
Speaker 3: told you about how the body was tied. Up she
10:35
Speaker 3: said the girl was. Gagged their hands were tied in
10:37
Speaker 3: the front and the rope was tied to nothing. Else
10:39
Speaker 3: with the Forensic evinance's contrary to, that with the police
10:42
Speaker 3: were mistaken because the finger bones not to be graphic,
10:45
Speaker 3: here but the finger bones felt to the rib, cage
10:47
Speaker 3: so they wanted a mistaken impression the girl's hands were
10:49
Speaker 3: tied in the, front so they spoon fed this To Denise.
10:52
Speaker 3: Rose So Denise rose parrots, this so she swears that
10:55
Speaker 3: the hands were tied in the. Front, now if your
10:57
Speaker 3: hands are tied in the front and you're gagged in
10:58
Speaker 3: the mouth and you're being an attacked to whatever you're
11:01
Speaker 3: going to be able to, pull you reach up to
11:03
Speaker 3: him out to pull the gag out and bread if
11:05
Speaker 3: the theory of death is. Asphixiation but we were later
11:09
Speaker 3: able to find out that this, Guy Howard, gombert did
11:11
Speaker 3: this the ten other girls with the same type of
11:15
Speaker 3: bondage and.
11:15
Speaker 4: Stuff why did the, cops in your, opinion when they
11:18
Speaker 4: had the guy who turned out to be the right,
11:20
Speaker 4: guy This gomber, right wrong, guy, right however you want
11:23
Speaker 4: to talk about, It they had the actual, perpetrator, Right
11:26
Speaker 4: how did they go so far? Wrong they were interviewing,
11:29
Speaker 4: him they were interrogating. Him, right they had it. Right
11:32
Speaker 4: all they had to do WAS i, mean this thing
11:34
Speaker 4: pretty much came with, instructions, right you had the red,
11:37
Speaker 4: car you had the, witnesses you had and then ultimately
11:40
Speaker 4: it comes out that he's this serial. Predator. RIGHT i
11:43
Speaker 4: don't know if they had that information at that, time
11:45
Speaker 4: but why did they go off of?
11:47
Speaker 3: Him LIKE i, said Dominic neglia and then From Denise
11:51
Speaker 3: rose and went on To Adam, wilson, who since we, can't,
11:54
Speaker 3: did and Then bill, McGregor, who since we can't. Did,
11:56
Speaker 3: supposedly the, crime The deirya to crime was that we
11:59
Speaker 3: got so high in a van we played spin the
12:01
Speaker 3: bottle and the girl just wound up dead That andy
12:04
Speaker 3: attacked or stuffed their mouth with the underwear tight her
12:06
Speaker 3: hands in, front and then he went first for a
12:09
Speaker 3: minute and a, half and then SUPPOSEDLY i went first
12:10
Speaker 3: for a, minute and then supposedly we were supposed to
12:13
Speaker 3: dump the. Body now this is all a fabrication to begin,
12:16
Speaker 3: With but the people that were supposedly playing spin The,
12:20
Speaker 3: bottle who were falsely identified By Dominic, neglia had recanted.
12:23
Speaker 3: It So Adam wilson, says after twelve to fifteen hour
12:26
Speaker 3: interrogation With Dan, stevens the same guy that Cohorse Jeffrey,
12:30
Speaker 3: deskovic was using a light detective. Test and we all
12:32
Speaker 3: know That Jeffrey dskovic is innocent BECAUSE dna established a
12:36
Speaker 3: real killer and a real kill. Confess gave the same
12:39
Speaker 3: type of lie detective tests to my Friend Adam, wilson
12:42
Speaker 3: and he signed the paper but immediately. Recanted went just
12:44
Speaker 3: probation officer the next day said the story is. UNTRUE
12:47
Speaker 3: i was not in a. Van the cops threatened. Me
12:49
Speaker 3: they SAID i was going to be charged as an
12:50
Speaker 3: accomplished and accessory to murder AND i wouldn't be able
12:54
Speaker 3: to go. Home so he signed a statement and. Recanned
12:56
Speaker 3: the next. Day bill, McGregor he. Recanted it took him
12:59
Speaker 3: ten years to, recant but he. Recanted gave us a
13:02
Speaker 3: sworn After david that cops threatening with accessory or accomplished
13:06
Speaker 3: to murder unless he put me in a. Van and
13:08
Speaker 3: he said he never Met josette right in his, life
13:10
Speaker 3: and he said he doesn't know Who Denise rose was
13:13
Speaker 3: until ninety, six two years after the, crime when the
13:15
Speaker 3: police Introduced Denise rose to, him and they Had Denise
13:19
Speaker 3: rose try to spoon feed him the story while he's
13:21
Speaker 3: in the police, department because he only said he fell
13:23
Speaker 3: asleep during the crime and woke up at.
13:24
Speaker 4: Home this is making my head, hurt, Right so they Have, gombert,
13:28
Speaker 4: right and then this terrible sequence of events happens where
13:32
Speaker 4: they pull you guys over and then that turns into
13:36
Speaker 4: exactly what we just talked. About but then at the
13:38
Speaker 4: same time they must have, said all, right, well we're
13:41
Speaker 4: gonna let this Guy gombert go because we think we
13:43
Speaker 4: got a different. Lead is that basically how you understand?
13:46
Speaker 4: It because it's so.
13:46
Speaker 3: Weird he asked a critical, question how did the focus
13:50
Speaker 3: shift Off gombert to? Us So Dominic neglia in my,
13:54
Speaker 3: view was that? Shift is there anything more to? It
13:57
Speaker 3: were they Protecting? GOMBERT i don't. Know ALL i know
14:01
Speaker 3: is that guilt was shift to the actually innocent by the,
14:05
Speaker 3: police who either did so maliciously or by. Mistake but
14:09
Speaker 3: it was, done and we wound up spending the next
14:12
Speaker 3: twenty years And Andy stole in jail for crimes we didn't.
14:15
Speaker 3: COMMIT i don't know why the cops wanted us so,
14:19
Speaker 3: badly but it just. Happened it was a twenty year
14:22
Speaker 3: struggle to get out of, prison And god bless. Us
14:25
Speaker 3: i'm here and we're gonna Get andy.
14:27
Speaker 4: Out, yeah we're gonna get him. Out the question Is,
14:29
Speaker 4: gombert what happened to? Him?
14:30
Speaker 3: So CAN i just tell the story About Howard? Gombert so,
14:33
Speaker 3: yeah people can, understand all. Right Howard gombert is incarcerated
14:37
Speaker 3: now for taking an eight year old girl in, woods
14:40
Speaker 3: threatening her with. Death i'm not going to name names
14:42
Speaker 3: because these people are some of them are still. Living
14:44
Speaker 3: he threatens her with, death he sexual assaults. Her in
14:47
Speaker 3: the last eleven years of his, freedom he was charged
14:50
Speaker 3: four time series sex crimes on one girl he was
14:53
Speaker 3: abusing from when she was eight to. Eighteen would repeatedly
14:57
Speaker 3: tie her up and put the underwear in her mouth
14:59
Speaker 3: and tire her hands behind her back with various, things
15:01
Speaker 3: including the. Rope he was sixty four days prior to
15:05
Speaker 3: the girl that went. Missing in my, Case joe's that,
15:07
Speaker 3: Right and this is very critical right, here and this
15:09
Speaker 3: is HOW i Know gomber is, guilty is that he
15:13
Speaker 3: abducted his other, babysitter blonde, hair blue, eyes strikingly similar
15:17
Speaker 3: characteristics at knife. POINT a knife was also found at
15:20
Speaker 3: the crime. Scene he jumps out of the trees and
15:23
Speaker 3: abducts her a, knife point ties her hands behind her,
15:25
Speaker 3: back and repeatedly sexually Assaultser i'm not going to identify
15:29
Speaker 3: no names here. This but he put the underwear in her,
15:32
Speaker 3: mount he tied something around her. Face this is an
15:35
Speaker 3: identical modus opera and di with a, babysitter and he
15:39
Speaker 3: was Enticing jose at the. Babysit she. Quit she went
15:42
Speaker 3: to the police. Department while the police report that night
15:44
Speaker 3: documented all this, down documented. This she didn't Identify Howard
15:48
Speaker 3: gombert in the police report because later she said she was.
15:51
Speaker 3: Scared but she did call. Us we didn't know who she.
15:53
Speaker 3: Existed she did call us and, said this is what.
15:56
Speaker 3: Happened Howard gombert did this to. Me so she comes
15:59
Speaker 3: forward with. This the modus operandi is distinct and. Unique
16:02
Speaker 3: this wasn't an. Accident this wasn't somebody who created the
16:06
Speaker 3: girl around a gas station for two, hours like the prosecution,
16:09
Speaker 3: said for the entire views and pleasure of the town Of.
16:11
Speaker 3: Carmel this is somebody that jumped out of the darkness
16:13
Speaker 3: and fled back off into the. Night, NOW i just
16:16
Speaker 3: want to build a little bit more On Howard Gombert
16:18
Speaker 3: Howard gombert was also seen six months later With Robin
16:21
Speaker 3: murphy seventeen who's still, missing And Robin. Murphy they were
16:25
Speaker 3: seen at this laundry matt they were. Together years, later
16:28
Speaker 3: they would Find Robin murphy's underwear bearing HER dna eight
16:32
Speaker 3: billion to one odds that it was HER dna and
16:34
Speaker 3: a trophy suitcase maintained By Howard gombert with some underwear
16:38
Speaker 3: from his other rape. Victims her necklace what we believed
16:41
Speaker 3: to be her necklace was hanging from his rear view,
16:43
Speaker 3: mirror and when the cops arrested him for the last
16:45
Speaker 3: charge of the eight year, old they found this material
16:48
Speaker 3: and they tested. It now years go by after, that he's,
16:52
Speaker 3: incarcerated serving time in the McDougall Walker Correctional, facility where
16:56
Speaker 3: he proceeds to tell a fellow jail inmate that he
17:00
Speaker 3: had sex With josette right when she went, missing and
17:04
Speaker 3: that they'll never Find Robin murphy's, remains and that they
17:07
Speaker 3: have material With Robert MURPHY'S dna on, it and that
17:09
Speaker 3: he was trying to Entice josette the babysit and that
17:12
Speaker 3: he got her in the car with the babysitting. Lore
17:14
Speaker 3: now all these statements or declarations against penal interest made
17:17
Speaker 3: By Howard gombert in The Connecticut Correctional institution that are
17:20
Speaker 3: corroborated by proof independent of the statements, themselves to attest
17:25
Speaker 3: to the trustworthiness and reliability which culminated in my third
17:29
Speaker 3: reversal because of the second, charal the judge didn't allow
17:32
Speaker 3: any of this in you don't let the jury hear
17:33
Speaker 3: the Name Howard.
17:34
Speaker 4: Gombert so there's a number of things here that anybody
17:37
Speaker 4: who has any thread of decency and cares about, women
17:41
Speaker 4: the girls in this, case, right the idea is so
17:47
Speaker 4: fucking outrageous that this guy was allowed by the authorities
17:51
Speaker 4: to go free and went on to commit these unspeakable
17:55
Speaker 4: crimes against these young women over and over, again and
18:00
Speaker 4: it took them so long to figure it out when
18:02
Speaker 4: none of those things ever really needed to happen if
18:04
Speaker 4: they would have done it right the first, time forgetting
18:07
Speaker 4: for a moment the fact that you were robbed of
18:09
Speaker 4: the best years of your, life as Was. Krevak but
18:13
Speaker 4: that's what never ceases to blow me away about the
18:16
Speaker 4: idea that these law enforcement, people whether it's prosecutors or
18:20
Speaker 4: cops in some, cases or whatever it, is that they
18:23
Speaker 4: can sleep at night knowing that they're locking up the wrong,
18:26
Speaker 4: guy and especially in a case like, this and it's
18:29
Speaker 4: just a tragedy that you see here and. Go it
18:32
Speaker 4: could have been. Prevented it didn't have to. Happen none
18:34
Speaker 4: has had to. Happen they had the. GUY i, mean
18:37
Speaker 4: it wasn't like a big. Mystery they had the. GUYS i,
18:39
Speaker 4: MEAN i know you must have had, well you had
18:40
Speaker 4: twenty years to think about, this BUT i, mean you,
18:42
Speaker 4: know it's just it's SO i can't.
18:47
Speaker 3: You, KNOW i look at it like, this, Right i'm home.
18:50
Speaker 3: NOW i was victimized by not only the police, department
18:53
Speaker 3: but this, Guy Howard. GOMBERT i had served his prison.
18:55
Speaker 3: Time andy is serving his prison. Time, collectively it's forty
18:59
Speaker 3: one years in prison that we're doing for this guy
19:02
Speaker 3: as heinous. Individual some of these girls that he did
19:06
Speaker 3: this too with my. FRIENDS i don't know everybody that
19:08
Speaker 3: he did this, tool but some of them were my.
19:10
Speaker 3: Friends so we knew these girls growing. Up and to
19:13
Speaker 3: find out years later that this is what he. Did Even,
19:17
Speaker 3: JOSETTE i was friends with the. SISTERS i was friends
19:18
Speaker 3: with the. Family i'm at odds with the family because
19:23
Speaker 3: they were misled for so many. YEARS i have such
19:25
Speaker 3: sympathy for, them but you, KNOW i feel horrible that
19:27
Speaker 3: they feel a certain sort of. Way but you, know
19:29
Speaker 3: in certain, cases you know that some families don't accept
19:32
Speaker 3: it as easily as, others and some people want to
19:35
Speaker 3: know if some people don't.
19:36
Speaker 4: Well because let's think about it, too psychologically, speaking it's
19:39
Speaker 4: another terrible shock to them to find out that the
19:44
Speaker 4: person that they thought was the real perpetrator actually, wasn't
19:49
Speaker 4: and that all these years the real guy had been
19:53
Speaker 4: allowed to roam the streets and to pray on other.
19:56
Speaker 4: People so that's got to be another thing to have
19:58
Speaker 4: already gone through unbelievably terrifying traumatic experience and then have
20:03
Speaker 4: to process. THAT i could see where there there could
20:06
Speaker 4: just be a breakdown and they could be. Everybody it's
20:07
Speaker 4: hard for them TO i, MEAN i, LOOK i could
20:09
Speaker 4: SEE i can understand. It, INTELLECTUALLY i can never understand
20:12
Speaker 4: one that's ever not been through it could possibly really understand.
20:15
Speaker 4: It everything went wrong in your case typical of many wrongful.
20:32
Speaker 4: Convictions you had an incompetent defense. Attorney you had incentivized
20:37
Speaker 4: witnesses who lied on the, stand incentivized in a lot of, ways,
20:41
Speaker 4: Right because they were being literally given the carrot and the.
20:44
Speaker 4: Stick they were either being paid off or beaten up
20:47
Speaker 4: or threatened with being charged with. Murder that's a pretty strong. Incentive.
20:51
Speaker 4: Right so you got convicted in a separate trial from. Kreeback,
20:55
Speaker 4: right you both got. Convicted.
20:56
Speaker 3: Right krevac signed a nine page false confession after he
21:00
Speaker 3: was given a light detective test by the same Individual
21:04
Speaker 3: Daniel steeveers that Gave jeffrey Test vic his lightest detective
21:08
Speaker 3: test preceding his false, confession which later was proven false
21:12
Speaker 3: BECAUSE dna proved Established and.
21:14
Speaker 4: Let me just say for the audience in case some
21:16
Speaker 4: people haven't Heard jeffries' story on wrongful. Conviction jeffreys a
21:19
Speaker 4: guy who was wrongfully convicted at sixteen years old of
21:22
Speaker 4: rape and murdering a fifteen year old, girl and THE
21:25
Speaker 4: dna proved from the outset that he hadn't done. It
21:28
Speaker 4: and then on the back, end when he was finally
21:31
Speaker 4: released sixteen years, later A dna actually identified the real
21:34
Speaker 4: killer who. Confessed and we know that the guy that
21:37
Speaker 4: you're referring to now.
21:38
Speaker 3: Is the detective that took his false, confession gave him
21:42
Speaker 3: several cups of coffee had him under the table in
21:45
Speaker 3: a fetal. Position prior to given a, statement he gave
21:49
Speaker 3: my co Defendant Andrew, kreevack a lie detective test preceding
21:52
Speaker 3: his false.
21:52
Speaker 4: Confession the ironically about a live detective test is that
21:56
Speaker 4: the detective is allowed to lie about the lie detective.
21:58
Speaker 4: Test we should be given the fucking lie to tech
22:00
Speaker 4: a test to the. DETECTIVE i, mean it's it's, funny
22:03
Speaker 4: but it's. Not it's so weird to think that that
22:07
Speaker 4: they can lie in the process of trying to get
22:10
Speaker 4: you to confess to a. Crime they can lie to anything.
22:12
Speaker 4: Want they could say we got your, fingerprints they could
22:13
Speaker 4: say we have. Witnesses they could say we got blood
22:15
Speaker 4: OR dna or, this or you the light of technests you.
22:18
Speaker 4: Failed they say whatever you. Want and we know that
22:20
Speaker 4: in certain cases they've even been, able especially with a
22:23
Speaker 4: teenager which you, were Which jeffrey, Was they've been able
22:26
Speaker 4: in certain cases to convince people that they actually did
22:28
Speaker 4: do the crime that they didn't do. Right and so
22:31
Speaker 4: false confessions are really common in.
22:35
Speaker 3: Cases problematic, THOUGH i, mean of those cases that have
22:39
Speaker 3: been ESTABLISHED dna proof actually innocent involved some sort of.
22:44
Speaker 3: Confession one to, add of every four people that goes
22:47
Speaker 3: in the police department that says they did, it we
22:50
Speaker 3: have to assume they didn't do. It we have to
22:52
Speaker 3: look at it, closer because with that kind of, statistics
22:56
Speaker 3: that's demonstrating a tremendous flaw in the criminal justice. System
23:00
Speaker 3: so there has to be some sort of way to
23:02
Speaker 3: corroborate these. Things these things should be taped from the
23:04
Speaker 3: beginning to the, end not before the guy starts, confessing
23:08
Speaker 3: but from the minute they bringing a suspect into a
23:10
Speaker 3: police department for an, interrogation they should turn on a.
23:13
Speaker 3: Camera they should put a tape recorder. There and if
23:16
Speaker 3: he's going to say, anything everything that he, says let's be,
23:19
Speaker 3: recorded his, denials his, emissions. Everything let's just not start
23:22
Speaker 3: the tape record and when he starts confessing and then
23:24
Speaker 3: shut it off when you got him to sign a.
23:26
Speaker 4: Paper, right it's not okay to have this movie be
23:29
Speaker 4: edited by the detectives who are, conducted which is basically what. Happens,
23:33
Speaker 4: Right they get to choose and selectively show the parts
23:36
Speaker 4: that they want to build their. Case by the, way
23:39
Speaker 4: the good news is that this Week New York state
23:42
Speaker 4: passed the law that we've been fighting for so At
23:45
Speaker 4: The Ends project and other organizations been fighting for it
23:47
Speaker 4: for so many, years where now videotaping of interrogations is co.
23:50
Speaker 4: Mandatory AND i think that we have to pay respect
23:53
Speaker 4: to you and others who have gone through this because
23:57
Speaker 4: without you being out, there as you have done on many,
23:59
Speaker 4: occasions your story that probably wouldn't have gone through because
24:03
Speaker 4: the human story is what REALLY i think in many
24:06
Speaker 4: cases gets legislators to understand that these are changes that
24:10
Speaker 4: need to be made because these are things that happen
24:12
Speaker 4: to real, people, right real people like. YOU i want
24:15
Speaker 4: to get to the prison experience because it's so hard
24:21
Speaker 4: to even imagine what it would have been like for
24:25
Speaker 4: you as a teenager to be thrown into the situation
24:28
Speaker 4: where you're going to a maximum security prison as a
24:32
Speaker 4: convicted rapist and murderer of a twelve year old. Girl,
24:36
Speaker 4: yeah you're a, big, strong tough, guy but still you're
24:40
Speaker 4: in a place that's they eat people alive in, there
24:43
Speaker 4: especially people who are convicted of these type of. Crimes
24:47
Speaker 4: how did you deal with? THIS i, mean how could
24:50
Speaker 4: anybody deal with? That how do you? Hear? Like? HOW i,
24:53
Speaker 4: mean it's.
24:54
Speaker 3: Amazing survival is man's number one. INSTINCT i got to,
24:58
Speaker 3: PRISON i ain't gonna. LIE i was THAT i didn't
25:01
Speaker 3: know WHAT i was. Entering SO i arrived at The
25:03
Speaker 3: Schwungak Correctional, facility which serious things happen, there but it
25:07
Speaker 3: is so if they're compared to most, prisons except but
25:10
Speaker 3: for the fact they sent me INTO b, one which
25:13
Speaker 3: was housing for all the most dangerous people in the
25:16
Speaker 3: state that they have to keep a close eye. On
25:18
Speaker 3: so WHEN i arrived to, PRISON i didn't readily admit
25:22
Speaker 3: WHAT i was in prison. For when guys asked, ME
25:24
Speaker 3: i just blew it. Off, robbery murdered, this that and
25:27
Speaker 3: the other, thing AND i just started to go with the.
25:29
Speaker 3: Flow when guys started to catch window WHAT i was
25:32
Speaker 3: in jail, for then problems started to. Happen So i'm
25:36
Speaker 3: in a fight or a death. Situation what AM i gonna?
25:39
Speaker 3: Do there was. PRESSURE i politicked. MOSTLY i tried to
25:43
Speaker 3: avoid violence WHENEVER i, could and EVENTUALLY i, got you,
25:48
Speaker 3: know the attention to certain. Guys they saw my paperwork
25:50
Speaker 3: and they gave me a, shot and SO i started
25:52
Speaker 3: helping other guys. Out and in prison it's you, know there's,
25:56
Speaker 3: bloods there's God, bodies which is the five percenters, most
26:00
Speaker 3: there's The, Italians Latin, Kings there's all different sorts of.
26:04
Speaker 3: Sex SO i found my way in with, everybody AND
26:08
Speaker 3: i showed my paperwork and guys started sticking up for.
26:10
Speaker 3: Me and Plus i'm a big, guy so guys didn't
26:13
Speaker 3: want to just straight out, say you, KNOW i had
26:16
Speaker 3: to pay money or, this that and the other. Thing
26:17
Speaker 3: as opposed to my co defended who was recently cut
26:20
Speaker 3: two weeks. AGO i mean they cut him in the.
26:22
Speaker 3: Face the guards is pressing up on, Them they're waving
26:24
Speaker 3: the newspaper. Around he lost a recent, appeal and they're
26:27
Speaker 3: telling all the, inmates you know what he's in jail.
26:29
Speaker 3: FOR i was able to politic my way through it
26:33
Speaker 3: was it always a. Joy NOW i had, trouble and
26:36
Speaker 3: there was certain places where the guards were worse than
26:38
Speaker 3: the inmates.
26:39
Speaker 4: Because you were transferred around to different.
26:41
Speaker 3: Places, yeah and certain guards have morals and ethics that
26:44
Speaker 3: they think is the ethical duty to see to it
26:47
Speaker 3: that that we do hard time.
26:48
Speaker 4: Right and so obviously it is the hardest imaginable type
26:53
Speaker 4: of time because in this country we don't focus on
26:56
Speaker 4: rehabilitation as Other western countries do we focus on, punished
27:00
Speaker 4: WHICH i think is backwards. Too except in the maybe
27:02
Speaker 4: the most extreme, cases we could have a we could
27:05
Speaker 4: have an intelligent discussion about. That but and in, fact
27:08
Speaker 4: yours was an extreme case except you were. Innocent but
27:12
Speaker 4: that being, SAID i don't believe that senencing somebody twenty
27:15
Speaker 4: five years life in. Prison, okay we can say maybe
27:17
Speaker 4: that's an appropriate, sentence maybe it should be, longer maybe
27:19
Speaker 4: it should be, Shorter but sentencing them to be, tortured
27:22
Speaker 4: that's not what we do In. America that's not. Appropriate
27:25
Speaker 4: and the fact is that the way we treat people
27:28
Speaker 4: in our prison system effectively is. Torture AND i want
27:31
Speaker 4: to talk about privac because his story deserves to be
27:35
Speaker 4: heard and people need to get. Involved maybe they could
27:37
Speaker 4: write to, him if you tell people if he's interested
27:39
Speaker 4: in having, RIGHT.
27:39
Speaker 3: I always advocate for people to write to. Them from
27:42
Speaker 3: time to, TIME i put his address on the. INTERNET
27:45
Speaker 3: i send them. PICTURES i try to visit them WHEN i.
27:47
Speaker 3: Can it breaks my heart to see. HIM i bring
27:50
Speaker 3: him in high Spiritcy he's got a great. Team Professor Riddel,
27:53
Speaker 3: Bernard Jeffrey deskovic is behind. Him so he's got the
27:56
Speaker 3: support of our, community the innocence, community and we want
27:59
Speaker 3: to see him. Out we got his case into the
28:02
Speaker 3: appellate division now and we're waiting for a decision whether
28:04
Speaker 3: he can leave to. Appeal BECAUSE i was, acquitted so
28:09
Speaker 3: based on the same, proof which consists of some new,
28:11
Speaker 3: proof he should be entitled to the same shot THAT
28:14
Speaker 3: i was recently.
28:15
Speaker 4: Given it's so, strange, Right so you've been, acquitted the
28:18
Speaker 4: actual perpetrator has been, identified, arrested, convicted, Right so what
28:24
Speaker 4: possible reason could they have to Hold AND i don't
28:26
Speaker 4: know as much about his CASE i do about.
28:28
Speaker 3: Yours, Right, well it's the, same it's pretty much the,
28:30
Speaker 3: same except he's got a CONFESSION i do, not the false.
28:33
Speaker 3: CONFESSION i do. Not it's the political climate in the. COMMUNITY.
28:37
Speaker 3: A they place their own interest above the interest of,
28:40
Speaker 3: justice so if something, happens if their colleague does something,
28:42
Speaker 3: wrong they cover up for. IT. B they're worried about paying.
28:46
Speaker 3: Compensation the county was already sued By, Jeff they're being
28:50
Speaker 3: sued by other people right now to other. Cases so
28:54
Speaker 3: the local government wants to keep this swept under the
28:56
Speaker 3: rug for as long as. Possible For, however means they.
28:59
Speaker 3: Can so we're moving. Forward and if they don't want
29:02
Speaker 3: to accept, it if The putnam DA's office don't want
29:04
Speaker 3: to accept, It andy's actually, innocent notwithstanding my induction into
29:08
Speaker 3: The National registry Of Janna, rees notwithstanding the fact that
29:13
Speaker 3: the wrongful conviction community accepts me as it being actually.
29:16
Speaker 3: Innocent or we're just going to fight them too to
29:18
Speaker 3: nail and if they have to roll over and we
29:21
Speaker 3: just have to just keep on marching, through that's what's
29:23
Speaker 3: going to, happen Because i'm not going to tolerate these.
29:26
Speaker 3: People all they want to do is protect their own.
29:28
Speaker 3: Interests this isn't just they should accept. Responsibility they have their.
29:33
Speaker 4: Killer they have their, guy they know who it.
29:35
Speaker 3: Is THERE'S dna, proof there's a.
29:37
Speaker 4: Confession so what is Now Anthony and they're, thinking, now,
29:41
Speaker 4: well maybe he had something to do with. It, ALSO i,
29:43
Speaker 4: mean it doesn't make any. Sense this one is exactly a.
29:47
Speaker 4: MATCH i mean you don't have to be a skilled
29:50
Speaker 4: sleuth or detective Or kojak or whatever to figure this one, out.
29:54
Speaker 4: RIGHT i mean everything that you said leading up to
29:56
Speaker 4: this point about how all the other crimes, matched and
29:59
Speaker 4: THE dna and and Everything it's, like obviously it was
30:02
Speaker 4: this Sick Bastard, gombert right Who Howard gombri who did,
30:06
Speaker 4: It and so the fact that you're your co defendant
30:10
Speaker 4: is still rotting and being horribly abused and caught and
30:13
Speaker 4: everything else in. Prisons to keep everybody up at night
30:16
Speaker 4: until this guy is, free it doesn't make any logical.
30:19
Speaker 3: Sense AND i agree with, you AND i just want
30:21
Speaker 3: to build a little bit. More we extended the islive
30:23
Speaker 3: branch to the District attorney's. Office the prior district, Attorney Adam,
30:27
Speaker 3: levy he actually contacted The Attorney general's office to reinvestigate
30:32
Speaker 3: our case and was prepared to vacate my judgment in
30:35
Speaker 3: paperwork that he and my attorneys had drafted together with
30:39
Speaker 3: The Attorney general, involved based on proof that this guy
30:42
Speaker 3: costa local, horse perjured, testimony and based on proof That
30:46
Speaker 3: Howard gombert is the actual. Perpetrator but he lost the
30:49
Speaker 3: election to this new, Guy Bob, tendy who is in
30:51
Speaker 3: bed with The Putnam County, sheriff that's the elected official
30:55
Speaker 3: down there. Now so instead of continuing to accept this
30:59
Speaker 3: out of we could work. Together we could solve the.
31:02
Speaker 3: Crime you could be heroes by being accountable and, responsible
31:06
Speaker 3: and we're not going to forgive my language shit on.
31:08
Speaker 3: You when you let us. Out we're gonna big you
31:10
Speaker 3: up and we're going to try and help you look
31:12
Speaker 3: good and as long as you do the right thing for.
31:14
Speaker 3: Us he said to The Attorney, general you could Kick.
31:17
Speaker 3: ROCKS i don't need you another advocate for the, defendant
31:20
Speaker 3: and then proceeded to go through the. Trial now at this,
31:22
Speaker 3: POINT i made. BAIL i made a million dollars, bail
31:25
Speaker 3: So i'm, free But i'm on house. ARREST i had
31:28
Speaker 3: an ankle, bracelet And i'm sitting there And i'm still
31:30
Speaker 3: waiting to find out if this guy really wants to
31:32
Speaker 3: take a trial or. Not and he's all. In so
31:35
Speaker 3: he hires this, Guy Larry, glasser who worked on The
31:37
Speaker 3: Plausa gobera's, case the football. Star i'm not going to
31:41
Speaker 3: comment on WHAT i think of. Him so he comes.
31:43
Speaker 3: In he's all balls to the, wall hating us and
31:45
Speaker 3: saying all the foulest things about us and that we're
31:48
Speaker 3: definitely did it and there's no possibility we're, innocent and
31:51
Speaker 3: proceeds to go to. Trial NOW i go through the third.
31:54
Speaker 3: Trial this is the third TIME i got two. Reversals
31:56
Speaker 3: the first time was the conflict interest from the. Attorney
31:58
Speaker 3: in twy, eleven two thousand and, six The court Of
32:00
Speaker 3: appeals granted me and a new trial based on proof
32:03
Speaker 3: of The Howard gombert that it was suppressed from the retrial.
32:06
Speaker 3: Judge So i'm going to trial and we pick a
32:10
Speaker 3: jury and they're being horrible about. It and at the
32:12
Speaker 3: same time we did all from the other. Branch we
32:15
Speaker 3: go into the. Trial at the end of the. Trial
32:17
Speaker 3: the clusing the, TRIAL i Had Mark agniffelow who works
32:19
Speaker 3: For Ben brockman and, associates And Mark, baker who also
32:23
Speaker 3: works For Ben, brockman and he did appeal For John.
32:25
Speaker 3: Gotti great, attorneys superior. Attorneys they get the best. Hearts
32:30
Speaker 3: they came to the. Summer the whole, summer they were
32:31
Speaker 3: spending at my. House we were working a. Case we did.
32:34
Speaker 3: Everything So i'm waiting for the jury. Verdict now it
32:37
Speaker 3: was five. Hours i'm waiting for the jury, verdict AND i, think,
32:42
Speaker 3: Man i'm not going to win this BECAUSE i was
32:44
Speaker 3: beaten down my whole. Life you, KNOW i was a
32:46
Speaker 3: victim my whole. Life SO i just think that this
32:49
Speaker 3: is another motion THAT i have to go back to
32:51
Speaker 3: prison and come, back try and get it back and
32:53
Speaker 3: forth time the jury comes out with a not guilty.
32:55
Speaker 3: Verdict So i'm having an artit That jeffrey desk vickers
32:59
Speaker 3: and tears gives me a bit. Hugged i'm sitting in
33:01
Speaker 3: my heart's, pounding the lawyers are in, tears my family's in.
33:04
Speaker 3: TEARS i knew the moment that that was gonna. Happen
33:07
Speaker 3: the judge looked when he said he was about to
33:09
Speaker 3: read the. Verdict he looked towards the victim's family and,
33:13
Speaker 3: AGAIN i have great sympathy for, him and he, said
33:16
Speaker 3: there'll be no outburst in his. Court and this is
33:18
Speaker 3: before the jury guy stood. Up and this was like
33:20
Speaker 3: two three seconds, BEFORE i. Said when he looked over
33:23
Speaker 3: there and didn't look at, US i KNEW i was coming.
33:25
Speaker 3: Home AND i came home and it was the greatest
33:28
Speaker 3: day of my. LIFE i, MEAN i. WAS i lost
33:30
Speaker 3: bail during the period of TIME i went back to
33:33
Speaker 3: the jail for whatever. Reason but that, day that was
33:36
Speaker 3: the day THAT i uh THAT i made it home
33:39
Speaker 3: AND i was finally free of.
33:40
Speaker 4: This you're finally. Free it's bittersweet because you know as
33:50
Speaker 4: well as anybody that this poor Guy Andrew kreeback is
33:53
Speaker 4: as innocent as you. Are AND i know you're not
33:56
Speaker 4: gonna really BECAUSE i know the type of person that you.
33:58
Speaker 4: Are you're not really going to be able to experience
34:00
Speaker 4: the joy that you deserve until he's home as. Well
34:04
Speaker 4: but what was that like after you spent more than
34:08
Speaker 4: half your life in? Prison? Right eighteen years? Old when
34:11
Speaker 4: you went in thirty eight thirty, nine when you came.
34:13
Speaker 3: OUT i was forty forty twenty years.
34:16
Speaker 4: Right because the trial proceedings and everything. Else by the
34:18
Speaker 4: time you actually went to, prison you were, twenty, right
34:20
Speaker 4: arrested when you're. Eighteen you spent more than half your
34:23
Speaker 4: life in the, system and you come, Out and what
34:26
Speaker 4: is that?
34:26
Speaker 3: Like you walk?
34:27
Speaker 4: Out what does fresh air smell like when you have?
34:30
Speaker 4: Anxianity what does freedom feel? Like where do you? Go
34:34
Speaker 4: what was your first? Instinct did you want a? Milkshake
34:36
Speaker 4: what did you?
34:37
Speaker 3: Do you? KNOW i, MEAN i wanted what everybody else,
34:40
Speaker 3: wanted but it really wanted to spend time with my.
34:42
Speaker 3: Family there was a lot of shock because prison is
34:45
Speaker 3: drabb your bland colors and just, everything LIKE i went
34:49
Speaker 3: to bed and bath AND i just looked at the
34:51
Speaker 3: wall of toothpaste in, commissary you got three choices of.
34:53
Speaker 3: Toothpaste So i'm looking at the toothpaste on a, wall
34:56
Speaker 3: like what AM i? Doing how AM i supposed to make?
34:58
Speaker 3: Choices and so even just going to a gas station
35:01
Speaker 3: and being able to buy a, soda or seeing females
35:05
Speaker 3: walk around like in, prison you're around. MEN i mean
35:07
Speaker 3: they got some women. Guards but being able to talk to,
35:11
Speaker 3: girls to speak to the opposite, sex to be able
35:14
Speaker 3: to not be wearing state, greens not being barked at,
35:18
Speaker 3: orders you. Know but the, first the first most important
35:22
Speaker 3: thing THAT i found coming home was just being able
35:24
Speaker 3: to be with my family and appreciate the love and
35:27
Speaker 3: respect that they show me and give back and have
35:30
Speaker 3: a good, time have a good. Meal we went To Red.
35:32
Speaker 3: Lobster what did you? HAVE i had the ultimate. FEAST
35:36
Speaker 3: i just went every day And i've been having The
35:38
Speaker 3: ultimate feast Since i've been. Home i'm on diet, now
35:41
Speaker 3: no carbs at, all so no more. BREAD i went
35:44
Speaker 3: from two forty to two seventy five and like six.
35:47
Speaker 4: Months, well AND i want to go back to that
35:48
Speaker 4: because when we were together and we were hanging out
35:51
Speaker 4: In miami. Recently, coincidentally we ended up in the same.
35:53
Speaker 4: City we were having some. Dinner we're talking and among
35:56
Speaker 4: all the other horrible things about being in, prison AND
36:00
Speaker 4: i know you were just talking about the, food AND
36:01
Speaker 4: i know you don't get a, vegetable you don't get a,
36:03
Speaker 4: fruit you get basically sloping. There it really, IS i, mean,
36:07
Speaker 4: bland just terrible. Food some of it's. ROTTEN i, mean
36:10
Speaker 4: we know all those. Stories but the other thing that's
36:12
Speaker 4: unique to your. Case it makes me really amazed that
36:16
Speaker 4: you're walking around, upright is the idea that you're so
36:20
Speaker 4: big and the beds are too.
36:21
Speaker 3: Small oh, yeah, mine there's no bed that my feet
36:24
Speaker 3: didn't hang off fun OR i had to crunch up.
36:26
Speaker 4: SOMEHOW i, mean IT'S i.
36:29
Speaker 3: CAN'T i had back problems until the DAY i came.
36:32
Speaker 3: Home WHEN i came, home my back poms went straight.
36:34
Speaker 1: Away is not that.
36:35
Speaker 3: AMAZING i had disc up and down my back and
36:38
Speaker 3: NOW i haven't had one disc, pain one sharp pain
36:41
Speaker 3: Since i've been, home And i've been working. Out in,
36:44
Speaker 3: prison you live on a mat like it's one inch,
36:46
Speaker 3: thick and it's like you're living on a piece of.
36:48
Speaker 3: Steel and like you, said sometimes the walls don't fit
36:52
Speaker 3: a guy six,' six they fit a guy maybe, Six
36:54
Speaker 3: feet so you have to crunch up and you, have to,
36:56
Speaker 3: you know find. A way i.
36:59
Speaker 4: Slept, TOIME yeah i mean you got to just wake
37:02
Speaker 4: up with cramps in places that they don't even know,
37:04
Speaker 4: you HAVE places i can't. Even imagine ON top i
37:07
Speaker 4: SAID as i, TALK about, i mean on top of,
37:09
Speaker 4: the loneliness, the violence the lack of appropriate, physical contact all,
37:15
Speaker 4: of it it just adds up to just such a.
37:17
Speaker 4: Total NIGHTMARE but i want to go back to prison for.
37:19
Speaker 4: A second was there a worst time and was there?
37:23
Speaker 4: Anything positive was there one moment that you could. Think
37:25
Speaker 4: back was there a connection you made with somebody on.
37:27
Speaker 4: The inside was there some moment?
37:29
Speaker 3: Of HOPE was i mean there was BROTHERHOOD when i Was.
37:34
Speaker 3: In attica we were, living good we, were cooking we,
37:37
Speaker 3: had pans everybody. Had TVs there was a commaderat in
37:41
Speaker 3: the cell block where there was. No problem everybody KNEW
37:44
Speaker 3: who i was and everybody, respected me and there was
37:46
Speaker 3: a brotherhood. Between us but there was times where prison
37:49
Speaker 3: guards would come to myself because they heard out about
37:53
Speaker 3: antid dipipples in their jail and they decided to break
37:56
Speaker 3: on my things and threaten me, with that AND so
37:58
Speaker 3: i experienced that in certain Pay. Like sullivan it's a
38:01
Speaker 3: tough prison when you have the guards going against you
38:05
Speaker 3: because they are the biggest gang in. The prison when
38:08
Speaker 3: you have the guards going, against you you. Can't win
38:11
Speaker 3: so you have to walk on eggshells because anything. You
38:13
Speaker 3: do if you decide, One day i'm gonna fight the
38:16
Speaker 3: GUARDS because i don't like the pressure that they're putting,
38:18
Speaker 3: on me you're gonna get. More time they're gonna send you.
38:21
Speaker 3: To prison inside, of prison you're gonna go to, the
38:23
Speaker 3: box and then you're gonna get one to three or seven.
38:26
Speaker 3: More Years so i'm thinking to myself and to these
38:29
Speaker 3: TIMES that i was pressured that my family. Loves me
38:32
Speaker 3: they invested three million Dollars since i've been in costwrated
38:35
Speaker 3: three million dollars into my. CRIMINAL defense i would not
38:38
Speaker 3: be RESPECTFUL if i got caught up in some other
38:41
Speaker 3: thing where they get me OFF or i want to
38:44
Speaker 3: say the. Word off they prove them actually innocent for
38:46
Speaker 3: this CRIME and i do something now STUPID that i can't.
38:49
Speaker 3: Come home so at CERTAIN times i stayed in. MY
38:52
Speaker 3: cell i bit my FIST and i Just said i'm gonna.
38:54
Speaker 3: Eat this AND luckily i didn't come across any SITUATION
38:59
Speaker 3: where i had to do. More time but there were
39:00
Speaker 3: TIMES that i want to come out myself and. HURT
39:03
Speaker 3: something i just made sure those days were the DAYS
39:06
Speaker 3: that i want to lock IN because i love, MY
39:08
Speaker 3: family i. LOVE myself i want to.
39:10
Speaker 4: Go home is there a moment when you think back
39:13
Speaker 4: where you experienced any type of. POSITIVE thing, i mean
39:18
Speaker 4: there's a lot.
39:18
Speaker 3: Of ups. In prison you, become bipolar so you would have,
39:22
Speaker 3: severe depression which even if you're not bipolar as, a
39:26
Speaker 3: person you will experience some sort. Of it so there'll
39:29
Speaker 3: be great downs when you lose your APPEALS and i
39:32
Speaker 3: peeled more than. Twenty times when you lose your appeals
39:35
Speaker 3: and you have to go to the. Next step but
39:37
Speaker 3: then there's. Great hope if you know you're innocent and you're,
39:40
Speaker 3: getting closer you get, this high this you, floric High
39:43
Speaker 3: like i'm. Right there and then when, you win even
39:47
Speaker 3: if you're still, in prison when you just win leave.
39:49
Speaker 3: To appeal you don't even get the right, to appeal
39:51
Speaker 3: that brings. You up when certain people, write you like
39:54
Speaker 3: ex girlfriends or. Loved ones the girls want to come.
39:56
Speaker 3: See you and you've been down for, so long ups,
40:00
Speaker 3: in prison you live, in life so you just can't
40:02
Speaker 3: walk around for twenty years saying this is an. Awful
40:05
Speaker 3: experience i'm gonna, Hate myself i'm gonna hate everything. In
40:07
Speaker 3: it you got to try to make the most of what,
40:09
Speaker 3: you got and THAT'S what.
40:10
Speaker 4: I did that's a very, spiritual approach, very evolved, AND
40:14
Speaker 4: really i think for those of us who hear, you
40:17
Speaker 4: speak it's. Absolutely REMARKABLE and i think That the exoneries
40:23
Speaker 4: as a whole embody. That Attitude and i've heard some
40:27
Speaker 4: of the guys say and women say that for the
40:29
Speaker 4: people who weren't able to get to that, spiritual place
40:32
Speaker 4: if you want to, call, it that they're still stuck
40:35
Speaker 4: in there because they sort of gave. Up hope and,
40:38
Speaker 4: for you you. Kept fighting in a. Certain sense you.
40:40
Speaker 4: Were lucky, at me you can't call, yourself lucky but
40:41
Speaker 4: it WAS fortunately i.
40:43
Speaker 3: Had family, with money AND then i also put, in
40:46
Speaker 3: WORK so i was in the trenches with them the.
40:48
Speaker 4: Whole way when you, CAME out i almost want to trace.
40:51
Speaker 4: Those steps you, come out, you're euphoric you go into
40:55
Speaker 4: a car with. Your family, everyone's ecstatic so happy to
40:59
Speaker 4: have you back because it's a burden on the family
41:01
Speaker 4: too when someone's. Wrongfully convicted but it drags, everybody down
41:04
Speaker 4: anybody who, loves you, of, Course right so then do you?
41:08
Speaker 4: Drive away where'd you? Go first you went. HOME first
41:11
Speaker 4: i really.
41:11
Speaker 3: Didn't have an idea what we wanted. To Do so jeff,
41:14
Speaker 3: was there AND so i wanted to. Go eat nobody
41:17
Speaker 3: knew where we wanted to. Go eat there was about
41:18
Speaker 3: twenty of us that were there. That day some people
41:21
Speaker 3: didn't even think there was going to be a verdict
41:23
Speaker 3: that day and, went home one of my attorneys almost
41:25
Speaker 3: crashing on the side of. The road so, they said,
41:27
Speaker 3: you know what do you want. To Do so, jeff's
41:28
Speaker 3: like let's Go To. RED lobster i have waited to
41:30
Speaker 3: Go To red loopster for, so LONG so i just
41:32
Speaker 3: went on his suggestion and it. Was great we went,
41:35
Speaker 3: over there we had drinks and THEN while i. Was
41:37
Speaker 3: there this was one of the. Remarkable things was one
41:40
Speaker 3: of the guards that was taking me to trial during
41:43
Speaker 3: the first trial in ninety seven. Was there he's not a,
41:45
Speaker 3: guard anymore a Guy Named Orphuser. San sandria he came up,
41:49
Speaker 3: to me and, HE'S like i, want to, you know just.
41:52
Speaker 3: CONGRATULATE you i didn't know who, he was and This
41:54
Speaker 3: is i'm just out a hot hour and a half
41:57
Speaker 3: and he's shaking. My Head so, i'm like. Thank you you, Don't, remember,
42:00
Speaker 3: YEAH no i was taking you to the trial. BACK
42:02
Speaker 3: then i thought something was wrong. Back then let me
42:04
Speaker 3: buy you. A beer so one of, the guards one
42:06
Speaker 3: of the jailers that was taking me to my, original
42:08
Speaker 3: trial who felt something, was off gave me, a, big
42:11
Speaker 3: tall blue moved with a little orange, in IT and
42:14
Speaker 3: i bang that back and it was just. An. Experience
42:17
Speaker 3: man i'm very thankful.
42:18
Speaker 4: FOR him i trying to imagine how good lobster tastes
42:22
Speaker 4: after twenty years of. Terrible food how good does beer
42:26
Speaker 4: taste after twenty years of? No, Beer, so anthony there's
42:28
Speaker 4: a rather bizarre aspect of your post exoneration life that
42:33
Speaker 4: really just boggles. My mind in spite of all the
42:37
Speaker 4: other things you've been through which are, so terrible now
42:39
Speaker 4: there's another indignity that the state is throwing at you
42:42
Speaker 4: and you basically you can't get a. Driver's license is, that?
42:45
Speaker 3: Right RIGHT so i Go to Department Of motor vehicles
42:48
Speaker 3: and they, tell me you got. Outstanding TICKETS so i
42:51
Speaker 3: went to the town courthouse to go pay the. Tickets
42:54
Speaker 3: off so they're telling me these tickets amount to ten
42:56
Speaker 3: points on. My license these are tickets from. Ninety five
43:00
Speaker 3: the signal. Was speeding and, You know i'm not DEBATING
43:03
Speaker 3: whether i did these things. Or not, YOU know i
43:05
Speaker 3: was a dumb thinker as. A youth but at, this
43:07
Speaker 3: POINT now i come home, twenty years you figure it will.
43:10
Speaker 3: Be resolved and so now they're telling ME that i
43:13
Speaker 3: may have another additional year of. Suspended license, that's like,
43:16
Speaker 3: all right you were wrongfully convicted for, twenty years but
43:19
Speaker 3: here a matter, of fact on TOP of i have
43:21
Speaker 3: an additional year without a license to extend your sentence.
43:24
Speaker 4: OR whatever, i mean. It's crazy that's the statute of
43:27
Speaker 4: limitations that almost all crimes. EXCEPT murder i think rape is.
43:30
Speaker 4: TEN years i.
43:30
Speaker 3: Don't think traffic violations got statue. Of limitations it's, that.
43:34
Speaker 4: Believable right. IT'S unbelievable i mean that you're, coming on you're,
43:37
Speaker 4: going Wait but i've been locked up for. Twenty days,
43:39
Speaker 4: they like that's. All right it's like saying, to you,
43:40
Speaker 4: You know i'm don't care if the door, is locked you're, still,
43:42
Speaker 4: LATE right, i, mean like what are you. Talking about
43:45
Speaker 4: IT'S just, i mean at a, certain point the bureaucracy
43:49
Speaker 4: should grow a heart, And, say okay you, Know what
43:52
Speaker 4: we're going to make a little exception here for. This, Guy,
43:54
Speaker 4: okay so but that's not. The case so it must
43:57
Speaker 4: be an. Unbelievable feeling it's a lot of.
44:00
Speaker 3: Culture Shock so i'm. Me in i'm joining. My life
44:03
Speaker 3: at the, same TIME when i look back, ON it
44:05
Speaker 3: i feel guilty because there's so many people that deserve
44:08
Speaker 3: that that are still behind BARS that i haven't made.
44:11
Speaker 3: It home at the, SAME time i feel HAPPY and
44:14
Speaker 3: i enjoy the Things that i'm, enjoying NOW and i
44:17
Speaker 3: still got a lot more to Go because i'm still
44:19
Speaker 3: trying to. REINTEGRATE myself i always look BACK and, i
44:22
Speaker 3: SAY if i could just help, one person one person
44:25
Speaker 3: achieve their freedom that don't deserve to be. In prison
44:29
Speaker 3: in the back of, My mind i'm always thinking, about
44:31
Speaker 3: People and i'm sure you get it to, you know everybody,
44:34
Speaker 3: needs HELP and, I wish I wish i could. HELP
44:36
Speaker 3: everybody i just wish anybody that could BE reached i,
44:38
Speaker 3: could reach, you know im practical to think that you can.
44:41
Speaker 3: Do that but if you can help one person or,
44:44
Speaker 3: TWO people i think that benefits society as.
44:47
Speaker 4: A whole and that's an. Incredible message AND certainly i
44:50
Speaker 4: try to spend my days try to figure out, exactly,
44:54
Speaker 4: that right HOW can i get One more Anthony de,
44:58
Speaker 4: pippo out because it's just, an incredible incredible feeling to see,
45:05
Speaker 4: that transformation to see justice served after all, these years
45:10
Speaker 4: to see somebody like you get their life back. On track,
45:13
Speaker 4: YOU know i call it. SELFISH altruism i do it
45:15
Speaker 4: because it makes me. FEEL good i got.
45:17
Speaker 3: A great passion, for it and, you know it's. Very
45:19
Speaker 3: admirable the point you are in, your career you don't
45:22
Speaker 3: need to be, doing this but it's something that you
45:24
Speaker 3: do out of love and respect and trying to give
45:27
Speaker 3: back and find a solution to. A problem it's. VERY
45:30
Speaker 3: admirable i think your dad was involved, in this right
45:32
Speaker 3: With the. Innis's, project well.
45:34
Speaker 4: My dad was a supporter Of the. Innists project and,
45:36
Speaker 4: my dad who was my hero he. Still is he
45:39
Speaker 4: really instilled in my BROTHER and i a sense of
45:41
Speaker 4: right and wrong and an idea that what you do
45:45
Speaker 4: to make the world a better place defines you as,
45:47
Speaker 4: a person not what. You accomplish he, told us do
45:50
Speaker 4: whatever you want, to do try to be the best,
45:52
Speaker 4: at it but just make the world a. Better place,
45:54
Speaker 4: he goes that's the meaning. Of SUCCESS and i wanted
45:56
Speaker 4: to be a success in his EYES because i looked
45:58
Speaker 4: up to him. SO much i definitely credit him for
46:01
Speaker 4: giving me, this passion and he was. His, Firm actually
46:05
Speaker 4: scadden is a huge supporter Of the, inniss project donates
46:08
Speaker 4: thousands of pro, bono hours has been involved in some
46:11
Speaker 4: very important exonerations and they're, all IMPORTANT but i mean
46:14
Speaker 4: some that have actually driven, change systemically and so it's
46:17
Speaker 4: really full circle to be able to work in, this
46:21
Speaker 4: field especially with his spirit hanging over. And guiding it's,
46:26
Speaker 4: you know it's funny YOU said i don't need to be.
46:28
Speaker 4: DOING it i do need to be. DOING it, i
46:30
Speaker 4: mean this IS what i need to. Be doing this
46:31
Speaker 4: Is what i'm. Here For and i'm very lucky in
46:35
Speaker 4: a lot. Of Ways but i'm very lucky to be
46:36
Speaker 4: in a position to be able to help certain PEOPLE
46:38
Speaker 4: and i want to help as MANY as. I can
46:41
Speaker 4: and to get back, TO that i know a lot
46:43
Speaker 4: of people that are listening to you speak, right now
46:46
Speaker 4: are saying the. Same thing, they're saying HOW can? I
46:49
Speaker 4: help WHAT can? I do and let's start with the
46:52
Speaker 4: Case Of. ANDREW kreevac i mean what can? People do?
46:55
Speaker 3: All right so anybody wishing To Contact andrew kreevac may.
46:58
Speaker 4: Do So andrew kreeve please do right. TO him i
47:01
Speaker 4: know he'd love to hear. From you and it's number
47:04
Speaker 4: NINE seven a four two Three Six Wendy, correctional facility
47:08
Speaker 4: the we and de three zero Four Zero wendy Road,
47:13
Speaker 4: In Alden, new york one four zero. Zero four that's
47:17
Speaker 4: one one.
47:18
Speaker 3: Eighty seven and we'll put this address on the website
47:21
Speaker 3: for a Roll for. Conviction podcast so what can people
47:24
Speaker 3: do To Help? Andrew kreevak just offer your support and
47:28
Speaker 3: become Aware and i'll help. Raise awareness and then when
47:32
Speaker 3: his case comes up and the opposite side or the
47:35
Speaker 3: adversaries start, making comments then try to make. Comments back
47:39
Speaker 3: We Have. Attorneys forum he's being represented pro Bono By
47:44
Speaker 3: adele Bernard and Victor cepos so he's got a. Great Team,
47:48
Speaker 3: jeffrey deskovic of course we're. Behind him offer, moral support
47:51
Speaker 3: anything you, COULD do i think that will. Help us
47:54
Speaker 3: get us over the home, right NOW the da is being.
47:56
Speaker 3: Stubborn again they're placing their own interest above the interest,
48:00
Speaker 3: of justice the interest to justice for Not Only andrew kreevak,
48:03
Speaker 3: and myself but for the victims in, this matter jose
48:06
Speaker 3: at right and the, Other Girl, robin Murphy Who howard
48:09
Speaker 3: gombert also in my. View killed based ON what i told,
48:13
Speaker 3: you earlier there are ways you can help the actually.
48:15
Speaker 3: INNOCENT anyway i mean some, you know there's some places you,
48:19
Speaker 3: can donate like To The, innocence project To The Jeffrey,
48:22
Speaker 3: deskovic foundation but some people don't have the money. To
48:25
Speaker 3: donate and when you don't have the money, to donate
48:26
Speaker 3: you can always offer moral support and. Always stay it's, always.
48:29
Speaker 4: Corner and you can go to. The websites go To
48:31
Speaker 4: The Jeffrey deskovic foundation and learn about. Their work Go
48:34
Speaker 4: to innocenceproject. Dot org there's. Some instructions there are things
48:38
Speaker 4: you can do to. Get involved before, We, CLOSE anthony
48:41
Speaker 4: i always like, to ask is there anything else that
48:46
Speaker 4: you want to share with the audience from.
48:48
Speaker 3: Your, Experience well i'm trying to do my best to
48:52
Speaker 3: try to help people and trying to give back to
48:55
Speaker 3: the justice system to the wrongful. Conviction community i'm currently
49:00
Speaker 3: working With The Jeffrey deskovic foundation. Analyzing cases i'm trying
49:05
Speaker 3: to determine who we, could help. Who's reachable there's a
49:08
Speaker 3: lot of innocence people, in There but i'm trying to determine.
49:11
Speaker 3: Who's reachable at the, Same time i'm going AROUND and
49:15
Speaker 3: i encourage people to try to do the. Same thing i'm.
49:17
Speaker 3: Going around i'm. Lobbying lawmakers i'm with it can happen.
49:20
Speaker 3: To You Professor bennett gershman and you may have heard.
49:23
Speaker 3: Of him we're trying to pass a piece of legislation
49:26
Speaker 3: Creating a commission On A, prosecutorial conduct which would be
49:30
Speaker 3: an additional grievance committee for prosecutors who commit misconduct as
49:35
Speaker 3: a form. Of deterrence so prosecutors won't withhold evidence if
49:41
Speaker 3: they know that there's going to be a penalty aside
49:43
Speaker 3: from the, agreements committee or they won't knowingly use. Perjured
49:46
Speaker 3: testimony they try to create. Some balance, you know the
49:49
Speaker 3: system works on checks, and balances and so, You know i'm,
49:52
Speaker 3: Out there i'm trying. To lobby i'm trying to work
49:54
Speaker 3: if you can help anyway with The wrongful, conviction movement whether,
49:59
Speaker 3: it's don't, moral, support anything is. Greatly appreciated and there's
50:04
Speaker 3: other people that are in prison that deserve to. Come
50:07
Speaker 3: HOME if i could give my life to bring ten,
50:09
Speaker 3: PEOPLE home i probably would. Do, it guys just give
50:13
Speaker 3: me one. More day i'll go do have, some fun
50:15
Speaker 3: and then you could come from my soul and let
50:17
Speaker 3: ten other free people out that don't deserve to be.
50:19
Speaker 3: IN prison i would probably.
50:20
Speaker 4: Do that don't forget to give us a fantastic review
50:29
Speaker 4: wherever you get. Your podcasts it. Really Helps and i'm
50:33
Speaker 4: a proud donor To The innocence PROJECT and i really
50:35
Speaker 4: hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause
50:39
Speaker 4: and helping to prevent future. Wrongful convictions Go To innocence
50:42
Speaker 4: project dot org to learn how to donate and. Get
50:45
Speaker 4: involved i'd like to thank our, Production Team connor Hall And.
50:49
Speaker 4: Kevin wartis the music in the show is by THREE
50:51
Speaker 4: time oscar Nominated Composer. Jay ralph be sure to follow
50:55
Speaker 4: Us on instagram at Row And ful conviction And on
50:57
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