Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Dr. John Boffa calls for better classification standards when it comes to labelling a death as "covid"

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Dr. John Boffa calls for better classification standards when it comes to labelling a death as "covid" · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Joining me on the line right now is doctor John Boffer.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Let me just make sure I've got the line lined
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: up there. Good morning to you, doctor Boffer.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Good morning now, doctor Boffer.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: There has been two additional COVID nineteen deaths in the
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Northern Territory which you say have not been reported by
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: the government. Can you tell us what's going on?
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Look, one of them has been reported by the government
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: and one hasn't. But what the key issues They haven't
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: been recognized as COVID nineteen deaths and that it matters.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: So in a pandemic, one of the central pinill pillars
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: of effective pandemic control is quality data and good data.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: There's a national definition agreed by the Communical Disease Network
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Australia what a COVID nineteen death is, and basically it's
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: common sense. Most people would accept there's someone's in the
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: acute phase of the COVID infection and they die, it
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: is a COVID nineteen death unless there's a clear cause
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: that can't be attributed to the COVID. So, for example,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: if someone who's COVID positive gets knocked over by a
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: truck and dies because of that trauma, that's not a
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: COVID death. But if someone with COVID nineteen has a
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: heart attack or a stroke or dies of heart failure
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: pre existing conditions while they've got the COVID, that is
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: a COVID nineteen death. That's accepted standard nationally. It's got
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: all states and charities have been using up to now,
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  Speaker 2: it's accepted internationally. It's really important that we abide by
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: those rules.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: And doctor Boffer, is is that the case because the COVID, like,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: because having COVID has contributed to them then you know,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: potentially having that heart attack or having that stroke.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely So. Look if we take the UK for example,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: they've done a study of five hundred thousand COVID deaths
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: and of those only eighteen thousand we're COVID alone directly
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: caused by COVID. All the others COVID cause another condition
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: which caused it. So what happens in the acute phase
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: of the COVID infection. You have a massive imminological response,
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: you have a massive inflammatory response. We know that information,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: acute information causes heart attacks, causes strokes, and this sort
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: of response causes someone with pre existing heart failure to
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: what we call decompensates, so they end up with acute
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: or Pullman and heart failure. So the element caused death
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: might be a heart attack, it might be a stroke,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: it might be acute heart failure, but it's been caused
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: by COVID. So that's what happens in a COVID situation.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: The National definition accepts that, and I'm pleased to say
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: I've had a conversation with the Health ministon and Chaster
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: files this morning. She accepts that, and she understands now
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: the process. It is really important how this occurs. We
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: need to include the Chose Office in this assessment and
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: not just clinicians on the ground. Conditions on the ground
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: can get this wrong, so there needs it's really important
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: that we get it right. And in fact, the Northern
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Church has now had tragically for COVID related deaths. I
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: don't want to overstate that we've had more than four
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: thousand cases of COVID and we've had four deaths, so
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: that's a small number compared to what we would have had.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: That's because vaccination is highly effective at preventing death from COVID,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: and the majority of vaccinated people and young people will
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: have a mild illness but for the unvaccinated population, COVID
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: even omicron is still a potentially deadly disease. It's as
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: deadly as the initial COVID, well, the initial COVID Australian
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: that came out of wum hand at the same level
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: of that. It's not quite as deadly as delta, but
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: still a very deadly virus if you're unvaccinated or not
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: fully protected by vaccination.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: So doctor Boffer, with the four COVID related deaths that
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: we've had in the Northern Territory, have they been vaccinated?
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: The vaccination status of these people has only been partly revealed.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: That's the duty of the show's office. I'm not going
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: to reach confidentiality by talking about that, but the show,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: I think I understand even today in the press comments
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: will make that clear. It is what shows all around
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: the country you've been doing talking about deaths in terms
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: of vaccination days. So they unvaccinated, one dose, two days boosted.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: It really matters. Yeah, because that data really matters, It
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: really makes it brings the point home and we know
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: it's really clear. It makes a huge if you're unvaccinated
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: and you get omicon and you're over seventy the mortality
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: rates about three and a half percent in Australia. That's
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: very significant. If you're fully vaccinated and boosted, that drops
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: by more than ten fold, even close to twenty five
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: So you're very protected with vaccination compared to not being vaccinated.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Doctor Boffett. I know that there'll be some people listening
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: this morning who sit on the other side of the fence,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: and they'll be thinking to themselves, you know, should we
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: actually be saying that people have passed away as a
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: result of COVID if indeed they've had a heart attack
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: or a stroke.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Oh look, I think, well, then we need to expose people.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Then need to get and understand how most people actually
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: die with this disease. It's not COVID itself that directly
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: kills people. In the vast majority cases, COVID aggravates a
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: pre existing underlying condition. That's why, well, people without underlying
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: conditions do so much better than people with underlying conditions.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: That's how it actually happens. And so you know, COVID
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: day four, day five causes heart attack, It causes they
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: withh me is you know heart the heart stops spedding properly,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: it causes strokes, it causes these other conditions in the
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: acute phase of the illness. If we only counted direct
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: deaths caused by COVID, as I just said in England,
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  Speaker 2: you'd have eighteen thousand instead of five hundred thousand, So
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: you can see what sort of difference it makes through
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  Speaker 2: it will make the numbers look good. It will make
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: it look like COVID hardly kills anybody. So that's not
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: the reality COVID. What people need to understand is would
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: this person have died if they didn't get COVID, And
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: if the answer to that is, if the answer is
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: the only reason they've died is because they got COVID,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: it has to be counted as the COVID death. Otherwise
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: we have data that's inaccurate and it won't help us
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: in planning the response or understanding how severe the illness is.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Now, Doctor Boffer, So you said that they are going
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: to actually change, you know, change this and you're expecting
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: that they're going to make an announcement at the press
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: conference today. Why in your opinion is that so important? Oh?
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Look, I think we need to we need to get
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: the balance right. On the one hand, we don't want
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: to catastrophize, as I think the police chimists said. No
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: one wants to do that, and we want to make
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: it really clear that if the vaccinated people and young people,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: this will be a mild on us. But on the
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: other hand, we don't want to trivialize either, because if
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: we want the unvaccinated people to get vaccinated and we
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: want everyone to get boosted, we have to be honest
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: and accurate in our reporting of death because obviously people
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: out there are concerned about premature death, as they should be,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: and it can be avoided and prevented with vaccination. But
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: if we don't get data right and we don't use
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: each death when it occurs to highlight the importance of
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: prevention and vaccination and other measures to protect yourself, then
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: we're not really helping people take responsibility themselves to actually
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: get us out of this pandemic. We've sent it all
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: over the country chief health officers talking about the death
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: and talking about death s in relation to vaccination status.
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  Speaker 2: That is important because it is a common good message
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: that they're giving, and they're doing it for good reason.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: We're not talking about names, we're not talking about people
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: that can be identified, but we are talking about those
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: really key characteristics which have an impact on public health
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: and the common good approach to pandemic.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Well, doctor John Boffer, we really appreciate your time this morning,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: always do, of course speaking to us this morning as
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the top doctor at the Central Australian Aboriginal Health Congress.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for your time today. How are
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: things going in elis the moment?
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, we've got a lot of rain, with a lot
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: of remote communities cut off right out of chime. When
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: they've got a lot of COVID, planes can't land. It
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: is complicating everything. We've got an awful lot of COVID.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: It's spreading everywhere very quickly. We've been able to slow
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: it down effectively in some places, and this new lock
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: in strategy is also really helping. So you know, vaccination,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: mass lock ins, restricting movement, all these things are helping
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: to slow it down. But it is everywhere, and you know, unfortunately,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: the more widespread it is, the more this virus will
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: find the people who aren't vaccinated, and they're the people
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: are most worried about.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: And are you confident that the health system down there,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: particularly the hospital, is able to cope with those additional cases.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Look, the hospital is doing a very good job at
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: the moment, is coping and the ICU capacity is not
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: any it's not out its limit. So we are coping
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: very well, well, coping without elective surgeon and with a
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: lot of service cut, I should say so, but we
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: are coping. But as case numbers continue to rise and
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: hospitalizations continues to rise, we have to watch that. Now
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: the government are bringing in this new measure to have
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: lock ins in regions, in remote areas, so people stop
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: moving in and out of town for a few weeks,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: so slow down movement. That will really help to slow
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: down the rate of spread, which is what we want
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: to do. We want to slow it down. You know,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: we're in this stage of containment and in fact management
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: to a large extent now, but we just want to
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: slow it down and hopefully that will start to happen
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: in the coming days or even weeks, so then understone
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: stays high as they've been well.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Doctor John Boffer, thank you very much for your time
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: this morning. No doubt we'll talk to you again soon.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you,