Latest / Real Crime with Adam Shand / The 44-Gallon Drum: A Friend's Fight for Justice | Tracey Franze

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The 44-Gallon Drum: A Friend's Fight for Justice | Tracey Franze · Real Crime with Adam Shand

0:05
Speaker 1: Apoche production.
0:10
Speaker 2: This episode contains discussion of murder, the disposal of human remains,
0:14
Speaker 2: and speculation about further offenses against women. Listener discretion is
0:19
Speaker 2: highly advised. Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm
0:28
Speaker 2: your host Adam Shand. In two thousand and eight, Melbourne
0:32
Speaker 2: man Fred Boyle was convicted of murdering his wife Edwina.
0:36
Speaker 2: In October nineteen eighty three.
0:39
Speaker 3: Melbourne man Fred Boyle has been found guilty of murdering
0:43
Speaker 3: his wife Edwina more than two decades after her disappearance.
0:48
Speaker 2: What made the crime so horrific was his decision to
0:52
Speaker 2: keep her body in a forty four gallon drum for
0:54
Speaker 2: twenty three years.
0:56
Speaker 3: The victim's remains were found sealed inside of forty four
0:59
Speaker 3: gallon drum for more than two decades as Boyle moved
1:03
Speaker 3: between holmes with the cup two daughters.
1:07
Speaker 2: The story of how he almost got away with this
1:09
Speaker 2: heenous crime speaks to a police in action and mistakes,
1:13
Speaker 2: and the determination of Duena's family and friends to seek
1:18
Speaker 2: justice on her behalf.
1:19
Speaker 3: A tip off from a family member has led to
1:21
Speaker 3: the arrest of a Melbourne man over the suspected murder
1:24
Speaker 3: of his wife, who vanished without trace in nineteen eighty three.
1:30
Speaker 2: Those close to Edwena suspected that Fred had killed his
1:33
Speaker 2: wife to cover up an affair he was having at
1:35
Speaker 2: the time. It was only when his daughter's partner discovered
1:39
Speaker 2: Fred's grizzly trophy that the killer was finally arrested. Tracy
1:45
Speaker 2: Frenzy tried for years to persuade police that her friend
1:49
Speaker 2: had not run away to start a new life with
1:51
Speaker 2: another man.
1:52
Speaker 3: Questions are now being raised about whether convicted killer Fred
1:55
Speaker 3: Boyle may be linked to other unsolved murders in Victoria.
2:00
Speaker 3: A woman who knew his wife says she has never
2:02
Speaker 3: stopped looking for answers.
2:06
Speaker 2: Now she believes Fred Boyle may have killed other women,
2:09
Speaker 2: and I caught up with Tracy to discuss this recently.
2:15
Speaker 2: Tracy Frenzy, Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shanned.
2:19
Speaker 1: Thank you.
2:19
Speaker 2: You had a brush with a very evil character in
2:23
Speaker 2: Fred Boyle, who murdered his wife a duena.
2:26
Speaker 4: Tell me how this all began for you.
2:28
Speaker 5: Well, Adam, it started for me back in Harkaway in
2:33
Speaker 5: nineteen seventy nine, where I'd purchased a horse and I
2:38
Speaker 5: was keeping it at a property there and the proprietor
2:41
Speaker 5: Ian had invited Fred and his wife ad Wena and
2:45
Speaker 5: two daughters to live in a caravan on their property
2:50
Speaker 5: because they had hit hard times financially. So Fred and
2:55
Speaker 5: and Weena were there with their two young daughters at
2:58
Speaker 5: the time. They would have probably been about four and
3:00
Speaker 5: seven when I first met them. Edwina had a horse
3:05
Speaker 5: at the time she was actually riding regularly, and Fred
3:10
Speaker 5: was doing a bit of carpentry and maintenance around the
3:13
Speaker 5: property apart from his full time job as a carpet layer.
3:18
Speaker 2: They were a Welsh extraction that come from Cardiff in
3:22
Speaker 2: the sixties.
3:22
Speaker 4: I believe what sort of bloke was he? I mean,
3:25
Speaker 4: a big, powerful guy. What do you remember of him?
3:29
Speaker 5: He was short and stocky, and I think he had
3:32
Speaker 5: two sides to him, and maybe everyone has two sides,
3:36
Speaker 5: but not a second side like he, not his, no, exactly, Adam.
3:41
Speaker 5: So his second side was that he could be quite
3:45
Speaker 5: cruel to animals. That was one of the things that
3:48
Speaker 5: stood out to me. He was a very possessive man,
3:52
Speaker 5: possessive of his family, his pets and any possessions.
3:57
Speaker 1: That he had, tools, et cetera.
3:59
Speaker 5: Everything was his and with his possessiveness. If anything threatened
4:07
Speaker 5: what he owned, he would get angry about it.
4:10
Speaker 2: And you mentioned this cruelty to animals aspect, and often
4:14
Speaker 2: that's the kind of gateway behavior towards cruelty towards humans.
4:19
Speaker 1: Yes, that's what I think.
4:21
Speaker 2: There was one specific instance which came home to you
4:23
Speaker 2: which showed this guy's cruelty.
4:25
Speaker 4: Hmm, what was that.
4:27
Speaker 5: There were a few instances, but the one that stood
4:30
Speaker 5: out the most was that he Ian and another horse guy, Vince,
4:37
Speaker 5: were down rabbiting at the bottom of the property and
4:39
Speaker 5: there was a dam down there. It was just beautiful
4:42
Speaker 5: and they found a horse stuck in the dam. So
4:46
Speaker 5: they worked out that they couldn't get it out. It
4:48
Speaker 5: was totally stuck with its legs in marred deep. So
4:52
Speaker 5: whilst Ian and Vince went to the top of the
4:56
Speaker 5: hill where the house was, it was quite a high
4:58
Speaker 5: cup of Steve hill to get help or to get
5:01
Speaker 5: a tractor or some sort of assistance, they went back
5:05
Speaker 5: down the hill to the dam and they found Fred
5:09
Speaker 5: had strangled the horse with a piece of fencing wire.
5:13
Speaker 2: The piece of fencing wire, Yes, and pulling a horse
5:16
Speaker 2: out of a dam is a pretty straightforward process. With
5:20
Speaker 2: the right implements. So he didn't wait for Vincentine to
5:23
Speaker 2: come back with the tractor. He just dispatched the horse
5:26
Speaker 2: like that, in a very cruel manner.
5:28
Speaker 5: Yes, and I think he liked to see things suffering.
5:32
Speaker 5: Another instance was he had some bantam chickens when he
5:36
Speaker 5: moved to another property at Officer and a dog came
5:39
Speaker 5: in the night and killed some of the chickens. So
5:42
Speaker 5: he told me, right, I'm going to sit up wait
5:45
Speaker 5: for that dog all night, and I'm going to have
5:48
Speaker 5: my gun and I'm going to injure it to give
5:51
Speaker 5: it a lesson. So wasn't like to kill it. It
5:56
Speaker 5: was to injure. So I think he took the light
6:01
Speaker 5: in injuring or worrying.
6:05
Speaker 2: I'm just going to say taking pleasure and that sort
6:07
Speaker 2: of a situation is a psychopathic trait.
6:10
Speaker 4: And I've seen this in a number of murders over
6:12
Speaker 4: the years.
6:13
Speaker 2: And there he is with Edwina. Their love affair had
6:17
Speaker 2: began when he was a bus driver in Wales. She
6:20
Speaker 2: was the conductor. Sounds like a love story on the buses. Yes,
6:23
Speaker 2: it didn't have a very pleasant end. What sort of
6:25
Speaker 2: person was Adwena?
6:28
Speaker 1: Edwen was a very devoted mother.
6:31
Speaker 5: She was kind, she liked her animals, and what I
6:36
Speaker 5: saw of Edwena was she was hard working. So when
6:40
Speaker 5: the girls were at school in the later time I
6:43
Speaker 5: knew her, which was over a period of about four years,
6:46
Speaker 5: she went and worked at the local chicken processing farm
6:50
Speaker 5: with collecting eggs and grating eggs and things like that.
6:54
Speaker 5: According to the people at the chicken farm, during her lunchtime,
6:58
Speaker 5: she would be sewing literally hundreds of sequins on the
7:03
Speaker 5: girl's ice skating costumes because her daughters were heavily into skating,
7:09
Speaker 5: and the eldest one being extremely competent and did end
7:13
Speaker 5: up becoming victorian junior champions. So she would be devoted
7:19
Speaker 5: with hours and hours. She was a seamstress. She made
7:22
Speaker 5: costumes for them. They were beautiful costumes. And then of
7:26
Speaker 5: an evening they would all be at the skating rink.
7:30
Speaker 5: The girls would be practicing and they would Fred ended
7:33
Speaker 5: up becoming the president and Adwena was helping I think,
7:36
Speaker 5: on the committee as well. And so their whole lives
7:41
Speaker 5: turned around from being a harsy kind of family to
7:44
Speaker 5: then going to more of a skating family. And so
7:48
Speaker 5: then they moved to dandinong to be very close to
7:52
Speaker 5: the skating rink because in officer it was just too
7:55
Speaker 5: much traveling every night going to the rink and then
7:58
Speaker 5: back to officers. You know, probably quite a few kilometers
8:02
Speaker 5: are racking up.
8:03
Speaker 2: And I think you also noticed that they did have
8:05
Speaker 2: a lot of friends though, but socially isolated.
8:07
Speaker 1: That's right, Adam.
8:08
Speaker 5: So what I didn't realize, and I wish I did
8:12
Speaker 5: in hindsight, because I could perhaps do something about that.
8:16
Speaker 5: But Edwena looked after people's horses who are living in
8:20
Speaker 5: Melbourne and she was on the farm, and I didn't
8:24
Speaker 5: realize she had her horsey friends, the group that we
8:27
Speaker 5: were in, her skating friends, and her probably her school.
8:32
Speaker 1: Mums that she mixed with, but she.
8:35
Speaker 5: Wasn't really close and couldn't share her personal life with
8:40
Speaker 5: those people, including myself. And I wish now that I
8:43
Speaker 5: had reached out to her, because I did suspect Fred
8:48
Speaker 5: was having an affair. But she was quite private too,
8:52
Speaker 5: so you wouldn't want to overstep the mark by But
8:56
Speaker 5: even in those days, there wasn't like a UOK day,
9:00
Speaker 5: so we didn't really ask people are uoka.
9:03
Speaker 1: And it's a real shame that I should, but she
9:06
Speaker 1: seemed happy.
9:07
Speaker 4: Did she ever express any concerns or I.
9:11
Speaker 5: Think she was happy as a family unit, because I
9:14
Speaker 5: think that's what she lived for, was her family. I
9:18
Speaker 5: think there were money concerns, and she was quite good
9:22
Speaker 5: on the purse strings and being thrifty in making clothes
9:25
Speaker 5: for the children and caring for them, baking and things
9:29
Speaker 5: like that. So I think if it wasn't for her, maybe.
9:33
Speaker 1: Things would have been worse financially.
9:36
Speaker 2: Yeah.
9:36
Speaker 5: And then Fred, Lee, my best friend, and I decided
9:41
Speaker 5: that we thought Fred was having an affair with one
9:43
Speaker 5: of the skating mums.
9:45
Speaker 4: How did that come about?
9:47
Speaker 5: So prior to the moving from Officer, they had a
9:51
Speaker 5: party on a Sunday afternoon with all the ice skating
9:54
Speaker 5: kids and their parents, and they said to Lee and
9:57
Speaker 5: I we weren't really in that group and we were
10:01
Speaker 5: happy just doing our horsey thing, but they said, oh,
10:03
Speaker 5: come and have a drink with us, girl. So we did,
10:06
Speaker 5: and as we walked through the house, we walked into
10:10
Speaker 5: the lounge room, which was empty, and we thought we
10:12
Speaker 5: were just cutting through, and all of a sudden we
10:15
Speaker 5: realized that Fred was there with Virginia, and it all
10:20
Speaker 5: felt very awkward. And uncomfortable, and just the way it was,
10:24
Speaker 5: that the way they looked at each other, like they
10:28
Speaker 5: were obviously having some romantic tete tete themselves, and I
10:32
Speaker 5: would say, we walked in the middle of it, and
10:35
Speaker 5: they weren't expecting that, and they kind of jumped back
10:39
Speaker 5: a bit, and it just felt very uncomfortable. And when
10:44
Speaker 5: Lee and I were driving back to Corfield that night,
10:47
Speaker 5: we said, oh, did you notice them looking at each
10:50
Speaker 5: other like that? And is something going on there? And
10:53
Speaker 5: we decided yes, we thought something was going on there
10:56
Speaker 5: for sure, but you know, we didn't really know what
10:59
Speaker 5: to do about that. And soon after Edwena and Fred
11:03
Speaker 5: moved and I think I only ever saw them once
11:06
Speaker 5: more when they lived at Danino.
11:08
Speaker 2: Right, And in October nineteen eighty three, Edwina suddenly disappears. Yes,
11:13
Speaker 2: and the cover story Fred gibs to people is that
11:16
Speaker 2: she's having an affair with a truck driver called Ray.
11:19
Speaker 1: Yes, she just takes off, Yes, she just takes off.
11:23
Speaker 2: When you heard this, did you think back to that
11:26
Speaker 2: moment at the party when you saw him talking to Virginia. Yes,
11:31
Speaker 2: he would be eventually the woman that he would kill
11:34
Speaker 2: his wife for.
11:35
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, so I did immediately think back and thought,
11:40
Speaker 5: you know, maybe Edwina had found out about it, and
11:44
Speaker 5: maybe the marriage broke her.
11:46
Speaker 1: But there's no way she would leave those children.
11:49
Speaker 2: Well, you were saying before she didn't take her car. No,
11:53
Speaker 2: you wouldn't take your car. I guess Ray's got a truck,
11:56
Speaker 2: but you still need your own car.
11:57
Speaker 1: Yes.
11:58
Speaker 2: And the oldest daughter, Carriza, she had a really important
12:02
Speaker 2: skating competition.
12:03
Speaker 4: The following day.
12:04
Speaker 5: Yes, So this was the Thursday night that Edwena went missing,
12:08
Speaker 5: and on the Saturday night was the big competition that
12:12
Speaker 5: Edwena would have been so excited about because Careesa was
12:17
Speaker 5: just blitzing it in the skating world. So there's no
12:21
Speaker 5: way that she would have left. Then the timing was
12:24
Speaker 5: all wrong.
12:25
Speaker 4: And this is normal.
12:25
Speaker 2: It's painstakingly sied on the sequence for this child's Yes,
12:29
Speaker 2: skating outfit. Yes, And she's willing her child to be successful.
12:33
Speaker 2: And one of these big competitions comes up. She runs
12:34
Speaker 2: off with Ray and says, I don't care about.
12:36
Speaker 5: That all of a sudden, Yes, Yes, it was beyond
12:40
Speaker 5: our comprehension that she would do that. So Lee and
12:43
Speaker 5: I went to the Dan Nong police station. When we
12:47
Speaker 5: were up that way and we called in there and
12:50
Speaker 5: we weren't taken very seriously at all.
12:53
Speaker 4: What did you tell them?
12:54
Speaker 1: Well, we walked.
12:55
Speaker 5: In and you think about maybe like two blonds walk
12:59
Speaker 5: into a bar, well, two blonds walk into a very
13:02
Speaker 5: blokey police station and they're like, oh hello, and you
13:09
Speaker 5: could hear sort of a bit of banter in the background,
13:11
Speaker 5: the fact that we'd come to the counter, which was
13:14
Speaker 5: odd and wouldn't happen.
13:16
Speaker 1: Then that make you.
13:16
Speaker 4: Feel when you're coming in there with a grave concern.
13:19
Speaker 1: Could very awkward.
13:21
Speaker 5: I felt like I was walking into a main bar
13:23
Speaker 5: of a hotel, and in those days women didn't really
13:26
Speaker 5: go into bars, so it felt uncomfortable with.
13:29
Speaker 2: Some of the coppies in those days had come to
13:31
Speaker 2: the station.
13:31
Speaker 4: Straight from the bar.
13:32
Speaker 5: The probably had yes, So we said that we had
13:36
Speaker 5: these grave concerns, and gentlemen at the desk just like
13:40
Speaker 5: probably just got a note and just wrote a couple
13:43
Speaker 5: of things on it. And we said, you know, there's
13:46
Speaker 5: no way she would have done that. It needs to
13:48
Speaker 5: be followed up. And they said, oh, yes, yes, yes,
13:52
Speaker 5: we'll look into it.
13:53
Speaker 1: Thank you girls, goodbye, and nothing happened. And then Ian
13:59
Speaker 1: and his wife, Carol.
14:01
Speaker 5: Carol's dad knew someone at the dane On Police, so
14:06
Speaker 5: they managed to convince them to go and at least
14:08
Speaker 5: talk to Fred, which the police did, and Fred just said, oh, no,
14:13
Speaker 5: she's run off and I don't know why she'd leave
14:17
Speaker 5: the girls that she has.
14:19
Speaker 2: And try the person you've come from Wales with. You've
14:22
Speaker 2: spent every single waking minute with. You don't know what
14:25
Speaker 2: she's thinking. You can't Understandre's been no discussion, no arguments, nothing.
14:30
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a Keystone Cops moment. And of
14:34
Speaker 2: course at that very same time, Edwina is in a
14:37
Speaker 2: forty four gallon drum somewhere on the premises and.
14:42
Speaker 5: Remained on the premises, despite several moves of house, remained
14:48
Speaker 5: in that drum for another twenty three years.
14:51
Speaker 4: It's monstrous, isn't it.
14:53
Speaker 5: So in nineteen eighty nine, so six years later, I
14:57
Speaker 5: was working at a rural property and the police or
15:01
Speaker 5: a policeman came from homicide and he said, oh, I've
15:05
Speaker 5: come to talk to you about Edwena Boil and I said, well,
15:09
Speaker 5: what's taken you so long?
15:10
Speaker 1: Because it was very frustrating.
15:12
Speaker 5: We couldn't really do anything in that six years, because
15:15
Speaker 5: we've done all we could. Other people had recorded it,
15:19
Speaker 5: and others had advertised in the Weekly Times in the
15:23
Speaker 5: horse section, which she always read to try and track
15:25
Speaker 5: her attention.
15:26
Speaker 1: Nothing.
15:27
Speaker 5: And meanwhile, her family in the UK get a letter
15:31
Speaker 5: from Fred to say Edwena's left, so don't be surprised
15:36
Speaker 5: if you don't hear from her at Christmas time. Now,
15:40
Speaker 5: Edwena was absolutely fastidious with getting everyone's birthday and Christmas
15:47
Speaker 5: presents to England, and it just was unheard of that
15:52
Speaker 5: she wouldn't write her weekly letter that she always wrote
15:55
Speaker 5: to them, like all communication just stopped. So Edwina's sister
15:59
Speaker 5: Val was instrumental in getting some attention with the police
16:05
Speaker 5: reported it via Interpol in England and finally it filtered
16:10
Speaker 5: out through here and police eventually excavated the Harkaway property
16:16
Speaker 5: in nineteen eighty nine and.
16:19
Speaker 4: Gone six years by this, yeah, she'd been.
16:21
Speaker 1: Gone six years.
16:21
Speaker 5: And that was when they started to finally take notice
16:25
Speaker 5: that something could have happened. And I said to Bill,
16:30
Speaker 5: what's taken you so long? And he said, we now
16:33
Speaker 5: think that she may have met with foul play.
16:36
Speaker 4: Oh you think so?
16:38
Speaker 1: Yes?
16:38
Speaker 5: Yes, anyway, twenty three years of vow pushing Vale was
16:45
Speaker 5: had a writer in England who was going to write
16:48
Speaker 5: a book about it, and I was offering to help
16:52
Speaker 5: on this side of her a world with the research
16:56
Speaker 5: for the book, and so I spent a lot of
16:59
Speaker 5: time researching when and videoed where she used to live,
17:04
Speaker 5: interview the occupants of the house. They were very keen,
17:08
Speaker 5: said come in, you can film the whole house. We're
17:11
Speaker 5: happy for you to do that. We want her to
17:13
Speaker 5: be found as well. Went to the chicken farm where
17:16
Speaker 5: she used to work, asked if anyone called Ray worked there,
17:20
Speaker 5: because there might have been someone called Ray who may
17:25
Speaker 5: have worked at the chicken pill.
17:26
Speaker 2: This would have been a basic line of inquiry to say,
17:29
Speaker 2: she's not communicating with her family, she's gone off with
17:31
Speaker 2: this man, wasn't under her own volition, and who is Ray?
17:35
Speaker 2: And as she said before, she doesn't have a wide
17:37
Speaker 2: circle of friends. How does she meet a person like
17:39
Speaker 2: this who's going to spirit her away completely from her life?
17:42
Speaker 4: And just missed opportunities?
17:45
Speaker 5: So I thought I heard her once maybe say that
17:50
Speaker 5: Ray treats me well, and I thought he may have
17:53
Speaker 5: worked at the chicken farm, but I didn't ask. But
17:55
Speaker 5: then it was out in the paddock, and maybe she
17:57
Speaker 5: said they treat me well, I'm not ray.
18:00
Speaker 4: But you had no inkling that she was having her
18:01
Speaker 4: own afild.
18:02
Speaker 5: No, the person she wouldn't have had time. But no,
18:06
Speaker 5: she was not that sort of person either. She was
18:08
Speaker 5: very devoted. So went to the chicken farm, did a
18:12
Speaker 5: lot of filming around there.
18:15
Speaker 1: They found a bone, so I.
18:16
Speaker 5: Took that in to get it tested at the coroner's office.
18:19
Speaker 1: They said, no, it was an animal bone.
18:21
Speaker 4: You are doing the police's work at this moment.
18:25
Speaker 1: Well, a bit like you, I guess.
18:28
Speaker 5: I was like an amateur amateur crime journal at that time,
18:33
Speaker 5: trying to help with this book, which unfortunately fell apart.
18:36
Speaker 5: The writer turned out to be a bit of a charlatan,
18:39
Speaker 5: I think, more into the money side of things. So
18:45
Speaker 5: because you were motivated by justice, oh absolutely, and she
18:48
Speaker 5: was trying to help. I had a lot of empathy
18:51
Speaker 5: for val and her family and what they're going through.
18:55
Speaker 5: Edwina's mother and brother died without knowing the outcome.
18:59
Speaker 2: With the cover story that she'd abandoned them completely.
19:03
Speaker 4: That must have been such a blow.
19:05
Speaker 2: Yes, it was, And knowing they must have known Fred
19:09
Speaker 2: the rat had killed her, surely they must have thought that, No,
19:13
Speaker 2: they didn't know.
19:14
Speaker 1: They didn't.
19:15
Speaker 5: Well, they were young and impressionable, I guess, and they
19:19
Speaker 5: believe Fred's story and he was apparently a wonderful father
19:23
Speaker 5: to them all those years.
19:24
Speaker 2: So it's grulish beyond belief. Their moving house through this
19:29
Speaker 2: next twenty three odd years. Yes, and he's totaling around
19:32
Speaker 2: the drum which is now sealed with mum.
19:35
Speaker 4: In the drum.
19:36
Speaker 5: And there's like party photos in the backyard with the
19:39
Speaker 5: drum in the background of the party pictures.
19:42
Speaker 4: See what's happening in his head.
19:44
Speaker 5: Yeah, So to me, he's not just a domestic wife killer.
19:48
Speaker 5: He's possibly killed more, and he certainly killed more animals.
19:51
Speaker 5: And I'd never actually been with him, just one on one,
19:55
Speaker 5: thank goodness. But my poor friend Lee had an incident
19:59
Speaker 5: where she was waiting for the vet up during the week.
20:02
Speaker 5: She went up there on a day off the horse needed,
20:05
Speaker 5: so she's waiting for the vet. Fred said, oh, I've
20:08
Speaker 5: got the day off today. Come in, Lee and have
20:09
Speaker 5: a cup of coffee. So she went in and had
20:12
Speaker 5: a cup of coffee and she said he sat down
20:14
Speaker 5: at the table, which is something we used to do
20:16
Speaker 5: when we were there, So it wasn't out of the ordinary,
20:18
Speaker 5: but he said to Lee, I don't know how and
20:21
Speaker 5: I don't know when, but one day I'm going to
20:24
Speaker 5: kill somebody.
20:26
Speaker 2: He's already done so well, not at that stat not
20:30
Speaker 2: at that say, well unless he's killed others.
20:34
Speaker 1: He killed animals and things like that.
20:36
Speaker 5: But anyway, Lee said, thank god the vet arrived just
20:41
Speaker 5: then because she was scared out of her wits that
20:44
Speaker 5: what's going to happen next. She knew Fred had a gun,
20:48
Speaker 5: and he used to boast about his.
20:50
Speaker 1: Gun and the fact that I don't know much about guns.
20:53
Speaker 5: But it came in two parts, and he said, if
20:56
Speaker 5: I ordered my daughters to get the other part, go
20:59
Speaker 5: and get daddy's other part of the gun. I've trained
21:02
Speaker 5: them not to, almost like a safety mechanism, that if
21:06
Speaker 5: he lost his temper and said get the other part
21:09
Speaker 5: of the garm, that they would obey his training and
21:12
Speaker 5: not get it.
21:13
Speaker 1: So this isn't just a normal You're right.
21:16
Speaker 4: I think you're right to be suspicious.
21:18
Speaker 2: You don't really hear Fred's name too much in relation
21:21
Speaker 2: to Frankston Tynong, but I think I think it pops up.
21:25
Speaker 2: It does pop up, and there's more reasons why it's
21:28
Speaker 2: worth a look, and of course in the end that
21:31
Speaker 2: Dwina is found.
21:32
Speaker 4: How did that happen?
21:34
Speaker 5: So Careesa, the oldest daughter, was living at home with
21:38
Speaker 5: Fred and carum Down's and her long term boyfriend was
21:43
Speaker 5: living there who became her husband. And he used to
21:47
Speaker 5: do our cars and then get rid of all the
21:49
Speaker 5: bits and pieces at tip. And he tried several times
21:53
Speaker 5: to take this drum to the tip and Fred said no, no, no,
21:58
Speaker 5: you can't touch that drum.
21:59
Speaker 1: You can't take it.
21:59
Speaker 5: And he said, why not, We're cleaning up and he said, no,
22:02
Speaker 5: it's got toxic carpet glue in it. You cannot to
22:05
Speaker 5: the tip. It's got to be disposed of properly. Anyway,
22:08
Speaker 5: After a few times, this guy, Michael decided he's very
22:12
Speaker 5: possessive about that drum and he actually said to Careesa,
22:17
Speaker 5: I think your mum's in that drum. Carisa said, don't
22:21
Speaker 5: be so stupid. My mum left years ago. And so
22:26
Speaker 5: he was having one of his cleanups with a few
22:28
Speaker 5: mates over and they came to cutting up some things
22:32
Speaker 5: with some angle grind with an angle grinder, and he
22:35
Speaker 5: said to his mates, I'm going to cut this drum
22:38
Speaker 5: and see what's in it. All of a sudden, Fred's
22:42
Speaker 5: lunch is ready. Come in, everyone, come in. Lunch is ready,
22:46
Speaker 5: and so he cut it, but he didn't really get
22:49
Speaker 5: to see what was in it. He said, he saw
22:52
Speaker 5: like a slimy brown wallpack that plastic heasi, sort of
22:56
Speaker 5: stuff that they used to have wool bales in. He
22:59
Speaker 5: said he saw that, and then they were called into lunch.
23:03
Speaker 5: So when he came back to keep loading the trailer
23:06
Speaker 5: after lunch, the drum and the wallpack were gone. A
23:12
Speaker 5: few more weeks goes on and him and Casa decided
23:16
Speaker 5: they're going to separate, so he's moving out, and he said,
23:20
Speaker 5: I've got some storage wheelibins and I just need to
23:23
Speaker 5: empty out my tools, separate them from your dad so
23:26
Speaker 5: I can move.
23:27
Speaker 1: And he actually went out.
23:29
Speaker 5: One morning weekday morning and opened one of the wheelibins,
23:34
Speaker 5: took some things from the top of it, and then
23:36
Speaker 5: down the bottom found the brown woolpack, put his hand
23:41
Speaker 5: inside and pulled out some bones. Totally freaked out, and
23:47
Speaker 5: he said, even though he was saying that, he didn't
23:50
Speaker 5: really think in his deepest thoughts that she would be
23:53
Speaker 5: in there. So he contacted Caresa, and he said, you've
23:57
Speaker 5: got to come home, and Chrisa said, and they weren't
24:00
Speaker 5: getting on. Chrisa said, and I'm not coming home. What
24:02
Speaker 5: are you talking about? And he said, you've got to
24:04
Speaker 5: come home. I found your mum. And so Careesa went home,
24:09
Speaker 5: and her sister Sharon, and her partner or husband. So
24:14
Speaker 5: the four of them went there and all were horrified
24:20
Speaker 5: because they believed Fred all this time they had, and
24:23
Speaker 5: they still did after.
24:24
Speaker 2: And you can imagine the kind of narrative they built
24:27
Speaker 2: up against their mother. She abandoned us when off with
24:30
Speaker 2: ray and never heard from her again.
24:32
Speaker 4: What a thing, you know, all the type.
24:34
Speaker 1: Of stuff that's right.
24:35
Speaker 5: So the four of them called police, and the police
24:39
Speaker 5: came and did a full investigate everything in the house,
24:42
Speaker 5: took the remains away, and then basically that night, in
24:49
Speaker 5: a late night session, Fred was charged with murder because
24:53
Speaker 5: he still had her body after all those years, which
24:55
Speaker 5: was quite well preserved because he had concreted the ends
25:00
Speaker 5: of this drum and so it was very very air tight.
25:04
Speaker 2: And his motivation, well, I keep her for all times
25:08
Speaker 2: sake or what not.
25:09
Speaker 1: I want to keep her.
25:11
Speaker 5: I think he's the ultimate trophy keeper good point.
25:16
Speaker 1: So basically he.
25:19
Speaker 5: Went into custody and we had a private funeral for Dwina,
25:24
Speaker 5: which was beautiful at the end of two thousand and six,
25:30
Speaker 5: and the court case came up around eighteen months later
25:35
Speaker 5: and he was charged.
25:37
Speaker 2: I mean, what was the atmosphere at that funeral because people,
25:40
Speaker 2: as you say, the kids had believed that mum had
25:42
Speaker 2: left and others maybe have thought that as well, and
25:46
Speaker 2: suddenly you're all together with this ghastly.
25:50
Speaker 4: Reality.
25:51
Speaker 5: I think we were all of it just numb because
25:57
Speaker 5: a I never thought the day would come, because I
26:00
Speaker 5: thought after twenty three years, I'd sort of thought this
26:04
Speaker 5: is never going to to transpire. But yeah, so there
26:08
Speaker 5: were the girls, wrote beautiful eulogies and Edwina, her sister
26:15
Speaker 5: Bell came out from the UK. That was the second
26:18
Speaker 5: time she'd come out. She'd been out for the inquest
26:20
Speaker 5: prior to that, so we reconnected with her and you know,
26:24
Speaker 5: there's beautiful candles and it was lovely. It was a
26:27
Speaker 5: lovely service, but kind of disbelief. That disbelief, a numbness
26:33
Speaker 5: and a disbelief.
26:35
Speaker 2: You can imagine his daughters who believed the story all
26:39
Speaker 2: these years, and a certain amount of faith and devotion
26:41
Speaker 2: to their father. You wonder what the conversations were like
26:44
Speaker 2: after that.
26:46
Speaker 5: Well, they still supported him even through the court case
26:49
Speaker 5: because he played not guilty.
26:51
Speaker 1: Yes, and he fred, how.
26:52
Speaker 2: Does the body get in the drum in your back garden?
26:54
Speaker 2: You carry a out for twenty three years and you're
26:56
Speaker 2: still not guilty. And the forensic evidence showed that she'd
26:59
Speaker 2: been strangled with the men's tie and then shot in
27:02
Speaker 2: the head with a rifle.
27:04
Speaker 5: Well, forensics said they couldn't say the strangulation because the
27:08
Speaker 5: vertebrae was separated at that point in her neck. But
27:13
Speaker 5: Fred jumped in the witness box at the end, which
27:16
Speaker 5: just shocked us all because I wasn't expecting him to
27:18
Speaker 5: say anything at all. I usually no after the inquest,
27:22
Speaker 5: he didn't speak there.
27:23
Speaker 1: I just wasn't expecting it.
27:25
Speaker 5: And he said that he came home late and discovered
27:28
Speaker 5: her dad with a gunshot worn from his gun and
27:33
Speaker 5: his tie tied around her neck strangled. So he found
27:38
Speaker 5: her like that and they said, well, why didn't you
27:41
Speaker 5: call the police, And he said, well, it was my tie,
27:44
Speaker 5: my gun. I was having an affair. I thought they'd
27:47
Speaker 5: think I did it.
27:49
Speaker 4: Well, you're right, fred and.
27:51
Speaker 5: So he said he was just trying to cover it up.
27:55
Speaker 5: He said, in those days, he said, I'm not a.
27:57
Speaker 1: Very smart man.
27:58
Speaker 5: I didn't know too much about forensics, because the police said, well,
28:02
Speaker 5: you could have proven that you didn't do it very
28:05
Speaker 5: easily when we did testing and things. But he just
28:08
Speaker 5: said no, I thought that I'd be blamed. So he
28:11
Speaker 5: said that he found her that he didn't do it.
28:15
Speaker 2: A desperate last What amazes me. This is one of
28:19
Speaker 2: the most aggravated murder cases. You could imagine the pain
28:24
Speaker 2: and suffering of the family caused. Kept toting the body
28:27
Speaker 2: around for twenty three years. He only gets twenty one
28:31
Speaker 2: years with the seventeen year non parole period, which means
28:36
Speaker 2: I think he's almost eligible for parole this.
28:39
Speaker 4: Year or next.
28:41
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, you might be right. He's probably just recently, certainly.
28:46
Speaker 2: But I think it was an extremely light sentence considering
28:49
Speaker 2: what he did.
28:50
Speaker 5: Yes, I think judges these days are a lot heavier well,
28:54
Speaker 5: with some sentencing, especially those sort of murders.
28:57
Speaker 2: Better well, they take into account the suffering of the
28:59
Speaker 2: victim's family as well, and the egregious nature of the
29:04
Speaker 2: aggravated nature of this. By lying and creating a whole
29:08
Speaker 2: cover story and toting her around and the horror of
29:10
Speaker 2: finding her in that way. That's got to be taken
29:12
Speaker 2: into account. You know, I've seen people get sent to
29:16
Speaker 2: twenty one years where they haven't even killed somebody grievous
29:19
Speaker 2: bodily harm for.
29:20
Speaker 4: Instance, we're just talking to it. For instance, Lauren Huxley
29:22
Speaker 4: from Sydney.
29:23
Speaker 2: It was attacked by Robert Black farmer and left for
29:25
Speaker 2: dead in her house North Meet in Sydney, and he
29:28
Speaker 2: got twenty four years with a twenty one on the bottom.
29:31
Speaker 4: So Fred was extremely lucky.
29:33
Speaker 5: Yes, I think the judge said that he wanted to
29:35
Speaker 5: take into account that the daughter's children, so his grandchildren
29:41
Speaker 5: would like to see him out of custody before he dies,
29:45
Speaker 5: basically because he'd be getting pretty old by now.
29:48
Speaker 1: So I think that was part of it.
29:50
Speaker 4: So they know where to visit him if they want to.
29:53
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, exactly.
29:54
Speaker 2: I don't think that's so reasonable, I think at all.
29:57
Speaker 2: But most importantly, no remorse by the sounds of it.
30:03
Speaker 5: No remorse in fact her reputation, which she was a
30:09
Speaker 5: very decent, honorable woman who was living her life the
30:13
Speaker 5: best she could, and he made her out to be
30:17
Speaker 5: someone that ran off with the trucky and abandoned her
30:20
Speaker 5: daughters and.
30:21
Speaker 4: Let her parents die, thinking that story was true.
30:25
Speaker 5: Yes, and telling her sister, if you hear from her,
30:29
Speaker 5: tell her to get in touch with the children. I
30:31
Speaker 5: don't know why she would have abandoned them.
30:34
Speaker 2: And the sad irony of all this is that he
30:36
Speaker 2: does this so he can be with his mistress Virginia
30:39
Speaker 2: and they don't even spend that much time together.
30:41
Speaker 5: No, and I have mixed thoughts about that. I think
30:45
Speaker 5: partly he was concerned. I think his main concern was
30:49
Speaker 5: when Edwina found out about the affair, which she obviously
30:52
Speaker 5: did because someone had seen her in the street and
30:56
Speaker 5: she'd had her hair cut short, blonded, and she'd lost
31:00
Speaker 5: a lot of weight.
31:01
Speaker 1: They said, oh, what's going on. You know you look amazing.
31:05
Speaker 5: She said, I'm just trying to keep my husband, and
31:07
Speaker 5: so yeah, that was obvious and careesa. It also heard
31:11
Speaker 5: them fighting about Fred having an affair, so Edwina was aware,
31:16
Speaker 5: but I think he was worried she would take the
31:19
Speaker 5: children back to England and return home and that was
31:24
Speaker 5: they were his possessions.
31:26
Speaker 1: Once again. He was very obsessive with things.
31:32
Speaker 2: With a deceased body. In the end, Yes, it's monstrous.
31:36
Speaker 2: I think you were right to believe there's a capacity
31:40
Speaker 2: for further offenses. And I think what they found with
31:43
Speaker 2: Duenna's body gives further weight to that what was found
31:48
Speaker 2: with her body.
31:50
Speaker 5: So I was fortunate that I was able to support
31:54
Speaker 5: her sister vo through the whole trial. I got to
31:57
Speaker 5: sit there and from the word go, and basically Vow
32:01
Speaker 5: wanted me to write notes. She wanted to read them
32:04
Speaker 5: during the evenings when she was, you know, before the
32:07
Speaker 5: next court days. So I was madly writing notes as
32:11
Speaker 5: going over the forensic evidence at the beginning, and they
32:15
Speaker 5: went through mentioning her skull, and then they said there
32:21
Speaker 5: was a mass of black hair, black in color, eighteen
32:27
Speaker 5: inches long and wavy, and what was Adwena's hair and
32:31
Speaker 5: Awena's hair at the time of her desk would have
32:34
Speaker 5: been short blonde.
32:36
Speaker 4: Was she a natural blonder?
32:38
Speaker 5: She was mousey honey brown like light brown, but not
32:42
Speaker 5: dark hair.
32:43
Speaker 4: And I don't know what happens with you.
32:44
Speaker 2: I guess some forensic experts out there might say, yes,
32:47
Speaker 2: over time here will change color, but it's the length
32:50
Speaker 2: of it black like black.
32:52
Speaker 5: It was so bizarre that so immediately val who became
32:58
Speaker 5: like Miss Marple. She looked at me and I looked
33:00
Speaker 5: at her. Like black hair long black hair just did
33:05
Speaker 5: not fit. And there were a few things that made
33:09
Speaker 5: us think earlier maybe he could be involved with the
33:14
Speaker 5: Tailong Frankston murders.
33:16
Speaker 2: Six women and girls between nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty one.
33:19
Speaker 2: Yes found in a close proximity the Frankston Tynong area.
33:23
Speaker 5: Yes and Fred had had a van that he says
33:28
Speaker 5: was stolen in nineteen eighty and found burnt out at Taynong.
33:33
Speaker 5: So we approached our detectives at the time at the
33:37
Speaker 5: court in a break of the court and said, what's
33:40
Speaker 5: this black hair?
33:42
Speaker 1: And of course.
33:43
Speaker 5: Edwena had been buried like eighteen months earlier, so there
33:46
Speaker 5: was no sort of coming back apart from photos to
33:48
Speaker 5: check it.
33:49
Speaker 4: And we said, was she buried or better made it?
33:52
Speaker 1: Yes, buried.
33:52
Speaker 2: Well, it's potential. There was potential to examine.
33:55
Speaker 5: So what's circumstances They said, well, we don't know. We
34:00
Speaker 5: were thinking that was probably her hair and obviously it
34:03
Speaker 5: had been overlooked because I'm more interested in obviously the
34:06
Speaker 5: dental records to confirm it was her. They weren't really
34:10
Speaker 5: focusing on the hair. So Val said to Rod Wilson,
34:13
Speaker 5: that's not her, that's a detective, detective, Rod Wilson, that's
34:17
Speaker 5: not her hair. Could it be possibly a tiney on
34:21
Speaker 5: victim's hair? And Rod said, no, no, we've got that guy.
34:26
Speaker 5: He's a projectionist. We know who that was.
34:28
Speaker 2: And Harold jam Harold Jadman who they were fixated upon him.
34:32
Speaker 5: They were fixated upon him as being the one.
34:35
Speaker 1: They just didn't have enough evidence.
34:38
Speaker 5: But Vell said, well, there's some anomaly here, huge anonymally
34:42
Speaker 5: with her hair and what was found with her, and
34:46
Speaker 5: it needs to be followed up. So they weren't really interested.
34:49
Speaker 5: And then her and I separately have contacted homicide a
34:54
Speaker 5: few times since two thousand and eight to say what
34:58
Speaker 5: about this hair? And the second time I contacted them
35:03
Speaker 5: the detective, I said, would you just go and look
35:06
Speaker 5: at the photos in the archives to see what they shows?
35:10
Speaker 5: And he did, he said, and he said that it
35:13
Speaker 5: basically showed like he described it, like a massive seaweed.
35:19
Speaker 5: But I think they were black and white photos. He
35:21
Speaker 5: couldn't really tell. I've done a bit of soul searching
35:24
Speaker 5: to bring this out because I've never really spoken about
35:28
Speaker 5: it publicly, but it took some persuading I did, and
35:33
Speaker 5: it's it's got the potential, of course, to hurt Careesa
35:38
Speaker 5: and Sharon, the daughters. And I've spoken to val Vow
35:43
Speaker 5: supportive of taking this further and getting the hair analyzed.
35:49
Speaker 5: She doesn't want to hurt his daughters either.
35:52
Speaker 2: Or I mean, let's interrupt, but is it possible that
35:55
Speaker 2: those daughters could be any more hurt wow than they
35:57
Speaker 2: already have been?
35:58
Speaker 1: I don't think so, that advocate, yeah, so I.
36:02
Speaker 4: Think I don't think you should be to restrained by that.
36:05
Speaker 1: No and so police.
36:08
Speaker 5: When I was talking to the detective, I got the
36:10
Speaker 5: same detective twice, even though there are a few years apart,
36:13
Speaker 5: and he was still adamant that Harold Janman was the man,
36:19
Speaker 5: and thank you very much, Tracy. But he said, anyway,
36:23
Speaker 5: exhumation possibly would be thirty thousand, and we don't have
36:27
Speaker 5: the department doesn't have that sort of money to spend
36:30
Speaker 5: on something like that. I think he thought it was
36:33
Speaker 5: a wild goose change.
36:34
Speaker 2: I think the chief commissioner flew to Tasmania when the
36:36
Speaker 2: police helicopter recently.
36:38
Speaker 4: Were not this similar amount of money. So there in
36:41
Speaker 4: lies hypocrisy.
36:43
Speaker 5: I think he said the Homicides God Cold Case Section
36:46
Speaker 5: didn't have that in their budget or something like that,
36:48
Speaker 5: so as tragic as that would be. And I don't
36:52
Speaker 5: want to give the time on Frankston families and friends
36:57
Speaker 5: false hope either, But all I can do is put
37:00
Speaker 5: this out there and say this is what we know.
37:04
Speaker 5: We've tried to do it through the police, through the
37:07
Speaker 5: proper channels to have this investigated. They're not particularly interested.
37:13
Speaker 5: Can we get some interest from police? Hopefully they'll listen
37:17
Speaker 5: to this. And I like the way that you've delivered
37:20
Speaker 5: it respectfully, and I think the victims deserve.
37:25
Speaker 2: That well, and dare I say it, even Fred deserves
37:29
Speaker 2: it either he deserves to be convicted for other things
37:32
Speaker 2: he's done or exonerated. Let's condemn him for what he did,
37:36
Speaker 2: not what we think he did. So this is also
37:38
Speaker 2: in his interests as well. And I think the detective
37:40
Speaker 2: Rod Wilson's now actually retired, and I think I'm sure
37:44
Speaker 2: he would like And I think I might send a
37:45
Speaker 2: message to you, right, I think you're on my Facebook.
37:47
Speaker 4: I'm going to send your.
37:48
Speaker 2: Message whether you'd like to talk about this, and maybe
37:50
Speaker 2: you can help clear it.
37:51
Speaker 5: Up maybe and really just Adam to rule it in
37:55
Speaker 5: or rule it out, and then Valani because it was
37:59
Speaker 5: very early in the case, a lot of the witnesses
38:01
Speaker 5: were not allowed into the court by that stage, so
38:04
Speaker 5: we were probably the only ones really to take that
38:08
Speaker 5: and take that information and go right, there's just something
38:13
Speaker 5: that doesn't add up here, whereas a lot of the
38:15
Speaker 5: witnesses were locked out until it was their turn to speak.
38:18
Speaker 5: So there's probably not a whole lot of other people
38:21
Speaker 5: that are aware of it apart from the police.
38:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that the Victoria Institute of Forensic
38:28
Speaker 2: Medicine are excellent at their jobs and they would have
38:33
Speaker 2: been over that crime scene where Duena's body was finally found,
38:37
Speaker 2: and they would have accounted.
38:38
Speaker 4: There would have been material.
38:40
Speaker 2: Available on what they saw or what they recorded, and
38:44
Speaker 2: if there was other biological material that didn't belong to
38:48
Speaker 2: a Duena, it should have been noted.
38:51
Speaker 1: It was noted. In fact in the court case.
38:54
Speaker 5: There was an electric blanket, there was a mattress, there
38:56
Speaker 5: a foam mattress, there was a sheet. There was some jewelry,
39:01
Speaker 5: some on the body, some not on the body. But
39:04
Speaker 5: this hair, the hair is the glaring anomaly that we
39:10
Speaker 5: just can't work it out. And Vow's now closer to
39:14
Speaker 5: eighty than seventy probably, and she would like to see
39:19
Speaker 5: this investigated, as would I, because we've been through a
39:22
Speaker 5: lot together over the years and we've got As Vale said,
39:26
Speaker 5: it's an awful thing to bring up, but she also
39:30
Speaker 5: understands the years and years of not knowing and if
39:34
Speaker 5: it could help another family, that's her main aim.
39:37
Speaker 2: And you know there are people out there coming from
39:40
Speaker 2: different quarters who think the same thing like you know.
39:43
Speaker 4: I spoke recently to Peter.
39:44
Speaker 2: Of Atos and his daughter Stacy about the letter that
39:48
Speaker 2: Peter wrote from He.
39:50
Speaker 4: Was a silver gun rapist. He's not a good guy.
39:52
Speaker 4: That doesn't matter. If his information is good, we take it.
39:55
Speaker 2: And he wrote from jail about the possible connection with
39:59
Speaker 2: Raymond Stinky Edmunds and Lena's murder.
40:02
Speaker 4: Obviously that's not right.
40:05
Speaker 2: That was a bit of a shock for you to
40:06
Speaker 2: learn a bit that he wrote that he wrote, and
40:09
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, yeah, they were confusing clues in
40:13
Speaker 2: all this, but all worth following up.
40:16
Speaker 5: Well, it might jolt someone else's memory. To Mike could
40:19
Speaker 5: only hope of that if there is someone else that
40:22
Speaker 5: knows something and maybe they will come forward. We can
40:26
Speaker 5: only hope for the poor families that are still suffering.
40:30
Speaker 5: But yes, for the silver gun rapist to say that
40:33
Speaker 5: Edween and Boil is also a tiny victim when writing
40:37
Speaker 5: to the Chief Commissioner, I'm not sure how that came
40:43
Speaker 5: about apart from yes, Ray Edmonds having that information. But
40:47
Speaker 5: you know, there's probably other stuff that we don't know about.
40:50
Speaker 2: So I'm not going to draw the obvious coincidence the
40:53
Speaker 2: truck driver Ray and then Ray.
40:55
Speaker 4: I know, I know, we're not going to go there.
40:58
Speaker 4: That's not possible.
40:59
Speaker 5: It's relevant because that was a made up thing, because
41:02
Speaker 5: a made up thing by Fred exactly. But yes, it
41:05
Speaker 5: is a bit of a conciy, yes.
41:07
Speaker 2: But there are circumstantial pieces of evidence that are worth
41:10
Speaker 2: looking at. In terms of Fred Boyle, he was a
41:14
Speaker 2: courier driver at the relevant time.
41:17
Speaker 5: And carpet layer with a black van that was big
41:21
Speaker 5: enough easily to put someone in if he being a
41:25
Speaker 5: bus driver, would be well aware of the vulnerabilities of
41:28
Speaker 5: women waiting on bus stops, and he had a van.
41:33
Speaker 5: He was very strong. He could I know that police say, oh,
41:37
Speaker 5: whoever it was must have had a charming way of
41:40
Speaker 5: getting the women into the van.
41:42
Speaker 1: He wouldn't have had a charming way.
41:44
Speaker 5: He would have just maybe spoken to them and then
41:47
Speaker 5: he could have easily picked them up and just put
41:48
Speaker 5: them in the van because he was so strong he
41:51
Speaker 5: could do that.
41:52
Speaker 2: And then mysteriously, at the relevant time, his black Forward
41:57
Speaker 2: van disappears. Suppose always stolen and found burnt out. This
42:02
Speaker 2: is at the relevant time between those dates.
42:05
Speaker 5: It's just after the three Tinong victims were found in
42:09
Speaker 5: early December nineteen eighty and yes, it was late December,
42:15
Speaker 5: I'm sure when Vince told me that Fred's van had
42:18
Speaker 5: been stolen found burnt out at Tynong, which it's some
42:23
Speaker 5: more food for salt.
42:25
Speaker 2: It is, and I think that's a very responsible thing
42:28
Speaker 2: to do to bring up Forard. I really appreciate that,
42:29
Speaker 2: and I love the fact that you've listened to the
42:31
Speaker 2: podcast and you've decided to come forward with this information
42:34
Speaker 2: and we take that very seriously.
42:35
Speaker 4: So thank you so much, Tracy Frenzy, Thank you so much.
42:38
Speaker 1: Adam appreciate it.
42:44
Speaker 4: As Tracy.
42:45
Speaker 2: This is I mean, the first the story of Fred
42:47
Speaker 2: Boyle and the way he killed Atwena. It's just horrific
42:50
Speaker 2: and it does give you enough evidence to think that
42:54
Speaker 2: he could have done other things, and this is tantalizing information.
42:57
Speaker 4: Tracy's brought up about.
42:58
Speaker 2: This massive hair that was kept within the bag where
43:02
Speaker 2: Avena's remains. Where is this from another victim? The answer
43:06
Speaker 2: was still out there. Police, you can find out. You
43:08
Speaker 2: can find out. And I'd like to think that those
43:12
Speaker 2: police at Dandenong who dismissed Lee and Tracy as just
43:17
Speaker 2: being meddlesome women, hear this and think we let that
43:21
Speaker 2: killer go for decades because we didn't take information. Seriously.
43:26
Speaker 2: That's a lesson for all police. If you have information
43:28
Speaker 2: about this crime or any others, please call crime Stoppers
43:31
Speaker 2: when it hundred, triple three, triple zero.
43:33
Speaker 4: Or if you don't trust the cops.
43:34
Speaker 2: And maybe some things in this story would make you
43:36
Speaker 2: not trust the police, you can always email me, as
43:39
Speaker 2: Tracy did. Adam Shand writer at gmail dot com. This
43:43
Speaker 2: has been Adam Shann for Real Crime. Thanks for listening,
44:01
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this episode and supporting this story
44:05
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