Latest / Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers / #94 The Lord's Prayer-Daily Bread

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#94 The Lord's Prayer-Daily Bread · Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers

• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friends, the Deep Grace Diving podcast
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you hang in there with me for just a couple moments.
• 0:21
  I got some kind of heavy stuff when we start today just to set
• 0:26
  up our look at the
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Lord's Prayer,
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: give us this day our daily bread.
• 0:31
  Every 10 seconds,
• 0:33
  a child dies from hunger-related diseases somewhere in the
• 0:36
  world.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Every 10 seconds.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: In the United States of America, 47.9 million families die.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: live with food insecurity,
• 0:48
  meaning they're not quite sure where their next meal is going
• 0:50
  to come from.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: we're talking about the richest nation on the planet,
• 0:54
  and 47.9 million families don't know if they're going to be
• 0:58
  able to eat tomorrow.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: 7.3 million children in our country live in food-insecure homes.
• 1:09
  Right now,
• 1:09
  this just came out,
• 1:10
  81 million Americans,
• 1:11
  81 million Americans,
• 1:16
  are skipping at least one meal a day or other necessities just
• 1:21
  to afford health care.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now, that's the United States of America.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we pray that prayer,
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: give us this day our daily bread,
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: this means something to people.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is important to people.
• 1:39
  And this is a really interesting shift in the prayer where we
• 1:42
  have been focused on
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: God and God's will for us.
• 1:44
  And now we start moving into some things that Jesus invites us
• 1:48
  to talk about.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that has to do with our daily need for bread.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm here with Terry Summers.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here with John Burgess.
• 1:57
  And just to lighten the mood for a moment,
• 2:01
  John,
• 2:01
  your absolute favorite bread.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: Sourdough.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: Sourdough.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sourdough, Terry?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, real sourdough.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: Not like pretend white bread that says sourdough.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of makes your little places back here like...
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: ache.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: And for those that can't see her,
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: the places back here on her cheeks,
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: just to make sure that more,
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: more than the jaws,
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: more than the jaws.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Carrie, how about you?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Actually,
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: it would be sourdough,
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: but the really,
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: the very first one that came to mind,
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: but it has to be toasted is Ezekiel four,
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: nine bread.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever had it?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: I, um, uh,
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love bread.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't eat a lot of it just because it's,
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: it can,
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: put a lot of weight on if you're not careful,
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: but I buy,
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: and they're not a sponsor.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just,
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: so,
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: the,
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: the six of you listening,
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: the six of you listening,
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: this is going to really build their business.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's a thing called Brotbox, B-R-O-T, Brotbox.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And they only sell German bread.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now, German bread is very different from U.S.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: bread.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: U.S.
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  SPEAKER_01: bread, for the most part, is just filler stuff, right?
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  SPEAKER_01: But this German bread is super packed with really good, healthy stuff.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, good fiber, lots of protein.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I get it and I freeze it.
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  SPEAKER_01: And John's been to Germany.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: German bread.
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  SPEAKER_01: There are a few places in the world that have bread better.
• 3:36
  than Germany brown breads and oh it rolls potato rolls my my
• 3:41
  goodness bread where
• 3:42
  do you get it Tim Broatbox I think it's called Broatbox.com
• 3:47
  okay Broatbox.com for
• 3:49
  those of you scoring along at home Pastor Tim likes Broatbox
• 3:53
  bread and watches
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  Britbox TV that's right that's right yeah I eat German bread
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  and then nourish my
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  SPEAKER_01: soul on British murder
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and say that three times.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  And the beauty,
• 4:06
  of course,
• 4:06
  is that we're talking about being hungry today.
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  And part of the reason why I asked about bread is in many
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  places around the world,
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  SPEAKER_01: bread is the staple for people.
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  SPEAKER_01: Their meals happen around bread.
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  SPEAKER_01: Or sometimes when we say, hey, let's break bread together.
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  it's a metaphor for having a meal together and understanding
• 4:30
  that at the very
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: essence of the meal is bread and how important that is.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're going to talk today about the Lord's prayer.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Terry, do you have the Lord's prayer up by the way?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you can read for us.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you read for us just so people get caught up.
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  SPEAKER_01: Let's read the first part of the Lord's prayer,
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  SPEAKER_01: the parts that we've been through,
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  SPEAKER_01: wherever you want to start and take us down to daily bread.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  How about from verse nine,
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  Matthew six,
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  verse nine,
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  and then through it'll take us through 11.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Pray like this.
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  SPEAKER_00: Our father in heaven, may your name be kept holy.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: May your kingdom come soon.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: May your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
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  SPEAKER_00: Give us today.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: the food we need.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to,
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: of course,
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: chat mainly about that phrase,
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: but it's interesting,
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  SPEAKER_01: isn't it,
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: that the phrase,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: may your will be done,
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: your kingdom come,
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
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  SPEAKER_01: And the next thing that he says is,
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: give us this day our daily bread,
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: as if to suggest that God's will for us is that we eat.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that we're cared for,
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: that our needs are met,
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  SPEAKER_01: that God's kingdom coming is when people are able to eat and flourish.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not the world that Jesus lived in.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's obviously not the world we live in.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just gave you statistics.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to come back to this.
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  But the fact of the matter is the world produces enough food
• 6:13
  for everybody on the
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: planet to eat a healthy diet.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 6:18
  But there are systems and there are processes and there are
• 6:22
  political powers that
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: keep that from happening.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so that's all indicated in that prayer, believe it or not.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Give us this day our daily bread.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot to tease out.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So when you guys first hear it, we'll start with you, Terry.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Give us this day our daily bread.
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  SPEAKER_01: What for you comes to mind?
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  When you're praying that prayer,
• 6:40
  give us this day our daily bread or give me my daily bread.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: What are you thinking about?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  Probably since a child just meeting my needs in terms of hunger
• 6:56
  or nutrition every day.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, John, how about you?
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  SPEAKER_00: Basic.
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  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
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  SPEAKER_00: I just meant literal and basic.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: I continue to be struck.
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  SPEAKER_03: And I said this on the last podcast,
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  SPEAKER_03: I think,
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  SPEAKER_03: but I continue to be struck by how the prayer is about us,
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: like a community and not so much give me my daily bread.
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  SPEAKER_03: So that's a reminder there.
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  SPEAKER_03: But I also think,
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 7:28
  a little bit about what we're kind of working on or studying or
• 7:32
  enjoying around the
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  SPEAKER_03: Burgess House right now is,
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: just today's today's a gift.
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  And we're asked to celebrate and be glad in the fact that we
• 7:41
  have another day.
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  SPEAKER_03: And so I see this, like I, there's this temporal element to it.
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  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, here's, here's my needs for today.
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  SPEAKER_03: Please fulfill these needs.
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  SPEAKER_03: Here's our needs for today.
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  SPEAKER_03: Please fulfill our needs for today.
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  And not so much being concerned about tomorrow's needs and
• 8:00
  tomorrow's worries and
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  SPEAKER_03: those sorts of things.
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  SPEAKER_03: So.
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  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: So when you think about the context of Jesus offering this prayer,
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  SPEAKER_01: obviously their world is far different than our world.
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  SPEAKER_01: In the time of Jesus, they are under Roman occupation.
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  They are being taxed to support the Roman Empire,
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  which makes less money for the people.
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  And so for them,
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  when they're asking that their daily needs be met,
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  to use Terry's thought,
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  SPEAKER_01: what needs means for them is very different than what it means for us.
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  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, because we have so many things that we think we need now.
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  SPEAKER_01: Uh, my micro, if my microwave doesn't work, how am I supposed to eat?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  Uh,
• 8:47
  if,
• 8:47
  if I can't,
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  uh,
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  if my car tire explodes,
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  you know,
• 8:54
  then how do I get to work?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then this happens and that happens.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my, uh,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: PS90, is that a game system or is that the exercise?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Which is it?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: Either way, if it breaks, what are you going to do?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So there are so many things.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: How many of us have lost our internet and panicked, right?
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  So there are so many things that we have that have become
• 9:27
  important to life.
• 9:29
  That sometimes we need the reminder to step back and be
• 9:34
  grateful for a God who
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: cares about our daily needs.
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  SPEAKER_01: And what is it that I really need in life?
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  And how do I slow down long enough to be appreciative of how
• 9:48
  God provides my needs?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then to say,
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: wow,
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  SPEAKER_01: not only do I have bread to eat today or food to eat today,
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: but I do have internet.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: I do have ear pods so I can listen to this podcast.
• 10:03
  I do have a thing in my car so that I can cool my car when it
• 10:09
  gets to be 110
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: degrees here in Phoenix,
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Arizona.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of things that we have we can be grateful for,
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  but sometimes we get so caught up in all of this stuff that the
• 10:19
  world tells us that
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: we have to have
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: that we lose sight of the simplicity of this prayer,
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: which is being grateful for a God who provides for our daily needs.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So here's the context.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: The people of Israel were slaves in Egypt.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, now they're under Roman occupation.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: So they remember that time when they're out in the wilderness.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they had nothing.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And every day, they had to depend on God to provide manna.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And they were told, they were given strict instructions.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: When you go out and collect your manna, don't take more than you need.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Just take what you need.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Don't take some for tomorrow.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Just take it for today.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because I want you to trust me.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: God's saying, I want you to trust me.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a God who provides.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so, of course, what did the people of Israel do?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they go out and they collect, you know, two, three days worth.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And after midnight, the stuff that they were hoarding,
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: It turned rancid, it rotted, it worms in it, whatever.
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  And so they learned to be dependent on God for their daily
• 11:32
  needs,
• 11:33
  and God always provided.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Every day God provided bread for them.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so when Jesus prays that phrase,
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: give us this day our daily bread,
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: they're thinking about that.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's a part of their history.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: That this God who is their father,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: this God who loves them,
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: who has a good will for them,
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: is a God who provides for them.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that would be a part of their mindset.
• 12:01
  These are also people,
• 12:02
  many of whom,
• 12:04
  in Jesus' day,
• 12:06
  really did live from day to day.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you are a tradesperson,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: a tradesman,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: let's say tradesman,
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: and you don't get out in the fields that day to help take in the grain,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: and you don't get paid for that day,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: you won't eat the next day.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't sell your baskets that day, you're not eating the next day.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so they really,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: many of them in Jesus' audience,
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: were living from day to day,
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: from paycheck to paycheck,
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: literally.
• 12:38
  And that's why Jesus focuses on daily bread and trusting God
• 12:42
  for daily bread.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so many people in our country and in our world live that way.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: They don't, they'll go to bed tonight.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: They won't know, will we have food or not?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: tomorrow.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And for a lot of us listening,
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to say probably most of us listening to this,
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: that's hard for us to even imagine.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because we, you know, I can do an Uber.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think part, so Tim, I think like the
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: the harsh and the not so harsh,
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: like the harsh way to say it,
• 13:20
  I think just for most people listening to the podcast is this
• 13:24
  sort of this first
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: world problems thing,
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like it did.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I, not only do I get,
• 13:33
  do I have access to food,
• 13:34
  but it can be German food delivered by a specialty baker.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 13:39
  And sometimes it gets here and I'm like,
• 13:41
  hey,
• 13:41
  this took so long getting here.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: This is not the freshest loaf I've ever had.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I think a harsh way to look at that is like first world problems.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I think maybe a less harsh way is to say,
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: For most of us in our daily striving,
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: being determined,
• 13:57
  we lose sight of the beauty of the things that have been
• 14:01
  provided while we are
• 14:02
  chasing those things in our mind and hearts that seem to be
• 14:06
  super serious and are
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: serious.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying they're not.
• 14:11
  And probably some people listening to the numbers you gave were
• 14:14
  very sobering.
• 14:15
  I would guess that some people listening to this podcast are in
• 14:18
  those numbers for sure.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it's sort of a reminder that,
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: he didn't say like,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: give us all the bread that we want.
• 14:31
  He said like,
• 14:32
  you know,
• 14:32
  give us our daily,
• 14:34
  the daily blessings that we need.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: And there's some natural sort of tension there, I think.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:40
  I think this is a,
• 14:41
  this is a phrase in the prayer that has several layers to it.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: The first layer is,
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: God is inviting us to trust.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to trust me to provide for you.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a second level of gratitude,
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: of being grateful for what we have,
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: especially in a place like the United States of America,
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: where the whole economy is based on needing more.
• 15:18
  Because if we're not buying the next thing,
• 15:20
  the economy is going to implode.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I remember,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: and this isn't positive or negative,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: but when 9-11 hit all those years ago,
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: President George W.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Bush got up and said,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: keep spending money.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because the economy will implode if we don't buy things we don't need.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: If we all just bought what we need, the economy would implode.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: in the United States of America.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we live in a culture,
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: as do some others,
• 15:52
  but we live in a culture where this prayer is a little bit hard
• 15:57
  for us to get our
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: brains around because we pretty much are taken care of every day.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the statistics tell us that's not true for everyone, right?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I think part of what Jesus is inviting us to do is not only to trust,
• 16:11
  which can be a little tougher sometimes to trust when you
• 16:13
  already have everything
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: you need.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: and then some, to trust, to be grateful.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's another layer,
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: to be thankful for what we have,
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: which can be an antidote to always needing more.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's a third level we'll get to in a moment,
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: but let's kind of hang there at those first two levels.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was just saying, as I was talking, I was thinking about how easy it is.
• 16:41
  And just before we went on to record today,
• 16:44
  I was on Amazon buying something.
• 16:47
  And man,
• 16:47
  if I can't get it between four and six o'clock tonight,
• 16:50
  what is wrong with Amazon?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: What's the matter?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: What do you pay for?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: Amazon Prime membership.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: I have Prime and they can't get it to me until tomorrow.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I sort of have to check myself.
• 17:06
  And first of all,
• 17:08
  to be more grateful that I have the financial ability to go on
• 17:13
  Amazon.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: And if I need something,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: I can get it, right?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Not everybody can do that.
• 17:21
  Not everybody can get on Amazon and say,
• 17:23
  well,
• 17:23
  I need a new pair of underwear.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: They have to really think it through.
• 17:30
  So to be grateful,
• 17:33
  but more than that,
• 17:35
  where do we end up putting our trust in our faith?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is my faith in the economy?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is my faith in...
• 17:45
  spending is it in is my joy does my joy come from always having
• 17:50
  to have more stuff
• 17:53
  or is my joy found in the fact that I'm loved I'm a loved child
• 17:56
  of God and that's
• 18:01
  not always easy in the United States of America where there's
• 18:07
  so much pressure to
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: have more and keep on buying yeah
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one of the layers.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think that when Jesus says,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: give us this day our daily bread,
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: the people of Israel are thinking about their history.
• 18:27
  They're thinking about that time when God provided daily bread
• 18:31
  for them through manna.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: I also wonder if they couldn't help but think about Psalm 23.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: He makes me lie down in green pastures.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: He leads me beside quiet waters.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: He restores my soul.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: He guides me in paths of righteousness for his namesake.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I will fear no evil for you are with me.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Your rod and your staff, they comfort me.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: You anoint my head with oil.
• 19:00
  Surely goodness and joy will follow me all the days of my life
• 19:02
  and I will dwell in
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: the house of the Lord forever.
• 19:05
  And how this God who we are calling father is also our shepherd
• 19:11
  who will care for us.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 19:15
  To live in that promise,
• 19:20
  especially when you have so little,
• 19:24
  can also be challenging.
• 19:27
  So where it can be challenging for us who have a lot and have
• 19:30
  everything at our
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: access,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: it can be hard to trust.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: It can also be hard to trust when you have nothing.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because really, where is it going to come from the next day?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:43
  And so this is a really,
• 19:46
  it seems simple,
• 19:47
  give us this day our daily bread.
• 19:50
  But there's profound theological and emotional issues tied
• 19:53
  around that simple little phrase.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: So let's play this out a little bit.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: You fully trust God.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: God, give me my daily bread.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Give us our daily bread.
• 20:08
  And you're one of those families,
• 20:10
  lives in the United States of America,
• 20:11
  and is food insecure.
• 20:14
  And of course,
• 20:16
  we know that the government just cut benefits at the beginning
• 20:19
  of 2025.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's made it even more difficult for people.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you wake up the next day, God, where's this food going to come from?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: And the question is, what if...
• 20:36
  god doesn't provide that food the next day what about that
• 20:42
  child every 10 seconds
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: who is dying from hunger it really raises tough questions don't you think
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: Well, those are the toughest, really.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I keep thinking while you're talking,
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like,
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just going to say,
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: if you don't know where your next meal is coming from,
• 21:02
  just walk over to the closest church and tell them they sent
• 21:05
  you from the Deep
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: Grace Diving podcast and you need some help.
• 21:10
  But,
• 21:10
  you know,
• 21:11
  I think it's a knee-jerk reaction to try to solve and help a
• 21:16
  massive problem.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I think the third level is really important.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So the first level is God is inviting us to trust God.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And God has shown over and over again that God can be trusted.
• 21:31
  I think a second level here of this prayer is to be grateful
• 21:35
  for what we have.
• 21:39
  And sometimes that gratitude may mean for some of us to maybe
• 21:46
  peel away some of the
• 21:47
  things that we don't really need so that we can be grateful for
• 21:49
  what really matters
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: in life and not be distracted.
• 21:54
  But I think the third level is Jesus may be saying to some of
• 21:59
  us when we pray this
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: prayer,
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: how are you going to be the answer to the prayer?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's the story that comes later on,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: and this is in all four Gospels,
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: and there aren't many stories that are in all four Gospels.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: One of them is this one, of course, the death and resurrection of Jesus.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's the feeding of the 5,000, actually 15,000.
• 22:23
  because it was just 5,000 men,
• 22:24
  so you figure there were women and children there.
• 22:27
  And the disciples say to Jesus,
• 22:29
  you know,
• 22:29
  you've been,
• 22:29
  hey,
• 22:30
  Jesus,
• 22:31
  you've been great.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: The sermons have been great, but it's a little late now in the day.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: People need to go.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Probably hungry.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so what does Jesus say to the disciples?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus says, you feed them.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: You feed them.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: You feed them.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't say, hey, just sit back and watch me do this.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: He said, you feed them.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: You be the answer to their problem.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: obviously,
• 23:02
  Jesus supercharged their answer to the problem by taking the
• 23:06
  food that they found
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: and then mass producing it,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: so to speak.
• 23:13
  But I think the third layer to this is for those of us who are
• 23:16
  blessed and
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: privileged with more than we need,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think when we say,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: give us this day our daily bread,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think Jesus is trying to also get our attention and say,
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: how are you going to feed them?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: How are you going to be the answer to that problem?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And what are ways that those of you who are already over-blessed,
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: for lack of a better word,
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: how can you help?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because again,
• 23:42
  if it is true that we produce enough food for everybody to eat
• 23:45
  a healthy diet every
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: single day,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why is that not happening, and what can we do about it?
• 23:57
  Yeah.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there are a number of things I think that we can do about it.
• 24:06
  One of the obvious ones is,
• 24:07
  for those of us who are maybe part of congregations,
• 24:10
  to
• 24:12
  If we don't already have a way to provide food for those who
• 24:16
  are maybe less
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: fortunate,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: just talk to the staff,
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: talk to the pastor and say,
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: what can we do either to create a food bank,
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: support a local food bank,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: collect food from time to time?
• 24:31
  How can we help with the food insecurity around us and get the
• 24:35
  food that people need it?
• 24:38
  Jan and I give to a local organization here that does
• 24:42
  international work to feed hungry people.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: That may be a way.
• 24:49
  I think that there may be some of us who become so passionate
• 24:53
  about it that we find
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: those organizations that become advocates,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: food advocates and hunger advocates who not only feed people,
• 25:02
  but are looking at the political systems and the power issues
• 25:07
  that keep food from
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: being distributed in ways that are fair and have integrity for everybody.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And those challenges, those systems are myriad and difficult to overcome.
• 25:21
  It takes a lot of really smart people to do it,
• 25:25
  but there are people out there doing that.
• 25:27
  There are people out there fighting the systems and the
• 25:30
  corruption,
• 25:30
  whatever it might be,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: that keeps people from getting their daily bread.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:37
  And it may be that some of you listening would say,
• 25:39
  I got to look that up.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: How can I be a part of that?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: And Tim,
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: and sorry,
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: Terry,
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think I keep jumping in in front of you,
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: but,
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: and so part of the,
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: part of the lesson here,
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: Tim,
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: also in the feeding of the 15,000 is that,
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: is Jesus says you feed them,
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: but then Jesus provides the assistance for them to fulfill that thing.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: He doesn't send them on their own, right?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I would just say to those folks listening,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: if you've been thinking,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: I would like to help out.
• 26:09
  know that jesus is not calling you to do it on your own he's
• 26:11
  going to walk with you
• 26:12
  and the second thing i would say is if you're waiting for a
• 26:15
  sign let this podcast
• 26:17
  be your sign let this be this is it this is your official sign
• 26:21
  that uh you know dip
• 26:22
  a toe in and then jump in in whatever area maybe it's policy
• 26:27
  maybe it's just
• 26:28
  walking uh food to a couple neighbors i mean anywhere in there
• 26:33
  is all help it's all
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: good yeah
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it all is good.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead, Terry.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, don't you.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm going to just speak for myself.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that just listening,
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very sensitive,
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm sure many people are,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: to how can I make a difference?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: And this is so grand.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking of the disciples thinking, what?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: I have access.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's a little kid over there.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: You want me to go ask for his lunch?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a couple of fish and some bread.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: But the need, Jesus, is so much bigger.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great point.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: For me, that makes me, it's like deer in a headlight moment.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: It freezes me.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like I don't have a way to make a dent.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the reminder in the story is that those couple of fish offered,
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus did,
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: like you just got done saying,
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: he bridged the gap.
• 27:49
  and that part they,
• 27:50
  they didn't have to worry about,
• 27:52
  you know what I mean?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like the disciples did that wasn't on them.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I know,
• 27:57
  I know we're not right here walking with Jesus and in a meadow
• 28:03
  where everyone has
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: sat down for a minute and,
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: but it's still,
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: is it not the very same?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm being impacted by the story right now.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like John,
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: when you said,
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: walk something over to some neighbors,
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of got a lump in my throat.
• 28:20
  Like that is as far as I can even see meeting a need,
• 28:25
  you know,
• 28:26
  like,
• 28:26
  yeah.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: first of all,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Tara,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think your insight is spot on when we,
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: when you talk about an issue like hunger,
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: it's easy to just throw up your hands and say,
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even make, not only a dent, I can't even get the D in dent done.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: But that's exactly what was happening with those disciples.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's 12 of them.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: They have no food in Jesus.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to feed 12,000, 15,000 people right now.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: They had to have been overwhelmed.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus' point, I think, in the story is you don't do this alone.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: And when we do it together, that's why it's back to John's point.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't a me prayer.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is an us prayer.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: When we do it together, the impact begins to snowball and grow.
• 29:19
  And,
• 29:19
  you know,
• 29:20
  Jesus said in one of the gospels,
• 29:21
  you will do greater works than I do.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think what he meant was more spectacular.
• 29:26
  I think what he meant was you're going to be able to accomplish
• 29:29
  a whole lot more
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: than I can because there's going to be a lot more of you.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: He's in one place at one time,
• 29:36
  and then suddenly there are millions and millions of Christians
• 29:39
  around the world
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: who,
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: if we all got our act together and said no more hunger,
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: could change the world.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's absolutely true.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And as grandiose as that is,
• 29:55
  the most important thing to do would be to feed that one hungry
• 29:57
  kid or that hungry
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: neighbor or that person down the street in that moment.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that this,
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: when Jesus says,
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: give us this day our daily bread,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: it's one of those phrases that you're just sort of saying it's gone,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's out there.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: We hardly think about it at all because bread isn't,
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: in our culture,
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: isn't the deal the way it is in many others.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people still like their bread, but it's not...
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: When we say we don't have bread in the house,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: that's fine,
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: but we still have hamburgers and we still have bacon or whatever.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Bread isn't the staple it used to be.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: So when we pray this prayer and we sort of pause and we think about it,
• 30:51
  Jesus is inviting us to recognize that this father is a father
• 30:55
  who wants to feed us
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: and care for us like a shepherd.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: This father does feed us and care for us.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: And let's take some time to be grateful for that and appreciate.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then there are a lot of us's who aren't eating today.
• 31:11
  And how can we be an answer to that prayer to give someone
• 31:14
  their daily bread who
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: may not receive it?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so Tim,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: we're kind of,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: as we're walking through the prayer,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: I,
• 31:23
  what I think I hear us all saying is you hit that sentence and
• 31:27
  maybe you don't
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: unpack all of that every time you're praying this prayer,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: but maybe each time it's a little something now,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: maybe this time I'm thinking about others,
• 31:35
  or maybe this next time I'm thinking about what I can be
• 31:38
  grateful for in sort of
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: Western civilization and,
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: and kind of draw down my needs versus wants.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then maybe next time it's a little bit more about, Hey, what, what,
• 31:48
  what can I do just to focus on today's needs and not so much
• 31:51
  tomorrow's worries?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then, and let, just kind of let's see what God does in that moment.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, if it were that easy, John, right?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: I've tried.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:09
  I was just going to give you a quote from Martin Luther that
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  sort of speaks to the
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  SPEAKER_01: second point about gratefulness.
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  He says,
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  God gives daily bread without our prayer,
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  even to all evil people.
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  But we ask in this prayer that God cause us to recognize what
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  our daily bread is
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  SPEAKER_01: and to receive it with thanksgiving.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so I think part of his point is,
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  SPEAKER_01: and we've been saying this,
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  SPEAKER_01: when we are saying,
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  SPEAKER_01: God,
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  SPEAKER_01: give us this day our daily bread,
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  SPEAKER_01: we sort of start to look for it.
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  SPEAKER_01: Well, what is my daily bread?
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  SPEAKER_01: What are those things God is providing for me today?
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  SPEAKER_01: And how can I be grateful for that?
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  And then how can I share it with other people so they too can
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  experience the
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  SPEAKER_01: blessing of their father?
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  SPEAKER_01: All right.
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  So next week,
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  we're going to dive into the question,
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  if I don't forgive someone,
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  SPEAKER_01: Does that mean God won't forgive me?
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  SPEAKER_01: That is a John Burgess question, by the way, that he asked me years ago.
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  And then a couple of years after that,
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  and then a few more years after that.
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  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  So I thought I'm going to just do a preemptive here and I'm
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  going to take the
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  SPEAKER_01: question and that'll be our podcast next week.
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  SPEAKER_01: Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.
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  SPEAKER_01: Does that mean?
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  SPEAKER_01: If I don't forgive, God won't forgive me.
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  SPEAKER_01: You got to wait a week to find out.
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  SPEAKER_01: So if I were you, forgive them all in the meantime, just in case.
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  SPEAKER_01: Just in case.
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  SPEAKER_01: But maybe Grace will say something better.
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  SPEAKER_01: All right.
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  SPEAKER_01: Back next week.
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  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, everybody.
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  SPEAKER_01: Bye.