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The Snark Site that Won't Die · Outspoken the Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Sophie Torber and coming up on today's show. Trouble is
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: brewing for Tattle Life as the snark site comes under threat.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: But first, Tammy Hembrough and Matt Sikowsky have reportedly had
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: a very public spat whilst attending an influencer event at
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: the Australian Open. Yeah, so Tammy and Matt were gifted
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: VIP tickets by Chemist's Warehouse and they sat alongside reality
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: stars Callum Hull and Khan Ong. So according to a source,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Tammy and Matt's argument was tense. And apparently Tammy was
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: overheard telling Matt to get his stuff out of her house.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: That's pretty next level. Something major must have gone down
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: to say that in public. Maybe they felt comfortable because
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: they were surrounded by other high profile people that they
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: thought that the argument wouldn't get out there. Well, it
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: has gotten out and it's gotten out to the Daily
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Mail of all places. And they went as far as
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: to quote a source within the VIP event who apparently said,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: One thing is for sure, the Australian Open won't be
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: having them back next year. Well, last week we were
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: talking about how Tammy Hembrough wasn't even interested in the tennis.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: She said that she didn't really want to watch it
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: and it sounded like it was quite boring for her. See,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: maybe she was just bored during the game and picked
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: an argument. I mean, sometimes when I have to watch
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: the football with my husband, I'm like, fuck, what can
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I do to get this off the screen?
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I'll have an argument with him.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Well, apparently this fight was so bad that Tammy ended
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: up flying home to the Gold Coast without Matt. And
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: he extended his trip in Melbourne partying with friends. Well,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: that makes sense because I was listening to his podcast
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: the other day and he was talking about, oh, I'm
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: going to this Australian Open event and this one. And
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: each time he was saying he was bringing his sisters.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: So maybe Tammy was meant to go. Those brands must
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: have been so disappointed. Well, these were $ 900 tickets from
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Chemist Warehouse and all that they got from it was
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Tammy saying how she doesn't like tennis and also this
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: huge argument. Yeah, well, someone posted an interesting thread in
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: our Facebook community about how they've actually been put off
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: by the brands that invited influencers who were rude and
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: disrespectful to the Australian Open. And it's a really fair
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: point because it doesn't look good on the brand if
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: you are picking these influencers who aren't even interested in
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: being there and act up. It sounds like this argument
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: would have been very awkward for everyone involved because Tammy
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Hembrough shared a photo of where she and Matt were
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: sitting with Chemist Warehouse They literally looked like they were
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: sitting on the court. I wonder if things got so heated,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: maybe the tennis players were.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Like, shut the fuck up, we're trying to play.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: There was glass between them and the tennis players.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Hopefully it was soundproof.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, since this report, we have seen Matt
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: and Tammy posting on social media as normal. So it
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: seems like it was just a spat. I don't think
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: this is marriage ending.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Do we think that the argument.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: I know there's a bit of a speculation here, but
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: was centered around the fact that Matt probably wanted to
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: go out and party and be seen at all of
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: these different tennis events and maybe Tammy just wanted to
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: have a quiet night with her husband. I think it
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: more comes down to the fact that the honeymoon period
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: is over in this relationship. Well, have they ever had
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: a honeymoon period? Because it's been so hot and cold
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: following each other, unfollowing each other.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: There's been so many rumors of arguments and spats.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I kind of get the vibe they're the sort of
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: couple that love having an argument because they just want
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: to make up after it.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Do you think?
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I reckon, yeah, because it's exciting.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: And with Matt, I mean, we've already heard him speak
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: on his podcast about how his Christmas and New Year's
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: was a little bit, I don't want to say mundane,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: but you know, just a lot of family time. Maybe
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: these arguments inject a bit of excitement into their relationship.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Sounds so toxic.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Well, he did speak in a recent podcast about some
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: of his aims for 2025. And one of those was
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: getting into reading. Let's have a listen to what Matt said.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: I've actually taken up reading.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Have you?
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So I don't know if I listed this on
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: the goals for 2025, but I want to read.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: So we went into a bookshop the other day. We did. Yeah.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: The kids got some books and then I was standing
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: around like their section looking at books with them and
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: I saw Goosebumps. And I was like.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Old classic. Old fave.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I used to read them when I was a
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: kid and I just picked one up and I looked
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: at it and I was like, nah, they'd already taken
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: off actually. I was still reading like the blurb and
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: looking at it and they'd already paid and walked out.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, fuck, I'll get this. So
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: I ran up to the thing and got it. And
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: then like I caught up with them and they're like, oh,
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: where were you? And I was like, I've got a
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: book I'm going to read. So I've been reading that.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: So it's a kid's book essentially.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, sure.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: I couldn't believe when he said goosebumps. And I don't
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: mean to shame him because it's great that he's getting
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: back into reading. And he did make a comment about how, well,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: he may as well pick up where he left off
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: because that was the last time he read when he
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: was a teenager. In his defence, I wonder if it
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: is a way for him to connect with his stepson, Wolf.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Because that's the sort of reading level that Goosebumps is at.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, in saying that, I loved reading Goosebumps back
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: in the day. That was some scary shit on there. Well,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: the best bit is his mum was so excited that
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: he was getting back into reading that she went down
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: to a thrift shop and bought him like eight Goosebumps books.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: Continued on page five.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, I shall just rise above it. I shall
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: not let this thing affect me anymore.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Influencer snark site TattleLife shocked its users by announcing it
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: was closing down due to recent threats. The anonymous gossip forum,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: which has been touted as the most toxic corner of
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: the internet, has become one of the most visited websites
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: in Australia and the UK, averaging 84 million visits a year.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Its owner is set to be hit hard by the
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: website's demise, losing an estimated $ 1 million in annual ads revenue. Now, Sophie,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: this story has had a few twists and turns.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: How did things kick off last week?
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Well, last Wednesday, TattleLife sent its users into a spin
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: when they realized they could no longer access the website.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: So the website was down for several hours. And when
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: it returned, it was operating under a new name. So
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: the new name was 8Cafe. And many of Tatl's longstanding
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: members were panicking because they had been automatically logged out
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: of their accounts and they were struggling to access the
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: forum because they either couldn't remember their password or their
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: email addresses that they signed up with. And this is
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: because in the past, members were told not to link
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: their personal email addresses.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: With their tattle accounts.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: And that is so that they could keep their identities concealed.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: And for four years, the website hasn't been accepting new members.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: The only way you can join is if some longstanding
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: member gives you a code. I often see a lot
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: of people shopping around for the code because it's almost
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: like you're joining this exclusive membership. And in my opinion,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: this process has been put in place to stop influencers
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: from having any sort of write or reply or ruining
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: the forum's fun. And I think it's also made a
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: lot of the long term Tattle members feel very powerful. Now,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: when it came to the rebrand, there wasn't much positive feedback.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: So the owner tried to spin it and said that
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: they renamed it Hate Cafe to be more of a
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: generic name because they thought that Tattle was too synonymous
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: with gossiping and it wasn't meant to be about gossiping.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: And the general consensus was that the new name actually
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: sounds a lot like the Hate Cafe, which really contradicts
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: the message that the owner was putting out in the
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: first place. I don't think anyone has been buying this
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: narrative that the owner has been putting out there. And
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: when she was addressing the rebrand and the reason for
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: registration remaining closed, she said, we didn't really have much
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: choice as we've never allowed any content that gets into
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: the gray areas of harassment and abuse. She continued, we're
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: reorganizing things and will shortly be allowing new members to
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: post on the non-problematic threads. I'd like to know what
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: threads they are. This is just textbook gaslighting. This website
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: has earned itself the title of the most toxic corner
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: of the internet.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: And then to claim that Tattle doesn't allow.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Users to go into the gray areas of harassment and
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: abuse is just laughable. Literally nothing on this forum is
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: off limits. I have never seen any moderators step in
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: To address any of these posts that are crossing a line. Well,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: they also claim that you can report posts. And I
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: have done that in the past. I've reported something. I've
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: sent them an email. I've demanded people take something down.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Never a response.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: And harassment is literally encouraged on this website. There's a
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: lot of delight taken in scrutinizing women's appearances and their
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: parenting and relationships and mental health. And what makes Tattle
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: particularly dangerous is that its users are completely anonymous.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Well, just like the owner.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: So she goes under the name Helen. It's clearly not
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: her own name. And if you're so confident in what
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: you're doing, why do you have to be anonymous? Shouldn't
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: you be screaming from the rooftops that this is your website?
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: It's pretty obvious why she's anonymous, because there would be
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: so many influencers out there who would want to serve
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: this woman with cease and desist or defamation legal letters.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: but they are unable to because of this anonymity of
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: the website. Now, it's quite clear that this rebrand didn't
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: just come about because the name Tattle was no longer
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: reflective of the content on the website, like the owner claimed.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: This has come about due to legal threats.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: And interestingly, when Tattle returned under the new name, a
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: disclaimer had been added on the bottom of each page
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: and it read, all posts are users' opinions and does
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: not necessarily reflect the opinion of 8cafe.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Now, this clearly was an attempt to avoid being sued
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: for defamation.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: And it's very clear that more was happening behind the
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: scenes because a day later, a farewell message from the
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: owner appeared.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: It read, farewell.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: We believe it's important for the public to have an
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: opinion on social media influencers as they occupy a unique
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: and largely unregulated space between celebrities and everyday individuals wielding
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: significant power. In January 2023, we closed registrations after too
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: many users violated our rules.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: And thought they could ignore them and create a new account.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: As we said back in 2019, our hope has always
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: been that this site would become unnecessary as governments introduced
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: proper regulations unfortunately recent threats directed at members of one
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: of our families have left us with no choice but
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: to shut down the site it is simply unfair for
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: them to be impacted by something they have zero involvement
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: in It's quite ironic that the owner of this site,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: which literally encourages hate on a daily basis, is trying
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: to take the moral high ground with this. Like now
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: they're outraged that they're receiving threats. There have been influences
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: that have been discussed on this forum that have received
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: multiple threats and continual harassment. Yeah, and also to act
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: like you're some sort of crusader who's merely been holding
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: influences to account and fighting for better regulation and is
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: just laughable. It has always been an unregulated snark site
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: and it has been designed to bully and harass people.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I think originally it might have been set up with
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: the best intention to actually hold people to account, but
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: the lack of moderation has really injured the credibility of
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: this website. Lack of moderation, there's zero moderation. And I mean,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: as I said, I have tried to get defamatory information
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: taken off that site down before and there is no
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: one monitoring it. I mean, I just don't understand how
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: it has lasted for the last seven years. And I
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: would love for Helen or whoever she is to be
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: publicly named and shamed. Well, reading between the lines, it
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: sounds like a lawyer or some kind of representative of
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: one of the influencers has tracked down Helen or whoever's
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: family members. And they've made legal threats to these people.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: The timing is pretty interesting because only a few weeks ago,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: we were talking about how Zoe Haig was crying on
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: her YouTube video about the commentary that she gets on
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: sites like Tattle. And she said that she would pay
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: all the money she had for a lot of the
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: people who write on Tattle to be unmasked. Well, a
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: lot of the members in Tattle started freaking out because
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: they thought that maybe the reason it was closing down
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: was due to a data breach and that their information
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: maybe was going to be released to the media.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Or just on a public site? We saw it with
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Ashley Madison, the dating website.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: So it would actually be such a coup for the
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: influencers and people who discuss on this forum. The unfortunate
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: thing is there are a lot of people that do
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: lurk on the site that aren't necessarily.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Active on it.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Well, this actually happened back in 2021. So there was
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: an anonymous Instagram account called The Detectives And they began
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: revealing suspected tattle users' identities. So it was this collection
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: of volunteers who created the page. And they said it
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: was the first time anyone had stood up to the
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: tattle trolls. And people were able to submit details of
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: suspected bullies for analysis. Wow. It was pretty crazy though,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: because Helen kept having to reassure Tattle Life that People
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: on Instagram can't use an app to find your home addresses.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, the detective's page just disappeared
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: one day and Kaylin claimed it was down to her.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: So she wrote on Tattle Life, this morning we sent
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: an email that was written under careful advice and shortly after.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: The account disappeared. So she does seem to wield a
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: lot of power.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people would be shocked if
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: some of the members of Tattle were unveiled because a
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: lot of them would be nurses, teachers, doctors. Well, that
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: was a bit like that hate page, Salty's Day. So-
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: probably back in 2020, there was a snark Instagram set
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: up purely targeting Sarah's day. And somehow the woman's identity
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: got unveiled and she was a teacher and her boyfriend
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: didn't even know about this account and found out. Which
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: shows you how much a lot of these people have
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: to lose because these are professional people. But it's quite
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: interesting because a lot of Tattle users don't mind going
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: after influences workplaces or sponsorships.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Like that's something that they do.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: They take it to the next level and go outside
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: of the forum and start attacking people's real lives.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Well, this announcement rocked many TattleLife users and they were
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: told the site.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Would remain open for users to say their goodbyes.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: And this seemed really important for many of the tattlers
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: who over the years have built very strong online friendships
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: by bonding over their mutual hate for a lot of influencers.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: One longstanding user vowed to make a Tattle Life 2.0
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: and urged users to.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Join them there.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: There was a very mixed response in our Facebook community.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Majority of the people were like me and they were
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: overjoyed and very relieved that this site was finally going
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: to be removed. One listener wrote, to be honest, I
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: think this is for the best. There was little to
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: no moderation on there and some of it was truly unhinged.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: It wasn't uncommon for them to take aim at the
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: appearance and behavior of influencers' children and families who weren't
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: online and basically dox influencers by providing hints to real
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: estate listings. Whilst another listener said, words hold so much power.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: People hiding behind usernames, writing hideous things about strangers is
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: seriously unhinged. No one deserves to be bullied. Look at
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: the rate of suicide and the impact on mental health
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: and bullying. I'm stoked it's gone. It was really interesting
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: for some influencers in our Facebook community to also weigh in.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: So Brittany Saunders shared her reaction to the closure saying,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: this may be a completely unpopular opinion, but honestly, thank fuck.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: I've been publicly on social media for over 10 years
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: and it is astonishing the amount of anonymous bullying that
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: I have witnessed and how widely accepted it is even
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: in 2025. She continued, end anonymous bullying if people want
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: to talk shit about influencers, creators, whoever, do it amongst
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: your friends, or even better yet, post a video of
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: you talking about it to your public social media accounts.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Food influencer Leah Stainis also shared her personal experience with Tatl,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: explaining she received her own thread just.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Before she gave birth to her daughter.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: She wrote, the vile commentary when I was having a
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: hard time literally gave me postnatal depression. And the words
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: that those people wrote stuck with me for almost two years.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: It hurt so bad that it got to the point
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: where I thought my child was better off without me
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: because I couldn't keep her from vomiting on my clothes
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: or I didn't look well kept. The last I read
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: on there was someone calling at the time my three-month-old
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: not that cute. I felt sick to my stomach. It
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: wasn't just hatred of me. It was talking about my daughter's.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Appearance as a baby.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: It killed me inside and I've worked for over a
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: year now in therapy because of it. I actually... had
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: chills going down my spine as you were reading that out, Amy.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: And that was my reaction when I first read Leah's comment,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: because we actually spoke to Leah at the end of
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: last year on our Christmas series and Tattle Life got
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: brought up. And at the time she spoke about it,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: she didn't sound ultra affected by it because I think
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: she's been doing a lot of work in therapy, but
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: just hearing her go into what she went through, particularly
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: when she'd only just had her baby and It makes
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: me so sad and I think it is a really
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: good example of why that place needs to be shut.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Down and why it is so dangerous.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: The thing that irritates me is so many members of
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Tattoo say, oh, well, the influencers shouldn't read the pages
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: about them.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Well, we're just holding them accountable.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: It's like how is commenting on a baby's appearance, keeping
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: an influencer accountable is disgusting. I'd also like to say
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: to some of them, okay, so if there was a
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: whole forum that was public and as you mentioned, it
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: gets millions of hits a year. Would you not be
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: tempted to go on there and see what people were
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: saying about you? And that's the thing in our Facebook community.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: We did have people on the other side of things
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: who were quite upset that the forum was being taken down.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: And that was a reason that someone gave. They said,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: isn't it better the snark is on a different page,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: not in the influencers comments or DMs. And they said
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the influencer doesn't have to go and look at what's
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: being said about them. But I would challenge anyone. To
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: not go and look up what is being said about
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: them on a massive forum. But also, just because you
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: have a thread on Tatlalife dedicated to you doesn't mean
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: you don't get trolled in your DMs and comments either.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: And I actually think it's worse to have a dedicated
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: spot because as we have touched on, when the Tatlas
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: heard that the website was shutting down, they were fully grieving.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Like they are losing friendships.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: They have bonded over their hate for influencers.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: And it gets to a point where.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: They're egging each other on who can make a funnier
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: joke and put someone down.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: There was also a listener who said that she was
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: disappointed that the site was going because she said, personally,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: I valued reading Tattle. It shed light on issues that
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: might otherwise have gone unnoticed. For instance, they exposed the
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: TikTok family poisoning their baby long before it was in
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: the public arena. They also held certain influencers accountable for
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: repeated racist comments. And I do think that they've got
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: a point in that it has shone a light on
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: some important issues that may have gone unnoticed. But in
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: saying that, the nasty, heinous, hideous comments.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Outshadow all of that.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Tattoo Life isn't the only place where people
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: comment on influencers. There are a lot of subreddit threads
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: where people hold influencers to account. I mean, again, they
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: also involve a lot of bullying, but I think they're
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: much better regulated and moderated. Again, I'm not across every
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: single Reddit sub-thread, but I think that a lot of
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: people are like, oh, we'll have to go on Reddit
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: and they moderate everything.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Now, unfortunately, the farewell was short-lived.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: 24 hours later, the owner of Tattle Life changed her mind.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: She shared a post saying, after further discussions, yet late
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: into the night for some and all afternoon for others,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: we have decided to deal with the threats with legal action.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: As you will appreciate, we won't be discussing the situation
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: as it concerns family members with no connection to Tattle.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: All matters are with our legal team. It continued, once again,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: we apologize for the stress of the last couple of
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: days and hope to see you all back on your
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: favorite threads. Please post on topic on the threads and
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: ignore the whole situation while it's being dealt with as
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: to not jeopardize it. The owner clearly didn't like that
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: users were trying to start up their own forums as
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: she warned promoting groups elsewhere will get a ban. Or
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: posting to announce you're leaving will as it also helps
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: no one. If we ever do close the site for good,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: it will be left live to let.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: People say their goodbyes.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: It really rubbed me up the wrong way how she
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: said We won't be discussing the situation as it concerns
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: family members with no connection to Tattle. Now, that has
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: never stopped you from allowing hate towards family members of
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: influencers or public figures who have nothing to do with
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: being in the public eye being discussed. I just hate
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: how she's on her high horse about it all. And
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I really don't understand how you can actually seek legal
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: action when you're an anonymous owner and you don't want
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: your identity exposed. Because the founder of Tattle Life goes
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: by the pseudonym Helen McDougall. Now, disturbingly, when you look
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: into it, Helen McDougall is the name of a Scottish
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: mistress from the 1800s whose partner was charged with grave robbing.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: And Helen also ended up being charged.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: With the crimes.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Now, over the years, there has been a lot of
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: speculation around who Helen actually is. And one widely held
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: belief that I have to say is unfounded is that
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Helen is the best friend of of one of the
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: most discussed influencers on the site. Some other top guesses
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: as to who she is, is that she either has
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: her own beauty business, works for the prime minister, has
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: friends in influential places, lives in France, has a toy
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: boy husband or a tech whiz husband. Or is just
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: an absolute miserable individual that is living in the basement
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: of a parent's house.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, bingo.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: But I think that Helen's identity is not far away
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: from being exposed. Clearly someone has got her real name. Well,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: she has only ever given one interview during the forum's
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: seven-year reign, and that was to Lime Goss, which is
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: a gossip site affiliated with Tattle Life. And Helen described
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Tattle as a space for reasonable critique of public figures.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: She said it isn't trolling as it gives people somewhere
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: to comment about people that choose to become a public
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: figure and broadcast their private life to make money. She
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: also explained that she launched Tattle because she said so
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: many people were just brazenly breaking the guidelines for adverts. Now,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: the reason that Helen is not backing down and is
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: choosing to fight against these threats is because she stands
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: to lose a significant salary if Tattle is forced to
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: shut up shop. So This site has been running since 2018.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: And in that time, it has become one of the
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: most visited.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Sites in Australia and the UK. And stats show that
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: they rack up 42.3 million visits in the space of
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: just six months. And they use Google AdSense to place
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: ads on the site. Oh, the ads are so bad
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: as well. Like they're not small ads. They literally, like
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: if you're scrolling on the site, it takes up the
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: whole window. That's why I don't understand how no one's
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: been able to serve them with legal letters because clearly-
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: their Google AdSense account would have to be attached to-
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Linked to someone. Yeah, but it's probably just like, well,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Google's not going to provide that information. I'm more thinking
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: of the address they give to get the AdSense mail
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: sent to you because normally Google will send you an actual.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Letter to say, oh, this is how much you made.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Well, it'll shock you even more because in 2021, it
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: was estimated that those terrible ads actually generate more than
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: half a million Australian dollars in ads revenue over a
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: six-month period. So Helen is making approximately- $ 1 million Australian
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: dollars a year from the forum. Well, probably more because
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: it was three years ago, so surely it's only gone up.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I love in the interview how she said it's a
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: place to discuss people who have put themselves in the
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: public eye to make money. It's like, well, you're making
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: money off this website, so why can't we hold you
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: accountable for the.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Views that you have on your website that you make
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: money off?
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Well, I also find it ironic that she supposedly set
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: up this website to call out influencers who weren't disclosing
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: information their ads and the work that they do. Yet
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: she is not transparent with the Tatlas about her finances.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, she clearly has her own financial interest at
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: stake here and she is making a significant amount of
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: money for dragging people's names through the dirt. Yet they
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: don't have the money to pay proper moderators apparently. That's
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: the thing that I find most shocking. If you're making
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: over a million dollars a year off a website, do
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: you not have the responsibility to hire staff to ensure
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: that posts don't cross the line legally and ethically? I
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: have never seen one post be moderated.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Or shut down.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: The size of that audience also makes me feel very
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable for Helen because if her identity is exposed and
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: people are able to sue her for defamation, a lot
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: of the time the figure that they come up for
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: reputational damage is based on how many.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: People viewed it.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: So if you're getting 43 million viewers to your website
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: a year and that's a hell of a lot of
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: a payout. But it also makes sense as to why
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: she's been able to shut down attempts because in 2021,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: an influencer called Em Sheldon gave evidence before a parliamentary
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: committee calling for the site to be taken down. And
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: this seemed to ruffle feathers at Tattle Life. In 2020,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: there was also a petition to close Tattle, which was
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: signed by 63,000 people. And there have been a lot
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: of questions over whether user's identities were safe as well.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: So she's had a few headaches, but she's always been
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: able to use the money that she's made off the
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: website to defend herself legally. Well, you can see that
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: she's rattled because the quick name change to something bizarre
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: like Eight Cafe, I mean, that highlighted how panicked she
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: actually was. The backflip and saying we're closing down now,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: we're not. I think Tuttle's days are numbered. Well, in
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: terms of this name change, Do we think that she
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: was trying to quickly delete the old website in terms
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: of she's been sued for defamation?
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Fuck, I better get rid of it all. Let me
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: try and get everyone across.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: To this new website while I delete all of the
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: files from the old one.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Potentially. Screenshots exist though.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Well, in Australia, there are new rules that state that
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: people who have forums or Facebook communities, they are responsible
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: for what people post on there. So if someone writes
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: something defamatory as the owner, you have the responsibility to
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: either moderate the comment, or you could get sued because
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: you are responsible for that comment being up there. It's
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the same for this site. There is clearly a lot
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: going on behind the scenes that we're not privy to.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: One thing that I really hope to see out of
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: this is Tattle Life's owner's identity revealed because I think
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: that that will open up a whole new kettle of
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: fish for her legally. I think if this ship is
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: going down, a lot of people are going down with
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: it and there are going to be members who are
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: exposed potentially via what could have been a data breach.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: And this is going to have huge ramifications. Well, that
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: is all we've got time for today. Thank you for
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: listening to another episode of Outspoken. If you do like
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: the show, please leave us a review. This podcast was
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: recorded on the traditional land of the Kaurna people of
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: the Adelaide Plains.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: We pay respect to elders past and present.