Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / PRETTY MOODY: How To Harness Our Moods + Use Them To Our Benefit with Author and Instagram Phenom Lauren Martin

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PRETTY MOODY: How To Harness Our Moods + Use Them To Our Benefit with Author and Instagram Phenom Lauren Martin · QUESTION EVERYTHING

0:00
Speaker 1: The following podcast is a Dear media production.
0:06
Speaker 2: Big Things Happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
0:10
Speaker 2: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robey, and each week my guests
0:14
Speaker 2: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
0:19
Speaker 2: This is pretty smart. Have you ever had this feeling
0:23
Speaker 2: that something just isn't right. Everything's fine, it's all fine,
0:28
Speaker 2: but you're just not happy. It's called a mood. Technically,
0:33
Speaker 2: a mood is an emotion that lasts longer than a minute.
0:36
Speaker 2: We all have them, stress, anxiety, that feeling of being unfulfilled, disjointed,
0:42
Speaker 2: or it can even be an unforeseen circumstance, like an
0:45
Speaker 2: airport meltdown. What is it about the airport? The idea
0:49
Speaker 2: of being moody always had a negative connotation in my mind,
0:53
Speaker 2: and moody is definitely an adjective we use more often
0:56
Speaker 2: with women. Stevie Nick said, moods are a part of
1:00
Speaker 2: being a woman. That's kind of what I thought until
1:02
Speaker 2: I met Lauren Martin, the founder of the popular Instagram
1:05
Speaker 2: account Words of Women and author of the Book of Moods.
1:09
Speaker 2: She has a whole different idea. She says, moods don't
1:12
Speaker 2: have to be negative. We can actually harness them and
1:15
Speaker 2: use them to our benefit. We just have to know
1:18
Speaker 2: how to do it. And today she's going to share
1:20
Speaker 2: how through her own story of figuring it out. And
1:24
Speaker 2: it all starts at a bar in New York City.
1:27
Speaker 2: So I want to know how you came up with
1:28
Speaker 2: the words of women identity, because I know you had
1:31
Speaker 2: a very interesting path towards creating the Instagram account.
1:35
Speaker 3: Moved to New York, knew I wanted to be a
1:37
Speaker 3: writer really hard. To get a writing job, like the
1:40
Speaker 3: devilwaar is brought as bullshit, like you don't just like
1:42
Speaker 3: walk into.
1:42
Speaker 1: Vogue and like get a job.
1:44
Speaker 2: You don't.
1:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, fortunately not and maybe if you're Anne Hathaway.
1:50
Speaker 3: But basically I got a job ring like fart jokes
1:53
Speaker 3: at a kid's magazine and it was an unpaid internship
1:56
Speaker 3: and I just enough money to last me like a month.
1:58
Speaker 1: After the month, I was like, right.
2:00
Speaker 3: I guess I'm not to be a waitress and like
2:01
Speaker 3: figure it out. Later met a guy in a coffee
2:05
Speaker 3: shop who started a website who was going to who
2:07
Speaker 3: offered like new writers, like four hundred dollars a week
2:09
Speaker 3: to write, so I was like, okay, perfect. So I
2:12
Speaker 3: just started, and that's where a lot of those articles
2:13
Speaker 3: you were referencing also came from. So I was there
2:15
Speaker 3: for three years, was writing like four articles a day.
2:19
Speaker 3: I think I wrote over a thousand articles. Well, and
2:22
Speaker 3: it was so much, but it was such good practice.
2:24
Speaker 3: And I think when you're young and you're hunger, you
2:26
Speaker 3: have the energy to do that.
2:27
Speaker 2: And now I could never do you look back at
2:29
Speaker 2: some of those and think, eek, those live online forever.
2:33
Speaker 3: Yes, but that comes with the territory, like it's impossible
2:36
Speaker 3: to be a creative and it's impossible to even try
2:39
Speaker 3: and achieve any success without having mistakes and without having
2:43
Speaker 3: you know, things in the past.
2:44
Speaker 1: It is what it is like. You try and you
2:45
Speaker 1: fail and you grow. So was there three years, and
2:49
Speaker 1: I was sobern out. I was like, oh my god,
2:51
Speaker 1: I can't write these anymore. This is just like exhausting.
2:53
Speaker 3: And half the time I wasn't even writing what I
2:55
Speaker 3: wanted to write, and so I quit and I was like,
2:59
Speaker 3: I want to write a book and it's gonna be
3:02
Speaker 3: about women, and I don't know exactly what. So then
3:05
Speaker 3: at the same time, I was having like a really
3:07
Speaker 3: hard time. I was like in New York I had
3:09
Speaker 3: a boyfriend, I you know, had a good writing job.
3:13
Speaker 3: We like sold the website, so I had so legitimacy,
3:16
Speaker 3: but I was so miserable.
3:17
Speaker 1: I was like not.
3:19
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm living the life I wanted to
3:21
Speaker 3: live and I'm not appreciating it or experiencing it. And
3:24
Speaker 3: I met this girl in this bar and she just
3:27
Speaker 3: was like I don't know if you've ever met someone,
3:29
Speaker 3: and they had like an aura and they had like
3:30
Speaker 3: this charm and like I wanted to be her friend
3:32
Speaker 3: and her daughter and like her sister at the same time.
3:35
Speaker 3: And she kind of told me, like, I think you
3:38
Speaker 3: have like moods.
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Speaker 1: Like what I have. And it was like this.
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Speaker 3: Like like this feeling that like someone else felt the
3:45
Speaker 3: same way as me for the first time, and also
3:48
Speaker 3: this idea that like, okay, like I can solve this
3:51
Speaker 3: problem and maybe if I can like dive into this,
3:53
Speaker 3: I can figure myself out. So then I kind of
3:55
Speaker 3: started wards a women just as like a holding place.
3:58
Speaker 3: Like I was like, I felt so much better when
4:00
Speaker 3: this girl told me this. How many other women are
4:02
Speaker 3: going to feel better when I share with them things
4:05
Speaker 3: that I'm like reading about other women.
4:07
Speaker 1: So quotes were.
4:07
Speaker 3: Kind of like this life raft that I would just
4:09
Speaker 3: like if I was feeling sad, I.
4:11
Speaker 1: Would like Google.
4:12
Speaker 3: It started with Google, and then it became like reading
4:14
Speaker 3: everything I was reading, and I would just pull out
4:16
Speaker 3: lines that like hit me because I love to read
4:18
Speaker 3: and would just post them. And I think women started
4:22
Speaker 3: really resonating with it really quickly because Instagram it just
4:25
Speaker 3: makes you feel so bad so much of the time,
4:27
Speaker 3: like it's like hot model, hot model, hot model friends
4:31
Speaker 3: hanging out without me, my ex like.
4:34
Speaker 1: It's just like okay.
4:35
Speaker 3: But then it's like a quote that kind of like
4:36
Speaker 3: brings you like back to yourself and like brings you
4:38
Speaker 3: back down to earth, and it's just and that's kind.
4:42
Speaker 1: Of how it started.
4:43
Speaker 3: And then an agent came to me and was like,
4:45
Speaker 3: oh my god, we love this thing that you've felt like.
4:47
Speaker 3: We would love for you to like write a book.
4:49
Speaker 3: Do you have any ideas.
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Speaker 2: I was like, yes, yes, I'm moody as I.
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Speaker 1: Exactly.
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Speaker 3: So I kind of like took all the like research
4:58
Speaker 3: I was doing the last four years and like all
4:59
Speaker 3: the quotes and kind of just like took another two
5:02
Speaker 3: and a half years and kind of finished up the
5:04
Speaker 3: book and.
5:05
Speaker 1: Here we are.
5:05
Speaker 2: I want to get into your book because I love
5:08
Speaker 2: the title, the Book of Moods. I'm wondering what is
5:11
Speaker 2: the word mood can note to you?
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Speaker 3: To me, it is it's very Etherol and it's like
5:18
Speaker 3: it says, how I turn my worst emotions into my
5:20
Speaker 3: best life. But I find moods are are different than emotions.
5:25
Speaker 3: Moods and I explain it in the book. It's like
5:28
Speaker 3: you have an emotional reaction to something, and a mood
5:31
Speaker 3: is that persistent feeling that lingers after. It's like there's
5:36
Speaker 3: always something that triggers a mood, and that a mood
5:38
Speaker 3: is just to me, that feeling that won't go away.
5:41
Speaker 3: It's almost like a stension the air, Like it's like
5:43
Speaker 3: something that just it's changed us from our normal setting
5:47
Speaker 3: into a different It's almost like a tiny little micro
5:50
Speaker 3: shift in our personality, as if we had all these
5:53
Speaker 3: different people we could be, we like transform into this
5:55
Speaker 3: different We're like constantly morphing.
5:57
Speaker 2: When I think about moods, I thought about emotion geez.
6:01
Speaker 2: I feel like that has right, Like the creation of
6:04
Speaker 2: emojis has kind of I think made people aware of
6:08
Speaker 2: their moods more in a strange way.
6:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like what can personify this feeling I'm trying
6:13
Speaker 3: to give.
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Speaker 2: Why does it have like this negative connotation for women.
6:17
Speaker 3: I think because it's always used in a negative way,
6:22
Speaker 3: as in, you are in a bad mood, so you
6:25
Speaker 3: are doing something I don't like, You're being some way
6:27
Speaker 3: I don't like, and we always obviously associate it with PMS.
6:31
Speaker 2: Right, Like I think that the idea that we fluctuate
6:34
Speaker 2: in mood, it feels negative for some reason.
6:37
Speaker 3: Yes, Well, what happened was the real like trigger of
6:40
Speaker 3: this whole book was I moved in with my boyfriend
6:42
Speaker 3: and he men have moods and I've seen it, but
6:45
Speaker 3: he does not fluctuate the same way I do. So
6:47
Speaker 3: like I can wake up and I'm just in a
6:49
Speaker 3: bad mood and it's not always bad mood. And that's
6:51
Speaker 3: why it's called the Book of Moods, because I think
6:53
Speaker 3: we need to learn to stop laving and labeling is
6:56
Speaker 3: just like bad and good.
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Speaker 1: Like when we.
6:58
Speaker 3: Understand the mood we're in, then we can understand it
7:00
Speaker 3: better and kind of like get out of it quicker.
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Speaker 1: So like I'll wake up and I'm just depleted.
7:06
Speaker 3: Or I'm like I'm negative, like there's something weighing on me,
7:09
Speaker 3: and so when I can like think and the book
7:11
Speaker 3: hopefully like I give you all these like stories. Each
7:14
Speaker 3: chapter is a different mood, which is kind of like
7:16
Speaker 3: a different circumstance I'm in when the mood hits me.
7:19
Speaker 3: And I just noticed, like my husband he never is
7:22
Speaker 3: like that, like he's always like this, and I feel
7:24
Speaker 3: like my life is more like this, like I don't
7:26
Speaker 3: know what the day is going to bring. There's a
7:29
Speaker 3: chance that I could like do something, and I talk
7:32
Speaker 3: about this a lot like that is where our power
7:34
Speaker 3: comes from.
7:34
Speaker 1: As women.
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Speaker 3: I feel like we were super empathetic because we understand
7:39
Speaker 3: low lows and we have high highs, but we're super
7:41
Speaker 3: understanding what other people are.
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Speaker 1: We can pick up on frequencies.
7:45
Speaker 3: I feel we're very attuned to the energy of others
7:48
Speaker 3: and in a way that also can affect our moods.
7:50
Speaker 3: So that was like a big premise of the book
7:53
Speaker 3: is that if you can understand yourself and your own moods,
7:56
Speaker 3: then you can like stop being so affected by other
7:58
Speaker 3: peoples and maybe.
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Speaker 1: Realize like their mood has nothing to do with you.
8:01
Speaker 3: Because I know with me, like if someone's in a
8:03
Speaker 3: bad mood around me, I always think it has something
8:05
Speaker 3: to do with me. But since you know writing this,
8:07
Speaker 3: I'm like everyone is like dealing with their own baggage
8:10
Speaker 3: all the time that it usually has nothing to do
8:12
Speaker 3: with you, and you usually can't really fix anyone else's mood.
8:15
Speaker 3: You can only try and like accept it and help them.
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Speaker 2: So how have you found your husband reacts or responds
8:23
Speaker 2: to your moods?
8:24
Speaker 3: So it used to be really bad because I didn't
8:27
Speaker 3: understand it. I would just come home from work pissed off,
8:30
Speaker 3: and like that's kind of how the book starts. Like
8:32
Speaker 3: we had this huge fight and he was like, I
8:34
Speaker 3: can't live like this. And it was the first time
8:37
Speaker 3: in my adult life I realized like I was the problem.
8:40
Speaker 3: Like usually I always thought I was super chill and
8:43
Speaker 3: super fun, and I was like, shit, like I might
8:47
Speaker 3: actually be the reason I can't sustain a relationship, Like
8:49
Speaker 3: this might be like an issue long term for me.
8:52
Speaker 3: So when I started really researching and diving into it,
8:56
Speaker 3: he was there and like I would talk to him
8:59
Speaker 3: about stuff. So, like one big mood for me is depletion.
9:02
Speaker 3: And that's like an actual psychological theory that states like
9:06
Speaker 3: willpower is finite. So like when you wake up in
9:08
Speaker 3: the morning, you're like, imagine yourselves like a battery, like
9:11
Speaker 3: you're fully charged. But throughout the day you do all
9:13
Speaker 3: these little acts of willpower like answering emails, cooking yourself
9:17
Speaker 3: food like and it completes you. And so what happens
9:20
Speaker 3: is when you get to the like your battery is
9:23
Speaker 3: basically done, you don't have the willpower to act certainly,
9:27
Speaker 3: so like when something small happens, you might freak out
9:29
Speaker 3: more and that's because you're depleted. So we've learned to
9:32
Speaker 3: do this thing, Like when I'm feeling depleted, I'm like,
9:33
Speaker 3: I'm depleted. I need to watch shitty TV and drink
9:38
Speaker 3: red wine and that like recharges me and refills me
9:41
Speaker 3: and then we can like move on from there.
9:43
Speaker 1: So it's it's definitely helped us.
9:44
Speaker 3: And he'll be like, I know you're depleted, or I
9:46
Speaker 3: know you're pmsing or I know this, So it's like
9:48
Speaker 3: help us establish boundaries and understand.
9:51
Speaker 1: It's nothing, it's not personal.
9:52
Speaker 2: It's just so it sounds like it's almost communicating where
9:55
Speaker 2: you're at instead of just being in the mood without.
9:59
Speaker 3: Telling you exactly. And I feel like he and I
10:01
Speaker 3: understand too. When he gets depleted. Like if you know,
10:04
Speaker 3: we spend the day with my parents and then we
10:06
Speaker 3: come home and have to go grocery shopping and he's
10:08
Speaker 3: actually snippy. I'm like, Okay, he's depleted. I'm going to
10:11
Speaker 3: go give him time to like play video games, and
10:13
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna like, I'm not going to take a
10:14
Speaker 3: sense to it, and I'm not going to pick a fight.
10:16
Speaker 3: Like you can understand where the mood's coming from. And
10:18
Speaker 3: it's helped our relationships so much because we both realize
10:21
Speaker 3: it's not personal and it's nothing to do with how
10:24
Speaker 3: the person is going to be all the time. It's
10:26
Speaker 3: just like they're depleted. They need to take a break,
10:28
Speaker 3: and I'm fine with that.
10:30
Speaker 2: How do you decide, Yeah, the bar of depletion, Like
10:33
Speaker 2: what if just grocery shopping depletes you. It's like embarrassing
10:36
Speaker 2: to admit.
10:36
Speaker 1: Right, it's so embarrassing.
10:38
Speaker 3: And my husband says, like, your depletion levels are really bad,
10:41
Speaker 3: Like you get completed so easily.
10:44
Speaker 2: And what do you attribute that.
10:46
Speaker 3: I'm also working on, Like I'm working on trying to
10:48
Speaker 3: be stronger, Like I'm working on ways and I talk
10:51
Speaker 3: about in the book, like there are ways that you
10:53
Speaker 3: can you can't always like bow out of things and
10:56
Speaker 3: be like, oh I need an hour, Like you can't
10:58
Speaker 3: do that. Like you might be with your like you
10:59
Speaker 3: know friends, you might be on a date and you're depleted,
11:02
Speaker 3: but you have to like work through the mood. And
11:04
Speaker 3: there's saying little things you can do. And I compare
11:07
Speaker 3: it to like working out, Like I love working out
11:09
Speaker 3: because I feel I like getting stronger, Like I like
11:12
Speaker 3: that idea that like today I'm weaker and it hurts,
11:15
Speaker 3: but tomorrow it'll be better.
11:16
Speaker 1: And that's how I feel. Like I get.
11:18
Speaker 3: Depleted, but I'm at least working on it and I'm
11:20
Speaker 3: going to make myself better.
11:22
Speaker 2: What are some of the little things you can do
11:23
Speaker 2: that you mentioned because I know you said, I want
11:25
Speaker 2: to read this quote. You transformed your mood, so I
11:29
Speaker 2: learned to not just handle it, but transform it, sail
11:31
Speaker 2: through it. A subtle mix between self help and personal
11:34
Speaker 2: narration that I can honestly say has changed my life.
11:37
Speaker 3: Yes, you made me I have like first off, is
11:41
Speaker 3: like saying no. I was so bad at saying no
11:43
Speaker 3: to things like and doing things you don't want to
11:46
Speaker 3: do is like the crux of depletions. So like I
11:48
Speaker 3: would schedule like two brunches a weekend, and like I
11:50
Speaker 3: would tell my parents, oh yeah, I'm going to see you,
11:53
Speaker 3: and then I just had to get better at saying
11:55
Speaker 3: no to things. Another big one is like building the
11:58
Speaker 3: rituals or like known do they actually do replenish you?
12:02
Speaker 3: So like carving out little things in the day that
12:04
Speaker 3: can like a New Yorker subscription for me, so I
12:06
Speaker 3: would get really depleted, like waiting for the subway all
12:08
Speaker 3: the time in New York. So it's like okay, instead
12:10
Speaker 3: of like standing here getting like worked up, I can
12:13
Speaker 3: like read the New Yorker and like find some like
12:15
Speaker 3: piece like eat the piece of chocolate, like treat yourself
12:18
Speaker 3: to something little. I find like using my lunch hour
12:22
Speaker 3: really helps. I used to never do that. Now I
12:24
Speaker 3: like have to dedicate like an hour every day, so
12:27
Speaker 3: like do what I want to do. My friend she
12:29
Speaker 3: used to go and get her nails done, like and
12:31
Speaker 3: I was always like this is so dumb. During like work,
12:33
Speaker 3: she would leave, but that was like her thing, like
12:35
Speaker 3: it helped her. Let's say remove excess choice. That's a
12:39
Speaker 3: big one. So choice is like a huge thing of
12:41
Speaker 3: like depletion. So like one reason my husband I would
12:43
Speaker 3: always fight is because like he'd be like, what do
12:45
Speaker 3: you want for dinner? Like what should we order for takeout?
12:47
Speaker 3: And I would always be like, I don't know what
12:48
Speaker 3: do you want? And neither of us I realized that
12:50
Speaker 3: we were fighting because neither of us wanted to like
12:52
Speaker 3: be in charge of that decision, because.
12:54
Speaker 2: Decision fatigue is why I don't want to get dressed
12:56
Speaker 2: in the morning exactly.
12:58
Speaker 3: So if you can like remove those this is interesting,
13:00
Speaker 3: be like, Okay, we like these three restaurants, they are
13:02
Speaker 3: always our grow to, like, let's just pick one of those.
13:06
Speaker 3: Same with like, if you're trying not to drink, I'm
13:08
Speaker 3: trying not to drink as much like during the week,
13:10
Speaker 3: So like if you have wine on the counter, it's
13:13
Speaker 3: so much harder to like not drink the wine.
13:16
Speaker 1: But if you if you hide.
13:18
Speaker 3: The wine and you hide all your alcohol, it's actually
13:20
Speaker 3: so much easier. So it's like tiny little things like
13:23
Speaker 3: that completely shift like how many decisions you have to
13:25
Speaker 3: make and how many acts of real power you need
13:27
Speaker 3: to do during the day.
13:29
Speaker 2: It sounds like in order to do this, you have
13:31
Speaker 2: to start to get to know yourself, because I can
13:33
Speaker 2: imagine starting to embark on this process could feel overwhelming
13:38
Speaker 2: depending on how well you know yourself.
13:40
Speaker 1: Or not exactly.
13:41
Speaker 3: And that's why I want the book to be. It's
13:43
Speaker 3: more like you're going through my journey. It's all like
13:45
Speaker 3: personal stories. But then I also it's lended it with
13:48
Speaker 3: a bunch of stories about like famous women, Like there's
13:52
Speaker 3: a story about like Elizabeth Taylor and like her ten
13:54
Speaker 3: million dollar ring, and like the reason behind that ring
13:56
Speaker 3: is actually very different than you would think. And even
13:59
Speaker 3: hearing that story, Mike change your idea of how you
14:01
Speaker 3: think about and see people.
14:03
Speaker 1: So I feel like, hopefully it's enjoyable.
14:05
Speaker 3: And you're not like stressed when you're reading it, like
14:07
Speaker 3: oh my god, I have to make all these changes.
14:09
Speaker 1: It's more like inspiring.
14:11
Speaker 3: And oh that was a nice little journey, and then
14:13
Speaker 3: certain things sticking in your minds that you start applying
14:16
Speaker 3: unconsciously later on.
14:18
Speaker 2: What's the correlation between moodiness versus being jaded?
14:22
Speaker 3: Okay, I think moodiness is a good thing. It means
14:25
Speaker 3: you're willing to feel a range of emotions and you're
14:28
Speaker 3: willing to kind of you're constantly shifting and changing and
14:31
Speaker 3: experiencing things, and jaded is kind of like I think
14:34
Speaker 3: it's constant irritability, which I have sometimes, definitely, and that's
14:40
Speaker 3: something you also need to like rewire yourself to work on.
14:43
Speaker 3: I think we get so jaded as we grow up.
14:45
Speaker 3: That's such a good question. I think being jaded, though,
14:48
Speaker 3: is the inability to like really let yourself feel something
14:50
Speaker 3: and understand why you're feeling it and then maybe stop
14:53
Speaker 3: feeling it. So when you're jaded, you're just kind of
14:55
Speaker 3: like irritable and annoyed, and that's it, Like that's just
14:58
Speaker 3: who you are.
15:00
Speaker 1: Moody.
15:00
Speaker 3: It's like moody women are always like super high highs
15:03
Speaker 3: and I think some low lows, but it's never like
15:06
Speaker 3: constant irritability.
15:08
Speaker 2: Does the moodiness go into negative self talk ever?
15:12
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, Have you had.
15:13
Speaker 2: To use mantras or like how do you navigate that?
15:16
Speaker 1: One hundred percent? And there's mantras in the book.
15:18
Speaker 3: So like one big thing for me is like I
15:20
Speaker 3: get really insecure about like I think all women do,
15:22
Speaker 3: like my looks, Like all see a beautiful woman on
15:25
Speaker 3: the street, and all of a sudden, I feel like shit,
15:27
Speaker 3: like and that's just like sucks, Like you shouldn't waste
15:30
Speaker 3: your life feeling terrible in your own body, your own skin,
15:33
Speaker 3: and I feel like most women do. So one mantra
15:36
Speaker 3: that I picked up years ago is you're not pretty
15:39
Speaker 3: like her, You're pretty like you. And that's just like
15:42
Speaker 3: it's so weird because like it's such a simple phrase,
15:44
Speaker 3: but the more you repeat it and it's something I like,
15:47
Speaker 3: I made a sticker out of it, like put it
15:48
Speaker 3: on my phone, And the more you repeat it and
15:51
Speaker 3: see it, the more you believe it.
15:52
Speaker 1: And so all of a sudden, I.
15:53
Speaker 3: Don't need to see the sticker, like I believe in it,
15:56
Speaker 3: and it makes me one judge, myself less, and it
15:59
Speaker 3: makes me less to mental of other women, Like I'm
16:01
Speaker 3: not all of a sudden like oh she's pretty, like
16:03
Speaker 3: fuck her, Like uh, it's more like, oh my god,
16:06
Speaker 3: that woman's beautiful, and I can be beautiful too, in
16:08
Speaker 3: my own unique way, and like that's great.
16:10
Speaker 2: If this photo of Julia Roberts in a red turtleneck
16:13
Speaker 2: and she has this like magnetic smile, and I keep
16:16
Speaker 2: it on my phone because I think to myself, happy
16:19
Speaker 2: girls are the prettiest girls. And it's my version of that, right,
16:22
Speaker 2: Like how do I find joy and stop thinking about
16:24
Speaker 2: my looks?
16:25
Speaker 1: Yes, that's a great one.
16:27
Speaker 2: But I think it's so interesting that this whole interview
16:30
Speaker 2: culminated into that, because obviously the title is pretty smart,
16:33
Speaker 2: and so much of it is about navigating how to
16:36
Speaker 2: realistically figure out how to care about our looks, which
16:39
Speaker 2: is inevitable, while simultaneously not caring at all, because that's
16:43
Speaker 2: when we're the most unhappy. Why do you think that
16:46
Speaker 2: pops up for you? Like what in our society, what
16:49
Speaker 2: in your upbringing created that for you?
16:51
Speaker 3: I think women are constantly just taught to compare themselves.
16:56
Speaker 3: And I don't know if that's I've read a lot
16:59
Speaker 3: of interesting things, and one thing I've read is that
17:01
Speaker 3: like women are pitted against each other so they're less,
17:04
Speaker 3: so they're distracted from like other issues.
17:08
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if that's why it.
17:10
Speaker 3: Happened, but I do feel like we're kind of and
17:12
Speaker 3: I think it's the media as well, Like the media
17:14
Speaker 3: is taught us this is what women worry about, and
17:16
Speaker 3: this is what women should care about, and women.
17:18
Speaker 1: It's so annoying.
17:18
Speaker 3: So I feel like women are always portrayed as like
17:21
Speaker 3: you have to be beautiful or else, like, oh, she's
17:23
Speaker 3: like she's smart, but she's ugly or like she's pretty
17:26
Speaker 3: but she's not.
17:26
Speaker 1: It's just like always one or the other. And I
17:29
Speaker 1: feel like men are never that way.
17:30
Speaker 3: It's like you can be really unattractive and still be
17:33
Speaker 3: really attractive as a man because like you're smart or
17:36
Speaker 3: you're wealthy. And for women, it always comes back to
17:39
Speaker 3: like looks and how you compare to other women. And
17:43
Speaker 3: I feel like if you can kind of get out
17:45
Speaker 3: of it, it's like a loop, you can just like
17:46
Speaker 3: get out of it.
17:47
Speaker 2: I think the first the first step is recognizing it.
17:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just and it takes time and you just
17:52
Speaker 1: have to kind of look.
17:52
Speaker 3: I have days where I'm like in a bad mood
17:55
Speaker 3: because I like I'm breaking out or I just hate
17:57
Speaker 3: my hanger and I'm just like oh, but then I'm like, okay,
18:01
Speaker 3: like stop this. You're wasting your life this way, like
18:04
Speaker 3: you can't, it's such a waste.
18:06
Speaker 2: I love that you share all these personal feelings and stories,
18:09
Speaker 2: specifically like it's nothing because you just say it. And
18:13
Speaker 2: I think you really make people. Other people feel seen.
18:16
Speaker 2: It normalizes things that we're not supposed to talk about,
18:19
Speaker 2: like moodiness.
18:20
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Thank you.
18:21
Speaker 3: I was I actually have gone through like a very
18:23
Speaker 3: interesting shift in relationship with my mother since like the
18:27
Speaker 3: startupwards of women because she's from a different generation, and
18:30
Speaker 3: she used to be like, you're sharing way too much,
18:32
Speaker 3: like this is way too personal, and I was like,
18:35
Speaker 3: this is like why, like what's wrong with telling people
18:37
Speaker 3: I feel anxious? What's wrong saying like I'm sad today
18:41
Speaker 3: and the other it's now been like five years, and
18:43
Speaker 3: she's like, I get it, and she was like, I
18:45
Speaker 3: feel like my generation, like we didn't even have women,
18:48
Speaker 3: I think, especially with pregnancy, like women would have babies
18:51
Speaker 3: and have no idea that other women felt postpartum or
18:54
Speaker 3: like felt, oh my god, this I don't feel great,
18:57
Speaker 3: and they would either like kill themselves or like beat
18:59
Speaker 3: a prass or like god forbid, kill the baby. And
19:01
Speaker 3: it's like maybe if there have been more voices out
19:03
Speaker 3: there normalizing the experience of like, hey, I just gave
19:06
Speaker 3: birth and I don't feel my best, there would be
19:09
Speaker 3: less pain in other women.
19:11
Speaker 2: I think. So that's why I really appreciate people who
19:14
Speaker 2: share honest stories, because it's like it's how we feel
19:17
Speaker 2: connected to one another.
19:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
19:19
Speaker 3: No, And I think I think if everyone just was
19:22
Speaker 3: more honest and upfront all the time. It would just
19:24
Speaker 3: be I just sometimes I do feel like do you
19:26
Speaker 3: ever get like that you share too much and then
19:28
Speaker 3: you feel like embarrassed, Like that's yeah.
19:30
Speaker 1: I hate that.
19:31
Speaker 3: And I used to feel like that all the time,
19:33
Speaker 3: Like I was an overshare. So I feel like at
19:35
Speaker 3: least writing is a medium. I feel like I can
19:37
Speaker 3: do it and not feel like it's editable, feel less naked. Yes, yes,
19:41
Speaker 3: I love that.
19:42
Speaker 2: I think there should be an overshare as anonymous group.
19:44
Speaker 1: We could start They just go and like word vomit feeling.
19:49
Speaker 2: So you write about your own anxiety, your feelings. You
19:52
Speaker 2: write about your own marriage often, which is very personal.
19:56
Speaker 2: What is your line? I know you mentioned you won't
19:58
Speaker 2: write about sex or friends.
20:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm learning to find that line. It's actually kind
20:03
Speaker 3: of hard. Like I think, being a good writer someone
20:05
Speaker 3: who can tastefully expose themselves without exposing others or exposing
20:11
Speaker 3: too much.
20:11
Speaker 1: Like it's very easy to just put it all out.
20:13
Speaker 3: There, it's a lot harder to get the point across
20:16
Speaker 3: without exposing too much of yourself.
20:18
Speaker 1: And I've I've.
20:19
Speaker 3: Definitely had like at one point my mother in law
20:21
Speaker 3: called me and she'd in like something I wrote about
20:24
Speaker 3: you know, it wasn't even like damaging about my husband,
20:27
Speaker 3: but I think it kind of shattered an illusion she
20:30
Speaker 3: had about our relationship. And other times my mom hates
20:33
Speaker 3: like I said something about my sister, once I says
20:35
Speaker 3: to me about my brother. And I've learned like, okay,
20:37
Speaker 3: you just can't cross those lines. And at the time
20:40
Speaker 3: I thought I was in the right.
20:41
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm an.
20:42
Speaker 3: Artist, I'm a writer. What can I write about if
20:44
Speaker 3: I can't write about real things? And now I'm learning like, Okay,
20:47
Speaker 3: there's a way to do it. And I'm still finding
20:49
Speaker 3: that line. And I think you're always going to make mistakes.
20:51
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I think anybody in a creative field has
20:55
Speaker 2: to kind of jog that line in their own way.
20:58
Speaker 2: How are you finding that?
20:59
Speaker 3: It's funny because you have these moments in life and
21:01
Speaker 3: like someone will say something to you and it like
21:03
Speaker 3: it hurts you, it makes you cry, like you break
21:05
Speaker 3: down and you're just like that was a shitty.
21:07
Speaker 1: Moment, that was a bad day.
21:08
Speaker 3: And then you don't realize like you're never going to
21:10
Speaker 3: forget that moment, and that moment molds you into someone else.
21:13
Speaker 3: So like I've had so many of those moments of
21:15
Speaker 3: like friends, you know, calling me out our parents, and
21:19
Speaker 3: that that's how I've built that line, I think over
21:21
Speaker 3: the years and like, I just inherently am starting to
21:24
Speaker 3: kind of find it through all these experiences.
21:27
Speaker 2: Have you lost any relationships?
21:29
Speaker 3: I think I think I've deliberately pushed people away. They
21:32
Speaker 3: say writers are always alone. I mean, you're always going
21:34
Speaker 3: through life kind of alone in your own world. And
21:37
Speaker 3: I think i've, Like I talk about my ex best
21:39
Speaker 3: friend in the book. We had like this relationship and
21:42
Speaker 3: we were in New York together, and we were in
21:44
Speaker 3: college together, and then it just kind of like blew up,
21:47
Speaker 3: and we haven't talked in like three years, and it's
21:50
Speaker 3: it's been really hard for me. And I sometimes wonder
21:52
Speaker 3: if I did that so I could write about her,
21:55
Speaker 3: But I actually don't find myself writing about her because
21:57
Speaker 3: it's kind of painful.
21:59
Speaker 2: So interesting. I don't know anything about that situation. But
22:02
Speaker 2: I do think that one of the topics I wanted
22:04
Speaker 2: to cover in this podcast are female friendships because I
22:07
Speaker 2: don't think they're spoken enough about, and they're very complicated.
22:11
Speaker 1: So complicated.
22:11
Speaker 3: I was actually thinking female friendships and I think sibling
22:15
Speaker 3: relationships are completely misrepresented in the media, and I feel
22:20
Speaker 3: like everyone just you're It's kind of like, I can't
22:23
Speaker 3: think of a good example, but it's like you expect
22:25
Speaker 3: to have a best friend, and you expect have this
22:26
Speaker 3: amazing relationship with your siblings where you're like best friends,
22:30
Speaker 3: and I don't know anyone who has that, Like I
22:32
Speaker 3: don't know anyone who's except some sisters. I might know
22:35
Speaker 3: one sister, one pair of sisters, but like most siblings,
22:39
Speaker 3: I find until they get older, are quite uncomfortable with
22:41
Speaker 3: each other.
22:42
Speaker 2: It's interesting, and we're not really taught how to facilitate
22:45
Speaker 2: those relationships. I think it's interesting you say media, because
22:49
Speaker 2: there's so many team comedy dramas that I grew up watching,
22:53
Speaker 2: and now there's new ones like The Bold Type, which
22:54
Speaker 2: I think is awesome, and they idealize these female friendships
22:59
Speaker 2: and I even look at them and I'm like, I
23:00
Speaker 2: wish I had that, Like that's not really what my
23:02
Speaker 2: friendships look like. They're a lot more complicated and nuanced.
23:06
Speaker 3: I also feel like they're constant, like work, and they're constant,
23:10
Speaker 3: Like I just feel like as you get older, you
23:13
Speaker 3: get more insecure in a way, and then you start
23:15
Speaker 3: questioning yourself and you start questioning your friendships. And I think,
23:19
Speaker 3: you know, people change, like we're just evolving constantly, and
23:22
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, the person you thought it was
23:23
Speaker 3: your best friend is totally different, or they're married and
23:26
Speaker 3: they have kids and that are a totally different life
23:28
Speaker 3: stage and you just don't have the same things in common.
23:31
Speaker 1: And I feel like, and I talk about.
23:32
Speaker 3: This in the book, there's a lot of psychology behind it,
23:35
Speaker 3: and this one doctor talks about how like females identify
23:38
Speaker 3: by their relationships, So a break in a relationship is
23:41
Speaker 3: like a complete loss of self and a loss of
23:43
Speaker 3: you know, self esteem and identity, but we don't talk
23:46
Speaker 3: about it. And I do feel like there are days
23:49
Speaker 3: when I feel like there's no one I can talk
23:51
Speaker 3: to in the way that I want to speak to,
23:53
Speaker 3: and it's hard.
23:55
Speaker 2: I didn't know that females identify based on their relationships.
23:59
Speaker 3: And a break relationships compared to like a total loss
24:02
Speaker 3: of self, And I think that's why I put so
24:04
Speaker 3: much pressure on ourselves when like our friends don't respond
24:07
Speaker 3: or we have feeling left out. And I feel like
24:09
Speaker 3: it's because we see it so personally as part of
24:13
Speaker 3: our identity when like people don't.
24:14
Speaker 1: Respond to us.
24:15
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow, So I saw you tweet something it said
24:19
Speaker 2: new theory. The better the Instagram account, the shittier the life. Yeah,
24:24
Speaker 2: do you stand by that? That is how I feel
24:26
Speaker 2: because I.
24:28
Speaker 3: I'm not a good Instagram Well, I feel like every
24:31
Speaker 3: time I post something cool about my life, it's usually
24:33
Speaker 3: because I'm feeling shitty about it. Like I like the
24:36
Speaker 3: validation and I feel like a lot of people I
24:39
Speaker 3: know have these like sick instagrams, and when you expect
24:42
Speaker 3: when you meet them, you think they're going to be
24:43
Speaker 3: like And I'm not talking about followers. I'm talking about
24:46
Speaker 3: the way they're presenting their life.
24:48
Speaker 1: But I don't know.
24:49
Speaker 3: I was much younger when I wrote that, So but
24:52
Speaker 3: I stand by the general concept.
24:54
Speaker 2: I do too. I think, listen, I've learned a lot
24:56
Speaker 2: through Instagram. Right, There's there's ways in which it adds BA.
25:00
Speaker 2: But I do find myself happier when I'm not on it,
25:03
Speaker 2: So that says something.
25:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, less judge. I think you're judging yourself less.
25:08
Speaker 2: Yes, And I learned through therapy. My therapist would ask
25:12
Speaker 2: questions and there was zero judgment. I could you know,
25:14
Speaker 2: you can just feel when someone doesn't judge you. And
25:17
Speaker 2: I was like, how do I do that to other people? Like,
25:19
Speaker 2: how do I I want to give you give me
25:21
Speaker 2: such a gift? How do I do that in my
25:22
Speaker 2: interviews with my friendships? And she was like, you're not
25:25
Speaker 2: going to like the answer. I was like, what is it.
25:27
Speaker 2: She's like, if you judge yourself less, you judge others less.
25:31
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, well that's hard.
25:34
Speaker 1: It's so true though, that's so insightful.
25:37
Speaker 3: It was that reminds me of something like the more
25:40
Speaker 3: you love yourself, the more you love the world.
25:42
Speaker 1: It's just like the same.
25:43
Speaker 3: And it's like what we hate in others is what
25:45
Speaker 3: we hate in ourselves.
25:46
Speaker 2: So that's for sure, so true. Yeah, you identify a
25:49
Speaker 2: wound you need to heal for sure. Are there any
25:53
Speaker 2: ways in which you think Instagram's been a positive landscape
25:56
Speaker 2: for women?
25:57
Speaker 1: Yes? I think one.
25:58
Speaker 3: I felt like my career offense. I never thought I would.
26:01
Speaker 3: I was super late to Instagram, and I like never knew.
26:04
Speaker 3: I've never really personally, I've never gotten into posting. But
26:07
Speaker 3: I think it's a great platform for women to connect.
26:11
Speaker 3: I like talked to so many women and I've met
26:12
Speaker 3: so many amazing women like including yourself through it. I
26:15
Speaker 3: want it for lunch the other day with a girl
26:17
Speaker 3: who like, really like resonated with one of the newsletters
26:19
Speaker 3: and reached out to me on Instagram. And she happens
26:22
Speaker 3: to live in my neighborhood that I just moved to,
26:23
Speaker 3: so we got coffee, and I just feel like it also.
26:26
Speaker 1: Has been great for promoting I mean, we see both sides.
26:29
Speaker 3: It's been bad in terms of, like we saw what
26:31
Speaker 3: happened with the Cambridge Analytica stuff, but I think it
26:34
Speaker 3: also does mobilize people and it makes people aware and
26:37
Speaker 3: you're able to get messages out, So in that I
26:39
Speaker 3: think it's awesome.
26:40
Speaker 2: You have over three hundred thousand people tuning into every
26:45
Speaker 2: word that you're posting, and I'm wondering, if there's a
26:48
Speaker 2: feedback loop, how do you measure your impact?
26:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, what happens is and I've noticed the more followers
26:53
Speaker 3: you get, the less natural posting. I start to overthink everything,
26:57
Speaker 3: Like I think, I'm like, oh, like I know my
27:00
Speaker 3: leather and as following me. I also know this guy
27:02
Speaker 3: is following me from high school. I also know this,
27:04
Speaker 3: and it's like, how can I appease all these different people?
27:07
Speaker 3: And all of a sudden, I become paralyzed. I used
27:09
Speaker 3: to write the newsletters and post and not care about
27:13
Speaker 3: feedback because I was just so interested in building and
27:16
Speaker 3: just like getting my emotions across. But now I've become
27:19
Speaker 3: because I'm so used to getting feedback, I think I've
27:22
Speaker 3: become a little addicted to it, which scares me. Like
27:24
Speaker 3: if a newsletter doesn't get a lot of responses, I'm like, oh,
27:27
Speaker 3: it was bad, But like there have been so many
27:30
Speaker 3: times like I would post and never get responses and
27:32
Speaker 3: not care and still believe it was good. So I
27:34
Speaker 3: feel like we can become obsessed with feedback and validation,
27:37
Speaker 3: and that's one of the downfalls of the Internet. It's
27:40
Speaker 3: like this constant valid when you put something out, people respond, but.
27:43
Speaker 1: Like we have to get more used to being like.
27:45
Speaker 3: Sometimes no one's going to respond and it's still it's
27:48
Speaker 3: still good and it's still valid.
27:50
Speaker 1: Yeah.
27:50
Speaker 2: What responses are most frequent from women? Like what kind
27:53
Speaker 2: of deep? Because I always find in what I post
27:56
Speaker 2: my most interesting replies are via DM because I think
27:59
Speaker 2: there are things that people don't necessarily feel comfortable putting
28:02
Speaker 2: on a public page, but I get so many interesting
28:05
Speaker 2: dms from women totally.
28:07
Speaker 1: I think the most interesting for me have made.
28:10
Speaker 3: Mainly the ones that I save are the ones that
28:12
Speaker 3: are like, I feel the exact same way, like I
28:15
Speaker 3: never saw it, And ones that are like, I like,
28:18
Speaker 3: go back to these quotes and you're writing when I
28:20
Speaker 3: feel bad. That makes me feel so much better because
28:23
Speaker 3: it gives purpose to what I'm doing. Those are probably
28:25
Speaker 3: the best ones that I get. And recommendations. Girls recommend
28:28
Speaker 3: stuff to me all the time and I love it.
28:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually found you through recommendation years ago. Oh see, exactly,
28:35
Speaker 2: so good feedback, Boots. Yeah, do you have a quote
28:38
Speaker 2: that you live by? I know there's so many you.
28:40
Speaker 1: Love, Yeah, I do.
28:42
Speaker 3: One is Patti Smith and that's build a good name
28:46
Speaker 3: and keep your name clean. That's so important to me
28:49
Speaker 3: because I feel like it's so easy to start selling out,
28:51
Speaker 3: especially as a writer.
28:53
Speaker 1: That's a good one.
28:54
Speaker 3: Patience is not the ability to wait, but the ability
28:57
Speaker 3: to keep a good attitude while waiting.
28:59
Speaker 2: Oh I have heard that.
29:00
Speaker 1: I like that.
29:01
Speaker 3: I like always say that whenever I'm like in a
29:02
Speaker 3: hurry and like stuck on a plane. A Bukowski one
29:05
Speaker 3: I love, which is today I will walk in the sun.
29:08
Speaker 3: I will simply walk in the sun, so like it's
29:12
Speaker 3: just simple. I'll probably think of more, but.
29:15
Speaker 2: I know those are beautiful. I love this, you know.
29:17
Speaker 2: I heard Gloria Steinem speak about a year and a
29:20
Speaker 2: half ago, and she wrote a book based on quotes.
29:23
Speaker 2: She loves quotes too, and she said that they inspire
29:26
Speaker 2: so many of her stories and that I love what
29:28
Speaker 2: she said, like one of the most feminist things you
29:31
Speaker 2: can do is share your stories, your honest stories with
29:33
Speaker 2: other women, and she said quotes are bits and pieces
29:36
Speaker 2: of that, right, like there are honest feelings.
29:38
Speaker 1: I love that.
29:39
Speaker 3: I need to find that book. Yeah, I don't know
29:41
Speaker 3: how I did not know about this. I'm writing that down. Yeah,
29:43
Speaker 3: I can send it to you, Yes, please do.
29:46
Speaker 1: There's another one.
29:47
Speaker 3: It's like I think it's Brene Brown and she's like,
29:49
Speaker 3: coats might seem cheesy, but you don't realize like when
29:52
Speaker 3: you get a line or a phrase that touches you,
29:55
Speaker 3: it can like heal you. And that's truly, like the
29:57
Speaker 3: right phrase can really heal you. And I think it
30:00
Speaker 3: comes back to that whole thing of like I feel
30:02
Speaker 3: this too. I feel the same way, and I think
30:04
Speaker 3: that's what women just want, Like we want to feel
30:07
Speaker 3: understood because we're inherently misunderstood all the time.
30:10
Speaker 2: I think humans in general have a real need to
30:13
Speaker 2: feel seen and validated. And then, like you said, women
30:17
Speaker 2: are particularly misunderstood. Yes, I think it's the reason people
30:22
Speaker 2: like me and you are obsessed with womanhood, right, like
30:24
Speaker 2: our careers are founded on trying to understand it better
30:28
Speaker 2: or connect with people who feel the same way.
30:30
Speaker 3: I think it's one of those things as you get older,
30:31
Speaker 3: like you live your whole life a certain way, and
30:33
Speaker 3: you get older and you get.
30:34
Speaker 1: More knowledge and you're like, whoa, Like my whole.
30:37
Speaker 3: Identity has been shaped around things that I either didn't
30:40
Speaker 3: understand didn't have control over, and not in an aggressive way.
30:44
Speaker 3: It's just little things like you know, I didn't realize
30:47
Speaker 3: like I don't know how to speak up for myself
30:49
Speaker 3: because I just wasn't taught to the way my brother was.
30:53
Speaker 3: And it's just like kind of relearning certain things about
30:56
Speaker 3: yourself and about how to act in the world and
30:58
Speaker 3: be in the world.
30:59
Speaker 1: And it's so mean spiral for like years.
31:02
Speaker 2: I found a lot of my adult life has been unlearning.
31:05
Speaker 3: Actually, yes, yes, unlearning is a great one unlearning learning.
31:10
Speaker 2: Do you have any role models are there? Do you
31:12
Speaker 2: have someone that you really look to?
31:14
Speaker 1: I have a lot.
31:15
Speaker 3: Actually that's a really good question. I really love Phoebe
31:18
Speaker 3: waller Bridge. I think what she did is kind of
31:22
Speaker 3: like what I kind of tried to do with Bords
31:25
Speaker 3: of Women in the book. Like she was an actress
31:28
Speaker 3: and she couldn't get any parts really and she was
31:30
Speaker 3: in her thirties, and she was like, oh, like it
31:33
Speaker 3: wasn't the regular system wasn't working for her. This auditioning
31:36
Speaker 3: thing wasn't working. So she was just like screw it,
31:38
Speaker 3: Like I'm going to write myself my own part in
31:41
Speaker 3: my own one woman play. I'm going to put it
31:43
Speaker 3: on and I'm going to put myself out there. And
31:44
Speaker 3: she did that and it was at like a festival,
31:47
Speaker 3: like a theater festival that like someone saw her play,
31:50
Speaker 3: loved it and like gave her.
31:52
Speaker 1: Her big break.
31:52
Speaker 3: And from there she's just like sword And I feel
31:55
Speaker 3: like anyone who I really admire has done that kind
31:57
Speaker 3: of like Suirly, it's Shirley Chi's she says, like, if
32:00
Speaker 3: they don't give you a seat, bring a folding chair.
32:03
Speaker 3: I really respect women who kind of like you don't
32:06
Speaker 3: have to do the traditional route, Like if you want
32:07
Speaker 3: to be a writer, you don't have to get a
32:09
Speaker 3: job at Vogue and you don't have to work in
32:10
Speaker 3: a magazine, Like you can build your own corner of
32:13
Speaker 3: the world and kind of right from.
32:14
Speaker 1: There and build your own thing.
32:16
Speaker 2: What do you think the key is to doing that?
32:17
Speaker 2: You have to have a real perspective or I think you.
32:20
Speaker 1: Have reliance self reliance.
32:22
Speaker 3: I think you have to have a real belief in
32:24
Speaker 3: yourself and real drive and focus, and you have to
32:28
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say I'm the most outgoing person. I wouldn't
32:31
Speaker 3: say I'm very good at like promoting myself, but I
32:33
Speaker 3: do believe in what I'm doing enough that I can
32:35
Speaker 3: like be like, okay, people, I want you to follow
32:38
Speaker 3: this and follow me, and you have to. I think
32:40
Speaker 3: it's self belief, self motivation, and you have to be
32:43
Speaker 3: able to stick with it. I think a lot of
32:44
Speaker 3: people like accounts take a long time to grow, Like
32:47
Speaker 3: it takes a long time to grow an audience. It
32:48
Speaker 3: takes a long time to build a brand, to build
32:50
Speaker 3: your name, and people if they don't start seeing that
32:53
Speaker 3: within like the first year or two, they're like, oh,
32:55
Speaker 3: screw it. So I think it's also a labor of love,
32:58
Speaker 3: like you have to love it because you just keep
33:00
Speaker 3: doing it until it is what it is.
33:03
Speaker 2: Did you find that with Words of Women? Did it
33:04
Speaker 2: take time to build your account?
33:06
Speaker 1: Yeah?
33:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I didn't. I wasn't worried. I didn't know
33:08
Speaker 3: what I was doing with it. It was just like,
33:10
Speaker 3: this is my safe space, this is my little corner
33:13
Speaker 3: of the internet. And yeah, I hope one day it
33:16
Speaker 3: turns into something, but for right now, like it's just
33:18
Speaker 3: going to be what I want it today, and it's
33:19
Speaker 3: just going to be quotes that make me feel better,
33:22
Speaker 3: and if it helps other women, so be it. And
33:24
Speaker 3: I think that authenticity in a very inauthentic landscape helped
33:29
Speaker 3: to like propel its growth quicker.
33:31
Speaker 2: Then I've heard you say it's a school of thought.
33:33
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, it's a school of thought, and I think
33:37
Speaker 3: I think that is what It's an idea that you're
33:39
Speaker 3: reprogramming the way you think about things, so it's not
33:42
Speaker 3: just always like inspirational quotes like I try and do
33:44
Speaker 3: like thought provoking things like why do we lie? Why
33:48
Speaker 3: are we insecure? Why do I feel this way? And
33:51
Speaker 3: I think by thinking about it more, we're starting to
33:54
Speaker 3: like train ourselves to think differently, or to at least
33:57
Speaker 3: examine these thoughts that aren't correct or are hurting us
34:01
Speaker 3: a lot.
34:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, I heard you say that calm is contagious. Why
34:05
Speaker 2: do you think we need that more than ever right now?
34:08
Speaker 3: Or I think the state of the world brings an
34:11
Speaker 3: inherent anxiety to all of us. And I think that
34:14
Speaker 3: anxiety is manifested into moods. And I think though, when
34:19
Speaker 3: I'm in a good mood, I see it affects It's
34:22
Speaker 3: a ripple effect, like it affects my husband, and then
34:24
Speaker 3: I saw him like when he's on the phone with
34:25
Speaker 3: his mom, he's in a good mood, and when I'm
34:27
Speaker 3: in a bad mood, it affects him. And then it
34:28
Speaker 3: just keeps rippling. And I have to wonder if, like,
34:32
Speaker 3: if everyone was just a little bit tried a little
34:35
Speaker 3: harder to think about the energy they're transmitting. Maybe it's
34:38
Speaker 3: not calm, but maybe it's happy, and maybe it's you know, content,
34:42
Speaker 3: there will be a little bit less anger in the
34:45
Speaker 3: world because it's just like a knock on effect, Like
34:48
Speaker 3: you're having a bad day, you take it out on
34:50
Speaker 3: the guy at the grocery store. He takes it out
34:52
Speaker 3: on his wife. She takes it out on our kids.
34:54
Speaker 3: The kids take it out, and she's constant. I feel
34:56
Speaker 3: like we're in this cycle. So I've never thought about
34:59
Speaker 3: it that way. I like that, Well, it's energy transferable.
35:04
Speaker 2: What's a book that has changed your life or really
35:07
Speaker 2: shifted your perspective.
35:08
Speaker 3: There's a few, Just Kids by Patti Smith. I think
35:11
Speaker 3: it's when you read books, they really affect you, like.
35:13
Speaker 1: The time in your life when you need them.
35:15
Speaker 3: I just read that at a time I was really lonely,
35:18
Speaker 3: I was really lost. I was new to New York,
35:19
Speaker 3: and it really gave me the strength and the faith
35:23
Speaker 3: to keep going with my work and to just like
35:26
Speaker 3: not sell out because it's so easy to be like,
35:28
Speaker 3: this isn't working. I should go back to corporate America.
35:30
Speaker 3: This isn't working. So it gave me the courage I needed.
35:33
Speaker 3: The bel Jar Sylvia Plath, I think that was the
35:36
Speaker 3: first book I've read that I was like, oh my God, like,
35:38
Speaker 3: even though obviously we all know it doesn't end well,
35:40
Speaker 3: like she really just exemplified how I feel sometimes, and
35:45
Speaker 3: I think how all women feel, and we all have
35:47
Speaker 3: these inner monologues and moments we don't feel great. Those
35:50
Speaker 3: were two big ones, and the sun also rises by Hemingway.
35:55
Speaker 3: I think just the idea of like yearning for something
35:58
Speaker 3: but not being able to ever have it. Also just
36:00
Speaker 3: kind of accepting your lot in life and your fate
36:03
Speaker 3: and rolling with the punches.
36:05
Speaker 1: That's going for me.
36:06
Speaker 2: Okay, I have a pretty smart question for you. We
36:09
Speaker 2: have a card deck, I asked, Oh, everybody one, very cool. Okay,
36:14
Speaker 2: I pick one at random. Okay, when have you felt
36:18
Speaker 2: the closest to magic in your life? Oh?
36:21
Speaker 1: I probably have two instances.
36:23
Speaker 3: One is I've been having really intense dreams lately, like
36:27
Speaker 3: my dreams. I had a dream the other day and
36:30
Speaker 3: a girl I hadn't talked to her five years was pregnant.
36:33
Speaker 3: And I texted her like the next day all the blue,
36:35
Speaker 3: just being like hey, like how are you? By the way,
36:37
Speaker 3: I weren't pregnant by any chance are you? And she
36:39
Speaker 3: was like I am, which was very weird. I had
36:42
Speaker 3: a dream my agent was like trying to get in
36:44
Speaker 3: touch with me two weeks after that, like very intensely,
36:47
Speaker 3: and then like the next day she called me and
36:48
Speaker 3: we'd like sold the rights to like South Korea. So
36:51
Speaker 3: like that has been like crazy but in terms of
36:54
Speaker 3: like magic, I've definitely had those moments where like my
36:57
Speaker 3: like bodies things, and like I feel very alive. Usually
37:01
Speaker 3: that's on the New York subway, Like I feel like
37:04
Speaker 3: the energy of people, and I feel like this like
37:07
Speaker 3: magic of the city, and I really feel like it's
37:09
Speaker 3: a real thing.
37:11
Speaker 2: I love that you're very in tune. I guess it's
37:14
Speaker 2: it's a blessing and a curse, right, It's difficult.
37:16
Speaker 3: Oh, I feel like most moody women are pretty in tune.
37:19
Speaker 3: Like you're just very like you're you're receptive.
37:23
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. How about the smartest decision you've ever made.
37:26
Speaker 3: The smartest decision I ever made was to not sell
37:31
Speaker 3: out words of women before it was time. I had
37:35
Speaker 3: a lot of like you probably know, I get offered
37:37
Speaker 3: sometimes to do like sponsor things or to like and
37:40
Speaker 3: there I just feel like should always go with your gut,
37:42
Speaker 3: and like I always knew, Like there's a point where
37:44
Speaker 3: Mom said, like what are you doing, Like you're wasting
37:46
Speaker 3: all this time and like to send the newsletters like
37:49
Speaker 3: expensive because I'm doing Mailchimp. It's like two hundred and
37:52
Speaker 3: fifty a month. And it's been four years and she's like,
37:54
Speaker 3: why are you doing this? Like you should just like stop,
37:57
Speaker 3: or I was like, there's all I'm waiting for that
37:59
Speaker 3: like timing, I'm waiting for that book that I've been
38:02
Speaker 3: wanting to write. And then it just happened. But it
38:04
Speaker 3: took time, and I think waiting was the smartest decision.
38:07
Speaker 1: I ever made.
38:08
Speaker 2: And following my gut, I was going to say, the
38:10
Speaker 2: waiting actually feels like listening to your heart and soul
38:13
Speaker 2: and your gut instinct exactly, which is difficult.
38:16
Speaker 1: That's exactly what it is.
38:18
Speaker 2: Well, I think this book is going to help a
38:20
Speaker 2: lot of people. So I'm so grateful for your time
38:22
Speaker 2: and everybody go check out the Book of Moods.
38:26
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much. It's been so lovely. I mean,
38:29
Speaker 3: I love to talk about myself in the book for
38:31
Speaker 3: like an.
38:31
Speaker 2: Hour's Lauren has this very unique ability to unpack feelings,
38:39
Speaker 2: emotions and moods that I don't or can't find the
38:43
Speaker 2: words for. It is in it liberating to know next
38:45
Speaker 2: time someone says you're in a mood, you can say yeah,
38:48
Speaker 2: I am, or you can even identify it yourself, use
38:51
Speaker 2: it and move forward deliberating. All right, today's a good day.
38:55
Speaker 2: To have a good day. We'll see you next week.