Latest / WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas / 63. How To Change Careers Successfully with Ava

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63. How To Change Careers Successfully with Ava · WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I have a important question.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do you hate your job?
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know it's not the one, but you don't know what to do next, especially when you want to do so many different things.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you figure it out?
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: How can you change jobs or an industry successfully without wasting any time and making sure the one you do find is aligned to you?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry I asked you more than one question, but a few difficult questions.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if you need support, don't worry.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I got you.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm joined by my client Ava, who successfully found a new career job and industry where she is now in more alignment.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's brought her joy in the past several months since she got this new job.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't just talk about how it was great for her to find this job after two months, but also the anxiety, the process.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I also share the steps on what you can do to find a job that meets your values, strengths, and the work-life priorities that are important to you.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's drop the beats.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm Elaine Lucarthas.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a business and career coach for women of color and allies.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: LA Weekly awarded me the number one thought leader.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: And Apple News named me one of the top five business coaches.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Going through an identity crisis, professionally or personally, we'll get ready to have some conscious conversations.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now grab your coffee, tea, or boba, and let's color your dreams too.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Lead your legacy.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: And Ava and I finally met each other, what?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, last month for the retreat?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: In person last month, yeah.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been working together for almost five months now.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And within, I think, the first two months, Ava was able to find a new career, a new job at the Department of Justice.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And living at this amazing place in the East Coast, congrats, Ava.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much, Elaine.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I've been a fan of the podcast for a really long time.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was a fan since we started working together.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's super surreal to talk here today.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And your dreams are coming true because you said you've always wanted to be in a podcast, right?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've always wanted to get into it.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Me and my sister love podcasts.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: We always talk about it.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're always like, what are podcasts we?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's fun to be here to get started.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe the next time we have a conversation, you're going to end up having a podcast with your sister.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Stay tuned, listeners.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Stay tuned.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Ava, I would love to hear your thoughts.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where were you at in life that made you well, before we begin there, I just want to let our listeners know.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, Ava's gonna share like her own experience in terms of how she was able to successfully change careers.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because you are professionally playing the cello.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: So to go from playing the cello to even now working at the Department of Justice, having your dream job, living in a dream city, even though I think LA is the best, but whatever.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna have that type of fight here.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to push an agenda that makes you feel uncomfortable of how LA is better, you know?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, let's keep ourselves in track.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Ava's gonna be sharing her experience, but where were you at that made you decide I need to look for a career coach?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what made you decide to do that process?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, that's such a great question.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: After college, you know, I took an internship at the legislature in my home state in Utah.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I studied music in addition to public policy.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that's always kind of been part of my life.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And after that internship ended, I knew I wanted to apply to a full-time position.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so amidst, you know, working in gigging full-time, I really like knew that now was the decision time.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I'd been in school for the past what 16 years.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, okay, now there's not a curriculum and there's not a professor.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's about me and about what I want.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, there was a million different directions I saw myself going.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And this was something that we talked about in our consultation of like law, finance, music.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was interested in coding, I was interested in government, I was interested in art.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: There was all these things that I had always considered like in the back of my mind, but had had always kind of told myself, oh no, like that's not on the radar.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I was overwhelmed by those feelings and those options.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd been in a number of different positions.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I just came to a point where I said, okay, I want to make this choice based on what I want and not on what anyone else wants or expects from me.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so skeptical about making the investment because it is an investment and a consideration for yourself.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I was putting in so much work at the time to save money, but I looked at my, like, looked in the mirror and I thought, okay, this is worth it.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: But it seems an investment in myself.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I knew I wanted to hire a coach.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you're like everywhere, right?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: You were like, I'm interested in possibly coding.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do business consulting.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think I want to go back to government.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And what's interesting to validate for our listeners here, there's a lot of people that feel that way, especially since like 2020 when things shook up.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's still shaking up, unfortunately, of like, what is life?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: What do I want in my life?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I was sharing you the process of informational interviews, how you could start talking to people.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to share that process of what I taught you when, as I've been working with you, I mean, you're still a client, of doing informational interviews and that how that helps you figure it out.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: But can you share with listeners that process?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, the framework that you give your clients.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I thought it was invaluable.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was one of my favorite parts about the experience early on.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: It essentially just allowed me to approach the job search instead of this like huge, stressful thing that I was like thinking of it as because it's overwhelming and all-consuming.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: I instead thought of it as an opportunity to explore what I was passionate about.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I took all the boundaries off of my exploration and what I wanted.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And just kind of like, it's like that kind of childish play and curiosity.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what information interviews really was about for me, because it was like, okay, I took this coding class, I loved that.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk to the professor, let's talk to a UX designer.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, I'm interested in law, let's talk to lawyers.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I saw jobs not as like titles that I had to have to make a salary, but as lifestyles that you live based on what you value and where you want to make a difference.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it wasn't just like shallow about making connections, you know, about, you know, the idea of networking.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was about like following what was a good fit for me.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I loved how you would always check in and say, how did that make you feel?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: What did you feel was a good fit?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And based on those conversations, you can find out more about the things that were a good fit.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that, you know, helped me not just recognize the possibility, but to like behave like I knew that there was possibility, if that makes sense.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Just in case people don't know what informational interviews are, informational interviews are a way to basically put a list of people and connect with them about specific within specific industries and jobs that you might be interested in and ask them.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because what I hear so often from people that are interested in working with me, like, I want to do A, I want to do B, I want to do C, but I don't know which one.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to waste time.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: All right, I'm already in my X age.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm already doing this.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've invested so much time in my career.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: If I do something else and I realize I don't want it anymore, I'm gonna waste time.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: So to save time is doing informational interviews.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And to do informational interviews is start putting a list together.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what we did, I remember, like putting a list of three or five coders that you probably knew.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Business consulting was another thing.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Also, you're considering like working in the government.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: And what's important is not just doing it, but asking the right questions.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you have work-life balance?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Are is there able to speak growth?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is the salary range?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Can you share your background of like those conversations for you, what you learned from it and why they were valuable versus Googling it?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a really great question.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: When you talk to someone in an informational interview, you have the opportunity to get personalized feedback and to say, oh, I'm really interested in like this specific thing.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about that?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Was this a good fit for you?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: What does it actually look like in the industry as a person who's living in it?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, doing research is a great supplement in our informational interviews, but actually talking to people and forming those connections really lets you incorporate everything you learn into your applications in a way that's so specific, especially if you're targeting specific companies.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I found that really helpful.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like it helped me really triangulate the application process.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And like along the way, you kind of understand the kind of people who go into each of these disciplines.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, like for coding, I just noticed everyone was really introverted, and there was not a lot of like working as a team in a lot of the companies that I was most interested in.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like, okay, it's easy to rule that out because that's not the work environment I'm most passionate about.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So there was lots of elements of understanding what kind of people environment is a good fit for me.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And as far as specifying on like salary and lifestyle and work-life balance, everyone kind of had a different answer.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that was really cool because it taught you how these industries value those things in a way that's more in-depth than when you just look it up.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because you understand it from the inside instead of just from the service level.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's hard to, it's hard to say because there are so many of them.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like the learning that I experienced was something that I can have for a really long time.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it was more profound than I thought it would be.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: And what Ava was even sharing, it wasn't just the questions, it wasn't just even choosing the people, but even doing that reflection, like you were talking about earlier this episode of did I like what they said or they didn't like it?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're using your internal GPS.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: So what made you decide?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you kind of shared it.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: I know with coding, you notice introverts, not as much collaboration, but how did you make the decision?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, I want to do government as you're doing all these informational interviews.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Another book you recommended to me was What Color is your parachute?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I did that, and I really loved it because it breaks down like the job search process into the things you care about the most.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it really helps you to get your priorities straight.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And informational interviews forces you to do that because you're trying to pare down your options.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you say, okay, I have all these options, but I know that I have to make a trade-off somewhere.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: What do I value most?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the reflecting really helped a lot to say, okay, this has a lot of things I'm interested in, but it doesn't have the things that are most important to me.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how I know to leave it out.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I loved it because when you really consider what's the most essential to you and what you want in your life, it's much more transformative than if you take in any opportunity that comes your way because you start tailoring your experiences to your needs, and it's really, really fulfilling in like a very foundational way.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and to be ch to let listeners know, I remember Ava was like not sure if she wanted to work with me.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, I don't know, Elaine.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then you just trusted the process and did it.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then what, within two months, like you just found your job.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was just insane how fast your results were, but you trusted the process and you were having conversations with people.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: I know the next process we did was updating like your resume and updating your LinkedIn.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: And for a tip for people listening, when you've already figured out what industry that you have, what you want to do is research.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let me look at other job descriptions, let me print it out.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Let me see what are common words, themes, and experiences I noticed.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then you start tailoring your LinkedIn and your resume to that so that you could find the right person or find the right industry and then find the right job for you.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Can you share your experience with that?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was also one of my favorite parts.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was really nice.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you made the process easy.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, I will say it sounds so glamorous when you say it like that, like, okay, within two months.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're in it, it feels just absolutely endless.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a complete torment and it's full of misery, and you're like, this is never gonna end.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I will say that like it's so easy to like say, okay, I have like these results, but that's like not a result of like like it's a complete struggle to get there.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to acknowledge, like, for everyone on the job search, like it's so valid to just not be having a good time.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because it sounds amazing to be like, oh my gosh, you're doing your dream thing.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like there was a c so many days that I was like, this is really, really hard.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go there then.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: What what made you still keep going, knowing that it was so hard?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everybody has their own motivation.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: For me, like, I'm really passionate about making people's lives better.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to figure out how to do that in a way that made me happy.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like why I was in coaching.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I had this year off after college, and I was like, let's I felt really fortunate.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Let's ask myself, I had this time, what do I want?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I knew that it was gonna suck and be hard, but I think sometimes when you struggle the most, you learn the most.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: So what kept me going was the curiosity, the people I met, my family, my support system, and knowing that like even though I didn't really think that it would, it would end eventually.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's a light somewhere at the end of the tunnel, even though in my heart I was like, is there a light at the end of the tunnel?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: There is.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: There is one.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's so easy to be like blinded by that terror of like, oh my gosh, I'm never gonna find a job.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I think throughout the process, and especially like when I got towards the end of the application processes, I started to see my value in the workplace and see why I was a desirable candidate and be able to articulate that really clearly and be able to, to your point, tailor it really directly to the job description in a way that was just super objective and super clear.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the hiring manager can easily see, okay, this is why you're an excellent fit to the position.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I can answer the the other question too if you.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, go ahead.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, well, we're kind of there anyways, but how were you able to tailor it?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like describe that process for you.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And how even informational interviews helped you too as you were looking at other resumes and job descriptions.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Informational interviews, when I talked to someone who was really passionate about their work, it made me really look at that organization and say, okay, like they have an amazing work-life balance.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: They really love and are interested in what they're doing.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let's check out this position.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is this a good fit for me?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then once I've I really got more into looking for applications, then you kind of get better at at a first glance saying, like, is this something I want?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Is this something I don't want?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it makes it much easier to say, okay, this is something I do want.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: My biggest thing was that helped too was getting really specific about the kinds of jobs I was looking for and the kinds of organizations I wanted to work for and the exact locations I was interested in, and you know, the work environment and the values of the organization.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: So when you have all of the really specific criteria, then it makes the process a lot easier because instead of considering everything on the globe, because I was geographically flexible, I was like, okay, actually, here's the places I'm really interested in living, and here's the industries I'm really interested in getting involved in.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then it becomes a much shorter list.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you tailor it, because you know exactly why you're interested in in like the position, it's so much easier to say, here's why I'm a great fit, and here's why this would be a great fit for me, why I'm why I would travel here, why I would live here.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you made the process really seamless too, to break it down and to pull the job description into a word doc.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then under each bullet point, articulate, okay, here's one bullet point from the job description, here's one bullet point from my resume that fits that.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that was so helpful.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then re-aggregating that into your resume, that like was like, okay, it made it so much less confusing to say insert keywords throughout your resume.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: I hope everyone is taking notes with what Ava just said.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: With getting the job description, looking at each thing and putting examples of what you've done in the past.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just easier.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, that was insanely helpful because when you know that the hiring manager can see really clearly why your resume is a great fit.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's like not even a concern.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's so easy to be like, okay, I just want to paste in keywords.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, what if you actually tailor your bullet points to the position?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Legacy leader.
• 18:59
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• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Elaine, you have such good stuff here.
• 19:03
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• 19:04
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• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's get back to the episode.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: I know I don't mean to bring the anxiety back up, but it's like facts in terms of when you want to, when you're looking for a job, how anxious it gets.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we unfortunately live in this Amazon prime world where we think about how things are going to come to us within one or two days, right?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: We want to know what the end result is.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: What I was coaching you through and through a lot of my clients is being unattached to what that end result is and like trust the process and the journey of receiving more clarification while at the same time making sure you are listening to your gut and intuition.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I find so hard for people when they're wanting to switch careers, looking for a job.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, I need this deadline, right?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: I need to make it by X amount.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I got into career coaching is because I've gone through the journey where, I mean, I'll be honest, I was like fired or I lost a job.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh shit, I need to find a job right away.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I was never intentional about my job search.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then I hired my own career coach when I was in my early 20s.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I went through this process of, okay, let me have conversations, let me be intentional.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And being intentional made me feel aligned where I ended up with my dream job prior to having my business at Pasadena City College.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so glad I took that time, even though it did take me, I want to say four months to find like a new job.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: But to your point, I just so much anxiety.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I had to also like, I don't know if you had to do it, but like I don't want to talk.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: To a lot of people about it.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Just the people that I felt safest with.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because I also didn't want to be annoyed about it.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, how's your job search?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's okay.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: You got this.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or they expect like an emotional rant.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so how did you protect yourself emotionally and mentally?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's a very like soft patch in your life, you know?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's so vulnerable and uncomfortable.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's such a good question.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Especially I I was living at home.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: So my parents are always there being like, what are you up to?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I made the decision early on because I love my parents to absolute death.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: But to your point, it's really hard throughout the process to continue to check in, especially if it's like you feel horrible or are having a bad day.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to be like, you know what, it's going horrible.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then people internalize that about you and behave to you as if it's going horribly, if that makes sense.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: What I really appreciated was just being really objective when I checked in with my family or close friends about it.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And just saying, I'm considering these things and then just keeping it general at that and letting the exploration process be up to me.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's here.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was sighing because that was just beautifully stated and said that you're protecting your piece, saying things objectively, so that you get to be able to validate your emotions and co-regulate yourself as opposed to having to respond to someone else's emotions and what might be triggering for them as they know you're going through this process.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really great because I never had to coach you through that.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: You had just really wonderful and strong boundaries, even if it probably didn't feel that way.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm just throwing confetti to you just to know that you are amazing through that process.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Elaine.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to my therapist.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I've given this tip to all my clients.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: You Ava heard it from me during the retrieve, but like seriously, when you are changing careers, like I'm sorry, I'm just gonna warn you having a coach and a therapist, like that is the type of bowl you want in your team.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Unstoppable combo.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: What tips do you have for people who are in that like unwavering?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just hate my job.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: I hate my industry.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, I can't do this anymore.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: I need something to change, but I don't want to rush into it.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: What tips or advice would you have?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want you to think about that moment for yourself.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think number one is be kind to yourself.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know everyone's like, okay, sounds woo-woo-y.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, like seriously.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like do things for yourselves that you couldn't usually do when if you're unemployed when you have a job, or if you're employed in a job that you dislike, then take a little bit of leeway.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe take an extra 15 minutes in the morning to go on a walk, something like that.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can, you know, like spend a lot of time outside, like take good care of your body, spend time with friends, find that nourishing and abundant energy in your life, and know that this is only temporary.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it felt so permanent to be in the job search.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that strength, you know, enabled me to feel really powerful entering my position because I know that I can always advocate for myself.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's my advice is that you can always advocate for yourself, for your needs and your wants.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't see it where you are, you can find it somewhere else.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And okay, my second tip is get specific.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I already talked about it, but that was the biggest thing I realized throughout this process.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like get specific on what you really want, what skills you love most, how that fits with you personally, what you're passionate about, what your mission is, your philosophy on life.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: What I love about your coaching is it's about legacy and about what you want to leave for those that come after you.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And really asking yourself those questions when you're trying to pivot to a new career or get a job after being laid off and not having a job.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it helps you to act in alignment with your values and with yourself and your heart.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: And there's nothing more freeing when you're in that place.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you gave some tips.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: So would you say that's like the one takeaway that you would want our listeners to get to get from being specific by brain dumping and brainstorming?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else you want to add to that?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like any last reflective question or tip for folks?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: I guess as you gain a greater and greater understanding of what it is you're looking for in a position, it becomes easier and easier to apply and to fit the requirements of the jobs you're looking for.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, so when I applied, it was because I had talked to people who'd worked at the company and the agency already.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew based on my research in those conversations that the position would be a good fit.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know that it's a good fit, it's much easier for the hiring team to see that because your application doesn't just say, give me a job, I'm the best.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: It says, no, I'm the best possible hire for this position because A, B, and C are my differentiator.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so that that's my advice is to give yourself leeway to go as far deep as you want to and to really get curious about what your life looks like in the most ideal version of your heart and your soul.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, everyone that's listening.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't Ava deserve to have a podcast?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just so insightful.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it should be called Ava Awareness.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, we'll we'll table, we'll table the brainstorming another time.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to watch this where we were just gonna tell jokes.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: But that sounds cute.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: For those that might be interested in wanting to work with me, can you share your experience working with me and why you decided to hire me?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I sat on the color your dreams podcast through Mac Pritchard Find Your Dream Job podcast.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I started listening to all the episodes in New York City earlier last earlier this year, actually.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I was struck by the ability of Elaine's clients to make these seemingly impossible transitions from completely unrelated industries.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that's fake news.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then I kept listening.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, it's not.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I struck a consultation call.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I at the time I had done a lot of work from the job search, but I was feeling still so like, ah.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: And Elaine basically took everything I had done, the work and thought, and gave me a big picture feedback and was like, okay, what's the direction you want to go?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then once we had the big picture, she gave me like her entire framework in that consultation call.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was floored.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: You were like, bam, here's what it looks like.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my whole framework.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I was surprised at the amount of value you were willing to provide on the initial call.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: I had talked to some other coaches and they're like very, very cagey, you know, very like, here's a sample of what we're doing.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: You were like, no, here's everything.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is what we do.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I'm about.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my values.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I was just floored.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how I wanted to approach my life.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I want, but it took me a while to be like, okay, can I actually do this?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: But after deliberation and thought and ignoring what some advice and taking other advice, here I am.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of those like trending TikToks or whatever.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can I do it?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Can I do it?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: I did it.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: I did it.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I told I told you this already, but I now it feels like such a dream to be here, not visiting, but living here and talking on the podcast that I was listening to the same, you know.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Full circle.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Full circle.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: A full circle moment of you like binge listening.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was really cute when we got on the call.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I am a fan.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: You literally said that I'm a fan of the podcast.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, that's great, but I'm here to serve you.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you need support in?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: I gave you the whole meal of what you can do and look at you.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we like right before we hit record, we just talked about how Ava found her dream apartment, like by her new job.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Congrats.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Crazy story.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, if you're interested in working with me, feel free to schedule a complimentary call.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: You can go to ElaineLew.com forward slash call.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: And just like Ava says, I like really take the curtain off and just show you everything that's possible for you.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, why do you share everything if it's like not paid?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, because to be honest, I'll just be fully transparent on this episode.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: I show everything in all my steps, but the reality is, is like people need support and accountability.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I provided my coaching.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just a strategy, but also the support and accountability and being able to hold space when you feel like you're having a shit day.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Also, like Elaine will push you.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: She will push you and do something.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Aggressively.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Not aggressively.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not aggressively.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, in in the way that you need to be.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like my it was really funny.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: My therapist was like, you need to be doing this instead.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, I don't know.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then I came to career coaching, and you were like, you need to be doing this.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: So like like Elaine, she'll hold you accountable in a way that I think is really unique because it's about alignment with what you want.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's about the kind of gross that makes you uncomfortable that that needs to happen.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that you can't get, you know, from a strategy.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that comes with, you know, being a client.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Ava.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we have to end our episode just because Ava and I have a coaching session right after this.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we're not gonna hit record for that, for you all of you, okay?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: That is only for our ears.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: But if you want to be on the other seat, feel free to like schedule a call with me at ElaineLoo.com forward slash call.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Ava, thank you so much.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Congrats on having this full circle moment on being in the podcast.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Elaine.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: I am so grateful for you.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you have your podcast out, let me know so I could promote it.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like your own podcast, not this episode, but your own.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: That was aggressive pushing, apparently.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kidding.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kidding.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Bye, legacy leaders.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now you know how to change careers.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't share it in this episode, but I'll share it with you right now.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I actually went through a similar situation.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was working in politics for years, and I realized, oh my God, I worked so hard to get at a place where I had so much responsibility, was well known, and I'm just not happy.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I did the process that Ava described to you doing those informational interviews, looking at job descriptions that matched and then was able to cater and then through my informational interviews, found my dream job.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I did have a dream job before I started my business.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have one of those, I hated my job when I started my own business.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: I had my dream job working at Pasanye City College as a fundraiser.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Shout out to Bobby Abram, the best boss I've ever had in my life.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's how she's my best boss.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, like I'm my best owner.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Get what I mean?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it was through that process that I've been able to teach my own clients on how to find a job that is aligned to you.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: So if you feel called to, you could actually follow Ava on LinkedIn.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've added her LinkedIn here in the show notes.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: And if you found this episode helpful, here are four things you can do if you feel called to do them.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: One, share this with a friend, you know, the friend who's been constantly complaining about work, and send them a personal message on how this episode can help them find a job that is aligned to them.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Two, don't forget to hit that follow button.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: When you hit that follow and subscribe button, it lets the interwebs do their magic and let other women of color and allies know more about this incredible free resource.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Third, if you feel called to, leave a five-star rating and review for the Color Your Dreams podcast so more women of color and allies can create a sustainable and aligned life outside of their work.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: See, I created this podcast as a free resource because contribution is one of my top values.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: And fourth, if you would like to see how to work with me and get so much value, just like Ava did on that first complimentary call, then schedule a call with me to see if it's a good fit.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: My intention is to best serve you, give you at least three action items.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: And here's a simple stuff you have to do.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to go to elanelu.com forward slash call.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's E-L A-I-N-E-L-O-U.com forward slash call C A L L.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll get a complimentary legacy business and career review call with me.