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Turning Point Series Ep1: The Day The Badge Came Off: Firefighter Joe... · Murders to Music: Crime Scene to Music Scene (Streamline Events and Entertainment)

0:22
SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Murders to Music podcast.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: My name is Aaron, I'm your host, and thank you guys so much for coming back and spending just another week with me in this show.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: So, on the show, as you guys know, the show's premise murders to music, darkness to light, helping people in their worst days, and then helping people in their brightest days.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: That has been the premise.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: Up until this point, I feel like we are weighted more towards that heavy end.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: And I think anybody that's listened to this show more than once can probably agree that the topics and the subject matter is fairly heavy.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: And that's okay because I think that was the original intent.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I don't think that was the original intent of this show, is to work through those problems.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying we're going to deviate from those completely, but what I will tell you is at some point between darkness and light, there has to be a change, a turnaround, a pivot point.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: And that is what we're going to focus on.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: I am starting off on a 10-episode series, and the name of the series is called the Turning Point Series.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: And in that, we're going to talk to various people, all different professions, from housewives and moms to doctors and lawyers or whoever else.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: And we're going to ask them a series of questions about the day in their life that the turn happened.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: There was a critical change that changed the trajectory.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: For me, as you know, it was coming out of law enforcement.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: And it was that day that I went with high blood pressure and broken ribs.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: And my life was really never the same.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Everything I knew, the the version of me that I knew was gone.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: So that's what we're going to do.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: But it's not about what happened or the trauma about what happened.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: It's about how you recovered and what you made of that.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: And I think focusing on that and focusing on that bright side of life and the healing and the recovery is really gonna change kind of the pace of this and maybe the tone.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: So we can't have a change in life until we have a story and something that got us to that turning point.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: So that's what we're gonna explore.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: The episodes are gonna be the story and then maybe some questions at the end.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: And in tonight's show, I've got Joe with me.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: And Joe is a 12-year veteran of Fire and EMS.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: Worked in upstate New York and Chattanooga, Tennessee.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: And he'll tell you his story, but one day his world changed when he got into a tragic motorcycle accident.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: And overnight, the world he knew, the best version of himself that he knew was gone.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: And we have to identify with a new life and a new version and new injuries and new handicaps.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: So, Joe, thank you so much for coming to the show.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: Tell me, what is your story?
3:08
SPEAKER_01: Hey man, so um basically I just one of those kids that grew up in a kind of an on again, off again household.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: Um was best friends with my grandfather at a young age and uh wound up losing him at like five years old.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: Um so growing up, I always used to hear stories of hey, listen, your grandfather was a firefighter, he was a Marine, he was a firefighter in the Marine Corps, like you know.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: So growing up, I was like, hey, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be a jar head or I'm gonna be a hose monkey.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's what I'm gonna be.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: Um so I finally hit, I think it was 20 years old, maybe 21 years old, and I was like, hey, I'm gonna go join the fire department.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: We were living up in Buffalo, New York area.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: Um and I found out, hey, volunteer fire firefighters were a thing there.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: So I started out there and kind of got to learn the ropes and all that stuff.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Um it was kind of funny.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: I I went into fire and I was like, man, I'm gonna go kick indoors, run into these burning buildings, all this cool stuff.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: I was like, EMS is it's just lame.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: And then uh I started working fire and I was like, man, as much as I hate people, like I really like this.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: Like I like helping people.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: So um I I branched off into EMS as well.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: So I got my fire certs and then started on my EMS certs, went to go volunteer at a uh an ambulance company ahead up there and kind of just pushed through all that.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: Um I was like, okay, cool.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: Everything was going great on that front.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: My uh my daughter's mom decided she she wanted to be with other people, but didn't want to tell me that.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: Um so I was like, okay, I moved down to Chattanooga to get away from Buffalo and kind of separate myself from the situation.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: And uh when I came down to Chattanooga, I went over to a county over here called Walker County, and I was like, man, I'm I need to be back on the fire department.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: So I went down to one of the stations in the area.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: I lived just outside of the the limitations of where like the department picked up for, and I talked to the chief, and he's like, I'll take you.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Don't make me regret it, I'll take you though.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: I was like, all right, cool.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: So uh started out with Walker County, and I found out real quick, those those boys like to burn down stuff.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: That man, that was the most fires I've ever been to in my life.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: Um but I I I loved it.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: I I learned I really got the feel for fire and loving fire there.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: Um moved back to Florida after a little bit, and um I started a cell phone repair shop, an electronic repair shop.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: I had hurt my back while I was up here in Chattanooga, so I had to find something that wasn't public service related.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: Um so I started the repair shop, I was doing really good, and we were bringing in really good money, and then uh in October of twenty I think it was twenty-two, maybe twenty-two or twenty-three, I don't remember exactly.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh, me and my wife had come back from a concert up in Jacksonville, Florida, open up the mail, and it's a letter from our landlord, and he's like, Hey, we're selling the house, you gotta get out.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, what?
6:29
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if you've seen real estate prices in Florida, it wasn't affordable, so we wound up having to move back to Chattanooga.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: So we got up here, I joined a department up here, and then uh busted my hump there.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: I I started again when I came back to Chattanooga with no certs.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: So I started from the bottom, got my fire one, fire two, my EMT, all that stuff.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I was working at I was volunteering in a department and working at two other departments.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: And then um I started my advanced EMT class because like I said, I I had a real thing for EMS.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: I loved it, it was awesome.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I planned to go to Paramedic after that.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: So um did my advanced DMT class and two weeks after graduating, um I was riding down the road and some lady was messing off on her phone and not paying attention and pulled out in front of me on my bike.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: And uh I wound up crashing and broke my right arm.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: It separated humerus from the the shoulder ball.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh broke seven ribs, seven spots in my spine, my tailbone, got a TBI, a traumatic brain injury, uh punctured a lung, and then had some other stuff bruised and some internal bleeding and stuff.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: Um that was pretty much the moment my life changed, man.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: Like everything went from you're helping everybody, you're the one that, you know, that they call when you're when you're when they're messed up, whatever, like and then uh then you're just laying there and you're like, well shit.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: I hope the guy come to get me, you know, cares as much as I do.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: Um so that came, scooped me up, took me to the hospital, and then uh spent seven days in the hospital and came home, and my wife was me and her went from like we were about to throw blows.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: Like me and her were daily going at it.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: When I wrecked, I was living in a fire station.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: It was a nightmare.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: And then um when when I wrecked, like everything changed.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: She was, you know, she came in, she was helping me clean myself and stuff like that, and you're just like, shit, I put you through hell and you're still here and you're doing all this.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: I guess I guess I need to change a few things.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: When I moved from Chattanooga down to Florida, I moved in with my dad, and uh I moved maybe an hour, hour and 15 minutes away from her, and I didn't know her at the time.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: And I guess from what she tells me, her friend was on her plenty of fish account and like swiped and was like, this dude looks cute.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: So she sent me a message and I was like, okay.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: And uh at that time I flat out told her, I was like, hey, like, I'm not looking for a relationship, everything has gone south, like I'm just trying to do man things.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: And she was like, uh-huh, no.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: So she came over, we met, and uh basically we really haven't been apart since, dude.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: Like until I moved out to the to the fire station.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: Um we went through some crazy shit.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, for hurricanes in Florida, we we had our own kid.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: We were I was helping her raise her daughter.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: Um I was battling back and forth with my exes for my son and my daughter, and then finally something came up, and my son's mom was like, Hey, um he's a boy, he needs his dad.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Okay, send him over.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: I got him.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: And then with my daughter's mom, like it finally just got to the point where we wound up getting custody her, thank God.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, but my wife the whole time has just been like, You're my kids.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna treat you like my kids.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's you if you came to my house, you couldn't tell the difference, you know what I mean?
10:27
SPEAKER_01: And that's something I kind of when I f when she first met my kids and she was already acting like that, I was like, all right, I I guess I'm not doing man things.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: We're we're gonna get married.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it's just it's weird, like you know, she encourages me to do everything, man.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we got here actually, funny enough, when we started the business, she was, I want to say six or seven months pregnant.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, she wasn't working.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: We were living in two-bedroom, like condo townhouse, whatever you want to call it.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I was working for somebody else.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: And I got an opportunity to start a business.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, we we barely we barely had money.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: And uh, I came home one day and I was like, hey, I could start a business doing cell phone repair.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: And she said, how?
11:14
SPEAKER_01: And I explained it to her, and she's like, figure we'll figure it out, do it.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, baby popped out, other kids came, like, all this stuff happened, and she's just like right there the whole time.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, that's that's just like everything I do, man.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: Like after the wreck, I've been trying to figure out, I've been trying to find my new self, you know.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: You can't can't help people the way you're used to.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, so now I've gotten into photography, and every time I turn around, she's just like, let's go get this that you need, or let's go get that that you need, or you know, hey, like whatever she keeps on my ass to make sure like I'm doing what I need to to be the best I can be.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: So let me ask you this.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: Who were you when your title was taken away prior to the wreck?
12:00
SPEAKER_00: To tell me about Joe.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was literally work, fire, and school.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: That that's all my life consisted of.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: Um I would come home from working.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: We we worked Cali 12s here.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh so usually on my two days, like I would, if I didn't have class, I'd go in, let's say we'd work Monday, Tuesday, so from 12 or from 8 to 8 Monday, and then come back 8 to 8 Tuesday.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Um I would just work a 36 instead.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: Like I would just stay the 12 hours overnight.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the days I wasn't working, like I'd leave, I'd come home, you know, eight o'clock at night, whatever.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: I'd stop by the fire station and grab our medical response vehicle and then come home and sleep and run calls.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't stop.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: I was a million miles an hour, and then you hit that day and it's just dead stop.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Would you say that being a firefighter EMT was your identity?
12:56
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: I loved my job, man.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: I woke up every day.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh me and my partner would constantly goof off with some stupid stuff.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: There'd constantly be some sort of mess going on.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: Like it just every day was a new adventure, man.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: It was awesome.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: I loved it.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: Did you ever see yourself doing anything else?
13:17
SPEAKER_01: Nah.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: I uh I talked about going into the police academy, but I really wanted to complete medic school and see how I liked working in the field under you know, as a medic first.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: Um but police was the furthest I planned on venturing at best.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: So when the uniform comes off, who are you without it?
13:41
SPEAKER_01: Well, that was the problem.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: The uniform never really came off, it just kind of switched.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: But once we finally get it off, I mean, I try to be a dad.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: And now that, you know, I think that was a big problem now that I look at it, you know.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: You spend so much time in the uniform, when you get out of the uniform, you've got to balance what's left between kids, household duties, your wife, like so.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: I think that was kind of the problem is I'd get home and I'd be like, Well, I've got enough time for the kids.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: So did you find that you had enough time for the kids and the wife?
14:15
SPEAKER_00: Or did you find that you they were getting your scraps and the leftovers?
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, I feel like the kids were getting the scraps, and my wife wasn't getting much of anything.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: Do you think that led to the almost going to blows?
14:28
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: Between that and me losing my grandmother, the yeah.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: So if so, if I if I can understand your response, when that uniform came off, who are you without it?
14:40
SPEAKER_00: You're a father, you're a husband, and you try to be the best that you can, but when you took that uniform off at the end of the day, the ones that you love the most were getting the least amount from you.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: Am I right in that synopsis?
14:55
SPEAKER_01: 100%, unfortunately.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: Describe the exact day when everything changed.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Like tell me, take me from that morning.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: What were you doing?
15:05
SPEAKER_00: What were you writing?
15:05
SPEAKER_00: Where were you going?
15:06
SPEAKER_00: What were your thoughts?
15:07
SPEAKER_00: What were your feelings?
15:09
SPEAKER_00: Walk me through that exact day when your world changed.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: Um I'd woke up, I decided I want to go get a new uh new toolbox.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: So uh brought my toolbox down to a city nearby that my buddy lives in, and I sold him my toolbox.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: I went over to Harbor Freight and grabbed a different one.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Came back, unloaded it off the trailer.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: My wife went to work, and my daughters were helping me with the toolbox.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, man, y'all are stressing me out today.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: And it was just it was my first day off after like a 36 and clinicals and everything.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: So it was really just me being stressed over that.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: I was like, screw it, I'll go out for a ride.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: That usually calms me down a bit.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: And I just went to go for a loop and went down the road, and there was the car.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh they just kind of pulled out in front of me, so I hit the ground and so I hit the ground and uh I I I don't know exactly what happened.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: There's kind of accounts from you know bystanders or whatever.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: But the first thing I remember is uh there was somebody coming up to me and they're like, Hey, you okay?
17:15
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, uh like you know, whatever.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: And all I can remember saying is like, I can't breathe.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Get this helmet off of me.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: And finally somebody was like, uh, okay, and took the helmet off, and I was like, Oh, thank God.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: And then I don't remember anything until um one of my buddies that was a sheriff's deputy comes flying down the road, uh, pulls up, and he comes up to me, and I was like, I look up and I'm like, Is that you, bud?
17:43
SPEAKER_01: He's like, Yeah, you okay?
17:45
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Don't tell my wife.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, he looks at me for a second with this dumb smile, and he's just like, buddy, she sent me here.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: What did your wife do?
17:59
SPEAKER_01: She's a dispatcher, she's a 911 dispatcher.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: She dispatched the wreck that day for Sheriff's Department, and then funny enough, the the guy that trained me, because I used to be a 911 dispatcher.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, the guy that trained me when I was at dispatch, he dispatched uh EMS to the wreck.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: And then one of my really good friends that still works there dispatched fire to the wreck.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: And then the firemen that showed up were a couple of my buddies, and then uh one of the first on scene, other than my buddy that was on the sheriff's department, was one of my assistant chiefs for my fire department.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was it was wild, man.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: So they threw me in the ambulance, took me down, and away we went.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: Seven days in the hospital.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: So there you are, laying out on the asphalt.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: You've got all these people surrounding you.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: And somewhere you said it a second ago that that is the time, that's the moment that things changed.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: What identity did you lose in that moment?
18:54
SPEAKER_01: My entire career, man.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: Every bit of my career.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: I everything I worked my ass off for.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: And how did that make you feel?
19:03
SPEAKER_01: I was pissed.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: I was pissed.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: I I I I don't even think pissed is remotely because my problem is it's not like it's not like some old lady that just didn't see me.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah, I'd still be pissed, but like you were neglectful in your duties of driving.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: Like you pulled out in front of me because you were on your cell phone.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: That's wild.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: Did you know in that moment when you were laying there on the ground that your career was over and your life had changed?
19:35
SPEAKER_01: No.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: I was laying in the hospital bed and uh the doctor looked at my arm and he's like, Your arm's broken.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, quit playing with me, doc.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: Just put it back where it's supposed to go and let's go.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: I gotta go back to work in two days.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, No, dude, like your arm is broken.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, just put it back together.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: I gotta go.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: Like I I work in two days.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, No.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: So what was the moment you realized that your life had changed and your career was over?
20:05
SPEAKER_00: When was that?
20:07
SPEAKER_01: It was kind of like a slow recognization, I guess.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Like looking back at it, I can pinpoint when it had like when I when it changed, but like going through it, it was kind of like a slow process of like just realizing things.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: Like, I can only lift my right arm up to my eyeball level at best, and some days I can't even get it there.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's like you go through PT and they're like, Yeah, you're gonna get better, you're gonna get better.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: You know, you go talk to the doctors, and the doctors are like, Oh, you're progressing so great, and then like you hit that like four to six month mark, and they're like, This is where you live now, bud.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: And is that when you recognize that it wasn't gonna be the same?
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the doctor came in the room and he's like when my first follow-up, he was like, Hey, um we can probably get you back to EMS.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: I don't think we're gonna get back get you back to fire.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: And then progressively, as he saw like the progression, he's like, neither, bud.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: What was the first 90 days like uh emotionally and mentally for you after having that conversation, recognizing that your life was changing?
21:20
SPEAKER_01: It it was hell.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: Tell me about that.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: It it it just sucked, man.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: It was hell.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Like you you start to realize, you know, I don't know how much you know about fire and EMS training, but like the classes aren't short.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: Like these aren't just an eight-hour class and you're done.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, hell, EMS is even worse when it comes to classes.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: You spend so much time between that and clinicals, like you basically become a family with your classmates.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's like you you go through all this and then you get to that point where you're like, I wasted all that fucking time.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: And then you really start to realize you're like once like all the people stop calling you, stop caring about you, just stop checking up on you, you're like, Gotcha.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: So, all you people that I was putting my time and effort into don't mean shit.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: But my family that's back at home that's been waiting for me, I've put no time and effort into, and that just kind of what was it like emotionally for you coming to those realizations?
22:20
SPEAKER_00: And mentally.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: For me, I can tell you that there was some a lot of mental stuff going on, a lot of tug-of-wart and pain and you know, confusion and all of that.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Tell me about that in you.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it was hell, dude.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Like it it really was.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: Um you start to realize all this stuff, and you just mentally you're like, well, if I'm not that, then what am I?
23:07
SPEAKER_01: Like that was my identity, that was me as a person, that's what I did.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, if I'm not that, then what am I?
23:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: And then you just you start to realize everything.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: It it puts you in a dark fucking place, man.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: Any suicidal thoughts?
23:25
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Any attempts?
23:35
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes what you don't say speaks louder than what you say.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man, I get it.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: I've been there as well, bro.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: I get it.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: It's not about me though, it's about you.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: What scared you the most about your future is you were looking down the barrel of your future.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: Not knowing how I was going to provide for my family like I have been.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, my wife's always been here to be supportive.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: She's always been here to make sure the house is taken care of, stuff like that.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: And then like when I wasn't able to provide financially, she'd step up and take care of it.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
24:11
SPEAKER_01: Like when we closed down the business, I trans transitioned into dispatch.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, so she was working at Amazon.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: Um so like just the the not knowing, like how like I'm providing for him now, and then you this happens, and you're like, how the fuck do I do this now?
24:31
SPEAKER_01: Like I've half uh an arm and a half, you know what I mean?
24:34
SPEAKER_01: Like I if I stand for too long, I'm fucked.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: If I sit for too long, I'm fucked.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, what job do you get with that?
24:42
unknown: Yeah.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: That's a huge concern, especially for us men.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: We're providers.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's you know, we wouldn't be doing the jobs that we do in first responders, law enforcement, fire, EMT.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: We wouldn't be sacrificing our lives and our families and the ones that love us the most, like you said a second ago, that ultimately we have no time for.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: We wouldn't be sacrificing them if it wasn't an inherent need to help others and and to provide for our family.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: We sacrifice our family to provide for them.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: And if you think about that, that's kind of weird.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, but we literally sacrifice them so we can put food on the table for them.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: And as a man, looking down the barrel of not being able to provide or not understanding because you've lost your entire identity, that is a really shitty place to be.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: And it's not the identity, it's the world you know best.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: It's the relationships you have, the language that you speak, the commonalities in your profession that you are now a master and expert of, and now that's gone, and you're like, what the what the hell still what I don't know how to do anything else?
25:49
SPEAKER_00: How do my skills relate to the real world?
25:52
SPEAKER_00: You know?
25:53
SPEAKER_00: Um can you relate to that?
25:56
SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately.
25:57
unknown: Yeah.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: And it's hard to like it makes it hard to talk to people, man.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, you you start trying to talk to people that haven't been in that in that industry or that area, and you know, things that you find hilarious, they find crude and you know, absurd and stuff, and you're like, really?
26:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: You you mentioned you mentioned something a second ago I want to I want to go back and touch on because it was pretty influential in my life.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: And I was actually just at therapy this afternoon, and we were talking about this exact subject.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: So I'll I want to hear from you, and then I'll tell you, uh, I'll reflect on it for you.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: You said a second ago that the people you worked with and went to the academy with that were your brothers and sisters out there in the career field, uh, eventually they stopped calling, they stopped checking, and you felt like you meant nothing to them and it was all shit.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Expand upon that for me.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: That's the crazy part, man.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: Like my partner from EMS, she still comes around.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: She's she's like a pain in the ass sister.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: Like some days I'm ready to kill her, other days I'm like okay.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: She's she's always been around, she still comes around.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: Um my classmates still check on me.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, some of my classmates have called me knowing I do photography and asked me to do photos for them, which is really cool.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: Um my classmates as a whole have have been really awesome, but like my fire department kind of turned on me.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh stop checking on me, whatever you want to call it.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: And that was kind of that was kind of painful because we went like me and that entire department went through some shit.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: Um the people from my EMS department, um, some of them will reach out.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: Most of them, like, if I reach out to them, they'll they'll talk, you know, we'll talk and stuff like that.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, other than that, like it's just kind of I got dumped by the fire department.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I hear you, man.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: You know, the same thing happened to me coming out.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, law enforcement, uh, all those guys that I was solving murders with, and you know, we were in intense, we were a very busy department, very busy homicide unit.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: And all those people, I left the police department and got my partner's a female.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: She and I remain in contact to this day, and I agree they're kind of like uh, you know, a stepsister.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: Some days you hate them, some days you love them.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm sure she feels the same about me.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: But when I left the police department, nobody checked on me for 18 months.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: The only phone, the only phone call I got was when they asked me, my lieutenant asked me to bring my car back so it could be serviced.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Other than that, nobody called to check and say, hey, how are you doing?
28:43
SPEAKER_00: And for me, it was PTSD and mental health stuff, and that's literally why cops put guns in their mouth, right?
28:50
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was rough.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: But hindsight being 2020, um hindsight being 2020, I truly believe it was divine intervention.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: Because had God not forced that gap or that space between me and my people, I would have probably had a lot harder time recovering.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, an alcoholic that says, I'm not gonna drink or I can't drink because I have liver issues shouldn't go hang out at the bar.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: And at the time I didn't understand it.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: At the time, I thought I was being abandoned and abused, and we went through some shit together and they don't care.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, but hindsight, I see it as a necessary gap, a necessary break from them, because if not, I wouldn't have been able to heal and I wouldn't have been able to gain ground.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: So whether I'm right or wrong, at least that's how I've justified it in my mind.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: Does that make any sense?
29:48
SPEAKER_01: No, for sure.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: It it definitely makes sense.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: Um it's just hard to understand because like so where I was where I was EMS at, um, there was two of our stations that were in fire stations.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: Like two of our ambulance stations were in fire stations.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: The other two were just like off their own EMS station thing.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: So like uh my truck was in a fire station, so we would be on with a fire crew and stuff like that.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: And like, dude, I still hear from the guys from there.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: But not the fire department that I was dedicating all my time to for free.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: Doesn't it suck when uh you realize that uh what you loved so much doesn't love you near as much?
30:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, man.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: Let me ask you this, bro.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh, what was the first sign that rebuilding your life was possible outside of the fire department at EMS?
30:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh funny enough.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: When I lived in Chattanooga, um, I started getting into photography.
30:49
SPEAKER_01: I have a buddy Aaron, he kind of took me under his wing, showed me photography.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: I was just like, man, like, cool, I appreciate it.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: And he was a he was a dope photographer.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: He kind of got the shit out of the stick too.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, funny enough, photographer, his he's got something wrong with his visual nerves.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so now he can't do photography.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: But, anyways, um, he showed me a bunch of stuff, and then I moved a bunch, and then got with my wife, and never really touched my cameras, and I sold them.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: A couple years ago, my mom bought me a new Nikon camera for Christmas, and I think I took like 200 photos on it at like up until I want to say about August of last year.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: At most 200 photos.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I was like, screw it, I got this camera.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: Let's let's go mess around with it.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: And uh, I put up a post on Facebook, like, hey, anybody want pictures of their cars or whatever on my big motorhead?
31:47
SPEAKER_01: And somebody hit me up and was like, Hey, can I get a picture or a couple pictures of my bike?
31:52
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, sure.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: Went to downtown Chattanooga and I took a couple pictures, came back, and everybody went nuts over these pictures.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: And then um I went to go send in one, I went to go send in one of the pictures to Pandora European Motorsports, which is a like a motorcycle shop here, and uh be like, hey, look at this picture I took of this Ducati.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: And apparently the guy beat me to it already and sent it to them.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's cool.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I was like, so it wound up getting featured in one of their adverts, and at that moment I was like, the first time I picked this camera back up and I did this.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: Alright.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: A new life is possible.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: And now you're doing photography for what?
32:35
SPEAKER_00: You said weddings?
32:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh I do, I mean, I'll shoot almost anything.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: Like I do cars, um, you know, family pictures, whatever.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, but the big two things that I've been doing lately has been weddings and con and uh like band slash concert stuff.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: Nice man.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's one band.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: Um there's a band called One for the Road.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: They're a country slash southern rock kind of band.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: And um they did a really cool cover of a Whiskey Myers song that I liked.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: And I noticed they were close to me, so I reached out to them and I was like, hey, let me come take some pictures for you guys.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: And the lead singer was like, dude, come on.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: So we really hit it off, me and the whole band.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: And I actually just got back from North Carolina uh two days ago, two or three days ago, from uh going to a concert with them and shooting photos and meeting some cool people, dude.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: That's so cool, man.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: Isn't it awesome how when one door closes, another one opens?
33:35
SPEAKER_00: And we do this stuff for the relationships, right?
33:39
SPEAKER_00: We do this for the relationships and the impact we can have in people's lives, and it's pretty cool to see that on the other side we can still have impact, we can still build relationships, it just looks differently.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's way cool.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: So, how has the loss of your identity, the loss of your career ultimately reshaped you and your family?
34:02
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's made things a lot better.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Me and my wife very rarely argue at all anymore.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I have a lot more time with my kids now.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, don't get me wrong, it still gets hectic now and then with the photography stuff.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Like, I wasn't home all weekend, I had to go down out to North Carolina.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, but like other than that, like everything is great.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: Good man.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: So ultimately, while it sucks going through it, ultimately it's been a positive experience.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: I want to say that.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: On the family side.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: On the family side.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: On the family side, like, yeah, I've definitely got so I got closer with my wife, I got closer with my kids.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's a couple friends that I've grown really, really close with, the ones that I'm doing the podcast with, and a couple more.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: Um but the downside of this is now my wife's working 80, 90 hours a week.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: So how much do I really get to see her?
34:58
SPEAKER_00: True that.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: You know, how much do my kids really get to see her?
35:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're still stri you know, scraping by trying to find ways to pay bills now, and it's like, how are we gonna do this?
35:10
SPEAKER_00: What do you see in your future?
35:12
SPEAKER_00: Where do you see yourself going?
35:13
SPEAKER_00: What do you see yourself doing?
35:14
SPEAKER_00: What are you able to do?
35:17
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I can sling a camera, I guess.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: There's some good money in wedding photography, bro.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: There is, but it's competitive, man.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: Is it competitive where you're that's the problem is every every single mom, every mom that's stuck at home, soccer mom, whatever, gets a camera and they're just like, I'm a photographer now, and then you go look and you're like, stop charging anything for those photos, let alone thirty dollars.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: Killing the market.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: Are you able to go back to work?
35:48
SPEAKER_00: Like, uh.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: What's your disability look like?
35:52
SPEAKER_01: Huh?
35:52
SPEAKER_00: Do you have have you been given a disability?
35:55
SPEAKER_01: Not yet.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, I had to wait for the one-year mark, which was that appointment was I think the January 8th, 7th or 8th.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: So I just got everything, just started that whole process.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, it between the the not being able to sit, the not be able being able to stand the arm crap, the anxiety, the PTSD, like you name it.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what what about anxiety and PTSD?
36:21
SPEAKER_00: We haven't spoken about that.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: What's going on there?
36:23
SPEAKER_01: That sucks.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: It's not fun.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not at all, man.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: You you're like, um it's weird, man.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: You go from you go from like, okay, you can just walk into any situation.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, me and my partner have gotten into some crazy shit, and you just walk in, you're like, I'm gonna handle it.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: And then after like going through that career field and then not being able to be in control anymore, and shit like that, um, then you realize like I'm not in control anymore, and it kind of fu it kind of freaks you out.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: So, like, we went up to Kentucky to see my wife's family a few weeks ago, and her her dad's cutting uh like a tree log down with a chainsaw, and I'm just like watching and looking to see who's wearing belts just in case.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: And like looking for that quick, quick way to get out, you know what I mean?
37:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that sucks, man.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: It does suck.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: Are you doing any kind of therapy or anything?
37:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh, when we can afford it.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: It's tough.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: Are there any grants or or anything in your area for first responders?
37:30
SPEAKER_00: I doubt it.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: You may want to look into it.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: In our area, we have grants that are um nonprofit grants for first responders to seek therapy, especially in that PTSD job-related type stuff.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it may be out there for you.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't aware of it until my therapist told me about it.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'll have to look into that for sure.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but just food for thought, man.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: Let me ask you this.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna we're gonna wrap this up, but is there anything that I haven't asked or we haven't spoken about that you want people to know about?
37:59
SPEAKER_00: About you, we're gonna talk about your podcast in a minute, but about this topic, is there anything that uh you want people to know?
38:06
SPEAKER_01: Stay the hell off your phone when you're driving, pay attention to the road.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: And for the people that are currently first responders, you know, you got to realize one day that goes away, and the only people that are gonna be there is a couple good friends and your family.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: So definitely put the time into that.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Beautifully said, man.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: Let me ask you this for you, this big picture, this whole big thing, what was the exact moment that the tide began to turn for you and things started to look better?
38:40
SPEAKER_01: Probably that day I was slinging my camera downtown Chattanooga.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: I I was having a lot of fun.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: I was definitely in pain, but I was having fun, you know, just kept going and realizing like I could actually probably do something with this.
38:54
SPEAKER_00: Way cool.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: It kind of gives uh kind of gives hope and inspiration.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: It it you'll find something.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's life after first responders, right?
39:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, and the skills you have are really are transferable to other things.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: So tell me about your podcast, bro.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: You were saying your podcast, and it's fairly new, but you're already getting like viral on TikTok or the Tiki Talk, whatever it is.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: Tell me about that, man.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: What do you got going on?
39:17
SPEAKER_00: And where can people find you?
39:19
SPEAKER_01: So we're on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Spotify, and we're working on getting Apple Podcasts up.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, but man, we just me and a couple buddies that that kind of just I don't know.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: When I um when I got into my rec, I would just get bored and my mind would wander, and I'd just start texting them stupid stuff, man.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: Just dumbest questions ever.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, what's your favorite type of chicken wing, or like all sorts of stupid stuff, man.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: And uh I was like, we should do a podcast.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, we would literally scream at each other in my house, and my wife would just be dying laughing.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, She can't she can't be the only one that finds this funny.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: What's the name of your podcast?
40:05
SPEAKER_01: Certified Bad Opinions.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful, yeah.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: So uh go ahead.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: No, go ahead, bro.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um we just released episode five today, the full episode.
40:16
SPEAKER_01: The shorts are all over.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: We had one short arguing about the best burger, like the best fast food burger that popped off and went viral.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: We're probably at 150,000 views on it right now, which is awesome.
40:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it doesn't sound like a lot, but when we're on episode four and we're doing that, I'm like, this is cool.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: Like, people find this amusing.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: That's way cool, bro.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: And how often do you guys release?
40:40
SPEAKER_01: So we release shorts every day.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh we really well, I mean, so the thing is, dude, the whole reason we started this is we live in a crazy world, right?
40:50
SPEAKER_01: Everybody wants to argue, bicker, yell, scream about everything, man.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: Everybody's just so negative all the time.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: So if we give them something to laugh at, maybe it'll lighten them up a little bit.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: Lighten up Francis.
41:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: If they want to laugh at us being idiots, come on, man, I'll be the idiot.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: Just have a good laugh.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: Good for you, man.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: So, and that's that's all it is, dude.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: So we have a grand time with it, and it's awesome.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: Certified bad opinions, right?
41:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, love it, love it, love it.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, Joe, dude, I have really have uh enjoyed getting to know you and hearing your story, and I appreciate your vulnerability of being willing to come out and tell, you know, thousands of strangers your story, and somebody listening to this can relate.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: You and I are not the only two people in this world that can relate to this story.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, so thank you so much.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for the honesty.
41:43
SPEAKER_00: And bro, I am literally a phone call away.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: I'll give you my number when we're done.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: And if you need anything 24-7 and I think you know what I'm talking about, call me.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: All right, brother.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: All right, dude.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: So you stick around, and for everybody else out there listening, hey, if you guys want to get a hold of Joe, feel free to email me at murders the number two music at gmail.com.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: Murders2music at gmail.com, you can leave a message or a comment on Spotify or Apple Music, give it a five star review.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: Love you, love you, love you, you guys.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: That is a Murders2Music podcast.