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Trick or Treat: Alice, Sweet Alice (1976) · Fumbling Through Film

• 0:00
  Gather together from the cosmic reaches of the universe. Here in this great screening room with comfortable recliners are the most powerful forces of good ever assembled.
• 0:10
  Jar number 4, uh, we see here you did a podcast where you said you would let this slide.
• 0:15
  Terry,
• 0:16
  I wouldn't even play the board game Battleship with a baby.
• 0:18
  Derek,
• 0:18
  well, I mean, they're the victims of torture and murder for public spectacle, and they escape and they get revenge, and they're the freaks?
• 0:26
  And the Power Twins, Zap and Jordan, with their magical lemur snort dedicated to Welcome back to Fumbling Their Way Through Movies, one forgotten gem at a time.
• 0:34
  This week we watch the 1976 proto-slasher Alice, Sweet Alice.
• 0:39
  This is Fumbling Through Film.
• 0:42
  Do you know for sure who stabbed your aunt?
• 0:44
  No.
• 0:45
  Did you stab your aunt?
• 0:48
  No.
• 0:48
  During your entire life, did you deliberately hurt someone who trusted you? During your entire life, did you deliberately hurt someone who trusted you?
• 1:03
  Debbie's coat in the toilet, if that's what you mean. But I didn't lie. I told the sister I did it.
• 1:09
  Please, Alice, answer yes or no.
• 1:13
  Yes.
• 1:16
  In the suitcase found in the basement were a white dress and a mask. Are they yours?
• 1:21
  Yes.
• 1:22
  Are you deliberately withholding any information regarding the attack on your aunt?
• 1:27
  No.
• 1:30
  Do you know who stabbed your aunt?
• 1:32
  No.
• 1:34
  Do you know who stabbed
• 1:38
  Yes, it was Karen. I told him it was Karen, but no one believed me. It was Karen.
• 1:43
  Hello and welcome to another one of our current shows, a new episode of Bumbling Through Film. Hopefully that didn't scare anybody off with that. We are guaranteed the only show that dares to bring together 3 dudes to talk about movies. These aren't just any movies, though. They are. They're the ones we either missed, overlooked, or feel are simply worth revisiting. Like I said, they're any movie. My name is Derek and I'm a fumbler. Joining me here in the Fumbledome, the— I almost said aquarium, but that is not correct. Well, I mean, we have fish, just to be sure. Classified as an aquarium.
• 2:30
  We just—
• 2:31
  P-P-H-I-S-H.
• 2:32
  Yeah, we have him. Yeah.
• 2:35
  Yeah. In the basement tied up. Uh, it's a planetarium formally that we've converted into a screening room. And this is where we watch all of our movies. And joining me here as he does every week is the Prime Minister of Fumbling and Film, Keith.
• 2:51
  Hey, hey, what's up, KG? Fumbler extraordinaire. Uh, damn glad to be here.
• 2:57
  Damn glad to be here. And the other— he just finished feeding the fish, coming back up the stairs— is the Dr. Dre of Kansas, Terry.
• 3:11
  Hey everybody, it's Terry, Sweet Terry. Um, really nice guy, feeding the fish downstairs in the basement. You know, they, they like fish food, so that's nice.
• 3:21
  Ben& Jerry's is great. They love ice cream. I love ice cream.
• 3:25
  Yeah,
• 3:25
  that's why we got them.
• 3:27
  They, you know, they down it quick. Every time I bring it, they're all excited, they're happy, you know. I try not to bang on the glass too much. I know that scares them, but it's just kind of fun to watch them, you know, go, boo.
• 3:38
  So they really like you because you're the nicest of the 3 of us.
• 3:41
  Yeah, I'm the sweetest, you might say.
• 3:44
  Terry Sweet Terry.
• 3:46
  Yeah, you know, that's what they call me most of the time. I make them, I make them call me that.
• 3:50
  You know, most of the studies done on this, uh, when people are or ask questions about our show, you are always picked as the sweetest.
• 3:57
  Yeah, we always ask, who's the sweetest of the 3?
• 4:01
  Yeah, on exit interviews and surveys. Yeah, every time somebody finishes listening to the episode.
• 4:07
  Oh yeah, they get a phone call mysteriously on their phone and they have to answer like 10 questions.
• 4:11
  There's 3 calls. They first get one where it's like— and then they hang up, and then there's that one. And they hang up and then there's no one with a weird voice where it's like, this is Angela. I have a survey for you. I'm like, oh, my niece Angela, the 12-year-old? Yes, that's me.
• 4:33
  I sound just like her. Come to me to a secluded location to answer 10 questions about the Fumbling Through Film.
• 4:41
  You may find it weird when you get here, but I'm on the 4th floor of an abandoned warehouse.
• 4:48
  You might question why a 12-year-old would be up here, but don't worry about it.
• 4:52
  It's me. All right. You know what else it is? It's our show. And we should tell people what it is we do here, because I kind of did it already. But let's, let's really hone in on what we do. Every month we watch movies, but not just any movies. One of us chooses a theme, a genre, A guiding light, a North Star, the light on at the porch to let you know there's candy. Oh yeah,
• 5:23
  the Motel 6.
• 5:24
  The Motel 6. That's what we pick. And we choose— they pick a theme and then we all choose a movie adhering to that theme. And then the 4th week we watch a crazy flippin' movie from some wheel of death. But before we do that, we got a new month. This is a new month. This is a Terry month.
• 5:44
  That's true.
• 5:45
  Terry, Terry went off the rails with this one. He took a huge swing. He developed the PowerPoint, he had presentation. We had to go to like a hotel where he rented out a ballroom, and, uh, we went through all this stuff.
• 5:59
  There's all these dancers around, they all have a, a sticky note on their chest claiming different things, and depending on who you dance with is what movie you get.
• 6:07
  Oh my gosh, does that happen anywhere in real life?
• 6:10
  I hope not. It probably does. It should.
• 6:13
  I'm still
• 6:14
  waiting for the door prize. I swear my raffle ticket number got called.
• 6:18
  Yeah, yeah, I had to buy a door prize ticket. Uh, Terry, please try to succinctly summarize— well, I don't know why it's to be succinct because I ramble and ramble as it is. Terry, please describe this month and then we'll have to later succinctly condense it down into a couple words that'll fit on Some art.
• 6:37
  Yes, yes. Uh, so this is kind of our— well, it's the month of October, so I thought we'd do something spooky, like Halloween special style.
• 6:46
  Like PowerPoints.
• 6:47
  I was in— yeah, PowerPoints are—
• 6:49
  PowerPoints are spooky.
• 6:50
  Anytime someone asks me to do one, I like— my heart just starts beating. Um, but basically I was inspired by the idea of trick-or-treating. You know, you pick your house you want to go to, you open it, but are you going to get a trick or a treat? You never know. So what I did was I have multiple horror genres that I've, um, coalesced myself. I've, you know, gathered all these genres. I coalesced all these genres together. Yes. And in each genre, there are 3 movies that I've also coalesced within.
• 7:22
  So basically, you, you curated a list of horror movies segmented by a ton of different genres or a ton of different subgenres.
• 7:34
  Yes. And so once someone picks one of the subgenres that I have chosen, they— the wheel of death comes into play where these 3 movies underneath this genre will randomly be chosen. So you don't know what— you can pick what you want as a genre, but you don't necessarily know what you're going to get as a movie.
• 7:53
  There's so many steps to this process. I love it.
• 7:56
  It's a little complicated.
• 7:57
  I really, I really enjoy how intricate and intense this process is. There's a lot of things happening.
• 8:04
  Yes, at the— maybe once we get to the end, I'll reveal the genres again. Or do you want me to do it now?
• 8:08
  No, no, no, there's so many of them. But tell them now, tell them the wrinkle to the genre that you chose.
• 8:16
  Okay, so I chose slasher films. That was the genre that I picked.
• 8:22
  Uh-huh.
• 8:22
  And we had 3 choices. We had Haunt from 2019, Alice, Sweet Alice, 1976, and Chopping Mall from 1986.
• 8:30
  But where did these choices come from?
• 8:32
  Oh, right. So I thought it was only fair since I picked every single movie for every category that for my genre that I would pick, I would have a friend pick them and fill in my PowerPoint for me so that I would not know what was on the list until we actually recorded the episode last week.
• 8:49
  And if you're a loyal listener, you know that this friend is also Terry's giallo guy.
• 8:54
  He is my giallo guy.
• 8:55
  Oh, I thought you were gonna say it was just the Wheel of Doom.
• 8:58
  No, my friend is the Wheel of Doom as well. Yes.
• 9:01
  Terry shared the PowerPoint and let somebody blindly— well, he didn't blindly do it, but blind to Terry— put in 3 movies into this.
• 9:09
  I, I just told him, pick 3 slasher movies, don't tell me what they are. I want to find out when I record the episode. I want it to be revealed to me.
• 9:18
  Does this person listen to this podcast?
• 9:23
  Uh, I don't know. He knows of it, I think, but I don't know
• 9:27
  because because putting chopping mall in there I found to be very interesting because that's one that came
• 9:32
  up in the past
• 9:34
  and was on the wheel at a previous time. Yeah, that's what I was about to say. It was on the wheel that that time. Uh, all tying back to what eating Raul?
• 9:41
  Yes, yes. Um, I don't know if he listens or not, but maybe maybe coincidence. He he seems like the type of guy to throw something like that on there. So I don't know. He was trying.
• 9:50
  He's trying to correct the fact that Lone Wolf McQuade got picked by the wheel that month. Yeah,
• 9:53
  that's probably why he stopped listening when he realized
• 9:55
  that.
• 9:56
  He's trying to right a wrong.
• 9:58
  Yes.
• 9:59
  So after all of this happened, all these intricate steps got us to this point. We spun the wheel and it gave us
• 10:07
  Alice Sweet Alice.
• 10:09
  Alice Sweet Alice. Now, before we do a deep dive into Alice Sweet Alice, before we talk about our viewing of Alice Sweet Alice, Did any of us have any knowledge or previous experience with Alice Sweet Alice?
• 10:24
  No, no, not at all.
• 10:27
  Me neither. Never heard of it. I wouldn't even recognize it. I couldn't pick it out of a lineup today. Even if you put up 3 movies in front of me with the titles, I would be like, I don't know which one it is.
• 10:36
  I, I have heard of this. Um, it's one of those like what they call like the proto slashers before they became like kind of the Halloween and beyond kind of thing. Um, so it's been on my radar for a while and it's like there's a company that I— the reason they distributed, you know, DVDs and Blu-rays and 4Ks that I like, Arrow, they released it. So it's always— I always see it when I like look at their sales and stuff. It's been something I've been eyeing for a while, so, you know, I was kind of happy that this one got picked.
• 11:03
  I think, Terry, it's time for you to take us closer than we could ever imagine to Alice, Sweet Alice. Sounds erotic, but it's not. I trust— I promise you it's not erotic.
• 11:14
  I swear it's not.
• 11:15
  With another patent pumpl— patent pumplar— patent pending pumplar steep dive.
• 11:24
  Now some of these, uh, facts may be a little more erotic than you'd expect.
• 11:28
  Whoa, I just perked up and I moved up in my chair.
• 11:33
  That's, that's just to get you all the listeners excited. Yeah, this, this review is, uh, MA for mature content. Um, Anyways, so this movie—
• 11:42
  so I can't listen to it later. All right.
• 11:45
  Yep, exactly. Sorry. Uh, this was directed by Alfred Sole. This guy has not directed a whole lot, actually. There's only 5 listed on IMDb.
• 11:54
  Oh,
• 11:55
  uh, he directed something called Tanya's Island. Okay, so this is a movie about a woman and her lover who— they go to an island, a remote tropical island, to be alone, but this island has a secret. There's a big gorilla that lives there.
• 12:10
  Is it named Tanya?
• 12:14
  No, Tanya is the woman who— with her lover. Yeah, the big gorilla, I don't remember his name. I don't remember.
• 12:20
  It'd be funny if the gorilla was also named Tanya.
• 12:22
  Yeah, what are the odds? That would be just like, wow, 2 Tanias. It really is Tanya's Island. But which Tanya's? Um, and then the boyfriend's actually named Tanya as well. That would be And they'd all— it is Tanya's. The only Tanya's allowed. So this big gorilla, um, it's like, I guess, stalking Tanya and also kind of has fallen in love with Tanya.
• 12:45
  The time will almost fail.
• 12:49
  Kind of King Kong style, I guess.
• 12:51
  Often, often do, right?
• 12:53
  Gorillas just— they have, they have big hearts and they, they fall easily for people, you know,
• 12:57
  especially Tanya's.
• 12:59
  And here's the tragedy is Tanya thinks they're just friends. You know, she— that's her perspective of the relationship. But the gorilla starts getting jealous of her boyfriend, and, uh, the boyfriend's also jealous of the gorilla. So there's something—
• 13:13
  gorilla like a King Kong gorilla or just like a normal gorilla?
• 13:16
  He's like slightly larger than man size.
• 13:18
  So normal gorilla then, like a silverback?
• 13:21
  Almost like a really big man in a gorilla costume.
• 13:24
  Oh, probably.
• 13:26
  Yeah, that's kind of what you're imagining. Yeah. Um, so from the trailer I'm watching, it seems that both the boyfriend and the gorilla kind of become villains in this like weird war over Tanya.
• 13:38
  I thought you said the best friends.
• 13:40
  No, no, they become buddies. No, they hate each other. And Tanya's like stuck in the middle of this battle. So here's where this movie has a very erotic undertone, maybe even an overtone to this. Um,
• 13:51
  is this what— is this Itanya? Is that what we're talking about
• 13:54
  here? Tanya's Island. Itanya might have gone there at some point.
• 13:57
  Okay. My bad.
• 13:58
  I only watched the trailer, but it made me feel a little weird, kind of icky. Like the way that, like the, the way the, um, the narrator over the trailer is talking. It's just a woman and she's got this very, it's like ASMR almost talking over the whole trailer. I was like, I don't know about that. And there's like the final like shot of the movie. Uh, it's like, it looks like the gorilla's, uh, having his way with Tanya. And I was like, no.
• 14:20
  What?
• 14:21
  Yeah. I was like, no, I don't think this is, I don't know what I'm watching. So yeah, anyways, oh, this director, uh, Alfred Sole, he's actually more known for being a production designer. He's got 42 credits of being a production designer. He was a production designer on the MacGyver series, the new one. Veronica Mars. Uh, he was that for, uh, S. Darko, the Donnie Darko sequel.
• 14:47
  Ooh,
• 14:48
  there was a Donnie Darko sequel?
• 14:49
  Yeah, by Sister, I think.
• 14:51
  Yeah, Little Sister, right? Yep, she's like traveling with her boyfriend and like weird time stuff happens or something. Something I was excited to see that he was production designer on was Wishmaster 2: Evil Never Dies.
• 15:03
  Wishmaster 2.
• 15:04
  Have you guys seen any Wishmaster movies?
• 15:06
  Hell no.
• 15:07
  Nope. Wow. Okay, well, you're missing out. You're really missing out because they're awesome. The first 2 are really good. They're hilarious, intentional or not. They're hilarious.
• 15:16
  Um, I think they are vibe to it.
• 15:18
  Yes, I was gonna say they have a very similar sense of humor to Leprechaun. I feel like it's on purpose. It's just so over the top and stupid. It's basically about an evil genie who corrupts people's wishes to kill them with them. So he's like, what do you wish? They say something and then he twists it to— Oh,
• 15:32
  it's like a monkey's paw situation.
• 15:34
  Yes, yes. And the guy who plays the genie in these first 2 movies is amazing. He does a great job. He does a great job.
• 15:41
  Is it Warwick Davis?
• 15:42
  I wish, I wish. But this guy does—
• 15:47
  Is it Shaquille O'Neal? Oh no, that's Kazam, actually.
• 15:50
  I think his name is like Andrew DeVoff. He's great. He's really great. So this movie was also written by Alfred Sole, but he had a writing partner, Rosemary Retvo. Retvo. I don't know how you say it, but she only has one writing credit on IMDb, and it was this.
• 16:10
  It's not even the—
• 16:13
  her and Alfred did get nominated for a Saturn Award for writing this movie. So that's okay. Cool. Um, I tried to do more digging, trying to find anything else about this person. Um, and it's possible that she also goes by Rosemary Puglia Retvo. Um, because Puglia is her maiden name, I believe.
• 16:30
  Okay.
• 16:31
  Um, I was able to find a newspaper article about this person getting married.
• 16:36
  Man, this is a deep dive and a half.
• 16:39
  I feel like we're getting— I feel like we're getting too close.
• 16:42
  Yeah, I felt a little creepy reading that.
• 16:45
  I felt this digging through her trash the other day. Uh, Yeah, there's this newspaper clipping.
• 16:51
  Yeah, just right outside of Rosemary's house. I was just like, oh, interesting.
• 16:55
  Yeah, I found some of her hair sent them in for a DNA sample. We have a full breakdown.
• 17:00
  Let's see where she actually comes from.
• 17:03
  Oh, you sent her to 23andMe?
• 17:06
  Yeah, yeah, we're gonna find out everything we can about her. But I found the newspaper article pretty cool, interesting. Uh, didn't really give me a lot of details. Um, And keep in mind, I don't know 100% sure if this is the exact same person or not. I do not know. But apparently she was a 9th grade teacher and a member of Alpha Psi Omega National Honorary Dramatic Society.
• 17:26
  Oh, okay.
• 17:27
  That's cool. And here's another, you know, what makes me think they might be the same person is that if you look up Rosemary Puglia Retvo on IMDb, she does have her own IMDb page as well.
• 17:38
  Okay.
• 17:40
  What are the odds that Rosemary Retvo and Rosemary Puglia Retvo have an IMDb page?
• 17:45
  Yeah, it sounds like— because IMDb is not like, uh, a company. I'm sure they're owned by somebody, but it's people putting things into the database. So—
• 17:55
  Yes, yes. And, you know, we've run into weird errors like this all the time, or, okay, this— these should be 2 different people, or this should be credited under a different person. So
• 18:03
  I
• 18:04
  need it.
• 18:05
  Did she— was she on the soundtrack for Triple X?
• 18:07
  Ah, stop, stop, don't do it.
• 18:10
  I think she was on the soundtrack for Triple X too.
• 18:12
  State of the Union.
• 18:14
  You motherfucker.
• 18:17
  She did have a credit. She did have one credit on it.
• 18:20
  I was gonna run with that joke and I said no because that opens it up for— Yeah, you don't need
• 18:25
  to worry about it.
• 18:27
  She has a writing credit, this Rosemary Pugley Retvo, on IMDb, um, for a TV movie called Traitor in My House from 1990. And it's just about a spy in the Civil War, Elizabeth Von Lew, also known as Crazy Bet. But it's told from the perspective of her niece.
• 18:42
  Crazy bet. Okay,
• 18:43
  crazy bet. I'm guessing, I'm guessing they're the same person. I have to guess.
• 18:46
  That's some deep diving right there, Terry.
• 18:48
  I really tried to find more info, and I guess I did. Maybe it's possible they're the same person off the— maybe they're still alive. I can ask. I don't know.
• 18:57
  Um, who are you gonna ask, the cosmos?
• 19:00
  Yeah, I'll just go look up in the sky, you know, pray for 20 days and hope for an answer. Uh, so—
• 19:08
  Wow, religious jokes, great.
• 19:10
  Uh, Paula E. Shepherd plays Alice Spags in this, uh, the titular Alice Sweet Alice. She only has 2 acting credits on IMDb. One is this movie, of course, and the other one is a movie called Liquid Sky. Uh, Liquid Sky is a very bizarre movie. It's about, um, I guess a heroin-addicted alien Yeah,
• 19:35
  I was gonna say, I'm on this right now.
• 19:38
  I guess the alien lands in Manhattan and starts sucking out endorphins from the brains of her lovers or the people she has sex with.
• 19:46
  I don't know, her specifically?
• 19:49
  The alien? Yeah,
• 19:52
  the alien is, is chasing Alice Sweet Alice's lovers?
• 19:56
  No, I don't— no, no, no, no. Okay. Alice Sweet Alice
• 20:01
  is, uh, is the alien like female? Like woman? Like human woman female?
• 20:07
  Yes. Yeah, she looks kind of human.
• 20:09
  So not like a gray or something like that?
• 20:11
  No, she's not like some tentacle monster or squid or—
• 20:15
  Damn it. See, that's my problem with aliens. We've gone over in the past.
• 20:18
  It's too humanoid. Yeah, we— I want something crazy like a gas— I want a crazy
• 20:22
  goddamn alien
• 20:24
  plant monster or something. Yeah. Yeah, uh, but no, it's more humanoid. She has like face paint on. I don't think the, the, uh, Paula E. Shepherd plays the alien. She plays an actress or dancer or something that the alien becomes friends with or is enthralled by or something like that. But you know, it's funny you're talking about soundtrack credits. Paula E. Shepherd, I think, had a soundtrack credit on Triple X One, but also on—
• 20:49
  Are you serious?
• 20:50
  No, just kidding.
• 20:51
  Oh, you son of a—
• 20:52
  I just wanted to bring that movie up too. I got really excited for a second. I wish. She has a sound credit on this Liquid Sky movie, so she must have sang the song or performed something.
• 21:04
  Or,
• 21:04
  um,
• 21:05
  voice was spoken over like before the song started.
• 21:08
  That could be too. Maybe it was sampled. Um,
• 21:11
  yes,
• 21:12
  a, uh, fun fact she did— so before I— yes, she did retire after Liquid Sky to do other things. But a fun fact according to IMDb is that her mom was an attorney and her father was a chemist.
• 21:24
  Wow, what a combo!
• 21:26
  Yeah, that's pretty cool. Um, I don't know why that's relevant to IMDb, but that's interesting.
• 21:34
  I don't know, that's a weird— that's a cool combo. Those are like 2 kind of high-profile sorts of jobs.
• 21:39
  Yeah, and it was a biochemist too, not just a normal chemist.
• 21:43
  Whoa, which one was the biochemist, the mom or the dad?
• 21:46
  The father.
• 21:46
  See, I just finished watching Creature Commandos, and this is like Nina's backstory. The fish girl.
• 21:53
  Oh, the fish. Yes, yes,
• 21:56
  it is. Yep.
• 21:57
  When an attorney and a biochemist get together, they create an actress. A fish girl actress. Yes, exactly. Uh, so Linda Miller, she plays Catherine Spags, the mother to Alice. Uh, she has 31 acting credits on IMDb. She was in an episode of Freddy's Nightmare, a couple episodes of Law and Order. couple episodes of Law and Order: Criminal Intent, all different characters for each episode. Of course. Yeah, why wouldn't she be the same character? Uh, more recently she was in something I recognized, Too Many Cooks. Have you guys seen this, the short film? Adult Swim?
• 22:32
  Oh, on Adult Swim? Yes.
• 22:34
  Yeah.
• 22:34
  I have not. No.
• 22:36
  You know that one, Keith?
• 22:37
  No, I do not. Or if I do, I just don't— I— if I do, I don't know it by name.
• 22:41
  It's really weird. It's like this— it's like basically just very weird extended sitcom opening theme song, but it goes through like Different.
• 22:50
  It's 11 minutes long.
• 22:51
  Yeah, yeah. And it just keeps going and it starts to devolve as it goes into this weirder and weirder stuff. Um, and it kind of like starts to spoof other different like types of, uh, TV show from back in the day.
• 23:03
  I remember when this came on, when it ran the first time, and like, what the hell's happening? Because I used to watch Adult Swim all the time.
• 23:10
  Yeah, yeah.
• 23:11
  Like, what is this?
• 23:12
  That's the accurate reaction to that. Yeah, it's pretty good. I watched it again and I was like, but I was like, wow, this is insane.
• 23:18
  Like, the thing is, it just— they just aired it. There wasn't like any sort of like, get ready for this, or nobody— like, nobody knew what was happening. They thought it was just another show. Yeah, because Adult Swim shows all sorts of weird shit. This is the time they were showing that, that— oh, what was that Angel show? Do you remember that one where it was like, looked like it was 3D done in like Blender with like the worst possible— and like the guy had a beak and a snake arm?
• 23:44
  Oh yes, what was that show called? It was very funny. About that show.
• 23:49
  I can't believe it. Then there was that like Saul in the Underworld or something like that. I can't remember what they were called. It's like so many weird shows, low-budget sorts of things, and this just happened. And then they aired it back to back to back to back like 50 times.
• 24:05
  Yes. Yeah, it was like a big thing when it came out. I remember that theme song is very catchy. But yeah, I would definitely recommend checking it out. It's pretty funny. I watched it. It is awesome. She plays like—
• 24:16
  I forgot that thing existed until you just mentioned it.
• 24:18
  Yeah, she, she was one of the first people introduced in that song. Really? She was like the grandmother, I guess, in the opening.
• 24:25
  That's awesome.
• 24:26
  She was in a movie called Night of the Juggler. Um, what? I think,
• 24:30
  I think it was The Juggler.
• 24:31
  Night of the Juggler.
• 24:32
  Night of the Juggler.
• 24:34
  Have we talked about this before?
• 24:35
  N-I-G-H-T or N-I-G-H-T?
• 24:38
  N-I-G-H-T, like the, the evening.
• 24:42
  I mean, yes.
• 24:44
  Did either version matter, Derek, if he asked you if you knew about it?
• 24:49
  No, but I wanted to make sure that I could picture it in my head. Now it's just the Evening of the Juggler. Before, it was a Night of the Juggler.
• 24:56
  Like a knight who follows a juggler?
• 24:59
  Knight who follows the commands of a juggler. Yeah,
• 25:02
  I would love that. That sounds—
• 25:03
  I would love that too. Totally different story.
• 25:06
  Both things you have in your head are not accurate to what this film is, I feel like.
• 25:10
  Oh no.
• 25:12
  So it's about—
• 25:13
  is there juggling at all? Like, there was no—
• 25:15
  that's the thing, no juggling in the trailer. Maybe there's more juggling than I think. Maybe they thought we better not show all the juggling.
• 25:22
  Don't give it all away in the trailer.
• 25:24
  But to me, if you call your movie Night of the Juggler, you really need to sell me on this.
• 25:28
  There better be some beanbags being tossed or some bowling pins or something.
• 25:31
  Bowling pins, knives.
• 25:33
  Yes, knives, sticks on fire, you know, torches.
• 25:37
  Yeah, yeah. Anything like he, he's challenging people to throw stuff at him while he's juggling.
• 25:42
  Yes.
• 25:43
  But no, it's about an ex-cop whose daughter gets kidnapped because the kidnapper mistakes his daughter for a wealthy man's daughter. So he was gonna like hold her for ransom, but then turns out he got the wrong daughter. Classic switch-up, uh, High and Low style. Yeah, there was no juggling at all in the trailer. It's very sad.
• 25:59
  Damn.
• 26:00
  I know, which makes me very skeptical, like Either they're like, what are they hiding? Is it something amazing?
• 26:06
  Or is it—
• 26:07
  or is it just like, you know, we don't got no juggling. There's nothing.
• 26:10
  What are you hiding, juggler?
• 26:12
  I ask that to every juggler I see. I think that's a fair question.
• 26:17
  Like, how many jugglers do you run into in the course of a regular day?
• 26:21
  Oh, just, you know, it's about an average amount, 2 or 3, probably.
• 26:25
  Probably. That sounds fair.
• 26:26
  The movie is now available for the first time in 40 years. So that's exciting. And it's on 4K.
• 26:33
  Available on what?
• 26:34
  Physical media.
• 26:35
  Oh my God. First time in 40 years.
• 26:38
  That's what the trailer I watched said. They were hyped. Wow. And it's in 4K, so you can get to see that thing in like high definition.
• 26:45
  The, the non-juggling.
• 26:47
  Yeah. You can see all that lack of juggling in 4K.
• 26:50
  It really stands out when it's
• 26:53
  4K.
• 26:54
  You can see the pores of the non-jugglers.
• 26:57
  Goddamn it. Our final person I will talk about is, uh, Niles McMaster. He plays Dominic Spades— Spags, which is Alice's father.
• 27:06
  What was his last name?
• 27:08
  Spags.
• 27:11
  Spags.
• 27:11
  I just said Mick Spags. Either way, I didn't know what their last names was.
• 27:15
  His real— his real last name, Niles McMaster.
• 27:18
  McMaster
• 27:19
  plays Dominic Spags.
• 27:20
  Dominic Spades. Gotcha.
• 27:22
  Um, he's only got 8 acting credits on IMDb. Um,
• 27:25
  yeah, not too many.
• 27:26
  No. Uh, the most interesting things that he's done were the movies that he did before this. The first one is called The Baby and the Battleship. Uh, somehow a sailor ends up with his fiancée's relative's baby. And is that
• 27:40
  somehow—
• 27:41
  yeah, I don't know how. The synopsis—
• 27:43
  Palpatine returned.
• 27:44
  That's basically what I got from the synopsis. I was like, okay, well, we better not cover this at all. And then, um, Instead, of course, returning it to safety, which, you know, was the reasonable thing. He smuggled it.
• 27:55
  As you do with most babies.
• 27:56
  Yeah, if it's not your baby, it's not even your fiancée's baby, but your fiancée's relative's baby, soon-to-be nephew or niece, maybe. I don't know, maybe just return it to the— to their parent. But
• 28:09
  yeah,
• 28:09
  instead he smuggles it on board and it becomes a comedy where a bunch of sailors are trying to take care of the ship and the baby at the same time.
• 28:17
  It's like Three Men and a Baby, but it's not. It's like 300 men on a battleship. 300 sailors. Yes, yes.
• 28:23
  And of course they're trying to hide the baby from the officers because they're not allowed to have babies.
• 28:28
  Well, there's strict naval rules about babies on battleships.
• 28:32
  That's true. Yeah, no babies allowed.
• 28:35
  When you take the oath to become a sailor, it's like you have to like confirm that you will not allow babies on a battleship.
• 28:42
  Yeah, that's like a big deal. And like, because, you know, these babies, they'll sneak onto like the cannons, climb in there. And then, like, you know, they like— if
• 28:50
  you pay attention, all of a sudden, bam, you shot one out the cannon.
• 28:54
  Yeah, exactly. They go flying.
• 28:55
  In fact, that happened too many times. That's why the rule is now in place.
• 28:59
  That is— yeah, exactly. Like most rules, like somebody was dumb enough to eat one of those, like, silicone preserved things they get in beef jerky that they had to put do not eat on it.
• 29:09
  Oh, the, like, desiccating.
• 29:11
  Someone ate one of those. But you know what the biggest danger to battleships are?
• 29:17
  What?
• 29:18
  Loose lips, they sink them.
• 29:19
  Bam!
• 29:20
  Oh man, babies are talkers. They will say whatever. They have no filter from the mouth of babes. Exactly.
• 29:30
  A babe will not lie.
• 29:32
  So a baby's gonna get all sorts of naval secrets and go to the enemy
• 29:36
  immediately. They can't help it. Their babies are—
• 29:40
  it's in their nature.
• 29:41
  They're oath-bound to follow the truth. They find something supposed to be a secret, they're going to reveal it as soon as possible.
• 29:47
  They have to.
• 29:47
  Oath-bound to follow the truth.
• 29:49
  All babies are.
• 29:52
  Most babies, as they grow older, break that oath slowly, you know.
• 29:57
  Yes.
• 29:57
  But as they're born, you know, they're true of heart and they want to do what's right. And yeah, you can't trust a baby. You just can't. Like,
• 30:06
  nope,
• 30:07
  don't tell them anything.
• 30:09
  Not with the secrets of a battleship, that's for darn sure.
• 30:11
  Yeah, you know, there's no place with more secrets than that. So I wouldn't even play the board game Battleship with a baby.
• 30:18
  No, no, heck no.
• 30:19
  But the other movie that this guy was in that I saw that was interesting, at least caught my eye at first, was something called Bloodsucking Freaks. Oh,
• 30:27
  I love the idea of this.
• 30:28
  The idea of this is amazing, right? But once again, I don't think it's what you expect.
• 30:33
  It's about jugglers.
• 30:34
  I wish. That would be kind of cool. Juggler sucking freaks. I don't know. Blood juggler freaks.
• 30:42
  Blood juggler.
• 30:43
  Blood jugglers. Oh, that's right.
• 30:45
  That's a good. That's a good.
• 30:45
  After Sooner cannibals, we're doing blood jugglers.
• 30:49
  Yep.
• 30:49
  I thought this movie was gonna be about vampires. That's immediately the first thought.
• 30:55
  Yes.
• 30:56
  But no. No. Why would it be about that?
• 30:58
  It's
• 30:59
  about ticks, isn't it?
• 31:03
  No. No. Not even close. It's about mosquitoes.
• 31:04
  Not bug-related, not animal-related. It is human-related.
• 31:08
  Okay.
• 31:08
  So it's about this like theater of the macabre that pretends like it's just putting on plays about women being tortured, but it turns out they're actually torturing the women.
• 31:18
  Yeah.
• 31:19
  Oh, what a twist. And, uh, things take an even further twist when the tortured women break free and become cannibals.
• 31:30
  Oh my God. So they're considered the freaks?
• 31:35
  I think they're the bloodsucking freaks. Yeah.
• 31:38
  Oh, come on.
• 31:39
  I know. I'm like, really? This is— I mean, after what they've been through.
• 31:41
  They're the freaks?
• 31:42
  We've crossed the line for Derek.
• 31:44
  I mean, they're the victims of torture and murder.
• 31:49
  Yeah.
• 31:50
  For public spectacle. And they escape and they get revenge and they're the freaks?
• 31:54
  They're the freaks? Yeah. We're going to punish them for what happened? Yeah. That seems a bit much. Come on. Yeah.
• 32:00
  Exactly.
• 32:01
  They start eating and torturing their ex-torturers,
• 32:05
  which— Is that fair?
• 32:05
  It's reasonable.
• 32:06
  Yeah.
• 32:06
  Honestly,
• 32:07
  no jury will convict him.
• 32:10
  Honestly, I think I would let it slide, but as long as they stopped
• 32:19
  at that. Juror number 4, we see here you did a podcast where you said you would let this slide. We're going to have to eliminate you from From the— yes.
• 32:30
  Yeah, well, oh, this is another case about cannibals. This guy keeps popping up. We can't take him. This pro-cannibal guy over here.
• 32:39
  You're recused. You can leave.
• 32:41
  I didn't really see this cannibal angle coming, but the title, the title does make sense.
• 32:46
  Nobody did.
• 32:49
  But the trailer said that the movie would make anyone rich, so just be aware of that.
• 32:53
  Now that is a draw right there. Anyone? I'll take that challenge. She won't make me rich.
• 32:58
  Uh, yeah, and the trailer was pretty gross.
• 33:00
  Unless they poop. If they poop, I'll retch.
• 33:03
  I would— that is worse than, yes, torture. Yeah, I feel—
• 33:07
  yeah, warm that wheel, warm that wheel spot up for Derek.
• 33:11
  So this, like, I have a pretty— I have a pretty iron stomach when it comes to, like, gross. Like, I don't— like, I'm not gonna vomit from it, but, like, I'll, like, be squeamish. Yeah, unless Like when I was a kid, my cousin had a goldfish and I almost vomited when the goldfish ate its own poop.
• 33:31
  Why did it do that? I
• 33:34
  don't know. It's a goldfish. It probably forgot that it was its own poop is my guess.
• 33:38
  Well, was it somebody else's poop? He's more intrigued.
• 33:41
  Well, go— no, I'm not messing up.
• 33:43
  Reset. 3 seconds later comes back around like, hey, look at this
• 33:47
  food, right? So my cousin, I, I will never forget this. I'm like, 8 or 9. I'm there with my cousin and the goldfish is on a shelf right by the bathroom and we're watching it and it poops and he's like, oh, look at that, it pooped. It's like, gross. He's like, oh, it's gonna eat it. And it did eat it.
• 34:04
  You just sucked a lot of bread.
• 34:07
  And I almost instantly vomited. I had to stop myself. Yeah, I ran to the bathroom because I thought I was gonna puke.
• 34:13
  Wow. Should have puked in that bowl. That fish would have ate it up.
• 34:16
  Probably. It was, it was above eye level though, so I— it would be— it would have had to have been like an arcing basketball shot for me to get it in.
• 34:25
  Okay.
• 34:26
  Yeah, even better.
• 34:27
  If I had such precision puking, I'd hit, I'd hit the road with that as an act and make money.
• 34:35
  Oh yeah, NBA halftime shows.
• 34:37
  Yeah, people would pay to watch that.
• 34:44
  Riding around on a unicycle, juggling, and then just the precision vomit. Yep.
• 34:51
  Yes, because people love to watch people vomit. It's known.
• 34:54
  This show will make anyone retch, Derek. Evil retch. Yes.
• 35:01
  Anyone a retch or anyone retch?
• 35:04
  Well, 2 different words. It could, uh, make anyone a retch as well, I
• 35:09
  guess.
• 35:11
  But, uh, anyways, yeah, the trailer's kind of gross. It's just a bunch of naked ladies getting tortured, um, and then a bunch of naked ladies eating people as well. So
• 35:20
  that's the trailer. That was literally banned.
• 35:23
  Yeah, there was a lot of nudity in that trailer. I'm
• 35:25
  like, okay, I'm gonna look this one up now. Oh God, Terry, that was so close. Yep.
• 35:34
  I wish I wrote down what year that lady got married. I could have got a little closer. I could have Really giving you all details, who her husband was, her family, who the bridesmaids were.
• 35:43
  Yep.
• 35:43
  Social Security number.
• 35:45
  We're gonna steal her identity. Yeah, I am Rosemary now.
• 35:51
  Oh,
• 35:53
  I am the Rosemary
• 35:54
  by law. I am. Yeah,
• 35:56
  man, that was, that was good. I, I laughed much harder than I, I thought I would during this deep dive.
• 36:04
  I try every once in a while to, you know, spice things up. But
• 36:08
  all right, well, should we talk about Alice Sweet Alice?
• 36:12
  Yes, I think we should. Probably.
• 36:14
  I'm trying to be obligated.
• 36:16
  I'm gonna like tee it up right now. This movie I found disturbing.
• 36:23
  Yes, it is disturbing. I think— yes, I agree with that.
• 36:28
  I, I don't know if I'm just throwing it out there like—
• 36:31
  no,
• 36:31
  it's kind of crazy, but I found found it a bit disturbing.
• 36:35
  Did I watch the wrong movie?
• 36:39
  Oh, I watched Alice in Wonderland, which also is kind of disturbing.
• 36:42
  But I mean, it wasn't like— it didn't blow my— it's 50 years old, right? So it's a— it's pre-all modern horror and all the slashers that happened after that, right?
• 36:54
  Right. It doesn't follow the tropes really of like those old— then they're like what you'd expect from a slasher movie. Yeah.
• 37:01
  But it was unnerving to watch some of the parts.
• 37:05
  Yes, some of the scenes are like, ugh, creepy.
• 37:09
  It wasn't like overly gory, but it was just unnerving.
• 37:12
  Yes, I agree with that. And like disturbing almost more in a psychological way. Yes, like a killer way. It's
• 37:19
  like an early, early A24 horror film.
• 37:23
  Yes, I could see A24 remaking this.
• 37:26
  That's, that's kind of the vibe that I got it because you didn't like— so when we watched, uh, Hereditary around this time last year, I like— there's a supernatural part to that, uh, obviously, and this doesn't really have the supernatural part to it, but it's, it's just the vibe of it and the way that it's, you know, set up and just some of the like odd things going on. Yeah. That's immediately what I thought. I was like, oh, this is like, this is like the equivalent to like, uh, you know, 1975's version of like an A24 horror film. It's, it's, it's not slasher like Freddy, Jason, Michael Myers type thing.
• 38:06
  No.
• 38:07
  But it's also just, it's just so odd. And there's just so many like extra, like over-the-top odd things, like the landlord guy.
• 38:16
  The landlord is very odd with his hats and stuff. Yeah.
• 38:20
  Yes. And just, you know,
• 38:22
  the whole thing is a very, like, almost, like, too over the top.
• 38:29
  Yes. Comically almost, like, cool and mean, rude.
• 38:33
  Jesus, lady, chill.
• 38:35
  Right. I did not like that character. No. I mean, rightfully so, you know? Like, the movie doesn't want me to like her, but I'm like, anytime that lady's on screen, I'm like, oh my God.
• 38:43
  Please be done with her.
• 38:45
  Yeah.
• 38:46
  Like, she almost gets killed. And I'm like, yes.
• 38:48
  They almost were done with her.
• 38:49
  I was like, I don't blame whoever did this. Like, go ahead.
• 38:53
  Yeah, almost killed her and then like doped her up so she never talked again. I'm
• 38:57
  like, yeah, she never said another word after that.
• 38:59
  Excellent.
• 39:00
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. It's got kind of a weird vibe, like, and I liked the like atmosphere a lot. Um, I feel like, yeah, it's kind of a— like, I was surprised because I did expect more like slashing to happen.
• 39:15
  Sure.
• 39:16
  There was some slashing, but it was like It was more about just like a—it was almost a giallo movie, like we talked about with the Blood and Black Lace. Like where it's like kind of more of a murder mystery, kind of a little bit, you know? Like a
• 39:28
  little bit, yeah. But it's really the mystery to it for sure.
• 39:31
  It doesn't really like go in the direction I expect. I thought I was like, oh, it's obviously gonna be Alice, you know? But
• 39:38
  then because also like, and I guess it's right around the midpoint, it's like. like they leave Alice at the hospital and then it's a whole different like thing that they're solving. Like they're— yeah, they're—
• 39:52
  yes,
• 39:52
  it's like, well, I guess it's not her anymore. Yeah, because it still keeps happening.
• 39:55
  Now I really thought— so what happens is the girl's sister is murdered in church.
• 40:04
  Yep,
• 40:05
  disturbing. Before her first communion even. And they, they do a really nice job of establishing the like the older sister, younger sister like jealousy and rivalry, which I thought was pretty accurate. Like, I have, I have an older sister and younger sister, and they both, uh, I mean, in my household, a daughter and a daughter, and they're both older and younger. And they have like, they're very rival-ish, and they'll argue and fight. They don't do anything like this movie, but you know what I mean.
• 40:34
  Yeah.
• 40:34
  Uh, so I felt that was there, and they did a real nice job of establishing that. And then they create Alice as the red herring, right?
• 40:43
  Yes. And it was like a very good job of that too, right? At the beginning you're watching, like, she's like so mean to her younger sister. She's obviously got some, like, you know, something's going on with her, like, that's making her act this way. Like, it's not just like she's being cruel for— to me it felt like, yeah, something has happened. And, you know, like, and I'm like, something— she's misbehaving.
• 41:06
  Was she— I like, I feel like they really skirt around it, but she was abused or molested.
• 41:14
  That's what I was thinking. Yeah, I felt like that.
• 41:17
  By the landlord, possibly?
• 41:18
  It could be. I, I mean, judging by what he tries to do later. Yeah.
• 41:23
  I didn't have— I don't have subtitles, so I couldn't read it, but I could have swore she said, you did that to me before, you'll never do it again.
• 41:28
  Yeah, the, the mom seems to send her down there a lot to like Deliver the checks and like
• 41:34
  yeah,
• 41:34
  give him like cake or whatever. So like she does go down there quite a bit. She doesn't like him, obviously. But she doesn't like most people in this movie. Yeah.
• 41:41
  Well, I mean, she's angry, right? She's at that age where she is angry because of just just that age. But it feels like something has happened. It's either him, and I really thought it was gonna be the priest for a while.
• 41:53
  Yeah, me too, me too.
• 41:55
  Oh well, and also like what her her dad is. left and has a new family already.
• 42:01
  So yeah, she's got the divorce anger going on too. Yeah, for sure. Abandonment.
• 42:06
  And, and also there, obviously there is like beyond just those things that, you know, you could kind of pick up on there. Like she's also very disturbed, like in— yes, like, you know, psychotic, you know, psychopath way, uh, as well. She's not your normal just angry teen.
• 42:26
  No, that's what makes me think there's something else going on. Yeah,
• 42:29
  yeah, that's like there's some something there that they don't get to, and they kind of hint at it. And I don't know if it's because of the time and they didn't want to— like, like, this has a very— because of, of when it was made in the late '70s, right? But it has a very '70s morality sort of thing to it, right? Still Still kind of harkening back to the '50s, not fully. Like, it's just there's just like a weird sort of uprightness to a lot of the characters.
• 43:00
  We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna kill somebody in the church, but, um, we, we're only gonna hint at,
• 43:06
  yeah,
• 43:06
  maybe what's causing this other person to be angry.
• 43:09
  It's more of a subtext, I think. Yeah, because I mean, like, not just the landlord is act like being a creep to her, like the cop and the other guy are kind of making weird comments.
• 43:19
  Yeah, the, the, uh the guy that was running the lie detector test.
• 43:24
  Yes.
• 43:24
  When he says, did you notice her tits? It's like she was sticking them out there like she wanted me to touch her.
• 43:30
  I was like, yes, disgusting, disgusting.
• 43:33
  What? I'm like, this— I'm like, no, that wasn't happening.
• 43:37
  No, and the other cops like nodding like, yep. Oh no, you creeps. Like, what's going on?
• 43:43
  This person clearly has an issue and it is not Good, right? Like yeah, it it's commentary. It's a person in power and all this kind of stuff. But it's just like ugh. Not didn't like that at all.
• 43:57
  The whole movie has kind of that slimy like vibe to it.
• 44:00
  Yeah, there's a lot of slime to this movie. And it's not for the people you expect the slime. Like the like I I really expected to be from the priests, but it wasn't.
• 44:08
  Yeah, the priest was like a nice guy the whole time.
• 44:11
  There's that angry the most upstanding. The priest and the dead were the most upstanding ones in the whole movie.
• 44:16
  Yep. There's that angry priest, I guess, who like couldn't see or hear anything. things. Yeah,
• 44:20
  he's just old Monsignor.
• 44:21
  He's old, he's just grumpy, but he wasn't like a creep or something as far as I could tell.
• 44:25
  Just wanted his cake.
• 44:26
  Yes, couldn't see or hear anything, but he wanted his goddamn cake. So I really thought that we were gonna find out that much like The Blood and Black Lace, we had like a 2-person operation going on. Oh yeah, Alice and the weird repressed cousin.
• 44:46
  Oh, the cousin. Yeah, right.
• 44:49
  When Alice got busted, they busted her for stabbing her aunt, but it wasn't her. I'm like, well, it's clearly the cousin then who hates her, who was
• 44:59
  missing
• 45:00
  at the
• 45:00
  same
• 45:01
  time. Exactly. I thought they were working in tandem. I thought that was going to be the big reveal, and it was not that at all.
• 45:06
  Yeah, I thought it was going to be that Alice had like a multiple personality thing where she thought Yeah, like her sister, her like ghost was possessing her. And yeah, you know, and so like it was her— she was telling the truth when that lie detector was doing like, it wasn't me, it was my sister. But it was, you know, in her head she believes that to be the truth, but she's— it seems not real reality. But that's not what it was at all either.
• 45:30
  No.
• 45:32
  And they were just this random old woman.
• 45:34
  Did they do the reveal too early?
• 45:37
  Yes.
• 45:38
  I felt like it did too. Yeah,
• 45:40
  they did not hint enough about That lady, like, she's need to be in the movie more. I feel like if she's gonna be the killer.
• 45:45
  Yeah. And that— and so that's kind of where I was like, man, this really like switches up and becomes a bit of a different movie. Same thing they got going on, but once they drop Alice off at, uh, you know, at the hospital thing and they're leaving her there at the, uh, the shelter thing or whatever it's called, uh, children's shelter, I guess. Yes, they put her there. Like, she's then gone for like the next like 40 minutes of the movie.
• 46:16
  Yep.
• 46:17
  As we find out it's this lady who, uh, is working at— she works at the church. Um, she's obviously, you know, wants to be in love with the priest
• 46:28
  is
• 46:28
  what it comes
• 46:28
  down to.
• 46:29
  She's the Monsignor's, uh, caretaker.
• 46:32
  Yep,
• 46:33
  yep.
• 46:33
  But now like she also Like, and she revealed, I guess she also had her kid got—
• 46:40
  her kid was killed.
• 46:42
  Yeah.
• 46:43
  And she determined then that the children pay for the sins of the adults, and now she's enacting— but I really think it's more that she's in love with the priest and is very jealous of any— because Karen gets killed because remember at the beginning the priest gives that necklace and cookies and stuff like that. Like, yes, the priest shows care and attention And then Karen dies.
• 47:05
  Yes. And then it's obviously that the mom and, and the priest have a connection, even, you know, if it's not, you know, anything that's being acted upon. They, they seem to have a connection that she's very jealous of.
• 47:21
  But the next one to die though is Tom, right? The dad? Or Dom? Yeah, or whatever his name is.
• 47:27
  Yeah.
• 47:27
  And he's like the priest's best bud. And they're hanging out and talking, and then he dies.
• 47:32
  Yeah, the only one who doesn't fit is the, the aunt.
• 47:35
  Yeah,
• 47:37
  but
• 47:37
  well, I think she was just a victim of circumstance.
• 47:40
  Yeah, she was kind of like, I have to— she's gonna catch me if I don't do this.
• 47:43
  And then that kind of is more of the red herring, which throws you off and makes you think it's Alice, because Alice has like this weird basement room full of like cockroaches and her— some of her sister's stuff, that doll, which makes you think, yeah, that it's her.
• 47:58
  Yeah, it is creepy.
• 48:00
  She's got the veil thing. She's got the creepy mask thing.
• 48:03
  Yeah. And she wears that mask.
• 48:05
  There is— well, and yeah, because there is a part towards the end where she goes and puts those cockroaches in with the landlord. Yes. And her mom comes down. She's like, what are you doing? She's like, oh, I'm just saying hi to him. And they're walking out and she's carrying this weird plastic mask with her down the steps. I'm like, wait a minute, like, shouldn't her mom be questioning her about this? Like, They don't— they— everybody—
• 48:27
  well, she wore that mask early on. Her mom's like, take that thing off. So she knows she has it.
• 48:31
  Yeah, but it's just weird that she's walking around with it again. Uh, well, I guess they don't— they don't have it connected to the other lady.
• 48:39
  They've never seen— whoever sees the mask dies, so they never know. Yeah, nobody else.
• 48:43
  Yeah, that's true.
• 48:44
  And there is a bit of a time there down the stretch where they're in the church and, you know, they're getting ready to You know, they got like the stakeout sting operation thing to take the lady down.
• 48:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 48:58
  And she's staring at Alice the whole time, and Alice just keeps looking back at her. So I kind of thought, Derek, your whole thing about maybe this was a 2-person operation
• 49:08
  together— Oh, I don't—
• 49:09
  I thought maybe they had some kind of thing that they were connected on here as well.
• 49:14
  Oh, I don't know. I think that's, that's too much to get the kid to like work with an old lady.
• 49:22
  Maybe the old lady was gonna kill her next or something.
• 49:26
  It felt like that
• 49:27
  was— that seemed like that was obviously what the, the thing was because she kept, um, I think because the mom was divorced or in the process of getting divorced and was still, um, you know, was still going to go to the communion. Which I, I want to say, like, I think there's like a period of time after divorce you're not supposed to be able to do that, maybe, or something like that.
• 49:51
  I have no idea.
• 49:53
  Because I know there's a— there was a period of time where, you know, after my parents got divorced, my mom didn't, didn't go up for communion for a while. I don't know all the terms and details of all that stuff, of how that works.
• 50:04
  Catholics are weird.
• 50:05
  Yeah. A
• 50:06
  lot of rules. A lot of rules.
• 50:07
  Um, a lot of rules. Yeah.
• 50:09
  And So it almost seems like she's there at the church at the end because she wants to kill Alice's mom. Definitely.
• 50:18
  Yeah, that's why she killed, uh, the landlord, because he saw her.
• 50:22
  Yes.
• 50:23
  And like accosted
• 50:26
  her. And then, uh, so, you know, they got their sting operation and like he's trying to make it so that she doesn't attack the, the mom or Alice.
• 50:36
  Yeah.
• 50:37
  Uh, in the communion line.
• 50:38
  Yeah, the cops are bad police officers in this movie.
• 50:42
  They are.
• 50:43
  Yeah,
• 50:43
  or bad detectives or whatever. Like, they're not good at their job.
• 50:47
  No, because they aren't.
• 50:49
  Dude, that scene where he's staking out their apartment, he leaves for 5 minutes to go take a piss or whatever, who knows, comes back, hears the screaming, just waits for a few minutes like Should I go see what's going on? Yeah, I think I will.
• 51:05
  Yes.
• 51:06
  So he can't kick open the door because he's a weakling, apparently. I've never tried to open a door, but
• 51:12
  breaks all the
• 51:12
  milk. Breaks the milk. Sees her run out the back door, and instead of going out and getting her, continues to go through the door.
• 51:22
  Well, he wants to make sure the person's, you know, maybe that person needs medical help or something.
• 51:27
  I under— I understand, but there's still something there that's like The, the initial reaction should be like, I need to follow them. I need to get that person.
• 51:37
  See, why are you just by yourself? Shouldn't you have like a backup with you? Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
• 51:42
  I thought maybe that was like just an odd camera angle where they showed her like quickly looking back and darting off before he actually got a clear, a clear look.
• 51:51
  He saw her face because he knew who she was.
• 51:54
  Yeah,
• 51:54
  because then they went to the church to do like the crazy communion sting.
• 52:00
  But the perfect time to do that.
• 52:01
  Yes,
• 52:03
  they're just all outside. He kind of finally comes out, he goes, okay, we gotta do it my way. I want, I want snipers up in the balcony. No, not in my church.
• 52:15
  I'm gonna burn the church to the ground with her in it.
• 52:19
  No, no, it's the only way to take her down.
• 52:21
  No.
• 52:22
  Yeah, I've set up a C4 explosive inside the church.
• 52:26
  I'm gonna give her a communion wafer that is C4, and then after she eats it, we'll detonate it.
• 52:31
  No, no, no. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Take it easy.
• 52:34
  I can handle this woman. I know her. I can handle her.
• 52:39
  It's a cyanide wafer.
• 52:42
  She's secretly in love with me. Trust me on this.
• 52:45
  Yeah.
• 52:46
  There's no way she'll stab me in the neck once I approach her, and then she'll hug me as I die.
• 52:52
  Yes, as the blood kind of pours over her shoulders.
• 52:56
  I like that. It was good visual.
• 52:59
  The other good visual is like the very, very end where Alice has grabbed up the stuff and walking away.
• 53:06
  Yeah, she's leaving with murder evidence.
• 53:09
  Yeah, she's definitely gonna become the next murderer, right?
• 53:11
  Yeah,
• 53:13
  the way she looks at that knife, I'm like, oh God.
• 53:15
  Yeah, she's like, I love knives now.
• 53:19
  I've learned so much about knives today. Yeah, I'm gonna start using these.
• 53:22
  Oh, okay, we need to talk about this because it was— to me, it was the most disturbing of all things in this movie. She's that comedian. She stabs the priest in the neck and just like just buries that blade into his throat.
• 53:40
  Yep.
• 53:41
  Everybody just stands and stares and screams.
• 53:45
  Yeah,
• 53:45
  like children, old women, old men, men, like everybody's just like, oh my God, like they— it's like Trolls 2, right? They're going to eat her and then they'll eat me. Oh my God, like they're just watching it happen and nobody reacts in a way that makes— makes like— not a single person did anything other than stare. And these poor kids Just watched their priest get an eight to ten inch blade shoved into his throat.
• 54:18
  Then the cop who wanted to like do all like the you know set up a sniper and everything, he doesn't even just rush in.
• 54:24
  He just kind of like strolls in. He's like, "What's going on in here?"
• 54:28
  Oh yeah, you're gonna see this happen.
• 54:30
  I told you we should have got the sniper. That's what you get.
• 54:35
  Boy, we waited till after communion to do this.
• 54:38
  Yeah,
• 54:39
  yeah. And then Alice is just kind of. meandering out and somebody runs up and just smacks into her.
• 54:44
  Yeah. Oh, the cop almost runs her over.
• 54:47
  And then we see that she's got that whole bag and she's like, what bag?
• 54:51
  With the mask and the knife in it, like the murder weapon itself.
• 54:55
  And then just— and then creepily looks at the camera.
• 54:58
  Yep.
• 55:00
  Kind of like that meme of the kid in front of the burning house.
• 55:03
  Yes, yes, very much so.
• 55:05
  Yeah, it's just like that. Yeah. Yeah, she kind of got an ornery look in her eye.
• 55:10
  I'm kind of surprised that the actor that played Alice wasn't in anything else because I liked her in this movie. I thought she was good.
• 55:17
  Yeah, I liked her too. I thought she did a good job.
• 55:19
  Yeah, I don't know, of, of all the actors in this movie, I thought she was the most unstiff, right? There's a lot of like stiff acting in this movie, but she was good. I like that kid, and kid actors are usually pretty hit or miss.
• 55:34
  Yeah, I mean,
• 55:36
  you— she did really have you trying to like sort out that, oh yeah, this is— she's definitely did something here.
• 55:42
  Yeah.
• 55:42
  Um, which—
• 55:45
  so, so that did kind of like make me wonder, like, obviously they're looking for like the kind of same person wearing that raincoat thing in the mask. Is it possible she still did stab her aunt, but like the other lady did all the other stuff? Like they, they weren't in cahoots together, but like
• 56:01
  I don't know. Maybe
• 56:02
  he like she figured out that you know maybe she had a way to do something. She didn't think she'd get caught for it, I guess. But she still really took could have taken out on her aunt. I kind of thought that as well.
• 56:15
  Maybe. But I mean, I know that I know in real life lie detectors aren't necessarily the most accurate. But
• 56:20
  no,
• 56:20
  in the movie, I feel like they treat it like it's supposed to be hit or miss. Yeah. It's like you know yeah. And she she does say she didn't do it, and it doesn't. Unless she was having like a psychotic break and didn't realize it was her. But I was gonna say, she doesn't even know somebody else did it, but she thinks it's her sister. So yeah, I think—
• 56:35
  yeah,
• 56:36
  I wonder if she saw the other person and because they both had the same raincoat from the church and stuff like that, she just— she thought it was her sister. Yeah, ghost coming back.
• 56:47
  Also, she never left that room. We all think she did.
• 56:50
  Yeah,
• 56:51
  but she never left her little creepy—
• 56:52
  There's a lot of like weird circumstantial things with her, like even at the end Because she goes to put the cockroaches on the landlord while he's sleeping. She leaves and then crazy lady walks in.
• 57:03
  Yeah, yeah.
• 57:04
  Walks up, right?
• 57:05
  And when she drops the cockroaches off, she's wearing the weird little mask and everything too.
• 57:09
  And the raincoat and stuff. Yeah.
• 57:11
  Could you imagine waking up and just a jar of cockroaches is on your stomach?
• 57:15
  Oh
• 57:17
  no, that guy, they— I don't know if they had to have made him intentionally gross.
• 57:24
  Yeah, I mean, he— it couldn't have happened, you know, happened to a very deserving person.
• 57:28
  But yeah, he was just a really gross human being and like individual in general. Like, I don't want to shame anybody for anything like that, but like, they made him—
• 57:39
  they like greased him up, I feel like, and made him like— yeah,
• 57:43
  yeah. He's eating cat food out of the can in the first like 5 minutes.
• 57:46
  I was, uh, I was— you know what, I kept looking to see— I kept I didn't get a good look at what it was. I was hoping that it was just tuna fish.
• 57:53
  That's what I thought it was too, but then I was thinking about it and I was like, hmm. He kept calling himself mommy to the cats.
• 57:59
  Yeah. Yeah. And then— I've got a cat.
• 58:01
  I don't call myself mommy to it, so I don't know.
• 58:03
  You know, he's—
• 58:04
  Oh yeah, maybe I will.
• 58:05
  It's apparent he's soiled the front of his shorts.
• 58:08
  Oh yeah. He's at— he's, he's, he's at a size where personal hygiene and bathroom use is difficult.
• 58:18
  Oh yeah, he wears the same clothes the entire time. It's like a
• 58:20
  week's worth of time that they made him intentionally gross.
• 58:26
  Yep, gross inside in and out.
• 58:29
  You're almost waiting for him to die the whole movie.
• 58:33
  Yeah,
• 58:33
  like I thought when I— when I thought it was Alice, I'm like, well, Alice is gonna kill this guy next. He has— she has to.
• 58:40
  No, it was an old woman who did it.
• 58:42
  Yeah, but Alice did put cockroaches on him, so that was her. And, and that's like another like redemption moment for her. That's like— that's her level of payback.
• 58:49
  Yeah,
• 58:50
  it's very childlike. I'm gonna put this jar of roaches that I've been keeping in the basement.
• 58:55
  Yeah, creepy still, but not as creepy as stabbing someone with a knife.
• 58:59
  Yeah, it's, it's miles away from murder.
• 59:02
  Yeah, yeah, you probably go to jail for that.
• 59:05
  Not even the same, like, area code.
• 59:07
  Much more acceptable. If I had to drain them, I'd say much more acceptable.
• 59:11
  Yes. Which would you rather have, cockroaches or be murdered? I'll be honest, I'll take the cockroaches, I guess.
• 59:18
  I guess if I had to pick, I mean, yeah, sure, I guess cockroaches are fine.
• 59:22
  I don't want them on me. No, but if it— if the other— the alternative is being murdered with my cats, yeah, I don't want to get murdered.
• 59:29
  With my cats, I'm gonna add a plus. At least I have my cats.
• 59:32
  Cats will eat you though.
• 59:35
  That's fine.
• 59:36
  You're dead and laying there, they'll just eat you.
• 59:38
  As long as they wait till I'm dead, that's fine.
• 59:40
  Yeah, that's all I ask.
• 59:41
  Yeah, they would eat that. They would eat the, the goldfish in the bowl first. And then they would have moved on.
• 59:46
  At least those cats, you know, that they got some— surely they'll have good homes after this, you know. I don't know. I felt bad for that cat. I felt bad for that cat that, uh, Alice like grabbed and— Yeah, it
• 59:59
  was about to snap its neck.
• 1:00:01
  Yeah, I mean, she had to get out of that situation because landlord was getting—
• 1:00:05
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:07
  But that was like that cat, that poor little cat.
• 1:00:11
  Yeah, you feel bad for Alice, and then at the end she's got that knife and you're like, oh, do I feel bad anymore? I can't tell because she's gonna get her revenge eventually.
• 1:00:21
  Maybe she was just looking at the camera. You know, maybe it's a coincidence. Some people just have that resting suspicious face on them, you know.
• 1:00:30
  Possibly.
• 1:00:33
  We know there was no—
• 1:00:34
  she was out. The obvious look was, I'm gonna take this to police and hand it to them. Right now.
• 1:00:37
  Yeah, she's probably just thinking about what she's supposed to do. She's like, this is weird, I didn't expect to have this in my hands. Okay.
• 1:00:44
  All right, boyos, did we do it?
• 1:00:47
  I think so.
• 1:00:48
  Did we get through Alice, Sweet Alice?
• 1:00:51
  Yep. I'm
• 1:00:52
  pretty sure you like it. Yeah, feel good.
• 1:00:54
  I know we— I know we got really close to her.
• 1:00:56
  Yeah, for sure. Too close. Landlord close.
• 1:01:00
  Oh God, no.
• 1:01:01
  Oh yeah, Terry, Terry, you got us landlord close. I don't like that.
• 1:01:05
  Oh, I apologize for that. Yeah,
• 1:01:08
  well, what'd you guys think?
• 1:01:09
  I thought it was all right. I liked it. Um, I thought I liked the vibe of like kind of just like the— I don't know, there's— yeah, like Derek was saying, like kind of that just like creepy, icky atmosphere of everything. Um, I felt like it was a little slow at times. I was kind of bored a lot of the time. Uh, the, the mystery is interesting, but I feel like the way it develops is kind of unsatisfying. Because the old woman really doesn't get any setup until like you just reveal that it's her and you're like, oh really? Weird. I feel like they need to build up that character more before it's revealed because they kind of do that afterwards, but they don't really do it before, and that's like halfway through the movie. But overall it was okay. I enjoyed it. Um, just a little too slow would be my main complaint.
• 1:01:53
  Yeah, I, uh, I thought it was all right, you know, considering I had, had not even heard of it, so The expectations weren't— I didn't have like any expectations of what to think about. It's not like, oh, this is a movie I've heard about and never seen before, uh, and that people talk highly about or, or talk, you know, negatively about or anything like that. Uh, it had some twists I wasn't expecting, and I mean, it— I guess it leaves enough questions. It's got enough creepy parts to it. I— yeah, that's all right. Yeah, it's not the best movie that I've seen, but it's also not the worst.
• 1:02:27
  Yeah, I think for the most part I liked it.
• 1:02:30
  I think it's a good kickoff to PowerPoint Month.
• 1:02:33
  Yeah, it was unsettling at parts. I, I like some of the stuff. I, I really enjoy church being ominous and potentially evil and stuff like that, and, or like spooky and creepy. Like, I appreciate that. I like, I like the, the, uh, superstitions associated with religion and whatnot. And I like when that becomes like a forefront. Um, clearly written by somebody who was not a Catholic anymore but had some grievances with Catholicism. Um, did enjoy it. Like, it was great. No, I'm not gonna dedicate my life to it. I, I think I've said that before about other things. Uh, but not mad I watched it. I'd give you— it's like middle of the road, like 5-ish, or, you know. Yeah,
• 1:03:21
  it's good. It's a good score.
• 1:03:23
  That was fine. Perfectly acceptable movie. And it was, and it was 1976 creepy.
• 1:03:29
  Yes, it is. Gotta give it props for, um, you know, doing something kind of a slashery thing before that was even a thing.
• 1:03:37
  Yeah, yeah. And you gotta like, yeah, you definitely have to consider the, the time and all the, the context of the movie. I thought it was good. Liked it.
• 1:03:47
  I also like the fact that— I also do like the fact that they're— that they didn't do a sequel because like it would just like Probably ran into the ground like most—
• 1:03:55
  oh yeah, it would just been her now as the killer. And
• 1:03:59
  yeah,
• 1:04:00
  going back to get revenge on who? The old lady? She's in prison, probably dead by now.
• 1:04:05
  Break into the prison and take her down.
• 1:04:08
  Oh, she gets herself arrested so we could kill her.
• 1:04:11
  I
• 1:04:11
  like that idea. That's a good one. And everybody in the prison dies except for Alice.
• 1:04:14
  She kills every single person in there. That would be pretty cool, Punisher style. You're not locked in here with me. I'm locked— wait, you know what I mean?
• 1:04:26
  Yeah, I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me. Uh-huh. He's got that weird mask on and just beating everybody up.
• 1:04:34
  That's awesome.
• 1:04:37
  All right, well, we know what we thought. What did the internet have to say? Well, on February 1st, 2023, the Lassa Fisher had this to say. The American giallo.
• 1:04:53
  Yes.
• 1:04:54
  Despite the ridiculous original trailer from the 1970s, which creepily describes the girls who were child stars in the film in a leering way. Oof.
• 1:05:06
  Okay.
• 1:05:06
  Alice, Sweet Alice is not a horror film that emphasizes sex, nor was it made in the traditional American slasher style. I first watched Alice, Sweet Alice in my early teens, and it was only later in my 20s that I discovered that I loved the Italian giallo subgenre of mystery and horror, and that this film, otherwise known as Communion or Holy Terror, is sometimes discussed by critics as the American giallo. Okay. Stylish, atmospheric, and beautifully disturbing, with the same hints of dark humor and over-the-top theatrics of its European cousins, Alice, Sweet Alice is one of my favorite films and its appeal endures decades later. Techniques which are sometimes credited to later filmmakers, like contrasting cute, old-fashioned songs with scenes of murder or death, were used by Alfred Soleil long before Oliver Stone or Quentin Tarantino, and even 4 years prior to Stanley Kubrick's The Shining. One wonders why this filmmaker didn't endure. As Alice, Sweet Alice stands out as Soleil's lone masterpiece of 20th century architecture, organized religion, and young girls with butcher knives. 2 found it helpful, 0 not so much. 10 out of 10.
• 1:06:32
  Okay.
• 1:06:34
  I was, uh, I did, uh, it did pop up when I was watching it on, uh, Prime. Uh, it said Holy Terror.
• 1:06:41
  Oh, really?
• 1:06:41
  And I had a pause and I was like, huh, why is this calling itself this?
• 1:06:44
  Mine said— my DVD said Communion on it, so that's funny.
• 1:06:47
  That's weird. And when I'm looking on IMDb, it says also original title Communion. Well, not to be outdone, on December 3rd, 2014, Evanston_Dad had this to say. So this is Illinois dad, just so you know, just north of Chicago. Okay. People are set on fire in churches and the film still manages to be dull.
• 1:07:14
  Okay.
• 1:07:16
  Around Halloween, a writer for the Chicago Reader posted his favorite 5 slasher films from the 1970s/80s. I hadn't seen any of them, and so I decided to check out the ones I could find. The list included Sleepaway Camp, actually pretty good. The Burning, decent but not especially memorable. And Alice, Sweet Alice. It's a stretch to call Alice a slasher movie, as it's much more of a mystery thriller. It also happens to be fairly terrible, a dull movie in which I had lost all interest before it ended. The killer is revealed about 3/4 of the way through the film, and then there's a seemingly interminable amount of movement Movie left that ties up loose ends, but the plot is a muddled mess, and who the hell cares about the loose ends anyway? I couldn't tell if this movie were meant to be taken seriously or if it was created as camp, which is a major criticism and indicates that the filmmakers did a terrible job managing the film's tone.
• 1:08:22
  I did not get camp out of this at all.
• 1:08:23
  You know, for those who care. This film might be notable as the first screen appearance of Brooke Shields, who gets whacked early on by being strangled and then set on fire during a church service. And yes, even at that, the film still manages, manages to be dull. Grade: D.
• 1:08:48
  Oh.
• 1:08:49
  8 found it helpful, 10 not so much. 2 out of 10.
• 1:08:54
  2 out of 10? Not a 1 out of 10. Okay.
• 1:08:56
  Not a 1 out of 10. It wasn't that bad. This guy acted like it was the worst thing. Like, what a boring droll, whatever. Like, yeah, whatever.
• 1:09:05
  Yeah, it was slow sometimes, but I don't think it was that bad.
• 1:09:09
  Wasn't that bad. No way. No way. All right. Well, we got through Alice, Sweet Alice. That leaves us With What's Left, and which is Terry taking control of the presentation.
• 1:09:26
  All right, so what are the genres?
• 1:09:30
  Yes, we're
• 1:09:30
  gonna— I'm just gonna recap our genres. So we got ghost movies, possession, zombies, we already did slashers, Christmas, sci-fi, based off literature, J-horror, werewolves, vampires, Australia, and public domain.
• 1:09:49
  I will say, Terry, you've broken these up in ways where I want to do all of them.
• 1:09:54
  You were curious about all what could be inside?
• 1:09:58
  Yes. There are a few that are, like, extremely curious to me, and I don't want to reveal what they are because I don't want to, like, persuade Keith in any way.
• 1:10:08
  And I picked the exact opposite.
• 1:10:10
  I have it, like, down to 3.
• 1:10:12
  Okay.
• 1:10:13
  And I almost feel like I got to pull up the wheel.
• 1:10:15
  I was about to say, are we going to Inception this?
• 1:10:19
  No,
• 1:10:20
  I can stop sharing.
• 1:10:21
  I'm not gonna wheel my 3 choices because then you'll see my 3 choices, Keith. I don't want to persuade you in any way. It's, uh, J-horror is my favorite.
• 1:10:30
  Interesting, interesting. We have 3 options. First option is Audition.
• 1:10:36
  Yes.
• 1:10:37
  Second, Uzumaki.
• 1:10:39
  Okay.
• 1:10:40
  And third, Pulse.
• 1:10:42
  I know one of those.
• 1:10:45
  Those are our options for the wheel.
• 1:10:47
  We had them on the wheel just so it's not 3. I doubled them up a couple times, and so we got tons of options. Here we go.
• 1:10:57
  Oh, okay.
• 1:11:08
  And it's Audition.
• 1:11:09
  There we go.
• 1:11:12
  Audition. Wow.
• 1:11:13
  How exciting.
• 1:11:16
  It is exciting. I've half seen it once.
• 1:11:17
  You've half seen it?
• 1:11:19
  Half seen it, yes.
• 1:11:20
  Okay, okay.
• 1:11:21
  So I'm looking forward to this. We got through Alice, Sweet Alice. We're on to Audition next week, uh, and then I guess that leaves us with nothing else to do, right? Other than ending this the way we end everything.
• 1:11:41
  By by freeze framing and staring deeply into the camera.
• 1:11:46
  Yes,
• 1:11:46
  it takes a lot to make a stew. A pinch of salt and laughter too. A scoop of kids to add the spice. A dash of love to make it nice. And you've got too many cooks, too many cooks, too many cooks, too many cooks, too many. There she is. Yep. Too many clothes, it's true.
• 1:12:25
  Thanks for listening to Fumbling Through Film. New episodes drop every Thursday. Got feedback or questions? Email us at fumblingthroughfilm@gmail.com. Follow us on Bluesky at Film Fumblers and on Instagram at film.fumblers. You can also follow Keith on Instagram at kg33lives and dadscardsdaily. Terry's on Letterboxd at Terry2099, and Derek's on social media at Derek the number 9 and the word 9. All original music is produced by the Dr. Dre of Kansas, Terry. Hit him up for the bangers. See you next week as we keep on fumbling.