Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Episode 772: The Heart of Leadership with Doreen Hills

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Episode 772: The Heart of Leadership with Doreen Hills · The Trauma Therapist

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  Or welcome back to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Gamiferson. My
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  mission is to help trauma therapist be their incredible selves, to be human,
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  to be real, not just a clinician. I'm a big believer in who
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  we are is more important than what we know, and this requires cultivating authenticity,
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  genuineness, and vulnerability, and that requires intention. Can learn more about
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  my courses and workshops by going to the Trauma Therapist project dot com. That's
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  the Trauma Therapist Project dot com. Let's get started, all right, So
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  five four, three, two and one, our folks, welcome back to
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  the podcast. I'm very excited to have back. Doreen Hills Doreen, welcome
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  back, Thank you, You're welcome to be awesome. So is a founder
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  director at the Center for Healing Trauma and Attachment. Their mission is to provide
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  cutting edge treatment approaches in healing traumatic distress and they're committed to finding ways to
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  provide quality and affordable therapy and to be the pioneer in healing trauma in the
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  North East region. Durine has been a mental health provider for over twenty years
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  and has worked in various mental health settings in New York the Philippines in Colorado.
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  Her background includes intense and immerseed experiences working with poverties, tricken fishermen in
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  the Philippines, orphans that were really neglected and abandoned, as well as Muslims
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  in Manila. These experiences give rommense insight to trauma, resiliency and healing during
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  Welcome Back. So you were recently on the podcast. The thing that just
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  struck me about you is you are so inspiring. I mean, not only
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  are your clinicians to be doing this, You've been able to You've drawn from
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  your own experiences living in a particular environment and then you you know, you
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  come to the days and you create and found your own clinic. Super inspiring.
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  I think for a lot of clinicians. What are we going to talk
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  about today? Because I know you said you had something specific you wanted to
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  share and I'm really I'm really kind of looking forward to talking about that.
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  Yes, So, you know when you said something about clinic, never in
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  my I guess it was a dream and never I thought I would, you
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  know, develop a nonprofit found found a nonprofit organization and especially focusing on you
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  know, the treatment of complex trauma. And it's so interesting now that I'm
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  wearing not only the clinician hat, but I'm also so wearing the founder and
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  executive director had you know, things have you know, it's not only shifted
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  but improved me as a human being. And since we are working in delivering
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  service to people that really impacted by complex trauma, I've learned something different about
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  leadership and it has something to do with how now, as a provider with
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  people that works under me, and many variety of people like the you know,
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  the healing arts providers and the office manager and also clinical workers and even
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  the board of directors, what can we do to make sure that we not
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  only take care of the people we serve, but also we take care of
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  the people working with us. And you know, I've been thinking, you
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  know, reading and thinking about you know, look, I look at different
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  kinds of leadership styles and something I've never really, you know, never thought
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  I will look into because you're a clinician, you're working with you know a
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  lot of it groundwork of clinical work that I've run into. How can we
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  implement I thought about this, how can we implement a trauma informed leadership?
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  And let me see here there you go there and so I think I looked
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  into that deeper now, in more in the leadership lens. And it makes
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  sense because we know, I think most of the folks that listen here,
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  we know the four pillars of trauma informed care practices. And this is with
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  you know, with the clients. First is realizing that you know, trauma
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  can happen to all of us, Recognizing this warning science and triggers, and
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  you know, how do we respond to be better healers and helpful to people,
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  and then resisting retraumatization. Those are the four pillars of trauma informed care.
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  And when you apply that, when I apply that in my leadership with
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  the people that I work with, you know, understanding where they're coming from
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  in a in a lens of kindness and compassion. So they're they're doing the
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  best they can. You know, they're they're working hard to you know,
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  to follow the mission of serving others. And as an organization and as a
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  leader, you know, I need to in my heart and in my mind,
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  I need to acknowledge that by you know, responding, how do I
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  respond? How do I support them? And that is by giving them opportunity
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  to you know, to to to show themselves, to show their their gifts
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  and their talents, not just their weaknesses or not just their you know,
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  not just the needs improvement. You know, I look at that respond responding
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  to them, to the people that work here, like what are the gifts
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  that they have? What do they have now that we wanted to promote in
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  the organization? And by you know, by doing that, we provide different
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  types of wonderful trainings for them, not only trainings, but also professional development
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  and also leadership. Well okay, so let me pause here for a second.
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  So the first thing that comes to my mind is wow. I mean
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  you started by saying you never even imagine yourself and this leader a leadership.
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  How do you find leadership? Being a leader? What does what does that
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  mean to you? What does that come to mean to you? You know
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  what it reminds me. I'm using the analogy of a parent, of a
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  safe and secure parent to a child. That's what a leader is when you
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  know that you're not perfect. I am an imperfect leader, but I know
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  and to seek help. I know that when I am you know, when
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  I'm getting burned out, and when i'm you know, i'm just pulling my
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  hair that I know that I know I can ask for help and I'm not
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  afraid of it. And my sense again, as you know, like in
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  the parent analogy, you know, we ask for help and we learn from
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  you know, we learn from others. I always believe that I evolve as
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  a leader and I improve myself when I am willing to hear and listen to
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  what my mentors are telling me, you know, and we're talking about and
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  I tell them, you know, give it to me. You know,
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  it doesn't matter how it might stink. It might stink the feedback, but
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  I know that deep within your heart, your intention is to help me,
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  to improve me, to develop me. And I think the biggest thing that
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  I've learned over the years as a leader at this at this this, at
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  Kata is to provide safety and security to the people I work with. I
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  don't think no one grow. Nobody grows when there's a there's a lack of
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  support and they don't and if they feel unsafe working here, you know,
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  I wish that you're here. You know, you're here with me. And
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  you can ask the people that I work with how much they love coming here
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  every every day. They're so inspired to just help people because when when you're
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  you know when you have when I am providing that safe and security for them,
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  they don't have to worry about being afraid. They can do their work.
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  Does that make sense? They don't have to be worried about Okay,
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  what this? What would Dreen say if I say this? Or what is
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  you know, She's going to be rejecting me. It's not existent here right
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  right? So when you when you first started, when you founded this this
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  organization, you know, the goal, I'm sure was to create this incredible
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  organization where you were providing care for clients, yes, and so was providing
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  or developing as a trauma informed leader. Was that like something you didn't really
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  think about to this extent. When did this come about? You know?
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  Yeah it it did not in the beginning. It's just all about you know,
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  working with clients. Sure, but then it's it's a it's a ripple
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  effect, right, Okay, Well, we wanted to develop, you know,
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  we wanted to provide safety, security in all those good trauma informed practices
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  to the clients. But in the middle of that or you know, clients
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  and leadership, but in between there are the providers. And I think,
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  what's the beauty of this? And I'm you know, I think I feel
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  good about this. The beauty of it is I am not only on the
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  top where I'm just directing people of what to do, but I'm also a
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  provider, so I know what's going on. You know, I'm still connected
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  to the people we serve, to the clients, and so sometimes you hear
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  leadership like let's say there's an executive director and they're just focused on the numbers,
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  the units, how much you know how much it's it's the numbers.
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  But I think I am in a unique role to where Okay, I'm doing
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  the executive leadership, but I'm also a clinician, so I know and client.
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  When when staff tells me they're burned out or let's say they are having
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  a difficult time with cases, I get them right. Does that make sense?
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  Makes a lot of sense. It's a completely different perspective. I mean,
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  it's there's such an air or a lens. I guess the lens is
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  a good analogy. The lens you're looking through is uh has such self awareness
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  about it. It's like, Okay, we're not just we're treating clients,
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  but what about the people us, the people who are working with you under
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  you in a sense for you mm hmm. And sadly, we see so
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  many you know, we see so many organizations that I think we tend to,
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  you know, to downplay the role of the providers. Doesn't matter if
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  you're a clinician or you're doing other stuff or the office. I think we
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  we have to remember that without them and without them feeling safe and secure,
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  they're not going to be able to provide quality work for the people we serve.
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  So it is important to pay attention to, you know, as a
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  leader, to to be mindful of how you take care of the people you
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  know, working you know, working with you. So the idea of a
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  leader, the definition of leader, how has that changed for you? How
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  has that evolved for you? Well, when you started, well, I'm
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  going to lead this organization to now, how would you define being a leader?
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  What does that mean? You know, I think it's been ingrained.
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  Sometimes there's no words for it, but I think it's ingrained in me back
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  when even when I was you know, again, the roots right when I
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  first when I came to the Philippines. It's I've always tell myself when I
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  was younger that I will always treat people with kindness and respect doesn't matter how
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  old they are, what kind of position they're in. And I've carried that,
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  you know, I think even if I am not running a trauma you
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  know, a trauma clinic, if let's say I'm running something different, I
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  will continue to you know, to provide safety and security to people by respecting
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  their dignity, you know. And it's always been, it's always been with
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  me and my definition of leadership. It may be simple, but providing safety
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  and security for others, you know, showing kindness and compassion to them and
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  giving it back to you as well. You know, it's not only a
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  one way street. You give it to your people, the ones that you
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  work with, and they you know, you get it. You know,
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  it's it's back to you. So let's say you tell them, you know,
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  to take care of your you know, take care of yourself, you
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  know, not just pizza and you know, not just pizza boxes and PEPSI
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  right, you know, when somebody tells you I'm burned out, okay,
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  well we're gonna have a part. You're gonna have to you know, a
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  couple of pizzas and and then everything's fine. You're not burned out anybody,
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  right, that's doesn't work that way. When you say self you know,
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  safety, say self care. What can I do as a as a you
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  know, as your your leader to help you achieve that self care? But
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  you also give that to you as well? So what does that look like
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  on my end? You know, I have wonderful mentors that I reach out
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  to when i'm you know, when I'm at lost or when I don't know
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  what I'm doing, and I also practice self care. So I think it's
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  it's a two way street. Leadership for me is two way street. You
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  give safety and security to the people that you work with, but you also
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  and you also give that safety and security for yourself. I think your your
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  definition and what you're speaking of here sounds pretty evolved to me of a time.
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  I think that when you know, we hear of leadership, how do
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  you define a leader? Well, it means uh, you know, setting
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  an example and showing people what to do and like really kind of uh pushing
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  right, almost forcing telling people what to do. But you're not even talking
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  about that. You're talking about something that is just feels so human, it
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  feels so elemental, it feels what's the word here, I love? I
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  mean there's a lot of love here that what you're talking about. I love
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  my people, you know, and I I do I and I don't.
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  And it's weird, right, Probably people say this is this really to some
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  folks? But I tell I tell my I tell my stuff. I love
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  them, I do, and I show it to them, and I think
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  that is you know, well, probably it's so unfamiliar to others. But
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  I think as a leader, when you open your heart to that that it's
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  not it becomes normal. It becomes easier when you say I do care about
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  you. And by the way, you know, even at the very beginning
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  when when somebody comes, I wanted to share this with you, when they
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  come on their first day of work, I asked them, how would I
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  know? How would I know that you are starting to feel stressed? What
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  are your behavior? What are the signs that you can show me or you
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  can tell me so I can better help you. And you know, that's
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  like for people, that is a weird question. But let's take a moment,
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  right, Let's take a moment. Nobody ever asked me that, and
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  so they open up and I said, okay, so I know what to
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  look for. And this is also what I want you to look for when
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  I'm feeling burned out right? What I like? Yeah, let me let
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  me let me answer that. I want to pause here for a second.
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  We're speaking with Doreen Hills, who's the founder director at the Center for Healing
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  Trauma and Attachment. Will We'll be right back. What I like about that,
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  Doreen, is that, I mean, it's such a great question because
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  not only does it shows someone that you're caring about them, but it also
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  brings up the idea that, yeah, we're human. A lot of us
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  get stressed. Most of us get stressed. We all get stressed. It's
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  gonna happen. Let's nip this in the bud. Let's bring this and talk
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  about this right now so we don't have to deal with this giant snowball of
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  stress, you know, three months down the road. It's you're already bringing
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  into the discussion. Ah, the health, the mental health of the people
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  you're working with. Yes, yes, that's exactly you know, nipping it
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  in the butt. And the first thing. First things first, let's figure
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  out again in the analogy of a parent and a child, you know,
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  a secure attachment, you know that using that as a lens to where Okay,
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  let's say I'm your you know, I am your mom. What do
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  you need from me? What can I do to help you in that way?
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  You know, you don't have to irrupt, or you don't have to
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  scream, or you don't have to isolate yourself. I can you can tell
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  me what you know, how I can support you. And so the moment
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  people you know I that's the first thing I asked them. And I think
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  that is a beautiful process because it's also it also instill honesty and truth and
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  knowing that, Okay, you know what if worst comes to worse, or
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  if I screw up, or if I mess up, you know, Dorena
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  is you know, Dorena is not going to condemn me or reject me,
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  right right, because it's what you said, We're all human. Yeah,
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  and that attitude is only going to seep out into the work you're doing with
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  your clients, right of course. It is exactly yeah, yeah, exactly
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  what an incredible model to set, not just for the people you're working with,
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  but your clients. I mean, this is something do you talk to
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  other like clinical directors about this? This is something I think you should package
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  and promote. I mean It's amazing, really, so glad that you you
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  asked that. So I have been. I did a training on civility and
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  leadership in Northeast Colorado, and I actually have about three, you know,
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  three clinical meetings with directors and you know, just teaching them about you know,
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  Okay, if we don't use trauma inform care, you know, we
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  may have you know, I use the word kindness and compassion and leadership,
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  you know, and I am I share that with them. I share them,
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  not the statistics, but what I've been learning as a director here at
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  the trauma center. You know, what can they do to implement this,
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  you know, in their organization. So I'm you know, slowly working on
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  it, and I do have Here's here's one policy that I have for staff.
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  I tell them gossiping is not allowed trauma center. We don't gossip.
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  We empower one another. And if we do have something, you know,
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  like aching your heart or just something that bothers you, you talk to the
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  person that you know that is involved. But we're not gonna gossip because gossip,
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  I do believe, is toxic and it, you know, it creates
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  division, which clients can feel, clients can feel a complex a complexly traumatized
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  client can feel that something is off, and so there's you know, the
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  moment I say that, like, Okay, well we're gonna you know,
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  we're gonna work as a team and if we have issues, we will you
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  know, we will definitely let people know. I mean ahead, I mean
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  not ahead of time, but let people know of what's going on. We
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  have that in our you know, we do have a one a month group
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  supervision and I ask them, everyone, are there any issues right now that
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  you have that you would like to share with me? We bring it all
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  up. It's nothing secret, you know, So it's it's all out there.
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  It's open, it's honest, and they don't have to bring this baggage
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  with them when they get home. You know, it sounds so incredible.
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  It sounds really like the opposite of kind of the work environments that I experienced
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  when I was doing my internship, and it was very much you know,
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  the interns against the administrative staff and the clinical staff. There was not anything
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  of what you're talking about here. It almost felt like we had to struggle
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  to do self care. It wasn't really built in, It was kind of
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  seemingly built in. They kind of talked, what is what is that?
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  Where did I get? Did you see those balloons? Did you see where
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  did that come from? That's the way they're cute now. But this sounds
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  like some people might say, well, yes, of course, but it's
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  not. Yes, of course this has to be intentional. Yes, yes,
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  it is. Are the challenges to implementing this type of or modeling this
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  type of leadership? I think the challenge that I have is the risk of
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  me burning out, I find myself, you know, because there's a lot
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  of care there, you know, but the reality it's, you know,
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  just the risks. But I've not run into that. The challenges of this,
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  Okay, there's one. People are having a hard time leaving the trauma
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  center. We have crying, We have have teers you mean like going to
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  another job, yes, or they have to move on, they have to
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  go out of state, you know, or something like that, you know,
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  life changing stuff. So the challenge is they get so attached to where
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  they have a hard time leaving. That's the challenge. That's a challenge that
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  we run. I don't know if that's even a challenge. It is worth
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  it, guy, I think I just that's the reason why I pointed this
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  topic to you because I think it is important. You know, as clinicians,
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  we're not trained to be leaders and you know, we're not trained to
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  do that. It's we think that it's only for business admin type of work,
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  but the reality is, you know, we are already applying leadership not
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  you know, when we work with people, people that we serve and also
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  our clients. And I think this has to be normalized. And I think
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  it is important when we don't know what we're doing, that we are actually
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  seeking for help. And this is the big thing for me, you know,
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  for me to to get out of that risk of burnout, I need
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  to be honest and I need to be true and genuine to my mentors,
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  like I am struggling right now. And you know what, I also utilize
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  the role of the board. You know, I will meet with them and
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  I will tell them I'm struggling on such and such and such, can you
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  help me? So this is part of again them feeling like, you know,
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  they feel value that I'm asking for help and I feel valued for their
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  wisdom. Is there any sense or trepidation or fear that you would have about
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  being so vulnerable to other administrative staff, or your bored or like for fear
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  that oh my god, you know Duren is feeling burned out? Can she
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  do this job? Is there's none of that for you? Yeah? You
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  know why because I think again it goes back to humanity. How about you?
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  I mean I can bring that, you know, if somebody, somebody
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  bring that up to me. How about you? Do you ever feel that
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  moment of burnout? Because everybody we all do, we all do? We
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  all do, and so fear of maybe you know, sometimes maybe incompetence or
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  she cannot do this, and you know I I don't, I really don't.
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  And I think my fear is not being open. My fear is isolating
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  myself, which we all know. When you know, trauma continues to you
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  know, it's like a yeast. Trauma continues when you isolate yourself when you
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  withdraw. And so I mean yes, insecurity of course, who would not
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  be insecure doing this kind of stuff? So help me or figure out how
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  to you know, find resources. No, I don't feel that, yeah,
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  that fear, you know, I mean I like what you said about
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  you know when when a lot of therapists don't think of themselves as leaders.
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  You know, oh, that's the you know, clinical director, or that's
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  that person in that office over there. I'm just I'm just a clinician or
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  I'm a therapist. I'm not really a leader. But what you're saying is
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  is that's not entirely true. This this is kind of really resonating with me
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  what you're talking about here. You know, I I to you know,
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  to figyback on that. I tell clinicians, the non traditional providers, I
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  said, I tell them, you you are not you know, you don't
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  need to be you don't need to be cooked in this room. There are
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  so many things that you can do besides, you know, other than being
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  stuck in these four corners. And what I mean by that is, look
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  into the other gifts that you have. When I work with when I do
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  when when my when my staff and I do six months or you know,
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  three to six months evaluation. I ask them, Okay, you're getting the
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  hang of this. You're a good clinician, you're a good provider. What
• 28:25
  are your other gifts? And how can KATA promote that and empower that in
• 28:32
  you? So somebody might say I'm good in outreach. Okay, girl,
• 28:37
  you know, I tell them, just go ahead and okay, what can
• 28:41
  we do to get you started on out you know outreach? Do you need
• 28:45
  to have a little bit of professional development? I can help you on that.
• 28:48
  Do you want to do grant writing? Well, I'm good in you
• 28:51
  know, the narrative, the story. Okay, would you like to consider
• 28:53
  this? I tell people you're not you're not cool, or you're not isolated
• 28:59
  and just doing clinical work. Because when you when you isolate yourself, or
• 29:03
  when you just tell yourself you are just a clinician, you will grow,
• 29:07
  you will you will get burned out from that. You've got to do other
• 29:10
  things too well. When during your education and your development was this modeled for
• 29:18
  you? Where does this come from? You know? I just thinking about
• 29:25
  that question now. I when I was in the Philippines and this was,
• 29:30
  you know, my bachelor's degree in psych we had we had this course called
• 29:37
  industrial psychology. It was really a very cool course and I wish, I
• 29:45
  wish we have this in the US. It really it really helped us dive
• 29:51
  in to the you know, the human resource field. In fact, I
• 29:57
  you know, I was trained when I was taking the of course, I
• 30:00
  was trained to be an interviewer, like an employment you know, interview.
• 30:04
  And actually my internship was you know, I used the lens of industrial psychology
• 30:11
  there and so that's where I learned leadership. That's you know when now in
• 30:18
  that was you know, a bachelor's bachelor's degree. But then when I came
• 30:22
  here to the US, there's nothing like that. So you know when I
• 30:29
  so I used that, I used that model. I use what I've learned
• 30:32
  when I was in the Philippines. But then I think this, you know,
• 30:37
  I it's I need to know more about it. And and I actually
• 30:42
  enrolled in in this leadership training with Michael Anderson and it's getting into the really
• 30:49
  nitty itty gritty of leadership. And also I looked into Simon sin Next leadership
• 30:56
  you know, leadership model, and I think that's pretty much it. You
• 31:00
  know, I just know ingrained in my heart and soul that you treat people
• 31:07
  right and they will treat you right, so as we can that's the foundation
• 31:11
  for me. Yeah, I mean that that it goes back to that that
• 31:15
  simplest of all UH sayings in a sense. So as we as we kind
• 31:19
  of wind down here, Dorian, people listening to this, a lot of
• 31:23
  therapists, of course, of all types and kinds. What would you say
• 31:29
  to them in terms of if they're if they're listening to you thinking, Okay,
• 31:33
  how how do I implement this? I'm a therapist, maybe I'm in
• 31:37
  private practice, maybe I'm working in a clinic. How can I utilize what
• 31:45
  Dorian's talking about? How can I implement what Dorian's talking about? What can
• 31:48
  I do? What would be a good first step for them? To sum
• 31:56
  it up? I think going back to knowing who you are. You know,
• 32:05
  what is your motto? What is your vision as a helper? Are
• 32:10
  you just going to you know, to cope yourself in one corner? Or
• 32:17
  you know your capacity, you know your gift, you know what your strengths
• 32:21
  are. So how can you what do you need to do to sore it
• 32:27
  to show it to people? You know yourself, You know yourself, your
• 32:30
  genuine self, because you are more than I believe that you are more than
• 32:37
  a clinician. You are more than that. Like I mean with me,
• 32:42
  I never expected or even you know, never realize that I will be running
• 32:45
  a nonprofit a nonprofit organization. But I I challenge myself and I told myself,
• 32:54
  I I know I can do something more than what I'm doing now and
• 33:00
  again in the framework of helping people. So knowing your vision, who are
• 33:06
  you? Why are you? You know, asking yourself that and hope,
• 33:14
  hopefully you know, be able to find your journey besides just doing you know,
• 33:19
  doing therapy work, because you are more than what you're telling you know,
• 33:22
  telling yourself you are wait great place to end here during all right,
• 33:28
  So let's remind people where they can learn more about you and what you're doing.
• 33:34
  At the Center for Healing Trauma Attachment. Yes, so they can connect
• 33:38
  with me www dot c h t A, Inc. Dot org. And
• 33:45
  if people are interested to, you know, to ask me questions or whatever,
• 33:50
  there's a feedback section there that they can you know, it will it
• 33:53
  will go straight directly to my email. So that would you start? Awesome?
• 34:00
  Juran in so inspiring. Every time I talk to you, I'm like,
• 34:06
  you're doing it. I really appreciate you, you sharing your your heart.
• 34:12
  Thanks for being here again. Thank you so much, guy, I
• 34:15
  appreciate you too. All right, take care, all right,