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Nancy Peterson | The Christian Reeve Podcast #205 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
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podcast. Today's guest is an
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award-winning and narrator from Utah.
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She's goes by the name of Nancy Petersen, welcome to the show.
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How you doing? Thanks Christian.
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I am happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
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It's a pleasure to have you on the show.
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I am a voice. Actor an actor.
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So there's a bit of crossover here.
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I'm quite I'm very intrigued, to pick your brains about this
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answer. Any questions you have for me.
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Wait, I can't wait, I can't wait.
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And let's just start at the beginning.
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I like to sort of start there. Talk us through your personal
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journey of becoming a narrator and how this came to be well,
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tell which version do you want the short or the long?
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Because there's there's a, there's a long version, which
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kind of, well, I'll give you the long version as you can edit it
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right. It work it work for podcast.
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I I I like to go look. So I was about 3 years old.
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When my father sustained an injury to his eyes and as a
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result, he at the time, the surgery they did was was very
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different. He had to remain in bed with
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sandbags next to his head for three months and this happened
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twice. So he when we couldn't disturb
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him, we couldn't like you know, bother him.
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He had to just stay as perfectly still as He possibly could.
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So as a result, then the local Society for the blind, I believe
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it was called at the time. I don't know what it's called.
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Now would send him materials. A lot of them.
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They were about this big and they were square, and they were
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like records, but they were floppy, you know, just a little
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piece of plastic, you would put on your record player, you could
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listen to Time magazine or Reader's Digest or periodicals
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or novels. So, I would sneak in very
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carefully and listen with my dad and I of course, I I want to, I
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want to be very gentle, but I think that's really where I
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would just sit quietly. Listen, it was very comforting
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and this, you know, I just felt like it was a very, very
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comfortable place for me to meet to be and then fast forward a
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couple of years, and a lot of the things I would listen to on
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record. You know, and growing up
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cassette audio was a great format for me for learning for
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comprehension, and I just really enjoyed it.
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So, So being someone who has been performing since, you know,
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I was 10 or so years old, and various capacities of
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transitioning to audiobooks was something that I had.
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I just been curious about honestly.
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And then in 2013 I just basically Googled it and found
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there was really nothing there except for one little remote
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site called AC x.com and that you probably have heard of that
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by now. I think it was two years old.
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It had started in 2011, And so it wasn't widely known but it
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was for me, I don't see how otherwise I could have gotten
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into audio books because yes, I am in Utah.
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Most of the audiobook people at the time were wherever the
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Publishers were, which was Michigan.
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Oregon, the east or west coast. So, and I think one in Ohio,
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maybe but, you know, it was interesting.
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Because for me, it was a way to Break into the industry.
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And so I'm grateful for it. A CX kind of gets a bad rap
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sometimes because the quality control is not as, as good as it
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should be, but for me, I'm grateful for it.
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So that's there you go. Thank you for sharing.
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Well, you mentioned as well, to be honest.
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I can't think of any like immediate competitors days.
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He acts. Like it seems that a CX is like
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the kind of the standard, but because there's no sense.
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There's a reason for that. A CX is actually the same
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company as audible. It's also the same company as
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Amazon, they're all basically the same company.
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So you hear more about a CX because, well, they kind of
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pioneered it to begin with. I think there have been others
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but if you think about it, audible is it's in their best
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interest to get content. That's really what they want to
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do. So this works for Them because
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it, it just creates content for their for Audible and Amazon.
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That makes sense because it's like homegrown, so they don't
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have to pay as much. Well, they have to pay anything
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to create that generate their content.
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They can just get that content as opposed to say, purchasing
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your off, whoever like it, for instance, I imagine.
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If they do like a Harry Potter novel, you have to pay rights
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for that to use that the likenesses everything like that
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must be well enough. Honorable, it's, I don't know if
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I don't know the proper term to call it, it's like a
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distribution platform, but it's also an aggregator, but they
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have a studio audible Studios, which is a, you know, like
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they're their production arm of audible.
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But yeah, they what they have provided mostly is a platform
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for four people for Publishers and probably honestly Publishers
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have their they don't go through a superior.
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CX, that's more for independent authors.
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People who don't have, you know, a publisher because they have
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their own agreements with audible, but I think they just,
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yeah, they just saw it as an opportunity.
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When the explosion of Indie authors was just happening,
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they're like, well, these could be in audio format.
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People ask for it and probably already know this, but the audio
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industry. Every year, has had double-digit
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growth. It's amazing.
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If you go to Publishers Weekly, they always do kind of a year.
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In review of audiobooks in the the growth of audiobooks, it
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just it's continues to grow and that's not the case with with
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every format like ebooks are down.
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I think print books, I'm not sure about print, but audiobooks
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just, you know, people want audio.
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So, yes, an interesting time because I think What one thing
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you could certainly say is that like reading as a former just in
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general as a format, like, everyday we're reading all the
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time, their beer would like our phones books, whatever else so
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you're never not reading. But then, of course, we now live
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in an age where, you know, there are options have ways to help
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people say with dyslexia and, and such.
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And so I think like audiobooks are a nice way to kind of get
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around that as well. Like, if you You really, really
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are suffering with dyslexia. And it's something that, you
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know, it's just too difficult to constant that consistently read,
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then you've got that option. Plus, I don't know, like, I feel
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like with audiobooks. It kind of brings it more to
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life, of course, you've got film and stuff, but it's, you can
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still kind of use your imagination, but then little
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bits of it are filled in for you as well.
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So, it's kind of like, Like other the best example I can
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think of is there's this 1980s version of Lord of the Rings I
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think it was produced by the BBC and to me it's like it's diff is
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very different to the films but it's got like a certain charm
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about it. I can't really explain but they
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these actors like really really went out of their way to like
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make it an experience. You know and you can tell like
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it's very they probably didn't have Very big budget at the time
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and I don't know, like, I really employ.
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Anyone who's listening to this show, go out of your way to
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check it out because it still holds up.
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And it's a good example of. Like when you really go for it
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with an audiobook, that's what it can be.
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Yeah. Well, an audio is interesting
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because there is quite a range sounds to me.
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Like what you're describing is like an audio drama or I'm
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sorry. Yes.
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So which actually is is one branch of audio books, then you
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You have others where you have one person doing all of it.
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But I think it's still it's a different form of audio, but I
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think each one kind of has its own if it's a good story and the
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story is being told. Well, it's like you're watching
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a movie at least it is for me. So like in my case, one of the
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one that comes to my mind that is similar to that is murder on
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the Orient Express and I had a cassette and this would have
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been probably 25 years ago. Or something like that, but full
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cast. And there are, I mean, you're
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seeing more and more multicast. I've been a part of to multicast
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in the last month, and that's always really fun.
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My part of a, you know, obviously is much smaller, but
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those, the production value are lot more fun.
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The other thing that for specific, do you'll start to
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hear and sometimes in those Audio Drama, sorry, sorry.
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I forgot this in those audio. Dramas sometimes they will
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include sound effects, or music. And a good example of that is
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cereal box. They do like a full audio
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production so that's, that's even.
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I don't even know if that's still Audio Drama.
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Anyway, so you get these various types of audio storytelling and
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yeah, I mean if it's done well those are amazing to listen to.
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So I typically I don't do a lot of Audio Drama, there are some
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people who that is sort of there.
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Sure thing and they do a lot of it and I have a company, you
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know, sound booth, theater is a company.
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They do a lot of Audio Drama and audio, you know, full on audio
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production with sound effects, Etc.
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So sometimes music is added at the intro and outro, but a lot
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of the things I do are more just the, you know, reading.
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But I'm going to tell you a little secret here that I think
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is fascinating. One of my favorite, pardon me
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books. Series out there.
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As I need a sip of water. Hang on, doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo
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doo-doo-doo-doo-doo. Okay.
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The series is Flavia deluce. It's set in a little town
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somewhere. In the UK, the main character is
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an 11 year old girl, Flavia to lose, its read.
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The audio books are read by Jane Entwistle and I don't know if
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you've ever heard of any of her work, she's amazing.
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I listened to those. I get.
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I'm one of those people that I will.
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It's like a comfort for me. Like, I'll listen to the same
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thing sometimes over and over, especially when I'm doing
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something like you know, that That is what I'm doing, crafts
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serve knitting or whatever. I like to listen to my favorite
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audiobooks. Why?
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I don't know. It's just me but I would listen
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to those over and over and when I started considering well you
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know I want to look into doing audio book narration for myself.
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I started listening differently to those books and It was
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fascinating to listen with a different year because what I
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realized is Jane Entwistle. I really saw saw the like, a
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movie in my mind with one person.
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And I'm like, man, she can do, all these different voices.
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She's amazing. And then, as I listened more
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closely, I realized that it was less about the fact that she
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didn't sound like a 50 year old man.
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Because she's not, you know, she doesn't really sound like that.
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She did use pace and tone, but what she did is she created an
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opportunity for my mind to fill in those blanks seamlessly.
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So that to me is like a mark of a fabulous story.
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Teller is someone who allows The Listener to, to create something
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that's unique. It's uniquely theirs in a way to
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because, you know, I have, I have pictures in my mind about
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what they Look like and where they live and you know, that's
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done with the combination of those words and a really good
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narrator as teller of stories can do that for you.
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So because you know, when we try and do the voices, they can
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either come off as like caricature or they don't sound
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like a real person and you're like, you know, they sound fake.
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And they, they just don't, it doesn't work it like, this can
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be jarring even, but just a slight shift in tone, a slight
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change in pacing, or a Front physicality will will actually
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you know change enough so that you know you The Listener will
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buy it. So yeah I mean like you know you
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know I'm not a six-year-old kid or a 13 year old girl or of 80
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year old man but I hope when someone listens they can see and
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hear and really by the fact that that's really who is talking and
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I'm trying not to make them a caricature.
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You know, there are like a real person.
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In fact, I'm going to say something that PJ Oakland A
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Fabulous Coach. Who I just is amazing.
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He often will say commit. Don't comment what he means by.
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That is when you're, when you're in these characters, you are
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committing to the actual like, how are they feeling, where are
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they from? What is their background?
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Do they have anything that that is a weakness to?
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They have things, they Love bring all those things into your
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mind into the character, you're portraying.
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And don't do a commentary on the person because they do be tend
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to become more of a caricature. So it works better in, it will
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pull your audience in the listener in if you are invested
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you know what I mean? And you are you are it's not
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about putting a character on or doing a voice.
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It's so much more than doing a voice.
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I hope I'm explaining this well Absolutely nurse is fascinating,
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as always, I have a million questions, but I think I think
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the most kind of logical question, I have right now is
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what, what it, what exactly is your preparation process for
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approaching an audiobook and like I did you read the whole
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book beforehand, you read sections of it.
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Do you just focus on the characters together?
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Know the idea of them are what's your process, okay.
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Um, there are many, I mean you talk to narrators and you'll get
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different answers from everyone, but I think the most common, the
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common answer would be. Yes we do read it ahead of time.
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Well that happens is going to be different and how we use that is
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going to be different. Some people like if they have
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there's a really tight schedule they will hire someone to read
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for them and then they receive basically a book report.
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With chapter breakdowns character, breakdowns arcs, they
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will inform them of any surprises or anything that, you
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know, you don't like halfway through the book, you find out.
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Someone's got an accent that they didn't even talk about it
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all until the first half of the book, they'll they will create
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for you the lists, the information so that you go into
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this knowing what it is that you are reading and the Arc of the
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story as well. And so, Cause that's really
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helpful. I typically will do my own
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prepping and I think most of us do we sometimes have to hire
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researchers? If there are a lot of words that
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are either foreign or difficult or scientific, you know, every
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sort of industry has its own lingo.
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So sometimes you have to hire an expert in a certain field to
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help you with that, especially in nonfiction for me.
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A lot of people will go through and they will Mark every
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character on a fiction piece. Different colors and that's
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helpful for them. Me, it is not the, I don't like
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having a lot of marks on my manuscript.
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It actually takes me out of the story a little bit.
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So for me, the only things I will do with the actual
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manuscript. Is if there's a word, I don't
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know. It's highlighted and then I have
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my list and I can go to the list of research words that have
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already been prepared that either.
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I prefer it prepared or a researcher has prepared and
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there are some amazing researchers out there.
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I had something one time that Like I don't even know.
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Is it a letter of the alphabet? I couldn't figure out what it
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was. It didn't look familiar at all.
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It was a symbol and come to find out.
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It was that Greek letter Phi? It didn't look like the Greek
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letter Phi to me. I don't know what it was.
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Just this unusual symbol on the page will come to find out the
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researcher did her job. She said that is the symbol Phi
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and this is what it means and she in this context of like a
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neuroscientific you know she was able to find it out and so I
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could put it in without it sounding out of place or Or you
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know like I didn't know how I was talking about and there I
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will say there are times. When we as narrators we're
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reading words and we really don't have an idea what we're
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saying that has happened, you know, because the words are
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completely like it is it's like a super scientific.
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Peace. And it's like, I don't even know
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what I just said. So hopefully, you know, with the
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right preparation, you can go through in some like we know
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we're saying, have you had to instance, where maybe the
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dialogue was made up a made-up language?
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And you had to kind of give it some conviction, even though it
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doesn't exist, that happens a lot in fantasy.
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I haven't done a lot of fantasy, but yes, and that's kind of fun
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and usually the author has something very specific in mind.
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So I Add one author that I worked with.
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This is a middle grade fantasy. That she was very specific about
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things how they needed to be said.
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So she actually sent me a recording of her saying these
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words and how she wanted them to be said.
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So that was really fun because usually in fantasy you get to
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make up, you know, accents are you get to make up characters
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and you can go push a little bit farther and they don't have to
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be perfect, right? You Can just it's totally your
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creation really at, but the Run. Well that's that's the main
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thing. It is that as it's fun.
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It's but I think I think the thing that kind of fascinates me
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the most about what it is that you do is that you know, the
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amount of time it takes in the preparation and such like right
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there, you telling us about the whole research angle.
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I never would have known that. I hadn't asked you that like I
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mean it seems perfectly logical as well.
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If you're doing this, they say several times in a month.
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Let's say you go read, I don't know, six seven books, you got
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to do all this by the end of the month, and they're each.
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Like to 3,000 words or more. So way more than that.
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I there's they say 5,000 Pages or something crazy like that.
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Like, did you have to do that? Here you go.
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I mean, you don't have the time to sit and read it as well as
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great as that would be. It's suppose you don't you don't
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always get that luxury and then therein lies.
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You know how you approach it suppose when you were training
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to do this, that what were the kind of mean lessons that you
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had to learn That is a fabulous question because there really
19:48
is, no like certification out there or any sort of even so,
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you know. There's no like, you know, you a
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dentist or a lawyer, you have certain tests, you have to pass
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with this, you really don't, which is great.
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I mean, a lot of people this is their second career.
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However You do have to manage to understand specifications for
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audio if you don't have that knowledge.
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You have to learn it and there are a lot of ways to learn it.
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I mean to start out with, you know, there are people on
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YouTube who can say try this course for a CX or whatever a CX
20:38
is probably the minimum standard you want to use, but, you know,
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but there are other tools. For example, there is a there is
20:47
a A a tool called second opinion and you can just Google second
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opinion. Audiobook.
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And it's developed by Steven. J Cohen.
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Who's a fabulous narrator and he's also a producer.
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It will check your audio for you but you have to learn what these
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mean and if most of us have come from a sort of more of a
21:11
creative background, you know, we've done some sort of
21:13
performance typically. So all of this is again like
21:16
learning a foreign language and that's really important.
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Because those if you don't meet those specs, you can do a whole
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book and if it doesn't meet the specs, you can't use it.
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So that is probably the first place to go.
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Is what are the specs required to submit to either a CX or
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another platform? You know, we have Spotify now
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which is find a way voices, audiobooks Unleashed.
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I use spoken Realms a lot, I can just Steven Cohen is, is the
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owner of that and so I will do books through them when they're
21:46
my production or a CX. So Did that even answer the
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question I'm thinking about is totally like, yeah.
21:54
So and along with that, you know, honestly anyone could do
22:00
it, they could attempt it. No one's going to say, I don't
22:05
think anyone could do it, and that's not to say that I don't
22:08
believe in people's ability but I mean, okay, I've never
22:12
personally done narration but I have attempted it, just like
22:17
that for fun here and there and it's so different from voice
22:22
acting and voiceovers everything else.
22:24
Like it's, it's a whole other world and I just knew in the few
22:28
times that I just trialed it. I was like, nah, this takes
22:32
certain, this is like a whole other world, that's that's why.
22:35
For instance, whenever I talk about voice acting voice overs,
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I say that it's different from acting because it is, it's like
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A whole whelmed unto itself and I think Auden audio narration is
22:45
another Avenue that's its own world because it's you just
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can't approach it the same way and that was for me just trying
22:53
a little bit you've been doing it for what 13 years over 13
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years her now it was 2013 when I was sorry 10 years my first book
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but ya know that what you're saying is spot on.
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And it isn't for everyone, you know, for many reasons and it's
23:13
disappointing because a lot of these get-rich-quick people will
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say, look, you can make this much money on AC acts.
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It's like, no, you're crushing people's dreams, don't even go
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there, but what? Yeah, so one time I, I was
23:29
looking into this and I was negotiating with someone to do
23:32
an audio book and they were laying out what their
23:35
expectations were and that the time it clashed with certain
23:38
things that I was doing. So, unfortunately, I can do it,
23:41
but I was looking at, like, their daily expectation because
23:45
I thought it was the sort of thing I could do in increments
23:49
or something like that. I don't know.
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And I'm sure you can, but this particular person was asking, I
23:56
do sort of a Monday to Friday, type deal, several hours.
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And I just knew like I couldn't do that.
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I need rest side. I like because I know that from
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my voice acting and acting work like You need that you need time
24:08
away. Gosh with podcasting.
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I know that there's a certain amount I can do before.
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I'm like okay I'd like no no more.
24:17
I think the longest show we ever did was like three hours and
24:20
that was insane. I don't know how people do shows
24:23
like that regularly like I tend to average somewhere around an
24:27
hour and a half, but that's enough for me, even let the dog.
24:30
But that long is just like, oh, I don't know how you do it.
24:34
Well it is very physical. And part of that for every I
24:39
mean it's they but they can even break it down.
24:41
You can find, you know, studies on this for every hour with a
24:47
healthy voice for every hour of speaking, you should take a
24:50
ten-minute non-speaking, rest. That's just if everything's
24:53
great. If you start to get a cold or
24:56
you have problems, it is vocal total, vocal rest.
25:00
The other thing I do is I have a humidifier in my booth that I
25:04
try and have my little Hygrometer that tells me the
25:09
humidity and my booth and that is for vocal health.
25:13
Because and it also reduces mouth noise, which is a big deal
25:17
in audio books. Like if I used to, I've done,
25:19
you know, I'll form a lot of forms of v-0 over my career.
25:22
But in audio books, you can't go through.
25:26
Like, you can a 30-second spot, remove all the breaths, remove,
25:30
all the mouse mouth noise because it doesn't take that
25:32
long to do a 30-second spot. We got a 13-hour book, you know,
25:37
The editing and proofing time. After the fact it is it is very
25:42
laborious. And here's the other thing, you
25:45
know, people say audio books are like they don't pay well well
25:49
there is a lot of Truth to that actually because as far as vo
25:52
work, audiobook work is probably the least well-paying in the
25:57
bunch. The thing that's nice though is
25:59
is super consistent. So I pretty much work full time
26:04
and you don't always have that opportunity in other Terms of
26:07
VoiceOver. But yeah, you have to have a
26:09
very quiet space. That's also you know in a
26:11
30-second spot you can that your throw on some music and some
26:16
other things that the space isn't as, as important, it's
26:20
important. I'm not saying it's not
26:22
important, but it's, you know, at well-treated space is one of
26:27
the very first things you have to have for an audiobook because
26:31
you just, otherwise people can't listen for an extended period of
26:33
time, you know? Yeah, I have to come back to
26:36
that. I can't listen to that whole
26:40
sitting of that. I don't like it, that's just me.
26:42
But I like I like that coming in and out.
26:44
Like, I remember listening to because the Martian audiobook
26:49
and I watch the film later on. And I have to say for anyone
26:52
that hasn't listened to the audiobook miles better than the
26:55
film, like it's if anything, the film doesn't quite do it.
26:58
Justice it does. It's a good attempt.
27:01
But the audiobook really kind of gives you a an extended kind of
27:07
In of what that would feel like an what it would be like, and
27:09
stuff. And I think that's just a
27:12
versions of the Martian, by the way, there's the original, which
27:16
was narrated by RC Bray, and I have that one, and then Wil
27:21
Wheaton did the next bought out the contract and Wil Wheaton,
27:25
but that out and did ended the narration.
27:27
He didn't buy it out. He did the narration, I don't
27:29
know who bought it. Someone bought it back and Andre
27:34
did it. I have the original RC brand.
27:35
I think he is fabulous. I just want to listen to, oh, he
27:40
is like a rock star. He is so good and he, you know,
27:43
he's an interesting. A lot of narrators have very
27:46
similar Beginnings, especially if we've been in it for a long
27:49
time. Because we were the people out
27:51
there going, we want to get into this.
27:52
How do we do it and we're just cold calling, you know,
27:55
Publishers so interesting. I think that's maybe how he got
28:01
it. You know, I shouldn't speak for
28:02
him. The base interesting.
28:05
Like, it's a good question. Question because I feel the same
28:08
about voice acting and voiceovers.
28:10
Like when people ask me that, like how did you get into that?
28:12
To be honest. Do you just apply for stuff?
28:16
You just put yourself out there and you hope for the best and
28:18
sometimes you get approached by big Productions but it's like
28:22
you keep doing it. You build up something and
28:25
eventually you get somewhere else and it's like I've been
28:28
pursuing acting since 2019 and I'm only now, really starting to
28:32
get projects but it's still constantly chasing all the time.
28:36
Chasing chasing chasing. Jason independent Contracting
28:39
work. Is that is your life?
28:41
It's uh it's what it is. I don't know if you ever get to
28:44
a place unless you get a lot of recognition that you're never
28:48
really having to at least some point hustle.
28:52
And there is there is that. But there you hopefully it times
28:55
two, you can Coast a little bit but yeah, we're all independent
28:59
contractors. Yeah, it's a space fun.
29:02
I don't know. Like every now and again I'll
29:03
sit there not to like this is what I do for a living.
29:06
This is awesome. But yeah there is a tremendous
29:09
amount of hustling maybe more so than a standard 9 to 5 but you
29:13
know I don't know. It's just it is what it is.
29:15
Isn't it? What would you say are the main
29:21
qualities of a good narrator? Okay.
29:27
Well, I think someone who is okay, being alone for a long
29:33
time, organist be practical. Because as you discovered, its I
29:41
spend a lot of time in here right by myself.
29:45
Self directing, most of the time sometimes I have a director
29:49
that's live with me most the time I don't and you have to be
29:55
able, it's very different from just reading a book.
29:57
So, like right now, the book I have right in front of me.
30:00
Manuscript that has a good portion of French words, a good
30:07
portion of Vietnamese and African words.
30:09
This is a nonfiction and so I'm stopping every paragraph.
30:14
Even if I've done all my research, I'm stopping referring
30:17
back to my notes, to make sure I'm saying the words correctly,
30:20
the ones that I don't know. French.
30:22
I'm pretty good with with French but Vietnamese, I really don't
30:26
know at all and I don't know any of that the African dialect.
30:30
X is why I have to keep looking those up.
30:32
So I'm stopping every 30 seconds to one minute, refreshing.
30:37
Making sure I'm saying things correctly and if I make a
30:40
mistake, I have to stop and go back.
30:44
And that's really now industry standard.
30:46
It hasn't always been like before, you know, especially
30:49
when people were working in studio, they get the book or the
30:53
pages in front of them, which we is All Digital now.
30:56
But they would, as they would read, if they made a mistake,
30:59
they would stop. You know, and just make a noise
31:02
like a clap or a clicker, or if they have an editor, the editor
31:06
will mark it and they have to go again and they have this big
31:10
long piece, you know that it's going to have to be edited out.
31:15
That is not as common anymore, as people working out of their
31:19
home Studios. And what Publishers are asking
31:21
of us is basically what's called punch and roll editing or pre
31:25
edited audio. So like right now I'm going
31:28
through. And if I if I make a mistake
31:30
Steak. I'm going to stop.
31:32
I'm going to reverse it to where the mistake was.
31:34
I'm going to reread it as best I can.
31:37
I don't catch everything and they'll send me Corrections.
31:39
And I'm gonna have to go through it again, but I'm not sending
31:42
them. One long track of everything.
31:44
It's a pre-edited track. And, like I said, most
31:47
Publishers now, they want that punch and roll.
31:50
They don't want long form. There is there are exceptions to
31:53
that, but most the time it's clean punch and roll.
31:56
So you're sending them a pre-edited.
32:00
Product. It doesn't have all the takes in
32:02
it. You have to have the one take
32:04
that you decide you want and send it out that way when it
32:07
comes. Yeah.
32:08
Yeah. Thank you so much.
32:10
I think I got off track if I'm going off-track.
32:13
You may need to say wait, let's go back to what the question
32:15
was. Oh, I will.
32:18
I think for me I, oh, I just like to let people talk and
32:23
listen and learn. That's, that's my, my, my main
32:26
deal here. And if you get too far off
32:29
track, Like, let's do the back but yeah, that doesn't really
32:32
happen. Generally.
32:34
Anyway, you were talking a lot about editing there.
32:38
This one's kind of know like is the expectation, always placed
32:41
upon the raters to have to do their own editing or I do there
32:45
exist. Audio editors specifically for
32:49
this like you always have to do your own editing.
32:52
No, this is just the preliminary editing become.
32:57
It's really not considered. Being that even though it is,
33:01
but they just will say, please send us files labeled this way
33:07
punch and roll and anytime they say punch and roll, you know,
33:11
that you're not going to just hit record and record the whole
33:14
thing. And then stop, you're going to
33:15
be stopping. And if you made a mistake,
33:17
you're going to, you're going to pre at it basically.
33:19
But they do have a deters. They do have prefers because I'm
33:23
just I'm just basically sending them at a piece of audio that
33:28
has one take of everything and not Two or three.
33:30
You know I'm saying? Does that even make sense?
33:32
Yeah no no I mean this this is why I assumed it would be.
33:35
Yeah. Yeah.
33:36
So there is there is editing there are narrators and I have
33:40
done this to who have added their own.
33:42
I have tried to prove my own admit.
33:44
That was a huge mistake when you were talking earlier about.
33:46
Is there some sort of, you know, thing you need to do to get into
33:50
this? Oh man.
33:50
Did I ever learn the hard way? Because I I allowed stuff to get
33:56
on Audible, that shouldn't have been on there.
33:57
I'm just going to say it and thankfully, Polly there are
34:00
reviewers who are like, um, you know what, they're like, two
34:03
chapter three Zano chapter 4 in this audio book seriously, or I
34:09
would say a line twice. So I learned really fast, very,
34:13
because I thought I was pretty confident.
34:15
Right. Well, I learned really fast that
34:17
I need, at least another set of ears listening through it with
34:21
the manuscript to catch any errors and anyone who tries to
34:24
prove their own work, will find out the hard way.
34:26
It's they're going to miss things.
34:29
I I do sometimes edit my own, but if I'm going to do that
34:33
because I'm not a great editor, it'll take me a long time.
34:35
It's actually more cost effective for me to hire that
34:40
portion of it because I can do what I can do, which is I can
34:44
nari, and I know what to do. And I that's something that
34:47
comes very naturally to me now. But editing, you know, I have to
34:52
I'm not fast and I'm not efficient.
34:54
And, and sometimes, I'm not as good as an actual editor
34:58
engineer. So, So, so I'll usually hire
35:01
someone to do that if I'm producing it, if I'm not
35:03
producing it, all I do is send it to the publisher and they do
35:07
all the work behind the scenes. Then all I get back is a packet
35:12
that says, here are your mistakes.
35:13
Please record them, and send it back and that's all I do.
35:17
But I do have some projects that are just mine that I've done
35:21
either for fun or something. I just, you know, wanted to do
35:25
like on Tik-Tok. I do these live readings and you
35:28
can only if you have permission. It's great but you can't do it
35:31
if you don't. So if you don't have permission,
35:33
you need to do something. That is a public domain work and
35:35
so I've done a lot of public domain on Tick-Tock when I
35:38
didn't have permission with my regular books that I'm reading
35:42
and that's turned into something, really fun back up a
35:44
second. So like if I wanted to go and
35:46
just read Because I see people and take talk all the time that
35:49
just, you know, whatever, read chapters from a book.
35:52
Whatever, you can't do that. Could you get back this?
35:54
You get sued for that or something.
35:56
You could, you could be, that's copyright infringement.
36:00
Yeah, really just reading something.
36:03
Yeah, wow. That's someone else's
36:06
intellectual property, and you're putting it out in a
36:09
public platform and especially if people can send you money,
36:13
then like you kept it on YouTube or, you know, and it creates
36:18
problems for authors to. And let me tell you how this has
36:21
actually happened, I know firsthand and author, especially
36:25
an independent author. A lot of times, if they want to
36:28
be on Kindle unlimited, which A lot of them.
36:30
Do they have to sign an agreement that says this work is
36:34
exclusively sold through Amazon. They have to sign that.
36:38
That is like a seven-year contract.
36:40
If a pirate comes along and starts putting that work on
36:44
YouTube or they have pirate sites.
36:47
The author can basically lose their account with Amazon and
36:51
then they have no recourse over either.
36:54
The sale of the book. They've been kicked off saying,
36:57
we found your book on such-and-such.
36:59
Her on YouTube. So so you no longer have an
37:04
account and you prevent that from happening, but anyone could
37:07
just go and do that and it's dollar question.
37:11
There have been, you know, people will report pirate sites
37:15
or they'll go to YouTube and Report videos of their work.
37:20
But, you know, there are people out there who are just, they're
37:25
stealing people's intellectual property because and making
37:29
money. Of it.
37:30
So and it, and it really does hurt these independent authors
37:33
because they're the ones that will pay the price because the
37:36
whoever took and here's another problem, is someone will give
37:39
out arcs, Advanced reader copies, you know these that
37:43
before they print it they'll they want people to read it and
37:45
review it. Some of those arcs have been
37:48
leaked And that's so, so the manuscript is out there.
37:54
And now the author has no way to make any income off of that
38:00
work. If it's if it's if Amazon finds
38:03
out and deletes their account, they have no way of recovering
38:08
it because it's now just out there.
38:12
So it's been a great source of anxiety for authors that are
38:17
independent, to be honest. They're I don't know that there
38:20
is a fix for it. You know, people have said, well
38:25
I'm going to boycott KU but that's not a good idea either,
38:29
you know, because then you really meant, you really put
38:31
them in a bad place. So if you want to support
38:35
independent authors, either by their, by their book or and
38:41
don't don't share it because, yeah, it's that is, that is a
38:47
big struggle and it, you know, Amazon They're huge.
38:51
They kind of don't really care. That's going to say, there's no,
38:56
there's no competition. We spoke about this at the
38:58
beginning. If there, if there does exist,
39:00
competition is very small because of Amazon's got the
39:04
Monopoly but that blows my mind because that's something that
39:08
you can't help. You can't control if that
39:10
happens at this, but I there are people out there saying I will
39:17
never write another book. I mean, we're losing Losing
39:20
we're going to lose those creative people who you know who
39:25
don't have these large publisher contracts.
39:33
If it gets bad enough, you know, because you know being in the
39:36
industry you hear it you hear and I do work with independent
39:39
authors. So it's a, it's a great, cause a
39:42
great deal of anxiety for them, they're like, well, is it even
39:44
worth it? You know, because I know of one
39:48
person who had their accounts It pulled they have no way of
39:52
making any money off the work. They did you know that took a
39:56
year. It just stinks.
39:59
So I mean yeah. Who has incredibly sad is this?
40:07
Yeah, that's a beaver for that. Well let's let's try and make
40:11
things a bit more cheery you have recorded.
40:16
And this was at the time that did my research is probably gone
40:18
up since then, let's say, over 200 audiobooks at the very
40:21
minimum, over the course of your career.
40:24
So far, what would you say were the most memorable projects and
40:27
why Okay. Okay, well I'm gonna just say
40:34
You know, the idea that I get to sit and read books is like it's
40:40
like a dream job for me, even though.
40:42
Yeah, I'm I'm kind of, I have to do all the stuff that they have
40:45
to do but it is it's amazing. I would say the most memorable
40:52
for me, was one of the first books I ever did that.
40:55
That was a nonfiction piece that required me to go beyond what I
40:59
was even comfortable. Doing the book was called the
41:01
night I danced with Rommel. I auditioned for it because I
41:07
wanted to take a risk and it was probably one of the very first I
41:10
ever did. Maybe the very first at least
41:13
novel. Anyway it was written by a woman
41:19
living in Liverpool who is German.
41:21
It's her mother's story of World War Two, And the story itself.
41:27
I mean I just cried through it. It's it was amazing.
41:31
This woman in her circumstances how she was able to do what she
41:35
could to save people. And anyway so it meant a lot.
41:40
It was also because it was very painful, it took me months to do
41:44
that book because I didn't know how to do a German accent and
41:51
I'm working with this author and she was so kind and she's like
41:55
a, she's German. So she was like, I'm going to
41:57
help you do this. So she really did.
41:59
But she would tell me if I didn't get a right right.
42:01
She was like, no, that is not how so while it's not perfect
42:06
and, you know, is our work ever perfect, I don't know, but it
42:10
was, it was a great lesson to me and I learned first of all, that
42:15
I learned to take risks by doing that.
42:17
So it meant a lot there. I also learned how hard it was,
42:21
this this, like I said, it took me months there, A lot of long
42:24
nights and a lot of tears that went into that, but I it was of
42:31
Great Value to me personally and professionally and I learned so
42:34
much from her. I learned a lot about myself.
42:37
So I would say that book. It's like that one book that we
42:41
all have for me, you'll know what I'm talking about.
42:44
I had that one book that really got me into reading and it was
42:47
Walter Farley's The Black Stallion.
42:50
I've read a ton of books that I have loved.
42:52
That book is the book that changed, everything?
42:56
Right, you know what I'm talking about?
42:58
Like, for some people, it's Harry Potter, changed everything
43:01
for my kids. It was Harry Potter because they
43:02
struggled with reading and somehow getting into the Harry
43:05
Potter series, they just it clicked.
43:08
So we all have that book. That was that audio book for me
43:12
was the one where I probably worked harder than I ever have
43:16
because I didn't know as much as I needed to do it.
43:20
And so it was very painful, but also very precious and I'm
43:23
grateful, I had the chance to do it.
43:25
So I would say that one is the one that stands out the most.
43:29
To me, you mentioned in that eagle quite emotional.
43:32
Like, in general, I imagine this must happen quite often.
43:36
I, when you read certain material, especially nonfiction,
43:39
you are likely to get emotional because you're dealing with such
43:42
intense topics. How do you sort of manage that
43:46
and work through that? Sometimes I don't very well.
43:51
There was a day when I just had to take a break because honestly
43:56
because of that book that book was very instrumental in
44:01
steering my career in the direction, it's been and I would
44:05
say the bulk of the work I do is historical fiction now, and I
44:11
would say due in large part because of that book, it people
44:14
were listening to the samples and they were hiring me for, you
44:17
know. Oracle fiction.
44:19
Oh, well, and so I do a lot. I'm doing one right now that's
44:22
not historical fiction. It's actually a memoir
44:24
nonfiction WWII about Frances first.
44:31
Woman helicopter pilots and neurosurgeon who it's amazing.
44:37
Anyway, so dealing with the emotion.
44:41
I'll tell you. One thing that actually has
44:42
helped me is being able when I can to do to read life.
44:47
Why? It helps, I do not know because
44:50
I have people who will follow me, either on Tick-Tock or
44:52
Discord. And when I can read live, they
44:54
are like, come on Nance, you can do it.
44:56
You know, you can get through this and they're all like, you
44:58
know, doing all the tier emojis. But having someone to share the
45:01
experience with is really healing for me.
45:04
Also, just taking breaks because there are times when yeah, you
45:07
do it, it's like you feel it, you know.
45:11
And so it's important to get out to do the to balance things out
45:15
with like going out for a walk or go.
45:18
And having something nice with, with one a kid or, you know,
45:22
just really enjoying because especially some of the things
45:26
that I do deal with a lot of very, heavy material.
45:30
And a lot of it is real, some of its fictionalized, but a lot of
45:33
it is actual real people, real stories Memoirs, things like
45:37
that. But I will say on the other side
45:39
of that, I have learned so much about And I feel like I'm just
45:45
scratching the surface of the good in humanity, and how, even
45:53
though, in many ways we come from different perspectives,
45:55
different backgrounds, different cultures.
45:59
There are some really unifying wonderful things that are all
46:03
there. And sometimes we don't, we
46:05
basically want much of the same things.
46:08
I would say, we just go about it in different ways and we have,
46:12
you know, belief systems or whatever you want to say.
46:14
But it's actually been very it's it's allowed me to be very
46:19
optimistic and say, you know what I do I may not agree with
46:24
some of the things that I'm actually reading here but I can
46:27
see where they're coming from and that gives me a little more
46:31
empathy, I'm a little less quick to judge.
46:35
I think if that makes any sense and I think I just went on
46:38
another like tangent know. So anyway, good, so good.
46:42
Thank you, thank you so much. Let's flip it.
46:48
Okay, worst experience, ever. Now, I will say you don't have
46:55
to name any Publications, you know whether you lawsuits but is
46:59
there a particular experience where you were just like, oh
47:02
never again? Yes, I've had one of those
47:05
although I won't say it was it was a project that was a
47:10
disaster honestly and due in part to lack of communication,
47:14
right? Found it because I didn't know
47:19
what, I didn't know, and I mispronounced so many words that
47:24
I basically had to redo the entire thing.
47:28
Okay, that was not pleasant. The other I've done that to
47:31
other times one, when I had an equipment failure that I wasn't
47:34
aware of, so, I had to redo the entire book, but that was
47:36
actually found. Yeah.
47:38
That was actually fun because that's when I did was allowed to
47:44
go live on Tick-Tock. So I just did it again on
47:47
Tick-Tock and we have a lot of laughs when I can tell.
47:49
How many hours did you do on that particular project for you?
47:51
Realize our book. So let's let's let's put that
47:56
into perspective. A 10-hour.
47:58
Book will take me 10 days to do. Wow, okay.
48:03
Tim workdays. Do an hour a day.
48:06
Basically, yes, pretty much. And that's all day, you know,
48:11
that's all day. Whether it's whether it's
48:13
researching or whether it's recording or whether it's I
48:16
mean, taking breaks as even important to the process.
48:19
So I'll be taking a break, putting my feet up going for a
48:22
walk. Those are all part of my day.
48:24
Like I was up last night till till 10:00 recording.
48:28
I mean, that's a long work day. I'm going to be recording again
48:32
today on the weekend, which I try not to do, but yeah.
48:39
Yeah, I'm the same as you like. I today, might like, even though
48:44
I had this planned, I was like, oh, there's a little bit of time
48:47
to do things I enjoy, but I knew like, I'd be doing this, they'll
48:51
be doing some voice. So, voice acting projects later
48:53
and I'm like, he is so hard because I could tell you were so
48:57
workaholic as well, but it's like, it's fun.
48:59
That's the thing. It's actually, when you enjoy,
49:01
what you do, it doesn't feel like work, but you still have to
49:04
kind of force yourself to. I'll take a break.
49:07
Oh, watch a movie. I'll go with Outside I'll sit
49:10
and do nothing. You have to do that.
49:12
Your body needs it? Yeah, well let me tell you an
49:16
interesting thing. I discovered, I recently got an
49:20
Apple Watch, I had enough points on my card.
49:24
Got an Apple Watch, I was really excited.
49:26
Well, I noticed there are certain times when I'm recording
49:29
on my, it sends an alarm because my heart rate is too high and
49:34
actually that's one of the reasons I got the watch because
49:36
I thought I was feeling like, you know, I think Having either
49:39
anxiety or something's going on. But every time I get a series of
49:44
Corrections or what we call pickups, yeah, I have trouble
49:48
with my heart rate, it's like induces anxiety, so that really
49:52
is important because you have to remind yourself, okay?
49:57
So I have a real life and I have to be available for the people
50:00
in that life as well and but yeah, recording an audio book.
50:04
Here's the thing. I will get 1 hour done a day.
50:07
I hope I hope to sometimes. More I've done up to four.
50:10
That's crazy. I don't that's just like you
50:12
just kill yourself to get four hours done.
50:14
But when you have to sometimes you have to.
50:16
So so to get that one hour, it might take me more than that,
50:22
right? It might take me two days to get
50:25
that our, especially if it's heavy in.
50:27
Either foreign words that I don't know, or research words,
50:30
or whatever it is. So, yeah, I mean, it's hard to
50:34
it's hard to really gauge, you know, sometimes I probably make
50:37
minimum wage. When I, when I'm stepping away
50:40
from a project and all the work that's gone into it and
50:44
sometimes you don't get compensated for that some
50:46
Publishers will compensate you, you know, for your research
50:49
time, Etc. But most don't.
50:51
So anyway, that's rough is because he absolutely should be
50:56
included in that time. Like whenever I'm charging for
51:00
the voice of a Project's, Now voice acting if it's a project.
51:05
Where they want to do live sessions, I will incorporate.
51:10
What I tend to do is if it's things like pickups, I'll offer
51:13
a few for free that are reasonable and such but if it if
51:17
it's they want a lot done and let you get your going to have
51:20
to charge extra for this because it's going to take time.
51:22
I'm going to have to go through didn't like but the way I look
51:24
at it is like you've got like your own process that you go
51:27
through and the time that you're going to dedicate to doing that
51:29
and such. And that's how you have to look
51:31
at it. And also from the client
51:33
perspective there's a certain Degree of expectation.
51:36
Like, if you don't have that that process it can it can look
51:41
really bad on you. You make and it could make you
51:43
seem like, um, professional. But again much the same as
51:48
there's audio narration. I mean, I'm sure there are rules
51:51
and stuff online for voice acting and such, but I've kind
51:54
of learned all this stuff myself and I'm still learning.
51:56
It's just a never-ending Learning Tree so well and along
52:01
with that, along with that learning is things changed.
52:04
Ends change, reads, change. I mean, compare it, like, start
52:08
back from when radio started and you have the Mid-Atlantic
52:13
announcer, you know, who who is on the picture, you know, in the
52:18
theater and they, and it's just this very I've had to recreate
52:21
that sometimes, but it's really kind of fun in that keeping up
52:25
with Trends. And I just think our job is
52:28
really important to continue to never get stagnant.
52:33
You know, I'm, I take classes. Asses.
52:35
I think that is so important to just get get out their Network
52:39
and see what's happening in the there are Trends.
52:41
There are there are things that you want to stay ahead of, you
52:46
know, coaching Etc. And I think you become you
52:51
become better with each one of those.
52:52
Some things maybe you set aside for now, and I'll give you an
52:55
example of that. So, like years ago, I got some
52:57
advice from from a really well-known director that, I just
53:03
couldn't understand. Really how to incorporate the
53:07
advice. And it wasn't until last year
53:10
when I did, the girl from Guernica, when I went I get it.
53:16
This was like book hundred book, 203, you know, after 203 books
53:21
I'm like I Now understand what he was trying to get me to do
53:25
and how I can use that so you just never know when when you
53:29
have those opportunities maybe just set it aside for now and
53:33
maybe come back to it. But anyway continuing education
53:35
really big. Absolutely.
53:39
You spoke earlier about having to audition which I don't know
53:44
why it's a surprise because obviously you have to audition
53:47
for everything else but some reason it just kind of caught me
53:51
by surprise took walk us through the audition process for no
53:54
audio narration, okay? So, I've had a couple this week,
53:58
well, you don't have to audition for everything, sometimes you'll
54:01
just get an offer, but sometimes they'll look at, you know, 3210
54:07
narrators and they'll ask you if you want to be considered.
54:10
And if you do Will you please submit a by to minute sample or
54:15
five minutes? Sample of the manuscript?
54:18
So that and part of that is now, do they're doing that more?
54:21
Because authors are realizing they can.
54:24
In their contract, say, I want to have approval of the
54:27
narrator, that's not always been the case.
54:29
Sometimes the Publishers will just buy out all the audio
54:32
rights and everything that goes with it.
54:34
So they would just hire someone to do it and they almost didn't
54:37
matter as much. I'm not saying they don't care.
54:40
That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying they now the
54:43
authors authors, especially, Indie, authors are coming to the
54:47
table. Saying I would like to choose
54:49
the narrator at least. I want to select have have
54:52
approval of the narrator so you'll go back.
54:56
You'll do a two 25-minute audition and usually you just
55:00
send them raw audio, which is kind of nice.
55:02
You don't have to really Master it.
55:04
And sometimes I'll say you can just do it on a phone.
55:06
We just want to hear performance.
55:08
And then then you submit it, however they want Want you to
55:12
submit it and for everyone it's going to be different one of the
55:14
great platforms out there right now is Ahab.
55:18
Aha B which is penguin, Random House, you can set up a profile
55:24
in a way it's similar to a CX but it's all penguin.
55:27
Random house. It's also other forms of VO.
55:30
They can get on there and check out your profile.
55:32
You fill it out, you do the keywords, you do all the things,
55:36
and look at the auditions that that are filtered to your, to
55:40
your profile. You can also get approached by,
55:44
you know, someone at penguin random house has said, hey can
55:47
you audition for this do two takes one in your natural and
55:50
then do one with a Dutch accent and so that was I didn't get
55:53
that one. Dang it.
55:54
But I you know, that's typically what you do and here's the other
55:58
thing as as someone who I feel like, I really feel confident in
56:03
my career and in my place, you know, I feel like I feel like I
56:09
know a lot of people and they know me, But I still have to
56:13
audition, you know. So even the even people who
56:17
have, you know, been in the industry a long time, they'll
56:20
still be asked to audition sometimes and there are reasons
56:22
for that, you should never be offended.
56:24
You know, that we have to audition again, but yeah it's
56:28
just they'll send you the the pieces, usually two to five
56:31
minutes and it's usually raw audio and depending on who it
56:35
is, it can be something as simple as just a phone thing if
56:39
they just want performance. And it just Depends on who it's
56:42
for. So yeah.
56:44
Or here's the other thing, if you are actively auditioning on
56:48
a CX then that's a little different.
56:51
You just go via a CX, you create a profile you again, fill out
56:55
all the fields and then it kind of sends to you what you might
57:02
want to audition for. So you just go you create an MP3
57:07
upload it there and then You go from there.
57:12
So thanks for sharing. I really appreciate it.
57:15
Yeah, you spoke before as well about avoiding stagnation and
57:20
stuff like that. So do you ever find your work to
57:25
become like boring or repetitive?
57:27
And if so, how do you keep yourself motivated?
57:31
That's a really good question. And I have a couple of great
57:34
answers. I think one is I have a couple
57:39
of accountability. Owners one I meet with once a
57:44
month and we go over. We set goals and sometimes we
57:48
change them, you know, but we'll get together that once a month
57:52
and we'll talk about the things that are important to us or
57:54
where we want to go along with that.
57:58
I am part of a group in my local area, where we go to lunch once
58:02
a month. And that's amazing to have that
58:05
resource before that. It was just social media, which
58:08
is great too. You can.
58:10
And a lot of support in this industry on, you know, Facebook
58:14
and Instagram Tick-Tock just people to connect with because
58:20
they're having having a having colleagues.
58:26
When you are by yourself, a lot is really important to gauge
58:30
where you're going, how you're doing to ask questions to get
58:34
support to say, hey, which one do you like a, or b?
58:38
You know I'm saying? So, So I feel like it.
58:43
The answer is, in in your community, reaching out finding
58:49
someone who's at a similar place where you are, whether you're
58:52
brand new and you, you know, just seeking out coaches or
58:56
whatever to to create a community.
58:59
And this community in particular, the audiobook
59:02
Community is very welcoming. They will bring you in in a way
59:07
that I've never really seen before and I have just
59:10
absolutely But also if you've ever read Jenna Fisher's book, I
59:15
cannot remember it. It's about acting, right?
59:19
It's some anyway, it's really good.
59:21
She talked about when she first started in the industry and
59:23
she's like trying to break into these Circles of people you know
59:27
that that we're kind of established and she was kind of
59:30
trying to find her way into those circles and it was either
59:33
her advice or someone gave her the advice.
59:35
I said create your own, that is so important and that's why
59:39
having someone like an Accountability partner.
59:41
So you can say, hey did you know that the voice Arts awards are
59:45
coming up in the deadline, is here at submit your stuff,
59:47
someone to help and be with you as you walk, this journey
59:52
together is so important. So, yeah, and you can bounce
59:55
things off one another, you know, and I think it keeps you
59:59
kind of keeps you Sharp. In general.
1:00:03
What advice could you give to aspiring audio narrators?
1:00:09
Okay, I would say your first place to go is narrators.
1:00:14
Roadmap.com, and or narrator dot life.
1:00:19
L Ife. And look at the resources, they
1:00:22
have because first of all, if, if you don't, if you've not
1:00:27
tried it yet, don't do anything. Don't buy equipment?
1:00:31
Don't say you're going to do it in.
1:00:32
Drop your job. There are some really solid
1:00:35
pieces of advice before you do any of that, to see if you're
1:00:38
even a Match one of my favorites is by one of my amazing coaches,
1:00:44
Sean Pratt on YouTube and it's called.
1:00:48
So you want to be an audiobook narrator probably, it's probably
1:00:52
10, 11 years old and but everyone's is still widely
1:00:57
referred to because he gives such solid advice to someone who
1:01:01
is thinking, you know, I might want to do this, it's basically
1:01:04
to see. Are you, are you?
1:01:07
Do you have the temperament? To sit to read to make, mistakes
1:01:11
to go back for hours on end, or is it just not for you?
1:01:16
So you need to find that out. First narrators Road mat.com,
1:01:19
narrator dot life. Excellent tools for people
1:01:22
trying to start out. Stardust get their own setup and
1:01:27
Shawn Pratt's. So you want to be an audiobook,
1:01:29
narrator? And the other thing is, if, you
1:01:32
know, then after you've done that, and it's for you be
1:01:34
persistent, find your community, it is out there.
1:01:37
Look for people locally. Submit your work to audiophile
1:01:40
magazine submit to Awards. See if you can get into the
1:01:45
awards Arena, they'll all those things will be really helpful to
1:01:50
get you on a solid path. Oh and of course, make sure your
1:01:53
work is solid before you do any of it.
1:01:56
So I'm going to say that make sure you're not, you're putting
1:02:00
out a good product and to do that.
1:02:02
You need to start with these other places.
1:02:05
You know, if the narrator's roadmap.com is one of my
1:02:07
favorites. Thank you so much for the
1:02:10
appreciate that couple quick, fire questions for you
1:02:13
completely unrelated to today, what we've been talking about.
1:02:17
What's the best advice you've ever received?
1:02:22
oh, the best advice I've ever received.
1:02:35
Well you put me on the spot, I love this question.
1:02:38
I cut while I come back to what my my mother said years ago and
1:02:44
I think it's become more relevant to me as I've gotten
1:02:46
older and she said that the two best words in the world are oh
1:02:51
well and it as I mean as sort of innocuous as that seems those
1:02:57
two words sort of embody an attitude of you know what, we
1:03:02
just whatever it is. We just well we just get and we
1:03:07
keep going, right? Oh well, so that happened.
1:03:09
Well well, you know, or oh well, you know, it works both ways but
1:03:14
it's like, it's like and then I think just along with that.
1:03:19
Don't be afraid to take risks and stay curious.
1:03:23
Absolutely. I'm a nation.
1:03:25
So yeah. It wasn't that long.
1:03:31
It's got kind of a similar question.
1:03:36
What's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
1:03:42
I'm gonna just go back to the one that I said earlier, which
1:03:45
is I think we have much more in common than we realize we may
1:03:51
not express it. Well, we may we may be stubborn
1:03:54
at times but I've had the great honor and privilege of looking
1:03:59
into the heart of people who have written something that's
1:04:05
means something to them. And I have come away a better
1:04:12
person. I feel like Wife.
1:04:18
When you boil it all down is about relationships.
1:04:21
And so, I'm learning that. I don't know everything and I've
1:04:30
often been quick to make decisions or to judge or to
1:04:33
categorize, when that was unwarranted.
1:04:35
So I hope that that I am more open and honest and because of
1:04:41
that more loving and and a better human maybe because of
1:04:46
it. So, Affect you have any upcoming
1:04:53
projects or some final thoughts that you'd like to share with
1:04:55
our listeners. Yes, let's see.
1:04:59
I well you can you can go to my audible, you just go to the
1:05:02
search bar on Audible and you can put my name in the search
1:05:07
bar and you can see all my upcoming titles that are assumed
1:05:10
to be released. I think I have a cool five.
1:05:12
It haven't even been released yet and there are a couple still
1:05:16
coming but Todd. My name is not on there yet.
1:05:20
But yeah, always. If you're listening to an
1:05:24
audiobook or you're reading a book, it's always nice to leave.
1:05:27
A review because, you know, especially for Indie authors.
1:05:32
That's really how they get the word out is by reviews and
1:05:36
something they can use. But yeah I just am glad I get to
1:05:42
be on your show today and tell you a little bit about what I
1:05:44
do. So that's been an absolute
1:05:47
pleasure. Thank you so much for being on
1:05:49
the show. Really appreciate it.
1:05:50
Thanks and to all the listeners and watches watches viewers
1:05:56
viewers. Viewers and listeners of the
1:05:58
Chris, you're very podcast. I hope you've enjoyed Today's
1:06:01
Show as much as I have and I shall see you in the next
1:06:06
episode. So take care.