Transcript

John Bowe · Rusty's Garage

0:02
A listener production.
0:13
I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust and this is Rusty's Garage.
0:33
In this episode, I'm at Winton Motor Raceway in Northern Victoria, not all that far from the New South Wales border.
0:40
It's an open practice day with all sorts of cars and drivers cutting laps, most fine-tuning for a new season of racing.
0:50
Hall of Famer John Bowe is here driving the V8-powered Holden Tirana he races in the Touring Car Masters, cars that tip the hat to a special era in Australian motorsport.
1:02
Bauer's CV is comprehensive and very impressive.
1:06
A winner in just about everything he turns his hand to.
1:10
He's battled some demons as well, but his tonic is racing, and JB has and continues to raise awareness for depression.
1:19
That's something I really admire, just as much as the titles and trophies he's amassed over the years.
1:25
He just loves cars, and has done since he was a young bloke growing up on the Apple Isle.
1:32
Well, I mean, I was around it all the time.
1:34
From the moment I can remember, which is obviously a very long time ago, I recall always having some form of racing car in our garage.
1:46
It's a little suburban house with a raccoon.
1:49
you know a garage out the back a detached garage and there was always something in there an mg or austin healey later on my dad looked after a car like as a mechanic that was an allard which is a bit ironic because my my friend now joe collegia's got an old allard which is you know like a lovely old car but very old um so i've always i was always interested in it then my dad got a an mg as a
2:14
a race car with a supercharger and as a family we all went to the races so when Simmons Plains opened we were there you know that was 1960 I think I was only a little kid but so it just evolved mate really it was not like I thought I want to be a racing driver it's just just happened for some reason
2:32
Those early days where you went to Simmons Plains in Tasmania, your home state, I mean, they clearly left a huge impression.
2:39
You told a colleague of mine, Andrew Van Leeuwen, that you admired those old days of racing when the likes of, you know, the legendary Jim Clark would tackle three different classes and basically race all day, wouldn't they?
2:51
Yes, they did, yeah.
2:52
Like, even some of the Aussie guys used to do it a bit.
2:54
I mean, you know, the Davison clan, their grandfather, Lex, who was very well known in the day, he used to drive various cars during the day.
3:04
Bibb Stuhl used to drive various cars.
3:08
You know, it was more accepted then.
3:09
Nowadays, not many people do it because I think it's become much more scientific.
3:14
And the guys, say supercars, for instance, which is the highest level in Australia, they spend half their life debriefing and looking at data and sitting in the back of a trailer with an engineer or two.
3:27
You know, it's just so time-consuming where...
3:30
Back in the day, you know, nobody did all that.
3:33
They got out of their cars and they had a smoke and had a bit of a chat and went and did another one.
3:40
I want to share a yarn, if you're comfortable with it, that you told at a function that we did together in recent time.
3:47
And it involves your first road car.
3:50
If memory serves, it was a VW Beetle that your dad had bought you, and you snuck it out without him telling, without him knowing, rather.
3:58
Did it catch fire?
3:59
Is that right what happened?
4:00
Well, it was the reason I started racing in a funny sort of way, because...
4:08
I actually bought it myself.
4:09
I was working after school and my dad didn't know I had it.
4:12
So I snuck out and drove it because I left it at the little workshop where I worked.
4:18
And I went to a blue light disco one night and I offered in a...
4:26
because I'm a very gallantry bloke, I offered this young lady a ride home and I ran out of petrol.
4:33
And anyway, it was a very likely story.
4:36
Full disaster.
4:37
I managed to persuade her to hop into the back for a cuddle and we shorted out the battery on the seat.
4:43
So the car did catch fire and obviously the girl never spoke to me again.
4:49
And my father found out about it and he said to me, and I remember his words to this day, if you're going to behave like an idiot, you better behave like an idiot on the track where everybody's going the same way.
4:59
So hence, we went halves in a little Formula V, which was an Elfin.
5:04
And yeah, it all started there all because of an old Volkswagen.
5:10
The Elfin, if the stats are right, you were immediately successful in that, weren't you?
5:17
Did you win the Tassie title in your first year, is it?
5:19
Yes, I did, yes.
5:20
Yeah, I was.
5:21
I was competitive virtually straight away.
5:23
And I mean, whether that's because of I'd had a... My dad never taught me to drive, so I was going to say I had a grounding in it.
5:30
I was just around it all the time.
5:32
One of his very good friends was John McCormack, who was quite a successful national driver.
5:36
You know, he won the Gold Star and whatnot.
5:38
And, you know, a little kid always hangs on the words of people like that, so...
5:44
As soon as I started racing, it was sort of like I knew what to do.
5:48
I didn't have to learn anything because I already knew it.
5:51
So it was unusual to some degree.
5:54
I mean, I still see lots of families continue on nowadays racing, but back then it wasn't that common.
6:02
Did you get your car licence first go?
6:04
Mark Scaife told me recently he failed his first attempt for overconfidence.
6:09
Did you get yours at first ground?
6:11
I've always been overconfident.
6:15
Yeah, I got it first go, but I got it when I was 15.
6:18
So I put my age up because I, you know, I wanted to drive.
6:23
And after the Volkswagen incident, the old man twigged to me driving around without a licence.
6:28
So I put my age up and I used to go to the police station.
6:33
And they just said, what's your date of birth?
6:35
And I put my age up and I drove around the block.
6:38
I got a license.
6:40
So there you go.
6:41
I mean, I didn't have any overconfidence.
6:43
I was just a bullshitter.
6:46
The early part of your career, I mean, you talked about the Formula V there a moment ago.
6:49
It was all open wheels, wasn't it?
6:52
Was that the dream to go off and, you know, maybe perhaps, you know, in addition to doing national Formula Ford and other bits and pieces, was the dream to go overseas?
7:03
Well, I mean, anybody that grew up in that era, I...
7:08
I had dreams of being a Formula One driver because at that stage, Tim Schenken was a Formula One driver.
7:17
you know, Sir Jack Brabham, obviously, and we'd had, we were about to get Alan Jones, you know, who was very successful and won a world championship.
7:25
So, you know, anybody, any driver wanted to be a world champion, but quite honestly, I didn't know how to.
7:30
So I lived in Tassie.
7:32
I was from a small town.
7:33
I was, you know, I mean, I was very grateful to be able to race outside Tasmania and that was purely because of Gary Cooper from Elphin, who, you know, recognised something in me and gave me an opportunity.
7:48
In my own back of my mind, I have a regret that I didn't go to Europe, but I didn't know how to.
7:53
You know, like I honestly didn't know how to.
7:55
I know that sounds silly, you just get on a plane and go, but when you're a small town boy, it's not that easy.
8:02
Talk more, tell us more about the whole Elfin side of things.
8:06
I mean, Gary Cooper founded that legendary designer, built some amazing cars, and Formula 5000 in that era in this country, they were brutal machines, but to the big crowds and spectators that went to watch, they were an addictive thing, weren't they, or an amazing car?
8:22
Yeah, they were.
8:23
I mean, it started in 1970, so that was before my time, but in the latter part of it, I drove in...
8:31
Formula 5000 because of Gary Cooper.
8:33
I drove, you know, it was a factory Ansett, Team Elfin, Formula 5000.
8:38
And the people, the crowd loved them because they were big, fast and noisy.
8:43
They had big tyres, they had big noise, you know, and they were quick.
8:48
And if you see them at a historic meeting, they're still quick.
8:51
So...
8:52
you know to get an opportunity in that when I was only you know I'd only raced a Formula 3 car which had 130 horsepower so I went from 130 horsepower to nearly 500 horsepower and what did it weigh?
9:07
I think they were about 700 kilos something it was pretty fast so
9:10
Pretty fast.
9:10
So when the first couple of times I raced it, I asked him, Gary, if he'd lengthen the throttle travel a bit, you know, like so.
9:17
So it had this big, long throttle travel because it was a pretty snarly thing.
9:22
So, but after a while, you know, when I went right at it and...
9:26
consequently got opportunities at other things.
9:29
But they're trying to get a new Formula 5000 off the ground, S5000, which is conceptually fantastic.
9:37
And Gary Rogers Motorsport has, I think, taken on the project to build the cars.
9:42
And hopefully it'll get going because they, that car is a modern version of a Formula 5000.
9:48
You know, it's got a big engine, 570 odd horsepower, big tires.
9:53
You know, it's just everything it should be.
9:55
So I hope that it'll get off the ground.
9:58
But Australia's very reticent about open wheelers.
10:01
Always has been.
10:03
That period of your career as well, there's sports cars as well.
10:07
We often, and I would imagine this happens to you regularly at race meetings and things, the standout is the Viscanda, isn't it?
10:16
Tell us about that car, and I think, if I'm correct, it still is the fastest, most powerful Australian-built sports car ever, is that correct?
10:27
Certainly the fastest, I don't know about the most powerful, but in that period, it was built by a group in Adelaide, still exists, K&A Engineering.
10:36
It was Dale Connachy and Harry Aust, it's now run by Dale Connachy's son.
10:43
But they were clever guys, you know, they were backroom boys but had lots of brains.
10:48
You know, there's a lot of those people in motorsport that don't get, you know, hailed as a hero, but they're actually very clever.
10:55
And they built this car for a guy in Adelaide called Bernie Van Elsen, who was a...
11:01
a very, very good professional photographer.
11:03
Used to do a lot of stuff for Mitsubishi.
11:06
And they asked me to drive it, asked me to test it, and then when I tested it, you know, then they conned Bernie into letting me drive it, basically, because Bernie had it built for himself.
11:17
So it was just a fantastic car.
11:19
It was obviously better than everything else.
11:21
And we set lap records everywhere, all around the country.
11:24
So I drove it in 86 and 87, and then Dick Johnson and I drove it at the Sandown six-hour race in 88 against all the world sports cars.
11:33
But the world sports cars were a category that had a fuel consumption allowance, a fuel allowance, and that thing used too much fuel, so we ended up running out of fuel.
11:43
But it was a beautiful car.
11:45
Like, it had the last lap record that...
11:48
stayed at Surface Paradise Raceway.
11:52
It still held that.
11:54
When it closed it held the Adelaide International Raceway outright lap record.
11:59
It held the Calder
12:01
you know big long circuit outright lap record it was just a beaut car and later on I drove it again it's quite a funny story so I last time I drove was 88 in 2000 Bernie rang me and he said would you drive the the candor at uh he used to always call it the candor
12:20
the candor at Phillip Island Historics.
12:22
And I said, yeah, if you get Dale and Harry to prep it, yes, I will, because they, you know, are good at it.
12:27
I didn't want to drive something that was going to kill me.
12:30
And so we went down to Phillip Island and everything was the same.
12:34
It was 12 years later, same blokes, all older, you know, me included.
12:39
I used the same seat because I was a bit slimmer than I am now.
12:42
So it was just like back in time.
12:43
It was fantastic.
12:44
And we did a, I think I did a 27 or a 28 in it or something, which was quite fast at the time.
12:50
It was just a great car.
12:51
It's owned now by Paul Stubber.
12:53
And Paul took it overseas.
12:55
But overseas, they let you modify quite a lot of stuff.
12:58
You're allowed to use different wheels and all sorts of things.
13:01
So he went quite well on it.
13:03
And when he brought it back here, then, of course, it doesn't fit in the cam's rules anymore.
13:07
So it's unfortunately lying idle at the moment, which is a bit sad.
13:11
Very.
13:12
Did it start out life, I think, with a five litre power plant, but in the end it had a 5.8, I think.
13:17
What kind of horsepower and things like that?
13:20
It had a five litre to start with just for a little tiny while and then they put a 350 in it.
13:25
It didn't have a lot of horsepower, but for the period it was probably all right.
13:29
It had about 5, 60, 70.
13:31
I mean, out of a 350 Chev now, you can get 700 easy.
13:34
So, but it was, what it did have, it had fantastic aerodynamics.
13:40
because they understood ground effects, you know, it was a ground effects car and it had amazing grip, especially in the wet, you know, like in the wet, it used to shoot rooster tails out the back and straight up in the air for some reason, I don't know why, some aerodynamic thing.
13:56
But it was a great time, you know, like they were both characters and they were good guys.
14:01
And, you know, Dale used to, he would change the gear ratios for me once over the weekend.
14:07
So he wouldn't do it any other time.
14:09
So I had to really be careful and think about it because he'd go, what do you want?
14:12
He used to call me the driver.
14:15
What sort of ratios does the driver want?
14:16
And I'd go, hang on, I need to think about this because I know you'll only do it once, you know.
14:19
So it was just good times.
14:21
A lot more simple than things are now because there's much more science involved.
14:47
People can Google it.
14:49
V-E-S-K-A-N-D-A, C1.
14:52
Beautiful mid-engine, closed-top sports car.
14:56
But your move into touring car racing was with a vehicle anything but like that, wasn't it?
15:03
What did Mike Raymond or one of the Channel 7 boys christen the Volvo?
15:06
It was the Swedish brick or something.
15:08
Oh, no, I think the...
15:11
I think it was Dick Johnson.
15:13
I think he called it the Swedish taxi or the Swedish valiant.
15:16
I think he called it the Swedish valiant.
15:18
But, I mean, it was an opportunity for me that was really, when you look back over your motor racing life, it was pretty important.
15:26
But at the time, it was just, you know, getting a drive in something.
15:30
So, you know, I tried to...
15:33
I got to know everybody in the touring car world, you know, the Brocks and the Moffats and all the people that ran teams, Fred Gibson and all those guys.
15:43
Yeah, so I ended up getting a drive in the Volvo for Sandown Bathurst in 1985 with Robbie Franszowicz.
15:53
It was a car that was owned by Mark Pitch at that stage.
15:55
And then the next year they decided they formed an organisation called Volvo Dealer Team.
16:00
It was funded by Volvo Australia and the dealers, Volvo Dealers.
16:06
And I was the sort of second, taken on as the second driver.
16:10
So the team at that stage had moved to the care of John Sheppard at Calder Raceway.
16:16
And then shortly thereafter, the second car turned up, which was from Sweden, and it was their test car, a right-hand drive car, where the other car was, left-hand drive.
16:29
And so I made my appearance as a touring car driver
16:34
properly and I think it was the third round of the championship in Adelaide in 19, Adelaide Raceway, 1986.
16:41
Yeah, so it was very, you know, I mean, important, although at that stage Volvo was not...
16:50
Didn't have a lot of street cred, you know, like people used to make fun of old guys.
16:54
Because you had to have a bowling hat to drive them.
16:57
But in actual fact, it was quite a good race car.
17:00
And I qualified on the front row in my very first race.
17:03
And then the second race was in Perth at Wanneroo as it was then.
17:08
And I qualified on pole.
17:09
So I made quite a, you know, an impact, I think.
17:14
I didn't take much notice of it, but...
17:16
If someone did that now, you'd take notice of one, yeah.
17:45
That's a significant shift, I mean, for the sports car and open wheel background that you'd had.
17:51
The move to touring cars was a significant one.
17:53
Firstly, I guess that it probably gave you a sense of stability and, you know, you could make this a proper living.
18:01
Well, I didn't know about a proper living, but when I did the deal with the Volvo dealer team, it was a guy called Bob Atkin, who was sort of the chairman of the dealer councils.
18:14
He was from Scuderi Veloce.
18:17
since passed away, but a lovely man, and James Smith, who had Mantons in Melbourne that was a Volvo dealer, and John Shepard, and it was properly done.
18:26
We had a contract, and I thought, wow, this is... And they actually paid me.
18:30
It wasn't a lot of money, but I thought, gee, how long has this been going on?
18:34
It's not bad.
18:36
It was the 240T.
18:38
You and I have been at a couple of historical legend-based meetings in recent years where you've been reunited with the car.
18:44
What were your first impressions, and what's it like to drive 30 years on?
18:48
Well, it's... You kind of forget the bad bits.
18:53
It's like meeting an old girlfriend.
18:56
You forget the bad bits, the tempers or the temperamentalness.
19:00
It's actually a good car to drive, but I'd forgotten, as you know, recently we raced at Hampton Downs and I'd forgotten how easily it pops up onto two wheels.
19:09
And it always was like that.
19:11
But back in 1986, I didn't know any different.
19:14
Now I've driven a lot of different cars, so I do know different.
19:17
I know when it's about to tip over onto a roof.
19:20
But it was a good car.
19:22
Like in its day, it was as good as any.
19:25
But in 88, I mean 86 the end of the year, the team broke up.
19:32
I've always thought probably because of the Francivic controversy who got sacked at the end of the year by John Shepard and the team disbanded, unfortunately, or it may have been because Volvo were caught in Europe using fudgy fuel.
19:49
I don't know.
19:50
I don't know the truth, but that's what I suspect.
19:53
So, 87, there was no Volvo in Australia, but it would have still been competitive in 87.
19:58
But 88, the Sierras moved the goalposts, you know, the RS500, and that was just so much better than everything else.
20:05
You know, it had, the Volvo had, I think, at its peak 320 or 30 horsepower or something.
20:11
and the Sierras instantly had over 500, so that was the end of it.
20:16
But to race it now in historics is still fun.
20:19
You know, you're not going to win anything in it, but that doesn't matter to me.
20:22
It's just fun.
20:23
I've had some great duels in the last couple of years in it, and I've driven it about three or four times with Jimmy Richards in a BMW, you know, which is just like going back in time.
20:34
Yeah, yeah, just like Amaru in 86 or, you know, a...
20:39
Orin Park, we had this massive battle in 86 at Orin Park.
20:44
He couldn't get past me either.
20:46
I think that's how I started to get my reputation, a bit hard to pass.
20:50
In the gap between the stint with Dick Johnson Racing, which is a really standout part of your career, you did some Enduros with Glenn Seaton at Nissan, but give me a sense of...
21:04
When the opportunity to go and work for Dick came about, did you do that?
21:08
Were they reaching out to you?
21:09
How did it all come together?
21:12
Well, he tells, as you've heard, he tells a different story to mine.
21:16
He reckons I sent him a Christmas card.
21:19
And maybe I did.
21:20
I can't recall it.
21:21
I did send him one later, of course, you know, as I stayed there with his team for 11 years.
21:26
So, of course, I sent him a Christmas card.
21:28
But as I recall it, he
21:32
He rang me one day at my dad's work, where I worked, and he said, what are you doing next year in typical, you know, laconic Dick Johnson manner?
21:43
And I said, oh, I'm talking to a few different people.
21:45
And he goes, well, don't do anything till you call me, whatever that means, you know.
21:52
So in a few weeks' time, I called him, because I hadn't heard anything, and I said, oh, I reckon I can get a drive in a Commodore, and he goes, oh, I'll ring you back.
22:00
He rang me back a couple of hours later and said, yeah, you know, you've got to drive, you've got to gig.
22:05
So we hadn't discussed anything, money, money.
22:08
I was hoping there was some money after the Volvo experience, but I didn't...
22:11
It wasn't the centre of my world.
22:14
I just wanted to, you know, race in a decent car.
22:17
I went up to test, met all the guys.
22:20
This is when Neil Lowe was there and they'd really got the cars working well, particularly the engine management.
22:26
And the bloody thing was fast, you know.
22:27
So all of a sudden I'm in a top team.
22:30
You know, not that the Volvo wasn't a top team, but it just continued a momentum on.
22:34
And I was, you know, I quite often say to people, I...
22:38
you know, trailed around on his coat dials for years.
22:40
You know, like he was a hero, like Peter Brock was a hero, in a time when motorsport had heroes, you know, and they were the only two, I reckon.
22:50
Leon's has been part thereof since, but not like those two.
22:54
Those two had a massive, massive following, so I didn't have to do anything.
22:58
I didn't have to do any promotions, didn't do anything.
23:01
I just turned up, drove the car, went home.
23:04
Were you different in what you wanted from the car than him?
23:07
I mean, he had that famous, you know, almost Larry Lounge lizard racing position.
23:13
You were more up on the wheel, weren't you?
23:14
Yeah, I was.
23:16
I've come back a little bit, but I'm still up on the wheel a bit.
23:18
But, yeah, we did.
23:22
I guess as I learnt the arts of touring cars and the nuances of touring cars, I became more and more technical as I went along.
23:33
And, you know, after a year or two, Neil...
23:37
It was different to now.
23:38
You know, you had a team boss was Neil Lowe, and what Neil Lowe said went.
23:43
You know, and you had a mechanic on your car.
23:46
And...
23:48
If you wanted to change something, you had to have a very good story, because they set them up in the workshop and that's where they were.
23:53
But later on, Neil started to use me as a test dummy or something.
24:00
And then when Ross Stone joined DJR for 92, he changed the cars a bit and used me quite a lot for the feedback.
24:10
I think, that's not to say that I'm wonderful at it, but I think as a racing driver in single-seaters,
24:16
your sense of feel is more tuned.
24:19
That's what I reckon, anyway.
24:21
And I always remember Freddie Gibson ended up putting Glenn Seton in a single-seater for a year just to hone his feel.
24:30
So, you know, and I've always had, I think, quite reasonable feel for cars.
24:34
I mean, I've had a...
24:36
Many times I've disappeared up the wrong alley because everybody can, but I still...
24:40
I like that part of it.
24:41
I like the car...
24:43
I think you have to have enough brain space, and I'm not saying this as an intellectual because I'm clearly not, but I think you have enough brain space to drive the car and understand what's going on as well, so you can actually, nowadays supercars have engineers, data engineers, you know, it's very complex now, but back in those days you'd made the calls yourself basically.
25:07
What was the Sierra like to drive to begin with when you first set foot in it?
25:13
And then it's a thing that's come up a couple of times in the podcast series.
25:17
I mean, at the end, what the Australian teams were doing was absolutely world class with those cars, wasn't it?
25:24
Particularly DJR in those early years, 88, 89, they'd lost their way a bit in 90.
25:32
But yeah, they were very light switchy.
25:35
They, you know, 4,500 revs, they'd get on the boost massively.
25:40
And they were super strong when they were on the boost.
25:43
But under that, like I'd say 3,000 or 3,500.
25:48
There's nothing happening.
25:49
I mean, if you've ever driven an old Porsche 930 Turbo on the road, it's sort of like that.
25:55
You know, you drive along, put your foot flat on the floor, count to about five, and then it takes off.
26:00
So that's what they were like.
26:01
And unbeknownst to – because there wasn't any data collection, unbeknownst to anybody, including me, you developed a way around it to drive it.
26:09
So you actually –
26:11
As you brake for the corner, you make your downshifts or whatever, turn the wheel, stand on the throttle straight away, flat out open throttle.
26:17
And as you went across the apex, you would back off the throttle.
26:21
So it was totally back to front to what you normally do.
26:24
But you just did that because that was the way to drive them.
26:26
So you had to get the boost up and then control the boost.
26:29
So it was, I've since driven a DJR car that Terry Lawler owns, races in.
26:36
It's a very original car, but it's got a later model engine management system on it, like a Motec.
26:42
Yeah.
26:42
And it's fantastic to drive, you know, because it's modern day technology.
26:48
Yeah.
26:49
And it's got so much more throttle response and all that.
26:52
I drove it at Adelaide a couple of years ago at the Motorsport Festival and I thought, oh, this is going to be a dog.
26:57
You know, this is going to be a dog.
26:58
Always things are when you go back 20 or 30 years.
27:02
And yet it was fantastic.
27:03
I could not get the smile off my face.
27:04
It was just awesome.
27:06
And it also had, you know, modern-day tyres too, which obviously are a big help.
27:11
We used to burn the tyres off from someone fearful.
27:13
But, you know, you don't realise how far motorsport's come, to be honest, even in a touring car sense.
27:22
It's just science, you know, everyone's... Back in those days, there wasn't a qualified engineer in the pit lane.
27:30
Not a guy that had been to uni, you know, and had degrees.
27:34
Now the place is full of them, absolutely full of them.
27:37
Genius types.
27:38
So it was, you know...
27:40
I'm not one for saying times were better in those days, but it was much simpler anyway.
27:45
You know, you just got in your car and you drove it and you might have adjusted a shock or an anti-roll bar or something, but you enjoyed it.
27:52
It was very enjoyable.
27:52
It was very enjoyable.
27:54
I want to deviate with a couple of quick funny stories here.
27:57
First one, a very young Stephen Johnson says you had your own apartment or wing in the Johnson household that you would stay in when you're up that way.
28:08
And he recalls someone in the depth of night raiding the fridge.
28:15
Was that you?
28:17
Did you have the bow suite at the... Oh, yeah, yeah.
28:20
Well, we used to call it the bow suite.
28:22
They had a really nice house.
28:24
They've moved a long time ago, but it was at Daisy Hills, and it had this, you know, kind of a...
28:30
a bedroom and an ensuite and you know it was a nice really it was very nice very nice so they affectionately became known as the bower suite and jewel used to always have you know the fresh towels and i spent a fair bit of time there you know and they'd stolen shampoo and soap from all around the world you know so that was all in like a hotel it was like it was it was better than a hotel yeah and and stevie jay was only a young guy you know and uh
28:56
He used to drive me mad.
28:57
Like, he'd sit down at the table with me and he'd... Because his dad... Because he was his dad, he firstly didn't take much notice of his dad.
29:06
And secondly, I'm not sure Dick could be bothered telling him, but he used to suck my brain dry.
29:12
I used to go to bed with a headache because he, like me...
29:16
Questions about racing and cars.
29:17
Yes, yes, racing and doing, you know, how do you do this and how do you do that and, you know, all that sort of stuff, you know.
29:22
He was, and subsequently, I mean, he's a very fine driver.
29:27
He's a far better driver than his Supercar results would suggest.
29:31
Mm-hmm.
29:33
He was always immensely talented, I thought, as a kid even, when he first started racing his little sports sedan.
29:38
So I've got a lot of time for him.
29:41
He's like my little brother or my big brother, you know?
29:44
Yeah.
29:45
He's so funny.
29:46
We did have some funny times, though, I've got to say.
29:48
We have better times now, though, in the Turingco Masters.
29:51
He tells me that one of those funny moments
29:54
was the pair of you coming home, I think, from a Dunlop tyre test to the Story Bridge.
29:58
And it was back in the day where you had a, I guess the early incarnation of a tag.
30:03
He was leading and he was going to tell the lady at the toll gates that you would come through and you were meant to grab the tag on your way through so it paid for both cars.
30:13
Do you recall what happened next?
30:15
What happened?
30:16
I know what happened.
30:16
It was the gateway bridge and you had a toll.
30:19
And I was on the phone, obviously, which is not a good thing to do.
30:24
Back then, you're allowed to do it, though.
30:26
And I just took off and the boom came down and bounced over the roof.
30:30
It was a Ford...
30:32
Motor Company cars, all these little dents as the boom had bounced along the roof.
30:36
He thought it was hilarious.
30:37
I didn't think it was so funny.
30:40
I'll bet.
30:41
You get to win Bathurst with DJs.
30:43
I mean, that must have just been a huge box ticket, a very special feeling for you.
30:49
Yes, it was.
30:51
See, the 87, like 85 was my debut at Bathurst with Francivic, which wasn't a wonderful experience, I have to say.
31:01
But 86, we ran there as the Volvo dealer team.
31:04
Well, the car was good, fast, but it broke a rear suspension.
31:08
And then I took over the other car, which we finished 10th in, which, you know, it was no big deal.
31:14
So, yeah.
31:16
The next year I drove with Glenn Seton and after the Eggenberger disqualification, we ended up second, Glenn and I, in the Nissan.
31:23
So I'd come second.
31:24
In 88, I drove with Dick for the first time.
31:26
We came second again, primarily because it was an FIA accident.
31:34
the guy that was controlling the rules at the time was sent out here by the FIA and he made everybody turn their car off in the pit stops and ours wouldn't start.
31:43
So they changed the starter motor.
31:45
So we came second with the starter motor change.
31:47
We could have won it quite comfortably, but we didn't.
31:51
We could have won a lot of Bathurst, but we didn't.
31:54
So in 89, the car was at its best, really.
31:57
And we, you know, I mean, I was the co-driver and I was certainly happy to be the co-driver
32:03
The car was fast and we led every single lap of the race.
32:09
Every single lap.
32:10
Didn't even get past in the pit stops.
32:14
So...
32:16
That was a pretty good record, but I was, you know, quite...
32:18
It was only my second year in the team.
32:20
I didn't feel as much a part of it as I did later when we won in the Falcon.
32:23
That was very much part of my team then, you know, and I had a great rapport with it.
32:28
I'd had quite a lot to do with the, you know, the development of the car in engineering terms and set-up terms and all that.
32:35
So that was much more satisfying to me.
32:38
But the...
32:40
The first one, I guess, is always...
32:43
The first anything's always good, isn't it?
32:45
Yeah, that's right.
32:46
But, I mean, to dominate in that fashion and to be, you know, that's...
32:49
I think the Eggenburger boys got a shock because Moffat obviously had an Eggenburger car here and he had Eggenburger drivers.
32:58
And we'd just been over to England and even though we didn't...
33:02
In 88, we went to England.
33:04
We didn't beat them because we retired.
33:06
We beat them on pace.
33:08
And I think it was a shock to Rudy's system, you know.
33:12
Always Dick Johnson cars were a shock to Rudy's system, I think.
33:15
Although I say that without knowing Rudy Eggenberger or knew him.
33:19
But, you know, he was the guru.
33:21
He was the factory European, Ford Europe factory team, you know.
33:25
And our things were better.
33:27
So good on Australia.
33:29
Most definitely.
33:30
You talked about DJ before and how huge he was as an icon of sport, not just motor racing really in this country.
33:38
Part of that meant that he would have chats regularly with Channel 7 while the race was unfolding.
33:44
I mean, just remarkable to think that you can do that.
33:46
Did you find that element?
33:48
How did you find that element?
33:49
Because invariably, you would get dialed up at times too.
33:52
I was behind him most of the time in those first couple of years.
33:56
Yeah, I had to at Bathurst.
33:58
Because obviously we had that big camera in the car and they talked to me then, which I didn't like doing.
34:03
And I didn't want to do it.
34:05
It's not like I wanted to be a personality or anything.
34:08
I didn't.
34:09
He used to, Dick always says, oh, I never slow down.
34:12
But I mean, he did slow down because you can't use your brain to drive the car in to make witty conversations.
34:17
You just can't.
34:19
But he did, so I always knew when he was talking, because he'd slowed down and I'd be...
34:24
I didn't want to pass him.
34:25
I have to say here that never once by Neil Lowe or Dick Johnson or anybody else was I ever told not to beat him, ever.
34:33
No kidding.
34:34
I chose not to try for several years.
34:37
I didn't honestly want to.
34:38
I was very grateful to...
34:40
To be part of it.
34:42
You know, it was... At that stage, there wouldn't have been many people being paid to drive a racing car in this country, and I was.
34:48
So it was pretty special.
34:50
I didn't try and beat him.
34:51
It's when Ross came, they sort of...
34:53
It's like they undid the...
34:56
The reins a bit, yeah, the shackles a bit, and it sort of let me off the lead.
35:00
But we always had a great relationship, you know.
35:04
I mean, we never had a harsh word.
35:05
We still haven't had a harsh word.
35:07
We're still friends, you know.
35:10
I introduced him after we were in Hampton Downs recently.
35:14
We went out for dinner that night, and I introduced him to the vodka martini.
35:20
DJ yes he's still the same I think he thought he was James Bond Dick now there is a mental picture I know Dick Johnson auditioning to be James Bond he thought oh geez these are not bad so we had about two or three I mean it was a bit it was very funny that is he's not a martini drinker I'm shocked
35:44
That chapter, mate, from the development of the Falcon, the advent of supercars, Bathurst and tidal winds, things like that, I mean, I know you would ultimately move on, but the fact that you are, all these years later, still friends is tremendous, isn't it?
35:59
Well, yeah, I think it is.
36:00
I think it is.
36:01
I understand him too, and I understand him very well, and I think because of that,
36:08
It helped our relationship, and I think he understands me pretty well, so that helped our relationship.
36:15
Now, the funny thing is, when I did move on, one of our...
36:22
employees who was on my car when I won the championship as a number one mechanic and Later when the Stone brothers left he became the team manager Les Laidlaw.
36:31
He'd gone to work for a guy in Perth called Kevin Otway who set up this team with Caterpillar backing and Essentially they did a bit of a sell job on me.
36:43
You know, I thought oh this would be good and Stephen was lurking in the wings by that stage.
36:47
He'd done some V8
36:49
supercar races and he was and I thought well I'll go I'll leave and I'll get a better quit anyway and because I wouldn't be game to ask Dick for more money you know because if that's I saw it over a number of years anybody that asked for more money was definitely on the outer so I didn't want to be on the outer you know so I didn't ever ask him for more money sometimes he gave me more money
37:16
He had a manager there for a long time called Wayne Caddack who...
37:21
Ultimately ran supercars for a while.
37:22
Great bloke, very fair.
37:24
And he quite often would give me a rise in salary.
37:28
I'm sure it didn't come from deep.
37:30
Anyway, I thought I'll leave and I'll get a bit more money and Stephen will get the gig.
37:34
So then you kill two birds with one stone.
37:37
But it didn't turn out that way.
37:38
Shell didn't want Stephen to come in that early.
37:42
So they ended up with Paul Radisic.
37:46
So Stephen had to step out for a bit longer.
37:47
So all my...
37:49
conniving plans turned to crap really but and dick was pretty dirty on me for a while but you know he he got over it i got over it i should have stayed because i would have been able to sort the au out a lot faster than they did you say that with a like a little bit of a sense of regret but there are i mean in my mind there are no wrong decisions in life like that because you make the best move with what you know at the time and you clearly thought stevie was coming in you thought this other opportunity would be good and and so you went
38:17
Yeah, it did.
38:18
And I mean, I was part of their family.
38:20
So it's not like I, you know, in a team, usually with two drivers, they might pretend they like each other, but they don't.
38:28
You know, they just sub exist so they can feed each other out of their brains, you know, where I was friends with Dick and I was friends with Jill and I was part of their family, you know, in a remote way.
38:40
I used to say to him, look, do you want me to come up to Brisbane and live?
38:43
And he'd go, no way, mate.
38:47
Because I used to, you know, I'd ring up, honestly, I was so much, I was quite intent, I suppose, looking back on it, but every day I'd ring him, every single day, every night I'd ring Jimmy Stone.
38:59
Like, I don't know how I found time to do any work, but I was... Because you missed them.
39:04
Well, I was intricately involved in what was going on, you know.
39:07
I just was...
39:08
It was my life, you know, and it still is in a funny sort of way, so...
39:13
Anyway, it was a good time.
39:14
It was a good time, and the Caterpillar thing turned to... You know, it wasn't as what it was supposed to be, unfortunately.
39:21
It ended up with Kevin had stretched himself too far, and then so...
39:27
Then John Briggs bought the team and moved it to Brisbane, which was no bad thing because it was in Perth.
39:32
But, you know, it just didn't ever gel properly.
39:35
It had some good people, but you need a... A race team is all about people and you need the right mix.
39:43
And it never had the right mix.
39:45
So we had some good performances.
39:46
We had a car at one of the Bathurst 2001 that could have won Bathurst.
39:51
But it didn't because the co-driver I had bashed into someone.
39:56
And yeah, so just the what if, you know, we all have what ifs in motorsport, don't we?
40:13
Can the bad boy's Porsche 911 964 Turbo really catch a Shelby Cobra?
40:18
The top speed of a Cobra, about 265.
40:21
The Porsche, 290.
40:23
Argument settled.
40:24
Would you like me to set directions to the closest airfield?
40:29
You talked about sorting out the AU before.
40:31
I mean, in the history of great supercars, it's not been the most loved of them, but what would it have needed to have been ironed out now that you look back on it and you say that you could have perhaps assisted to sort it out quicker?
40:44
I went to... After I left the CAT team, I went to Brad's, and that was AUs, and we made them work pretty good.
40:51
I mean, it's very fundamental.
40:54
I'm a simple character, so...
40:56
It had a big wing on the back, just like these current cars have got.
41:01
The design ethos in current supercars has gone from making the front work good to making the back work good.
41:10
They've got bigger wings, better airflow onto it.
41:13
They've got more rear grip.
41:15
It makes them easier to drive because it gives you more confidence.
41:18
Then all you have to do is make them turn.
41:21
And a lot of people didn't know how to make them turn.
41:24
And I do know how to make them turn.
41:26
And some people in the Superco world now are suffering the same thing.
41:29
Some know how to make them turn, some don't.
41:32
But it's very fundamental.
41:35
I mean, you look at the wing on the back of a BA and then the wing on the back of this Mustang, like, come on.
41:43
Honestly, I mean, I'm fascinated by Eero stuff, but I reckon it ruins motorising.
41:48
The chapter with Bradley Jones is kind of family orientated again for you too, isn't it?
41:53
Yeah, it is.
41:54
It is, and it was.
41:55
And I look back and I like to, that's why I don't move around too much.
42:00
I like to be in a nice environment where people like you and trust you and, you know, it's just nice.
42:08
And, you know, I found that with Brad.
42:11
I went there with my guy that had been my race mechanic from Dick's who'd then gone to work for Paul Wheel, Phil Curtis.
42:20
Very clever bloke.
42:21
Not academically engineering-wise, but great motor racing feel.
42:25
And he came with me and we...
42:28
I can't beat my drum too much, but we made quite a difference to Brad Jones' team at the time.
42:35
Now Brad Jones' team is vast.
42:37
It's got 40 or 50 people, but then it was only small.
42:40
It was family, both the brothers.
42:42
I knew them from their Formula 4 days.
42:47
It was a nice fit.
42:48
We used to have fun.
42:49
Yeah.
42:50
It was just good, good thing.
42:53
And it's funny, the reason I left there, I knew I was going to stop racing supercars.
42:57
The problem is as you get older, you don't know whether it's you or the car, like you're not going as well.
43:03
A lot of cases I reckon it's more of the car because the more the engineering content came into it and the more the data content came into it,
43:16
the less input the driver had into it.
43:19
So it was sort of like, I did stop at the right time, no question.
43:24
But whether I needed to, I'm not sure.
43:27
I'm still not sure, to be honest, whether I did or not.
43:31
But Andy Jones was there.
43:32
And it's the same deal, you know, like he'd been in the development series.
43:36
He's a terrific guy.
43:39
We got on well, you know, I sort of helped him as much as I could as he was driving a development car.
43:44
So I thought it was, you know, I had an opportunity to drive two places, Paul Crookshank and Larry Perkins with Jack, you know, to a mentor Jack.
43:55
And in hindsight, I should have gone and driven for Larry.
43:58
But it was still, Ford was still actively involved and I had a Ford road car and, you know, you know,
44:05
Your alliances sometimes to motor companies are, how do I say, they're probably built on sticky foundations, you know, like because the personnel change in the companies all the time.
44:18
So someone that might have loved you...
44:20
go somewhere else and the next bloke doesn't love you, you know.
44:23
So in hindsight, another hindsight thing, I should have driven for Larry for that last year.
44:27
I would have had a great time because I like Larry, you know, and I like Jack.
44:30
But anyway, I decided to stay with a Ford car and drove Paul Crookshink's car, which was not a bad car.
44:37
He had a really good little team of people, but it was not a good car either, you know.
44:41
It didn't have the latest engine spec and...
44:46
It wasn't particularly sensitive to change and all that.
44:48
Now I don't know the real reasons for it all, but it was a bit of a sad way to leave, I thought.
44:54
I didn't get to leave like Craig Lowndes winning Bathurst, which would have been nice.
44:58
Can you remember where you were when you finally decided, I'm going to stop?
45:04
What was the moment?
45:06
There'd been a...
45:08
a professional motor racer for 30 years and involved in the game longer.
45:13
But what was the point and how difficult was it to come to that decision?
45:17
Well, it was not difficult to make the decision, but it was then difficult to carry it out.
45:22
And as the year went on, I got more and more depressed.
45:27
I genuinely got clinically depressed.
45:30
So I was in a very bad state, mental state.
45:33
Anybody that suffered from depression knows what it's like.
45:36
This is while the racing season is still going.
45:38
Yeah, while the racing season was on.
45:40
And I couldn't go.
45:41
I didn't think I could take antidepressant medication to treat me.
45:48
I'd been to doctors and things, been to psychiatrists.
45:52
because I thought it would affect the way I drove.
45:55
Now, it doesn't.
45:56
I've since been on antidepressant medication for like 10 years, so it doesn't affect the way you drive.
46:03
But I thought it would, so I didn't.
46:06
So I had a shocking year because I was, you know, hauled around signing things and
46:13
you know, waving to people and kissing babies and all that, and trying to be outwardly, which people do if they are depressed, they try and be happy-go-lucky, but I wasn't.
46:25
I was in a very dark place, so I'm very lucky I survived it, to be honest.
46:30
You know, at the end of the year, I was in a really... My last race was Phillip Island.
46:35
How's this for a funny story, eh?
46:39
Phillip Island was nice.
46:40
Like, I was in tears on the grid.
46:43
They had a big banner thing, and it was really nice, you know.
46:46
I mean, it meant you were appreciated a bit, which is nice.
46:50
The Monday we had a ride day for the sponsors of PCR, and on that Monday this woman from Ford Motor Company, she rang me up and she said, you have one of our cars, it's a Ford Territory, which I did have, I'd had a Ford car since 1992.
47:08
Not the same car, but you know, they had part of the Ford world, you know, and I did quite a lot of stuff in the Ford world.
47:15
in many ways in turn, including, you know, development stuff.
47:22
She said, we'd like you to bring her back.
47:24
The day after?
47:24
The day after.
47:25
By the end of the week, I go, are you serious?
47:28
She said, yes.
47:30
And I was so shattered.
47:31
I mean, you're in a fragile state if you're depressed, you know, and it was just, wow, you know, like this is like kicking you while you're down, it felt like.
47:40
So a guy who still works at Ford, Stephen Crook, he organised for me to buy a little Mondeo in very short time, you know, at a favourable price, so I took it back.
47:51
But it was just a bit...
47:54
Yeah, a bit shocking.
47:55
Staggering, but I mean, as you say, in that world, that's often how they play the game.
48:00
Yeah, it is.
48:02
But to be credited, mate, because you start a conversation about a topic that is, I think, vitally, vitally important, and you've been a real...
48:13
sort of ambassador for it.
48:14
There'll be plenty of people that are listening to this that perhaps may have been affected.
48:19
Your tonic, your tonic is driving, isn't it?
48:23
It is, yeah.
48:23
Well, I do, as I said, I do take antidepressant medication and I talk to quite a lot of people about it because people come and ask me because I've never been secret about it.
48:35
You've got to go and seek some help.
48:36
You can't beat it on your own.
48:38
You've got to seek some help.
48:39
So part of that help sometimes is antidepressants, and they are like oil.
48:45
Some oil suits your car.
48:47
Some oil doesn't suit your car.
48:49
So if you try one and it doesn't work, you go back to the doctor.
48:53
You say, I'd like to change something else because it's not working.
48:56
They can do much more tests now too to see what suits you, what all your receptors are.
49:02
But yeah, motor racing is my happy place.
49:06
I love it.
49:07
I love the people in it.
49:10
even when they wrong you sometimes, I still love them.
49:13
And, you know, that allows me to, you know, live the rest of my life as a normal character, you know.
49:19
And I guess, of course, the medication helps too.
49:21
I wouldn't be game not to take it in case it comes back because it's terrible.
49:27
It's horrible.
49:28
It's really horrible.
49:28
Yeah, terrible.
49:29
I've seen many, many people suffer from it, and it's bloody awful.
49:33
But, you know, there are lots of good organisations around that do things for it.
49:37
There's always people can help you.
49:39
And you need to reach out to them.
49:41
Reach out to me if you want, you know.
49:44
That's, you know, we won't go too full on with this topic, but I think it's important to address.
49:49
The thing that really opened my eyes to you, mate, is that...
49:55
It's probably hard enough for a lot of people just to look after themselves if they are suffering from that.
49:59
But I've seen you reach out, and we won't name names here, but I've seen you reach out to other people in our game that perhaps either are potentially affected or are affected, and you haven't just looked after your own backyard.
50:11
Well, no, because I think, you know, if you're a decent person, you have empathy for these people because I've been through it.
50:20
I understand what it's like.
50:22
And, you know, I mean, if I can help, I help.
50:24
But all I can help with is advice.
50:27
But, you know, sometimes they need someone to help them.
50:30
It's very hard for families that live with it to be able to affect it because they don't, a lot of the time they don't get it.
50:37
Whereas I get it.
50:39
I lived it, you know.
50:41
And when I think about it, I reckon I was susceptible to it.
50:46
Most of my life.
50:47
Really?
50:47
Yeah, I reckon, yeah.
50:49
Yeah, I reckon so.
50:50
So now, really, to be honest, I'm in a much better place.
50:54
And my saviours at the time, the end of 2007, so going into 2008, there's a couple of people.
51:03
First of all, Tony Hunter, who runs the Touring Co Masters, called me and asked me if I'd drive his Camaro at Adelaide.
51:12
And I said yes.
51:14
not knowing anything about it at all, nothing.
51:18
Because I wanted to drive.
51:22
And then John McMillan, who was the CEO of Wilson Security, hence the Wilson Group, who resigned late last year, him and I were friendly.
51:34
He was a friend.
51:35
I was a friend of him and his family.
51:37
He said that he would – I asked him about it, and he said, well, I'll support you in a way, a sponsorship way.
51:43
It wasn't mega money because it's not mega money.
51:46
And Jim Walker, who was the CEO of West Track, he did the same.
51:50
So from being with nothing to do, with no picture of where my life was going after 30-something years of motorsport, these two guys, I'll be forever grateful, they helped me.
52:04
They helped me keep.
52:05
So I did the Adelaide race and then with their sponsorship I did the rest of the season.
52:10
And it was amazing.
52:11
you know and i love the category i love the cars i love the people so it was like you know that 2008 year was a big turnaround for me yeah so i look back now it's 10 years ago i think wow where'd that 10 years go i need the likes of a richard krail or my colleague aaron noonan to run the numbers by me but i mean in that 10 years mate most successful person ever in the in the category the numbers are huge and
52:36
For those that don't know the class, there are some cool cars in this, from Camaros to Mustangs like you ran with Mustang Sally early on.
52:45
You now compete in a Tirana.
52:47
There are days where that does my head in thinking of you in a Holden.
52:50
It does a lot of people's head in.
52:52
I went down to...
52:54
The old Ford day the other day down at Geelong, and I reckon half the people that I spoke to, and that was in the hundreds, all said, oh, you shouldn't be in the Toronto.
53:01
But I mean, it's just circumstantial, you know, and to me, it doesn't really matter.
53:07
It's not like I'm now associated with Ford.
53:09
I'm not really.
53:10
I mean, I'd love to be.
53:11
I've got a Ford heart.
53:13
It's just that I'm racing a Toronto.
53:15
Now, if I had the money, I would build another TCM car out of an XC Cobra Coupe.
53:20
So someone that's listening to your podcast, if they're pretty flash with money, come and see me.
53:28
You can own it.
53:28
I don't own it.
53:29
I just want to drive it.
53:31
I reckon an XC Cobra, you know, the last of those things with the big bonnet cowl and the, you know, I reckon they're making an awesome TCM car.
53:38
Tell me about and give people listening a bit more background on the current Tirana in terms of its horsepower.
53:47
You've gone back to a scenario where it's a small, really tight-knit team that run this thing.
53:52
I can sense in you just how much fun it is when you go to a race meeting like this.
53:58
Yeah, it is fun.
53:59
You've got to temper your expectation to some degree because in a supercar team, you're surrounded by people that do stuff, you know.
54:08
Like, there's probably 20 guys go to the track, or girls and guys.
54:13
Well, with this, there's only two or three of them.
54:16
And, you know, you've got to sometimes... Like, the session a minute ago we were going to do, they'd forgotten to fuel the car up.
54:24
So, you know, I go...
54:27
So I've got to temper my expectations because I did spend a lot of time in a pro outfit, but they do a very good job.
54:34
They built the car.
54:37
I was in the background just with a bit of advice, and then I drove it and it was good.
54:46
You've got to understand Touring Car Masters is a balance of performance category, so it's a parody category, which always the word parody to me is...
54:56
fraught with danger and this is too but I still do it because I love it.
55:03
A five litre car like the Tirana is has to weigh 1420 kilos with the driver.
55:11
and it's got about 580 horsepower.
55:14
A six-litre car can weigh 1530, some of them weigh 1500.
55:21
It's sort of, it's all a bit, it's a bit like the Formula One money sharing world, you know, no one quite knows who gets what and, you know.
55:30
So, but the bottom line is the cars are powerful, way more powerful than they ever were back in the day.
55:38
They've got eight-inch wide wheels, which is only little,
55:41
8 inch by 15 so the contact patch is small.
55:44
They have no wings, no splitters, no undercar aero, none of that stuff.
55:50
So they are challenging, different challenging.
55:54
Like an aero car, you've got to maximise the aero.
55:58
These don't have any aero.
55:59
But you can follow other cars really closely, you don't get any upset airflow or anything.
56:04
I mean it's a great category to be honest and
56:08
The people of Australia, the races we go to, they embrace it because, you know, there's not many people that didn't want an A9X or a Mustang or a Falcon Coupe or a Camaro or something.
56:20
You know, even nowadays, guys have got them as hobby cars and weekend cars and stuff like that.
56:25
So you've got all those cars out there and they all sound different.
56:28
They all perform a little differently.
56:30
You know, the Tarana is great.
56:32
Very good under brakes and it's good in the first part of the corner.
56:36
That's its strength.
56:38
The second part of the corner, something with a six-litre engine just drives away from it.
56:42
So you have a bit of this...
56:45
to and fro go on, you know, which you don't seem to get in supercars anymore because they're all so even, aren't they?
56:50
Even the ones at the back are even.
56:53
So, yeah, it suits me.
56:54
I mean, obviously, you know, it's not to the level of supercar racing, but it's pretty good.
56:59
And your old friends, the Johnsons, are building, I mean, Stephen competes in the class, obviously, and has had success in the class, and now they're building a Falcon.
57:06
Well, I got him into the class.
57:08
It was a bad day's work, wasn't it?
57:09
Yeah.
57:11
I let him drive my car and then I had an opportunity to sell it, which I owned it, and I sold it to a guide, Tony Warn.
57:19
Have you met Warnie?
57:20
Oh, no.
57:20
Great, great bloke.
57:22
Him and his wife, Barb.
57:23
They bought it as a collectible car because it's won a lot of races, you know.
57:28
And then Dick rang him and said, can we have a lend of it?
57:31
And Warnie being a good bloke.
57:34
I said, yeah, yeah, of course you can.
57:35
So now, you know, I mean, he won the sad championship the last two years in a row.
57:41
So anyway, I don't really care.
57:44
But I think it's quite a funny story.
57:46
Absolutely.
57:47
Does it still give you the same buzz clearly when you line up on the grid?
57:54
You know, it's not V8 supercar, it's not battling for that national, elite national title, but it's a massive classmate and very well regarded in our sport.
58:04
And the fact that you're there doing it, I think, is tremendous.
58:07
Well, I love it.
58:08
I don't get as nervous anymore because it essentially doesn't matter.
58:12
You know, like when you're a supercar driver, I reckon all of them would tell you this, your whole feeling of well-being...
58:21
hinges on how you go on your next race, you know.
58:23
And if your last race of the day and you go crappy, between then and the next race, you're sort of flat, you know, whereas this doesn't really matter to me.
58:34
I consider it very important that I can still do it at a level enough to be competitive.
58:40
And, yeah, so, you know, it's, like I said, it's my happy place, whether that's be good or bad, I don't know.
58:45
I think it's a great thing.
58:46
Did you get...
58:47
And maybe that's only been resolved in recent years.
58:49
Nervous before the start of a race for all those.
58:52
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
58:53
In what way?
58:54
Oh, just butterflies, you know.
58:55
I mean, I remember my first race I did at Baskerville Raceway in Tasmania when I was 15.
59:01
I was nearly 16.
59:04
And I remember driving into the circuit with my dad in the morning with a ute and the little Formula V. And I felt, see, I thought I was going to throw up.
59:11
I was just driving into the tracks, not getting in the car or anything.
59:14
And then, you know, I think it's part of your performance to be a bit nervous, you know.
59:20
I quite often say to people, I've done 1,000, no, 1,100, 1,130 races.
59:26
So how many butterflies do you reckon that is?
59:28
Lots.
59:28
A lot.
59:29
Lots.
59:29
But not so much now.
59:31
You know where I get them, though?
59:33
Bathurst.
59:34
I still get them at Bathurst, yeah.
59:35
Yeah, even driving this car, which I've driven a lot and I'm comfortable with it, you know.
59:40
I still get the build-up to go to Bathurst to race is still special because of the place, yeah, because of the track.
59:49
And I'm going to do the Bathurst six-hour race this year with a couple of guys I know in Sydney who've got a Holden Supercharged Walkinsaw Holden.
59:56
So I'm really looking forward to it because it's a bit old...
59:59
fashioned, you know, it's got everything in it from a Toyota Yaris to a BMW M4 and everything in between.
1:00:06
So it's kind of fun.
1:00:08
So I've done it a couple of times with Dave Wall.
1:00:10
So this year I'm going to do it in a big car.
1:00:13
That's cool.
1:00:14
And I hear that there are loose plans for Johnson and Bauer to potentially be together again.
1:00:22
And I say that with Stephen, who's
1:00:25
partnering with you potentially for the 12-hour 2020.
1:00:29
Is that true?
1:00:31
And how far down the track are you on that idea?
1:00:33
Well, this year I decided that I wouldn't do the 12-hour, first of all because I had quite a lot of stuff to put together for my touring car masters.
1:00:46
So I didn't have time to train much.
1:00:49
And then I drove up there to be there.
1:00:52
and as an ambassador for Liquid Molly who sponsored the race.
1:00:56
And I got there and I go, gee, I wish I was driving.
1:00:59
And then halfway through the race when I saw all those young, fit athletes collapsing in the pit lane, I thought, geez, I'm glad I'm not doing this.
1:01:07
But I did speak to one, it's one of Stevie J's supporters, about it, and I said, you know, this guy supports Tony Dalberto as well, and he's a good bloke, I know him quite well.
1:01:20
The Falcon that Dick and I took to Alice Springs to do 300 kilometres an hour in, which we did 297, he bought that car.
1:01:27
So it's part of his little Falcon collection.
1:01:30
So it may well happen.
1:01:32
I said I'd like someone like Steve in it who's got a lot of ability and Tony D is a very good little driver.
1:01:38
So I can just do the easy stuff in the middle of the day when no one looks too much, you know, and they can do the hard work.
1:01:44
But it might happen.
1:01:45
I mean, if it's going to happen, it needs to happen by November so I can make myself ready for it and we can do some mileage.
1:01:51
Those cars are quite, because they've got such high level of grip, they're quite taxing.
1:01:56
So you need to be ready for it.
1:01:58
You guys, I mean, you talked about him trying to take as much information from you when he was a kid growing up, but, I mean, the potential for you guys to pair up and do that is something he's hugely excited about.
1:02:10
Oh, I hope so.
1:02:11
I mean, he didn't even know much about it, I don't think, Stevie.
1:02:13
It was more Tony, Delberto and I because Stevie wasn't there.
1:02:16
Yeah, I'd like to do it as a swan song, you know, but, I mean, being a...
1:02:27
fun event.
1:02:28
You know, like, since it became a pro-pro event, and they have factory teams, you know, they may not be called Porsche racing, but they are.
1:02:36
They're factory teams.
1:02:37
It's changed to a very cutthroat sort of thing.
1:02:41
So I'd like to do it with those guys just for fun.
1:02:43
I did it last year with Dave Wall, who's a friend and a great bloke.
1:02:48
But we had trouble with the car and all that.
1:02:50
And we came second in that class.
1:02:52
But I remember I stood on the podium and I thought that was the most...
1:02:56
non-enjoyable motor race I've ever done, I think, at Bathurst, because the car was not something, there was some stuff wrong with it, and you're watching all the time for these kamikaze Germans, or whoever, or wherever they come from.
1:03:09
So whether it happens or not, I don't know, but it'd be good fun, wouldn't it?
1:03:13
Sure would.
1:03:14
You talked about wanting the car a certain way with Worley there a minute ago and things like that.
1:03:18
You have regularly, over time, linked your expertise, your experience, whether it be days with journalists or to motor vehicle companies, tyre companies, etc., to...
1:03:31
Finesse, haven't you?
1:03:32
And you enjoy that testing and development side.
1:03:35
Yeah, I do.
1:03:36
And I think, you know, part of my brain is okay at it.
1:03:40
I mean, nobody is a guru, nobody, but I've got a pretty clear picture of what things should be in most cases.
1:03:46
Like I did a lot of...
1:03:48
work with when it was Techford Vehicles and then a lot of work with FPV which is road stuff.
1:03:53
Do you come back to some key fundamentals in your mind that you want it to do?
1:03:57
I go on feel and what I think it should be.
1:03:59
So if it's a road car, you know, it needs to be...
1:04:03
what I want a road coater be, you know, and I don't want a road coater jar your teeth out or shake your eyeballs loose or any of that stuff, but I want it to react and be sharp and, you know, have nice throttle modulation and all that stuff.
1:04:17
A lot of that stuff is gone with modern day cars because they're all fly by wire.
1:04:21
drive by wire and they don't spend enough time on making a throttle map that works for a driver might work for a traction control system or a stability control system or something but it loses its feel you know it's wooden so you don't enjoy it as much part of driving is this interaction between your backside and your feet and your hands and all that it's all part of the part of the craft i reckon
1:04:44
But I was talking to Bev Brock the other day and I said my role with FPV was sort of like Peter had at HDT, except I was in the background where he was the front of house.
1:04:57
I didn't ever...
1:04:59
spruik about it because you work with all these other guys you know and it's not fair that someone takes credit for it so and i i did some things the other day with prem car who who are what they used to be fpv and pro drive engineering and they've just done this modified falcon which is an awesome car so it was really good to be back with them again same guys you know just the same blake so it's good to be back in the real world i cannot
1:05:24
begin to imagine the tally of cars you've driven over time is there one race car for you that you have a special affinity with and even now people trust you with some unbelievable machines i mean you talked about joe collegia before i mean he's got a great little march that you've you've driven i mean there's some awesome things that you've had a steer of yeah i have i've always threatened to write down all the cars i've driven on or owned on the road which is just
1:05:51
hundreds and all the race cars I've driven.
1:05:54
But I've never done it.
1:05:55
I must still be sure before I go senile and I can't remember.
1:06:00
It's funny.
1:06:01
You would have probably heard this because it's actually a joke, but it's a real joke.
1:06:05
Race cars are like old race cars.
1:06:08
like say the Sierra which you have a fondness for because she had some good results a bit like old girlfriends I reckon so you you meet them again 30 years later and you go what happened to you?
1:06:21
so you you don't notice your own deterioration because you see yourself every day so that was when I drove the Sierras at Lakeside about three years ago with Dick it was that sort of moment I thought wow what happened to these things you know I said well these like that and he goes yeah it's you know
1:06:38
as it finished at Pukakawi in 1992.
1:06:41
But as I said, since I've driven Terry Lawless' car with the lighter stuff, it's much better.
1:06:47
But yeah, I had a fondness for the Sierra and a fondness for the Volvo and a fondness for the Viscanda.
1:06:52
I wouldn't say any of them are, you know, I'm fond of them.
1:06:56
Racing cars to me are not, I love road cars, you know, I love them.
1:07:02
But a race car, I look at it a slightly detached way.
1:07:06
You know, I don't look at it as a,
1:07:09
As a love.
1:07:09
Yeah, as a love, even though I probably do, but I don't look at it like, you know, pat it and kisses.
1:07:16
Because if you feel like that about it, you're not going to ever stick it down the inside of somebody if there's a chance of them coming down on you.
1:07:24
So you're just not going to.
1:07:25
So I've never been like that.
1:07:27
The road car list, I'd love you to write that one day, but, I mean, there's been Jags, I think something like 20 Porsches.
1:07:33
There's been a heap of different cars, hasn't there?
1:07:35
I've owned 37 Porsches.
1:07:39
Have you really?
1:07:40
37 Porsches, yeah.
1:07:41
Some of them for a short time, some of them for not so short a time.
1:07:45
This is another funny story.
1:07:47
I love funny stories.
1:07:49
About six years ago, I bought from the Lexus deal around the corner a Porsche 964 Turbo.
1:07:56
So 1991.
1:08:00
Not all that common a car, quite rare.
1:08:02
It was a 3.3.
1:08:03
The 3.6 is real rare, but 3.3 is quite rare.
1:08:07
So I bought it, had it for six months.
1:08:12
It had a stainless exhaust, custom exhaust, and it used to backfire and carry on and gave me the horrors.
1:08:18
So I sold it to a guy in Wangaratta, so that's seven years ago, for 90 grand.
1:08:24
Right?
1:08:25
So this last year in Tassie when supercars were down there, I was down there because we did a TCM race, I saw the bloke in the hotel, same bloke.
1:08:34
He goes, you remember me?
1:08:35
I'm from Wangaratta.
1:08:36
I bought you a black Porsche.
1:08:38
And I go, yeah, yeah.
1:08:39
How are you going?
1:08:39
Is this, you still got it?
1:08:40
He goes, no, I just sold it.
1:08:42
Gee, I'm glad I bought that off, yeah?
1:08:43
I go, what was that?
1:08:45
He goes, I just sold it for 300 grand.
1:08:47
Oh, ho, ho, ho.
1:08:49
They had to get the smell and so it's had to revive me.
1:08:52
Unbelievable.
1:08:53
Yeah, so there's been a few tales like that.
1:08:56
But, you know, I love Porsches.
1:08:59
I think they're very usable, friendly, nice, characterful cars.
1:09:04
What is the John Bauer current daily drive?
1:09:07
Well, it's sitting out there.
1:09:09
I've become everything that I used to criticise people.
1:09:12
I used to say, look at those people driving SUVs, four-wheel drives.
1:09:16
They never go off the road.
1:09:17
They only take their kids to school.
1:09:20
I'm driving a BMW X3 three-litre diesel M Sport, and it's fantastic.
1:09:27
So I think I'm matured.
1:09:29
Is there one rival for you in your entire career?
1:09:32
One person that you were like, you know, got to beat that person?
1:09:36
Well, you try and beat everybody, but the one I think, honestly, I mean, I have great admiration for Dick, and I still do, but the guy that I always felt I'd achieved something if I defeated him and loved racing against him was Jimmy Richards.
1:09:52
And I still have a huge respect for him as a bloke and as a driver.
1:09:57
And I know he's tapered back now and he's driving.
1:09:59
He doesn't do as much of it.
1:10:01
But, you know, man, he was on it.
1:10:05
He was really on it.
1:10:05
And the later generation, you know, like Lowndes, he's a fantastic driver, obviously, had some good times with Scaife, although by the time I sort of came along, Scaife was probably...
1:10:17
It'd risen above my level when he was at HRT.
1:10:19
They had a pretty good set-up.
1:10:24
Mark Winterbottom.
1:10:25
I've always had a lot of time for Jamie Wincup.
1:10:27
In fact, the current guys are all good at it, to be honest.
1:10:31
It's a different world now.
1:10:33
Yeah.
1:10:33
Isn't it?
1:10:34
One track.
1:10:34
One track that is the John Bauer favourite.
1:10:37
I mean, he talked about the nerves at Bathurst.
1:10:38
Is it Bathurst?
1:10:39
Yeah, of course.
1:10:40
There would not be one racing driver in Australia from grassroots to pros that wouldn't say Bathurst.
1:10:48
Not one.
1:10:49
It's just we are so lucky as a country to have that track here, I reckon.
1:10:54
It's just fantastic.
1:10:55
And the fact that, you know, later in the year they get to, there's a thing called Challenge Bathurst.
1:10:59
You can take your road car up there and drive around there.
1:11:02
How good is that?
1:11:03
Fantastic.
1:11:04
Yeah, it's just awesome.
1:11:05
I love it.
1:11:05
I took the little catering up last time and Jesse did it.
1:11:09
Well that was my final kind of couple of questions.
1:11:12
What resto projects are in the garage?
1:11:15
What things have you got?
1:11:16
And is there one that you perhaps would like to do that you haven't acquired yet?
1:11:25
It's a 1962 Jaguar E-Type 3.8 Roadster, or they called them OTS, Open Top Sports.
1:11:33
And I've had it for about 10 years.
1:11:35
I never keep cars very long, but I've had this one for 10 years.
1:11:37
I bought it from Alf Barbagello in Perth.
1:11:42
And I love it.
1:11:43
I love it.
1:11:43
I don't drive it much, but I love it.
1:11:45
I'm going to take it down to the Phillip Island Historics.
1:11:49
It's like all those old cars.
1:11:50
It's...
1:11:51
You know, if it rains, you get wet, even if you've got the hood up.
1:11:55
But it's a beautiful old car and it's in really good condition.
1:11:58
So that's all.
1:11:59
That's all a wheelie.
1:12:00
I'd love an earlier Porsche, but they've gone crazy price-wise.
1:12:05
Yeah, yeah.
1:12:05
So, and I did have some, you know, back in...
1:12:09
The past, but, I mean, they've gone mad.
1:12:11
Which particular model?
1:12:13
Well, I've had everything from a...
1:12:16
I had a 73 911E once.
1:12:18
This is a long time ago, in the 80s, late 80s.
1:12:21
I've had 911 SCs, 911 Carreras, 911 turbos, 928s, 924s, 944s, 944 turbos.
1:12:30
I've had a lot.
1:12:32
I'm a Porsche-phile, but I don't advertise it.
1:12:35
You've done some remarkable things in your career, mate.
1:12:38
You'd be congratulated for what you do on track and off JB.
1:12:42
And I don't sense that you want to stop any time soon.
1:12:46
No, I'm not over it yet.
1:12:47
So to race in TCM...
1:12:50
You have to fund it.
1:12:51
It's not a cheap category.
1:12:53
It's not stupidly expensive either, but it's not cheap.
1:12:56
I certainly couldn't fund it on my own.
1:12:58
So I have, you know, as long as I can have people partner with me.
1:13:04
I've got Brian Boyd from Pace and Painted Dixon.
1:13:08
He's helped me out this year.
1:13:11
As long as I can do that, I'll do it for a few more years yet.
1:13:14
And then I'll still do it.
1:13:17
So I'll get an old race car of some sort, something that's not too blindingly fast, and I'll be down there with the sandwiches and the thermos, Phil of Ireland Classic, and I'll be remembering how fast I used to be.
1:13:29
And I will look forward to catching up with you there, mate.
1:13:31
You've been great to chat to us between some practice runs before the season starts.
1:13:36
Get out there, give it a bootful, and have a great year.
1:13:38
Always a pleasure, Rusty, always.
1:13:45
If any of the issues raised in this episode have affected you, please contact Lifeline on 13 11 14.
1:13:53
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1:13:56
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1:14:08
Rusty's Garage is written and presented by me, Greg Rust.
1:14:13
Series producer and editor is Alex Mitchell.
1:14:16
Audio production by Darcy Thompson.
1:14:24
Listener.