Latest / Bless This Mess: A Southern True Crime Podcast / 147. [Georgia] The Flint River Killer

Transcript

147. [Georgia] The Flint River Killer · Bless This Mess: A Southern True Crime Podcast

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome, bless this mess, and if you're grown podcast,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I don't care. Here what's Tuesday? Stu? All right, we're
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: back this week and we are going to Georgia.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Georgia.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say no, no, anyways, we're gonna get
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: to the point this week because one it's late.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: And two it's not late.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Chitty chatted a little too much last week, I feel like.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: But the problem was is we were doing a case
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: out of New Orleans, and we've been to New Orleans
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: multiple times, so we had some stories.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: So we did have stories.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: If last week was your first week listening. We do
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: chit chat during the podcast, a little bit a meander,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: but not that much. That was an their level of
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: chit chat.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's Kara drinks way too much when we're in
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: New Orleans.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Stu drinks away. I'm not the one that fell asleep
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: on a cooler. Okay, we're not rehashing this all right, So,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: like I said, this week, we're going to Georgia. But
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: let's take Kara some business first. We have our Patreon
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: dot com where you get the episodes twenty four hours
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: earlier in ad free, and then we are also doing
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: shoot the poo with Karen Stew once a week.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I love how you just ran with that name that
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: sounds rhymes with my name. Right after I was like, eh.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: You said it on the first one. I said, oh
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: that's great.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, I know, so sure, bedballing, And you're like, Hey,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: the one that's that rhymes with pooh and Stew. That's
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: the one we're going to Okay.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's what we're gonna know with. Anyways, Well, you
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: can't say shoot the shit with Karen Stew. That doesn't rhyme,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: so you need something similar that rhymes. Anyways, that's one.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: So this week we're going to be Oh, it's not
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: this week.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Last week we talked about Brian Kolberger the relent in
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: this documentary, and then we talked about the Texas serial killer,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: possibly Stew, which also is something I'd like to do
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: a little bit more in depth. I'd like to to
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: run that one down Stew.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to solve it. Yeah.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I don't feel like people are looking as close as
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: they should be with this whole situation, because thirty eight
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: bodies from twenty twenty two to now is like too
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: many to be a coincidence.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: I know, nobody's drinking out of that damn.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Like, I know, can you imagine, just like do people
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: just function in there? They're going there, fish dead bodies everywhere.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: That's like a lot of dead bodies.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't think they were all in there at
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: one time.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: But there had to been at some point.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, but I mean, if all the dead bodies
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: are in there at one time when you're eating.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: One dead body is too much for me to be
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: fishing out of their stew.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Well, fish pea in there and they poop in there, so.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: All right anyways, So yeah, so check that out. That's
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: something we started doing each week where we just kind
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: of talk about random true crime news going on, and
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: then we gibber jabber about our lives. So if you
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: hate it, if you hate that part of the podcast, though, don't, it's.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Not for you, it really is.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: And then we have Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, TikTok. I've been
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: doing really well on I.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Feel like who knew, who knew?
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Anyways, I share a lot of documentaries because I watch
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of or episodes of true crime episodes. There
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: are like recommendations of what you should watch and then
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: we have bias a coffee, which we really appreciate everybody
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: who has taken pity on me and bought me a coffee,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: appreciate you. But I think that's it. Do you have
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: anything else going on?
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Do you want me to talk Why?
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: What are you going to talk about?
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: I got nothing to talk about?
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I know you never have anything to talk about.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: And when I do, you tell me, now, what would it?
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Because it's probably stupid?
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Exactly. You think whatever I got to talk about as stupid.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: So you're like, no, we're not going to do that.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: All right, So that is all. We're gonna go ahead
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: and get to the case. We don't anger people, which
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: is common around here angering people, all right, So let's
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: go ahead and get into our case, because this one's
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: a doozy stew a doozy.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I don't know if they've heard about it. I've never
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: heard of It's been a hot minute for for what
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: for some of our younger listeners.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Not for you, though you're not one of our younger
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Well I was alive. I don't think that they. I
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: don't even think if they are of the age, they
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: would have heard of this. You never heard of it.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: It's crazy.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Well I didn't. I never followed your crime time I
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: changed on it. And when you're not around, I don't
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: watch tree. You're welcome.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: You're welcome for introducing You're welcome world, all right, So
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: let's go ahead and get into our case. Out of Georgia.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: On December twentieth, nineteen seventy seven, two duck hunters were
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: wading through the waters of the Flint River in Georgia,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: which is just south of Atlanta, when they come upon
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: a body worshed up on the bank of the rivers.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Do it was what on the bank?
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Huh?
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: What was it on the bank?
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: You know, there's a portion of the country that says
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: it the same exact way I do. There's an actual
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: song of a country singer worshiping all my worries down
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: the drain. Rain is a good thing, he says it,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: just like I do.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Well, Corn does make my girl a little frisky. Not
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: to night, I mean, whiskey, what I say, Corn makes
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: my girl fresky. I forgot I forgot.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: The okay, still again true? Not to night, all right?
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: So they immediately leave and call police please arrive on
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: the scene to find a very decomposed body of a woman.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: They can tell she's been in the water a long
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: time because the skin has because she has skin slippage,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: which do really fixated on that. It sounds so disgusting. Yes,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: she also had a plastic bag wrapped around her head.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: There was a chain with a cinder block that was
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: used to weight her down. As they further and investigated,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: they realized that she did not die to the plastic
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: bag however, or the drowning. There were actually two gunshot
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: wounds in her head. Now, the gun appeared to be
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: a thirty thirty eight caliber pistol. Now, as they are
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: processing this scene, there's another officer standing up on a
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: bridge kind of just looking out, you know, canvassing the
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: scene and everything like that. And he looks over and
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: he sees a red bag on the other bank of
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: the like the other side, the other bank of the river.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: So they pull the sleeping so it ends up being
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: they go over there and investigate, ends up being a
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: red sleeping bag. They pull that sleeping bag out of
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: the river, unzip it, and to their horror, stew horror,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: they find another body of a woman. Now this body
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: was much more fresh. It had only been in the
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: water a few days and the level of decomposition had
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: not occurred like the other body. There was no skin
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: slippage stew if you will.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: That is disturbing that.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Yes. Upon the initial investigation, they found that she had
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: been shot in the abdomen, the leg, and the head.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: So again the manner of death was not drowning or
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: anything like that.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Gunshot wounds, yes, which is just like these not paying attention.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, they also found that her pants had been cut
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: out around the crotch area, indicating a sexual assault. But
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: due to the fact that the body had been in water,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: little or no evidence would have been able to be
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: obtained from a rape like doing a rape kit and
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: stuff with that, even in modern technology, not let alone
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: back in nineteen.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because the only thing they can do in nineteen
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: seventy seven is type the blood.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they wouldn't Even if they were able to
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: do a rape kick, none of that stuff would have
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: been available to save for future testing. Now it appeared
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: that the same caliber gun had been used in this
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: murder as well. Police are immediately concerned that they are
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: dealing with a serial killer, as two bodies have been
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: found near each other with the same manner of death.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Another aspect of this case that is that there will
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: be actually two sheriff's departments investigating these because the first
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: body was found one bank, yes, on the Clayton County
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: side of the river, and then that second body was
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: found on the other bank, which is the Fayette side
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: of the river. Now they both are still in Georgia,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: but it is two different sheriff's department because you know
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: it's a river of usually rivers separate county counties, Yes,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: things like that. Now, the clay County Sheriff's department is
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: going to have a much more difficult time as their
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: body has been in the water for much much longer.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Now the body on the Fayete side of the river
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: is just a few days old, so they have a
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: lot more options when they're investigating who this body belongs to.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Now, on a side note, I find it interesting and
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: that in nineteen seventy seven they find two bodies in
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: the river and they're concerned about a serial killer, and
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two to twenty twenty five they find
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: thirty eight bodies in a lake and they're like, no,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: they're not, there's no serial killer. It's fine.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Well, ever, they're saying they're trying not to cause a panic,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: but they anyways, I really would like to do a
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: more of a deep dive into that, but we're not
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: going to do it right now. But one of them
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: was definitely classified as yes, one of them. Well, the
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: rest of the country is like this sketchy.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: It's sketchy. It could be a serial killer. There's thirty eight.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Now it's fine, it's fine, it's really just fine.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Just accidents.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: And if that's the case, though, then they should be
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: having some sort of railing or something to prevent drunk
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: people from wandering into the lake. But I don't understand anyways, Okay,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: we're not going to get into it because it's a
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: rabbit hole.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: So it's a tangent.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: If you want to hear more about what we think
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: about it, check out Shoot the Poo with Karen Stick
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: on payte But it is in Texas, though, so we
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: could do I would like to do a deeper dive,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: no pun intent, i'ake. We could actually visit the place
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: because it's not that far from us in Texas. Time
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: for the Yes.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Fayette County Sheriff's Department.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: They start first looking into any missing person cases that
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: they had, and they were quickly able to identify the victim.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Their victim, which is the one that was in the
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: water less time as thirty one year old Lyddy Evans.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Lyddy was a divorced mother of four who was living
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: with her twenty eight year old firefighter boyfriend, a fellow
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: that went by the name of Joe Cleveland.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Which I kiper she's got a younger man.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Joe Cleveland kind of sounds like Joe dirt.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: I thought Joe Cleveland sound like he should be like
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: a football star. Yeah, maybe quarterback or something.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Police are looking for Joe. Nobody can seem to find Joe,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: so they start asking the family and friends if anybody
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: seen Joe or Lyddy. Now, the family says the last
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: time they saw Lyddy and Joe was December seventeenth. They
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: were supposed to be heading out of town to Panama City,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Florida flow Rider.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: You can't even say Florida, Oh my God to say.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: With some friends, Joe is known to hang out with
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: some shady characters. However, friends and family don't believe that
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: he's the type of person that would ever hurt Lyddy.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because right now he's prime suspect because the girlfriend's
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: dead and they can't find him. I mean, I mean,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: who else would do it? But yeah, his friends and
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: family just were not convinced that.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: They feeling that he would do such a thing.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, on the Clayton County side, they were running down
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: dental records to try to determine who the woman was
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: in the river that had the skin slippage.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Is that going to be our new drinking game?
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: No, But I just did it for you because he
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: bothered you so much the first couple of times you
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: heard it.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: It still it's going to bother him the next ten
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: times I hear it.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, So they were able to get a match to
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: forty five year old Betty Joe Efflyn. Now Betty Joe
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: was originally from Fort Worth, Texas, but she became a
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: truck driver, which was pretty advanced. I feel like that
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: she's like really breaking some glass ceilings for the ladies
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: back in the seventies, you know. And she ended up
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: and down and ended up down in Georgia that summer. Well,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Betty Joe, now she was a good time girls do.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: She loved to drink she loved men, She loved a party,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: my kind of girl. Yep. Loved to hang out at
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: the bars. Oh yeah, yep, probably those hole in the
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: wall bars like you like. She also loved to do drugs.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: So during her time down in Georgia, she met a
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: man named Fred Wyatt. Now Fred was also a truck driver,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: but while he was transporting legal loads, he also was
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: transporting illegal loads.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Which involved drugs.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, drugs, specifically marijuana. Now, Betty Joe's daughter did meet Fred,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: and she did immediately did not like him.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Now, Betty Joe's daughter was a grown woman, So she was.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: A child, No, she was grown, yes, yeah, so she
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: was probably in her twenties that she's meeting him. Yeah,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Betty Joe didn't just abandon her seven year old back
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: in Texas to Georgia. She was, she had a grown daughter.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: But the daughter did come down she met Fred. She
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: was just not feel feeling Fred at all. She got
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: some bad vibes off vibes off ful Fred, but which
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: she was correct though, because he's, you know, illegally transporting
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: drugs and things like that. And well, yes, so she
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: felt that he was just soulless, Like she said, she
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: looked into his eyes and they just were dark and soulless,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: and immediately did not like him. They also started or
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: She also started noticing bruising on her mother's arms, and
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: she did confront her about them, and Betty Joe would
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: always just make excuses, but the daughter did believe that
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Fred was abusing her. Now, despite these issues and warnings
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: from her family, Betty Joe continued the relationship and ended
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: up marrying Fred after just a couple months of knowing him.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Courting.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, courting, if that's what you want to call me
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: for doing. Courting, yes, so she she quickly ran into
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: a marriage with Fred despite these huge red flags. Thought, yes, Stuart,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: you say that every time.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Well you keep saying red flax.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I know, but that's a common.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: For I thought you were setting me up.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, red flags just looked like flags when you
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: got your rose colored glasses on. You want me to
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: say that every time too, Okay.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Police find out that Betty had been reporting missing by
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: her daughter, and the weeks leading up to finding the
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: body Betty's Betty Joe's daughter believed that Fred was most
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: likely the suspect that had something to do with her disappearance.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: So police go looking for old Fred, but they knock
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: on the door nobody's home. So now they have two
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: bodies of women, two missing spouses. Both spouses had Sketchy
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: passed and were connected to the drug trade. They keep
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: looking for Fred, and they quickly find out that Old
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Fred had been killed in a car accident. His car
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: had collided with the train. They pulled a file for
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: the train accident, and you can see in the photos
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: he slumped over the front seats like he's laying with
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: his body toward the passengers.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Show imagine, imagine a photo. Imagine so if you get
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: if you're in a car and you get killed, your
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: feet are probably going to be down near the gas
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: pedals and things like that. Imagine just a body basically
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: laid over with their head in the passenger seat, their
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: legs hanging out of the vehicle, both legs on the
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: driver's hide on the driver's side, and the door open
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: like this was clearly not this, Clearly something else was
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: going on.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he hit the train. The train didn't hit him,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: according to the photos and the and the accident.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, he ran into the side of the train.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: He ran into the side of the train. He wasn't
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: on the track.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so his body would it wouldn't like necessarily even then,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't necessarily have died unless.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: It was, you know, the train actually hits you.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the train, because you could hit the front and
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: still be alive. You could still survive that.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Now, with all these murders around Fred, they decided to
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: exhumee the body and re examine his injuries. They quickly
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: realized that Fred did not actually die from the car wreck,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: but that he had two twenty two caliber bullets in
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: the back of his head. His death was reclassified from
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: whatever it was to a homicide.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: And by whatever it was, he means it was classified
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: as an accident originally, but now it's a homicide.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know what accidental car accident.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: No, it's called an accident. Store they just labeled an accident,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: all right.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know that's what they labeled this part of Georgia.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Well, my question is is it was he was? It
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: was clearly like not. The scene did not portray that,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: So I'm good. I've kind of felt like after we
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: go through this, people may may agree. I felt like
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: that it was somebody behind the scene was a part
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: of this, you think, Yes.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: I think somebody was like, man, my chif's about the end.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: I gotta get high. I don't far to do that.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Where's the coroner? Where did somebody call them? Yeah? We
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: called him. He was sleeping, he was at his girlfriend's house.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Bl blah blah blah, he's passed off. He's coming in.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, all right, die in the train accident.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: I gotta go.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, maybe I could see that happening too, all right. See,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: they start looking into who could possibly benefit from Fred's death.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: He was involved with drugs and had some criminal activity
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: in the past, but he also had a thirteen thousand
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: dollars life insurance policy.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Big money yep back then.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Sure, Now the policy did not go to Betty Joe,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: and in his death it would actually go to a
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: woman named Mary Marie, not Mary Marie Jackson Wyatt now
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Marie Jackson. She was not actually his wife. It was
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: an old girlfriend, but she would call herself his wife,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: and she even took on his last name. That's why
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: she had the same last name as him. Now. She
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: lived with Fred for four years, but then he met
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Betty Joe and left Marie and he met her while
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: he was living with Old Marie in a trailer. He
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: met Betty Joe, and then Marie was wondering.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: What it was a double one.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Marie was kind of wondering where he'd been for the
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: last few like week or two. He just wasn't coming home,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: and come to find out, he'd you know, started a
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: whole new life with old Betty Joe over their good
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: time Betty Joe. So, please are wondering if Marie was
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: the one who killed who would kill Betty Joe and Fred,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: because they're both dead at this point, and she was
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the one who would benefit financially, and she's obviously actually
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: you know, angry at the two of them, but she insisted,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: so they go talk to her. She insists that she
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: did not have anything to do with the murders and
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: that Fred was just a shady person and there was
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: lots of people that would want Fred dead, and the
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: police were like, yeah, you're.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Probably probably right. Yeah, he's a sketchy sound betch Yeah.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: She said, if they want any answers to what's going on,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: the best person to talk to would be Carl Patten,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: which was Fred's nephew and his enforcer. If someone owed
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: him money in this drug trade. So he's really really
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: entrenched in this lifestyle with Fred and knows all the
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: inner workings and happenings of his drug empire.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, on the Fayette side of the river, the police
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: are still looking for Joe Cleveland. Since Clayton and Fayett
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: were sharing information and working together, they had mentioned the
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: name Carl.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Pat Clayton mentioned the name Carl.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Pet Clayton mentioned the name. They're the ones that got that.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, got that information from Marie. So they're telling the
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Fayette side, Hey, we got this guy named Carl Patten.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: And this sends up a red flag for the Fayette
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, because when they're speaking to family and friends about
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Lyddy and jose vacation, they were told that they were
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: going to go on vacation with Carl and Norma Patten
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: as the people there, they're they're associates. Yep, this connection
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: just seems to be too suspicious to be a coincidence.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, I mean, it's a small town, but it ain't
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: that small. No, There's that's just too weird. So the
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Fayette County Sheriff's Department, they go to speak to Carl
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Patten and his wife Norma. Well, they bring up Fred
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: and Betty Joe as well. They're investigating the whole Lady
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Joe side, but now they have all this information, so
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: they do talk to him about Fred and Betty Joe,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: and Carl says that he knows them, and that they
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: also bring up the ex wife.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: It actually turns out that Fred is Carl's uncle.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: We already said that, We already said that, where were you,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Marie said? Marie said that his nephew and his inform
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Sir is Carl.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Wow, it's just like not even okay, I'm reminding people
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: that weren't paying attention, like I wasn't okay.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Always brings in like this big like it's like we
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: mentioned that three paragraphs back, all right.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Huh, all right.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: So he mentions that he does know Fred, and he
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: knows Betty Joe, and he's also still good friends with
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Fred's ex girlfriend Marie. Now they seem pretty relaxed whenever
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: they're talking about Fred and Betty, But all of a sudden,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: the police department brings up Joe and Lyddy, and all
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, both of them, Norma and Carl seem
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: to get a little bit unsettled when speaking about the
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: last time that they saw them. They said they were
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: supposed to go on a trip to Panama City with
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: the couple, which is panning out with what everybody else said.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: But at the last minute they called Lyddy and Joe
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: got into a huge fight, and so they called up
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Norma and Carl and called off the whole trip. Now,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: please are suspicious of this answer because Carl and Norma
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: do not seem concerned at all. So this is their
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: friends that are going on a trip with, and they're
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: not concerned at all about that their friends are actually missing.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: They're not inquiring about them. Oh my god, I'm questions.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: They're like, oh my god, We're like the first thing,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: if we had friends that we were supposed to go
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: on it and then they canceled on us. Whatriends that
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: we're going to go on a trip with?
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: The other if we had friends.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: If we had friends that we were going to go
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: on a trip with, and the last thing we heard
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: from them was they got in a fight and canceled
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: the trip. The first thing that when police came over
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: and say, oh my god, we're supposed to go on
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: a trip with them. They got in a fight. Is
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: something you know going on with them? What's happening? So anyways,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: they quickly take a glance at Carl's vehicle as they're
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: heading out, and they find some blood on the back trunk.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Now this is evidence enough for them to go ahead
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: and bring Carl and Norma into the station on like
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: suspicions and everything. While they paint a search. Weren't for
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: their home and inside that home, so they get their
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: research warrant. They go back in. Inside the home, they
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: find a blood stained cushion. They also found a two
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: thirty eight caliber shell casings, as well as a sleeping
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: bag that was very similar to the one Liddy was founded.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Police process the items and find that the blood type
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: on the pillow matches Liddy's blood type, which is actually
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: a very rare blood type. And then only five percent
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: of the population have that blood type.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it with some sort of a something like a
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: negative or something like that. It was something real that
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: it was very small, very few people.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Have, unlike myself, which I match probably everybody.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Well, see I have the blood type that everybody can use.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's why I marriage you.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, you guys are useless to me. I think we've
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: talked about this before. All of you are useless because
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you all have like the AB or whatever and I
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: have the O positive, which everybody I can give to you,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: but you guys can't help me. No, I'm just I
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: am just free to all of you. Any you'll just
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: watch me die.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, we'll use you for organ.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Suck me dry, you know, classic mother child relationship.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Anyhow, any hoosel please take all this evidence to the
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: district attorney. And while they believe that Karl and Norma
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: did have something to do with the killings, all of
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: the evidence is circumstantial because they can't type. They can't
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: they can't do DNA at this time to find out
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: that this is Liddy's blood.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: So yeah, all they have is that they were going
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: to go on a vacation with them and then they canceled.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: And then they have some blood on a cushion that matches.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: And the trunks and.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: A little bit. But the blood on the trunk doesn't
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: match either one of them.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Could have been you cut your hand and yeah, and.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: The blood on the back of the trunk doesn't match
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: either Joe or Lyddy. So they it's all circumstantial and
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: it's very weak at best, because you just need, you know,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: just a reasonable doubt to not convict.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Somebody, and then all of a sudden there's no double jeopardy.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: So yeah, can't bring them back in if you do
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: find out they were So anyway, the point of this
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: is the DA is like, well, we don't take it fly,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: you got to go find something else. So Karl and
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Norma are released with no charges.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Well, meanwhile, the Clayton County Sheriff's Department was getting their
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: own search. Weren't for the patent property. Now they had
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: discovered that Carl and Joe had cleaned out the house
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: of Fred and Betty. So this is Joe that's missing
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: and Fred. Oh, I think we mentioned it's not Joe's
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: blood either, but we haven't mentioned we said it wasn't
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Liddy's or Joe's blood. Yeah, because we don't know what
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: happened to Joe yet. We still haven't found Joe. We
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: found let's recap because this is very confusing. I understand it.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of people it's oh, it's.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: It's it's I feel like it's less confusing than last
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: week when we had never in Worry. That was super
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: confusing and we probably should have used like code names
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: for them that weren't never in Worry like inn in
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: w anyway, So right now, let's recap. We have Betty
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Joe who was found on the Clayton side that had
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: been in the water for a long time. She was
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: married to Fred, who was found crashed into the train
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: but then was exhumed and discovered to actually be a homicide.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: And then we have Lyddy who was on the Fayet
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: side of the river and she was found just a
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: few days. She'd only been in the water a few days.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: We do not know where Joe is currently.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: And Lyddy and Joe were an item and Betty Joe
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: and Fred.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, So the Clayton County finds out that Carl and
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Joe had cleaned out the house of Fred and Betty Joe,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: which they had no right to those belongings whatsoever. I mean,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: it was his nephew, but he's not he's Betty Joe.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: To take it.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So they bring Betty Joe's daughter with them so
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: she can identify any of her mother's belongings inside the
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: patent home. Well, she quickly recognized her mother's bedroom, furniture,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: various pieces of jewelry, photos, basically all of her mother's
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: belongings are in now in this home with Norma and
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Carl now normal. To top it off, was even wearing
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Betty Joe's vest, and whenever Betty Joe's daughter saw it,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: she said, she went and attacked her.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: She said, the last things to remember was having her
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: hands around our throat.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, after discovering that the patents stole most of
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Betty Joe and Fred's belongings, they are certain that they
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: had to have something to do with their murders. However,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: one big piece of the puzzle is still missing, and
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: that is where is Joe Cleveland? Who knows, probably playing
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: a football game somewhere.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: I suspect police would finally get their answers four months
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: after discovering Liddy and Betty Joe, when Joe Cleveland's body
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: is discovered wrapped in a sleeping bag. It was weighted
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: down with chains and cinder blocks and the O oak
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: mulgi stew, I'm gonna butcher it, oak oak mulgy.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: I was born. Oklahoma's the old mogi. Okay, that's how
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: you say.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Well, it's about sixty miles away, and the manner of
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: death was gunshot wounds to the head with a thirty
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: eight caliber pistol. It was clear that whoever killed Lyddy
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: and Betty Joe also killed Joe along with a similar
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: cause of death. They also found that the blood found
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: on the trunk of Carl's vehicle matched the blood type
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: of Joe. But again, this is all circumstantial.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Very very weird, circumstantial. But Carl and Joe hung out
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: and did nefarious things together, so.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: They could have cut his hand whenever they were going
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: duck huner or something. They did not have DNA back
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy eight.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: As they had, they didn't have DNA testing.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, DNA testing, squeeze me. On top of just circumstantial evidence,
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: they also did not have a motive as to why
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Carl would kill Freddy. Freddy Well, Freddy and Betty were
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: next to each other, So fred Betty, Joe and Lyddy
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: and Joe.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I mean they were all friends of him with them.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So at this point there's nothing police can
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: do other than let Carl just go about his business.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: They think he's done something with this, but they can't.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: They have they have, So twenty five years would pass?
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Twenty five years?
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, when a cold case detective picks up the files
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: to see if there's anything he can do with more
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: modern technology in terms of DNA evidence. Now, as he's
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: looking through the files, he finds a photo of that
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: pillow that was blood stain, that had that blood stain
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: on it, and he knows that if he can get
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: his hands on that pillow, then he can find the killer.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: But it's been twenty five years, so was the evidence
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: maintained properly? Is the evidence even here? I mean we've
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: we've heard of things like, oh, yeah, there was a
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: flood and we throw all the out, Yeah, we threw
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: everything away. Well, to his surprise, he was able to
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: locate that pillow and scent it off for DNA testing.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Now that pillow comes back to match Lyddy Evans. They
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: now have like this solid evidence that Lyddy was killed
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: in the patent's home because the amount of blood that
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: was on the pillow, it's specifically tied to Lyddy and
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: she has found murdered.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Police find out that Carl has since moved to a
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: place called Locust Grove, Georgia, and he's working as a
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: roofer inbuy on February twenty third, two thousand and three,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: then went to his house to arrest him. He was
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: in bed at the time with his wife, Norma. Carl
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: was taken into custody while Norma was taken into another
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: room of the house to be interviewed by police. The
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: detective told Norma that if she would tell the truth,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: she might be able to get out of this without
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: an hil time. But she said, no, I'm going to
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: stand by my man.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: No, she says.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: She flipped on Carl in a heartbeat, like she was
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: a pancake. Yeah, she started singing what I found.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: So whenever they showed pictures of Carl being arrested and everything,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: and he's got man boobs, a big building. I don't
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: know how he's a roofer. He would have just crashed
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: that probably, yes, And you know, I'm not the thinnest person.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: But I'm going to make fun of Carl because he
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: killed a lot of people. So it's coming to you.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: We're gonna make fun of your band boobs. He needed
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: to have a sports brawn. It looked painful just to walk,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: all right. So Norma tells police that Carl did not
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: have a good relationship with Fred Wyatt, his uncle. She
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: said Fred was a mean son of a bitch and
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: would frequently beat Carl. Now, Carl also felt that Fred
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: was shorting him on some of the drug deals. And
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: you know this, this lines up because the daughter of Betty, Joe,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: believed that Fred was abusing her as well.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Now, as we mentioned before, Carl was still good friends
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: with Marie, which was Fred's ex girlfriend. Now, Carl did
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: not like the way that Fred had treated Marie. Apparently
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Fred was abusive to her as well, and Marie would
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: often confide in Carl about fred behavior. Now this gave
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: motive for Carl to kill Fred. They're starting to see
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: more of the picture coming together.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, so Carl's needing help to commit his crime so
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: against Fred, So he enlists his friend Joe Cleveland to
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: assist in the killing. Joe had always wanted to get
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: in the same business as Carl. I guess being a
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: firefighter was dull.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Work for Joe, not paying the bills. I mean, I
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: don't know what he was real jealous of, Like all
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: the money that Carl seemed to always have.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: He was all flashing around. Yes, and Joe wanted a
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: taste of that lifestyle.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Like Joe had like a single wide and Carl had
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: a double wife. Exactly Like when we're talking about flashing
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: money people, we're not talking about life. We're talking about
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: He had matching you know, sheets, like a matching towel set.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Was really he was able to go to Cole's and
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: get the bedspread with a thorough pill.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, he was really living it up.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Carl and Joe headed over to Fred's home and they
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: were greeted by Betty Joe. She tells him that Fred
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: is on a long haul trip and then he won't
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: be back for some time.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Who knows, Fred could have had a whole other family
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: somewhere else. He did that to Marie Betty Joe.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Now, Betty Joe's making small talk and speaking about how
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: much she loves Fred and how great her new marriage is.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: They're like two months into this new marriage and Carl's
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: getting pissed off and he's just sitting over there fuman
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: and Joe can see that Carl is fhuman.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Because he's on Marie's side with all this. He's still
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: upset that Fred cheated on Marie with Betty Joe.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I would think you'd be happy that Marie wasn't getting
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: beat by Fred anymore. But for some reason, he's mad.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: He's just mad. Well, Joe sees all this going down,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: and according to the story, what we can gather is
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Joe takes it upon himself to just pull out the
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: gun and start blasting away at Betty. Joe.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, apparently Joe was trying to prove himself to be Carl.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: He sees Carl getting upset about this. I'm sure he
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: knew a little bit of the back like history and
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: things like that, and so he takes it upon himself
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: to just really make this big, bold move and he
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: thinks he's gonna win Carl over and be able to
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: join his crime family. Because there was another part of
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: this where Carl everyone had these rumors he was part
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: of the Dixie MAFI or whatever. Yes, I don't think
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: he actually was, but that was what he was rumored
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: to be, so they're preody be scared of him.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, So that's going on. Joe's trying to make a
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: little inroads with Carl, and Carl's like, holy shit, what
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: the hell you don't show? All right, Okay, well we
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: got to do now? Is we got to clean this
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: shit up. So they quickly wrap Betty Joe up in
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: trash bags, They strip her out of her clothes, place
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: her in the trunk of her own vehicle, and then
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: they drive her down to the Flint River. They dispose
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: of the body. They weighed it down with cinderblocks and chains,
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: and as they're finishing up, Carl warns Joe that he
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: better not tell a soul about what just happened.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't be running your mouth. I mean, I mean,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: that's the basic rules.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, evidently for this to end up in the story,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Joe must have been some guy that ran his trap
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: a lot.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, well he did run his trap a lot. What
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: are you talking about how it ended up in the story.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Well, if they're like and the reenactment, Carl's like specifically
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: telling him don't run, I know why.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: It does, Stewart, we know why. He said that.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: He must have been known for running his mouth a
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: lot though about other things.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Well, no, if he just told him not to say anything,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: how would he know he was running his mouth about
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: killing people? If that's the first person Joe had ever killed.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: But if he probably ran his mouth about other ship
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: likes Okay, drug stuff, and you're not he was a
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: gossip people.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Well then why would he bring him in if he
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: thought that about him. I don't know that was that
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. They specifically said it because of
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: what Joe's actions are later.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, well I understand that. But if you would trust fella,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't have to be like, hey, don't tell anybody
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: that we just did this in the paraly.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you just need to say things just to make
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: sure everybody understands, Hey, you're not going to tell such
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: and such that I said this, right unless right, No,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: you just say to people just it's a general statement,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: all right. A month later, Carl is back at his
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: original mission, which was to kill sorry people, that was
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: a very long thing because Stue's asked Stuart, all right,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: So Carl's back at his original mission because I mean,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: they killed Betty Joe, but the plan was to kill Fred,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: so he needs to progress this this part of the
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: original plan. He calls Fred and he makes a plan
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: to head out to do some target practice with their guns. Now,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: as they are drinking and shooting guns, Fred asked Carl
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: if he knew what happened to Betty Joe because at
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: this point Carl was just telling police I think she
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: just ran off, which I mean, she wasn't the most
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: stable human. She was into drugs, drinking, truck carverer she
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: could have that could have been very well a possibility.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: This is when Carl decides to just shoot Fred in
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: the head out there because they're out there doing middle
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: nowhere some bear can.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: They're drinking bear shooting bear cans with their twenty two's.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: So Carl calls up Joe to help him out with
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: staging that car crash with the train. Joe comes out
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: and helps Carl load up Fred in his car and
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: then they go and push it in the train. That's
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: why his body was not well.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Joe actually drove the car into the train, toward the
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: train and then jumped out.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: As he jumped out, Yes, that's what I'm saying.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, and then they pulled his stage to his body
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: in the front seat.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay, Yes, it was clearly staged. Thank you Stu
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: for that.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: You are welcome.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Norma continues to tell place how Lyddy and Joe were murdered.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, again, all this that we're talking about is strictly
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: from Norma she is spilling the beans.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: On this Carl. Carl clammed up real tight. He was
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: I'm going to talk.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Well, he had to go put a shirt on.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: He was his orange jumps in.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, that took a long time for him to get
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: his shirt over his weekend.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Two. Yeah, So a week or two after the murder,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Carl found out that Joe told Lyddy what they had done.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Which again comes back to why in the thing they
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: said that Carl told him do not tell anybody.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Curious to know if Joe just was a person that
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: ran his mouth down.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: No, this is this is on Carl because when someone
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: tells me, don't tell anybody, there's a difference. When someone
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: tells me don't tell anybody. I'm going to tell you.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell anybody else. No, there's a difference.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like you need to really specify don't don't
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: tell Lyddy and don't tell anybody else, because they need
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: to say don't tell Stu. Because if someone tells me
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: don't tell anybody, I'm going to tell you. But then again,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: that's still in the circle of trust though, because you're
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: not going to tell anybody. Yeah, but I think there
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: needs to be a difference because to me, when someone
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: says this is a secret, don't tell anybody, I'm still
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: going to tell my spout. And I think other people
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: are the same way.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: My first husband or second or third.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: No, I'm saying in general, I think.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: You happen to be married to at the time.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: I think people are gonna say, I that doesn't really
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: include my spouse. Yeah, I'm gonna tell them, but I'm
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: not gonna tell anybody else. I think when you're a couple,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: you're part of person. For wrap myself out, for helping
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: with them, You're gone, yes, yes, So you're Lyddy and
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I'm Joe.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Oh lord, yes, So Carl found out that Joe told
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Lyddy what they had done. Yes, Lyddy was she got
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: told by Joe. So she's freaked out. She calls her
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: mom and somehow this gets out through the grapevine back
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: to Carl and he's like, oh this no, this ain't good.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Something's got to happen. So he talks to Norma and
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: he's like, normal, we gotta shut down all this uh
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: this talk going on out there, and Norma's like, yeah,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: you're right, Carl, we gotta we gotta stop all this.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: So this is when they come up with a trip
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: down to Panama City. So Joe and Norma are like, Hey, Joe, Lyddy, whytch,
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: y'all come to us with us to Panama.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: City, Joe And I said, Joe and Normal, Yeah, Carl
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: and Norma like to Panama with us. And Norma is
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: just going to go along with anything that Carl wants
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: her to do. She's just in it with him. So
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: that's whenever Joe and Lyddy they come over to get
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: ready to go with this trip, and that's how they
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: ended up in their home.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, so Carl's there. They're shooting the ship, they're drinking
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: a couple of things, blah blah blah. They're playing with
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: their guns. They're swapping their guns back and forth, and
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: then Carl he just takes the gun. He shoots at Lyddy.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: He shoots her in the leg, he shoots her in
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: the stomach, then he shoots her in the head. Then
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: after that he turns to Joe. He shoots Joe right
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: in the head. Police later find out from Carl that
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: while Norma was getting I mean because once once Joe
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: got arrested, he started or once Carl got arrested, he
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: started talking to police.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because they were told like, hey, Norma turned.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Onma fleft, told everything, blah blah. So Carl was like, screwed,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to start talking to So they later
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: find out from Carl that after he shot and killed
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Lyddy and sent Norma out to the r V to
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: get cleaning splies or whatever, she was sleeping bags, sleeping bags,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: cleaning splies whatever to clean up the crime, saying he
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: cut Carl cut a hole in Liddy's crunch and then
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: he raped her lifeless body because he was supposedly upset that.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Lyddy made him bail, made him.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Kill Joe, who was his best friend.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, it wasn't Joe's fault that he ran his mouth.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: He ran his mouth Lyddy's fault for bomb, I guess, yeah,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: which explains that the why the crotch was missing out
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: of her pants whenever they found her.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So they get him all wrapped up in the
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: sleeping by and they disposed of the bodies and the
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: two different rivers at the time.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, and Norma was completely one hundred percent part of this.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Helped push the bodies into the river, help dispose them
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: help the whole situation. So Norma signs a plea deal
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: and agrees to testify against Carl to put him behind
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: bars for the rest of his life, but a trial
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: would never happen because Carl pled guilty to avoid the
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: death penalty, similar to Brian Coburger's to hmm, now, I
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: agree the same amount of bodies too, except for Karl's
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: got something up a sleeve. He does, yes, but like
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: I said, he pled guilty, and while agreeing to this
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: plea deal, he explains to police that the real person,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: the real reason why he killed Fred, was actually Marie.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Marie had asked him to kill Fred and promised him
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: part of that life insurance money if he did this.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: I think it was like five thousand dollars worth of it.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: He also confesses to killing Marie's first husband, Richard Jackson,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three, for the same reasons he killed Fred.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: He said that he was mistreating her and then she
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: had the life insurance. He actually went on trial in
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: May of twenty twenty, twenty twenty three for that murder,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: the murder of Richard Jackson, so in the end he
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: was sentenced. So he pled to four went on trials
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: for the one. I don't know why. Maybe they were
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: just like, we're not going to give you a plea deal.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Probably were like, no, we're not giving you a plea
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: deal for this. No anyways, but he didn't get a
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: death penalty for that anyways. In the end, he was
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: sentenced to five life sentences plus twenty years and then.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: Marie, and they were consecutive, not concurrent.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, but he was already he would have already been
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: like fifty something whenever. He yeah, whenever. So he wasn't
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: going to get out anyways anyways. And so based on
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: his physique he definitely wasn't like any good health. Now. Marie, however,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: who was behind two of these murders and kind of
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: set off this chain of events, was never charged because
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: she actually died of cancer in nineteen ninety eight and
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: all this came out in two thousand and three.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: So she got away with murder.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Were like being the person behind it all?
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, accessory, Well, I don't know, instigator.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: A lot of times people that do that to get
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: charged with the murder themselves too.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, they can't prove anything. There's no phone calls,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: no text no letters. No, nothing.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Well no, but they if she'd been alive, they could
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: have interviewed her and things like that. She could have
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: been they could have said, okay, well, if you'll agree
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: to testify against Carl, then we'll give you whatever. But
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: she was too old and too bad a health to
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: stand trial anyways, and she was dead by the time
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: they figured them out. So yeah, she was all hateful
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: bitch though, because she turned on old Carl right away.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: She's like, hey, go talk to Carl, talk to.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Carl about these deaths.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so she turned on him straight away. So she's
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: just terrible person. I don't know why Carl was.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I hadn't turn back on her.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Well, because he actually did it though, and he killed
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Lyddy and Joe Oh, went and kill Marie.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, adverse killing people.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: But he seemed to dislike her. I don't know, he
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: will Supposedly she was like his aunt to him and
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, and he really, like you know, just
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: latched onto her at the beginning and saw her, yeah,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: like a mother's aunt type figure. So all right, well
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: that is our case. He was technically a serial killer.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: He killed five people for different various reasons, not the
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: reasons that we normally see a serial killer. But he
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: was a serial killer. He did. He was classified as.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: That, unlike the one or two or three people that
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: might be involved in the Austin murders.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we will get we will investigate, we will
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: get to the bottom of We will catch this person.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: We will catch this murderer, or we won't.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: If you're the killer listening.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, unless you're listening and they're out there and they're
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: close by, Okay, then now we will never mind. You're fine,
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Just just too clear of the lake. Guys, it's not safe,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: especially if you're a male between the ages of thirty and.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Forty forty nine.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, oh well you're safe.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Just made it.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: Shut up, Kara, all right, Stu, do you have a
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: yelling Jesus?
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Of course I have a yelling I don't think he does,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: ye Jesus.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: Okay. Oh, we got to tell the other part of this,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: that is my yell need Jesus. Okay, Stu's gonna give
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: a yo. We have a really good This is similar
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: to last week where there was like something crazy afterwards.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: So go ahead, Stee, tell us your y'all need Jesus.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Okay. Serial killer devastated to learn his daughter was slain.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: According to the mother, well, there's a lot.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Of yell need Jesus, people that need.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Jesus, say Florida, not Florida.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: Not Florida.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: Coming to us from News Nation by Liz Jason, Updated
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: August twenty seven, twenty twenty four. Norma Patten, the wife
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: and accomplice to a serial killer, is also the mourning
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: mother of a daughter allegedly murdered by a different suspect,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: the daughter's husband. Evidently the old Carl was looked at
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: and to his daughter his own daughter's death. Yeah, because
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: she was murdered before he got caught. Earlier this month
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: at Atlanta police arrested Christopher Wolfenbarger.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: What's earlier this month? What year was this?
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: This is in? Was it twenty August twenty seven four?
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: Is the date of the story.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: So, but that was when it was updated. When was
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: it was that when he was caught.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he wasn't caught until after Karl went to jail,
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: which was twenty twenty three.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: No, Karl went to jail in two thousand and three. Yes,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: but she'd been missing for twenty five years. I believe
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: she was murdered in nineteen ninety nine, Stu, keep reading,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: just keep reading, I'll get the dates for the people. Okay, okay,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: what happened to Stu's in charge of the research.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Well, her husband was charged with murder and his wife, Melissa,
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: who was found dead, Her body was dismembered in trash
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: bags on the side of the road in nineteen ninety nine.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: There we go. Yes, so Carl was still out because
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: he didn't get caught in till two thousand and three.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: So in nineteen ninety nine, he's still out and his
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: daughter goes missing.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, and they didn't find out that Carl Christopher did
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: this for quite some time after the fact.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was twenty five years.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, the arrest may solve a twenty five year old
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: cold case that involved police questioning Melissa's father, Carl Patten,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: the notorious He actually got his own name, the Flint
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: River Killer. And it wasn't until two thousand and three
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: that detectives identified Melissa's remains, which were initially found in
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: black trash bags, and they found her head and some limbs,
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: but they never did find her.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Well, this could be a whole nother case like called together.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: This is a dateline writing itself.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: I mean pretty much. Yeah, the body's DNA was familial
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: match to her father, so they used the DNN and
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: then wherever they got a match and coaches they're like, hey,
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: matchless to the Syria because that's why it.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Would have happened in two thousand and three, because he
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: got booked in two thousand and three. So then all
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: of a sudden they were able to identify Melissa.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, well yeah, because they had two children. They had
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: one I think her name was Tina, born in nineteen
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: seventy and then Melissa was born in nineteen seventy seven.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: Around all the time that all these bodies.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Are messing busy, He's killing people, he's making baby, having babies.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: Norma's pregnant, pushing dead people over reilings. I mean, she's
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: just the all American girl, you know.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So as you if you listen up to this point,
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: you would know that Carl was taken into custody for
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: the nineteen seventy seven murder of Lyddy Matthew Evans thirty one,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: and was soon linked to four other victims. The Flint
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Killer Flint River Killer resides at Dodge State, president Chester, Georgia.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Norma said her husband was devastated to find out their
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: daughter had possibly been murdered, but was also relieved to
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: know who may now be responsible.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: How the fuck do you think everybody else feels for
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: those twenty five years there Liddy being murdered, all these well, Fred,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: nobody cared about Fred. Now Lyddy was the real victim.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: Fred had to die.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, the only person who was actually innocent in all
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: those people that he killed. I don't know anything about
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: Richard the first one. But the only person innocent was
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Liddy because Joe helped Joe killed Betty Joe. Oh, I
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: forgot about Betty Joe. Okay, yeah, Betty Joe too.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: I ain't forget about Betty.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I forgotten Betty. I was only thinking of like
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Joe and Fred, and Fred was terrible. But yeah, Betty
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Joe is innocent and Lyddy. But I really feel bad
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: for Liddy because she had four children, four small children
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: and everything like that.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: Evidently, there's a podcast out there that you can listen
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: to that has the children of Lyddy on the podcast
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: about the murder of Melissa. So the children.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: They were killed by the children mother who was killed
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: by Carl are doing a podcast about his daughter who
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: was murdered by her husband.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, so this is this is stuff I found out
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: while googling, doing a search on this stuff.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, I couldn't figure out why they kept mentioning this
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Melissa Wolf Wolf and Burger. Yeah, they kept mentioning it.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: I'm like, how is this connected? I understand? It was
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: almost like whenever I find out that Carla friest tole
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: that fire hydrance do I know?
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: Well, just comes full.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Circle, Okay, getting back to our y'all need Jesus. He
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: meaning Carl Patten, was deliriously happy as soon as he
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: found out Chris had been arrested Norma. According to Norma Patten,
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: he was jumping up in joy. He called me to
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: tell me he knew his man.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Boobs were just flopping all around, just a bounce and
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: just like knocked him out. They were so excited.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Norma said that she had suspicions from day one about
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: Wolfenbarger's involvement in her daughter's death. Patton acknowledged her daughter's
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: death that showed us what we put other families through,
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: and nobody deserves that. Those families didn't deserve it, and
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: we don't deserve it. Either.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: I saw Norma on that porch when they interviewed her
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: after she was like she got a year's probation or something.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: That bitch did not give two changes. She did happy
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: she's still married to Carl.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I got a husband in president, you know whatever.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: She told Banfield that I guess which is the new
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: stuff that her husband was changed long before the death
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: is death of his daughter. He changed long before he
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: got locked up for those murders. He changed almost immediately
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: as soon as it was done in the seventies. I'm
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: sure Norma said he's changed even more since he's been
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: locked up. And to deal with the situation with Melissa
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: and her death, not being able to go to the
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: cemetery and not being able to put flowers on the
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: cemetery for his daughter tears him up.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: According to Norma, nobody cares Carl about your I mean,
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: I feel sorry about the daughter. I mean she yeah,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: she had this shitty dad and then she has this
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: shitty husband, and probably her having this shitty parent, actually
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: not just dad parents, probably those types of behaviors that
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: she learned led her to latch onto somebody who could
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: do this to her.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: You know, yes, an abuse of controlling freak.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, all right, so that's our y'all need Jesus, that's
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: our case. It's just crazy out there, folks. Just be vigilant.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: It's crazy out there. So there might be a serial
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: killer down in Austin. We don't know, we don't we do.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: We do know, it's definitely happening, and we're going to
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: break this thing.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: Wide over, cracking like an egg.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, all the extra time we have, we're gonna investigate.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: We're gonna ignore our children for the next six months
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: and solve this.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: Well, we are watching I'll be Gone in the Dark,
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: and that's pretty much what she did that show, I'll
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: be Gone in the Dark with Michelle McNamara with the
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: Golden State Killer.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, you're watching that there too. I'm popping in
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: and out. So I don't even know the name of it.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well it's called I'll Be Gone in the Dark.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: It's a good book. And this is the first. I
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: thought i'd seen the documentary before, but I guess I haven't.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: So anyways, all right, well I must have watched some
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: other special on it, because I know I watched a special.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, that is our case for the week, STU,
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Do you have anything else to add?
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: Would you like me anything?
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: No? Patreon, dot com, slash Bless this Mess podcast. We
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: appreciate all the support. We've gotten a few new Patreons
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: this week, so really appreciate you. Buy us a coffee.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: Of course I won't beg for it again, because that's
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: is beneath me.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: Evidently it's not.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: And then rate reviews, subscribe five stars only criticizing the comments,
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: and then Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok for documentary recommendations. Also
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: post like books I pick up like I was like
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: depressed the other day, like and I needed to go
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: to the bookstores to that was no, that was yesterday, Yes, yeah,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: all right, so I guess we will see you next time.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: Buy everyone say bye to by do tell't you.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Know it's bad to be superstihous. Mynapping elsin is working.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: It's learning.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: Say this wordy, I can