Latest / Real Crime with Adam Shand / Frontline to Front Bench: The Officer Who Ran for Office | Stuart Grimley

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Frontline to Front Bench: The Officer Who Ran for Office | Stuart Grimley · Real Crime with Adam Shand

0:05
Speaker 1: Apote production.
0:14
Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand, I'm your host
0:16
Speaker 2: Adam Shand a change of pace today, let's talk police
0:20
Speaker 2: and politics. To be honest, I'm not much interested in
0:23
Speaker 2: politics per se. Am a bit jaded about it. It
0:26
Speaker 2: gets in the way of good governance in my opinion,
0:28
Speaker 2: and the political class ends up serving itself rather than
0:31
Speaker 2: the people it purports to represent.
0:33
Speaker 3: Victoria Police Association warns of critical staffing shortages with hundreds
0:38
Speaker 3: of unfilled positions across regional and suburban stations.
0:44
Speaker 2: There are some cops who become successful politicians, the most
0:47
Speaker 2: famous being former Opposition leader Peter Dutton, who served in
0:50
Speaker 2: Queensland as a detective, and former Governor General Bill Hayden
0:54
Speaker 2: also served up in Queensland an ex assistant commissioner. In
0:57
Speaker 2: New South Wales, Mick Willing is standing for the Liberals
1:00
Speaker 2: in the state election next year.
1:02
Speaker 3: Survey fines more than sixty percent of frontline emergency workers
1:07
Speaker 3: report symptoms of burnout, with many citing inadequate mental health
1:11
Speaker 3: support and poor resourcing.
1:15
Speaker 2: None of them have ever formed their own political party,
1:18
Speaker 2: Like Victorian copp Stuart Grimly, he served in the Victorian
1:22
Speaker 2: State Parliament as a member of Darren Hinch's Justice Party,
1:25
Speaker 2: but lost his seat after four years in twenty twenty two.
1:29
Speaker 4: He went back to Victoria Police where he's.
1:31
Speaker 2: An operational safety and tactics instructor. But now he's planning
1:35
Speaker 2: a comeback to state politics later this year with his
1:38
Speaker 2: own party, the Frontline Workers' Party, which will represent first
1:42
Speaker 2: responders like police and fieries, teachers and educators, nurses, paramedics
1:47
Speaker 2: and Allied Health staff CFA and emergency volunteers, and even
1:51
Speaker 2: corrections officers.
1:52
Speaker 5: Victoria's ambulance and nursing unions joined calls for dedicated parliamentary
1:57
Speaker 5: representation for frontline health workers, saying major parties have failed
2:02
Speaker 5: to deliver.
2:05
Speaker 4: I caught up was to it for a chat recently.
2:08
Speaker 4: Welcome to Real Crime, Stuart Grimley.
2:10
Speaker 1: Thanks, Adam.
2:11
Speaker 2: You're a serving police officer. Why do you want to
2:13
Speaker 2: get into politics? You already been there coming back again?
2:16
Speaker 1: Very good question. Yeah, well, what you I suppose?
2:19
Speaker 6: I'm just getting a bit sick and tired of bitching
2:22
Speaker 6: a complaint about the system and the situations and things,
2:25
Speaker 6: and it's about time that someone just got off your
2:27
Speaker 6: ass and just did something about it. To be honest
2:29
Speaker 6: with you When I did it in twenty eighteen, I
2:31
Speaker 6: had the same feeling. Nothing's changed, unfortunately, and you know
2:35
Speaker 6: here we are in years down the track. Nothing's changed.
2:37
Speaker 6: The system's still broken. We're still begging and pleading for
2:41
Speaker 6: money and resources for frontline services. So rather than sit
2:45
Speaker 6: back on my backside and do nothing and just complain
2:47
Speaker 6: about it, I'd rather get up and do something about it.
2:50
Speaker 2: People will say, how on earth does Victoria Police allow
2:54
Speaker 2: serving members to get involved in politics? And when that
2:57
Speaker 2: obviously leads to I guess some perceptions of conflicts of
3:00
Speaker 2: interest or something, how do you deal with that?
3:01
Speaker 4: How do they react to that?
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Speaker 6: Yeah, so we've got to submit a form, a conflict
3:04
Speaker 6: of interest form or outside interest form, and just outline
3:07
Speaker 6: the potential risks that my position as a potential candidate
3:11
Speaker 6: could post.
3:12
Speaker 1: A Victoria Police.
3:13
Speaker 6: Fortunately, the Frontline Workers Party is all about supporting frontline workers,
3:17
Speaker 6: in particular the police, the hospitals, the fires and ambos, etc.
3:23
Speaker 6: So it actually serves a good purpose for them. It's
3:26
Speaker 6: not as if I'm with the Legalized Cannabis Party for instance,
3:29
Speaker 6: or something that goes against what the value of the
3:31
Speaker 6: Victoria Police are. So they're giving me the tick ahead
3:33
Speaker 6: to go. Yep, no worries, that's okay. Just be careful
3:36
Speaker 6: of what you say. Don't bag the government too much,
3:38
Speaker 6: and don't bag Victoria police at all. And that's not
3:41
Speaker 6: what I'm about. Like, we doing a fantastic job. All
3:43
Speaker 6: emergency service workers do a great job. But my issue
3:46
Speaker 6: is is that we're going to only do a job
3:49
Speaker 6: given the resources and finances that we have at the moment.
3:52
Speaker 1: It's pretty poor. Well, I mean, let.
3:54
Speaker 2: Zeran on that potential convict of interest because inevitably you're
3:57
Speaker 2: going to find yourself dealing with police matters. How does
4:00
Speaker 2: that not step across that line if you're going.
4:03
Speaker 6: To be fearless and forth right, Yeah, as long as
4:06
Speaker 6: I'm not interfered with any judicial processes, as long as
4:09
Speaker 6: I'm not speaking about particular cases that are before the courts,
4:13
Speaker 6: by all means, we can talk about things that have
4:15
Speaker 6: gone through the courts through sentencing, etc. In my position
4:18
Speaker 6: where I am at the moment, I'm an instructor with
4:20
Speaker 6: the operational safety and tactics training, So I'm not on
4:23
Speaker 6: the van on the divvy van at the moment. I
4:25
Speaker 6: do still have work opportunities on the front line clearly,
4:30
Speaker 6: but I'm not involved in doing briefs.
4:32
Speaker 1: I'm not involved in that side of the.
4:34
Speaker 6: Judicial process from my position, so I'm very fortunate there
4:38
Speaker 6: at the moment.
4:38
Speaker 1: So yeah, that shouldn't be an issue.
4:41
Speaker 4: How did you get into the cops in the first place.
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Speaker 2: I like to get some background on how this, I
4:45
Speaker 2: guess morphing from being a frontline police officer is suddenly
4:48
Speaker 2: representing all first responders.
4:51
Speaker 1: Yeah.
4:51
Speaker 6: So back in the day, I was a school teacher
4:52
Speaker 6: back in Western Australia, fortunate enough to spend three years
4:55
Speaker 6: in the indigenous communities of the Central Desert teaching all
4:58
Speaker 6: the indigenous kids there, which taught me a hell of
5:00
Speaker 6: a lot about the culture there and how to deal
5:03
Speaker 6: with people in respect and so forth. So, once I
5:06
Speaker 6: did about six or seven years in teaching, I think
5:08
Speaker 6: it was what has felt the need for a bit
5:10
Speaker 6: more of a.
5:11
Speaker 1: Challenge in life.
5:12
Speaker 6: So I joined the West Australian Police back in nineteen
5:14
Speaker 6: ninety nine. I went through the academy there, spent three
5:17
Speaker 6: years in kel Gooley as a Kelgalley copper.
5:20
Speaker 4: How was that?
5:20
Speaker 1: That was fantastic?
5:21
Speaker 6: Yeah, that talk about a an upward trajectory in terms
5:25
Speaker 6: of learning that was amazing, absolutely amazing. I was there
5:28
Speaker 6: just after the Auror band A shooting which happened at about
5:32
Speaker 6: two thousand.
5:32
Speaker 4: Where the Gypsy Jokers and.
5:35
Speaker 6: The former CIB chief Don Hank you know, were allegedly
5:39
Speaker 6: involved in that. And then the year later Don Hancock
5:42
Speaker 6: and his friend were Louis Lewis. Yeah we're blowing up
5:46
Speaker 6: after attending Belmont Races. So we were there around that
5:50
Speaker 6: time and that was really fascinating. We were drinking at
5:52
Speaker 6: the same pubs as the Gypsy Jokers police because you know,
5:56
Speaker 6: albeit there are twenty thirty yeard pubs in Kelgooley, we
6:00
Speaker 6: tended to sort of navigate around the similar pubs.
6:03
Speaker 4: We're going to go, you know. Yeah, smallish town together,
6:06
Speaker 4: and there was.
6:06
Speaker 1: An unwritten sort of rule that you know, we sort
6:08
Speaker 1: of keep to ourselves.
6:10
Speaker 6: But there were obviously occasions where you'd have a bit
6:12
Speaker 6: of intimidation, especially for me as a junior Connie at
6:15
Speaker 6: the time, going to a nightclub and having a known
6:19
Speaker 6: bikey sort of you hanging around, sniffing around sort of
6:21
Speaker 6: you know, bumping into every now and again and just
6:24
Speaker 6: having that intimidation.
6:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's what they're all about, I guess.
6:27
Speaker 6: Yeah, so it was a good learning experience for me.
6:29
Speaker 6: I loved it, absolutely loved it. Three years there and
6:31
Speaker 6: then I went back to Perth and eventually I did
6:34
Speaker 6: meet my wife there Manjy and Calgauley, so she's from Geelong,
6:38
Speaker 6: so that's what brought me back to Geelong. And yeah,
6:41
Speaker 6: joined Victoria Police where was at about two thousand and
6:45
Speaker 6: nine I think, and eight two thousand and nine and
6:47
Speaker 6: been with them ever since, apart from that four years
6:49
Speaker 6: in Parliament.
6:50
Speaker 2: And what's been your trajectory through the job, what stations.
6:53
Speaker 4: What roles.
6:54
Speaker 6: I've been a police officer for nearly I think eight
6:56
Speaker 6: to nineteen years now. I've been GDS for about half
6:59
Speaker 6: of those, about nine or ten years. Your Dius, your
7:03
Speaker 6: Crime Command, Major Drug Squad Detective Cio ruble See. I
7:08
Speaker 6: done two years at Soccett Footscrace Socket and currently an instructor,
7:12
Speaker 6: so I've been lucky enough to have a bit of
7:15
Speaker 6: experience in most of the year.
7:16
Speaker 1: Has been a big POM.
7:18
Speaker 6: Some really tough times during all those as you can
7:19
Speaker 6: imagine with the Socket in particular, that was really difficult.
7:22
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't regret anything. It's been a really
7:24
Speaker 1: good career. So far. Yeah.
7:26
Speaker 2: I spoke to another officer, Jason Doyle recently, who was
7:29
Speaker 2: in the age, talking about he's got quite severe PTSD,
7:33
Speaker 2: he's got physical injuries, psychological injuries, but he still says
7:37
Speaker 2: love the job. Wouldn't have made another choice other than
7:40
Speaker 2: this one. I guess you could probably look to dark
7:43
Speaker 2: moments in your career where I guess you might question
7:46
Speaker 2: your sanity, but not your choice.
7:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then sometimes you don't even notice it.
7:50
Speaker 6: I was looking at coming back into Victoria Police after
7:53
Speaker 6: the last election where I unfortunately missed out on being
7:56
Speaker 6: re elected, and they were offering me a certain few positions,
7:59
Speaker 6: and my wife said to me at the time, if
8:01
Speaker 6: you ever go back to soccert or divorce you And
8:03
Speaker 6: I didn't really understand at the time that I had
8:06
Speaker 6: some issues going through clearly as a result of the
8:09
Speaker 6: works that we would do.
8:10
Speaker 4: Ye sexual offenses, Yeah, the sexual.
8:13
Speaker 6: Offenses, dealing with your child sexual offenses, in particular categorizing
8:19
Speaker 6: child exportation material. I spent a couple of days at
8:23
Speaker 6: the VPC sorting three thousands upon thousands of images of
8:27
Speaker 6: child exportation material, categorizing them from bad to really bad.
8:32
Speaker 2: I'll not be there for a minute. I bet you
8:33
Speaker 2: can call up a couple of those images right now.
8:35
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely yeah. They will never leave you, never leave you.
8:39
Speaker 6: Makes you question humanity, thinking, how the hell can people
8:42
Speaker 6: consider this or do this, even think about it, or
8:44
Speaker 6: even do it. I just don't get it. And yes,
8:46
Speaker 6: it does have an effect in your over time and
8:48
Speaker 6: your life.
8:49
Speaker 4: Said, that's enough.
8:50
Speaker 2: Like you're coming home, you were what you're feeling depressed
8:52
Speaker 2: or you're feeling sad?
8:53
Speaker 1: What was the I wasn't feeling.
8:55
Speaker 6: I felt okay, like I thought I was compartmentalizing it
8:58
Speaker 6: quite okay within myself. But on reflection, I thought, you
9:01
Speaker 6: know what, I spent the last half an hour on
9:03
Speaker 6: my drive back home from work listening to classical music,
9:07
Speaker 6: and I thought, well, the hell was I listening to
9:08
Speaker 6: classical music?
9:10
Speaker 1: You know?
9:10
Speaker 2: And but you're normally a heavy metal guy or something,
9:12
Speaker 2: or it's just normally a normal rock and roll But
9:16
Speaker 2: and then it's sort of a reflected back a lot.
9:18
Speaker 1: You know what.
9:18
Speaker 6: It's probably me subconsciously thinking I just need to come down,
9:22
Speaker 6: just slow down a bit, because the brain's just gone
9:23
Speaker 6: a bit. Haywhy so yeah she was right, Yeah, I
9:27
Speaker 6: believe it or not, she was right, if stayed married.
9:30
Speaker 6: We are still married, happily married, and I haven't gone
9:32
Speaker 6: back to soccer. But you know, I really do think that,
9:35
Speaker 6: you know, those types of areas in pol need to
9:37
Speaker 6: have a certain tenure. We shouldn't be there more than
9:40
Speaker 6: a couple of years. I don't think it's just it
9:42
Speaker 6: is difficult work.
9:43
Speaker 2: That's an interesting point because there's been criticism in the
9:45
Speaker 2: past where units have been broken up because there's a
9:48
Speaker 2: tendency for people to be entrenched in certain ways of
9:51
Speaker 2: thinking or operation takeover and sometimes it might be in
9:55
Speaker 2: contravenial at least against the interests of the higher ups,
9:58
Speaker 2: and so they want to move around, and particularly sergeants,
10:00
Speaker 2: they want to move those sergeants around. Things like that.
10:02
Speaker 2: But you're saying it's a good thing overall in certain areas.
10:05
Speaker 6: I think in certain areas we still need to have
10:07
Speaker 6: that expertise stay within the unit. But with soccer, because
10:10
Speaker 6: the work's so demanding and so traumatic, we really do
10:14
Speaker 6: need to pay close attention to the people that are
10:16
Speaker 6: within those units because I think you'll find there be
10:18
Speaker 6: a higher rate of PTSD coming out of those units
10:22
Speaker 6: in particular. So could it be a case of having
10:25
Speaker 6: a cycle or some sort of wellbeing services attached to
10:29
Speaker 6: those units, I think would be a good idea.
10:31
Speaker 2: Well, making it mandatory, I think it's not mandatory currently,
10:33
Speaker 2: is that if you've got those experiences, and I think
10:36
Speaker 2: a lot of officers find themselves saying I don't want
10:38
Speaker 2: to show what I'm going through because you know, I
10:42
Speaker 2: might get pulled off the road.
10:43
Speaker 6: Yeah, and we still have that bravado as well that
10:45
Speaker 6: goes with the job, unfoll of. We want to put
10:47
Speaker 6: on that face, that front, which is part of us
10:49
Speaker 6: dealing with a lot of the trauma that we come
10:51
Speaker 6: across in our work.
10:53
Speaker 1: That's what we do, that's our professional outlook.
10:55
Speaker 6: But I think having that mandatory, maybe not mandatory, but
10:59
Speaker 6: definitely encouraged to have those appointments, you know, those people
11:03
Speaker 6: attached to or even sitting in the same office, you know,
11:06
Speaker 6: And could be a case of going up to someone saying, look,
11:08
Speaker 6: I just wouldn't want having a chapter ten minutes about something.
11:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, no worries.
11:12
Speaker 6: I think the culture within vic pols changed a lot
11:14
Speaker 6: that we can openly now come out.
11:16
Speaker 1: And sort of discuss these issues, which is a good thing.
11:18
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's important because retention is such a
11:21
Speaker 2: big issue. And if people flame out and leave after five, seven,
11:25
Speaker 2: ten years, particular when they've become senior connies or sergeants,
11:28
Speaker 2: I mean a lot of experience walks out the door,
11:30
Speaker 2: and that's literally taxpayers money walking out the door and
11:33
Speaker 2: a loss of security. And I think it's really about
11:35
Speaker 2: how people are managed. Because I remember doing work with
11:38
Speaker 2: Sofl's police on their sexual offenses teams, and they've got
11:42
Speaker 2: Operation Trawler up there where they have people posing as
11:45
Speaker 2: young people luring these pedophiles and what not online, and
11:49
Speaker 2: I felt they were very well managed and the morale
11:51
Speaker 2: was sky high, and people I spoke to said, we're
11:54
Speaker 2: busting to get to work. We love it, and we
11:57
Speaker 2: feel like we're well supported. So that's a good example.
11:59
Speaker 2: I think of the as one famous line where his
12:02
Speaker 2: sergeant said to me, she said, I just love the
12:05
Speaker 2: sound of handcuffs snapping on a pedophile.
12:07
Speaker 1: You know that's good. I love it. Yeah, that's very good.
12:10
Speaker 6: And I think we can learn a lot from interstate
12:12
Speaker 6: colleagues and police international for sure. So yeah, there's nothing
12:16
Speaker 6: wrong with going and looking outside Victoria and just seeing
12:19
Speaker 6: how people do it the best practice, because I think
12:22
Speaker 6: we can do it a lot better here with PREDSD
12:24
Speaker 6: and mental health, that's for sure.
12:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I've got to say I've dealt with criminals,
12:30
Speaker 2: with soldiers, with police, and some form of trauma is
12:34
Speaker 2: always going to be there. And I think it's got
12:36
Speaker 2: to be imprinted in the academy that you're going to
12:39
Speaker 2: have something here. Some duco is going to get knocked
12:42
Speaker 2: off the chrome and you're going to have to deal
12:44
Speaker 2: with it. And I think, as you say, police forces
12:47
Speaker 2: are generally starting to turn onto that tell me how
12:50
Speaker 2: different was it going from the West to Victoria.
12:53
Speaker 6: It was a lot different, Funnily enough, Like I thought
12:55
Speaker 6: Victoria might have been ahead of the game, but it
12:58
Speaker 6: was actually behind in a lot of aspects. Western Australia
13:01
Speaker 6: had really good family violence programs and family violence intervention
13:05
Speaker 6: criminal legislation, whereas Victoria was quite behind in that regard.
13:10
Speaker 6: Victoria had the old Smith and Wesson six shooters, had
13:13
Speaker 6: the glocks. I went from a revolver to a glock,
13:17
Speaker 6: come to Victoria, went back to a revolver. You know,
13:19
Speaker 6: now we've got the semi automatic pistols, the forty cows.
13:22
Speaker 6: So it was really interesting to see how behind vic
13:25
Speaker 6: Pole really was, but they are obviously getting very very
13:29
Speaker 6: good with their processes and systems now. And I think
13:31
Speaker 6: the new Chief Commission is doing a very good job.
13:33
Speaker 6: I've got to be honest. He's doing a really good job.
13:35
Speaker 2: Plug for the boss. That's a good luck for the boss.
13:37
Speaker 2: I think he's doing well. I think he's communicating well.
13:40
Speaker 2: I mean, you look more like a skill teacher still
13:42
Speaker 2: than the copper, with all due respect, okay, And I
13:45
Speaker 2: think those skills you would have learned as a teacher,
13:48
Speaker 2: and I'm talking about the boss as well. If you've
13:49
Speaker 2: got those communications skills, life is going to be better.
13:53
Speaker 1: Yeah.
13:53
Speaker 6: Yeah, Communication is thousand percent the best part of Victoria Police.
13:58
Speaker 6: If you can't communicate, then you'ld never be a good
14:02
Speaker 6: copper at all.
14:03
Speaker 1: So communication is.
14:04
Speaker 6: Key, and I think it comes from the top down.
14:06
Speaker 6: And he's communicating a lot with his troops, which is good.
14:09
Speaker 6: And some of the changes that he's considering and implementing
14:12
Speaker 6: seems to be on the right path. So yeah, kudos
14:15
Speaker 6: to him, and yeah, we can improve the system.
14:18
Speaker 4: You need to answer this one.
14:19
Speaker 2: I think everything's good except for that one helicopter flight
14:21
Speaker 2: to Tasmania. I think he's learned very quickly, and I
14:24
Speaker 2: think that was about I honestly think that was more
14:26
Speaker 2: about understanding the culture of the place and how things
14:30
Speaker 2: would run when it's on the front page of the
14:31
Speaker 2: Herald Son and having a staff officer who can say boss.
14:35
Speaker 2: I don't think he should do that, but I think
14:36
Speaker 2: he's learned his lessons. I think particularly should have Dezzi
14:38
Speaker 2: Freeman the situation. I think he communicated very strongly and
14:41
Speaker 2: was out there. By contrast to the mistakes that happened
14:45
Speaker 2: up in Sydney when the former commissioner up there police
14:48
Speaker 2: officer allegedly shoots two other men and she's not out
14:53
Speaker 2: there the next day talking about the fact here's someone
14:56
Speaker 2: who's used their service pistol to kill two members of
14:58
Speaker 2: the public. Boy, you've got to be communicating, and as
15:03
Speaker 2: a trainer you obviously be.
15:05
Speaker 4: That's part of your business now as well.
15:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
15:08
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm fortunate and proud to be part of the
15:11
Speaker 6: training wing. This is where we all begin our careers
15:15
Speaker 6: at the Academy. Through training. We're only be guided by
15:18
Speaker 6: the programs and things that we have with training. So
15:21
Speaker 6: we've got a really good system that we have at
15:23
Speaker 6: the main in terms of the firearms and your tactics training,
15:26
Speaker 6: et cetera. We do have good equipment and with the tasers,
15:29
Speaker 6: so I being involved in the taser rollout as well
15:32
Speaker 6: with the T sevens, very good piece of kit. Doesn't
15:35
Speaker 6: work all the times, but it works, you know, a
15:37
Speaker 6: lot of the times, and it's a non lethal option,
15:40
Speaker 6: which is fantastic because up until now all we have
15:42
Speaker 6: was just a bat and spray and firearm, so you
15:44
Speaker 6: had really.
15:44
Speaker 1: Had nothing in the middle.
15:46
Speaker 6: So your tasers are being used more and more, which
15:48
Speaker 6: is really good, which means you know, less lethal.
15:51
Speaker 2: I know George Hateley who actually brought tases first into
15:54
Speaker 2: this country X Special Operations Group, and the resistance to
15:58
Speaker 2: that in the beginning was ridiculous and you think how
16:01
Speaker 2: many lives has that change saved exactly, And.
16:07
Speaker 4: There's no content.
16:08
Speaker 2: Still people argue about issues with the taser, butit often
16:11
Speaker 2: it's to do with as I understand, operator error.
16:15
Speaker 6: Yeah, a lot of it's to do with distance at
16:17
Speaker 6: the moment. So with the tays that we have at
16:20
Speaker 6: the moment, if you're very close to an offender and
16:22
Speaker 6: you deploy, you'll learn to get a very small what
16:25
Speaker 6: they call neuromuscular incapacitation and am I. But if you
16:28
Speaker 6: have that distance from about four or six meters, you
16:30
Speaker 6: get a bigger spread to get that bigger.
16:32
Speaker 1: M I, which is more of a lock up. So
16:34
Speaker 1: your whole body is.
16:35
Speaker 6: Going to lock up if you get that big speed.
16:37
Speaker 6: But if it's only a very close quarter deployment, then
16:39
Speaker 6: you'll learn to get a very small lock up of
16:42
Speaker 6: the body. So therefore you need to go into it
16:44
Speaker 6: either another deployment because you have two cartridges, or just
16:47
Speaker 6: to another tactical option. So, like I said, it doesn't
16:50
Speaker 6: work all the time, but it is more than effective.
16:52
Speaker 6: And obviously we don't have to draw our firearms as
16:54
Speaker 6: much now or deployer firearms, which is which is a
16:57
Speaker 6: good thing.
16:59
Speaker 2: So just explain what your training role exactly is now.
17:03
Speaker 6: Yeah, So at the moment, I'm doing the Taser rollout,
17:05
Speaker 6: so we're teaching all the frontline workers how to use
17:08
Speaker 6: their taser. It's a two day course that ic POLE does.
17:10
Speaker 6: And whilst I'm not doing that, I'm at the Operational
17:13
Speaker 6: Safety and Tactics Training Unit, so as an OST instructor,
17:17
Speaker 6: and what we do there is just go through the
17:19
Speaker 6: current Every six months, we have a package at the moment.
17:22
Speaker 6: It's about vehicle and mobilizing devices, so the deployment of
17:25
Speaker 6: your stop sticks. So we do that, we do defensive
17:28
Speaker 6: tactics as well, we do a session on that, we
17:31
Speaker 6: do our firearms requalification and we practice the skills on
17:34
Speaker 6: those as well. So yeah, that's a day course for
17:38
Speaker 6: the participants that are coming through. So every police officer
17:41
Speaker 6: every six months has to go through on us training
17:43
Speaker 6: day right right.
17:44
Speaker 2: The stopsticks very topical that one because we've got a
17:47
Speaker 2: history in Victoria and I guess New South Wales as well,
17:49
Speaker 2: high speed pursuits leading to fatalities, public insecurity and so forth,
17:54
Speaker 2: and the idea that when you're stopping people, you're doing
17:57
Speaker 2: it a slow speed rather than a high speed.
17:59
Speaker 4: And the stop sticks.
18:00
Speaker 2: When I've seen this all rolling out, when you've got
18:02
Speaker 2: the two five to one sergeant rolling in the vehicle,
18:04
Speaker 2: he's got them in of the air wing up there
18:06
Speaker 2: and the air wings directing where are the offenders where
18:09
Speaker 2: they go, and they've got the flur camera there and
18:11
Speaker 2: you're seeing how they deploy the various members with their stopsticks,
18:16
Speaker 2: hurting them into lower risk areas, slowing them down, hitting
18:20
Speaker 2: them with the stopsticks and bringing things to a good resolution.
18:24
Speaker 6: It's a very good tactic, extremely good tactic. Obviously, you
18:27
Speaker 6: still can drive on your rims, but it does, like
18:30
Speaker 6: you said, slow them down and make it a lot
18:32
Speaker 6: more less riskier, less fatalities, less serious injuries for not
18:36
Speaker 6: only the offenders but also your police as well.
18:39
Speaker 4: So yes, good, it's also very satisfying.
18:42
Speaker 2: I speaking to one sergeant is said, the only problem
18:44
Speaker 2: with this current eraet always aggravated burglaries and cars being
18:47
Speaker 2: taken and all these PURSUITSI is one day it's going
18:49
Speaker 2: to end. I'll be sorry when that day comes, because
18:52
Speaker 2: when they stop these guys and they catch.
18:53
Speaker 4: The bad guys, it's extremely satisfying.
18:56
Speaker 2: It is.
18:56
Speaker 6: It is extremely satisfying until they go through the court
18:59
Speaker 6: process and then you see the same people out the
19:02
Speaker 6: next day or the next week. That becomes very frustrated.
19:05
Speaker 6: That's a massively frustrating part of the job. And that's
19:08
Speaker 6: another reason why I'm looking at Parliament trying to get
19:11
Speaker 6: into making sure that that legislation does reflect the community standards.
19:15
Speaker 2: But I've got to say, and I do meet politicians
19:17
Speaker 2: and the police force who aren't elected, and they talk
19:19
Speaker 2: a lot about this.
19:21
Speaker 4: The policeman's role.
19:22
Speaker 2: A police officer's role is to adduce the evidence, put
19:26
Speaker 2: the offender before the court. The sentence is not up
19:28
Speaker 2: to you, and I think that's a problem to frustration
19:31
Speaker 2: and the cause of stress for police officers about not
19:34
Speaker 2: knowing where the swim lane is, where the judiciary takes over.
19:39
Speaker 6: And there's a lot of work that goes into a
19:40
Speaker 6: brief of evidence, a hell of a lot of work
19:42
Speaker 6: that goes into it, and sometimes just to see the
19:45
Speaker 6: offender walk away or get a CCO or.
19:48
Speaker 1: Get a fine.
19:49
Speaker 6: It is incredibly frustrating, and not only for the amount
19:52
Speaker 6: of work that you put in, but more so the
19:53
Speaker 6: safety of the community. There are some things that happen
19:56
Speaker 6: and we just shake our heads and think, how the
19:58
Speaker 6: hell can this person be out on bail or how
20:00
Speaker 6: the hell can this person not get a sentence custody
20:04
Speaker 6: or sentence, you know, suspended sentence CEO. Fine is one thing,
20:09
Speaker 6: but it's not being put behind bars, which tends to
20:12
Speaker 6: have a different effect on people to deprave them from
20:14
Speaker 6: their liberty.
20:16
Speaker 2: Well, but also you play Devil's advocates slightly on this one,
20:18
Speaker 2: and with younger people if we're putting them behind bars.
20:23
Speaker 2: We take them out of training, out of education, away
20:25
Speaker 2: from their families, and put them with real criminals. Yeah,
20:28
Speaker 2: you know, the jail is called the college of knowledge,
20:30
Speaker 2: not for nothing. And there is a public interest in
20:34
Speaker 2: I guess diversion rather than incarceration at times. And I
20:38
Speaker 2: guess this is where the politics starts, isn't it. And
20:40
Speaker 2: I wonder, You've got a good career serving the public,
20:44
Speaker 2: Yet why do you want to go into politics.
20:45
Speaker 4: He've already been there.
20:46
Speaker 2: But why did you want to go into politics when
20:49
Speaker 2: you can serve the public directly as a police officer.
20:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there's sort of two streams.
20:53
Speaker 6: You can serve the public directly as a police officer,
20:56
Speaker 6: but as a politician, you can change legislation. You can
20:59
Speaker 6: change laws, you can amend sentencing, you can do those
21:02
Speaker 6: things that really matter.
21:03
Speaker 1: At the end of the day.
21:04
Speaker 6: Police officers to do so much, but politicians have the
21:07
Speaker 6: power to change things. So that's why I want to
21:09
Speaker 6: get back into politics. But just on the kids going
21:11
Speaker 6: to jail, that's the last resort, right, we don't want
21:14
Speaker 6: to see kids in jail.
21:15
Speaker 1: That's fair enough.
21:16
Speaker 6: Some kids, you know, obviously commit crime that puts them
21:20
Speaker 6: in a position where they're just too dangerous to be
21:22
Speaker 6: able the community, so they've got to be behind bars.
21:24
Speaker 6: But what do we do with them while they're there.
21:25
Speaker 6: We need to have education in there, We need to
21:27
Speaker 6: have programs, We need to have funding for those programs
21:30
Speaker 6: to be running there because we want them coming out
21:32
Speaker 6: being better than what they were going in. And what's
21:34
Speaker 6: happening at the moment is that they're going in and
21:36
Speaker 6: coming out either.
21:36
Speaker 1: Exactly the same or worse.
21:38
Speaker 6: So once again, get into politics to try to divert
21:41
Speaker 6: or make sure they've got those programs and policies and
21:44
Speaker 6: funding in those areas where to make a difference to
21:46
Speaker 6: those young kids, because otherwise that well was just going
21:48
Speaker 6: to keep turning.
21:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Oh my dad used to threaten me
21:51
Speaker 2: whenever I was bad, is I send you to reform school.
21:53
Speaker 2: Some take out this cushy private school and send you
21:56
Speaker 2: to a place where you break rocks or something or
21:58
Speaker 2: and I think there should be some sort of I'm
22:00
Speaker 2: old fashioned there because of my dad, I guess, but
22:02
Speaker 2: some alternative where like old prison farm or places where
22:06
Speaker 2: kids can be out working, being mentored by older people,
22:10
Speaker 2: working with animals. All these different options that psychologists are
22:13
Speaker 2: telling us are better options than just locking them up.
22:16
Speaker 6: Yeah, there are some amazing probers that are working for
22:18
Speaker 6: young kids, for juvenile offenders, absolutely, and we should be
22:21
Speaker 6: focusing more on them, for sure. So we need to
22:24
Speaker 6: be doing more in that space, a hell lot more
22:26
Speaker 6: with our kids, even younger, you know, get them at school,
22:29
Speaker 6: like in the early days, preps kindies, you know, identify
22:32
Speaker 6: those kids that are at risk, the families that are
22:34
Speaker 6: at risk, show them with resources, They share them money,
22:38
Speaker 6: share them with resources, you know, family counseling sessions with doctors, GPS, pediatricians,
22:44
Speaker 6: et cetera. So that we can really get on top
22:46
Speaker 6: of it when they're young, because if you let them
22:48
Speaker 6: go too far down the track, it's quite often too late.
22:51
Speaker 6: So that's another thing that we need to be focusing
22:53
Speaker 6: more on. That early intervention.
22:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, that's when politics comes in. You can actually
22:58
Speaker 2: affect policy and so forth. So tell us about how
23:00
Speaker 2: did you first get into politics.
23:02
Speaker 1: I actually was thinking about it.
23:04
Speaker 6: I was at the g him and I was in
23:06
Speaker 6: Victoria Police at the time, and I saw Darren Hinch
23:08
Speaker 6: come up on one of the morning TV shows and
23:11
Speaker 6: he was announcing he's run back then as a senator
23:14
Speaker 6: for the Federal Parliament, and I remember talking to my
23:18
Speaker 6: wife and I said, just talking about thinking about this
23:20
Speaker 6: the other day, this is what Darren's doing. I think
23:23
Speaker 6: I might reach out to him and just say, look,
23:24
Speaker 6: I'm in the police if you want to know some
23:27
Speaker 6: information or I'm happy to talk to you about some
23:29
Speaker 6: of the issues facing the Victoria police in the front line,
23:32
Speaker 6: happy to talk. So I sent him a message on
23:35
Speaker 6: email and he got back to me and he said, yeah,
23:37
Speaker 6: let's catch up. We caught up, had a coffee and
23:40
Speaker 6: at the end of that coffee he said, would you
23:41
Speaker 6: like to be my running mate when I go for parliament?
23:44
Speaker 1: I said absolutely? Or what I was a bit surprise,
23:46
Speaker 1: but for sure.
23:48
Speaker 6: So as it turned out, yeah, I was his running
23:50
Speaker 6: mate when he was elected. Unfortunately, I didn't get enough
23:53
Speaker 6: vos to get elected. I wasn't expecting it, but it
23:55
Speaker 6: was just good to be part of that process after
23:57
Speaker 6: being unsuccessful. He said to me, look, I promise you
24:00
Speaker 6: that we'll do all our best to get you up
24:02
Speaker 6: in the state when the state election rolls around in
24:04
Speaker 6: twenty eight and he did. Stuck boy's word. We've kept
24:07
Speaker 6: in touch ever since. We're good friends now. Caught over
24:09
Speaker 6: him last week. He's doing really well and he has
24:12
Speaker 6: his health struggles at the moment, but he's still sharp
24:14
Speaker 6: as attack and he's still a big supporter of the
24:16
Speaker 6: Frontline Worker's Party. What I'm trying to do, and I
24:19
Speaker 6: really do appreciate that.
24:20
Speaker 2: Tell us about your stint though you had you already
24:22
Speaker 2: had a stint in Parliament.
24:24
Speaker 4: How did that come about? And what were the goals
24:26
Speaker 4: that you came there with?
24:27
Speaker 1: That was under Darren Hint's Justice Party banner.
24:30
Speaker 6: We all had a particular platform there which a little
24:32
Speaker 6: bit justice clearly and trying to get a public register
24:35
Speaker 6: of sex offenders up as well or something part there
24:38
Speaker 6: rock which we tried to do. On reflection, what I
24:41
Speaker 6: do things differently. I was there for four years, Yes,
24:43
Speaker 6: I absolutely would. I was there during the pandemic legislation,
24:46
Speaker 6: state of emergencies. I think if I am successful this time,
24:49
Speaker 6: a bit more flexible, less naive, I'm not going to.
24:52
Speaker 2: Or you might become a politician. Yes that's an infamousm flexible, pragmatic.
24:58
Speaker 1: Or thicker skin perhaps, But yeah, at.
25:01
Speaker 2: The time, I think you're thinking of a particular incident
25:03
Speaker 2: what happened.
25:04
Speaker 1: It was more around the panandemic.
25:05
Speaker 6: The legislation state of emergency where we were really forced
25:08
Speaker 6: into making a decision on that, and to be honest
25:10
Speaker 6: with it, like I wasn't a fan of the legislation
25:12
Speaker 6: that they proposed. I wanted to see some sort of
25:15
Speaker 6: traffic light system, whereas we had im in western Victoria.
25:18
Speaker 6: So we had people in Neil Warwick and a bill
25:20
Speaker 6: that were all shut down. The whole communities were shut down,
25:22
Speaker 6: tiny communities, and there was no real reason to shut
25:25
Speaker 6: that whole community down because nobody was traveling at the time,
25:29
Speaker 6: So why can we have those little communities open for
25:31
Speaker 6: business where they can open the news agencies, dose sorts
25:34
Speaker 6: of things, get your groceries and things, and farmers didn't
25:37
Speaker 6: have to wear masks, you know. So I proposed that
25:39
Speaker 6: to the government at the time and they weren't a
25:42
Speaker 6: fan of that idea. So we couldn't support the legislation.
25:45
Speaker 6: But I still got a few phone calls in the
25:47
Speaker 6: late hours of the night encouraging mely strongly to change
25:51
Speaker 6: my mind, which we didn't.
25:53
Speaker 1: We didn't do any what they call horse.
25:55
Speaker 6: Trading, not that we're really offered anything, but we did
25:58
Speaker 6: do any of that, and it does go on despite
26:00
Speaker 6: what other parties say.
26:01
Speaker 1: Of course it goes on. Yeah, absolutely goes on. So
26:03
Speaker 1: we stuck by our words in highs.
26:05
Speaker 6: I could have done things a little bit differently, been
26:06
Speaker 6: a bit more open, but yeah, that's the way the
26:09
Speaker 6: cookie crumbles.
26:09
Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, they got their
26:10
Speaker 1: legislation over the line regardless.
26:14
Speaker 4: And so how did that end for You's thin?
26:16
Speaker 1: How did it end for me?
26:17
Speaker 6: Well, we've got a few things in terms of resources
26:20
Speaker 6: and programs up and running. At the end of it,
26:22
Speaker 6: though we weren't successful in being re elected.
26:24
Speaker 1: Why.
26:25
Speaker 6: I think it all came down to preferencing and preference
26:27
Speaker 6: deals that have an effect on minor parties. As most
26:30
Speaker 6: people know, the system in Victoria is not ideal, but
26:33
Speaker 6: it is what it is. So yeah, preferencing is a
26:36
Speaker 6: big thing for minor parties, makes it very difficult. So
26:39
Speaker 6: you've got to talk to every single minor party and
26:41
Speaker 6: work together. And unfortunately in twenty twenty two, a few
26:46
Speaker 6: minor parties were very much opposed to each other and
26:49
Speaker 6: undercut each other and it really cost us a few seats,
26:53
Speaker 6: and a few seats went to the Greens rather than
26:55
Speaker 6: to minor parties. So yeah, we'll see what happens this election.
26:58
Speaker 6: Hopefully we can get across the line. Yes, you've come
27:00
Speaker 6: back bigger and better. You've learned from your experiences. Tell
27:04
Speaker 6: us about your party. Yeah, So the Frontline Workers Party
27:06
Speaker 6: obviously is there to support all the frontline It's not
27:09
Speaker 6: only the police, nurses, fires, ambos, teachers, correction workers, CFA, sees,
27:14
Speaker 6: essentral services, transport workers. So one of my neighbors is
27:18
Speaker 6: a vline driver and he was saying, can you include
27:21
Speaker 6: us in the frontline Workers? But I said absolutely, yeah, absolutely,
27:25
Speaker 6: anyone who's you know, servicing the community is there, in
27:28
Speaker 6: particular those on the emergency frontline, emergency service frontline, dealing
27:31
Speaker 6: with those in the time of need. All right, We're
27:34
Speaker 6: there to support, all right. So my goal is get
27:37
Speaker 6: the party registered with the VEC, which is a process,
27:41
Speaker 6: and we're almost there, but we've got a bit to go.
27:43
Speaker 1: So we need members, we need more members.
27:46
Speaker 6: And hopefully get elected into Parliament and start having that
27:50
Speaker 6: real voice, that real representation of frontline workers. We're not
27:53
Speaker 6: career politicians, we're not unionists, we're not allied to any
27:56
Speaker 6: major party at all. All right, this is just me
27:58
Speaker 6: doing this. I'm funding it myself. So we just want
28:01
Speaker 6: to have those real people in parliament to make that difference.
28:05
Speaker 4: The preference system.
28:06
Speaker 2: I'm not into politics, to be perfectly honest, and I
28:08
Speaker 2: don't think it meets the broad mass of our population anymore.
28:11
Speaker 4: And I think there's so much horse trading.
28:13
Speaker 2: You talked about that with the preferential system and minor parties,
28:16
Speaker 2: and we see now the rise of.
28:18
Speaker 4: Pauline Hanson's One Nation.
28:20
Speaker 2: People would be shocked to know that in all the
28:23
Speaker 2: years she's been in Parliament, she's not past one piece
28:27
Speaker 2: of legislation. How on earth can you put yourself up
28:31
Speaker 2: as an alternative government when all you've done is do deals.
28:35
Speaker 2: You've never even changed anything really apart from influencing things
28:39
Speaker 2: by withholding a vote here or there.
28:42
Speaker 4: So I mean, how do you stay.
28:45
Speaker 2: Focused on the actual needs of the population when you
28:48
Speaker 2: have to play politics.
28:50
Speaker 1: By staying strong, by sticking to your beliefs.
28:52
Speaker 6: And I think that's sort of could have cost me
28:54
Speaker 6: ultimately when I was in last time, by not being
28:57
Speaker 6: a little bit more flexible.
28:58
Speaker 1: But that's the top of person I am.
28:59
Speaker 6: I just got to stick to my beliefs, right, this
29:01
Speaker 6: is what we want to achieve and We'll just keep
29:03
Speaker 6: putting her head down, bum up and just trying to
29:05
Speaker 6: get those goals across the line. That's something that won't
29:07
Speaker 6: change in terms of the one nation. That's the reflection
29:10
Speaker 6: I'll take of the community at the moment. All right,
29:12
Speaker 6: we just fed up with the major parties. We've fed
29:14
Speaker 6: up with the spin, the rhetoric, the talk. Now there's
29:17
Speaker 6: no actions. It's all talk. We know half the time
29:20
Speaker 6: what they say is bullshit. Let's be honest, we all
29:22
Speaker 6: know it, but we just don't see it in action. Okay,
29:25
Speaker 6: do something, all right, show us something that's really going
29:28
Speaker 6: to have a positive effect on the community. Don't just
29:31
Speaker 6: keep spinning us around and around, which we have been
29:33
Speaker 6: I believe we have been over many, many years, and
29:35
Speaker 6: people are getting fed up. It's a bit of a
29:37
Speaker 6: protest vote, I think for one nation, not that they
29:39
Speaker 6: really know exactly what all their policies are about. If
29:42
Speaker 6: you have a close look, some of them are a
29:43
Speaker 6: bit out there, let's be honest. But I think it's
29:46
Speaker 6: more of a reflection of the protest vote from the
29:48
Speaker 6: community rather than supporting what they're stand for.
29:50
Speaker 2: And look what they gave us to the America. Donald Trump,
29:52
Speaker 2: I think this populism. The problem with populism it offers
29:56
Speaker 2: simplistic solutions often that aren't practical to complex problems. Yep,
30:03
Speaker 2: and particularly where am I the party has an ability
30:06
Speaker 2: to affect outcomes of the major parties, this can pollute
30:11
Speaker 2: the system. I think, what could your mates and the
30:15
Speaker 2: police force expect in terms of real policy, real change
30:19
Speaker 2: is real improvements.
30:21
Speaker 6: If you're elected, Yeah, well, at least they know they've
30:23
Speaker 6: got someone in there who's got their back, all right,
30:25
Speaker 6: because at the moment there's just no one in there
30:27
Speaker 6: that's got the back.
30:28
Speaker 1: So what can they expect.
30:29
Speaker 6: They can expect resources, they can expect funding programs, positive
30:34
Speaker 6: programs that's going to support them, and particularly with mental health,
30:36
Speaker 6: and that's going to be a strong focus of mine,
30:38
Speaker 6: is mental health, keeping that retention, keeping those experienced members
30:42
Speaker 6: in the police force, looking after them all right, looking
30:45
Speaker 6: after them even post their career. We need to do
30:48
Speaker 6: more to look after our veterans that have left the service.
30:51
Speaker 6: Left the force absolutely, but yeah, having their back, having
30:55
Speaker 6: their back in parliament, making sure the legislation is reflective
30:57
Speaker 6: of the community stands and reflective of what Victoria police
31:00
Speaker 6: are expecting as well, and that means meeting and having
31:02
Speaker 6: discussions with Chief Commissioner Assistant Commissioner whilst I'm in Parliament.
31:07
Speaker 1: I did it once, only once when I was.
31:09
Speaker 6: There, because unfortunately, you've got to be chaperone by a
31:11
Speaker 6: member of the government to have a meeting with the
31:13
Speaker 6: Chief Commissioner as a member of a minor party, which
31:16
Speaker 6: makes it difficult for the chief to speak openly, which
31:19
Speaker 6: was an eye opener for me at the time. So
31:22
Speaker 6: from then on I couldn't really have any meetings with
31:24
Speaker 6: any command in Victoria Police, which was difficult. So most
31:27
Speaker 6: of my communication was with through Wayne Gat through the
31:30
Speaker 6: Police Association Union, a very strong supporter, great man. So
31:34
Speaker 6: I'll be continuing that relationship as well, and I have
31:36
Speaker 6: continued it even in Victoria Police. We still talk regularly,
31:40
Speaker 6: So yeah, that's going to continue, and listening to them
31:43
Speaker 6: and hearing their concerns and raising that in Parliament on
31:46
Speaker 6: their behalf and trying to make changes, positive changes on
31:49
Speaker 6: their behalf.
31:51
Speaker 2: I mean, I think we hear a lot about an
31:53
Speaker 2: epidemic of crime, particularly youth crime. We were talking about before.
31:56
Speaker 2: I mean, bail laws are a huge issue. We talked
31:59
Speaker 2: about that, parole, all these sorts of things, keeping people
32:02
Speaker 2: behind bars who should be there, letting that early you
32:05
Speaker 2: have a say on those sort of issues.
32:07
Speaker 1: Yeah.
32:07
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's really tricky. It is very tricky because you
32:10
Speaker 6: can only do so much as I want. A party
32:12
Speaker 6: can only do so much. But once again, I'll be
32:14
Speaker 6: there just to say, look, the system's not working. It's
32:16
Speaker 6: falling down in these areas here. Push back on the government,
32:19
Speaker 6: all right, let's do something about it. What are you
32:21
Speaker 6: going to do about youth offending? All right, we can't
32:23
Speaker 6: just build another prison. Okay, some stage you're going to
32:27
Speaker 6: have to start looking at programs, looking at that early
32:29
Speaker 6: intervention and doing something positive before those kids get into trouble,
32:33
Speaker 6: or as soon as they get into trouble, do something
32:35
Speaker 6: about it.
32:35
Speaker 1: Right.
32:36
Speaker 6: Have those rehabilitation programs focus on the young, okay, rather
32:40
Speaker 6: than the prisons. Focus on those programs that are going
32:42
Speaker 6: to support them and make them better contributors to society,
32:46
Speaker 6: rather than what we're seeing at the moment with a
32:48
Speaker 6: lot of.
32:48
Speaker 1: The young kids.
32:49
Speaker 6: They're just so disenfranchised with society and easily easily manipulated
32:54
Speaker 6: by older people.
32:56
Speaker 2: Boy, and the violence is unbelievable. The machetes we're seeing
32:59
Speaker 2: here in Melbourne. I mean, there was another attack last
33:01
Speaker 2: night at Oakley in the Greek cafe, and this follows
33:04
Speaker 2: that much wanted machete amnesty.
33:07
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm not so sure how many machetes we've got
33:09
Speaker 6: at the end of the day.
33:10
Speaker 2: Who makes up these ideas? I mean, in my local
33:14
Speaker 2: station here they put the bin right outside the police station.
33:17
Speaker 2: What do they think was going to happen. It's the
33:20
Speaker 2: strangest thing I've ever seen. It was a thirty million
33:21
Speaker 2: dollar fuck up.
33:22
Speaker 6: Really Yeah, and I'd rather see that thirty million dollars
33:25
Speaker 6: go into programs for the kids, for the young offenders
33:27
Speaker 6: for the years. Put that thirty million into the prisons,
33:30
Speaker 6: into programs into the prisons, because you'll get more outcome
33:33
Speaker 6: from that than what you will someone just dropping in
33:35
Speaker 6: a knife.
33:35
Speaker 2: Well exactly, as if it's the implement that's the problem.
33:38
Speaker 2: I mean, Bunnings is full of murder weapons. Ye can't
33:41
Speaker 2: get anything you want. So the whole thing just seems
33:44
Speaker 2: to be a band aid by politicians who I guess
33:47
Speaker 2: they're captive to various social interests.
33:50
Speaker 6: Well I'm not too sure where they're getting their advice from,
33:53
Speaker 6: but you're right, it's like putting a band aid on
33:54
Speaker 6: a bullet wound. You're not going to stop what's happening
33:57
Speaker 6: out there. You're not going to reduce that type of crime.
33:59
Speaker 6: As we can see what happened last night with a
34:01
Speaker 6: machete attack. It's still going to continue. So therefore, you
34:04
Speaker 6: need to focus on drivers behind that. You know, you
34:06
Speaker 6: need to focus on people that are doing it. You
34:08
Speaker 6: can only do that through programs, through intervention, all right,
34:11
Speaker 6: that's the key driver to all of this, is just
34:15
Speaker 6: and some of those kids are already far to gone,
34:16
Speaker 6: all right, you can't do much about those.
34:19
Speaker 1: Unfortunately at the moment, they're not going to change. But
34:22
Speaker 1: what we can do is change those that can be changed.
34:24
Speaker 6: So getting in young, getting in early, and that's where
34:26
Speaker 6: I'd hope to direct a lot of that funding. I'd
34:29
Speaker 6: be suggesting strongly to the government if I were elected,
34:33
Speaker 6: let's have that funding on those early intervention programs. So
34:35
Speaker 6: that's one of my key key goals as well.
34:38
Speaker 4: That's right.
34:39
Speaker 2: What about the criminal age of culpability? I think that's
34:42
Speaker 2: a hot topic.
34:43
Speaker 4: I think we're.
34:44
Speaker 2: Seeing bigger, more willing, younger kids getting involved in ultra
34:49
Speaker 2: violent crime. What's your take on what age should there
34:52
Speaker 2: be adult accountability for young offenders.
34:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, the adult time for adult crime. It's a tough one.
34:58
Speaker 1: It is a tough one.
34:59
Speaker 6: I don't think we need to increase our age of
35:02
Speaker 6: criminal responsibility put it that way.
35:03
Speaker 1: I think where it is is okay.
35:05
Speaker 6: But having said that, let's focus on who's actually driving
35:10
Speaker 6: and who's leading these young kids.
35:12
Speaker 1: To do these crimes as well.
35:13
Speaker 6: They're getting away with at times murder by encouraging and
35:17
Speaker 6: paying these young kids to do crimes. They're sitting back
35:21
Speaker 6: in their laund rooms directing all of this. What's happening
35:24
Speaker 6: to them? Are we catching them? I'm not too sure.
35:27
Speaker 6: I don't know, So we should be focusing on them
35:29
Speaker 6: as well. I haven't heard of too many arrests of
35:31
Speaker 6: people who have been charged with when you get a
35:34
Speaker 6: child to do a crime on your behalf arm, procuring
35:37
Speaker 6: us on the Yeah, yeah, I haven't heard of too
35:39
Speaker 6: many adults being charged with that. So yeah, it's sure
35:42
Speaker 6: what's happening in that space. But once again, Victoria Police,
35:45
Speaker 6: we can only do so much with what we've got.
35:47
Speaker 2: So yeah, and I think there's a case for much
35:50
Speaker 2: longer jail sentences for the organizers of these outrageous because
35:55
Speaker 2: they are. You're right, they do tend to remote control.
35:57
Speaker 2: This is happening through the outlaw motorcycle clubs as well,
36:00
Speaker 2: that they're getting people want to be join the club
36:02
Speaker 2: or hanging around and soay forth to do these violent crimes.
36:05
Speaker 2: But I think, well, the problem you can, you can
36:07
Speaker 2: bring as much legislation as you want into the parliament,
36:09
Speaker 2: but the common law is still a problem where you've
36:13
Speaker 2: got that what's that term dolly in capax or something
36:15
Speaker 2: where the defense can argue that this kid is so
36:18
Speaker 2: young that you can't form the criminal intent. But we're
36:21
Speaker 2: all seeing it in CCTV, we're seeing it the news,
36:24
Speaker 2: We're seeing it all over the place. And I don't
36:26
Speaker 2: know how much good do you think you can actually
36:28
Speaker 2: do when you've got to work within the system that's
36:31
Speaker 2: a very old, very established set of principles and common
36:33
Speaker 2: law in particular.
36:34
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's going to be a very very slow process,
36:37
Speaker 6: that's for sure. There's no quick fixes, unfortunately, absolutely no
36:41
Speaker 6: quick fixes. But we need to start, we need to
36:43
Speaker 6: do something. We need to start somewhere, and just ignoring
36:45
Speaker 6: the problem. I was thinking that it's too big, which
36:47
Speaker 6: it is becoming too big a problem now where do
36:49
Speaker 6: we begin? Where do we start? And I think that's
36:51
Speaker 6: half the issue. You know, this is start with a feelings.
36:54
Speaker 6: Get a few programs happening, you know, get some more
36:56
Speaker 6: mental health support in schools, all right, have more people
36:59
Speaker 6: in schools, have more police in schools, get back to
37:02
Speaker 6: the policing in schools program and stuff like that. Building
37:04
Speaker 6: those positive relationships, just those little things. Start off with
37:08
Speaker 6: a few little practical things that have can have some
37:11
Speaker 6: immediate effect. But you're right, it's a massive, massive issue
37:14
Speaker 6: and we're not I'm just just going to say, yeah,
37:15
Speaker 6: I'll get into parliament and make a change. Bang, things
37:17
Speaker 6: are going to be better. No, no, no, it's going
37:19
Speaker 6: to take a long long time. But we need to
37:21
Speaker 6: start somewhere, and you need to start by having people
37:24
Speaker 6: in Parliament that know what the issues are and encourage
37:28
Speaker 6: the government to take on board our suggestions.
37:31
Speaker 2: I don't even know when the election needs to be honest,
37:33
Speaker 2: that's how unpolitical I am.
37:34
Speaker 1: But soon is next year, in November twenty eighth, and Saturday.
37:39
Speaker 2: This year twisheit okay, good all I have to remember
37:41
Speaker 2: to vote this time off and I forget to vote police. Yeah,
37:44
Speaker 2: I definitely that they find you yeah, but not very persistently.
37:47
Speaker 4: By the way. You're just ways to get around it.
37:49
Speaker 4: And I prefer not.
37:50
Speaker 2: To vote, frankly because of some of the choices you have.
37:52
Speaker 2: I remember one election, I went into the box and
37:54
Speaker 2: I was in the polling booth and I was pretty
37:56
Speaker 2: hungover and I forgot who I voted for and walked out.
37:58
Speaker 2: Was like such an interest to me, because I'm just
38:00
Speaker 2: people are so jaded. I'm sure your mates and the
38:02
Speaker 2: police force they'd be jaded. And I wonder how much
38:05
Speaker 2: when you're working alongside people and you're talking about politics,
38:09
Speaker 2: they go like made, nothing's going to change.
38:11
Speaker 6: Yeah. I hit the phones every day after work trying
38:14
Speaker 6: to garner members to the Frontline Workers Party, And You're right,
38:18
Speaker 6: a lot of people are disenfranchised out there. They're so apathetic.
38:21
Speaker 6: They're like politics, you know, I can't be bothered, or
38:24
Speaker 6: you know, I have had a lot later to go.
38:26
Speaker 6: Whatever you do to get out, get this government out
38:27
Speaker 6: of with you. A lot of people saying that, funnily enough,
38:31
Speaker 6: but yeah, a lot are coming through saying no, I'm
38:34
Speaker 6: not interested, mate, I'm just I don't stay careful politics anymore,
38:36
Speaker 6: which is a shame because politics is the support where
38:39
Speaker 6: we think it's here to stay.
38:41
Speaker 1: And politics make the legislation.
38:43
Speaker 6: They make the laws for which we have to live
38:46
Speaker 6: by in our community.
38:47
Speaker 1: So it's a.
38:48
Speaker 6: Pretty high level in our community is parliament.
38:52
Speaker 1: So we should be more in tune.
38:54
Speaker 6: We should be more thinking about, you know, seriously considering
38:57
Speaker 6: our choices when we get to the polling boots, when
38:59
Speaker 6: we get to the ballot boxes, we really seriously think
39:02
Speaker 6: about who you're voting for.
39:03
Speaker 1: What do you want to see?
39:05
Speaker 6: What party is going to represent the best needs of
39:08
Speaker 6: the community moving forward, and just make.
39:10
Speaker 1: Your vote hurt.
39:12
Speaker 2: I think I'm typical of my age group. We've gone
39:14
Speaker 2: through all the ups and downs of politics, and you
39:17
Speaker 2: see what's happening in the society, and you say I
39:19
Speaker 2: want more governance, less politics or action less deal making.
39:23
Speaker 2: We kick go back to that issue, but I think
39:24
Speaker 2: we want to see more governance, more people think unpopular
39:27
Speaker 2: decisions that are needed, you know, yeah, more.
39:30
Speaker 6: Action, less spin, you know, less bullshit, just say how
39:35
Speaker 6: it is. If things aren't gone the way they are, Yeah, look,
39:37
Speaker 6: we're going through a tough time on them. I think
39:39
Speaker 6: we may be dropped the ball with a B or
39:41
Speaker 6: C or Yeah, we need to have more refineries, and
39:44
Speaker 6: maybe we shut that down too early. And yes, we
39:46
Speaker 6: do need renewables, but we also need to have fuel. Okay,
39:50
Speaker 6: we need to have these things in place. We can't
39:52
Speaker 6: sort of go too far ahead. We need to do
39:54
Speaker 6: it properly and sensibly, because what we're seeing at the
39:57
Speaker 6: moment is coming back to bite us in terms of
39:59
Speaker 6: the fuel in particular, like we've got no fuel and
40:03
Speaker 6: we're such a resource rich country and state and yet
40:06
Speaker 6: here we are struggling to fuel our cars and yeah,
40:09
Speaker 6: so forth, So why did that happen? You know, let's
40:12
Speaker 6: think about that and don't make those same mistakes again.
40:16
Speaker 2: Well, I think we slept walked our way into that,
40:17
Speaker 2: because I mean, I'm old enough to have seen the
40:20
Speaker 2: liquid gas boom in Australia where we export millions and
40:25
Speaker 2: millions or whatever measure is overseas, but didn't have any
40:28
Speaker 2: reserves for the local community, just a complete submission to
40:33
Speaker 2: vested interest there. And I mean I think people should
40:36
Speaker 2: walk more than the drive, but that's another debate altogether.
40:39
Speaker 2: The other group that I think is very important in
40:41
Speaker 2: your constituency are paramedics and ambulance people. Generally they're getting
40:45
Speaker 2: beaten up and abused and spat on and made of mind.
40:49
Speaker 2: Was paramedic and during the Gangland War, and he was
40:52
Speaker 2: attending some of the most gruesome scenes Mario Condela with
40:55
Speaker 2: his head shot off, you know, and people in the
40:57
Speaker 2: streets of blood tohole thing. And you know he's racked
41:00
Speaker 2: with PTSD, sells second hand golf balls at the Campbell
41:02
Speaker 2: Market now other than in his chosen career. And how
41:06
Speaker 2: do we protect paramedics a bit better and give them
41:08
Speaker 2: better conditions and secure their their mental health.
41:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a very good point.
41:13
Speaker 6: I've often said to the ambos that have come out
41:15
Speaker 6: to the jobs that I'm there, I could never do
41:17
Speaker 6: the job you do, And they say, funny enough, I
41:19
Speaker 6: can never do the job that you do. So, yeah,
41:21
Speaker 6: we've got a brogrudging with it. Well not a brograduate.
41:22
Speaker 6: We've got to respect for each other. We do a
41:24
Speaker 6: lot of the same scenes, crime scenes together. Look, I
41:27
Speaker 6: am there to support them one thousand percent. I think
41:29
Speaker 6: they do an amazing job. And you're dead right with
41:31
Speaker 6: the assaults. Why are people getting ready with the silting paramedics?
41:34
Speaker 6: You know they still have there's a six month mandatory
41:36
Speaker 6: jail term for assigning emergency service workers. How many times
41:39
Speaker 6: has that been effective? Three courts? Bugger all yeah, I'm
41:43
Speaker 6: not hearing it. Bugger all. Yeah.
41:44
Speaker 2: So if anybody out there is a paramedic, please get
41:47
Speaker 2: in touch Adam shand right at gmail dot com. Let's
41:49
Speaker 2: hear about your experiences and I can send them to
41:51
Speaker 2: Stewart and keep keep up to the mark when he
41:53
Speaker 2: gets into Parliament.
41:54
Speaker 6: So please reach out for us, please absolutely. And it's
41:57
Speaker 6: the same with the police as well, assaults on the police.
41:59
Speaker 6: So you know that mandatory six months JIL term is
42:02
Speaker 6: just not working. There's too many loop holes in it.
42:04
Speaker 6: And I say that at the time when they were
42:06
Speaker 6: introducing it, because they introduced it while I was there.
42:08
Speaker 6: So it's just not going to work the way you're
42:10
Speaker 6: doing it. It's the same with public drunkenness when they
42:12
Speaker 6: introduced that and says this is not going to work,
42:14
Speaker 6: and that was on advice on TEPAB and our own
42:17
Speaker 6: advice as well, but the government chose not to listen.
42:20
Speaker 6: They chose to sort of really push your head and
42:21
Speaker 6: punch it through. You know, I know why we have
42:24
Speaker 6: to do things so quickly in that regard where we
42:26
Speaker 6: shouldn't do it more sensibly.
42:27
Speaker 4: Well because the Herald Son makes a noise.
42:30
Speaker 6: Okay, so media, yeah, just on that like the mental health.
42:34
Speaker 6: You know, mental health is a massive thing in our community.
42:36
Speaker 6: And just what happened with the Culton football Elijah holand
42:39
Speaker 6: just as a bit of a segue, but.
42:41
Speaker 4: Yeah last night, yeah he was on the field number twenty.
42:43
Speaker 2: I'm not really football supportive, but I didn't watch that
42:45
Speaker 2: other This bloke's not well.
42:47
Speaker 1: He wasn't right, he wasn't well.
42:48
Speaker 6: But what sort of alarmed me or disappointed me I
42:51
Speaker 6: suppose was this morning on the front page. Was it
42:53
Speaker 6: was his image and then it had you know how
42:56
Speaker 6: the systems let.
42:56
Speaker 1: This person down or cult and let this person down.
42:59
Speaker 6: So we should be having more images of Carlton or
43:01
Speaker 6: the higher rearchy of Carlton rather than the high rarch
43:03
Speaker 6: of this young man who's going to health image all right,
43:06
Speaker 6: because now he's seeing himself on the front page of
43:08
Speaker 6: the Herald Sun, all right, pharto of himself mental health issue.
43:11
Speaker 6: That's you know, I feel sorry for the young man.
43:13
Speaker 6: His image shouldn't be on the front page, all right,
43:15
Speaker 6: Let's look after him. Put the image of the Carlton
43:19
Speaker 6: hierarchy on the front page, not him. So it's just
43:22
Speaker 6: those little things that and I understand we say about
43:24
Speaker 6: the media. It's those things in the media that we
43:26
Speaker 6: can be a bit more careful of and a bit
43:29
Speaker 6: more considerate of.
43:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, if the hierarchy doesn't pander to the media
43:34
Speaker 2: as they do. I'm not wanting to comment about your
43:36
Speaker 2: bosses and that, but I think I mean, I'll look
43:37
Speaker 2: at this Ben Robert Smith prosecution, and he may well
43:40
Speaker 2: be guilty. But the way that the AFP hierarchy has
43:44
Speaker 2: pandered to the media has really brought out the silent
43:48
Speaker 2: majority of people saying this doesn't look right. Why is
43:51
Speaker 2: he arrested at the airport with his kids nearby? And
43:55
Speaker 2: why is there an AFP cameraman providing footage of that
43:57
Speaker 2: and giving it to the media. Is this about humiliation
44:00
Speaker 2: and pre judgment rather than justice.
44:03
Speaker 6: Yeah, there are things that play behind the scenes obviously
44:07
Speaker 6: in that regard, because, yeah, you're right, he would have
44:08
Speaker 6: walked into any police station and given himself up Patty
44:12
Speaker 6: had the opportunity, I'm sure, But to do it at
44:14
Speaker 6: the Yeah, to do it in such a public situation
44:17
Speaker 6: was very detrimental to what we think in a community
44:21
Speaker 6: as being right.
44:22
Speaker 1: You know, that just didn't seem right.
44:24
Speaker 2: And also turning the officers who did the arrest into
44:27
Speaker 2: players in a bit of a circus a pageant, which
44:30
Speaker 2: is all about building. And I'll probably never get interviews
44:32
Speaker 2: with the AFP, but we don't now anyway, because I
44:35
Speaker 2: don't cowtow to their media rules and their favoritism. But
44:38
Speaker 2: you know, it's actually building a jurisdiction rather than executing justice.
44:44
Speaker 6: Yeah, and if it was to be a proper formal arrest,
44:47
Speaker 6: he would have been handcuffed to the back as well,
44:49
Speaker 6: and he wasn't hairc.
44:49
Speaker 1: If he just walked out of that plane. Good point.
44:51
Speaker 6: Yeah, there was a lot of things that went on there.
44:53
Speaker 6: I was like, what the hell's going on here?
44:55
Speaker 4: You know, what is going on here?
44:56
Speaker 1: What is going on?
44:57
Speaker 6: And that as a community is a society, these are
45:00
Speaker 6: the questions that we shouldn't really be asking. The judicial
45:03
Speaker 6: process should run its natural course, not in the way
45:05
Speaker 6: that's in front of the cameras or the papers.
45:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you think of the investigators who are going
45:10
Speaker 2: to have to build that brief. Right, they've had a
45:12
Speaker 2: civil case which everyone says, oh, he's guilty, he's guilty.
45:15
Speaker 2: Twenty one people have said given evidence, most of them
45:18
Speaker 2: subpoenaed by the way, they weren't willing witnesses, and he
45:21
Speaker 2: was found against in the civil action here he is
45:24
Speaker 2: now in the criminal sphere beyond reasonable doubt, not balance probabilities,
45:28
Speaker 2: with no crime scene, no forensics, no autopsy, all eye
45:33
Speaker 2: witness testimony is new as a policeman know that eyewitness
45:36
Speaker 2: testimonies are the weakest evidence of all, and everyone saying, well,
45:39
Speaker 2: why do we even need a trial?
45:40
Speaker 4: You know? And I think it just turns.
45:42
Speaker 2: The police in that situation, investigators into pawns and the
45:46
Speaker 2: pressure goes on them, which I think is part of
45:49
Speaker 2: the stress for the officers.
45:51
Speaker 6: Yeah, a tremendous amount of pressure is going to be
45:53
Speaker 6: faced on those investigations. I wouldn't want to be in
45:55
Speaker 6: their shoes. But although the best that they can clearly
45:57
Speaker 6: with what they've got. But yeah, let's just see how
46:00
Speaker 6: that plays out. Yeah, exactly, don't comment. I can comment.
46:03
Speaker 2: I'm free to because I just think it is this
46:05
Speaker 2: in the public interest. They're going to spend fifty million,
46:08
Speaker 2: hundred million dollars on something which I think in many
46:10
Speaker 2: if it wasn't a high profile person the DPP might say,
46:14
Speaker 2: you know what, this is going to be too difficult
46:16
Speaker 2: and the public interest in needs. He's not in pursuing
46:18
Speaker 2: something that has a low chance of success. And I
46:21
Speaker 2: think again, you know whenever, and this is we started
46:24
Speaker 2: off fing a convicts of interest, I think, where police
46:26
Speaker 2: get involved in politics on the day to day. And
46:29
Speaker 2: we've seen this in Victoria, by the way. We've seen
46:31
Speaker 2: it when there's a famous moment when Premier Brumby pinned
46:35
Speaker 2: the epaulets on Simon Overland as the next Chief Commissioner
46:39
Speaker 2: and we all went, that doesn't look right. The appointment
46:42
Speaker 2: of the Chief Commissioner as an executive in council appointment,
46:45
Speaker 2: not the premier. He's not working for the premier. And
46:47
Speaker 2: I think increasingly and we saw your previous boss. I
46:50
Speaker 2: think kid his marching orders because he didn't march to
46:54
Speaker 2: the tune of the government, and I think that was
46:57
Speaker 2: an egregious outrage.
46:59
Speaker 6: Actually, yeah, there's I won't comment too much on that,
47:02
Speaker 6: please do just to say that I think Mike Bush
47:04
Speaker 6: is doing a let's.
47:06
Speaker 4: Stick with that.
47:07
Speaker 2: But I think this is the environment that you're stepping
47:10
Speaker 2: into again where policing is heavily politicized and we use
47:16
Speaker 2: the public want to see representatives who take the politics out.
47:19
Speaker 4: Of it and give us justice.
47:21
Speaker 2: And explain to us why you've got young people running
47:25
Speaker 2: around with machetes and stealing cars and things and everyone
47:28
Speaker 2: telling us, oh, well, the crime rate's quite acceptable, and
47:30
Speaker 2: it's clearly not. So I do wish you well, but
47:34
Speaker 2: I guess you're going to have to have a very
47:35
Speaker 2: clear goal set about what you can achieve and what's
47:38
Speaker 2: going to be beyond your capacity.
47:40
Speaker 1: Yeah.
47:40
Speaker 6: I've got a very realistic outlook as to what we
47:43
Speaker 6: can do and what we can't do. Having been in
47:45
Speaker 6: Parliament before, I know where my parameters, where my limitations are,
47:49
Speaker 6: and where my best chances and best opportunities are as well.
47:52
Speaker 6: So I'll be going with those. Yeah, thousand percent should
47:56
Speaker 6: be be elected, that's for sure. Different set of eyes
47:58
Speaker 6: this time. My eyes are fully open. Yeah, I'm just there,
48:01
Speaker 6: like I said at the end of the day, to
48:02
Speaker 6: support the frontline workers.
48:04
Speaker 4: Okay, so if you don't get up, you go.
48:06
Speaker 1: Back to you.
48:08
Speaker 6: If I don't get up or were doing exactly what
48:10
Speaker 6: I'm doing, I did yesterday and that's back at at
48:13
Speaker 6: OST doing the training. They're instructing, which I'm quite happy
48:16
Speaker 6: to do. I love instructing, I love teaching. Love making
48:19
Speaker 6: sure that you know our members on the front line
48:21
Speaker 6: and members in Victoria Police have the best training available
48:24
Speaker 6: to them and so they can hit the streets knowing
48:25
Speaker 6: that they're going to be keeping themselves safe and keep
48:28
Speaker 6: the community safe as well.
48:29
Speaker 4: Okay, good, thanks for your time today. Tell the listeners
48:32
Speaker 4: how they can get involved.
48:34
Speaker 1: Frontline Workers parties.
48:35
Speaker 6: So if you head to Frontline Workers dot au all
48:38
Speaker 6: my information is there about our policies and myself as well,
48:41
Speaker 6: and also how to join. Joining us free costume nothing.
48:44
Speaker 6: We just need names to be registered with the VC.
48:47
Speaker 6: So the more names you have, more members we have,
48:48
Speaker 6: the more chairs we've got to being registered with the
48:50
Speaker 6: Victorian Electoral Commission. And if we are registered then we
48:53
Speaker 6: can stand candidates and hopefully get into parliament.
48:56
Speaker 4: Good well, I wish you well.
48:58
Speaker 2: I mean I made this is the only exception I'll
49:00
Speaker 2: ever make about putting politics on this podcast, because this
49:03
Speaker 2: is a frontline police officer who's already serving the community
49:07
Speaker 2: and for his sins wants to serve it even further.
49:09
Speaker 4: So thanks few times as Stewart.
49:10
Speaker 2: Thanks Adam that's Victorian police officer turned politician Stuart Grimly.
49:18
Speaker 2: If you want more information about his Frontline Workers party,
49:22
Speaker 2: you can find a link in the show notes.
49:24
Speaker 4: As always, if you want to.
49:25
Speaker 2: Report a crime, please call Crime Stoppers on one eight
49:28
Speaker 2: hundred triple three, triple zero.
49:30
Speaker 4: Well, you can always.
49:31
Speaker 2: Email me on Adam Shanned writer at gmail dot com.
49:35
Speaker 4: This has been Adam Shann for Real Crime.
49:37
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, Thanks for listening to this episode and
49:53
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49:54
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49:57
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49:59
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50:01
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50:05
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50:08
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50:11
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50:13
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