Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Dennis Nilsen – Part 2

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Dennis Nilsen – Part 2 · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: The following podcast. Please grab maarial.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Listener. This question is that.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Donald Patreon? Are you started?
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're started. What's up guys?
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: O Kate account me now for that three two one go?
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you're like, what are we talking about?
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to listen stuff.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: And then you said we're just gonna wing it and
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: start it, and then I hit record and you're like
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: talking Patreon and then.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Here we are, Well, excuse me, I'm Nicole, I'm Ben.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Wick and.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Graham True Crime Podcast. What's up, guys?
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: How's it going?
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: It's going, It's going pretty good.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: So good.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: We are work clearly going to be talking patreons patrons
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: today and mimosas was.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I was going to talk about that to grab your Moses?
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, where do we leave off.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: For the patrons at Christine Scott.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Christine Scott was our last one that we thanked. Christine Scott,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: you're getting thanked again and thank you much for being
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: an amazing Patreon. And of course we've got Echo Yama
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Lee's frets. I really hope I said your name right.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry if I didn't. And Jessica Bird they all
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: signed up for Patreon this week. So you guys are amazing.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much for everyone over on Patreon. You
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: guys really help us keep this going, so thank you
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: so much.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we literally think you guys are all freaking awesome.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Legit, that's why they got exclusive March right.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: So and they'll get more of that.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they will. You actually have some socks you wanted
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: to do a giveaway?
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Well no, I have some Jacko's stuff actually that I
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: want to give away and I just haven't done that yet.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: You probably should, but I will.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I'll get on that, do it, you know, with my
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: oodles of free time, I'll get right on that.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Doodles and noodles.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, speaking of the merch and giveaway and stuff, I
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: was thinking we should come up with a new design
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: for Wicked and Grim.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Soon, another one, another one?
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Well, I think every once in a while, and you know,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: to come up with a new design or too. You
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: know the way we go.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Well, you enjoy doing it, so it do make sense.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I like doing the artsy stuff, so why not. So
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: what we want you guys to do? Head over to
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: our Instagram or a Facebook or email or wherever you
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: want to get a hold of us. And tell us
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: what you would like to see fro merch. Maybe we'll
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: even do a post so you guys can comment and
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: let us know. So, so, yeah, tell us what you
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: want to see. I know some people want to see
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: a few particular things, like you're nasty.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're nasty. That's a good one. I actually
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: want to see that too.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe we'll have to do that in this round,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: but we'll see what everyone says.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: So I'm so just distracted by the smell of farts.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Well because I'm right by the dogs and they're disgusting.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: They're nasty, and so this is gonna be fun.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I can't put all the blame on them. I'm not
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: gonna lie. I might have broke wind once or twice.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, this tiny home living thing, you know,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: I'm just living the life.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: There's not much ventilation. No, it's you trapped.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: And it's quite funny. So part we're on, Part two,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Part two, Part two, And I ended in kind of
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: a shitty spot for y'all last time, and I got
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: some flak.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: But it was epic.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: But to my defense, is that not like how every
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: TV drama ends pretty much making you want more? Yeah,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: so I'm just starting to be cool, so like, don't
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: be all at me.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: It was well played.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: I think you're very well played at job. I deserve
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: a pat on the back, not like flak.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I'll i'd patch you. What's you on the other end
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: of the table and behind a microphone?
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: No, but actually I thought i'd get more flack than
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: I did, So thank you. It was fun.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they got you back. They got you back.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: They do they do. Okay, so yeah, are we ready
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: to start part two?
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: We're just diving right in.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Well yeah, I think before you got
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: in hand, let's get wondering what's going on here? But
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: let's do this because I still think that this is
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: just not a widely out their case, which is so wild.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Because it's not a widely out their case, it's.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Nuts not that is not more known and just out
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: there everywhere.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, can you give us a quick wrap up, like
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: a ten second elevator pitch on what last episode entailed?
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'm going to do that. Oh okay, Okay, So
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: we were talking about Dennis Nilsen and so he had
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: just basically had turned his fantasy into a reality. He
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: had just murdered fourteen year old Stephen Holmes, his fantasy
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: being basically like necrophilia. I guess, yes, is what you
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: call it, but I just hate saying that it's.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: But that gross word for a very gross definition.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: And up to that point of Stephen, he really was
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: like using his own body to satisfy those fantasies, which
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: is okay, we were okay with that, and then it
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: just crossed the line.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean personally, I'm not okay with him. I'm
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: not okay with the things he was doing because it's
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: just weird for me personally.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: It makes you uncomfortable.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't make me uncomfortable. It would make
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: me uncomfortable if I were doing it. It's not for me,
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: But I'm not going to pass judgment on someone doing
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: it to.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Teach their own But exactly, if I came home and
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: you had your body covered in.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Uh, talcum powder, baby.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Powder with blue lips, I might have a couple questions
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: looking at myself sexually, and I might have a couple questions.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie, but again, they would be coming
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: out to each their own. But yeah, at that point,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: he was not doing any harm, but he crossed the
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: fucking line. And now he's doing harm and now you
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: get to hurt hear about this mole phul.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: And now it's not fucking okay.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, So where the heck was it? Oh? Yes, and
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: he had left, Oh yeah, I am right here. He
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: had left, got it, even Holmes, He had left him
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: under his floorboards.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Right, looked like thirty days or something.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: No, dude, it was way more. Which he would remain
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: under those floorboards until August eleventh, nineteen seventy nine, which
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: was basically like eight months.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: That's what it was. Yep, Like whoa, yeah, I remember
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: my mind being fucking blown because I thought it was
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: something like a week or up to thirty days or something.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: But yeah, no, eight months. That's that's.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like it's this is a nasty story. Like honestly,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: if you guys are having a snack right now, maybe
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: just finish that.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: And if it's beef jerky, just oh oh.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Man, Okay, here we go. Okay. So here are some
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: of Dennis's words in response to his first victim. Okay,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: I eased him into his new bed beneath the floorboards.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: A week later. I wondered whether his body had changed
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: at all. Or had started to decompose. I disinsurged him
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: and pulled the dirt stained youth up onto the floor.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: His skin was very dirty. I stripped myself naked and
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: carried him into the bathroom and washed the body. There
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: was particularly no discoloration, and his skin was pale white.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: His limbs were more relaxed than when I had put
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: him down there. Oh wow, Yeah, Like the stripped naked
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: part is just kind of like, okay, okay.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: He okay, I mean, I'm trying to find a silver
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: lining here.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: There's no silver line.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: At least he was being careful with his remains, is
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: the only thing I can think of. But no, it's
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: not any kind way. It's in a very disturbing way.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Disturbing. So in August eleven, Dennis would dispose of Stephen's
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: body in a bonfire in the garden he had previously
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: negotiated with the landlords to be exclusively his I'm not
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: entirely sure why it took Dennis this long disposed of
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Stephen's body, but it did, which brings us to his
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: next victim, Andrew Hope. And this next victim wouldn't be
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: until October of nineteen seventy nine. So Steven was murdered
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: on December thirtieth, nineteen seventy eight, so it was quite
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: some time really before he would strike again, and some
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: light with this victim with Andrew, he would survive.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Oh really.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: So on October eleventh, nineteen seventy nine, Dennis would meet Andrew,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: a local student from Hong Kong. Meeting him is our dog,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: just like ground.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I think she's either snoring or she's upset and like
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: growling at something or someone. But I just hear it constantly.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: I know me too. It's kind of distracting because I'm like,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: what is going on back there?
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Do you want to pause it and take care of her?
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Sure?
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, she's a princess, peach. She needs our attention one
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: sec Holy shit, Okay, So she's she's just snarling away
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: overund cold.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: I was like, thought something was upsetting her, but holy gosh, okay,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: so distracting here with these animals, sorry, guys.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: And if you hear some snoring in the background.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: She's getting old. There's and there's nowhere for them to
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: go in here. Okay. So we had left off Andrew,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: just a local student from Hong Kong, and Dennis was
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: meeting him or not, or he met him at a
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Saint Martin's Lane pub. He would lure Andrew back to
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: his flat with the promise of sex like don't go now.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Dennis would attempt to strangle Andrew, but somehow he managed
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: to escape and get out of Dennis's home. He we
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: could say that Andrew was the badass of the day,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: being that he actually was able to escape this moful
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: But he's a bit of a disappointment afterwards.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Because he doesn't do anything when he.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Does report the incident to police, causing Dennis to be questioned,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: but in the end decides not to press charges. Fuck,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: I'm like nobody, But then remember that time, I don't know,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: you had to be careful, right because being gay was
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: illegal and stuff, right, So true, yeah, but I'm like,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, if he'd press charges and stuff like
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: this could have maybe saved people.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: But hindsight is twenty twenty, right, I don't give a shit.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Well, all right, clearly they get to save people.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: It could have, and it would have been awesome if
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: he did continue those charges, But like you said, he's
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: putting himself in danger if you were to press charges. Now,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: he's going to be publicly gay.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: And sometimes you have to think about yourself. I suppose
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: I get it. I get it.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: For example, maybe it wasn't going to be that he's
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: going to be reprimanded legally for being homosexual or anything
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: like that. But maybe it's just strictly his parents would
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: find out. His family would find out, and he didn't want.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: That, and he was keeping it a secret, right or something.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: So it's such a shame that people have to hide
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: themselves like that or had to. Not that they still don't,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: but more so.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think that they necessarily have to do anymore,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: but I mean I understand it's probably still hard.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean there are personal circumstances where people
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: do still.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Have to hide themselves. But yeah, and it's.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Sad and I'm sure or it would have been at
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: least something like that on his mind.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: So yes, Ben, I get it. What well, I was
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: just like this guy, shit, you need to come forward.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: But no, I get it. I get it.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: It would have been nice, but I'm sure there's a reason, you.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Know, and who knows how long it would have even
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: put Dennis in jail if it did or whatever. Right,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: So that it might not have even done anything right.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: And I mean it could have been just his word
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: against his right, like yeah, who used to say probably
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: nothing could have even potentially even happened of.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: It, And Dennis might have been a more like rippertal
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: person too, and yeah, so who knows. Okay, So two
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: months later Dennis was at it again. December third, nineteen
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: seventy nine was the date, and the next victim would
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: not be so lucky. This time it would be twenty
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: three year old Canadian student Oh, who was on a
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: tour of England visiting relatives. His name was Kenneth Oakenden.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: I think that's how you say his last name, oaken
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Den Oakenden, something like that.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: That's a badass name.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: You like it?
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: I did, especially because I was just watching the Hobbit
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: movie today with Thorin Oakenshield.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Oh Oakenden, I don't know. His name's Kenneth.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: It's a badass name. I like it.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: So Dennis encountered Kenneth once again at a local pub
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: we Hear, where he learned Kenneth was a tourist and
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: offered to show him around London. They would spend the
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: afternoon together sight seeing and drinking when it started to
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: get dark, and Dennis invited Kenneth back to his health
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: for drinks and dinner, but it would not last long.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Dennis was not able to recall the exact moment he
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: strangled Kenneth, but as Kenneth was listening to music and
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: wearing headphones, Dennis took the headphone chord, dragging Kenneth across
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: the floor with the chord wrapped around his neck and
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: he strangled him. Fuck, like, that's I think a terrible
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: time to just slip. You're into your music, yeah, and
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: then oh. He then poured himself a drink and continued
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: like listening to the music on the headphones fuck, as
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: he did with Stephen. Dennis then bade Kenneth before placing
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: him in his bed to sleep beside him for the night.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: That was some Silence of the Lambs shit right there?
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Holy fuck?
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: What do you mean really? I don't think I've watched that?
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, we are watching Silence of the Lambs
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: this weekend? What the fuck?
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I have other shit on my list to watch.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: How have you never seen? How am I married to you?
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Ask yourself that I'm pretty awesome, though, I.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Mean you are, but you've never seen silence of the Lambs,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: I don't think, so, wow, we've got to change that.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, why does someone get stranged him in there with
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: headphone cord?
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Well no, but there's the Buffalo Bill, the main serial
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: killer in it. He's very much so a creeper. He
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: goes for women with soft, supple skin sort of thing
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: because he wants to basically make a skin suit because
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: he wants to be a woman. But he's a man, right,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: And it's kind.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Of that's not a lotion thing in the well, yes.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: It puts a lotion on its skin or else it
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: gets the hose again.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, well I've heard that.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, that's that's from this look at me. So
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: and he's got like in his house, he's got like
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: a music thing that he does and he's dancing and stuff.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: So just like the whole creepy vibe with like the
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: music and the okay, being sensual with like the dead
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: is just full.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: He premeditated that in a way, because I don't think
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: that Kenneth was listening to the records with headphones prior
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: to But then Dennis was like, here, put these on.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: This is like my favorite record like really listen and
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: then like boom done.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: The following day, Dennis would buy a Polaroid camera to
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: capture the beauty of Kenneth's perfect and beautiful body. He
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: laid his corpse in suggestive poses to capture on film,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: before finally laying beside him as he watched TV for
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: several hours.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Kenneth would be stored under the floorboards as Stephen was,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: but on many occasions, Stephen would actually go about disturbing
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Kenni's corpse. He would move his body around his home
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to bath him, watch television with and have conversations with
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: as though he was still there and listening.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: That's a visual ala really disturbing it.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: It's super disturbing. But as Kenneth's body would begin to
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: show signs of rot, he would be retired beneath the
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: floorboards and Dennis would once again have to face his
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: inevitable loneliness. That is until Martin Duffy would enter his life.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Un Martin Duffy. Duffy was a sixteen year old gay
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: teenager from Birkenhead, England.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: He keeps praying on like the young.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he likes him really young, like really.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Young, which which is even more of a shame, not
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: necessarily strictly because of their age, but because that they're
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: a lot more susceptible to like these older men who
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: are kind of in the gay world atmosphere or whatever,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: who kind of know like the way around the bars
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: and stuff, where these new kids are basically just trying
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: to learn and explore themselves. Right.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and Martin's a runaway, so he did. He
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: was attracted to like homeless people, runaways, and like sex workers,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: so he would kind of target people that may not
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: be noticed that they're missing. Yeah, so yeah, okay, so yeah, Mike,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I said. Martin had run away from home and hitchhiked
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: the four hour distance to London. Dennis would cross paths
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: with him on May seventeenth, nineteen eighty at the train station.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Martin had been away from home for four days at
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: this point and was both exhausted and hungry. Dennis offered
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: him a hot meal and bed for the evening, which
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Martin greats gratefully accepted, and like, I have trouble when
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: people are too nice, Like I think that would almost
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: make me like run. But Martin was also like almost
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: survival point at that like he needed he had needs.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, exactly, so he.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Almost probably had to accept that offer.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Which is in a situation like that, how could you
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: not accept it?
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I know, but you shouldn't because people are evil.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: People are fucking evil.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: They're evil. Okay, So there is good out there, don't
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: get me wrong. There are there are good Okay. I
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: think there's more good than evil. I'm going to say
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: that because like, majority of people aren't going to murder
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: you in your house and when you're in their house.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I hope, yeah, I would hope. Theoretically speaking, though,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: it's got to be like a perfect balance theoretically because
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I guess if you look at it in not necessarily
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: like a biblical term of like heaven hell type evil,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: I'm saying, in like a nature version type of evil.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: So I'm gonna put it in this way because this
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: is one way that I really understand it, and it's
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: a really good analogy for hunting. For example, around here,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: the moose population it goes up and down, so the moose,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: you know, they have offspring in the population increases, and
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: with the population of increase, and we're going to use
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: moose as the good as their population increases, so does
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: the population of wolves, and we're going to use them
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: as the bad. So as the moose population grows, the
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: wolf population now grows because there's a larger food source.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: So now as the wolves are picking off the moose,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: now their population starts to decrease. And now the wolves
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: are losing their food source and they start to starve
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: to death, so their population decreases. And now as their
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: population decreases, the moose goes up. So it's as constant
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: up and down, up and down. And I would like
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: to think it's a very similar thing with good deeds
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: and bad deeds. If a person sees bad deeds around
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: them lots, maybe a lenst tell him to do some
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: good and vice versa. Who knows. I don't know.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: I just think Dennis is bad. Yeah, I know, I
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: get what you're saying. I totally get where you're saying.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: But I also think that humankind has more good than bad,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: is my opinion. I would hope that not every half
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: the people are around running around murdering people and stuff.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, I guess it depends on what you Yeah,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: it depends on where you draw that line, because I
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: mean throwing a paper napkin on the sidewalk. Is that bad?
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, but maybe on some people that wouldn't be bad.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: But I'm like, don't letter. Okay. So once back at
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Dennis's place, Martin would eat dinner, have a couple drinks
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: with Dennis, but then begin to nod off and want
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: to head to bed. Falling asleep in Dennis's bed, the team.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: The team would not know what hit him when Dennis would,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: like the others, begin to strangle him as he sat
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: on his chest and tighten the twine around his neck
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: until he was unconscious. Finishing the job, he dragged Martin's
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: body into the kitchen, where he drowned him in the sink. Fuck,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: that's just such an intense way to just finish it,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: because can't you just finish it by strangling them too,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Or he's just ensuring they're dead. I guess I.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Think I think it's his failsafe. You see bubbles coming up,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: you can't see necessarily.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Because there'd be like some instance, relready hold them under
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: there for like five minutes, right.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just making sure, just making sure.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: He would bath Martin's body, which he noted as being
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: the youngest looking body he'd ever seen. Along with bathing
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: his body, he would also groom his victims, being so young.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know if Martin in particular would need this,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: but Dennis wanted his props, as he would call them,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: to have smooth, shaved torso to conform to his physical
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: idea ideal.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Fuck, he looks so disgusted. I am just that. Note
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: this is the youngest body he's seeing.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: That was just yeah, but he's that he already murdered
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: a fourteen year old in this guy sixteen? Oh?
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: I know, but just that that cress is gross.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Gross.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: He's seeking the young looking.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: He likes that. He would also go about applying makeup
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: to any obvious blemish on the skin, and the body
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: would usually get dressed in socks and underwear. Once Martin's
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: body was ready, he'd move him around his home, with
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: him sitting him at the kitchen table, has he made dinner?
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: And ate dinner, placing him in his bed, the very
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: bed he was strangled in, where Dennis would then repeatedly kiss, compliment,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: and caress his dead body.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: He would also masturbate while sitting on Martin's stomach. I
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: should mention this. I don't know if anyone's wondering this.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: But along with masturbating, Dennis would also participate a ceranial
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: sex I think is how you said inter I don't know.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I was like, what the fuck is that? I had
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: to look it up, which is victims they would basically
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: have like sex with their thigh.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: So I just can't believe some of the shit that
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I have to research and say on here.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: But that's interesting, okay.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: He would insist that he never actually penetrated his victims,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: apparently freeing their beautiful bodies from the pathetic ritual of
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: commonplace sex.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Interesting because I just assumed that like penetration was occurring.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: No. No, he like was adamant that it was not
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: that he would do masturbation, this thigh sex thing. And
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: there was some reports but not all of them, say
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: like world as well. I mean he's still defiling them,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: oh oh god, yeah, like one hundred percent. Yes, yeah,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: But then I think he was also like he didn't
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: want to. I don't know, I'm going to go there.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: He's still defiling them. He's thinking he's keeping them pure,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: He's not.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think he was thinking that they had
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: last longer with these means than the other means. Wow, anyway,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: fuck on this the case half Oh my gosh, Like
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: it's it's actually because it's like one thing to just
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: know that that your victim was murdered, which is horrific,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: but then to just like also this one step further
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: of how they were treated after they were murdered and
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: they were just like prancing around this dude's like apartment
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: and stuff, is just like devastating.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because they've been murdered and it's not over yet. Yeah,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: we still have to go through more.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Oh like it's disturbed. It's just really disturbing. Anyway, once
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: the body started showing signs of bloat, it went under
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: the floorboards straight away. And at this point though Dennis
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: was hooked. He's a full born serial killer of course. Yeah.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: He would begin to kill in greater frequency that year alone,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: killing five more victims and attempting one other, with only
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: one of those murdered victims ever being able to be identified,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: and that was twenty six year old William Billy Sutherland.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Billy was originally from Scotland, where he had a girlfriend
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: and a child, but as he was looking for work
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: in London, he found it to be more difficult than expected,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: and turned to sex work, finding that older men like
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Dennis were especially eager to pay for a night with
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: a handsome Scottish man. And that's just how his story
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: would end. He crossed paths with Dennis on August twentieth,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: and in the unfortunate story of Billy actually pursuing Dennis,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: he would find himself back at Dennis's house being strangled,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: as the rest of Dennis's victims had shit. Dennis's main
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: victim profile was men he believed wouldn't be missed. Like
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Report miss talked about this, all of his victims were
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: found at local pubs or on the street, often young
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: runaways like Martin, homeless men, or male sex workers. These
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: people were also relatively easy to get back to his
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: house with the offer of food, alcohol, or a place
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: to stay.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Dennis is a piece of shit. Haven't said it yet.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: He's a piece of shit.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Super shit, like super super super shit.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: He's got a big s on his chest drawn and ship. Yeah,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: just super shit super ship.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, And I don't like this nickname, but I felt
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: like I should mention it in here. Oh, because some
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: people probably have heard that Dennis can be referred to
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: as the kindly Killer. I don't know if you've heard this,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: in that he often he often offers to help those
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: in need with food or a place to stay, showing kindness,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: though with the intention to kill.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: So it's false kindness.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Though, yeah, like kindly killer.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a way of luring them in with
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: kindness and then turning it. Yeah.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I just like hate, I just hate that nickname. Actually,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I don't love it at all.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, he's not kind that's it's an ironic nickname.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: M hm.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I have no quarrels with that nickname personally
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: because it's it's an ironic name.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: It is ironic. Yeah, but I'm just like, eh, okay,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: So some reports I read, though, I would say he
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: didn't intend to kill, Well, fuck that, and was adamant
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: that the decision was not made until moments before it
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: actually happens. That but being that he would often go
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: out looking yeah for victims. In my personal opinion, I
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: consider that premeditation and just like the number alone that
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: he's done. Yeah, right, Like I just yeah, no, I
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: like you're lying, dude, Yeah, oh yeah, no, for sure,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: but for sure, for sure because bodies of some of
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: the victims could never be a dentis we're going by
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: what Dennis had decided to share or remembers from many
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: of these incidents, and there's many victims he remembers very
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: little about. But come the end of nineteen eighty, the
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: bodies were beginning to accumulate under Dennis's floorboards, which were
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: attracting insects and creating some voul odors.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, I can imagine. I was, I was curious, like
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: how much floor space does this guy fucking have?
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Like I honestly couldn't imagine the smells that would be
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: coming from there, Like it's just repulsive.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: He would place deodorants underneath the floorboards with the bodies
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: and spray what would he spray insecticide? Sorry, twice a day,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: But obviously it didn't get rid of the odor completely
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: or the presence of bugs. Like his place was just
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: like infested with like flies too, I can imagine.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean that's not solving the problem. That's
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: a temporary thing for a couple hours.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like that's why he would do it like numerous
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: times a day.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: That's ridiculous.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like just disgusting. Which is also like another reason
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: why I don't even understand how he got other victims.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: But then they were lots of times drunk and stuff. But
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: when you walk in there and just be like, holy shit,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I gotta get out of here.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean runaways and stuff, right, who've been living
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: on the street potentially.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: I guess, I guess. Gosh, that breaks my heart, it does. Okay,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: So Dennis would start dissecting and removing the bodies of
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: all his victims since December of nineteen seventy nine, a
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: total of six victims.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, wait, hold on, he would like the people already
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: under the floorboards. Yeah, okay, I understand.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, it was kind of like mixed reports. I
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: think it's sometimes he would like dissect them of their
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: organs and stuff right away, but I don't know if
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: he did that initially, so as far as I could tell,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: all have his kills since his first kill of Steven,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: and unlike Stephen's body, which he had left intact when
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: he burned it, yeah, the others he did start to
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: dissect their remains, so I don't and some I know
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: he didn't do right away, so he was like doing
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: them when he was about to burn them, and I'm
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: assuming this is a way to be more discreet. Like
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: he had six bodies, right, so he's like having to
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: bring them out to this fire. Like that's a lot
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: of things, Like I don't think you could just bring
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: six bodies up when you live in public.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think so, I would assume so.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, but himself recalled how absolutely vile the process of
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: this was. He'd have a drink of whiskey to get
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: his courage up and grab handfuls of salt to brush
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: aside maggots from the remains. Yeah, it sounds right, often vomiting,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: vomiting as he dissected the bodies, but then also masturbating
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: as he sat alongside the corpse or corpse as a
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: symbolic gesture of saying goodbye to his victims. What yeah,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: what yeah? Yeah? I said it.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: How uncomfortable, How uncomfortable?
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: How the fuck kate? What?
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah? It was like his way of saying goodbye.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: He would masturbate one more time after he dissected, like
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: their organs out of their bodies.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: So he's literally having to drink whiskey and hold back
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: vomit from what he's.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Doing oh and vomiting, he's not always holding him back
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: his pukan.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: And he's like, I'll just rub one more out here.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah what, Yeah that happened. The look on your face.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I am just back baffled by that. Holy shit. Yeah
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: yeah yeah, because I'm I'm the type of person where
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: I need to understand things. Why is a big thing
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: when I'm discussing things, or keep it understand.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: He'd also probably okay, like he did it after he
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: had cleaned them up in my opinion, right, so.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: But it's still such a paradox.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: I know. I don't know if you can get in
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: the head of some of these people.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Dude, I don't think Yeah, I don't.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Wow, okay, because anything he's doing doesn't really like make
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: sense to me.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Well, no, it doesn't make sense to me either.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: But I can even understand to keep them in the
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: floor for that long.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, I agree, But I'm just saying from I can
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: understand that someone thinks that way, not that I agree
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: or understand it, but I can from things we discuss,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: I can understand that a person could not that they would,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: but could potentially think that. I don't understand how repulsion
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: equals ecstasy. I guess those are very contradictory.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: In my mind, it was he was thinking it was
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: like a symbolic thing, And I think, who knows how
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: much time had passed after he'd done the dissection? Right,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: maybe he like did the dissection, took a little nap,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: had a snack, and then did it Like I don't know,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: No one really knows, right, only he knows Jesus.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, that is so fucked up. I feel
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: so bad for those victims.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like I just honestly just I feel like
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: bad for the family members too. I don't know. That
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: would be what I would need to recruit myself, right
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: to change my attitude? A nap and snack?
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Okay? Where Nicole food and sleep? She's good from anything?
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Well, do you need a drink? Right?
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I would need a lot more than a drink to
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: be in that position and feel better.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, anyway, let's move on here, can we move on?
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Yes? We can move on? Please, let's do Okay.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: To disguise the smell of burning flesh as he burned
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: the remains, Dennis placed a tire on the pile, because
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: then people would be smelling burning rubber, right, and once
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: everything was done burning, he would use a rake to
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: search for recognizable bones, at one point finding an intact skull,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: which he smashed pieces with his rake. Wow, And then
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: he would just like rake the garden, like this is
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: his garden. Right. Oh, I wasn't going to say anything
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: about this, but I'm just throwing it in there. So
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: I actually came across an art col where that this
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: house has now actually like been sold and like a
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: young couple lives in there and stuff, and it's like
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: been completely remodeled and redone and like looked beautiful. But
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: then like the garden, they're like growing vegetables in and stuff,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: and I don't know, it's just like I don't know
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: if I could get past that, but they had totally
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: gotten past it and just felt that it was perfect
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: and they got like the house at a good price
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: and everything.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Right, I don't know if I could morally grow vegetables
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: in there, flowers or something plants maybe, yeah.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: But like something you're eating ain't yeah, because I'm sorry,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Like the investigators, I'm sure like went like through a
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: comb through that garden. Right.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, they're gonna pull out bones, but they're not gonna
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: be able to pull out the soil.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that they would have missed or something.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Well, just the like the ash. They can't pull out
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: ash from dirt. That ash is the minerals and materials
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: from your body now leaching into the soil. Yeah, which
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: is now leaching into the even if okay, maybe grow
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: pumpkins or Halloween or something. I get that.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Don't consume it, you're consumable. Yeah, I know. I was
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: just like, that is beyond interesting that someone could just
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: get past that. I'd be curious if like many of
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: our listeners could just get past that and just like
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: grow their Yeah, I'm curious.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: It'd be some rich soil though, because of the minerals
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: from the decomposition and everything.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay, where was I here? Okay. The discussing aftermath
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: of his disposing his kills, you think many may have
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: him thinking that this is not like worth the efforts,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: like after he's now gone through this process of like
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: getting rid and disposing like this, this has to be it,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: like he has to be fucking done. But no, but no, no,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: he would strike again. Of course he would strike four
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: more times actually while living at Melrose av at this
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: one location, one victim being in January, one being in February,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: one being in April, and his final victim being on
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: September eighteenth. This final victim at Melrose At, I should say,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: being Malcolm Barlow, and if you've lost count, this would
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: be his twelfth victim. Jeez. So in reference to some
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: of these, okay, because I didn't really I'm not going
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: into much detail because lots of those in there were unidentified.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: So in reference to some of these unidentified victims, Dennis
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: would late like, this is sad. Dennis would later reflect
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: by saying, end of the day, end of the drink,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: end of a person, floorboards, back carpet replaced, and back
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: to work at Delmark Street. What Yeah, that's what he
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: wrote in this book.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Wow, like wow, what an asshole way to disassociate and
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: just make these people literally nothing to you.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: And I think it's like crazy that he was able
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: to just like continue work during this killing spree. Like
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: talk about a double life. He occasionally would call in
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: sick if he needed to deal with one of the bodies,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: but it did not seem like it crossed over much,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: which I just cannot comprehend how you could just have
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: that terrible of like a life and then just go
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: to work.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how he can be hon Yeah, because there's I
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: don't know if this is a strictly male thing, or
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: if females get this, or if any other genders get
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: this as well, but this is something that I have
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: discussed and know is very real within the male community.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: It's called post nut syndrome. Okay, okay, it's.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, where are we going with this?
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: After relieving oneself, wow, uh, you kind of come back
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: and snap back to yourself and you're just like, wow,
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: did I really just have intercourse with this person? Say,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: for example, like an X, like you all of a
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: sudden you regret going back to that ex like fuck,
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Like as soon as you're done on my word, or
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: maybe it's really weird porn that you just rub one
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: out to. I don't know, but as soon as you
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: are done, you're just regretting your choices. I'm surprised he's
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: not getting that post not syndrome.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Hmmm. I'm just trying to think. I mean, we'll go
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: into like his thoughts, but after it's done, like it
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: is almost when I think he's like really into it, right,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: like the death, and then he now has this companion,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: like a lot of it's just like his companion. So
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: he's I don't know, it's just a whole thing for him.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: And then once they raw, like he needs another companion. Yeah,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: does that make sense?
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Right? Yeah? But what I mean by like the post
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: not thing is he's not regretting taking the life.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think he is.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Because he's clearly he apparently, as you said, only thought
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: about killing them moments before.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which I don't agree, in the heat.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Of, which is very much so like when you're drunken,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: horny and you call your X situation. Yeah, so it's
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: in the heat of you're doing the action and then
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: you call the X or in his case, kill a
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: fucking human being, and then you get off on it.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: And then after you get off, he's not like, fuck,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: I just killed a person.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I think he might have been like that initially. Some
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: reports it did seem like maybe he was like that initially,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: like holy shit, what did I do? Like because the
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: first killed there was quite a break before he did again.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: But then he just like, I think the benefits of
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: him doing it outweighed everything, gotcha. So Okay, so we
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: are going to talk a little bit about Malcolm asked.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Twenty three year old Malcolm the victim had a different
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: story in that Dennis would actually call the ambulance for
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Malcolm after he discovered him slumped against a wall outside
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: his home on September seventeenth, nineteen eighty one.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: So sorry, Dennis would call an ambulance from Malcolm.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and he thought he was just like a
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: fucking superhero for doing this shit. Of course, Malcolm had
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: told Dennis the medication he was prescribed for his epilepsy
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: had caused his legs to weaken, so Dennis brought him
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: inside and called help for him. But when Malcolm was
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: released from the hospital the following day, he returned to
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Dennis's flat to thank him for his kindness.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's the mistake, right fucking there.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Dennis invited him in, where he fed him a meal
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: and drinks until Malcolm fell asleep on Dennis's coach at
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: the end of the night. Dennis was not expecting this,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: So this one, I don't think like was premeditated, but
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: felt he needed to be rid of Malcolm, and just
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: like that, he made the decision to strangle him, storing
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: his body beneath the kitchen sink for.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: The morning, felt like he needed to be rid of him.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like he had a pest fuck like this dude,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Like he came back to him right like, don't come
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: back here, I guess. Yeah. Now this is the point
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: where Dennis would have to prepare to leave Melrose have
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Summer reports say Dennis was issued in a fiction notice
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: as neighbors were starting to complain of the smell coming
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: from his suite. Other reports say the landlord was wanting
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: to do renovations and asked Dennis to leave. But both
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: of them really could go hand in hand. They're really in.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: My opinion is no way the neighbors could not smell
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: that situation going on in his suite. And I honestly
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: gets surprising that even like lasted that long. There no kidding,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: really like he had neighbors and stuff like great. I
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: feel like you'd have to be like a hermit for
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: able to be doing this.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, people are oblivious generally and will put up
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: with a lot of shit, I.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Think, but that's oblivious, that's extreme. I don't know. I
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: feel like I'm observant and I would know instantly, of
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: course you would, okay either way here I might have
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: been someone's neighbor. That's like, was a murder or something?
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Right now? Wow?
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Oh no, okay, either way, he would dispose of the
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: bodies as he did previously and move into an addict
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: flat at twenty three d Cranleigh Gardens on October fifth,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one. Being that Dennis's new home was an
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: attic flat with no access to a garden, one would
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: only hope his killing spree would come to an end,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: and it did for about five months until until March
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two, when Dennis would meet twenty three year
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: old John Howlett while drinking in a nearby pub. John
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: was lured to Dennis's new suite on the promise of
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: a continuing good time and more booze, and that's what happened.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: They continued to drink and watch a movie. This is
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: when John walked into Dennis's front room, where his bed
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: was located, and fell asleep. One hour later, Dennis attempted
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: to wake John but was unsuccessful, and he sat on
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: the edge of the bed watching him. He decided he
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: would kill him. Jeez, can you imagine just like sleeping
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: and someone's on the edge of your bread deciding They're
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: gonna kill you. H nightmares. It was quite a struggle.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: John did not mat Dennis's victim profile in that he
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: was taller, more rugged, and masculine, not the type Dennis
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: would normally go for. Within the struggle, there were times
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: John was even strangling Dennis, but in the end, though
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: he described the struggle as stressful, where he believed he
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: could get he was like going to get overpowered by John,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: he was able to get him into an unconscious state
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: and ultimately drowned him in the Bathup the fuck. Dennis
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: would be left with defensive wounds from the struggle for
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: the next week, so he was close.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: This case is fucking stressing stress.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: He controlled himself for a couple months until May hit,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: when he encountered Carl Stolder, I think, a twenty one
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: year old gay man, as he drank at the Black
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Cat Pub. As Dennis and Carl chatted, Dennis would discover
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Carl was struggling following a failed recent failed relationship. He
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: invited him back to his flat, his attic fat flat,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: you could you have a stroke, assuring him there was
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: no intention of sex. Carl drank heavily until he passed
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: out in a sleeping bag. Now, this is like my
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: worst nightmare because I actually hate the feeling of how
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: like restricting sleeping bags are, especially mummy type sleeping mix.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: I just I just hate it. So this is this
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: nightmare material for me. Carl woke to find himself being
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: strangled inside a now closed sleeping bag, with Dennis whispering
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: stay still. He then vaguely recalled hearing running water before
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: realizing he was immersed and Dennis was attempting to drowned him.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: He begged for his life, but Dennis kept submerging him
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: like holy shit, believing he has killed Carl. Dennis had
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: him sitting in his armchair before realizing there was actually
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: a thread of life left. But he actually allowed Carl
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: to regain consciousness Wow why and his strength back over
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: the following days, embracing and explaining to him that he
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: had basically brought him back to life as he had.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Carl had apparently strangled himself on the zipper of the
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: sleeping bag following a nightmare, and then he placed him
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: in cold water to bring him out of shock. What
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: that's what his story was, I don't know. They did
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: end up going their separate ways, with Dennis saying he
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: hoped that they might meet again, like he was freaking lucky.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: But then Carl did like testify at his trial, so
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: I think that he didn't believe him, but he was
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: fucking lucky, Holy shit. Like I have no idea. There
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: was actually a few reports that would say that Dennis
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: would sometimes try to like bring people back and then
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: be really upset when he couldn't. So I don't know
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: what the fuck that's about.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's weird.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: It's like really weird.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: The whole fucking case is weird as fuck.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: So there would be two more men not so lucky.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Archibald Alan aged twenty seven in September of nineteen eighty two,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: this was his fourteenth victim, and Steven Sinclair, aged twenty
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: in January of nineteen eighty three, his fifteenth victim. Dennis
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: strangled Archibald. I want to call him like Archie Archie
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: as he sat at his kitchen table eating an omelet.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: That's how this Archibald died, ruined breakfast, no shit, and
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: strangled Stephen, who was a hair and addict, after injecting
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: himself and falling asleep in Dennis's armchair. But now he
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: was living in an attic suite with no floorboards to
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: hide bodies or no access to a garden. What was
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: he doing with these bodies?
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Well was he doing with these bodies? Tell us?
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: Well, what he was doing would an heavily get him caught,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: So you really want to know. As he did on
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Melrose ap Dennis was dissecting the bodies. He was placing
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: the various dismembered parts within plastic bags and then storing
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: them in either his wardrobe, tea chest, or within a
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: jawer that was located underneath the tub. He would then
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: dispose very slowly pieces of flesh, internal organs, and smaller
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: bones of the three victims down the toilet.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: His toilet's gonna get fucking clogged.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: He was placing larger bones out with his garbage. He
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: would also go about boiling the heads of his victims
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: so that the internal contents would evaporate, removing the need
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: to dispose of the brains and the flesh and wah like,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: that's disgusting, that's disgusting.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't evaporate.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know why he was boiling shit.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it would boil it. It would like you boil
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: it to the point where it just becomes mush.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is disgusting. In the smell would be disgusting,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: wouldn't it.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: We'll just be boiled meat. Ugh, it wouldn't smell pretty,
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: that's for sure, But I mean it's okay.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: However, with the accumulation of human remains, the drains would
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: start to become claged. Other tenants were getting angry as
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: they were dealing with backed up sinks and toilets that
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: were unable to flush. On February fourth, nineteen eighty three,
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Dennis and his neighbors got together to write a letter
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: of complaint that will go to the building landlord, letting
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: them know what was happening and that the situation at
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: the property was intolerable. Dennis being actively involved in that process,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: like right in there like a dirty shirt.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Wow, really fucking himself over?
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Hey, I don't know, but then if he didn't, he'd
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: fuck himself over too.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: Maybe he just shouldn't have killed people.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: And flushed them down the toilet, like that's cool.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: I meant, just maybe he shouldn't have just killed people.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Well yes, period, but yes, but then also yeah, okay,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: you know, just just from the get go, don't kill okay,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: so the letter of complaint would have the landlord send
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: a plumber to the property. Dinah Rod employee Michael Catereron
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: responded to the plumbing complaints on February eighth. As he
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: opened the drain cover the side of the house, he
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: discovered the train was the drain was packed with flesh
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: like substance and numerous small bones. Michael reported his findings
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: to a supervisor, who arrived at dusk to investigate the situation.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: Upon his arrival, they agreed they need a better light
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: to investigate, so they would meet again in the morning.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Before they left, however, Dennis and another Tendon would discuss
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: the issue with the plumbers and what the unknown substance
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: could be. When hearing them say how similar the substance
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: appeared to human flesh, Dennis piped in, it looks to
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: me like someone has been flushing down their Kentucky Fried chicken.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: That's randomly fuck that would look nothing like this.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: That sounds like a really awkward like social encounter and
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: the office hallway by the water cooler, when like the
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: one weird employee that you work with, pipes in midway
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: and conversation things that you don't want to respond to
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: and everyone just kind of like conversation over and like,
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: oh yeah.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Goes back to work and then.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Goes back to work. That's what that just reminded me of.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Okay, So the following morning, at seven
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: point thirty, the plumbers would arrive again, but upon their
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: arrival this time that drain had cleaned. Who saw that
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: coming obviously seeming extremely suspicious to both men, and then
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: later them discovering more flesh and bones leading from the
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: drain linked to the top of the house. So we
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: didn't fully clean. They called the police. The leftover remains
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: were sent to be examined, where police revised that they
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: were in fact human, One particular piece concluded to be
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: a human neck or human neckbone that bore a ligature
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: mark fuck. Detectives soon learned that Dennis occupied the top
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: flat of the building where the human remains had been
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: flushed from. Instead of ambushing him, they decided to wait
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: for him to return home from work. When he did,
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: they introduced themselves and explained the situation to Dennis, asking
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: or with Dennis, asking why the police were so interested
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: in his drains, like why they requested access to his
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: flat and upon entering, immediately noting the foul air of
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: rotting flesh. Dennis questioning further why the police were interested
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: in his drains, to which he was informed the blockage
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: had been caused by human remains. Initially acting utterly shocked,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: stating good grief, how awful, the detectives replied with, don't
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: mess about. Where's the rest of the body and that's it.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Dennis then calmly omitted where the remainder of the body
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: could be found. Really that easy, that easy, which was
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: within two plastic bags within his wardrobe. They then asked
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: if there were any other body parts to be found,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: and Dennis responded saying it was this long story and
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: goes back a long time, but that he'd tell them
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: everything and wants to get it off his chest.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: He was then arrested, and as he was taken to
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: the police station, he was asked whether the remains in
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: his flat belonged to one or two. As he stared
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: out the window, he replied, fifteen or sixteen since nineteen
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: seventy eight.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: Fuck, I bet jaws dropped right there.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: Oh. The detective was probably just like shit, Wow, Hey,
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: now that's about all I'm going to say Dennis was
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: actively confessing to his crimes, so of course was sentenced
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: to life in prison. Like I had mentioned, a lot
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: of his victims were not able to be identified, and
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: he did later change his story to say he made
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: up three of the victims and actually had only murdered
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: twelve men. But who's to know for sure, And like,
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: who's to even know if he knows for sure? Yeah,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: he could have forgotten.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Lost count, or he could have been drunk, or he
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: could have he could have legitimately thought, oh, actually no,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: I thought I killed that person. But I did give
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: him CPR or something like that, and I did walk away.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: Or even blocked it out of his mind.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: Really, yeah, he probably doesn't know.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Dennis was initially sentenced to life in prison with a
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: minimum of twenty five years, but that was later replaced
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: by a whole life tariff to ensure he was never
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: to be released from prison good On May twelfth, twenty eighteen, however,
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: he would die from complications of a surgery at the
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: age of seventy two. He was at one point questioned
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: as to whether he had any remorse of his crimes,
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: to which he replied, I wish I could stop but
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: I couldn't. I had no other thrill or happiness. He
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: also emphasized that he took no pleasure from the act
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: of killing, but worship the art and the act of death.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: That's sad. Like I I feel bad for him, Like
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: I feel sorry for him? Is what I don't feel
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: bad for him. I feel sorry for him, you know. Yeah,
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: Like that's that's terrible and he's terrible. Like that's a
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: pretty shitty life.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is so not that this is this case
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: is not cool in any way, but there are three
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: coolish things. His autobiography did get published about a year ago,
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: titled The History of a Drowning Boy, And I think
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: he'd probably actually be like a really interesting read. There's
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: also a series made from this story titled Dez starring
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: David Tennant. Is that how you say his last name? Oh? Yeah,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: which I heard like nothing of good things about, Like
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: I really won't watch that. We have to watch that
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: and Dexter. We still haven't watched Dexter.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: It's a terrible and apparently silence of the world. Yeah,
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: it's an amazing movie.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, and this is really cool. Many of the items
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: confiscated confiscated from Dennis's Crownley Gardens address are on display.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: They are to display at a New Scotland's New Scotland
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Yards Crime Museum, including the stove Dennis boiled, the heads
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: of his final three victims, knives he had used to
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: dissect several of his victims, and the headphones he used
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: to strangle one of his victims, among other things.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: Brutal.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: I actually think that'd be interesting to see. But then
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: I guess they're kind of profiting from this crime in
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: a sense.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's a museum. It should be nonprofit.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. That's true. It's probably going to something
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: good hopefully. But yeah, that's the story. That's all I got.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: That's the story of a very very fucked up individual.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: Holy shit.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that story is wild, Like ay, no kidding that
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: I wanted to get get off of many times, Like
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: I hated it. Researching that was kind of a bitch.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Actually talking about it was fucking horrific. Holy shit.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah, so there you go. That's one of
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: the craziest ones I feel like out there.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: No kidding, Yeah, that was that was a roller coaster,
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: especially that one moment where he's having a sad time
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: being happy, Yeah, I'll just say that, or a happy
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: time being sad. I don't know.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Anyway, thank you for listening to the
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: ship show.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we appreciate you, guys.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: We totally appreciate you guys.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: Check out our socials. It's all down the description. You
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: can find merch link in the descriptions. Podcast, Instagram, Facebook,
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: or website. It's all down there. You can check it out.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Of course, Patreon as well, so you can sign up.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: You can get exclusive episodes and just see some behind
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: the scenes, some awesome stuff, an input on different episodes
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: to come.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: So many wicked things of course, someone's tail next time?
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Are friends Stay wicked