Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #453 How to Talk About Ukraine

Transcript

#453 How to Talk About Ukraine · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the.
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  Speaker 2: Time poor parent who just wants answers.
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  Speaker 1: Now saying to our kids it's going to be okay,
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  Speaker 1: it doesn't actually reassure them because we don't know, and
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  Speaker 1: they know that we don't know. They know that we
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  Speaker 1: can't know.
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  Speaker 2: And now here's the stars of our show.
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  Speaker 1: My mum and dad. Right now, around the world and
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  Speaker 1: particularly here in Australia, we're a long long way away
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  Speaker 1: from a conflict that has escalated in a horrible, horrible way,
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  Speaker 1: but families and children in particular are concerned about what's
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  Speaker 1: happening between Russia and Ukraine. Today's podcast is aimed at
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  Speaker 1: helping you if your children have questions, or even if
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  Speaker 1: you have questions about how to respond, how to deal with,
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  Speaker 1: how to help to navigate this challenging situation.
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  Speaker 3: Today.
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  Speaker 1: This is doctor Justin Coulson. I'm the founder of Happy
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  Speaker 1: Families dot com dot au. Kylie is my wife and
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  Speaker 1: mum to our six kids, and she he's joining me
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  Speaker 1: for this conversation. It's everywhere, isn't it. The Russia Ukraine conflict,
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  Speaker 1: the war that is escalating, and it's really concerning.
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  Speaker 2: It's interesting as a husband and wife, we have made
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  Speaker 2: a really conscious decision to keep the news out of
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  Speaker 2: our laund room. We don't even have the TV in
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  Speaker 2: our living space. It's downstairs in its own little pocket,
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  Speaker 2: and so I think that this has been a really
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  Speaker 2: important decision that we've made to help our children feel
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  Speaker 2: safe and secure in the life that we choose to live.
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  Speaker 2: Some would say that we're sheltering them and that we're
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  Speaker 2: actually creating naivety in some regards, but when you look
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  Speaker 2: at all of the things that we have no control over,
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  Speaker 2: this is one thing we can do on a daily
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  Speaker 2: basis to help our children feel calm, peaceful, and secure
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  Speaker 2: in the environment that they're in.
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  Speaker 1: So.
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  Speaker 2: I don't actually know a lot about this story or
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  Speaker 2: what's going on. I'm obviously aware that there is a
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  Speaker 2: significant conflict happening between two countries, but other than that,
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  Speaker 2: this is something that I've kind of stayed clear of.
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  Speaker 2: So can you just explain what's really going on.
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  Speaker 1: Before I do that? I just want to address the
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  Speaker 1: question of switching off my advice. Consistently over the last
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  Speaker 1: ten to fifteen years, while I've been doing the work
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  Speaker 1: that I do has been keep your kids away from
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  Speaker 1: the news. I don't think that there's any strong argument
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  Speaker 1: to be made that it is in our children's best
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  Speaker 1: interest right now to be worried about a war on
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  Speaker 1: the other side of the world. Is it concerning, Yes,
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  Speaker 1: Should we have empathy and do everything we can to
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  Speaker 1: donate or to be useful in some way, Yeah, absolutely,
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  Speaker 1: of course. But in terms of raising our children's anxiety levels,
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  Speaker 1: especially after the last couple of years that they've had,
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  Speaker 1: they don't need the extra stress. They don't need the
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  Speaker 1: extra pressure of worrying about what might happen next. Research
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  Speaker 1: tells us really clearly that children need a predictable, secure,
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  Speaker 1: life so that they can explore the world and respond
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  Speaker 1: with activity and enthusiasm and optimism about what's coming. That's
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  Speaker 1: what they need. Is it always true? Not necessarily. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: sometimes the world can be a dangerous, scary, horrible place,
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  Speaker 1: but our kids need to believe that it's those things
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  Speaker 1: not dangerous, a scary, safe and secure and predictable so
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  Speaker 1: that they will explore, grow and and branch out. So
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  Speaker 1: that's what I just want to highlight there. But as
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  Speaker 1: you said, little is here things and big ears with
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  Speaker 1: the big years and big eyes they're on TikTok now
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  Speaker 1: and they're on Instagram and they're seeing stuff that's coming well,
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  Speaker 1: they have.
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  Speaker 2: Access to you know, it's not just the news now,
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  Speaker 2: it's not the news being on in the living room.
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  Speaker 2: They've literally got access to information twenty four to seven
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  Speaker 2: at their fingertips in their bedrooms.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the stuff that they're seeing is pretty potentially graphic.
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  Speaker 1: Some of the things that are coming up on social media.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, it won't be your typical news, no worthy report.
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  Speaker 1: No people are dying, people are being shot, there is bombing.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, this is the sort of stuff that can
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  Speaker 1: really undermine your faith in humanity. And you believe that
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  Speaker 1: the world is safe, and our kids need to believe
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  Speaker 1: that humans are worth having faith in and that the
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  Speaker 1: world is actually safe. So you asked the question, what's
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  Speaker 1: actually going on? Guess what? For the most part, and
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  Speaker 1: please forgive my ignorance of my navity, but I've got
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  Speaker 1: a psychology background. I've done eight and a half years
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  Speaker 1: nine years of study at university to get good at psychology,
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  Speaker 1: and I never actually took any subjects at all across
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  Speaker 1: my nine years of tertiary education. That helped me to
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  Speaker 1: understand Eastern European geopolitics. I know very little about the
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  Speaker 1: fall of the USSR. I know very very little about
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  Speaker 1: Ukraine's desires to be part of the West rather than
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  Speaker 1: part of Russia. And I really don't understand why Putin
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  Speaker 1: has invaded and decided that he wants Ukraine to be
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  Speaker 1: part of Russia. Those things are beyond my knowledge. And
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  Speaker 1: i'd say, and I hope that.
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  Speaker 2: It's always about power, Well, well.
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  Speaker 1: Sure it is, But ultimately I reckon that most Australian
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  Speaker 1: parents are in the same boat. Unless you're from the region,
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  Speaker 1: unless you've got family or friends there, or unless you've
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  Speaker 1: studied it specifically. You've probably picked up a few bits
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  Speaker 1: and pieces from being online and decided there's a war
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  Speaker 1: going on. I wonder what's going on here. Maybe you've
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  Speaker 1: read a couple of articles, so you'll have a rudimentary knowledge,
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  Speaker 1: But the reality is most of us don't really know.
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  Speaker 1: So when the kids come to us and say why
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  Speaker 1: is this happening, it can be hard to just dive
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  Speaker 1: in and say, well, let me tell you everything that
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  Speaker 1: I know. And you know what, I don't think that's
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  Speaker 1: what the kids actually want. They do want some facts,
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  Speaker 1: but I think that they're asking for some other reasons.
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  Speaker 2: So what facts would you suggest that we share with
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  Speaker 2: our kids?
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  Speaker 1: The basic ones, like literally, there is a war going on,
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  Speaker 1: Russia has invaded Ukraine. Ukraine is a free, independent democracy,
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  Speaker 1: Russia is not Russia is not that kind of place
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  Speaker 1: at all. And because that's happened, there's forty four million
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  Speaker 1: people who are now scared for their lives and for
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  Speaker 1: their freedom.
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  Speaker 2: So I guess you know, when a child coming to
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  Speaker 2: us and asking us these kinds of questions, knowing how
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  Speaker 2: children work, more times than not, there's going to be
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  Speaker 2: a lot of wise right, right? Why is this happening?
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  Speaker 2: Is it going to get worse? Are there going to
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  Speaker 2: be more countries involved? Will it ever reach Australia?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah? And the correct answer to that, and this is
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  Speaker 1: certainly the answer that I'll be giving our kids is
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  Speaker 1: I don't know. Often as parents we feel like we
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  Speaker 1: have to have all of the answers and we have
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  Speaker 1: to fix everything, but that's not helpful. The reality is
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  Speaker 1: we've got no control over what's going on. And again,
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  Speaker 1: for the most of us, I mean until last week,
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  Speaker 1: how many of us really even knew where Ukraine was,
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  Speaker 1: knew that it bordered Russia knew where about This is
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  Speaker 1: all new information for many many Australian parents. Again, some
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  Speaker 1: people will know a heck of a lot. Most of us, though,
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  Speaker 1: we don't know that much about it. So I think,
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  Speaker 1: I think the kids need to know this. There's this
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  Speaker 1: war that Russia has invaded, that people will be hurt,
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  Speaker 1: that they'll be killed, that families we've broken up, that
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  Speaker 1: it's a devastating tragedy. And then we let them know
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  Speaker 1: that they're safe, We're here for them, and that's where
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  Speaker 1: we stop. We hug them, we let them know that
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  Speaker 1: we love them, and we don't try to fix it.
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  Speaker 1: We don't promise, we don't do anything except say I'm here.
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  Speaker 1: It's really sad, isn't it. And I know that some
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  Speaker 1: people are going to be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that's that's great, But that's not really enough. After the break,
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you exactly why. That's all we
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  Speaker 1: need to do. It's the Happy Families Podcast.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: of Disciplined as a webinar to help parents set limits
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: with love compassion and humanity. Find it now at happy
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  Speaker 3: families dot com dot au slash shop.
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  Speaker 2: It's a Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
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  Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers. Now, why shouldn't we
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  Speaker 2: be telling our kids that everything's going to be okay?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I don't want to sound like I'm pessimistic. I
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  Speaker 1: don't know what's going to happen. But the reality is
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  Speaker 1: nobody knows what's going to happen. And so if we
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  Speaker 1: say it's going to be okay and it's not, we
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  Speaker 1: look foolish. We look like we have over promised and underdelivered.
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  Speaker 1: I think as well, though it doesn't actually offer reassurance, Like,
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  Speaker 1: let me choose another topic that's really really hard to fathom.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, I'll give a couple of examples. Maybe you've
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  Speaker 1: just found out that you've got an aging parent or
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  Speaker 1: relative or a loved one who has an incurable disease
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  Speaker 1: and you've just gotten some bad news. Or when you
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  Speaker 1: think about the recent rains that have hit the East
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  Speaker 1: coast so heavily, Brisbane, northern New South Wales and so on,
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  Speaker 1: and there's this fear that the rains are going to
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  Speaker 1: inundate the house and flood the suburb. When that's happening,
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  Speaker 1: when you're terrified that things are going to work out badly,
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  Speaker 1: and somebody sits beside you and says, don't worry about it,
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  Speaker 1: it's going to be okay. I'm sure everything's going to
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  Speaker 1: be just fine. Do you actually believe them? Does it
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  Speaker 1: make you feel comforted when they're saying it's going to
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  Speaker 1: be okay, when you know in your mind and in
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  Speaker 1: your heart that there's no idea, no one's got any
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  Speaker 1: idea whether it's going to be okay, usually.
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  Speaker 2: Just makes me feel like they don't actually understand how
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  Speaker 2: I'm feeling.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it actually feels dismissive. And the great irony is
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  Speaker 1: that the person who's saying it, whether it's you as
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  Speaker 1: a parent saying it to your kids, or whether it's
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  Speaker 1: a good friend or loved one saying it to you
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  Speaker 1: about what you're afraid of, the intention there is so good.
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  Speaker 1: It's meant to be reassuring, it's meant be kind, is
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  Speaker 1: meant to be helpful, It's going to be okay. Don't
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  Speaker 1: worry about a thing. We've got this, and in your
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  Speaker 1: heart you're going But I'm terrified, and i am worried,
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  Speaker 1: and how do you know that we've got this Somebody
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  Speaker 1: may die here, or we may get flooded or insert
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  Speaker 1: your preferred tragedy based on the news of the day.
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  Speaker 1: So when it comes to whether it's floods, whether it
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  Speaker 1: comes to the war between Russia and Ukraine, saying to
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  Speaker 1: our kids it's going to be okay, it doesn't actually
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  Speaker 1: reassure them because we don't know, and they know that
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  Speaker 1: we don't know. They know that we can't know.
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  Speaker 2: So what do you actually do when you've got a
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  Speaker 2: real worrier, when you've had those conversations with them, Let
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  Speaker 2: them know that you don't have all the answers, that
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  Speaker 2: you can't promise that it's going to be okay, but
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  Speaker 2: that you're there for them. And that's not enough. These
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  Speaker 2: little worriers, they just ruminate over the information that they
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  Speaker 2: have and it just builds up into this big black
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  Speaker 2: monster inside their heads.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, what an important question, Kylie. I think there's a
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  Speaker 1: handful of things that we can do. The first is
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  Speaker 1: to recognize that some and talk to the kids about this.
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  Speaker 1: There are some things that you worry about that you
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  Speaker 1: just can't fix. So a war on the other side
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  Speaker 1: of the world is one of those things, and worrying
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  Speaker 1: about it doesn't make any difference. But there are certain
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  Speaker 1: things that you can do. You can watch the news
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  Speaker 1: and get the good news stories. Look at the people
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  Speaker 1: who are being brave. I loved that incredible story about
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  Speaker 1: the Russian tennis player, who I mean, talk about risking
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  Speaker 1: your life. Talk about somebody with moral conviction and courage,
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  Speaker 1: somebody who's done something that I'm going to say is
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  Speaker 1: absolutely incredible. Arkable Russian tennis player. His name is Andre
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  Speaker 1: Rublev and at the end of a recent tennis match,
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  Speaker 1: he walked up to the camera and he said, no
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  Speaker 1: war please. He actually wrote no war please on the
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  Speaker 1: camera with one of those texts that they write on
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  Speaker 1: the camera with. I mean, this guy's Russian. I reckon,
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  Speaker 1: I reckon. That's a brave thing to do. There are
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  Speaker 1: some people in Russia who may now have horrible motives
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  Speaker 1: for him. What a brave thing to do. Look for
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  Speaker 1: the good news, look for the good people.
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  Speaker 2: I reckon.
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  Speaker 1: There's a lot of Russians that don't like this, and
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  Speaker 1: there's a lot of Ukrainians who are being brave beyond words.
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  Speaker 1: And when you share that stuff with your worrying kids.
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  Speaker 1: They see that there is nuance and there are people
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  Speaker 1: who are trying to help. Fred Rodgers used to say,
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  Speaker 1: look for the helpers, and I think that's great news.
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  Speaker 1: The other thing, though, is talk to you kids about
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  Speaker 1: what you can control and what you can't. So there
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  Speaker 1: are things that are going on here that they can control,
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  Speaker 1: like whether they're exercising, whether they're sleeping, whether they're communicating,
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  Speaker 1: whether there with their friends, whether they're doing the things
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  Speaker 1: that they know lean into a lead to well being,
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  Speaker 1: and there are things that don't. So it's about controlling
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  Speaker 1: what you can control and having strategies to work through
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  Speaker 1: things when there is stuff going on that you can't control.
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  Speaker 1: We've got an entire webinar in the Happy Family's Shop
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  Speaker 1: all about anxiety and how parents can help their kids
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  Speaker 1: to navigate that. And we could talk about this conversation
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  Speaker 1: for a very very long time, but there's just a
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  Speaker 1: couple of short ideas that might be helpful.
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  Speaker 2: So if we were to recap this conversation, what would
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  Speaker 2: be your top three tips for parents?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, number one, to the extent that you can keep
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  Speaker 1: the kids away from this news, it's not helpful. It
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  Speaker 1: won't be helpful to them. At all if they're exposed
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  Speaker 1: to it. Number two, give them what facts you know, briefly,
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  Speaker 1: recognizing that they're probably not after too many facts, they're
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  Speaker 1: probably after some level of reassurance and understanding. And so
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  Speaker 1: therefore number three is don't try to fix it, because
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  Speaker 1: you can't. It's out of your control. But instead be
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  Speaker 1: with them and just let them know you know it's hard,
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  Speaker 1: and that you're there and that you love them and
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  Speaker 1: you'll do everything you can to keep them safe. Those
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  Speaker 1: three things are probably the three most important things that
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  Speaker 1: we can do as families, as parents to help our
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: kids feel safe in these conditions. And just quickly, two
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: big interviews over the next couple of days with more
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: really important stuff to help your family to function better.
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  Speaker 1: First off, tomorrow Australia's e Safety Commissioner Julie Inman Grant
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: talking to us about keeping our kids safe online. And
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: then on Thursday, the conversation that every parent needs to
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  Speaker 1: hear about vaccinating kids aged five to eleven. We're going
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: to have a conversation with Professor McMillan from the federal
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: government's Department of Health, and I'm going to ask the
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: hard questions about why or why not this vaccine does
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  Speaker 1: or doesn't matter for our kids. I really hope that
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  Speaker 1: this has been a helpful conversation. The Happy Famili's podcast
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  Speaker 1: is produced and put together by Justin Rowlin from Bridge
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Media and Craig Bruce, our executive producer. As always, if
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: you'd like more info about making your family happier, you
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: can get it at happy families dot com that I