Latest / The Ambitious Coach Lab / You Can’t Learn This From a Playbook: Lessons From the Session Room with Pete Srodoski

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You Can’t Learn This From a Playbook: Lessons From the Session Room with Pete Srodoski · The Ambitious Coach Lab

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the ambitious coaching lab, powered by nine minutes.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Cam Lum.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Each week we explore the real tough big tough conversations and breakthrough moments to drive coaching success.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let's jump into today's episode.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hello, friends.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I am so excited to welcome Pete Strodowski with us.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: He is a former CEO, COO, all of the things.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's a best-selling author, the creator of R3, a fellow Lego and Star Wars enthusiast.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: We were joking I had my little uh C3PO, and he just happens to have a C3PO shirt on right now.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like clearly this was meant to be.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, but uh, but no, Pete's been a good friend and um just a great um resource.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've learned so much from him over the years just through content and just your uh humble approach to life.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: I've always just really appreciated.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: So when we were thinking about guests for this season, too, I was like, man, I gotta get Pete on here.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is gonna be awesome.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, man, welcome to the show.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to have you here, dude.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Cam, thanks so much for having me on, man.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love uh chatting with you.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I love uh I love it.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be awesome.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: So to kick it off, why don't you share a little bit of kind of filling in some of the gaps maybe of your just entrepreneur journey for those that maybe don't know you as well?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I grew up in corporate retail uh early on.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I'm a guy who started by bagging groceries, you know, 14 years old and uh never got a college degree, just worked my way up the the uh the ladder, became a store manager at a really young age, 18 years old, um running small retail stores and and making my way up.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I decided to leave corporate retail as a store manager of Dick Sporting Goods at about 27 years old.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, by that time I had run about eight or nine different retail stores.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, many at PetSmart and Target and Dick Sporting Goods.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh went into a frozen dessert company called King of Pops.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh that's where I really got into small business entrepreneurship and understanding and learning about uh, hey, the world is your oyster.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can go do whatever it is that you want to do.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, if you want to go close this deal, go close it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And there's nothing stopping you.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, which, boy, was that exciting, right?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for years and years and years, I was just an executor of somebody else's vision.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And this became the first time that I could just go craft something of my own, um, which was exciting and limitless, uh, which, you know, is is daunting and and to the wrong person could be um analysis paralysis, right?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because you could have way too much and it could be uh overwhelming to the point where you can't make a decision.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: But uh me, I'm somebody who just jumps immediately into something and and and never looks.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So uh it worked out perfectly for me and I thrived.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I quickly got promoted up the ranks and and made my way up to a COO role.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um a competitor offered me a CEO spot, ran my first company, um, which was a$30 million company out of Birmingham, Alabama, ran a few more companies and decided to become a business coach.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um this was based on a variety of different reasons, and I started writing books, but uh the the main thing here was I I no longer wanted to support one company.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: I really wanted to support um more than one company at the same time.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to help CEOs around the country, I wanted to help 20, 30, 40 CEOs, and not just one at a time.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I also found this thing that was just so unique.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: The CEO really didn't care about what the COO had to say.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was uh they were they were blockers, they were in your way.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um a lot of times it was valuable, but it was also still like, I'm the guy, I'm the boss, right?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so um the role of a CEO coach, especially an experienced CEO coach, the CEO looks at me more like a mentor and somebody that they'll listen to and value my opinion.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it's a different relationship.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: So one that um I appreciate far more, and I I think the CEO responds to far better.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: So um having that and extrapolating it out, multiplying it by 20, I feel like I can provide so much more value that way.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And there's uh bits and pieces of that I didn't even know.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate your elaborating on that.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: So in this season, I really wanted to dive into like just stories, you know, the good, the bad, the ugly, all of those things, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Of just, you know, you, I think when we were talking before this, we we hit record, you said I think there's been about 150 CEOs and organizations that you've been able to, I'm gonna say meaningfully impact, you know, yes coach, but like have a for real impact on.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm I'm assuming in those, you know, that that, you know, quite there's quite a few situations.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: So can you share a little bit about?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm assuming, you know, you've already alluded to some of that tension that's there, but how do you go in and address that?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm sure there is a little bit of, oh my gosh, this person is just standing in my way.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so how do you get into that almost, I would almost call it just emotionally charged environment when you first go into it?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you have anything to like for stories or examples of that?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: I have so many.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, uh, I uh this is a big thing.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um chapter one of my most recent book, uh Build Kick Ass Teams.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about that elephant in the room that you just have to address it.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I find that the most important thing that you do is just lay it all on the table, guys.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Let's lay it all on the table.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so what I like to do is acknowledge it um and say, hey guys, we all have the same plan here.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: We all want this thing to succeed.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just acknowledge a couple of things and let's say it out loud.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: You don't like you, you've got some problems with you.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: We know you guys that haven't worked out here recently, we know you can't stand you.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: We know that you've got a problem with you.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, we know that you you guys have been fighting for a long time.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: We know that you don't trust you, we know none of the leadership team trusts itself.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just saying those things out loud with that group of people, boy, it is pretty wild what those people will say once you can acknowledge that and open up, allow that vulnerability, just slice through that vulnerability.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um but there there's been multiple times.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh I I've I've stopped fist fights in the middle of rooms.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that was just very recent, in fact, we stopped a fist fight.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I had uh asked the the the CEO to go take a step outside and walk around, and the other guy was about to walk out.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: The CEO is about to walk out and quit.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, you know, what happens if you quit?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I said to the CO.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: I said, so you quit, you gotta go find another job.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: And what happens then?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're out looking for another job, you've got three, four more weeks, you gotta apply for something.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows if that hits?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So why don't you just sit back down?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well let's let cooler heads prevail.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it actually it worked out, and they wound up working out well together.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the CEO called me later on and told me it was a fantastic conversation.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: The CEO thanked me so much for mediating it.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: But the the thing I'm I'm just trying to say is just just being there in the middle of it and and not getting it charged back, not allowing that to reflect, absorbing all of that anger, angst, frustration, emotional nature, and just, hey guys, let's just deal with it.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's killer.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a that's that's fascinating?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: My brain's going in like two different directions.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just gonna choose one.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um do you, yeah, there we go.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: All right, perfect.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the do you have a way that you uh the word that comes to mind is retract that energy where it doesn't, where you don't absorb it.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any like tips or tricks about how you kind of like reflect that back to okay, I'm not gonna take that because I'm an emotional person, right?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like I tend to be an empath where I'm gonna take on the emotion, like I'm gonna be able to feel it, which is a huge advantage going into a room, whether that's leadership team meeting or whatever it is.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, but I often carry a lot of that emotion.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I worry that coaches a lot of times will do that if you don't have the right mentality.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you if you were speaking to someone like me that is more is gonna carry that emotion, how do I keep that in a almost arm's length way?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I have this thing that I like to do where I quickly and instantly say, What would I tell myself if I was coaching myself?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it works, I do it embarrassingly.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say this out loud.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: I do this in my marriage.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've been married for almost 14 years.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: We've got five kids.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it prevents me from responding emotionally to things.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um because I don't know why it dis it distanced myself and it it creates some level of distance between an emotional response and a way that a professional response, you know, I all of us we we look at ourselves as experienced professionals and we have the ability to to to measure our response emotionally or objectively.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I like to to do that.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: I like to say, how would I respond to this if I was being coached?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: How would I tell my employee, how would I tell a CEO to respond to this?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I could do it so fast now that it it doesn't skip a beat.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's what I do.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sitting in a meeting and and I have this this charge, and I also I just kind of know that the everyone's counting on me in that meeting to uh to hold the flank.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's important that I do.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh if I lose the room, I think that's critical.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I lose that room, that meeting's over.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: That that entire that entire thing is toast.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's absolutely critical that I'm holding that room and then I'm holding that that that entire conversation together and not letting it getting emotionally overwhelmed.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something you learned over time?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like say, you know, early.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like let me tell you something.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you pay$700 an hour.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't know.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: You don't learn that.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: You don't learn that from an Instagram course.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: You don't learn that from going to college.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: You learn that from getting assaulted on the job physically.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: You learn that from getting attacked by customers in retail stores.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: You get that from getting screamed at and yelled at and swore at and threatened and having guns pulled on you and knives pulled on you your entire life.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: You get that because you've been through it all.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: You've experienced it all.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: You've had suicides in your office, you've had death in your office, you have seen everything, so nothing shocks you anymore.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: You don't get that because uh you've been a manager for two years.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: You get that because you've been a manager for 20 years and nothing shocks you anymore.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're used to it.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're you're you're neutered from the sensation of shock and emotional chargedness, right?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and and that's what you pay for.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: With a business coach, um you pay for the experience.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're not paying for a methodology.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're paying for the experience of I know how to deal with this situation because I've dealt with it five times before.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I've tried it twice this way and it didn't work.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I've tried it three times this way, and each time I've gotten better at it, and this is how I would recommend dealing with it.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so good.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I I remember I I think you had had alluded to that before.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um the rolling with the punches, that's literally what that came from, right?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, and I I wasn't gonna say that earlier, but yeah, I would I've I've been assaulted.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've been I've been assaulted on the job and and put in the emergency room.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's where the name roll with the punches came from.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: It came from a physical assault.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and yes, and that was where I I wrote my first book from, Lead with Empathy.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and it it it it's it's it's you you you learn from your experiences, right?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's absolutely critical.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not the first time that someone's laid their hands on me.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: If if anybody here's ever worked retail and they've said no to a customer who wants to make a return and that person's high on drugs, you you you you've experienced what I'm what I'm gonna say.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you you know it, right?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: You've you've lived that life.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh someone who's trying to steal and you're trying to stop them from stealing, and they're they're trying to get their fix.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: You you've experienced this.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you're putting your in yourself in harm's way.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: So they're you're used to emotionally charged situations.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you desensitize yourself to that over time.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Cause you are in and you know, hopefully, you know, the um the physical side of things isn't necessarily a normal C, but it I think what it does for you specifically is it's given you a perspective to understand.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then when people are getting, I mean, an example that's prime, you know, is the potential fist fight, you know, and it's like, oh wow, we need to actually get this under control.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you've walked through that before, which gives you so much value.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: So is there because the flip side of this, and I think this is something that we could spend some time here, because I'm fascinated with this, because obviously, like coaches are the best at asking questions, right?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: You go in and you're asking the right thing, but there probably is a time in more emotionally charged things where sometimes you actually need the tension to play out a little bit, maybe if if that's the right word, where okay, I actually as coach need to stay silent and let this play out to a healthy level.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk a little bit about that dynamic?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're probably, especially with like CEO to COO, like that's probably something that, you know, is an easy example.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd love to get your perspective on that.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I also I just want to comment slightly on something that we we allowed to die just a second ago.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't want it to.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: I want it to fester for a second, is that CEOs are the least accountable people in their building.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: No one holds them accountable.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's no controls over a CEO.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: 150 CEOs that I've coached, they feel there's this amazing amount of ego.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: In many cases, they feel like they have this godlike power in their business.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And as a result, things get very quickly physical or argumentative, yeah, or um volatile very quickly.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because who's gonna tell them no?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's no one stopping them, no one has stopped them for years.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: So when when you're you say like, oh, I guess gonna talk them down, yeah.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's just not reality.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: That just and I'm not saying that happens all the time, but you have to be prepared on site in a tense, very uh confrontational situation that those types of things happen.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, especially in certain industries and and and and and environments.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, to your point, right?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes you you need to let those conversations uh marinate, right?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and and that mare that marinating makes the the the conversation healthier, the dynamic healthier, because it allows uh people to get things off of their chest.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: So what I like to do is I like to tease.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I like to pull stuff out of people.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: So when I can tell somebody's starting to say something and then pulls back, that's when I come out.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll sit there quietly and I'll notice the COO start to step out and say something that they've been wanting to say.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I could tell, then they pull back and I'll stop them and I'll say, Jerry, say what you really want to say right now.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm gonna tell you something.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: When you leave this room, the only person's fault it is for you not saying what's on your mind right now, it's no longer Jim's fault, it's your fault.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't say what's on your mind, you can't go back to your wife and tell her that he didn't listen.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right now it's Jerry's fault for not saying what's on his his mind.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I guarantee 99% of the time, Jerry will say what's on his mind.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that will tease out a deeper, way, way more intense friction, yeah, but necessary conversation, which will scrape the heart of the issue and we'll actually get somewhere.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when we get handshakes and hugs, and we really get somewhere.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: That is, yeah, that's so good.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: It almost almost like the person needs a little bit of permission to be able to go in and okay, yeah, we're gonna go in and now, oh, I've been seen for that I have something to share, or I am under tension, or I'm frustrated, or whatever it is.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm seen for where the state that I'm in, and now I have permission to share with the group of, okay, now I can actually bring my piece that I've been wanting to share.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I think a lot of times you do, and I've seen this dynamic where you do have visionary leaders in there.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: We tend to dominate because it's just, and both position-wise, but also personality-wise.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think oftentimes you do have to bring the, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna generalize it, but the more introverted or the more um support type individuals from a personality standpoint.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: We need to bring them into the room, make sure they get that perspective because often that's the most valuable perspective.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Cause like what I'm thinking up here in the clouds or in my, you know, mindset of just, all right, I'm at the top.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: I need that perspective underneath, but oftentimes those people need that permission.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a really interesting like point that you bring out.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: I like to say um they need validation.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I they need validation and they need an arbiter to do so.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm the arbiter.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm the arbiter in the room who gives them the validation that they need to speak.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh that's really good.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Have you had a moment where um, or or maybe maybe I could frame it in a success story where someone hasn't necessarily, you know, gone in and just adopted some tool or framework or whatever, but like you've truly seen like life transformation through, you know, you initially started with somebody.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then as we're going through, oh wow, this relationship in this business reconciled, or you know, this individual realized, wow, I am being just an asshole to everyone around me.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And wow, I'm gonna put in the work to actually change that.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Have you do you have a success story?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I've got a couple.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: As soon as you said that last part about being an asshole.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the most interesting things, um, I've got quite a few CEOs, especially, you know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: So the ego driven ones more more in the attorney lanes, attorney, accountant, these highly specialized roles where the folks are um they're the only ones that know the craft.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so not only do they have the ego of being the business owner, they have the ego of knowing the job.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so that ego of it's only me.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: So without calling out names or the you know the industry or any but just saying an attorney, right?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Just say an attorney.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, specifically going in there and having one-on-one conversations and explaining the value of the leadership team.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you can't do it all by yourself.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And let me explain what a leadership team and a healthy leadership team looks like.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And let's reform when you should talk in meetings.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I made that person sit till the very end of the meeting to say a word.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And boy, it killed them.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: I killed them because they wanted to respond every single time something came up.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just say she, right?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: So she it killed her.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because she won, I mean, she just had the answer.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: She wanted to, and she it she knew exactly what she wanted to say immediately.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody brought up the issue and she's like, this is what we're gonna do, period.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's it, right?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: But what she was re she didn't realize is it was shutting down her entire team from even opening their mouths.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And she was creating this this entire uh structure.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: The leadership team wasn't a leadership team at all.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was this this group of people who were just standing there waiting to be given orders.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: So there there was no team.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: There was a command structure.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um I don't think she would have listened to a fractional integrator or a fractional COO, but she listened to me as the CEO coach.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody who, you know, she's paying a a a lot of money to to to tell her what she's doing wrong.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I told her like you have an ego problem, and you're not letting your people talk.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so what we're gonna try is we're gonna try you not talking at all the entire meeting.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: How'd she respond to that?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it was terrible.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like in that moment is what's horrible.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: You try telling somebody with an ego problem they have an ego.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: I can't imagine that was easy.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, it was horrible.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, I I have a way about not being rude and you know, softening the blow.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I like to tell people that your superpower is also your kryptonite.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: So let's explain why, you know, yeah, why the thing that you're amazing at can flip itself on its head in the business.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of people respond well to telling them that the thing that they're amazing at has an ugly head to it.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um i it wound up being phenomenal, right?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: So she started having uh incredible L10s um that the team started rallying around and uh started knocking out to-dos and coming up with solutions without her.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember her pulling me aside months later, but she pulled me aside and she said, I've never had this much free time as an attorney in my life.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And she goes, I I wanna I wanna thank you for that.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's because of the fact that you've challenged me and told me to shut up.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, politely, of course, that I've been able to listen to my people and relax and allow them to start leading and me observing and verifying.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I you know, I tell I tell my CEOs that you need to turn into a chief verification officer, uh chief validation officer rather than a chief executive officer.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think she took that to heart.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's awesome.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool to to to see the, and then I'm sure as she's seen the results in the organization of her, you know, I'm sure it's a little bit of like humble pie.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, when you do see, oh wow, the team is actually reaching the conclusion.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what that does, and I think a lot of leaders miss this.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think coaches are such a good example of this because I can even compare and contrast consultants with coaches.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think consultants have a great place in this world.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: There are times where you need to bring in an expert and get their opinion on things, but coaches have this cool ability, and I think good leaders have this ability too, is to help the people that are they're being that are influenced by them come to that conclusion on their own.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: And coaches have this incredible ability to do that.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: So you did that with her, and then as she's seen, oh wow, my team, and you're probably getting more buy-in.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: I would imagine that her team is probably probably has a lot more buy-in and is like, yes, let's actually build this because they have a place in it, as opposed to just, okay, we're taking this vision and we're we're executing it and it's not ours.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a big difference in gap for a lot of leaders, I'd imagine.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's their first time doing it too, right?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: They feel like for the first time their their wings haven't been clipped.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they they have the ability to fly.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's pretty um empowering for a group of team members.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you want to scale somewhere, if you want to grow somewhere, having the ability to to to thrive and to grow, that's that's incredible.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean you know, I I personally believe, you know, W-2 is a trap.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're in the W-2 world and you want to scale, you want to grow, and that's the where you want to be, and that's just the life you're in, and that's perfectly fine.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: But if that's where you're at, you want to be in a situation where it's growing.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to be stagnant.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Stagnancy is death.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: And uh if you're you're going in and your boss is telling you what to do all day, every day, and you have no opportunity to grow.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just a horrible situation.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a um I I totally agree with you.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's something to be said about there was a leader that I had, um, and he very early on pulled me aside.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I was very young.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was early, mid-20s, put into a position where I was leading a staff of 75 at the YM, the largest YMCA in South Carolina.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I made a lot of mistakes and, you know, I was not ready for that.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I will never forget he pulled me into his his room uh or my office.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it was one of those offices that, you know, those giant cinder blocks that they make, like, you know.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he said, We I will never forget this.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: He said, He we he pointed to the very top of it.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: He said, We put you up here, and he said, We didn't give you the foundation underneath that.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's no wonder you're struggling.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I never I was thinking literally thinking about that this morning.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um that lesson, and then he helped pave the way for me to understand, okay, hey, here's what we're gonna do.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna invest in some leadership development for you.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna put you in this role that's probably gonna be a little bit better fit for you to give you a runway to get some like assistant stuff.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just like, oh my gosh, you're not mad at me, you're not gonna fire me because I made this mistake.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, no, I'm gonna walk with you.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Why would I?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: You have so much drive.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the buy-in that he got for me in that moment was like, dude, tell me what I need to do.
• 30:16
  unknown: Yeah.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just, it was such a powerful reframe that I think he let the emotion, and sure, I'm sure he was frustrated, but he got himself together before that conversation and had it to where we just got a good plan of action, didn't crush my spirit and make me feel like I was less than.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was just an all-around incredible leadership coaching moment that got the buy-in.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm sure she probably experienced a lot of that.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, hey, you know, he leaned into me.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you think?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: What do you need?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, like I'm able to think through that and probably it was just, it was an amazing moment.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd imagine a lot of leaders that you work with have those moments with their employees, or it's just like, oh yeah, oh my gosh.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'll tell you, I I uh I have a moment just like that.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: As soon as you said that, uh I was 19 years old, and uh a district manager of mine who was uh I was a store manager and a district manager of mine caught me lying.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, I'm embarrassed.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was a teenager and lied about uh something I told her I said I did.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh a project in my store.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I just flat out lied.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Yeah, I did it.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And uh she asked me to prove it.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't prove it.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and she said to me, she called me out and she said, Pete, all you have in this world is your integrity.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And when you lose it, you can't get it back.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: That stuck with me for I don't know, a lot of years, right?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because that was 19, that was a long time ago.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've said that so many times to people, and I've never been able to lie to somebody.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Transparency and honesty have been some of my key tenants since that day.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um but that's stuck with me, and the fact that she decided to that day show grace, and the buy-in I gave her from I I mean, I would the loyalty, the trust, uh it's interesting because that came back 20 some odd years later, just this past week, we had an employee situation at one of my companies, and they they were going to fire this girl.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the everybody in the leadership team said, fire this girl, fire this girl, fire this girl.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I I said, Hey, you know, let's pump our brakes.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let's sit down, let's have a conversation with her, let's see what's going on before we just go immediately fire her.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Let's have a uh, you know, it's she deserves better than that.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just have a conversation with her.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if she approaches it one way, we can still terminate it.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: But if she approaches it a different way, let's let's hear her out.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see what's going on.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: And sure enough, the entire team was wrong.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: They had perceived incorrectly for what she had done.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the CEO pulled me outside after the meeting and said, I almost made the worst decision of my career by firing one of my top employees without talking to her.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, I want to thank you for that not allowing me to do that.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I wasn't there, the entire team would have just terminated her.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: My dad has this line that he always says, and this is just one of those, you know, there's a couple statements that become full philosophical like foundations for you.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: But he all and he instilled this in me.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: But the saying is people are far more complex than our overly simplistic perception of them.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's, man, all right, here's my perception of you that you are whatever, we need to fire you.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, people are a lot more complicated than that.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: And in certain situations, like, sure, can people turn on some charm?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to understand it.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you can sense genuineness and authenticity when somebody comes in with the right mindset.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm with you, man.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a level of empathy, grace, whatever you want to call it, that is such an important part.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm assuming that's, you know, a key part of probably the work that you do as a coach.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing that that was just kind of a a trend that I've over the last couple minutes that we've talked about, I want to, I wanted to ask you because I I wonder if there is a level of trust that has to be developed with a leader when you're working with them.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a time period that you can quantify or like when do leaders tend to open up?
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Does it take some motions for you to kind of get deep to where we peel back the onion and we actually have the authentic self?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a level of trust where you can go in and actually hold somebody accountable like you do.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there is.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's this weird, like uncomfortable phase for like two or three weeks that we're on calls where people are trying to gauge do I know what I'm talking about?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and usually I'm having to make, you know, I make quick split second split decision calls.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm right a lot, um, whether it be through your P ⁇ L or your people decisions or recommendations, or, you know, how I would approach this or how I wouldn't approach this or what kind of problems you're probably having or what kind of problems you're not probably having, or and um you know, I'm not always right, you know, and sometimes uh you know, people it's just not it doesn't it doesn't always hit, right?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the vast majority of times it does.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um but there is this like uncomfortable two or three week period where person's kind of gauging, you know, does is this guy really know what he's talking about?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, there's a distrust in the coach community.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Big time.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh I don't necessarily show you know, uh there's a there's a distrust in people who show better than others, you know, that the suit and tie wearing.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then I intentionally show poorly.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um t-shirt exclusively, yeah, Legos and Star Wars cards in my background.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Come on now, you know, that's just who I am, right?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so the the this this this this thing is uh there's there's just a little bit of uncomfort, you know.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm not cheap.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so um there's a bit of discomfort here.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Am I getting what I paid for?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you give it a couple of weeks, you see what I can do, get me in your corner, have us go through a couple of tough situations, and that's when uh you kind of become a cavalier.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense because there is, you know, I know in any, I mean any relationship, I mean, there's a level of time, you know, that has to pass in order for trust to deepen, you know, and so there there is, and I I think, you know, I do look back on coaches and and facilitators that that I have had in my life, whether it's through, you know, EOS implementation or individual coaches, there, I think you're right.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: There is a little bit of a kind of just feeling each other out period of time, but I think there's always like a catalyst moment, you know, where it's just like, okay, you know, usually the coach pushes, pushes it a little bit further than like has been comfortable.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then at that point it kind of opens up the floodgates to where it's like, okay, like we've got that level of trust.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: And or, oh, that hurt.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't like that, you know.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've actually gotten that point a couple of times where I've pushed too hard and um gone too far.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's always been interesting because um sometimes you can push too hard.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's been equally uncomfortable.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um especially when people are at some of their weakest.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because I deal with uh a lot of CEOs that are in very, you know, in crisis mode.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm not, you know, uh in many cases I feel like a like a CEO therapist.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm not I'm not exclusively dealing with EO, you know, people that are in different stages of EOS.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm about probably half of my clients are just CEOs I'm coaching in a personal level on a weekly basis.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: And in many cases, they're, you know, in crisis mode.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I've you know, I've as an example, I've I've answered a phone call at 11 o'clock at night from a CEO who was threatening to kill himself.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was able to stay on the line long enough to get his wife on the phone and for them to call, you know, a suicide hotline.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: So there's been situations where like I can, you know, it's heavy stuff.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you you could push too hard and crack, you know, break people.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've sadly I've I've pushed when I should have been just listening.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that there is a a level where you can kind of understand?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Is it intuition based, or is there a level of like, okay, I'm factoring in the time, I'm kind of factoring in like how hard I'm pushing.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what helps you understand that line?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's exclusively intuition.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was I don't think there's anything.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're you're reading the signs, you're reading the signals, you're you're you're you have a rapport with somebody.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like knowing w whether or not your wife is mad at you.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's um because I can think back, you know, like all the clients I work with.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um the one thing about consistency with that is it's inconsistent.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's just no way so you have to just kind of um this is one of one of those things again where experience pays all the bills.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not I I I don't joining a franchise and becoming a a coach is I don't know how that helps you one bit.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is there any on the preliminary side and like almost the business development motion?
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's like one of the core competencies we talk about a lot here on the show, is I mean, business development, you gotta be able to do business development.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: But is there a um mental checklist you're kind of like working with?
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like obviously, you may not know the full extent of the crisis uh that that somebody may be in, but is there any kind of mental checklist like green light, red light, you know, that you're kind of going through when you're talking to somebody that's maybe okay, this person isn't checking boxes, maybe they aren't necessarily gonna be right fit to not be opened up or something like.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any of that when you're talking to people?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I think there are a couple of red flags for me.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the red flags are things that people say.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um lack of accountability, lack of willingness to do willingness to be a participant.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Frankly, I've I've been surrounded by terrible leaders my entire career.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I have just a ton of examples of what bad looks like.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so if I hear a lot of those types of words that those those people have shared, I kind of am like probably not a good fit.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think whether or not it's subconscious or not, um, I find myself just distancing myself from those folks, anyways.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: So they don't even get to a point where we would get on a call.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um because I'm not I'm not talking to them about coaching.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not, it's like you, you know, it's like dating almost.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I get to a point where we're talking about going on a date.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's not even that attraction.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, yeah.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's that's a good that's interesting.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is there anything that has changed in your, let's just call it coaching philosophy over the course of you being in this?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like as you've gotten more experience.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that you went in with like uh, this is how it is?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: And now, you know, looking back, you're like, actually.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I came into this thing with like a framework, yeah, and uh this this great plan, and here's how I'm gonna do it, and here's gonna be the steps and the methodology and my process, and yeah, here's how I'm gonna roll through a process.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: And oh boy, did that quickly go out the door.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because what I found out is that um every single situation I was encountering was different, and every single industry I'm encountering is different.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I I am not a uh I'm not in a niche.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm uh industry agnostic.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: So whether it be uh slaughtering cattle or marketing or insurance or IT, I'm I'm dealing with everything.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so um the the industry paves the way the conversations look.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um and furthermore, um the process can't be static.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: We have to be very um open based on the experience level of the individuals for what the rollout needs to look like.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just drop everything on them in day one what that looks like.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: We have to be cognizant of how experienced the people are, what their leadership level looks like, how much they could absorb, how skilled they are, um how skilled the CEO is, that's a huge one.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: Are they super involved with things like leadership books and are they an experienced CEO?
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Are they engaged?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: How many hours are they involved?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's just a ton of different variables associated with it.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: And when you take all of these things into consideration, my perfect process I had, forget about it.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can have uh, I had somebody call um uh I won't give any any like details away, but basically like those that are within a you know, a framework, they're teaching a framework.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like he called them page turners, right?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: Where it's just like, okay, we're you know, at this part of the process, we're on page 37, and this is where you should be at.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like you're working with humans, man.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are you talking about you have no idea, like what, you know, it's so I love that because I've seen that as I've been in with some more like maybe not as experienced coaches, it's like it throws them for a loop if something happens and it's like, oh, you gotta forget all that.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can't even start there.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even I don't even start there, right?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, right, okay, first let's talk to your people.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I start.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start, let's talk to your people.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: Let me absorb them, let me soak up who they are, and then based on those conversations, then we'll understand what our next steps are, right?
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and I basically run through the three key tenants, which is where do we want to go?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: How are we gonna get there?
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then let's get there.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the three key tenants.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and depending on what methodology I approach and how I attack it, that's gonna be based on the people and the industry and so on and so forth.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I I may use many components of one or other methodologies.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I I can't you can't.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I just I've I've tried I've done it too many times.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: It just doesn't, it's it's not, you know, it doesn't fit nicely within a chessboard.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so true.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well man, Pete, this has been awesome, dude.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: I have enjoyed this conversation so much.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned a tremendous amount.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: We've gotten really deep, um, and I love that.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't expect anything less.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but dude, I always like to ask guests on kind of the tail end here.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you could go back to rookie Pete with all the knowledge and experience that you have now, what advice would you give rookie coach Pete?
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh coach Pete or rookie Pete and in just it is however you want to take it.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: The my first thought was rookie career Pete.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll start there because that was just the the where my answer came from.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is uh nobody will ever care about your career.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to care about your career.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that took me about 10 years, maybe 12 years of my life, that um boy, did I waste.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, wasting is a tough word, but um, I felt like I burned through a lot of time.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because no one will ever care uh about you as much as you.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that is absolutely critical.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think from a coaching standpoint, um you know what one of the things that is is just super critical is uh don't take yourself too seriously.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of coaches, that's something um, and I meet a lot of coaches, and boy, it's a very arrogant bunch.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um a lot of ego, uh especially at that senior level.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I've been on this and I've been on that.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, yeah, I don't really care what you've been uh.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't really care what I've been uh.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've been a lot of things and I don't really care what I've been.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: How do you help?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: I play with Star Wars toys and Legos with my kids.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we get along.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, who cares?
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's really I appreciate you sharing that, even from both perspectives.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think both would be relevant either way.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like so um, I I thank you for sharing that.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the second thing I always like to ask is what's a lesson you're in the middle of learning in this current moment.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think this one's probably the tougher one right now.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, the first hardest thing I ever had to learn in my career was how to manage managers.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: That was really hard early on, was manage people that actually cared about their jobs.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: That was super hard as a youngin'.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: The second hardest thing I had to learn was how to manage people remotely, which was really difficult when I became a CEO and I was running people in different regions around the United States.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: That was, you know, very difficult.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: I had territories and, you know, different territories.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: That was really difficult.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: But the third hardest thing, which is what I'm learning right now, is how to duplicate myself.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's been incredibly challenging, is how to lead a company that requires me and scale a company that requires me to be the person that requires scaling.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's challenging, right?
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm a solopreneur and I have VAs and stuff like that, but I'm a solopreneur.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: In order to scale my business, I need to do something more than me be a solo coach or be happy being a solo coach.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then, you know, do you lose that special sauce that you have of being a solo coach?
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, there's books out there like Small Giants.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is should you just be happy being a solo coach for the rest of your life?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can't is that can you just not have a quality of life there?
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: So there's things like that going through your mind, and you know, there's all of these things, right?
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the never-ending I need to make more money, does that matter?
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or can we just be happy having a good quality of life?
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: You uh, you know, we always talk about the the true entrepreneurs are those that can't help but scale beyond themselves.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like that's where you're at.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's, I mean, I feel that because there is, you know, especially in the coaching profession, because it's deeply personal work.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you are the brand, right?
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like you are, you know, coaches get hired because people like them.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and so that's what gets interested.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's I appreciate being vulnerable about that because that is, I think that's a very real thing that a lot of coaches are facing, especially the the ones that maybe aren't necessarily associated with the framework.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I appreciate sharing that, ma'am.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, this has been, I I appreciate this.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: This has been great.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: I um what's a good place to, if somebody maybe wants to pick your brain on something or learn more about you, what's the best place to get in touch with you?
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I, you know, I write a lot.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm on LinkedIn and I've got a newsletter on LinkedIn.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love writing.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've wrote three nonfiction books.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm currently writing my first fiction novel right now.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: That'll be out soon.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I've already finished my fourth fiction uh nonfiction novel that'll be coming out.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: Not novel, but nonfiction book that'll be coming out soon.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, uh www.rolwithpunch.com is my website, or find me on LinkedIn or Facebook for my writing.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I I can attest to the fact that that Pete's a great writer.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've enjoyed his content and also just the the human side that you have.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: You have maintained a level of humility and humanity that I just really appreciate about you specifically.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: You are a prime example that I think, because you're right, this is a very um potentially arrogant profession.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you have a lot of very successful people that transition.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, well, I can make a ton of money helping other people.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, that's a lot of times the focus is we can make a ton of money.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the helping people is sometimes not.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of the byproduct.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you have maintained such an um an incredible reputation.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I think the world of you, and so I appreciate you coming on this show, man.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's been fun.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks, Kim.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you, man.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, cool.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for taking the time and thank you for for staying uh tuning in and listening to this.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: I hope this was helpful.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: I know it was for me.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: We have lots more episodes diving into all things coaching here coming soon.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk to you soon.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: May the force be with you, Cam.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's it for today's episode of the Ambitious Coach Lab.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: My hope is that something here helps you sharpen your craft and keep building a coaching practice you're proud of.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Before we wrap, a quick thank you to our sponsor, 90.
• 53:45
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• 53:51
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• 53:55
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• 54:02
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• 54:09
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• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: Again, that's AC20 for 20% off.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for hanging out with me today.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Cam.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: Cheering on as you grow your ambitious coaching practice.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next time.