Latest / The Growth Class with Phil Masiello / Heritage Branding: Turning Craftsmanship into Long-Term Business Growth with Chris Bray

Transcript

Heritage Branding: Turning Craftsmanship into Long-Term Business Growth with Chris Bray · The Growth Class with Phil Masiello

• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Growth Class.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Phil Mastiello, your host, and today we're diving into the intersection of heritage, craftsmanship, and modern scalability.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thrilled to be joined by Chris Bray, co-founder of the iconic leather and lifestyle brand, Billy Kirk, and the creative engine behind the Bray Brothers Collective.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: So we're going to pull back the curtain on how to maintain quality at scale and why the Bray Brothers approach to business is all about longevity over shortcuts.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Chris, welcome to the show.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for taking the time to come on.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, a pleasure to be here, Phil.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: So why don't you take us back?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: In the pre-call, you told me a great story about how you guys started and uh a little bit about your history.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: So why don't you go into that?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think it was an interesting story for people to hear.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so my brother Kirk and I, we founded the company in 1999.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we come from a pretty creative family, uh very artistic.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and so we were always working with our hands.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it it took a little while until we sort of uh found the catalyst for starting Billy Kirk.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: But that happened in uh Santa Monica, California.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was out there uh trying to become an actor.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Kirk had uh just uh got a degree in uh fashion merchandising.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so we just headed to the West Coast uh from Minnesota.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to get out of the ware and uh and try my hand at acting.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So did that for about 10 years, but finding a watch strap in a pawn shop is what set this all into motion.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if you look at the uh the cyclical nature of the wide watch strap, it it had its you know beginnings and it kept coming back.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like every eight years it came back.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so we were on that sort of tail end.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: It had to have been in the marketplace for a good 10 years.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: You had that sort of punk movement, and then all of a sudden it went to the real cheap, hot topic.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh a few different shops um were selling just cheap garbage, and so it just sort of fell off the map.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when any kid could spend 10 bucks and become a punk rocker, it lost its cool.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So a good 10 years later, we're in a pawn shop and we found one about an inch and a quarter from the early 70s.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And Kirk Kirk basically came to me and said, we should make these.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you pick up the yellow pages, you find uh a leather uh wholesaler, and you hope you'll get a sympathetic ear, and they'll tell you what where you go from here.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we found that in uh Caldell Leather, um uh a guy named Steve, a real sort of hippie throwback, and he sort of gave us uh the ropes or showed us the ropes, uh, what leather to buy, who to who to go to, and we started making them on our own, um, just in our little uh apartment in West Los Angeles, and you know, just creating and trying new prototypes.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then Kirk started wearing uh a couple of these creations and uh at a coffee shop.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: People kept asking about these are kind of cool.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: It hadn't been in the marketplace for 10 years, and uh we're like, you know, this this might have some legs here.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then you get to the point where you're like, okay, we've got a collection, let's do a trade show.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I got jumping the gun a little bit.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: We also met another incredible person named uh Arnold Ahrens, downtown Los Angeles, who is like a third-generation leather crafter.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And he really showed us the roads, like how to put a rivet on a buckle, how to sky leather.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um very integral, to the point where we started, uh well, primarily Kirk, you know, basically under his wing, learning how to do everything.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And from that, we ended up doing the trade shows.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um the big magic trade show that everyone hears about, much more popular back then.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: But you realize, okay, we've got something.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: We wrote, you know, probably six, seven stores, nothing major, but it it sort of put that real light bulb off.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: We can make these.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: There's people that are gonna want these.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, from that, not long after you're making belts.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's a long watch draw.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you're doing smaller leather goods and figuring out how that's all made.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: But with an eye towards real classic, not necessarily trend-driven designs.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Stuff that's gonna, you know, remain.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I I think I would wear pretty much everything we've created, and I wouldn't feel uh like this is uh out of style.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe with a couple exceptions.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but most of it is just well crafted, understated.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's sort of meant to blend in with what you're wearing.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and, you know, and it just spun off about until you get your own design studio, you start to buy machinery, you start to hire people, you start to get the bigger orders, even big box retailers.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that's kind of where we we eventually moved to the east coast and and brought everything from the west coast to the east coast.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so who do you primarily sell to?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so yeah, we are primarily direct-to-consumer business now.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um we used to do a lot more wholesale.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: We do have some select kind of key wholesale accounts, but that's where our our our money and marketing dollars, digital dollars, are are really going into drive people to the website.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And but then since then you've sort of evolved.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, we're talking 27 years.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: We've gone through lots of turmoil, global turmoil, but through that, you know, we started to get companies asking us to create things for them.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: We already had this template, we've been created beautiful stuff that lasts, wears in.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Can I can get something made from you guys?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Can we collaborate?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we really haven't stopped collaborating with businesses, um, from Vans to Levi's to um you know J.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Crew to now working with uh Alex Mill, uh, which is the the son of Mickey Drexler.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you have this connection that's expanded over 15 years.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: So from that, we started to recognize a whole nother business model where people wanted not only quality, well-made items that reflect better on their company, uh, specifically the sort of corporate gifting industry, where so much of this billions of dollars is literally just future landfill clutter.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's really a sad reality of just over commercialism.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we wanted to create a brand, and that's Bray Brothers creative, that addresses just over it's it's a model that it has no creativity.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you get handed another water bottle, it it's it's that doesn't reflect well on you.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: There's no creativity.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm laughing because I uh I do triathlons and I run and I cycle, right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I do races.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: My wife, she runs races, and we just redid our kitchen about a year ago.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: And when we were cleaning out the kitchen, we literally had one entire cabinet full of just logoed water bottles from races that we, you know, there's only so many you can use, and we just had tons of them, and you know, wound up taking them to Goodwill and hoping somebody took them.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's where they go.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it it to me it's an offensive thing to get them, um because it just it it lacks all sort of like it's like you gave this no thought.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you could say the same about just the the cheat totes that are out there and just the other just Totsky garbage.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and so that's why Bray Brothers Created exists, to sort of fill that void.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's still sort of niche, but we can work with all price points, and we can develop something that when you hand it to the person, they're gonna be like, this is actually this is really well made.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something you're gonna use.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so now you've got a customer that's like, wow, this this company, I guess, sort of respects me a little bit more.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: They're giving me something that's well made.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna use it.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that filled a great void for us, but also we started to do these great experiential events with the product.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: We've gone all over the world, Japan, Mexico, we've been to Ireland, then to England with our heat stamp machines for these fun events.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, golf resorts are huge.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the tournaments, you'll go to a really nice golf course with, let's say, a financial company.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: We make these beautiful golf-related items for the financial company.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're then on site stamping golf bag tags, scorecard holders for the tournament players, the attendees.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: These are the employees that mean something, or they're guests of a resort that uh that means something.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: So then they get to see their names being stamped into these items, get it handed to them, uh, and away they go.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, we've even been on the ninth course at Liberty National uh uh for a pro am event.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the guys get off the golf board, they walk past our table, I get their name initials, they tee off as they walk back, I hand the item stamped with their name as they go back to the golf cart.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Just like that.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: So this is just another thing that just sets us apart, and it's why we've just been really busy with this Bray Brothers creator.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're doing in-room design for resorts.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: These are companies that want touch points that aren't just off the shelf.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're talking a do not disturb sign that goes through three iterations before they are happy with it.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: So when you approach that door, you see this do not disturb so I said, that's different.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Instagrammable, right?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: So inside we're doing stitch jewelry boxes, leather boxes for hairdryers, menus, you know, creative stationery holders, not just that little plastic thing with some loose paper.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Something that they they don't notice.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: That then goes into a lot of these gift shops at the hotels.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um just is another um you know, added value, that sort of thing.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been really fun to see that sort of evolve and just the fun things we've been doing with that, you know.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, uh you're you're 100% right.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's I remember when I got out of graduate school and I went to work for this company, and this is before, I mean, we had cell phones, but we didn't have iPhones, we didn't have everything on the phone.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I remember when I first went to work for them, you know, we were still using day timers, you know, we were still right now, and they gave me this leather day timer holder with my initials stamped in it.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and I mean I don't use I haven't used it in 27 years, but I still have it because I can't part with it.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: I can't throw it away.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: It it means something, right?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: You get your name stamped on it.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh that's kind of cool.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's nice.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a it's a nice piece of leather and it's I mean, I I use it, you know, I use it as a I store documents in it and it sits in the little you know, the little lockbox.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: But um yeah, it's uh it's just a nice uh it's a nice piece.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I often wondered if I could figure f if I could fix figure out how to transition that into a passport holder.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, you know.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, on b at the Billy Kirk website, inst you know, putting monograms on items is like a big deal.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's 20% of our product they'll ask for monogramming.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: We also have a a little retail footprint in our studio and we do a lot of gifts, bottletotes, card cases, valet trays.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: I just want name stamped on it.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean it's uh I think when it's when it's personalized, um you know, uh I think when it's personalized, it becomes a lot harder to um you sort of throw away, right?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh and it and it does, it means something, especially when it's really good quality.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a uh there's a guy in California I can't remember his name.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: He was on the show and I can't remember his his name or his brand, but it'll come to me.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: But he um he uh he manufactures uh clothing for predominantly men.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: And his whole thesis is he doesn't follow trends, he doesn't worry about you know what's in and out of style, he builds timeless classic men's clothing, leather jackets that you're gonna want to pass down to your child, you know, and they're gonna want to pass it down, and you know, and he guarantees it for life and you know all that stuff.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I I think there is a a movement for people to want things that are that last and aren't disposable.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: No question about it.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I have a couple kids that have sort of grown up in this fast fashion um world.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it it's it's pretty it's pretty sad.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's that sort of initial feeling of saving a few bucks only to have this thing basically fall apart after three washes.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um but because the price is so cheap, it's like, oh, oh well, you know, and so I I try to impart on them, it's like you really want to buy stuff that lasts.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm wearing a belt that I think I've had for 20 years.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now, maybe that's counterintuitive to a leather fist is stuff that lasts, but you'd be surprised at how many customers have that same belt in three colors.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so I'd rather create things that last and wear in well than, you know, after five years, they're you know, it's gone.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it just makes no sense to me.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we've had comp uh customers that will literally email me photos of their well-worn item just to say like how important this is to me.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just it's kind of wild.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, and I've I've had people send the item to me and have them take a photo with a large-scale Campbell with our friend Tatsuros, great photographer.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I have countless images of well-worn Billy Kirk items that I'll eventually probably put in a book or something.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's just something about that connection.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, at first it starts as pure utility, it becomes relied upon, and with a little luck, this little item can become revered.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's like getting a pair of boots or uh an old denim jacket passed down to you.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: That means something.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: So this sort of heirloom quality is not lost on me, man.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've written notes of provenance to people parents who literally said, I want to have a note in this wallet made by, you know, whoever made this.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Can you sign a little note of providence?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because when I pass it down, you're not getting that sort of connection with a big box retailer.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Guaranteed you're not.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that sort of stuff keeps the light on over here, man.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: It keeps us excited.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, I I think it works with like a lot of different things, but in some areas it just doesn't work because uh let me let me think about how to how to say this.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'll use an example.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: My son, when he was young, you know, playing little league, right?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I had my little league gloves or my baseball gloves from when I was a kid.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, you know, here you can you can have these.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: But he didn't want them because they're so he's not gonna use them because they're so different than today's gloves, right?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: And uh just like bats are completely different and they want the the best.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you know, we kept it and he he sees now the value in it because I also kept his little league gloves, right?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, you know, you're gonna want to give all this to your kid someday, you know.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you know, it's not that they're gonna use it just to have it uh as a sort of uh a a remembrance of it, you know.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: But just there's technology uh supersedes obsolescence.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, let's face it.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's some of these ball gloves are um certainly a little bit more superior than our old Wilsons and Rawlings we used to use, and of course the bats, the technology.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that's gonna be hard.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, like getting my dad's old boots, uh that's a that's a big deal, you know, or old belt of his or something like that, or his old flight jacket from um uh military police, that's that'll be passed down.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, let's face it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: So um I uh nostalgia, those sorts of things are are very are important to me for sure.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think they're important to a lot of people, especially in this day and age.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the whole like uh uh Timu Sheehan model of you know, cheap stuff delivered, it's basically disposable.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it's beyond fast fashion because I think it's made to be disposable.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you get it, it costs you like six dollars, you use it once, and then you're like throwing it away.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, it just doesn't work.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: My daughter is a big thrifter because she doesn't believe in um buying anything new today.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And she she rides horses.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: She's a vegan and she rides horses, but she doesn't believe in buying new leather, and all the saddles have to be leather, or they should be leather.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: So she buys she's okay with buying old saddles and then reconditioning them so that they fit the horse.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: But uh I love that.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: She's she's uh but she she won't spend she won't spend a dime on anything unless uh you know she's the cheapest person.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: But she loves to go thrifting because she'll find stuff, you know.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: This is a$200 jacket that I got for you know$10.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it still had the tags on it.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you're going to be able to do that.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, look, that hunt is um addicting, and my kids are the same way.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: If they find an old champion sweatshirt or something, it's like it's like the holy grail, you know.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: They are after it.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I appreciate that, you know.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um most of our a lot of our inspiration comes From you know vintage, uh militaria, equestrian, um, some of our best-selling items um and belts, they have a fun story.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, if you go to Billy Kirk.com and click on the journal, our flog, you'll you'll hear about the history of our claw buckle belt, which is directly related to a World War I rifle sling, the M1907.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: We the piece of hardware, we found this, and like this is really ingenious piece of hardware.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we had it cast, it's still made in Rhode Island after 20 plus years, and it's one of our best-selling belts, but it has a cool story.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think all that stuff's important.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think it's uh it's great.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, so what's next?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: What are what's what's on the horizon?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's uh you know, Billy Kirk continues to churn out well-crafted accessories and bags and belts.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have gotten away a little bit from that real sort of firm established heritage designs and have gotten more, I guess, sophisticated, a little bit more minimalistic in our look.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we saw a massive drop in our larger briefcases after COVID, understandably.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so we pivoted to these more thin um wax canvas, lightweight, just built for your laptop and a few other things.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that that has really uh been a driver for us.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of our most popular briefcases prior to COVID was called the School Boy Satchel, which had elements of a World War II Swiss uh medic bag, um, and also a Belgian map case.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: That these pieces of hardware we sort of borrowed from those designed to create this, and we're getting ready to launch a thinner version of our schoolboy satchel, which I'm pretty excited about.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, we've got some new totes, we've got uh new cordium watchdraft designs coming out.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's the the the the Bray Brothers universe too is just no sign of stopping.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: We've probably got three hotel projects we're working on, restaurants, uh, you know, that sort of front of house finery from servers wallets to menus, and just these uh these in rich fun activation events that we've been doing now for a good seven or eight years.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um we often do the Yale CEO Summit, which you might have heard of.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um we've got uh a couple new golf course projects that we're working on for these experiential events, and so that's that's keeping us excited, you know, those sort of uh efforts.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: So people want to buy your products, Billykirk.com?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Billy Kirk.com.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh the Bray BrothersCreative.com is where you could go for you know our corporate gifting, our design services.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: All right, man.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I appreciate you taking the time to come on today.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: We're pretty much out of time, but uh, you know, I think that uh again, we've been speaking to Chris Bray, Billy Kirk, Billy Kirk.com if you're interested.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then the the Bray Brothers creative.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's if you're you know, if you're a hotel or if you're a business and you want to give a gift, instead of just a water bottle or a shirt, you know, give them something uh that's a little bit more creative.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what the minimums are, but I'm sure he can work with you.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: We we work with all minimums and pretty much all budgets.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, uh go check it out, see what you like, and uh and thanks again, Chris, for taking the time to come on.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, it's great to be here, Phil.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: All right, take care.