Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / Addiction, a hit and run, and prison - The Ginjer Wulff Story

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Addiction, a hit and run, and prison - The Ginjer Wulff Story · Nightmare Success In and Out

• 0:01
  What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
• 0:04
  Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy. Welcome to the Nightmare Success
• 0:07
  In and Out podcast, where we explore how to overcome your
• 0:10
  fears and nightmares that set yourself free.
• 0:13
  We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
• 0:16
  Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
• 0:20
  These stories can be inspiring, sometimes.
• 0:23
  Sad. There's some humor, but
• 0:25
  hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something that'll
• 0:28
  help you knock down some of the prisms you built up in your own
• 0:31
  mind. All right.
• 0:35
  And I'm success in and out listeners, welcome back.
• 0:38
  Welcome back. I'm excited.
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  I've got and and for those listening to the show.
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  subscribe, Comment. Big deal, helps the show.
• 1:00
  I've got a great guest. Ginger Wolf.
• 1:04
  Ginger Wolf. Fascinating story.
• 1:06
  Because, I mean, it's when I was talking to her on the phone the
• 1:11
  other day, it was like one thing and then another thing and then
• 1:14
  how's she going to survive this and how she's going to survive
• 1:16
  that? And then how does she get out of
• 1:18
  this and what happens then? It's a crazy story, but she
• 1:24
  struggled with addiction, as a lot of people do.
• 1:28
  And her nightmare was as she got behind the wheel of a vehicle
• 1:32
  while she was under the influence and it resulted in a
• 1:35
  hit and run accident and she was sentenced to Florida State
• 1:39
  Prison for the incident. And you know Ginger's got a lot
• 1:43
  of life stories, including, as I was reading about this and
• 1:47
  watching the Ian Bick show, an inappropriate relationship with
• 1:50
  the correctional officer, which I can't wait to find out about
• 1:52
  that. But she's gotten into acting and
• 1:56
  modeling. She's she's travels all over the
• 1:58
  place of it's crazy how far and what wide she goes telling her
• 2:02
  story, trying to help people through telling her story.
• 2:06
  I can't wait to unpack all this. But before we do, I want to
• 2:09
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  success sent you ginger welcome in and and as we sit here as we
• 3:04
  sit here ginger you are at a charging station with your
• 3:09
  Tesla. As we are doing, our interview
• 3:14
  is, and it's what takes about 45 minutes to to charge that Tesla
• 3:18
  up. Yeah.
• 3:21
  Yeah, So and Auto Plaza Direct also does that kind of stuff.
• 3:25
  They go out and find electric cars.
• 3:28
  In fact, like Don Davis was driving an electric car the
• 3:31
  other day when I saw him. So Ginger, you do travel all
• 3:37
  over the place. We were just talking about that.
• 3:39
  Where are some of the places you've been in the last few
• 3:41
  weeks? The.
• 3:44
  Last few weeks, Arkansas, California, basically Southern
• 3:49
  California. Before that it was in Destin.
• 3:52
  A few weeks before that it was in New York, you know, a month
• 3:55
  ago it was in Colorado couple weeks before that.
• 4:00
  And you're, I mean we're you're traveling around, you're in the
• 4:05
  acting business trying out and and doing things for.
• 4:10
  In fact, I think you said you were going to audition for a
• 4:12
  movie after we get done with our interview here.
• 4:16
  So Ginger, can you can you walk us back into what little Ginger
• 4:22
  was like growing up as a kid and worlds you were living in?
• 4:25
  Because when we were talking on the phone, I was just in awe of
• 4:29
  the fact of what you had to go through as growing up as a kid.
• 4:34
  I mean, so I felt like I had a pretty normal childhood up until
• 4:38
  I got, you know, a little older. You know, I when I was probably
• 4:44
  like 10 years old, I realized that my family wasn't like other
• 4:47
  families in the way of like, toxicity.
• 4:51
  There was a lot of, like, verbal abuse, mental abuse.
• 4:55
  My parents had trauma that they never worked through, they never
• 4:58
  dealt with and it really affected who they were as
• 5:02
  people, you know? Was your How many siblings did
• 5:09
  you have with you in this world that you were in?
• 5:11
  So I had two older brothers. One was six years older than me.
• 5:14
  One was seven years older than me.
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  OK, so you the you were the baby of the family.
• 5:18
  Yes. So when you when you said you
• 5:22
  you you've kind of found out around 10 years old that the
• 5:24
  toxics that you had this toxic environment, was it by going and
• 5:31
  being around other friends houses and spending the night
• 5:36
  and that type of thing? Or was it just you were like,
• 5:38
  holy shit, this is really messed up?
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  I think it was. I just had this deep sense of
• 5:45
  other people don't have, like other other parents don't treat
• 5:51
  their kids this way. I had a lot of like core beliefs
• 5:54
  on, you know, what a parent should and shouldn't be.
• 5:57
  He has, you know, a young child that had never been a parent.
• 6:01
  So I think it it, you know, once I just looked at the family
• 6:05
  system, I just, it was kind of like looking at a drug addict
• 6:10
  from the outside and not why can't you just be normal?
• 6:13
  Why can't you just be normal, right?
• 6:17
  And I did both parents. Work.
• 6:20
  Yeah, but my dad owned his own business.
• 6:22
  My mom was actually disabled. She fell and broke her back when
• 6:25
  I was like 2. So most of my memories of my mom
• 6:28
  is like, not, I don't really remember spending a lot of time
• 6:32
  with her as a small kid. I know that, like they had me,
• 6:35
  like they never lost custody of us.
• 6:38
  There was never, they never physically abused us.
• 6:42
  It was more of, I watched a lot of verbal abuse between my
• 6:47
  parents, a lot of like shaming, a lot of, like narcissism on one
• 6:53
  side. And then basically them just
• 6:54
  reliving situations that I know that they had experienced as
• 6:58
  children, so. Is is is the other part of your
• 7:03
  world? Because I guess if some of you
• 7:05
  you know, you'd be at home. What was your school life like?
• 7:09
  School was great for me. I was a really strong student.
• 7:12
  I read a lot as a child, so I never, I never had a hard time
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  in school. I really enjoyed it because it
• 7:20
  was a reprieve from home, because I got praise at school
• 7:24
  for, you know, being able to do what I was asked to do.
• 7:29
  So that's you kind of thrived in that environment being out of
• 7:31
  the house and being at the school and and and being a good
• 7:35
  student, being recognized by. I mean, did you have teachers
• 7:39
  and things that kind of helped you along?
• 7:41
  Yeah, yeah, for sure I was. I always went to public school.
• 7:45
  But, like, I still, to this day credit some of my high school
• 7:49
  teachers for, like, me basically being alive because I had
• 7:54
  somebody to talk to about things.
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  And like, I was super scared as a teenager.
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  I never wanted anybody to, like, call CPSI, didn't want the
• 8:04
  police to come to the house. At one point, my guidance
• 8:07
  counselor actually called the police, like, right when I was
• 8:10
  supposed to graduate because I showed up like the day before
• 8:12
  graduation. I was so sick.
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  I couldn't, like, stand up. And, you know, I couldn't
• 8:16
  function throwing up everywhere. I just couldn't even have a
• 8:18
  conversation with me. But I was only one of my family
• 8:21
  to actually graduate. So even though I'd missed like
• 8:24
  all the school my senior year, I had a scholarship that was
• 8:26
  academic and was getting, you know, I was going to graduate, I
• 8:29
  was going to do diploma, so I wanted to be there.
• 8:31
  I really should have been in the hospital.
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  And she basically called the police and told the police to go
• 8:36
  out there to make sure that I knew that whether or not they
• 8:39
  wanted to take me to the hospital, that I had the right
• 8:41
  to go and be treated whether they got the bill or not.
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  And what was the situation? Ginger with you talked about
• 8:48
  this, but being sick of me? Yeah, I had a heat stroke like
• 8:52
  JROTC camp and the summer before I hit my scene here.
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  I'd also experienced trauma a couple years before that that
• 9:03
  had never been dealt with or talked about.
• 9:05
  So I don't know, there was, there was a lot of confusion on
• 9:11
  what was actually going on. But my symptoms were essentially
• 9:14
  like I started having chronic kidney issues.
• 9:17
  I started throwing up a lot and they they told me like I had to
• 9:20
  go to the hospital from like ROTC camp.
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  They told me like you had a stroke, you need to like you had
• 9:25
  a heat induced stroke. Like you had all these things
• 9:29
  change in your body like you overheated your car and
• 9:31
  continued to drive and drive and drive.
• 9:33
  Like you need to take time off of work and you do this.
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  And I was like, yeah, I'm not going to do that.
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  And then I started having these medical issues where I'd throw
• 9:41
  up. I had chronic stomach pain.
• 9:43
  I had started having like really bad body pains and I would cycle
• 9:47
  in and out of the emergency room essentially because my parents
• 9:50
  would have. What would they say?
• 9:51
  What would the people in the emergency room say?
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  It was kind of like the same thing over and over where they'd
• 9:58
  treat the symptoms, you know, and then they would do CAT
• 10:02
  scans, Mris, and they'd say, like sometimes I'd be in, like
• 10:06
  mild kidney failure, mild Lib liver failure because I'd been
• 10:09
  sick for, you know, a week without medical treatment.
• 10:16
  You know, it was a lot of you need to go see a specialist, you
• 10:19
  need aftercare, you know, the emergency room.
• 10:22
  They're legally required to make sure that you're OK.
• 10:24
  And I think they did the best job that they could.
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  You know, I was like 17, about a couple weeks shy of being 18
• 10:30
  years old, kind of like at the height of this senior in high
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  school who had been, like, totally healthy prior to this
• 10:38
  heat stroke incident, Right. So they had theories, You know,
• 10:41
  eventually they took my gallbladder out.
• 10:43
  You know, when I was a couple years later, they told me I had
• 10:46
  something called gastroparesis, which basically is paralysis of
• 10:49
  the stomach. And you, you throw up, it's
• 10:51
  almost like catching food poisoning, like over and over
• 10:54
  because your stomach doesn't like, process things normally.
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  I honestly don't know if any of the diagnosis were accurate.
• 11:00
  I know I still struggle with, like, nausea and vomiting
• 11:03
  issues. It's not nearly as bad.
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  I know. I still struggle with chronic
• 11:07
  pain. There's like lupus and stuff in
• 11:09
  my mom's family and cancer and like weird stuff like that, but
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  they never actually found any of that in me.
• 11:17
  If you were, you know what I mean.
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  And so So what happened to you, Ginger, after you graduated from
• 11:23
  high school? What was your next step?
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  I mean, theoretically, I was supposed to go to college and
• 11:29
  then I took time off because I was sick all the time.
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  Like, I missed 135 days of my senior year of school.
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  We were only in school for 155 days that year because that was
• 11:38
  the year of, I think Jean hits in Augustine.
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  So we have like a week off of school or something from it.
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  But either way, because I graduated 2005, but so I felt
• 11:49
  like, well, dude, like I might that might have flew in in high
• 11:53
  school, that's not going to ride on a scholarship's not going to
• 11:56
  ride in big boy school. You know, I was accepted to
• 12:00
  FSUI, went out there and checked it out for a couple days And my
• 12:05
  dad kind, they ended up in a situation where they thought
• 12:09
  they were going to permanently end up with my brother's skids,
• 12:11
  my middle brother's skids. And they kind of freaked out.
• 12:14
  My dad overreacted and I felt like I should kind of be home
• 12:17
  with them. Plus I was kind of scared to be
• 12:20
  off of my own because I was having these medical issues and
• 12:22
  I didn't have any money. And, you know, it just seemed
• 12:25
  like a failure waiting to happen.
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  So I kind of just hung around Saint Augustine and I didn't
• 12:32
  really do a whole lot with my life.
• 12:34
  I was cycling in and out of the emergency room a lot for I would
• 12:38
  say, the next two years, you know, I started how?
• 12:40
  Did you how did you fall into the addiction part of things?
• 12:44
  Basically that way was, you know every time I go to the emergency
• 12:48
  room, I'd be having these chronic pains they give me you
• 12:51
  know started with the Zofran, it started with different stomach
• 12:56
  medicines, Reglan, stuff like that to help.
• 12:58
  Nothing helped. Started giving me opioids IV and
• 13:02
  then basically once I hit I to where I was old enough, you know
• 13:06
  to where as a legal and adult, you know I was old enough for
• 13:08
  the state of Florida to go get pills.
• 13:09
  They immediately referred me out and it made sense to me because
• 13:15
  it was cheaper than a specialist And I'm like they kept saying,
• 13:18
  well this medicine will work you'll feel better.
• 13:21
  And when I would go to the emergency room, they would give
• 13:23
  you these medicines. I felt a lot better.
• 13:25
  So it's like they know what they're talking about.
• 13:27
  This works, you know, and then within I would say a couple.
• 13:33
  Of years. But Tinder, did you feel like
• 13:35
  you were getting addicted? Or was it just like, I'm just
• 13:37
  taking this medicine because that's what they're telling me
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  to do and I'm supposed to feel better with it?
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  So I woke up on my 18th birthday with my first sign of
• 13:44
  withdrawal. Because I'd cycled in and out of
• 13:46
  the emergency room so much, I didn't have any take home
• 13:49
  prescriptions at that point. But I didn't know what I was
• 13:53
  experiencing. I thought I had the flu because
• 13:54
  my birthday is like two days after Christmas and it took me a
• 13:59
  while and my brother insisting that hey, you're given, you
• 14:03
  know, getting a lot of meds lately like you're and my
• 14:05
  brother already had an Oxy problem at this point.
• 14:08
  I didn't really understand he. Knew that.
• 14:10
  You kind of knew that. I knew he was going through
• 14:14
  something with drugs. I didn't understand what Oxy
• 14:18
  dependency looked like. Opioid dependency I should say,
• 14:24
  but it and. That time period that you're
• 14:26
  talking about was when everything was at its height.
• 14:29
  Yeah, it's 2005. So, you know, it was kind of, I
• 14:33
  just happened to be the right, you know, the right demographic
• 14:37
  and with the right issues for doctors to think that it was a
• 14:41
  viable solution for me. And then like I said, when I had
• 14:44
  relief, you know, it made sense, I guess, to everybody to
• 14:48
  continue to give me the only thing that seemed to give me any
• 14:51
  relief. Mm hmm.
• 14:55
  So when you are going through this cycling of being sick and
• 14:59
  taking, you know, getting addicted to these opioids, what
• 15:03
  what's going on around you? Are you, have you gotten into a
• 15:07
  job or are you in a relationship?
• 15:09
  Like what's happening? So in the I had two jobs while I
• 15:16
  was in high school. I worked at a toy store and then
• 15:18
  I worked for Polo Ralph Lauren and I actually ended up working.
• 15:23
  I quit one of them and worked at a restaurant for a while too.
• 15:25
  So I always had a job. I started working.
• 15:28
  Yeah I had a job when I was 13 so it was never that I was
• 15:32
  unemployed but it it came to a point where I was oh I went from
• 15:36
  being an amazing, dependable awesome employee to like you
• 15:41
  could count on me to call out or to come in and work for a couple
• 15:44
  hours and then not be able to complete the shift because I
• 15:46
  would get sick and need to go. So and again I I personally
• 15:51
  believe looking back on it that the opiates contributed to that.
• 15:55
  I also this might sound crazy. I still think that there's a
• 15:58
  small part of my brain that when I get physically, I'll where,
• 16:02
  like my muscles seize up and I'm nauseous and I'm throwing up
• 16:06
  where like I I have to ask myself, like, is my brain making
• 16:12
  this worse than it actually is because it thinks it's going to
• 16:15
  get some opioids, you know? And I haven't had opioids,
• 16:19
  except for a surge out of surgery where I had a bone graft
• 16:23
  to get my I got implants. Those look great.
• 16:26
  For those on YouTube, you can see Ginger's teeth.
• 16:29
  Yeah, they look like. What do you mean?
• 16:31
  Ginger was a nice. 4. Nice teeth.
• 16:35
  But yeah, I I had to get a bone graft because I had when I was
• 16:39
  in the 1st grade, we went to Busch Gardens and I got shoved
• 16:42
  into a pole and my parents that I could chip both of my teeth.
• 16:45
  My parents got the root canal and I never got like permanent
• 16:49
  fillings or crowns put on because they didn't have
• 16:51
  insurance. So I basically had temporary
• 16:54
  fillings in the back for like 10 years and then finally the work
• 16:57
  disintegrated. So the teeth were basically
• 17:01
  hollow and the bone was taking the force of the impact, so I
• 17:05
  had bone loss in my face. Sounds horrible, yeah.
• 17:09
  I was only like 2 years sober when I went through this.
• 17:13
  Gosh. So they gave me like they said,
• 17:17
  they gave me 6 times, even I'm Dilaudid, that they'd ever given
• 17:19
  anybody else. I woke up while they were sewing
• 17:21
  my face shut and I'm two years sober in this at this point.
• 17:25
  Well. Yeah, it was.
• 17:28
  But other than that I had, I haven't had any opiates or
• 17:31
  opioids in a long time. So, you know, to eat.
• 17:35
  So for me it's like, dude, it's been, you know, eight years.
• 17:38
  Like I still have to ask. My it's a long time is that?
• 17:41
  After like. Yeah, but that's a long time.
• 17:45
  I mean, so let's let's take a step back though, because as you
• 17:48
  were walking through all this, it was when we talked the other
• 17:53
  day. It was.
• 17:54
  It almost seemed like it was a haze of what you were living
• 17:56
  through. I mean, I didn't.
• 17:59
  I never felt like it was hazy. I have a very clear memory of
• 18:02
  what happened, so I don't. I don't know what you mean by a
• 18:05
  haze. It it felt like when we were
• 18:09
  talking about it that you you were going from one point to the
• 18:12
  next point and and each time it felt like that there were times
• 18:15
  when you felt like you were escaping, getting out of it or
• 18:19
  kind of getting pulled back into it.
• 18:22
  Yeah, I I I guess you could say that I don't know that there is
• 18:28
  ever like an escape from. No, it's almost like it's a
• 18:34
  mental thing that you think you're like when when I think of
• 18:37
  an escape for someone who's in a bad situation, Maybe it's
• 18:40
  school, maybe it's sports, maybe it's, you know, a new friend
• 18:45
  group, whatever that is. That's that's the kind of thing
• 18:47
  that. But Ginger, take us through how
• 18:51
  this nightmare for you happened. Like what was happening in your
• 18:56
  life. What'd you say?
• 19:00
  Where do you want me to start? Well, I mean from from where you
• 19:05
  were at at the time you had. Which time?
• 19:10
  In the car, In the car we we had when you.
• 19:13
  Stopped in the accidents. Yeah, I mean, unless you want to
• 19:17
  back up from that. No, that's fine.
• 19:21
  So I I had a six month old baby and you know, I was at the point
• 19:26
  where I had a bunch of take home prescriptions, you know, and I
• 19:32
  made the decision based on self, you know, to get behind a wheel
• 19:37
  because I I had a need to go get a house key so I could get let
• 19:43
  into the house and go to sleep. Like it made no sense.
• 19:45
  It makes absolutely no sense looking back on it.
• 19:49
  And it took me years to understand that like I was not a
• 19:54
  victim of my circumstance. Like I was the problem like my
• 19:59
  thinking. Was the problem, you know.
• 20:04
  Which is a big deal. I mean, it's hard to take
• 20:06
  responsibility in a situation where you know you it's
• 20:13
  traumatic and and it's hard to deal with.
• 20:16
  It's hard to get around that to where OK, I was, I was dealing
• 20:20
  with a lot of things, but I put myself in the position to where
• 20:24
  it caused that. Yeah.
• 20:26
  I put myself in a position to not only be hurt, but to hurt
• 20:29
  others. And then did, you know, so it,
• 20:35
  you know, I I don't know. I knew I was going to prison,
• 20:41
  though. Like, I knew that you don't, you
• 20:44
  don't hit people and leave and not go to prison, you know what
• 20:48
  I mean? So my brother had actually just
• 20:50
  come home from prison. So basically after the accident,
• 20:56
  I had all this. I already had, like, a lot of
• 20:59
  guilt and shame. I was kind of like, I'm not a
• 21:00
  typical Irish kid. Like guilt and shame ran me as a
• 21:04
  child. And they still kind of do as an
• 21:06
  adult, right? Yeah, but you were.
• 21:10
  Talking about Ginger, the you know, you didn't drive that far
• 21:14
  away. I mean, I'm not making any
• 21:16
  excuses for anything, but you weren't.
• 21:18
  You were within like a mile or so of where your house was, and
• 21:24
  when you and I were talking, you were talking about you weren't
• 21:27
  even sure what or if you had hit something when you rounded that
• 21:31
  corner. So I know.
• 21:32
  I hit a dog. I've no, originally I thought I
• 21:35
  hit a mailbox, mailbox, but I thought and then when I looked
• 21:38
  in the rear view I saw a dog. So and I didn't see anybody.
• 21:43
  So I left. I was like, yeah, I'm not.
• 21:45
  I'm not stopping. I'm not in my vehicle, which is
• 21:48
  again, you know, I didn't. And, like, I should have got out
• 21:51
  for the dog, you know what I mean?
• 21:53
  Like, I saw him standing up, or so I felt like in my mind that
• 21:58
  was an excuse to oh, he's gonna be OK, you know, 'cause I I
• 22:04
  didn't. I cared more about myself at
• 22:07
  that point in time than I did about any of the casualties of
• 22:12
  my actions. Right.
• 22:16
  And then as you go along, you get home and is it someone
• 22:21
  that's at your work that tells you that they saw something on
• 22:24
  the TV or how did that come? Out.
• 22:27
  So I I had. I saw on the TV at my mom's.
• 22:32
  I went out to my mom and dad's because I wanted to be able to
• 22:37
  call a friend because I had somehow broken the windshield
• 22:42
  and I couldn't understand why the windshield was broken.
• 22:44
  So I took it, my mom and dad's. I said I had someone come out
• 22:46
  because it's not my car. I just wanted to get the
• 22:48
  windshield fixed, you know, and be done with it.
• 22:51
  That was my train of thought. And I get out there and I saw on
• 22:54
  the news that a girl had been hit right down the road from my
• 22:58
  house around the same time I was there.
• 23:01
  And that depending on which witness you listen to, it could
• 23:05
  have been a vehicle that was similar to the vehicle I was
• 23:08
  driving. And it just, I just know what
• 23:10
  God put on my heart. You said that she was walking
• 23:13
  her dog. So after that I didn't you know
• 23:19
  I didn't obviously didn't move forward with doing anything to
• 23:22
  the vehicle. I literally just wanted the
• 23:24
  vehicle off my parents property because my dad owned a business
• 23:28
  and I'd called a friend whose father was a prominent attorney
• 23:30
  in town and was like hypothetically if blah blah blah
• 23:35
  happened and the vehicle the committed that the crime was
• 23:38
  committed in was blah blah blah, you know he was abused.
• 23:41
  But the attorney basically told me, hey, that vehicle shouldn't
• 23:44
  be at your parents house if you want to save their business
• 23:49
  because it Florida doesn't have an accessory law.
• 23:51
  Like she might die, it might be a manslaughter thing.
• 23:55
  Well, and we didn't know it was a she at the time.
• 23:57
  We'd know anything, just that somebody had been life lighted
• 24:01
  to the hospital. It was like the day of.
• 24:04
  So I just kind of drove the car like down the road and just left
• 24:07
  it in the woods, 'cause I just didn't know what else to do with
• 24:09
  it. I didn't want my parents to be
• 24:11
  involved, 'cause they weren't. I can't imagine.
• 24:18
  I mean it's something like that that happens with sudden.
• 24:21
  I mean it's it's having to deal with what you would do.
• 24:25
  So did the attorney tell you to go turn yourself in?
• 24:29
  No, I was going to call him back because he didn't.
• 24:32
  He couldn't represent me because there was a conflict somewhere
• 24:38
  with with something. I can't remember why, but he he
• 24:40
  couldn't represent me and I ended up call.
• 24:43
  I talked to my dad the next morning at like 6:00 in the
• 24:46
  morning. He's having like 5:00 in the
• 24:48
  evening. And I called my dad then at like
• 24:52
  2:00 in the morning because he gets up to go to work around
• 24:55
  that time or is at work at that time.
• 24:57
  Told him I did something terrible and I needed to see
• 25:00
  him. And I had a friend of mine drop
• 25:03
  me off at the store that he was servicing so I could talk to him
• 25:10
  and tell them what happened. And, you know, it was, we both
• 25:15
  agreed, like, hey, you got to turn yourself in.
• 25:17
  Like you need to, you need to call the police and tell them
• 25:20
  that it was you. We called an attorney.
• 25:25
  And the original attorney that I wanted to call was Alexander
• 25:28
  Crostini, who actually ended up later being my attorney.
• 25:31
  And then was my served as like a judge for something different
• 25:35
  later on. It was.
• 25:36
  It was interesting. But my brother had used him and
• 25:39
  had managed to skirt consequences.
• 25:43
  You know, 'cause it wasn't. And this would sound real fucked
• 25:47
  up, right? But after this accident
• 25:50
  happened, I wanted to clear my conscience.
• 25:54
  I wanted to ensure the girl would be OK, which there was
• 25:56
  nothing I could do to do that. And I wanted to skirt
• 26:02
  consequences and make the consequences as light as
• 26:04
  possible for myself. So we called this attorney.
• 26:11
  He didn't happen to be in office.
• 26:13
  And I guess my, my brother had called.
• 26:15
  He said I just wasn't. You know, this accident happened
• 26:18
  in 2009, and I still can't talk about it without having an
• 26:27
  emotional reaction, right. So when all this was going on,
• 26:32
  and I'm on drugs at the time, you know, I could you couldn't,
• 26:39
  you know, I couldn't get the words out physically to have a
• 26:42
  conversation with somebody for, you know, what was the best
• 26:46
  course of action. But he, I call, ended up calling
• 26:52
  a different attorney. My family ended up calling a
• 26:53
  different attorney and we retained him and he said, well,
• 27:01
  hey, we're going to or actually we didn't retain him at that
• 27:04
  point. He just said, hey, I can
• 27:05
  represent you. I can go with you to turn
• 27:07
  yourself in. I'll get a check at that point.
• 27:10
  We're going to do it. This is Friday, Saturday
• 27:13
  morning, like 10:00 AM or like 8:00 AM.
• 27:16
  He's like, hey, we're going to do it like noon today.
• 27:19
  And then it went to, we're going to do it like 3 today.
• 27:22
  And then it went to, well, they don't know anything.
• 27:26
  There's no lead investigator on the case yet.
• 27:28
  We're going to wait till Monday and we're going to turn you in
• 27:30
  Monday at noon. And he had basically, my mom was
• 27:34
  like, you know, I told my dad, my dad told my brother and my
• 27:37
  brother told his girlfriend. And my dad told my mom, you
• 27:41
  know, my brother's girlfriend told Like, I don't know how many
• 27:45
  people, but by like, the end of the day, it kind of seemed like
• 27:48
  everybody in my spot. It wasn't a secret, right?
• 27:51
  Yeah, you know, so my mom was like threatening to tell, like
• 27:59
  my son's father because his six month old son.
• 28:03
  And like, obviously as I tell him sometimes I just didn't know
• 28:04
  what to tell him at this point. Like, and then and then other
• 28:11
  things like I had AI worked at a doctor's fucking addiction
• 28:14
  specialist. You know the irony of that,
• 28:17
  right? I worked for an addiction
• 28:20
  specialist doctor at the front desk and I went up there to tell
• 28:25
  the girl that I worked with, like, hey, I'm not going to be
• 28:29
  in Monday. I got had an accident.
• 28:33
  I need to go take care of it. And then she immediately.
• 28:35
  Oh my God, that was you. We saw on the news and I was
• 28:40
  like, I don't know what I I don't know what to.
• 28:44
  I don't want you to think because, like, I didn't.
• 28:46
  You know what I mean? Again, I was trying to minimize
• 28:48
  consequences, but she's like just go and I guess her husband.
• 28:54
  You were probably a little bit in shock, Ginger, weren't you?
• 28:56
  Just in general? Just like, my God, what am I
• 28:58
  gonna do? I this is like and and it's kind
• 29:01
  of out there. And then the whole anticipation
• 29:05
  of trying to figure out if you're gonna turn yourself in
• 29:07
  and when you're turning yourself in, it sounds like.
• 29:09
  A Yeah. Well, I knew I was gonna turn
• 29:11
  myself in. It was just the anxiety of well,
• 29:14
  and then to my attorney, the whole reason why he told my
• 29:18
  attorney told me to tell certain people was, listen, they might
• 29:22
  hold you. If they think she's going to
• 29:24
  die, they might hold you and it'll be a new charge.
• 29:28
  So you might be in there. You're not going to bond out
• 29:33
  immediately. It's kind of what we thought.
• 29:35
  So I was trying to, again, minimize consequences for myself
• 29:40
  and everybody around me. But hey, this might happen.
• 29:43
  I don't know. Let's, like, keep in mind that
• 29:46
  this could happen. And then that same night, I
• 29:49
  guess her husband called the police and told them that they
• 29:53
  knew who had done it. The police came out, I guess,
• 29:56
  like Sunday morning, like 2:00 AM, looking for the car, wanting
• 30:00
  to arrest me. Like I just kind of cooperated.
• 30:03
  They told me that they would let me turn myself in if I
• 30:05
  cooperate, which I kind of felt like was bullshit.
• 30:07
  But it didn't make sense to me. To not give them the car because
• 30:13
  I was planning on turning myself in was kind of like my train of
• 30:16
  thought and I had no experience with law enforcement prior to
• 30:23
  this, so. So Judy, what happens next?
• 30:27
  I mean, that's so you get. Taken in I get.
• 30:30
  Arrested take though. I mean, like, is it?
• 30:32
  I mean, you go in, do you bond out?
• 30:34
  Yeah, I bonded out. Never know.
• 30:36
  I bonded out immediately. I didn't even do it.
• 30:38
  Yeah, I didn't even get dressed. So I bonded out.
• 30:43
  I was on bond for two years. I tried to get sober, but if
• 30:47
  nothing changes, nothing changes, right?
• 30:49
  And it wasn't when I originally tried to get sober.
• 30:53
  We were supposed we thought I was going to get sentenced
• 30:56
  immediately. And then we had a suppression
• 30:58
  issue because the whole way they obtained the car, I'd asked for
• 31:01
  an attorney a few times. Like immediately as soon as I
• 31:05
  got out there, I said that I wanted my attorney.
• 31:07
  And that's when they were like, well, hey, you said you're going
• 31:09
  to turn yourself in because they, there was a phone
• 31:12
  conversation. They went to my son's father's
• 31:14
  house first because that is where they knew that I lived
• 31:19
  because the lady I worked with at the Diction Dr. had been over
• 31:24
  there before. So they told the police that I
• 31:27
  lived there. So the police originally went
• 31:29
  there looking for me. And then he called my son's
• 31:32
  father. I'd already told him what had
• 31:34
  happened, so he called me. It's like 2 in the morning.
• 31:37
  He's drunk as shit and he's like, hey, the police are here.
• 31:40
  They want to know where the car is and I'm on speaker.
• 31:42
  I don't know that. And I'm like, well, I mean, just
• 31:45
  tell him I'm not there. Like I'm going to deal with it
• 31:47
  tomorrow. I'm at and I had the the baby
• 31:50
  with me and my mom's and he's like, well, they want to talk to
• 31:54
  you. And I was like, all right, well,
• 31:56
  I don't want to talk to them like and he's like I said I
• 32:00
  forgot what I said, but he said something and he's like, Oh
• 32:05
  well, you're on speakerphone. So I hung up.
• 32:07
  Yeah, fuck that. And then I I went out on the
• 32:09
  roof because I knew they were coming to my parents house next.
• 32:13
  You know, I just didn't know what to do.
• 32:17
  So I sat on the roof and they pulled up like 8 cars deep and
• 32:22
  came to the house. They parked on the edge of the
• 32:24
  property and walked up because I don't know why.
• 32:26
  I guess no trespassing signs. I don't fucking know why we got
• 32:29
  a big parents had a big piece of property, but they walked up and
• 32:35
  basically just told me that they knew that I was the person and.
• 32:42
  It had to. I mean I I know why you're
• 32:44
  reliving the experience of that happening when they take you in
• 32:49
  Ginger and you bond out and he said it take it took two years
• 32:53
  for this to to get through the system.
• 33:00
  Did you, did you plea out or did you take it to trial?
• 33:03
  Yeah so. So it took you, it took you that
• 33:06
  long just just for the plea to happen and and to actually go
• 33:10
  through. Did you have an idea when you
• 33:12
  went to the sentencing hearing what what you were looking for?
• 33:16
  Yeah. For time.
• 33:17
  So originally the state wanted me to do 2 1/2 years flat.
• 33:23
  No probation, no nothing. The the my attorney at the time
• 33:28
  who ended up being Alexander Christine felt like we could
• 33:31
  present mitigating circumstances because of the the prescription
• 33:38
  because of fact that I was a you know a person that had never had
• 33:43
  any type of legal history offender.
• 33:47
  Yeah, you know, stuff like that. He, I guess he thought that the
• 33:53
  mitigating circumstances would be enough when by the time I got
• 34:00
  to court he had been promoted to county interim judge and in
• 34:04
  order to take that position he had to relieve his cases.
• 34:07
  So we went from we have a suppression issue, we have a
• 34:09
  suppression issue to hey, you should just take what they're
• 34:13
  offering you and just be done. Don't just be done with it.
• 34:18
  And I wasn't prepared for that because I know I got sober to be
• 34:24
  able to go to jail and live through the experience.
• 34:27
  Because I was trying to kill myself via pills after the
• 34:32
  accident. Because I didn't think I would
• 34:34
  survive jail and like, I just had so much guilt.
• 34:39
  Living with the guilt, yeah. Depression.
• 34:42
  Yeah. And I felt like a normal person
• 34:44
  would be like, bro, I almost killed somebody because of my
• 34:49
  selfishness and because of these pills.
• 34:52
  I'm going to stop taking these fucking pills.
• 34:54
  And I couldn't. I couldn't.
• 34:58
  And I got sober for as long as I was physically away from the
• 35:02
  environment. When I came back, it was the
• 35:04
  same situation. I didn't have a vehicle.
• 35:08
  I didn't have a way to get back and forth.
• 35:11
  I had broken relationships. I had chronic pain.
• 35:15
  I had the anxiety. I had prison looming, looming
• 35:17
  over my head. I had all the same people
• 35:19
  calling that had been calling before and that are people I'd
• 35:22
  known my whole life, you know what I mean?
• 35:25
  So it was. It wasn't enough for me, but
• 35:29
  again, I thought I was coming home to basically be sentenced
• 35:32
  so it would be smoother, easier transition.
• 35:35
  And that's just not what happened.
• 35:37
  And my life just progressively got worse.
• 35:40
  You know, around the time of the accident, I was doing Suboxone
• 35:45
  most days of the week, like 2 milligrams Suboxone a day.
• 35:48
  And then one day of the week or a couple times a month, I would
• 35:51
  get loaded on 300 milligrams of Oxy, you know, And then it went
• 35:57
  from, I'm not taking the Suboxone at all anymore to I'm
• 36:01
  just off and running and now I've got 1000 milligram habit a
• 36:05
  day by the time I was sentenced. Wow, so it's being sentenced.
• 36:09
  What did they finally give you for a second?
• 36:11
  So I walked in with what I thought was a plea with the cap
• 36:15
  because I had a different attorney by the time for my
• 36:18
  sentencing because they promoted Christine to judge.
• 36:21
  So and you know I wasn't AI wasn't a great what's the word.
• 36:27
  I wasn't a great advocate for myself.
• 36:29
  Right. Like I'm basically trying to
• 36:31
  avoid that this is even going on, even though it's always in
• 36:34
  my brain like every second of the day.
• 36:38
  So like I get to court and I'm supposed to I thought he was
• 36:41
  going to present my mittings mitigating circumstances.
• 36:44
  He thought I was I'm talking about my attorney.
• 36:46
  He thought I was presenting them.
• 36:48
  So I get to court and basically have nothing to say to fend for,
• 36:52
  to fend for myself, yourself. Yeah, right.
• 36:55
  And the victim's father got up there and said what a terrible
• 37:03
  person I was. And I I believed him, you know,
• 37:07
  And I understood why he felt that way.
• 37:09
  And I just couldn't stop crying after that.
• 37:11
  And the judge didn't like that. She didn't like me at all.
• 37:14
  She told me before, she didn't like my brother.
• 37:17
  She didn't like me. My brother had been in and out
• 37:19
  of jail, and they could never actually get him with, like a
• 37:21
  drug trafficking charge, which is why I felt like they always
• 37:24
  wanted from him. He would always manage to skirt
• 37:28
  his consequences. And I think I were.
• 37:32
  Yeah. So it sends me to three years in
• 37:38
  DOC, two years on community control, and then they revoked
• 37:41
  my driver's license for life. So I had to basically win an
• 37:46
  appeal years later just to be able to drive.
• 37:51
  Which is big. You told me about that when we
• 37:52
  were talking. How big a deal that was with?
• 37:55
  Yeah, it changed my life. Yeah, I'm sure it did.
• 37:59
  Talking about changing your life and changing your world, what
• 38:02
  was life like walking into a woman's prison?
• 38:06
  I mean, I didn't have any jail time, ever.
• 38:09
  I did. I was sentenced Tuesday morning,
• 38:12
  was processed Tuesday afternoon. Thursday evening, they kicked my
• 38:15
  bunk to go to prison. So I was in solitary doing pills
• 38:20
  because I brought shit in, because I was like, well, what
• 38:22
  are they going to do? Sent me to prison?
• 38:25
  Yeah, I was hoping to die that day, you know, and not have to
• 38:28
  go. But, you know, I had my, I had
• 38:34
  horrible withdrawal like the first evening because I took,
• 38:38
  you know, whatever I had left before they shipped me because I
• 38:40
  already knew that it wasn't you didn't want to play with, you
• 38:44
  know, going into prison. So by that evening I threw up
• 38:49
  all over my bunk, you know, couldn't get a bed roll because
• 38:52
  it was a holiday weekend or something.
• 38:55
  I don't know. So then I'm like sleeping on
• 38:57
  this plastic cut up, cracked mattress with no sheets or
• 39:02
  anything, and I'm like puke it all over the place.
• 39:05
  And by that next Wednesday, that's Friday morning, By the
• 39:08
  next Wednesday they they or Saturday morning, 'cause I guess
• 39:12
  I got there Friday morning, 'cause I cooked the bunk
• 39:14
  Thursday night. So by Wednesday, they had to
• 39:18
  black box me and send me to the local hospital.
• 39:21
  And I wasn't classified. So, you know, hence the black
• 39:24
  box And the two armed guards, it's 'cause they didn't know
• 39:27
  anything about me or who I was, but I was in kidney and liver
• 39:32
  failure, and they had to give me a central line through my leg
• 39:35
  because I was so dehydrated and so sick that they couldn't, they
• 39:39
  couldn't get any other veins. After that, you know, I went to
• 39:46
  the culinary dorm. I didn't even hit
• 39:47
  classification. They just stuck me in culinary.
• 39:51
  And then eventually they gave me like a a useless pass.
• 39:54
  No bending, no lifting, no pushing, no pulling, no
• 39:57
  standings out issues with my leg and my stomach and whatnot.
• 40:01
  So I finally pulled that after, like, I don't know, three or
• 40:04
  four months in the kitchen. I pulled that to try to get out
• 40:08
  of there. And then they put me in admin.
• 40:09
  And I worked in admin for a while under the pretense that
• 40:14
  like, hey, you can't use your useless pass down here, Like,
• 40:17
  don't even try that shit. If you take this job, you're
• 40:19
  going to do what we tell you to do.
• 40:20
  And I was like, OK, because it's a privileged job, you know?
• 40:24
  I really liked it. And I worked there for like a
• 40:25
  month, and I really liked the lady that gave me the job.
• 40:28
  And I thought it was a great job.
• 40:30
  And the rap thing about the one officer I'd written this, like,
• 40:36
  Limerick was supposed to be funny and it was like, supposed
• 40:41
  to be a stab at myself, 'cause I had written something prior to
• 40:44
  this in R&O reception orientation about this girl that
• 40:51
  wrapped. She was like this, this bigger
• 40:53
  white girl that had a trailer park tattooed on her.
• 40:58
  Yeah, hard. You got to Rep for the trailer
• 40:59
  park to get it tattooed. You live in that.
• 41:09
  So I, you know, I thought we were going on Eight mile.
• 41:11
  So I wrote this, like, rap battle where, like, I just heard
• 41:16
  because I thought she's going to do the same to me.
• 41:17
  And she cried and basically told me I had a horrible mouth and
• 41:20
  I'd be a perfect, like, love interest for this officer that
• 41:24
  everybody hated. And I should write something
• 41:26
  about that and make fun of myself, not other people.
• 41:28
  So again, I felt like a horrible fucking human.
• 41:31
  So I was like, OK, I can make fun of myself.
• 41:33
  So then I wrote this and it like gained traction because it was
• 41:37
  funny and everybody hated the officer, so they thought it was
• 41:40
  ironic that I guess somebody that had any type of hidden
• 41:45
  talent would use it to write something about this guy.
• 41:49
  About the correctional officer, yeah.
• 41:51
  Yeah, but it turned into like this massive joke between like
• 41:54
  staff and everybody. But eventually it got to
• 41:57
  somebody that didn't take it as a joke.
• 41:59
  So I went to confinement and I lost that good job.
• 42:03
  And then they shipped me back to court, back into my county.
• 42:07
  And then when I came, I was out to court for like 2 months.
• 42:10
  And then when I came back from court, it put me back in
• 42:13
  confinement and then released me because like the investigation
• 42:18
  and just had nothing come of it. AC confinement.
• 42:21
  How long? Were you?
• 42:22
  How long were you, Ginger? How long were you in
• 42:24
  confinement? I mean, phetically, 87 days,
• 42:26
  that's a long time. Yeah.
• 42:29
  And it's AC confinement. So, like, you don't get any
• 42:32
  privileges in AC confinement. Like, a lot of times I didn't
• 42:36
  get my mail. They immediately took all my
• 42:38
  stuff to admin to go through it to see what I had that I wasn't
• 42:42
  supposed to have, you know? So did you have an inappropriate
• 42:48
  relationship with the COI? Never had a relationship with
• 42:53
  any COI hate that fucking title on Hawaii and didn't he like
• 42:56
  that? But there was never any
• 42:59
  relationship with Acoi. Had an experience where I was in
• 43:04
  the back later on right before I was about to be released from
• 43:07
  prison. Like less than six months from
• 43:09
  end of sentence where I was in the back doing a legitimate job
• 43:14
  and turned around and had an officer expose himself to me and
• 43:17
  push himself on to me. And I didn't.
• 43:19
  I didn't have a relationship with him.
• 43:22
  There was no fucking relationship.
• 43:24
  No. I hate that.
• 43:25
  It's so cringey to me anyway. Anyway, Anyway, by the way, that
• 43:33
  guy got fired later because it came out that 22 women in less
• 43:38
  than two years had some type of sexual inappropriate contact
• 43:43
  that was propositioned by that man.
• 43:47
  And I always wonder, you know, because a.
• 43:49
  Fucking relationship with. Yeah.
• 43:55
  So Ginger, when you get, when you get to a point of getting
• 43:59
  out of was your life did you feel like because you're I'm
• 44:04
  assuming that you're staying sober in prison.
• 44:07
  Yeah, I didn't use. So how did that feel like
• 44:11
  because you had been, you know, using, you go into prison, it's
• 44:15
  a whole different environment, whole different world.
• 44:17
  But what was, what was your? How did, how did you feel about
• 44:21
  yourself? How'd that make you feel?
• 44:23
  I mean, it's nice to be able to say I don't have anything extra
• 44:27
  in my body and nice to not have the physical dependency and a
• 44:32
  physical need for an opioid and not to need to make over
• 44:37
  $115,000 a year just to pay for your dope, you know?
• 44:42
  But I physically still felt bad, you know, I had a lot of stuff
• 44:46
  that needed to be taken care of, a lot of like physical issues
• 44:49
  that need to be worked out. So I felt sick a lot.
• 44:51
  I felt like I hurt a lot. I felt angry.
• 44:55
  Did you have anybody when you were in there that you related
• 44:58
  to the people that were like? In prison, Yeah.
• 45:01
  Oh yeah. It's it's easy for me to make
• 45:04
  friends in places I was. I got, I got like, I basically
• 45:08
  keep in touch with all those people still.
• 45:10
  I've been home 10 years. You know, one of my best friends
• 45:13
  is somebody that I was in that dorm with the dorm that were
• 45:17
  with that officer. Actually, about three of the
• 45:20
  three or four of the people that I'm like super close with to
• 45:22
  this day were all in that dorm. I know, yeah, Laura Cod, she was
• 45:30
  in a Florida prison and she she had a crazy weird.
• 45:35
  She at Lowell. What's that?
• 45:37
  She at. Lowell she was with, she was
• 45:39
  with people who had had in her in her wreck incident accident.
• 45:45
  The person on the other side died.
• 45:47
  I think she get a five year sentence, but one of the things
• 45:50
  that she said was is that obviously it was awful going to
• 45:54
  prison but she was able to find people to relate to that.
• 45:58
  They were going through the same things as her that she became
• 46:01
  very close to because they she was very guilt ridden and just
• 46:05
  having the issue of having to go to prison and having kids and
• 46:08
  all the different things that went along with that.
• 46:09
  She also came across people who were dealing with more time and
• 46:15
  was able to find some like balance of understanding because
• 46:23
  some of these people were going through what she was going
• 46:26
  through. Yeah, yeah, I definitely.
• 46:28
  I I definitely feel like the women form pseudo families,
• 46:32
  whereas the men tend to form hierarchies based on power.
• 46:36
  Good point. Women we want, we feel like
• 46:39
  we're connected because we a lot of times women get essentially
• 46:42
  abandoned in prison. I I don't know that it doesn't
• 46:46
  happen to men as well, but I feel like the stigma with women
• 46:50
  is different. Like sometimes in some
• 46:53
  environment, men can get credit for going to prison, where as a
• 46:56
  woman, it never looks good, you know?
• 46:58
  Oh, you didn't care enough about your kids.
• 47:00
  You didn't you know? Let's talk about when you start
• 47:05
  getting close to the door of getting out.
• 47:07
  Ginger, what are you thinking? Like, what's the outside world
• 47:09
  going to look like to you? I was scared.
• 47:13
  I didn't get scared. I didn't really have anything I
• 47:17
  felt like to go home to other than my child, who was two when
• 47:22
  I left. His father and I always had a
• 47:25
  tumultuous relationship, but he was much more stable than I was
• 47:30
  as far as like, he was able to work as a good job.
• 47:34
  He's college educated, you know, and able to like keep his shit
• 47:39
  together to function enough, you know?
• 47:43
  Whereas I I wasn't. I also worried because I had
• 47:49
  community control and no license and my parents lived in the
• 47:52
  middle of nowhere. So nine months before I knew I
• 47:56
  was going to be released, I started Pen Palling.
• 47:58
  It's also how I started selling cigarettes through admin was
• 48:01
  because I was like, well, I'm going to need the money, dude.
• 48:03
  I have no opportunity for me to make any money and I'm going to
• 48:07
  have someone come into my house like looking for me, have all
• 48:12
  this stuff, like over my head. Everybody's going to want me to
• 48:15
  be different when nothing has changed for the better other
• 48:18
  than there is the absence of substances in my system.
• 48:24
  So you step out into that world. How did it go?
• 48:28
  I mean I went. By the time I was EOS, I had
• 48:32
  over like $13,000 waiting for me through Fen paddling and stuff.
• 48:36
  So I cut a check. I cut a couple checks out via
• 48:39
  admin to myself before I was released because I knew it would
• 48:42
  take a while for the next the big check to come.
• 48:47
  And basically I went back to my parents' house and the first
• 48:50
  night I was there, I found a loaded needle like up
• 48:53
  underneath, stuffed up under the dresser.
• 48:55
  Probably had at least 300 milligrams of oxy.
• 48:58
  And that sucker was solid blue, you know?
• 49:02
  So that's just kind of like, you know, I moved out three weeks
• 49:08
  later. Oh my God, took the cash.
• 49:10
  That check and I got a place close enough in town where I
• 49:15
  could ride a bike to work, and I got a shitty job at Sunny's
• 49:19
  making 850 an hour and had child support arrears of like $15,000.
• 49:27
  So I may I work, I'd ride 5 miles on a beach cruiser in the
• 49:32
  middle of July in Florida to go work in the kitchen.
• 49:36
  They didn't have AC and make 850 an hour for 2 1/2 hours in the
• 49:39
  morning, about 3 hours in the evening, four days out the week
• 49:43
  to get a $40 check. It's a lot to come and re
• 49:51
  entry's tough regardless. I mean, even if people have a
• 49:54
  really good job that they're coming back to re entry, coming
• 49:56
  back into the world after prison is something that you it's hard
• 50:00
  to plan for because you you don't know how many different
• 50:03
  barriers you're going to hit to try to get to what you want to
• 50:06
  get to. Yeah.
• 50:08
  So within six months of being home, I was working up at the
• 50:14
  restaurant and I poked myself with like a knife or something
• 50:19
  that was in the back. And I had, like, remember going
• 50:22
  to the bathroom and seeing like this little hole that kind of,
• 50:24
  like almost looked like it had turned into like an amp bite.
• 50:27
  And within like a day, I had I guess, MRSA like all through my
• 50:33
  leg. MRSA.
• 50:34
  Had to cut it out and they gave me Dilaudid and they packed it
• 50:38
  and then they gave me some stuff to go home because I couldn't
• 50:40
  walk. And it seemed like after that I
• 50:44
  didn't really get it out of my head that I could use again, you
• 50:49
  know? So I kind of went off and
• 50:51
  running and then I went, I went and did the MAT treatment
• 50:56
  program for a while and it never really worked well for me.
• 50:59
  What was it? Mat treatment like medication.
• 51:02
  Assisted treatment like methadone.
• 51:04
  I did that. I did a low dose of methadone
• 51:06
  for a while and I threw up every morning and felt sick and would
• 51:10
  snot out an hour after getting my dose.
• 51:13
  But we dope sick by 8:00 that evening.
• 51:17
  I'm a fast metabolizer I guess, so it didn't work for me.
• 51:21
  I enrolled in school and went to cosmetology school and tried to
• 51:24
  keep it together as long as I could.
• 51:27
  I ended up relapsing because the methadone wasn't working.
• 51:30
  I was sledding withdrawal and still felt like shit and it was
• 51:33
  easier to use than it was to not use DID.
• 51:38
  You like the cosmetology school. Was that something that you kind
• 51:41
  of fell you had a passion for, or was that just something
• 51:45
  you're trying to fill time with? Yeah, I was still in time, and I
• 51:48
  I felt like I needed to do something.
• 51:50
  It was the closest school to my house because, again, I didn't
• 51:52
  have a license and a driver's license.
• 51:54
  I'd depend on other people or having cab money, $40 a day,
• 51:58
  every day. You know, when I'm in school
• 52:01
  full time, you know, I basically wanted a job where I could
• 52:07
  control my own schedule due to my medical stuff, and where no
• 52:10
  one will give a shit that I was a felon with no license.
• 52:13
  And that's not a lot, not. To mention.
• 52:17
  It's not like I was college educated, you know, And I was in
• 52:23
  a small town where there were a lot of people who had
• 52:26
  connections to the person who was my victim, you know?
• 52:31
  But either way, that's kind of where my mind was.
• 52:34
  So I never really enjoyed it. It's never something that I have
• 52:38
  really practiced much as a profession.
• 52:40
  And even when I was in cosmetology school, it was more
• 52:44
  of like, well, hey, if I don't use this, it's like a profession
• 52:47
  and I'll use it personally. And I always kind of leaned
• 52:50
  towards like wake up, ready services, you know,
• 52:53
  microblading, skin care, lash tint, stuff like that.
• 52:58
  Then makeup or hair services. So juju you you're going through
• 53:05
  all this where you are now. How can you walk us to where?
• 53:10
  How you got to where you are now?
• 53:13
  I mean, the intervention was a big part of it.
• 53:15
  My life never would have gotten better without the opportunities
• 53:20
  that the show presented for me. I want you to talk about that
• 53:23
  because I think that's a big part of your story.
• 53:26
  So I guess around the August of 2015, they sent me a letter
• 53:35
  saying that due to my attendance rate, they were going to take my
• 53:39
  scholarship away, which I knew was coming.
• 53:41
  I knew I deserved to have that happen.
• 53:44
  And I was just like, dude, I'm not fucking doing this again.
• 53:47
  This is like a repeat of 10 years ago, bro.
• 53:51
  Like, I'm not, I'm not doing this again.
• 53:54
  Men were financing my drug problem by that point and I just
• 53:59
  didn't want to do it anymore, you know?
• 54:01
  So I got I think that most addicts get to a point where
• 54:06
  they look at their life and start to ask if everybody would
• 54:13
  be better off without them, right?
• 54:18
  I had gotten to a point where I knew everybody would be better
• 54:22
  off without me, because every day with me was just always
• 54:26
  something, You know what I mean? I couldn't just have a normal
• 54:29
  day. And if I did have a just normal
• 54:31
  day, I was sunk out of my fucking mind.
• 54:36
  So I made a plan to write Intervention, Doctor Phil Ellen.
• 54:44
  Anybody that I thought would listen and possibly give me
• 54:47
  treatment, I wrote and I pretended to be my family
• 54:51
  because that's what intervened. For you.
• 54:53
  Right, because that's what they want.
• 54:57
  Most people don't want to hear it from the attic because most
• 54:59
  of us can't decide on what we want to do and can't commit,
• 55:03
  right. So And I said that if I if I
• 55:07
  didn't get treatment, I was going to shoot myself in the
• 55:09
  head in the backyard after my where's a bunch?
• 55:13
  We're all fucking Capricorns and Sagittarius when I feel like for
• 55:16
  the most part. So my niece has my niece's mom
• 55:20
  has a birthday, December 14th. My niece's birthday is the 16th.
• 55:23
  We have Christmas the 25th. My birthday is the 27th.
• 55:27
  My best friend's birthday was the 28th.
• 55:29
  Then you got the new year, and then you got my son's birthday
• 55:33
  on the 9th of January, right? So I wanted to be dead before
• 55:37
  another Christmas, but after my niece's birthday because I felt
• 55:41
  like there was an acceptable week where they could go from
• 55:50
  transitioning from me passing to being able to move on with the
• 55:54
  holiday. That's a dark.
• 55:56
  Thought. It made sense in my mind and it
• 56:01
  was the least, you know, And I noticed.
• 56:03
  I said like, I was gonna shoot myself outside because I wanted
• 56:06
  my landlord to be able to rent the house without saying if
• 56:09
  someone killed himself inside the property or inside the home.
• 56:12
  I didn't want anybody to have to come in there and clean it up,
• 56:15
  you know? I felt like it'd be easier
• 56:17
  outside. And intervention?
• 56:21
  My intervention was the day of my niece's birthday.
• 56:26
  So. It was.
• 56:28
  It was a God thing. They get like 10,000 letters a
• 56:30
  day. So the fact that anybody read
• 56:32
  mine and even cared, you know? So how does that work Ginger,
• 56:37
  when you get accepted end to that?
• 56:41
  For me, it took them three months to actually commit.
• 56:44
  So essentially there's this process.
• 56:48
  There's all these questions, you write them, there's all these
• 56:50
  questions. And normally I wouldn't be a
• 56:52
  part of that process, but I was the one that wrote them
• 56:54
  pretending to be somebody else. So because I couldn't get my
• 56:57
  family on board, my family didn't really wanted anything to
• 57:00
  do with it. They want to be a part of it.
• 57:01
  My dad told me intervention would never come for me and that
• 57:05
  if they did, it wouldn't work for me.
• 57:11
  So they had already kind of decided that I wasn't worth it.
• 57:16
  You know, I wasn't worth the time to talk to these people on
• 57:20
  the phone to get them to come out and do the show, which is
• 57:25
  why I had to pretend. I mean, for some of those that
• 57:28
  don't know, the Intervention is a show where it deals with
• 57:32
  people who are trying and struggling to get to the off the
• 57:36
  addiction. It's a fucking shock.
• 57:38
  Value show. Like it's a show, Yeah.
• 57:43
  Anyway, either way, so they came out, they, they.
• 57:47
  Before they came out though, they worked with me on the phone
• 57:49
  forever. And I had to, like convince my
• 57:52
  family as I got farther and farther and closer and closer to
• 57:55
  them actually coming that this was happening with or without
• 57:58
  them, even though it wouldn't have happened with them.
• 58:01
  And I they they didn't know that.
• 58:03
  I knew that. But I basically told them, hey,
• 58:05
  if you don't want to come on and tell your side, I'm going to go
• 58:07
  on and I'm just going to tell mine and I'm going to fucking
• 58:11
  get treatment. But like the day before they
• 58:14
  intervention bought their tickets, my parents decided that
• 58:17
  they would participate and they participated.
• 58:22
  I had somebody move in with me that was like one of the dudes
• 58:26
  that was financing my drug problem to make it, to say that
• 58:30
  he wrote the letter. You know, to basically say that
• 58:35
  he was so concerned for me so I can get treatment.
• 58:38
  But he was the one that reached out, even though I was the one.
• 58:42
  It was basically I I needed treatment.
• 58:44
  I had no money. They actually ended up being on
• 58:46
  my amends list because I essentially used the show in
• 58:51
  order to get free treatment. They're not the free treatment
• 58:53
  show. You know, they're they're my
• 58:55
  life is so bad, my family's scared I'm going to die and they
• 58:59
  want me to get better. Show.
• 59:02
  Right. So how did it go?
• 59:06
  As far as. The show and the family and
• 59:10
  everybody being involved. I don't what do you, what is the
• 59:14
  what, don't? What exactly are you asking?
• 59:16
  When you say how did it go? Are you asking like stepwise,
• 59:19
  how did it go? Or are you asking if I think it
• 59:20
  was a good outcome? I mean, stepwise, it was long.
• 59:25
  I asked them at one point if people, a lot of people died
• 59:28
  before they ever got out there and they didn't have an answer.
• 59:31
  For me, I think that was kind of difficult to deal with, but I
• 59:35
  think they're kind of used to that.
• 59:37
  It's weird. I had somebody following me
• 59:40
  around in the bathroom every six hours just for like a go shoot
• 59:43
  up. You know, there are situations
• 59:47
  that they wanted me to enact to present to the viewer, the the
• 59:55
  viewer, what it would look like for certain scenarios, like the
• 1:00:03
  lengths that addicts would go to get the drug.
• 1:00:07
  Right. So there were things that were
• 1:00:08
  shown on there that didn't necessarily happen, but could.
• 1:00:13
  Wanted it to happen in. Reality have maybe happened at a
• 1:00:16
  different point in time, right? In the right circumstances, does
• 1:00:21
  that make? Sense that's the way a lot of
• 1:00:22
  the reality stuff is, yeah. I work at TV and film now, so I
• 1:00:25
  understand now. It felt very personal at the
• 1:00:29
  time. I remember at one point we, I,
• 1:00:32
  we, I didn't really argue with them when they asked me to do
• 1:00:34
  stuff, even if I felt like it was wrong.
• 1:00:36
  Because it's in my mind. It's the free treatment show,
• 1:00:40
  you know, I'm getting free treatment.
• 1:00:42
  They want to show. I'll give you a fucking show.
• 1:00:43
  Just do. You do, I'll do my end.
• 1:00:45
  You're going to do yours. And I had to fight with them a
• 1:00:50
  little bit for some stuff. I don't know if it was timing or
• 1:00:54
  me personally. They originally sent me one
• 1:00:56
  place that I was there for three weeks and they medically
• 1:00:59
  discharged me and basically told me mentioned you're going to
• 1:01:02
  come get her and you're going to take her somewhere else because
• 1:01:04
  we don't have the ability to care for her for the level of
• 1:01:08
  care that she needs. And then the place that they
• 1:01:11
  ended up sending me to in Destin.
• 1:01:14
  They said the reason why they didn't send me was because the
• 1:01:16
  facility was a super nice facility and they we buy and
• 1:01:20
  cook our own food, which is part of why they wanted me to go
• 1:01:22
  there because they thought it would be easier for me with
• 1:01:24
  mine, my medical stuff to eat my.
• 1:01:29
  They said that the family, my family would not commit $75 a
• 1:01:33
  week for food for two months. So that was part of that was
• 1:01:39
  like a major factor why didn't send me there to start with And
• 1:01:42
  then they ended up getting it. Somebody, I think in the 12 step
• 1:01:46
  community, heard about what's going on and donated in order to
• 1:01:51
  get me a Publix gift card every week so I could get food with
• 1:01:54
  everybody else. Wow.
• 1:01:58
  Netflix was great. This was like I said, my
• 1:02:01
  intervention was December 16th of 2015 and then the beginning
• 1:02:05
  of January I came like I think the 3rd or 4th or 5th or 6th or
• 1:02:09
  somewhere around there. I was in back in Destin and like
• 1:02:13
  that place really helped me. I changed my thinking.
• 1:02:18
  I got really integrated into the 12 step community.
• 1:02:21
  I had tremendous growth at that facility and with in the the
• 1:02:27
  rooms. Do you?
• 1:02:28
  Think that's when your mindset changed?
• 1:02:30
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 1:02:31
  Yeah, 100%. Finding the right people, the
• 1:02:33
  right place, the right feel, 100.
• 1:02:34
  Percent. It's support.
• 1:02:35
  I had support there that I never had from strangers, yeah.
• 1:02:40
  That's so cool. Yeah, like I ended up moving.
• 1:02:43
  And you say you stay close with those people now, right?
• 1:02:47
  Yeah, they, yeah, I stay close to the people from prison and I
• 1:02:49
  stay close to the people from my treatment center.
• 1:02:51
  Actually, anytime like I lived in Destin after I got sober.
• 1:02:56
  So I got, I went through treatment, I was there for two
• 1:02:58
  months. I got really integrated into the
• 1:03:00
  community because it was like APHP.
• 1:03:02
  It's like a parcel hospitalization program.
• 1:03:06
  So you're like in and out of the community with other people, you
• 1:03:09
  know, doing you know, 12 Step and stuff like that.
• 1:03:13
  After that, I was gifted sober living again by somebody who had
• 1:03:18
  heard about my experience with the show off of the show.
• 1:03:23
  They got me linked up with somebody else.
• 1:03:26
  You. Didn't even know who it was.
• 1:03:28
  I know. I do know.
• 1:03:30
  You know now, probably, yeah. I knew at.
• 1:03:32
  The top, but before that happened.
• 1:03:33
  Yeah, she reached out to me. They they contacted me because I
• 1:03:37
  had been promised a sober living via somebody on intervention
• 1:03:41
  staff and they they meant it. They were they were willing to
• 1:03:44
  do it and Intervention show acceptance said, hey you can't
• 1:03:47
  do that. It's a conflict of interest.
• 1:03:49
  You can't. I think the thing, I just think
• 1:03:51
  the thing that's so interesting about your story is is it seems
• 1:03:54
  like, and I said this with the beginning each and every time it
• 1:03:57
  seems like you're at the end. I mean truly at.
• 1:04:00
  The feel like, oh, shit's going to change, yeah, but.
• 1:04:04
  You, you actually somehow didn't give up on yourself.
• 1:04:08
  You thought about it. I mean, you thought about it.
• 1:04:10
  You thought you were going to end it and you were going to be
• 1:04:12
  very thoughtful in your suicide and all those different things.
• 1:04:15
  But you, you, you continue to reach out and try to find help
• 1:04:18
  for yourself. And then you finally found it.
• 1:04:20
  And this place in Dustin, which I think maybe that's why your
• 1:04:25
  story and why you're sharing it means so much to people who are
• 1:04:29
  struggling. Is that you?
• 1:04:32
  It was not easy for you at all. And and I can see from the
• 1:04:36
  emotion that you talk about as you relive these things, these
• 1:04:40
  are things that are real to you. But you've now been sober now
• 1:04:44
  for how long? So I don't say that I am sober
• 1:04:49
  because of my medical marijuana vape.
• 1:04:52
  I don't have a sobriety date because of that.
• 1:04:55
  I did do over 2 years, almost three years of totally sober, no
• 1:05:00
  substances, and like, I don't even drink caffeine other than
• 1:05:03
  sweet tea. Now drink it then.
• 1:05:06
  Like, whatever you know, nothing.
• 1:05:07
  No prescriptions. See my diet bottle here.
• 1:05:10
  No, nothing, right. And I got to a point in sobriety
• 1:05:15
  where I was doing all the emotional work.
• 1:05:18
  I was going to the meetings. I was working with another
• 1:05:20
  addict. I was reaching out.
• 1:05:22
  I was calling people. I was showing up and then I
• 1:05:26
  started to really focus on my body because I had so much pain.
• 1:05:30
  I got to a point where I was willing to kill myself in
• 1:05:33
  sobriety or I was going to put a needle back in my neck because
• 1:05:36
  of pain that I was experiencing. There are days where, and by
• 1:05:39
  this time I had won my appeal, right?
• 1:05:41
  This is like we're we're in like get.
• 1:05:43
  Your driver's license back. Yeah, we're in 2018 now, right?
• 1:05:46
  I'm now living in Destin. You know, I've been in Destin
• 1:05:50
  area for like 2 years with all my sober support and all my
• 1:05:54
  community, and I have a really good life.
• 1:05:56
  I got married to a man that was a really good understanding man.
• 1:06:01
  No trauma, no drug history. Like fucking normal.
• 1:06:05
  You know that guy? Yeah.
• 1:06:07
  Never been abused. Well, the opposites attract,
• 1:06:09
  right, Ginger? You know, it's so funny at one
• 1:06:12
  point because that I I'll never forget this, right.
• 1:06:15
  We're at a meeting and it was like it was a heavy meeting.
• 1:06:17
  It was like adult children of Alcoholics.
• 1:06:19
  I don't know if you've ever done looked at that look or have
• 1:06:23
  anybody experienced that. That's like probably the hardest
• 1:06:27
  thing because it's like looking at a mirror and it's basically
• 1:06:30
  telling. Told me that all the things I
• 1:06:32
  thought were so unique and so special about me were isms and
• 1:06:37
  were basically side effects of trauma.
• 1:06:39
  Right. But we were, we were outside of
• 1:06:43
  this meeting and like me and the small group of probably five
• 1:06:46
  other people are crying because we're talking about being abused
• 1:06:49
  as children. And most of it was like sexual
• 1:06:52
  or whatever. And Doug walks up and he's
• 1:06:56
  always, like trying to lighten the air and he goes, man, I must
• 1:07:01
  have been a really ugly kid because no one ever tried to
• 1:07:04
  abuse me. I'm not in a car, Go to the car
• 1:07:08
  right now. But everybody laughed because
• 1:07:13
  they, you know, they knew. You have to, yeah.
• 1:07:16
  Because, you know, well, at least I put it for me, but
• 1:07:20
  either way it, you know, I. So it's interesting that you
• 1:07:25
  comment on how hard it was for me, because I think a lot of
• 1:07:29
  people feel like it was easy because of the show, but also a
• 1:07:34
  lot of people. It's one thing for me to tell
• 1:07:35
  you that I did these crazy things.
• 1:07:38
  You'd be like, Oh yeah, sure you did.
• 1:07:39
  It's another thing to sit down and watch an hour of it on
• 1:07:42
  international television, right? Especially with what was on
• 1:07:47
  there. Because I felt like.
• 1:07:48
  How did you feel about what was on there, though, Ginger?
• 1:07:50
  Were you like that's me? It's it's disgusting.
• 1:07:54
  It's weird a lot. It's weird too looking back at
• 1:07:58
  it, because I know which scenarios actually happened and
• 1:08:01
  which. Ones Yeah.
• 1:08:02
  How long did it actually happen? Like when?
• 1:08:04
  From when you got accepted into the show.
• 1:08:06
  I mean, it took, it took a months to say, hey, we booked a
• 1:08:10
  flight, we're actually coming. But normally they normally they
• 1:08:13
  follow someone around for anywhere from a week to three
• 1:08:15
  weeks. They only needed five days with
• 1:08:17
  me. The Ginger Show Oh, it was only.
• 1:08:21
  Five days. They only needed five days of my
• 1:08:23
  bullshit. And they were like, we're going
• 1:08:24
  to take break early, we're going to go for Christmas.
• 1:08:27
  I forget we got a We got a winning episode here, buddy.
• 1:08:32
  This is real reality. The worse it is, the better the
• 1:08:35
  ratings are. OK.
• 1:08:36
  So, so Ginger, because of what you're doing now and you got
• 1:08:39
  into acting in that, do you think that fed into that?
• 1:08:41
  Do you think that getting around the camera and doing that is
• 1:08:45
  absolutely. Not, no.
• 1:08:46
  No. What got you what Where?
• 1:08:48
  Tell people what you're doing up to today.
• 1:08:51
  I mean, I always wanted to be in TV and film or model as a kid.
• 1:08:56
  After I had London in 2019, we moved from Destin to Charleston
• 1:09:02
  to try to keep the family together because Doug, London's
• 1:09:05
  dad is a merchant marine, so he's the chief engineer on like,
• 1:09:09
  his big ships. So he'd be gone for six months
• 1:09:11
  out the year. It's really hard for a family,
• 1:09:14
  especially when the mom's an A recovering addict, you know what
• 1:09:18
  I mean? It's still always going to be
• 1:09:20
  crazy, you know. So we basically moved to
• 1:09:24
  Charleston and try to keep the family together.
• 1:09:26
  And like within three weeks of us moving out there, we realized
• 1:09:31
  that he was going to end up being a chief over in New
• 1:09:33
  Orleans. So he left like immediately.
• 1:09:35
  And I had to set up this house with this baby.
• 1:09:38
  But it kind of worked out because I got, I started a
• 1:09:40
  modeling portfolio out there. I got in connection with a lot
• 1:09:44
  of different photographers. And then when I got out here I
• 1:09:49
  actually had a portfolio. And somebody at the gym saw me
• 1:09:51
  in London one day and came in and started talking to us and
• 1:09:55
  told us, asked me if I'd ever thought about being in film and
• 1:09:58
  TV. And I said that I had.
• 1:10:00
  I just didn't know how to do it. And he gave me a card and they
• 1:10:03
  told me what agency to go to and what website to basically sign
• 1:10:07
  up for. And I was on set of a BETTV show
• 1:10:10
  less than a week later. Wow, that doesn't usually happen
• 1:10:14
  like that. So that's pretty cool.
• 1:10:16
  Yeah, my my first audition ever, I booked a Super Bowl
• 1:10:20
  commercial. I didn't even know a Super Bowl
• 1:10:23
  commercial. I've had people that have told
• 1:10:25
  me they've been in TV and film 10 years, have never been
• 1:10:27
  invited to audition. Never mind, I've booked over
• 1:10:31
  3000 people auditioned for that job and they had like 8 lead
• 1:10:34
  spots and I was one of the first people they booked.
• 1:10:36
  Yeah. And I think there's something to
• 1:10:37
  the fact, too, of having the confidence to go audition,
• 1:10:40
  audition. You know, a lot of people will
• 1:10:42
  take acting classes and theater and and that and and they're
• 1:10:47
  afraid to to put themselves out there because they're, you know,
• 1:10:50
  afraid of the rejection. But I think you're a unique
• 1:10:54
  soul, gingers. You're not afraid to to put
• 1:10:57
  yourself out there because you've you've lived through a
• 1:11:01
  lot of different things that would put you in a mindset that,
• 1:11:05
  hey, I'm just gonna do this, I'm gonna make it happen, give me an
• 1:11:07
  opportunity. I'll make it happen.
• 1:11:09
  Yeah, I mean, it's the worst that can happen.
• 1:11:11
  You guys don't? Mess.
• 1:11:13
  It could happen. Exactly.
• 1:11:14
  Exactly. Which is a great mindset, by the
• 1:11:16
  way. Because you know, if if we had
• 1:11:18
  more people that you know weren't afraid to fail, they
• 1:11:20
  could do a lot of things that they want to do.
• 1:11:23
  That's the whole idea of nightmare success is you got to
• 1:11:25
  walk through your fears and your unknowns, to get out of your
• 1:11:27
  comfort zone, to get to something that you want your own
• 1:11:30
  personal success. But Jinja, what do you think?
• 1:11:35
  Where you sit now, Where you sit now, what you've been through,
• 1:11:40
  What do you think would be one of your bigger takeaways through
• 1:11:42
  what your life experience has been?
• 1:11:46
  To stop letting other people decide who I am and what my life
• 1:11:49
  will be. I listened so long to so many
• 1:11:53
  people that like, I'm the type of person I surround myself
• 1:11:56
  with, People that don't want me to succeed.
• 1:11:58
  I did that for so long because I felt obligated to people.
• 1:12:02
  That's another thing. I'll be honest, Ian and a little
• 1:12:05
  fucker. Ian's the one that kind of made
• 1:12:07
  me realize these that it's really hard for me to let people
• 1:12:12
  go. I tend to grow very quickly and
• 1:12:15
  let an exponential rate once I'm ready to grow.
• 1:12:18
  And I tend to try to drag people with me because I feel like I
• 1:12:23
  owe them something, right, Because, well, you were there
• 1:12:26
  when shit wasn't good. Or like, I know what you're
• 1:12:31
  going through. We're buddies.
• 1:12:32
  Like, I can help you. You have to be willing to help
• 1:12:37
  yourself. So I try to tag people who I
• 1:12:40
  don't want to change. I like my life the way it is,
• 1:12:43
  but in order for my life stay the way it is.
• 1:12:44
  You can't grow talking to me and I can't.
• 1:12:48
  Like being stagnant is like death for me because I get bored
• 1:12:53
  when I'm complacent. I get bored when I'm not
• 1:12:55
  challenged. And it's really easy for me to
• 1:12:58
  think about, like, like to let chronic pain sleep in where I
• 1:13:03
  don't have shit, when I have shit that, like, I don't have to
• 1:13:05
  necessarily show up and put on a face for it, you know?
• 1:13:09
  Well, there are some days where I literally just can't.
• 1:13:11
  Like no matter what it is I have planned, it's not fucking
• 1:13:13
  happening. And then there's other days
• 1:13:15
  where I feel like it's worse if I change my schedule to comfort
• 1:13:22
  myself, if that makes sense. Yeah, it does.
• 1:13:26
  But I mean I think what you're doing and and as busy as you're
• 1:13:29
  keeping yourself and doing what you like doing, you know that's
• 1:13:33
  that's the other part of it. You know you're you're traveling
• 1:13:36
  around telling your story and doing the things that you like
• 1:13:38
  doing that you care about. And I think that's what also
• 1:13:40
  keeps you on the right path. If if anybody wants to get a
• 1:13:44
  hold of you ginger, what's How do How do they find ginger?
• 1:13:48
  Instagram at Lil Lil. under score Red under score Wolf.
• 1:13:53
  WULFF. I'm on Facebook.
• 1:13:57
  I'm on Tiktok. You're everywhere.
• 1:14:00
  Yeah, just reach out like I'm People reach out all the time
• 1:14:04
  and they're like, oh wow, you responded or I wouldn't.
• 1:14:06
  I'm not a celebrity. I'm a human being.
• 1:14:11
  And even if I was, I would. Eventually, I think even if you
• 1:14:14
  become a famous celebrity, you'll still be touching on and
• 1:14:17
  reaching out to people that that are reaching for you because you
• 1:14:20
  think you want to help people with your story.
• 1:14:24
  And if if people try to get a hold of me, I'm brentcassidy.com
• 1:14:29
  at my website loving you guys with the Apple reviews.
• 1:14:34
  That's such a big deal. Don't forget to to subscribe and
• 1:14:38
  like, comment and and don't forget about the book.
• 1:14:41
  I I've got that book if you're looking for a book to.
• 1:14:43
  Read I want the. Book I'm your success.
• 1:14:46
  Get it on. Yeah.
• 1:14:48
  Get it on. Where do you get it?
• 1:14:51
  Barnes and Noble on Amazon. OK.
• 1:14:56
  So for those when I was writing my emails back and forth from
• 1:15:02
  Leavenworth, stay strong. I'll do the same.
• 1:15:06
  Ginger, thank you so much for today.
• 1:15:08
  Appreciate you sharing your story.
• 1:15:10
  Thanks for having me. Nightmare.
• 1:15:13
  Success in and out.