Latest / Becoming / Lisa Valentine Clark: Grief, Laughter, and Starting Over

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Lisa Valentine Clark: Grief, Laughter, and Starting Over · Becoming

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You are able to just bring joy and laughter wherever
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  Speaker 1: you go, and yet our life feels so much. How
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  Speaker 1: do you laugh? How can someone bring some of that
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  Speaker 1: energy back into their life.
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  Speaker 2: I think you find what you're looking for. You've got
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: to change the neuropathways in your brain instead of looking
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  Speaker 2: to identify that negativity bias that we all have, because
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  Speaker 2: our brains want to protect us and solve problems, especially
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  Speaker 2: when you've been through trauma. Try to look for it.
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  Speaker 2: The life is ridiculous, so let yourself laugh. So look
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  Speaker 2: for it. It's everywhere.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Fatherhood Movement podcasts. I'm your host,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Bubba Paige, and I am so glad that we have
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Lisa Valentine Clark here with me. You guys, if you
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  Speaker 1: have not seen her yet, which I'm sure most of
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: you have, because we share I think we share quite
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: a few of the same followers. Yeah, some phenomenal women
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  Speaker 1: and men out there, absolutely that are here listening for good. Okay,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: you guys, check this out. If you haven't seen you
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: need to check out the Lisa Shows, the executive producer
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: and host of The Lisia's Show podcast and Council of
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Moms podcasts Now you've probably seen her in some movies
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: because you're famous at these movies about come on all right.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: She also wrote so real moms making it up as
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: we go? I have not seen that one yet. Real
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Moms making it up as we Go? Host of the
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: TV show Random acts that one is a classic. You
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  Speaker 1: got to see it headlined to musical improv TV show
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: show offs. That was fun. She also started movies stocking
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  Speaker 1: Santa once I was a behind my kids still watched
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  Speaker 1: this one and once I was engaged and also the
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  Speaker 1: mother of five mostly grown children. Lisa, this is just
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  Speaker 1: a pleasure to have you on this show.
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  Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me.
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  Speaker 1: I just love it. And we can do it in
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  Speaker 1: studio because your local great go Utah. Okay, So first thing,
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  Speaker 1: I we're just going to dive into something that's maybe
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  Speaker 1: a little harder. Oh great, I know, I know it.
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  Speaker 1: We're gonna go into something harder and then maybe we'll
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: lighten it up. Okay, and are you okay with that totally? Look,
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  Speaker 1: there's quite a few of our viewers listeners who have
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: gone through hard things. Yeah, you've had to go through
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  Speaker 1: hard things. I've had to go through. I think it's
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  Speaker 1: part of God's plan that we all go through our
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  Speaker 1: own unique hard thing.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's happening.
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  Speaker 1: It's happening, and hopefully it builds us to be the
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  Speaker 1: person we're supposed to be. But I specifically wanted to
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  Speaker 1: start off. There are a lot of moms out there
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  Speaker 1: raising children without a father figure in the home. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: whether that was through divorce or their widows or something abandonment,
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  Speaker 1: something that happened. I want you to kind of like,
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  Speaker 1: what would you tell them, how would you counsel them?
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  Speaker 1: Since you've had to go through some difficulties in that regard.
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  Speaker 2: Right through the get go, let's go, Well, you know,
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  Speaker 2: do you have a little context. I am a widow.
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  Speaker 2: My husband had als lived with it for four and
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  Speaker 2: a half years and he's been gone for now it's
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: been six years. And in that time, because he was
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  Speaker 2: living with a terminal disease that left him unable to
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  Speaker 2: move and speak at the time of his death. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: it's really been this long process. And it's interesting because
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  Speaker 2: when I look back and I think about it, even
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  Speaker 2: when he couldn't speak or move, he was a good father,
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  Speaker 2: like better than most, do you know what I mean?
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  Speaker 2: And I think that that's remarkable because a lot of
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  Speaker 2: times we think about, you know, what is a father
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  Speaker 2: and what is their role and how what's a real
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: like partnership look like? And we had that and so
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  Speaker 2: to me, it's important to say that because it's part
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  Speaker 2: of feeling the loss of it, right, And so from
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  Speaker 2: my perspective, when he passed at the height of the
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  Speaker 2: pandemic in twenty twenty, I felt that loss in a
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  Speaker 2: very stark way, which is so funny because I mean,
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  Speaker 2: he had a terminal disease. We knew how this was
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  Speaker 2: going to end one hundred percent of the time, and
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  Speaker 2: yet the shock of having him gone was felt. And
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  Speaker 2: I say that because I think that's how a lot
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  Speaker 2: of women enter into doing it by themselves and being
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  Speaker 2: single moms. Is it feels like a shock, even if
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  Speaker 2: you can see it coming, even if everybody knew before
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  Speaker 2: you or whatever. It doesn't matter. That idea of a
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  Speaker 2: shock is something that we don't talk about a lot
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  Speaker 2: because you still need to parent. There's no breaks from
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  Speaker 2: mothering as you're like, wait, let me hold my breath,
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  Speaker 2: Wait what's happening, Let me get my bearings, let me
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  Speaker 2: understand what's going on, Let me recalibrate. You're doing it
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  Speaker 2: in real time under extraordinary circumstances, no matter what those
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  Speaker 2: circumstances are, and I feel like it always feels like
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  Speaker 2: a shock, and it did for me, and so I
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  Speaker 2: think maybe the first thing that I would say to
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  Speaker 2: that is it's okay to take a deep breath and
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  Speaker 2: just to not have to make declarative statements and say, Okay,
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  Speaker 2: now I'm going to do this. Now it's going to
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  Speaker 2: be like this. Now I'm gonna, you know, be this
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  Speaker 2: kind of you know, single mom. I think sometimes we,
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  Speaker 2: in our effort and our ability to want to support
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  Speaker 2: single moms, we sort of put them on a pedestal like,
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  Speaker 2: oh they're so strong, Oh they're so great, and it's
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  Speaker 2: a lot of pressure to live up to and you're like,
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  Speaker 2: I don't know what you're talking about. I'm just trying
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  Speaker 2: to like get through the day, really, And so that
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  Speaker 2: kind of I think a lot of us, I know,
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  Speaker 2: a lot of us while we're single parenting, are grieving.
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  Speaker 2: And grief does not have a timeline. Grief doesn't care
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  Speaker 2: about your feelings or your parenting plan, doesn't care about anything,
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  Speaker 2: and grief can't be controlled. It can kind of be managed.
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  Speaker 2: It can just be lived with and befriended. Interesting, And
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  Speaker 2: so I think the I would really say of that,
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  Speaker 2: that initial shock and that grief, Hey, this is not
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  Speaker 2: what I planned on, This is not what I want,
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  Speaker 2: This is not what is best for my children. But
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  Speaker 2: this is where I am at. Yeah, and this is
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  Speaker 2: what we're doing is a bigger transition than we talk about.
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  Speaker 2: So I would want to like acknowledge that and sit
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  Speaker 2: in that for a minute before I have ten easy
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  Speaker 2: steps to make single parenting better, you know what I mean,
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  Speaker 2: Like I would, I would never you know.
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  Speaker 1: You just sit with that. I think there's so one
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  Speaker 1: there's at least half of the people watching who have
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: gone through something like this according to the statistics, right,
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  Speaker 1: whether it's divorce or being widowed, and probably more than
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  Speaker 1: fifty percent. And so we're looking at these people who
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  Speaker 1: who've had to go through this hard, traumatic experience and
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  Speaker 1: they woke up the next day and their life has
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  Speaker 1: completely changed.
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  Speaker 2: They weren't even they're different.
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  Speaker 1: And they're a different person. They're going through, like you said,
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  Speaker 1: the grief. And I know there's the grief cycle that
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: we talk about, but for those who've gone through the
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  Speaker 1: grief cycle, usually just bounces around.
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  Speaker 2: Listen that grief cycle, if I may, respectfully, that was
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  Speaker 2: made for someone who is dealing with dying the person.
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  Speaker 2: So in my case, like my late husband, that those
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  Speaker 2: stages for the survivors grief is. I mean, I wish,
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  Speaker 2: I wish it were this stage, to this stage, to
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  Speaker 2: this stage, and now I'm done, please and thank you,
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  Speaker 2: but it's just not for me. Grief is best understood
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  Speaker 2: in like crazy metaphors, like have you heard the one
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  Speaker 2: of the ball bouncing in the box And at first,
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  Speaker 2: grief is so big it fills the whole box, and
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  Speaker 2: so it's always bumping up like it's those waves. To
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  Speaker 2: use another metal, I'm going to mix metaphors, say this
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  Speaker 2: is great. The waves are just coming constantly and you're
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  Speaker 2: trying to like catch your breath and you're just like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: just managing this is taking all of my time and
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  Speaker 2: thought and energy, Like it's so big. The ball never
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  Speaker 2: gets smaller, the grief never goes away. The box gets bigger,
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  Speaker 2: your life, your experience, you know, see, the box gets bigger,
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  Speaker 2: and so it still bumps, but not as often. And
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  Speaker 2: I hated that in my new grief of like of
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  Speaker 2: learning that and now that I'm six years out, I
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  Speaker 2: understand the wisdom of it, because that grief is is
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  Speaker 2: that that love that you had, either for the person,
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  Speaker 2: for the relationship, for how life used to be. You know,
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  Speaker 2: whatever your grief is about, it's part you live with it.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm sorry to get started in such a deep topic.
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  Speaker 1: This is where I live. I live like so many
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  Speaker 1: of us that are watching and listening this, This hits home.
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  Speaker 1: So let's flip the side. So this is that was,
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  Speaker 1: you know, relating to those who are going through it
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  Speaker 1: or have now flip it to those who haven't gone
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  Speaker 1: through it, how can they help support their neighbor, their sister,
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  Speaker 1: their cousin, their friend who is going through this. What
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  Speaker 1: is the best way for them to support?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, that's such a great question. And because I think,
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  Speaker 2: you know, especially being on the receiving end, you don't
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  Speaker 2: want to criticize anyone who's trying to help. But some
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  Speaker 2: people say things or do things that are unintentionally so
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  Speaker 2: hurtful and add to the greed.
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  Speaker 1: Please share.
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  Speaker 2: And I never want to be that person. And now
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  Speaker 2: that I've seen people who have been just so lovely
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  Speaker 2: and have helped me, I'm like, oh, that's it, and
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  Speaker 2: that's how. And in fact, as my husband was dying,
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  Speaker 2: he said to me, well, he typed it on his
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  Speaker 2: little with his I Gaze technology on the screen. He said,
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  Speaker 2: you know, I feel so bad because now that I'm dying,
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  Speaker 2: I feel like, oh, because of the way that people
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  Speaker 2: had served us and served our family. He's like, now
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  Speaker 2: I get it. Now I know how to be a
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  Speaker 2: good friend or a good like. Now I know how
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  Speaker 2: to show up like oh, and I just thought, what
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  Speaker 2: a beautiful thing to say. So what do you do
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  Speaker 2: is instead of having a you just show up.
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  Speaker 1: Just show up.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the simplest way. The text instead of
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  Speaker 2: let me know if you need ever, say, let's just
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  Speaker 2: take that out, get rid of they let me know
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  Speaker 2: there's anything you need, because they're not going to lie.
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  Speaker 2: I would never let anybody know because I'm like, I'm
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  Speaker 2: taking care of it myself. I'm kind of that way.
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  Speaker 2: I think most are, and I think most are because
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  Speaker 2: you think I don't want to bother anybody. I got
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  Speaker 2: to learn how to do this on my own. You're
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: going to leave anyway, so I better not get used
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  Speaker 2: to it. Like we tell ourselves so many things and
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: you're in crisis too. And when someone is in crisis
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  Speaker 2: because of death or divorce, which are which also usually
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  Speaker 2: means a lot of other things, job changes, home changes
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  Speaker 2: like which are also other traumatic things. It's never one thing.
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  Speaker 2: You don't want to put the onus on somebody to
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  Speaker 2: say you you come up with a thing, you like,
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  Speaker 2: you're giving that person who has overwhelmed one more thing
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  Speaker 2: to do. So don't say, let me know if there's
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  Speaker 2: anything I can do, Just do one thing. So some
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: things that people would do is they would you know,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: like dropping off food, dropping off paper products so you
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  Speaker 2: don't have to worry about doing dishes, hiring someone yeah,
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  Speaker 2: like I'll never forget that, hiring a cleaning person to
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: come in for them and just letting them know, giving
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: them a gift certificate to get a massage or something else,
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  Speaker 2: gift cards for door dash and things like that, so
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: when they're having a horrible day they can just be like, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: just send me dinner, like yes, coming over and making
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  Speaker 2: sure that they turn their water off if that's what
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  Speaker 2: the other spouse used to do, or you know, like
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: just when the weather turns cold. Just do you know
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  Speaker 2: what I'm saying?
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  Speaker 1: I love this, like what do I do?
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  Speaker 2: I do this one thing I'm really good at, Like
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: I'm at Costco. What else can I I'm I'm gonna
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  Speaker 2: I am picking up milk. I'm gonna give drop off
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: some milk. What else do you need? I'm right here.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Can I bring you dinner Tuesday or Thursday next week?
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Hey you neah dinner?
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Do you need dinner? I've got extra It's like, and
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: if you don't need it, then just freeze it for
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: a time when you need it. That kind of stuff
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: that's beautiful in all like paper products, so they don't
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: have to worry, like you know, meals or or I'll
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: tell you what, Like I'm driving by your house every
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: day on the way to school. Let me drive your
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: kid to school every morning because you just started a
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: new job that starts early in the morning. And then
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: I felt so guilty and I was like when this
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: happened to me, I was like, well, no I can,
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  Speaker 2: I can. I'll give you a gift card for gas,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: or like no I can. And She's like, I'm driving
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  Speaker 2: right by your house every day, but I'll never forget that.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Or I'm driving to baseball, let me pick I'll pick
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  Speaker 2: up your kid, you don't ever have to worry about
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  Speaker 2: driving because you're a single parent.
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  Speaker 1: Now, oh my gosh, okay, on and on, but this
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  Speaker 1: is these are such simple.
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  Speaker 2: Solution totally, and you only have to do one that
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  Speaker 2: most never think about. Yeah and all and some of
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: those things we think they don't count because they don't
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: like hurt us. They're not like it, I've been buy
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: your house, I can pick it. It's just an awareness,
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  Speaker 2: an awareness of if I were the only parent and
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: there were never somebody else, and you know, in a
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: divorce custody it's different that kind of stuff. But when
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: you're on your own in any way, it's just trying
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: to alleviate and watch out for each other. I found myself.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, for a long time I was a stay
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: at home mom with five kids at home predominantly the
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: majority of the time for about like a twelve year period.
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  Speaker 2: There were lots of things that I could do that
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: was no big deal, that I could have done to
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: help out my friends who were yeah, single moms, and
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: stuff that would have like, oh yeah, let me describe
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: your kid and take them. We're going to the park,
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  Speaker 2: No big deal, so you can have an hour to
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: yourself or something like that, or oh, yeah i'm making dinner.
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  Speaker 2: I'm making a ton because I got all these kids,
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  Speaker 2: it'd be so easy for me to make a little
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: bit like yeah, come over. And I think back and
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I think, oh, did I do that enough? And I'm like,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: not enough I could have. So it's an awareness of
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: seeing beyond yourself of things that you can do. And
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be extraordinary, but it helps. And
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: it helps more than the food. It helps more than
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: the rides. It helps to know you're not alone in
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  Speaker 2: it and that somebody cares and is invested in you
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  Speaker 2: and your kids.
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  Speaker 1: They probably feel seen. Yeah, they feel heard.
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  Speaker 2: And I'll tell you another thing that it does. It
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: establishes relationships that you underestimate as your kids are growing old.
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  Speaker 2: There's something really different and very special now to me
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: looking back because my kids are all adults, of saying, oh,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: that was a friend that like my kids were in
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: their home, they were under like their influence. Those are
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: special friends. It's different when they've had like an influence,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: and especially because they know their dad in a way
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: that like they don't even know, you know, those are
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: special friends because they knew their dad. It's just a
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: different kind of influence. So I think we underestimate it
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: a lot. But it's just an awareness and inviting people
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: into your life.
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  Speaker 1: M I love it. It's just resonates so much because I
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: even find myself having gone through some divorce and trying
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: to parent eight kids. Now we do have seven days on,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: seven days off, so it is quite a different story
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: than being completely on your own. But there are moments
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: where with eight children and activities, yeah, no, how do
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: I get everywhere? And how do you do it all
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: the time? And there have been people who have stepped
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: in and hey, let me do this or do that,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: and or I just take them all with me wherever
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: I go.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then that changes the way that you parent
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: and yeah, and it's just different. Yeah, which is insane.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Which which works out? Okay, Okay, So here's something for
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: the mom and feels like she has to be strong
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: every second? Who like, what does real strength look like
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: when you're also heartbroken, exhausted, scared?
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: What does real strength look like? Because I just I
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: fear that there's so many And this goes for men
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: as well, but I think I specifically here with women,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: they're feeling like they have to do it all, But
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: what is the real strength look like?
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think the real strength is like this
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: sounds so cliche, but like inside of you, when you're
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: checking in and you're being true to who you are,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: you know, And for me, I was able to cling
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: to that when everything just felt like it was just
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: dissolving around me. I find that, like with my faith,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: with my relationship with God, to being like, oh, remember,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: like you're not alone, you know these things, like do that.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: It doesn't need to look any certain way. I feel
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: that there's so much pressure with social media to appear
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: to be a certain way. So I think kind of
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: my advice too, is just like keep that off of there,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: like don't you don't need to You don't need to
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: be or pretend or act like anything for anyone.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, And but.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: We don't really say that to each other.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: No, And it's really hard and it.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Doesn't have to look one way. It's not going to
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: look one way for everyone. Everyone's situation, like you say,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: is so different, and those differences are they matter, right
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: because we're parenting doing that, and so while we're doing
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: whatever we're doing publicly or in our homes, our kids
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: are watching I mean then, and that is parenting. You know,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: it's not just what we think that they see everything
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: and so whether we want them to where we want
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: them to do. So that's kind of strength looks like
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: where is your priorities? What is it that you really
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, it kind of strips everything away, like what
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: do you think is really important? Like if you can
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: only do one thing or two things in a day,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: then what are you going to do and then go
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: to bed like saying Okay, that was a job well
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: done and it's going to look different and you're gonna
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: unintentionally offend people or relationships won't survive because of it.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: But like them are the breaks there's And so I
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: think that strength doesn't look like one way, but it
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: does look like internally staying true to like the very
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: very basics of what you want to do. And I
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: only think that you need to have you know, one, two,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: maybe three confidants that you can just be yourself with
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: and just say all the things too that you don't
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: want everybody else to know, that will see you, that
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: will that will hold that for you and remind you
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: like that you can lean on and you don't need
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: to share that with everybody else.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Hopefully they're a positive influence for you as well.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, they're your people. You know, everybody needs
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: that they need, you don't need. You don't need a lot, though.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: You can't be telling your business to everybody, because you know,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: when you don't have that in a spouse or that
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: spouse relationship, it can feel really really lonely, especially when
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: you've had it before, and so relying on friends to
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: sort of be there for you, be there for you
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: becomes you can do anything after that. That's strength.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: And hopefully the idea is if they are your people,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: that they'll support your decisions, will support your Well, they
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: may call you out on your crap too.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they need to, I hope.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, because I've seen with some with some folks
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: when they have certain people in their life that they
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: are that are their confidants, if they're not the right example,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: or if they're not the right influence, they could lead
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: them down a path of destruction.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Well you know, yes, you know, you are the sum
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: of the five people that like I that you spend
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: the most time with. I really believe that, you know,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: And so you choose your people wisely, and and yeah,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: that'll lead there's I mean, that will inform who you're
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: going to be, you know. I think that they're for
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: that strength when you don't when you feel weak, when
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: you feel lonely, when you feel like, oh my gosh,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if I trust my own brain
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: because of that sort of grief fog and things like that,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: that you rely on these people like you've never relied
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: on before, and it is a huge risk, right either way.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: So yeah, choose wisely. But when you're asking for advice
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: or perspective, the tendency I think now is just to
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: ask everybody, like on social media, what do you think
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: I should do? What do you think about this?
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Da?
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Da da? But I just think be really really careful.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: I think there are about two or three people that
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: I will ask, am I totally off here? Or like,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: here's my problem, here's my situation, here's my decision, what
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: do you think?
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: And respect their decisions.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: And I will respect it and I will weigh it
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: and everyone else. Thank you.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you say this. I just feel like
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I've had to watch some people close to me go
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: through this experience with maybe not the best influences. So
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: when they go to get that advice or to that confidante,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: and that person leads them down a path that may
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: not be the best for them. That is so painful
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: to watch, and.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Especially if you really care about the person too, and
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: you're like this, get that, but you know that's and
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: then that's their choice.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: That's their choice. Yeah, you know.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: I think it's really interesting, especially when people become single.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I've seen this. It doesn't even matter how or whatever.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: There seems to be this like narrative, like this script
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: that everyone's supposed to do. And I don't know if
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: it's just like the contrarian in me that's like I
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: don't have to do that, yeah, don't tell me what
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: to do, but the and I just I think it
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: feels like cliche, like like it's supposed to be all
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: about like do whatever you want and like now it's
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: your turn to be happy, and you do this, and
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: it is. But but your happiness has always been the
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: objective all along. It's not just because of your single status.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I just think it's a little bit
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: something deeper, and I think that those conversations need to
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: be a little bit more nuanced, I think than they are.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Instead of one size fits off.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: If you were to give I love this topic. I
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: think it resonates on especially with social media, which is
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: where probably people are consuming this listening and watching. There
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: tends to be a what's the right way to put it?
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: A glorification of being single. Oh yeah, and you know
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: people are showing their glow ups, they're showing their you know,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I'm this new person, I'm this and look everyone who
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: has had to become single after you know, being married,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: whether it's wit or divorce, I just feel like, yes,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: they've been through something hard. Can you help give some
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: warnings maybe if you could? And I know this is
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: off the cuff, so I apologize this was not in
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: our question list. This is just off the cuff. If
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: there are women who are seeing this happen with their
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: friends and they're seeing this glorification of what this looks like,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: what are maybe some of the reality checks that you
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: would help share with people?
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: So hard because you've really identified this idea. Because here's
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: the thing we're always told like love where you're at,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Like the happiness is not a future event, right, Like
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: you got to learn how to own your own stuff
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: and live your own life so that you're happy now,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: like no one else is responsible for that. You know,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: this idea that oh, if I'm coupled, if I'm dating someone,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: or if I'm married, then I'll be happy or whatever
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: is a dangerous thing, right, And that's true too. And
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: I think that people who are in hard marriages are
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: going through a hard time. Maybe see that of like,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: oh oh, my problems would be solved if I, you know,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: were divorced, or if I weren't married, or if I
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: or single. You know, I don't know. I can't really
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: speak to that, but but I get the idea of
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: trying to be happy wherever you're at. But I think
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: if I can understand what you're you're asking, you're asking
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: a different question, which is this is like it's a competition.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: And I will say it's different for women than it
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: is for men. When you enter the dating world after
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: having not dated, in my case for like twenty seven years,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: we're just like, oh my gosh, You're like, it's a
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: totally different world first of all, dating and meeting people.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: And.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: It's not a great it's not a great environment for
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: women because dating is judging people, and we have a
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: different we judge women differently than we do with men.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: And this is where I go off on that. You know,
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: it's a lot harder for women to age than it
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: is for men. It's a lot harder for Let's.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Talk about this because I think there's going to be
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of people who resonate with this. I haven't
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: had a conversation like this before. So have you not
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: educate me? Please?
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Okay? So for women, it's different because men typically date
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: a lot younger, right.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Is there a rule? Is there age like where what
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to date or not dated? Yeah?
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: There is, But I don't like it, Okay, So I mean,
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: I just it's I mean, it's just all the cliche things,
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: especially you see in the widow widower world or in
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: the divorced men usually uh get remarried a lot faster
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: than women. The statistics are a lot different for you know, women,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: if they had been in a good marriage or a
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: difficult marriage, of when they how long they take. Women
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: typically have more of the child rearing responsibilities. Yeah, women
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: are judged more harshly on looks and aging. And I
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: it's just really really eye opening. It seems so fair.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: It's just culture and and I feel like it's in
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: and out of of you know, church kind of culture,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: whatever religion you're in. I feel like it's it's a
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: pretty standard that it's just like, hey, yeah, this is
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: how it is kind of thing. The things that I
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: think that single men are told are different than what
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: single women are told. It's hard, and I know a
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: lot of women who have just opted out of like yeah,
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: I don't. I mean, I've had a lot of first
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: dates or men communicating with me. It's just like a checklist,
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: you know, even before you're like fascinating, like hey, let
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: me get to know you or things like that. So
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: to say that dating is the same for everyone is
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: just like I was like, oh, this is everyone's playing
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: a different game. I don't want to play a game.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: I just want to get to know people. I just
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: suddenly find myself single, and you know, it's different because
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: your friendships change is and it's not like oh, here's
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: all these married couples and you kind of go out,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: you know, And I mean, I'm still friends with my
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: married couples and they're my closest friends. But I was like, oh,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: I probably need some more single friends because you have
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: different time on your hand, you have different. You do
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: different things for holidays, for weekends, like all of your
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: whole like schedules change, and so getting to know people
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: in that way is a little bit different.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: And so I think it's fascinating.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: So overwhelming.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: It's overwhelmed me and a lot of people.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Opt out, and I understand why, even though they're lonely
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: and even though they'd love to.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Be in a relationship. Yeah. I know, for me, I
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: haven't taken a deep dive into the single scene like
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: that hasn't I just haven't done that. And the dating
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: world post divorce is it was twenty years for me
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: right essentially, if not dating, and it's wildly different than
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: what I remember. Yeah, And so these concepts, so I
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: feel horrible that women are held up to different standard
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: than met.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Well that's just women married or not married. It's just like,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a different standard that we're judged by.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well thank you. It's it's it, you know, is
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: the water that we swim in. And I think when
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: you're grieving, whether it's the loss of a marriage through
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: divorce or through death, to kind of like peek around
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: and just want to get to know people and then
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: be reminded of it. It sort of adds to the
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: unfairness of what you've been through and whether you chosen
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: or not. Yeah, Yeah, it's just I'm just so sorry. Well,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: when you ask about, like what does real strength look
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: like or what should women how should they show up
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: and be strong? That's why I think the first thing
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I would say is is like, it's all a shock,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: and just be gentle with yourself.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, patience, it's.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Going to be what it's going to be. Yeah, and
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: it's okay.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: I appreciate sharing these things. It like, it hurts my
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: heart to hear some of this that, especially the difference
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: in how you feel judged or or how women feel
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: looked at or whatever it is, whether.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: It's the criteria is different. I think.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: That's sad to me. But I know that that's the reality.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: And and I hate to say that I didn't know
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: to that extent because I am a man and I
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: haven't heard. Yeah, I haven't heard or felt that, But
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: hearing it from you, I can. I can. I can
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: see it clearly what you mean by that. I've had
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: a unique opportunity to work with like on with one
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: on one with quite a few women, whether they've been
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: widowed or divorced, and overwhelmed is a key word that
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: I hear all the test. Yeah. And so you know,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: single and taking care of the kids and trying to
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: you know, produce revenue cash income for their family, and
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: and there's so much going on, it tends to put
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of these women in more of a masculine state,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: if that makes sense. So the concept of feminine and
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: masculinity that kind of thing. And as we've worked together,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: I've tried to help just with some very simplistic systems.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: And I know it's probably more of a masculine thing
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: to put all these systems.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Together, but I love a good system. This is kind
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: of how we organization is like, yeah, otherwise, how are
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: you going to Yeah?
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: And so one of the things that I found is
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: that most of us are not taking time at the
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: end of the night to plan the next day. And
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: it's a This is if we're talking about tips for
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: two people out there or any married person, ten maybe
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: fifteen minutes max. To look at your calendar and to
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: have your core three tasks that you have to get
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: done the next day. Prioritize the hardest one first, even
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: though you want to procrastinate the hardest one, and you
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: don't want to do it having those three tasks put
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: on your calendar. I physically will put them on my calendar. Yeah,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: so that I block out time to get those certain
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: things done. So at the end of the day you
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: can look back and say, I got the at least
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I got it.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: I know, at least those two or three.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Things done, and you know that you can feel good about.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: And then you're moving forward that you're doing something. It's
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: not just like, oh, I'm overwhelmed, so I just put
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: my hands up and I just want to pull the
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: covers over. Yeah, which I tried that and it doesn't work.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: It doesn't work right. It may feel word for that moment,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: I know, but then you feel worse over time. So
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: one of the things that they keep mentioning to me
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: is that all day long, specifically these women, they'll have
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: tasks that.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: Just pile up because they just come at you all
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: the time, all the time.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: So if there was a way to record those tasks somehow,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: and just a quick hack, if you're using an Apple device,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: you can just ask Siri to add a reminder to
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: and then yeah, it already has the app built in.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: I mean to me, I just put everything in my.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Notes if you have a note that either way.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I do old school like a notebook and I
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: write everything down perfect.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, whatever works for the person.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: And I will say to your point about overwhelmed, because
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: I do think that that is a huge common thing.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: I would say even before that, even before you you know,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: write down, which I think it's so great at the
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: end of the day to be like, okay, so tomorrow,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: what are the three things? I think that's a great idea.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: And I do that in my calendar, and I have
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: several calendars, paper one and digital, and it works for me.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: But I know there's probably a simplified way to do that,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: but is to simplify what you think you need to
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: do and who you think you need to be like
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: before all of that, like, because part of my grief
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: is like, oh, I liked who I was when I
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: was married to my late husband. I liked the things
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: that I was able to do, the life I was
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: able to live, and that is not possible now because
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: I don't have that partner. I'm not in that stage
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: of life. For lots of reasons, that's not possible. And
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: being able to really like put that to bed and
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: to go, Okay, now, there's lots of really great things
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: that I'd like to do that I can't do.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Because you're in a unique search.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: I'm been a unique and so I really think that
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: simplifying that. And we say that all the time, like
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: simplify and only you will know what that is. But
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: sometimes we put a lot of stuff on ourselves that
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: were like, actually, that would be great, and then I
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: always say it in my other timeline, I'm doing that
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: and I'm thriving, but not this one and you can
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: and maybe later. But having those priorities will help you
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: decide what it is that you really need to accomplish
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: in what you have to learn to let go even
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: if it's a good thing.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, saying no is a problem most of us have.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a generational thing, but I
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: think we're all created to be yes men or yes
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: women yes and take on way too much. I was
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: working with a women this morning and she said one
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: of the things she was so proud of this last week,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: with everything on her plate, she was asked to do
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: these two really cool projects. Yeah, that she was she
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: would be excited to do normally yes, she said no,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: and she said she was so proud of herself, such
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: a big deal no yes, so that she could focus
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: on the things she has on her plate. I think
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: most of us end up saying no to way too much,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: and then we're overwhelmed with the responsibility. And it's okay
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: in my view to say no and to keep the
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: highest priority levels as most important.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we live in the society that like values productivity
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: and accomplishment, and I think sometimes to our own detriment,
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: especially when you're talking about parenting and being with your kids,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: like you may not prioritize like, oh, I'm just going
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: to sit and listen to my kid and do whatever
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: they want to do and like get to know them,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: you know, for twenty minutes or for a half an hour.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: We're just going to chill at home tonight or whatever.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Like those are the moments that when your kids are
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: adults that you miss the most. I Mean, we always
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: say that's what you know matters the most and the
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: time and everything, but it is true. But if we're
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: not putting it in our calendar now, especially as a
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: single parent, it's not just going to magically happen there's
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: always something to do.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: So this is this is where I love going on
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: these one on one dates with my kids. Yeah, and yes,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: having them younger and non adult kids might be easier
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: for me to be able to do that as I
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: manage their Again, there's adaptation to all of this, right,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: But if I don't put it on my calendar, it's
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: never going to happen, right. So, and if I don't,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: I even keep a list of all the things that
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: I have done and with who, so that I know
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: who's next.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: That's great because otherwise, well, yeah, you have to stay organized.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: I've got to stay organized. I have to, and especially
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: with eight kids. And so, but here's something I wanted
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: to think. Look, you've been known for having an incredible
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, you have an amazing humor. You are able
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: to just bring joy and laughter wherever you go. Help
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: all of us that are at home. We're listening to this,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: we're watching this, and yet our life feels so like
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: it's so much. How do you laugh? How do you
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: bring that joy back? So are there tips that you've
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: been able to I mean, you're a pro that bring
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: laughter and joy into your life and sharing it with others.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Help those of us that are at home where we're like,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I've like had a guttural laugh
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: for too long. So how can someone bring some of
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: that energy back into their life.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: That's a really good question, because I think we are
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: we take ourselves too seriously. I think most of us do.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: And I get the seductive nature of that, like, oh,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: I've been through so much in the pain and that stuff.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: I think you find what you're looking for. Okay, So
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: if you even just today was like, you know, I
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: want to laugh more. I want to laugh more with
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: my kids. I used to be so like care free
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: and I don't know, I remember in college when you
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: just like drive around that's a very gen x thing
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: to say, but like and just laugh with your friends,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: and like that's the whole thing of what you did.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: You're just dorking around. To me, that's like how I
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: want to live my life, just dorking around, laughing at
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: dumb stuff. So the first thing I would say is
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: you find what you're looking for. So when you so
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: try to put it in, you've got to change the
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: neuropathways in your brain instead of looking to identify that
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: negativity bias that we all have because our brains want
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: to protect us and solve problems and not get chased
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: by the you know, the bear or whatever. We're looking
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: for it and danger identifying as solving problems, especially when
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: you've been through trauma like I've been through and like
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: most of us have been through, is try to every
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: day like look for it, and humor is everywhere. I mean,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: life is ridiculous and sometimes because my situation was so extreme,
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: just like stating it is funny just in how you
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: look at it. It's like like imagine, like, yeah, this
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: is the best time of my life to start dating
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: when I'm in paramenopause, grieving the death of my husband
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: who died at the height of the pande, I'm well,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: five children are at home. Sure, yeah, get a dog,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: start dating. That sounds like a good idea, like that's
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: just life' it's just But the way that I really
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: feel about it is like it's so ridiculous. It feels
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: like if you were writing a movie script and you
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: wrote that aut you'd be like, that's too heavyheaded, we
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: can't do it.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: It's too much.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: That's funny, and it just is so let yourself laugh.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: So look for it. It's everywhere. Don't take yourself too seriously.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Be the butt of your own jokes. Like I just
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: make fun of myself. I talk to myself. I love it,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: I make myself laugh. It may sound crazy, but it
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: is actually helped me remain sane. I love it, I
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: mean and also too, like that's the best of social media, right,
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Like if we want, change your algorithm. If you're looking
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: for funny stuff, it'll show you more funny stuff. Share
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: it with your friends, ask them to make you laugh.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: I'm really lucky. My biggest hack is just hang out
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: with funny people. My friends are the funniest people in
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: the world. And so if I'm looking to laugh, like
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: I've been accused of being an easy laugh, of laughing
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: at everything, but you know what good for me?
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: That brings word joy.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: I also feel like sometimes we're so like you can't
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: laugh about this. We have so many rules about laughing,
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: and I think it's weird just laugh. And I think
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: that if there's a choice between not laughing and laughing,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: even if it's inappropriately, that you should just laugh.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Should just goes.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Let's air on the other side for a while and
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: see what that does for society.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: You know, I just think when you wake up in
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: the morning, obviously having some form of gratitude for whatever
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: is going on in your life is going to help
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: you have a more positive experience being able to see
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: the glasses half full versus half empty. And some people
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: were born with it, yeah, looking at it as glass,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: and so it'll be a harder effort for their sho.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: But when you stub your toe, you can either curse
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: and be so mad or you just laugh like crazy
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: because when was the last time you stubbed your toe?
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Exactly?
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: I just say, in the whole dating world, there's a
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: lot to laugh about when you.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Do the whole dating earned my most traumatic, difficult dating
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: experienses into the funniest stories that I won't share with everyone.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: You need to do, but I do share with my
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: friends and they love it and they laugh at my pain.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: And you know what good someone should.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's amazing. All right. Well, here's the deal.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: I know we're already running out of time. A couple
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: ask questions. If you're okay with that LEAs to be
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: able to get there. All right, So here's one of
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: the things for moms who are starting over, whether that
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: includes dating again, rediscovering themselves, which a lot of us
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: need to creating a new family rhythm. How do they
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: move forward without feeling like that they are betraying the
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: life that they had before.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, this is a big one for me, and I'm
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: going to try not to cry because a lot of
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: my grief is but those were my best days. How
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: can I move on? I don't want to, you know,
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: it was so great. I think here's how I see
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: it now, and it's taken me a while to get here,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: but I really really believe this life and living is
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: about moving forward. Faith and hope is always forward facing.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I have found joy is only experienced in the present.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: It's not experienced in the past or in the future.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: It's in the present. So being very very present is
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: where we experience joy and how we start over, and
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: it's the way that we were meant to live. There's
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of people walking around who are alive in
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: their bodies and are not living, and we both know
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: that everyone has seen somebody like that. So really living
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: in the present and finding ways to be present, and
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: there's lots of different ways, you know, for me, it's
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: like exercising, talking to friends, you know, creating is all
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: about being in the present. But that starting over is
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: no joke. It's no joke, and it's going to feel
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: uncomfortable and it's going to feel awkward for a really,
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: really long time, and it's supposed to. So that's something
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: that I would say. And another thing that I would
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: say is that as I have think of it as
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: a creative process. You know, I really feel like the
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: first story that our heavenly parents taught us about the world,
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: it's in Genesis a couple times, it's in the book,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: it's everywhere, is the story of the creation. And I
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: was like, yeah, we got it first day and second day,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: But now I see it totally different. We are meant
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: to create. That is why we are here, and we
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: are not just handed a life path and expected to
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: suck it up and just follow it like robots are.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: We are co creating our lives with God. And I
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: really feel that and if we at the times when
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: I really lean into that the most, is when I
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: feel the most joy and the most purpose and the
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: most aligned Because we are creators, we're creating it. So
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: what kind of life do you want to live? Yes,
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: you have all this experience and full life that now
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: I think about it, I'm like, Wow, am I the
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: luckiest or what that I got to live that life?
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: It's not who I am now, and it's not what
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: I'm doing now, And I've got lots of questions about why.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't have all the answers. But
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: I can create that now. And instead of just waiting
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: passively to be moved and to be presented with well,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: what am I supposed to do? Who am I supposed
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: to be? With home, it's like instead, it's much more energizing,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: and I think faith promoting to say, what do we
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: want to create? I invite God in on the process
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: because that's my religious like, that is that's my why
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: right like throughout my whole life. And I can trust
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: in that because I've experimented my whole life with that
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: and it's led me through to good things. So I
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: don't have complicated feelings about that. So I'm like, Okay,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: what are we going to? What do we want to create?
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: So it's really empowering to say what do you want?
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Who do you want to be? What kind of life
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: do you want to live? You know, what do you
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: want to do every day? How do you want you've
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: been given this life, this body, this, this family, this,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: you know, whatever you have, Like what do you want
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: to do? And to own that? And then your mind
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: starts to expand because we are creative beings of like
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: what is possible?
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Is this possible? Is this possible? And you start to
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: move forward. And when you're doing any creative process, you know,
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: like I love to paint, or I love to play
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: the piano, I love to do improvisation, you know, all
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: these different things. You get lost in that creative flow.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: That's when you find joy. That is the purpose of life. Right,
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: parenting and my best mothering moments, that is a creative
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: flow where you're not just like I do this and
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: then you say that it's no, we're just oh this
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: is different than I thought it was. Oh my kids
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: are different than I thought they were. Isn't this great?
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: You know they're they're creating their own lives. You're creating
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: your own lives. It's a much more empowering, joyful experience.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Th And I got to start over from scratch. Now
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: you don't start over from scratch. Your life is still
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: your life. You're still who you are. You might be
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: you know, knocked in the face with the two by
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: four a couple of times, or maybe more than a
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: couple of times repeatedly, but you're still creating something. And
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: one thing that I've learned is is that in the
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: creative process, the end is never what you think it's
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: going to be, because that's part of the process. You
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: make a lot of mistakes when you're creating in any
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: artistic endeavor. That's part of the process. It's not like, oh,
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: things have gone horribly wrong, I'm off path. Okay, now
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: how do I get on path? And you know, get
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: married and do the pro It's not that you're just
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: creating your process and it's leading you to places and
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: to be how you never imagined. And that's what's possible
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: because you know, the if we really believe, and I
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: do as a Christian of a loving, expansive heavenly Father
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: who cares about me and loves me, then then the
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: ideas his ways are not my ways. They are so
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: expansive that like my brain really can't even accomplish like
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: or cannot understand it, but I can participate in it
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: by creating. And so I'm so sad how I feel
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: about on my best days, about how to move forward
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: for creating you and everyone is doing this no matter
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: what their marital status is, no matter what trauma they're
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: experiencing or not experience. We're all doing this on some level.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: It's just those of us who have been through a
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: lot of change just feel it more. You can't pretend
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: like you don't see it so clearly.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: So here's the thought I would, I thank you, this
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: is this is perfect to come to conclusion. This is
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: really when you say co creating with God. I look
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: at it and anyone whether they're divorced, married, yeah, widowed,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: whatever it is to be able to turn to God
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: and tell him what you would like, but being open
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: to what he his will is for you. Like we
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: have the ability to move forward with our goals and dreams,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: and God wants us to be successful. He wants us
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: to have joy. Now, his path may be a little
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: bit different than our straight linear thought of how we're
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: going to get there, but this idea of empowering every
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: single one of us who's listening to watching that today
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: you can get on your knees and talk to God
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: and say this is the life that I would want
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: to be living and if it's a worthwhile righteous desire.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: Well, it's hard to ask, guys. I don't want to yeah,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: I don't mean to interrupt. I don't want to underestimate
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: how difficult it is to ask for good things. When
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: you have asked for good things and you know that
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: God knows that that was a good thing to ask for,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: and you didn't get it and the answer was no
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: for a myriad of reasons that maybe you don't even know.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: That's hard to say because a little bit, you know,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: you just kind of want to put your hands up
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: and be like, fine, well, then what do you want?
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: I had a really great idea, you know, and that
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: really requires us myself to get over myself and to
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: stay open and to stay curious about the good things
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: that are waiting for us that we don't even know
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: to ask for yet because they don't exist yet, but
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: they're out there. I mean, that is creation. Creation, It
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: is fundamental, is to bringing into existence something that doesn't
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: exist before. And that has helped me to get through
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: those moments of like, well what do I ask for now?
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, the answer is no, so well now what?
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Now what? And it's this calibration of still wanting good
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: things and humbly like asking and working towards them, and
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: also being open to the will of God as we're
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: trying to decipher it looking through a glass darkly.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: I've always had to move forward when I need to
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: make a big life decision. For me, I've never been
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: able to get a clear this is exactly what you're
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: supposed to do. I've had to make the choice myself
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: and say, okay, I've got these two options. Both are good,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: but I've had to choose one and move forward in
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: that direction, not knowing until after I started.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Now do you see in hindsight? Do you get to
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: see in hindsight, oh, yeah, that was the right decision,
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: or oh maybe it wasn't the best for sure.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: It's that weird because because I've had to go back,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: you know, go down a direction and be like, oh
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: that was not ith and retreat and say, okay, let
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: me try again. I'll go down this path. But other
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: times you go down and you start to feel okay,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: this is I think this is the right direction, and
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: you move. That's how it's worked for me to receive
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: answers to my prayers as I don't know. And then
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: there's also the going through the heart, because even though
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: we want this certain life to be rosy and shiny,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: it's not going to be that way. That's God's plan.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: And we know that intellectually, but I think sometimes we
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: don't really believe it in our heart. I don't think
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: we're the exception. If we're being blessed, then it has
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: to look and feel a certain way, and I think
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: we kind of ascribe certain ideas to God that may
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: not be accurate. Well, if God wanted this for me,
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: then he would like.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: You know, like, honey, if you really loved me, he would.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like And we say weird things like that where
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: we are putting something, you know, instead of being open
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: to discovering what the truth really is.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: I think for me also, just the level of healing
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: over the last two or three years, I don't know
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: if it would have been possible without having to go
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: through a divorce that I hate that, yeah, because I
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: don't want that. I didn't want that, and I don't
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: want anybody have to go through that. But at the
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: same time, I can now look back and there is
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: a gratitude of saying that I have much more to
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: change and become. But this becoming over the last two
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: or three years has been dramatic for me, and I
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: can now say that I'm grateful for the depth that
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: I had to dive into my own self, and that
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I would have on my own
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: And I hate to say that, it's almost embarrassing for
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: me to say it. I don't know if I would
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: have found that level of healing without having gone through
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: something hard. So it feels like whether it was the
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: divorce I had to go through or some other life
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: happening that was going to happen right at some point,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: God knew that I needed to accomplish something, whether it's
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: you know, learning to heal or learning to dig deeper,
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: and it would have happened one way, shape or form.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: I truly believe that. And this was just my version
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: of that experience. And so you've obviously had your version
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: of that experience. And I'm sure we will be done
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: with our learning experiences.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: And we're all doing that when we interact with each
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: other and walk down the street. You know, I think
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: that this whole experience, especially seeing my late husband, who
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: was such a good man and so funny, so funny.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: And I only say that because you know, it's so
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: funny all the things that as you heal, as you like,
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: kind of come out of the fog of grief that
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: you realize like, oh yeah, another thing I lost that
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know I lost at the time, was
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: you know, the you know, the humor of this or
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: the you know, little things or that kinds of things.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: But that's true of all of us. We don't live like,
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: you know, one life and then things go terribly wrong
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: and somehow we need to get you know. On course,
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: we all have our own path, and when we meet
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: each other in the grocery store or on a podcast
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: or at work or whatever, we're all kind of going
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: through this, whether we acknowledge it or not. And it
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: has made me just it has really made me a
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: lot kinder to other people well because I just think, oh, yeah,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: nobody knew what was in my head for these few years.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: So that's true of all of us, Like I don't
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: know what they're going through. So I'm going to cut
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: you some slack because I just remember thinking, you know,
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: and going through that, especially when it's so new of
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: like different words or phrases could have like just cut
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: me and destroyed me. And you kind of want to
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: retreat and you kind of want to leave, like you're
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: Like I said earlier, like I understand why some people
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: opt out now of life in a way that I
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: never understood before because I'm an extrovert and I just
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: love people and things like that, and I like, oh,
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: now I know because sometimes this is so painful to
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: be reminded of your pain or what you've lost or
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: a million different things. So I think we can all
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: be a lot kinder to each other.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: It feels to me like you're describing when you can
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: see people for who they truly are, not knowing what
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: they're going through. That that is where charity comes into play.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: I never unsee it.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: If you can see I just hope anybody if you
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: could try to see people the way that Jesus would
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: see them. You don't none of us know what everyone's
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: dealing with and the depths that they're dealing with it,
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: So to be able to see people in a more
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: holistic way, I just think it would change.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: Would you give us like each like perspective, just to
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: like put down that weight that we're all carrying of,
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: just like the burdens of like everyone's thinking this or
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: I need to show up to be a good friend
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: like this, and I just don't have the strength to
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: do this today or to show up like this for
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: my kids today. I just can just put it down.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: And we're all like, it's okay, we're all here to
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: help each other. We don't have to do it alone,
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: but boy, we think we do.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: Lisa, you are awesome. I'm so glad you came. You
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: got to tell everybody where can everyone find you? So
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: you're online? Tell them, tell them everything.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: Listen to the Lisa Show podcast. I try to take
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: all the good things that people have learned and had
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: conversations been like, Okay, tell me what you got, tell
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: me what you really know. It's like, you know, phoning
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: a friend for help or going to lunch with a
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: good friends. So hope you'll check that out.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: That's on YouTube, that's on Instagram.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Anywhere you get your podcasts, uh huh. And I also
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: have a Counsel of Moms podcast where we talk about
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: all things parenting, and that one's just we just come
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: miserate together and just be like what should we do now? What?
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: How do you raise a little kids?
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: Good?
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: What do you got? And it's it's really fun. I've
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: learned a lot from those those women.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: So what's your Instagram handles so people can.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: At your funny Valentine, that is your Try not to
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: take myself too seriously, but.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: You are at You just shared a ton of wisdom.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing your experience being open, vulnerable. This
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: is what it's all about. So you guys, thank you
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: for being here the Fatherhood Movement Podcast. I'm your host,
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: Bubba Page, Thank you, Lisa. Thanks, we'll talk to you.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: Oh you're awesome. Thanks, give me a hug.