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Dating Reinvented: Finding Love After 50 · No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women

0:05
Mary: Welcome to No Shrinking Violets.
0:07
Mary: I'm your host, Mary Rothwell, licensed therapist and certified integrative mental health practitioner.
0:13
Mary: I've created a space where we celebrate the intuition and power of women who want to break free from limiting narratives.
0:20
Mary: We'll explore all realms of wellness what it means to take up space unapologetically, and how your essential nature is key to living life on your terms.
0:29
Mary: It's time to own your space, trust your nature and flourish.
0:34
Mary: Let's dive in.
0:35
Mary: Hey, violets, welcome to the show.
0:42
Mary: Before I begin, I wanted to put out a call to any woman that thinks she has her own story of taking up space to tell.
0:49
Mary: My most loved episodes are ones where women tell their personal stories of overcoming challenges and growing and expanding into a new emotional space.
0:58
Mary: If you feel like it's time for you to inspire others with your story, check out the link in my show notes for a contact form.
1:06
Mary: I'd love to help you share your narrative with the world.
1:09
Mary: Okay, on to the show.
1:12
Mary: As someone who didn't marry until 37, then got divorced at 47, and remarried about two and a half years ago, I know a bit about online dating.
1:21
Mary: I met my first husband through an ad in the newspaper the Gen X version of a dating app.
1:29
Mary: People wrote a short intro, no more than two sentences, no pictures.
1:34
Mary: There was a main phone number to call.
1:36
Mary: Then you dialed the extension for the ad you liked.
1:39
Mary: That got you to an audio introduction from the person that wrote the ad.
1:43
Mary: If you were interested, you left your name and phone number.
1:45
Mary: If you weren't, you hit next and entered the number for the next ad you wanted to hear.
1:50
Mary: All you had to go on was the tone of voice.
1:53
Mary: I hit next, quite often after only the first few words.
1:58
Mary: Thinking of that, now I realize how random it was to choose someone to date, even just a first date, based only on what they could convey in a few sentences then how their voice sounded.
2:09
Mary: But honestly, how simple that was compared to today.
2:13
Mary: Now there are pictures to choose and a profile to write and first dates to suggest.
2:18
Mary: At least on Hinge, where I recently looked at a profile of a young person who wanted some insight, I didn't have any.
2:25
Mary: That is way too complex for me.
2:27
Mary: And then there are all the apps which one might have the type of potential mate that I'm looking for.
2:34
Mary: Do I like the style of matching or swiping?
2:37
Mary: In my own dating days, I was most bothered by the dismissiveness of online quote meeting.
2:43
Mary: I would not only take time to reference activities or other details from the profile of someone I was interested in to craft my hello message, while men often simply wrote what's up or I like your pictures.
2:55
Mary: But when someone reached out to me, even with one of those inane sentences, I took the time to write something back.
3:01
Mary: I mean, if someone approached you in person, would you just abruptly turn and walk away?
3:04
Mary: I mean, if someone approached you in person, would you just abruptly turn and walk away?
3:06
Mary: I mean if they were actually sincere and not creepy.
3:09
Mary: But it's much easier for people to just ignore messages from people they aren't interested in.
3:14
Mary: I learned not to be offended but instead framed it as important information.
3:19
Mary: If you can't take 30 seconds to respond out of courtesy, what kind of communicator might you be in a real relationship?
3:25
Mary: And even as I'm saying all this, I can feel a bit of the chest tightening.
3:30
Mary: That was part of my very early days on dating apps.
3:33
Mary: It was exciting and anxiety-ridden all at once.
3:36
Mary: Like shopping for a new car all that shiny potential with no idea what was under the hood, waiting to go wrong.
3:42
Mary: For people in midlife, especially those who are re-entering the dating world after long relationships.
3:48
Mary: Navigating the online world of matchmaking can make any woman wanna stay home, make popcorn and just binge watch.
3:55
Mary: Anything but my guest today can offer hope.
3:59
Mary: Andrea McGinty is a true pioneer in the world of dating and relationships.
4:03
Mary: As the founder of it's Just Lunch and 33000datescom, andrea has helped millions of singles navigate the often tricky waters of modern dating.
4:13
Mary: She has over 30 years of experience and has helped facilitate over 10,000 marriages.
4:18
Mary: She's been featured on Oprah, the Today Show, the New York Times and more, sharing her insights into finding love at every stage of life.
4:27
Mary: Now Andrea is on a mission to empower singles over 50 with practical, no-nonsense advice for building meaningful connections in their second act.
4:36
Mary: So whether you're diving back into the dating pool or just curious about what's changed, andrea is here today to guide the way Her influence has shaped the industry, creating a legacy that stands out in the world of matchmaking.
4:49
Mary: Andrea's book Second Acts Winning Strategies for Dating Over 50, is available on her website, amazon and anywhere else you buy your books, and we'll talk about that more near the end.
5:00
Mary: Welcome to no Shrinking Violets, andrea.
5:03
Andrea: Oh thanks, mary.
5:04
Andrea: You know that was quite an intro because I was just laughing when you were talking about the personal ads where you would dial in in the early days and people don't realize how good we have it now because that's all there was.
5:22
Andrea: I go back to the days of, like, the village voice or the people that were a little more upscale would do the like New York book review, you know, and respond to those personal ads.
5:37
Andrea: So we've got it so good now.
5:40
Andrea: And when I go back to you know 1990, when I got involved in this whole thing and I can tell you in a minute how I got involved you know there was no Google, there was no online dating, there was nothing.
5:55
Andrea: So if you are a 50 or 60 year old woman, you know, good luck, just good luck, you know.
6:04
Andrea: And it's changed so much for those people in their second acts of life and with more divorce going on in their 50s.
6:14
Andrea: So it's a great change.
6:17
Mary: For sure.
6:18
Mary: It's also really, really intimidating and I know we're going to get into this a lot more, but I know one of the overwhelming things is how do you even start to build the profile and to sort through profiles?
6:29
Mary: But I know we're going to get to that, but could we start with you sharing your story, because I know that you were going to get married in your twenties and that didn't happen.
6:38
Mary: Can you share a little about that story?
6:40
Mary: And then, how did that experience shape you, and I mean even where things are today?
6:46
Andrea: Oh, it shaped my entire life and, of course, at the moment that it happened I didn't realize the impact it was going to have.
6:54
Andrea: So I was in my early twenties, I was engaged, I was getting married and two days before the wedding he called it off.
7:01
Andrea: So, living in Chicago, I was like, oh my gosh, I had like this life planned out.
7:10
Andrea: And you know, after I got over you know the crying and the poor me I started.
7:18
Andrea: You know my friends would fix me up on dates and, yeah, I'm pretty tall, I'm like five foot 10.
7:25
Andrea: And some of these dates my friends would fix me up on, you know, they were like five foot five and nothing against five foot five men.
7:32
Andrea: But I felt like an elephant, I felt like a giraffe, you know, I just felt like so big and uh and plus.
7:39
Andrea: You know, in those days people were doing like dinner dates and you knew in the first, like 15 or 20 minutes, whether there was chemistry.
7:44
Andrea: But you know, in those days people were doing like dinner dates and you knew in the first, like 15 or 20 minutes, whether there was chemistry.
7:47
Andrea: But you know, oh, I'm going to be sitting here for another two hours to be polite.
7:52
Andrea: And so, um, what happened?
7:56
Andrea: You know, it's kind of like one of those things where you know a door closes and you know a window opens, and so one day again, you know I'm like 23 and I get a phone call from an executive recruiter and you know, calling about some professional opportunities.
8:14
Andrea: I was an accounting and finance major and which I never used, by the way, as we will soon find out and you know she was calling me about you know these jobs or you know career opportunities, and I was like geez, as I'm listening to her talk, I'm thinking why isn't she calling me about?
8:35
Andrea: Like two men I'd be really interested in?
8:38
Andrea: You know that she's picked out for me.
8:42
Andrea: So I got this idea that wouldn't it be great if there was a service that just did something where you met over lunch or you met over you know a drink after work, and hence that's how it's just lunch was born.
8:59
Andrea: I thought, oh, this is a great idea.
9:00
Andrea: Again.
9:00
Andrea: I thought, oh, this is a great idea Again.
9:02
Andrea: No, online dating, there is nothing, nothing out there.
9:05
Andrea: And so I started it's Just Lunch, with nothing.
9:17
Andrea: I had $3,000.
9:17
Andrea: That's it, that's it.
9:19
Andrea: And it paid for a little tiny office space and 20,000 black and white brochures that I still have a few that I laugh about now.
9:27
Andrea: So I have all these brochures that I'm like, oh, I don't have any money to mail them.
9:31
Andrea: What am I going to do with all these things?
9:34
Andrea: So this one night I talked a couple of my girlfriends in into it was a Saturday night, you know, early Sunday morning, it's probably like two or 3 am into walking through some neighborhoods in Chicago that were very like yuppie oriented, like Lincoln Park and the Gold Coast, et cetera, and we were going to put them under people's you know doorsteps of their brownstones and stuff.
9:59
Andrea: But then I saw the Chicago Tribune guy and he was delivering the big fat, you know Sunday Chicago Tribune in a really nice bag to each house.
10:11
Andrea: And I thought, oh, let's just follow this guy around with the brochure inside because it'll make us look like we have credibility and we have money and that we can advertise in the Chicago Tribune.
10:25
Andrea: And anyway, my first call, you know, I ran back to the office.
10:31
Andrea: I remember I got a bagel.
10:32
Andrea: I'm sitting at the office at like 7 am I'm like, oh, the phone is going to ring off the hook.
10:38
Andrea: Chicago's going to go wild over this idea.
10:40
Andrea: And you know, of course.
10:44
Andrea: Course.
10:44
Andrea: I'd written a business plan, you know, for for my whole idea, and one of the first people to call me was a woman who is a PR person.
10:54
Andrea: Again 1990, people weren't really up on what PR was Right.
10:59
Andrea: So she said, hey, you trade me some dates, I'll do your PR for you.
11:05
Andrea: And I'm like, OK, all right, well, what the heck, I don't have any money.
11:11
Andrea: You know, this is a trade, we can work with this.
11:15
Andrea: So the first thing she got me was a little article in the business magazine in Chicago and that morphed into a three-page feature in Chicago Magazine and from there the ball really really started rolling and the Wall Street Journal picked it up and People Magazine picked it up.
11:38
Andrea: And then I'm two months into this business and I'm like praying, praying, praying.
11:43
Andrea: It's going to work.
11:44
Andrea: And so I'm standing in line in a grocery store in Chicago and it's kind of like not a really good part of town and I have no money at this point and I'm like clutching these coupons because I didn't want to do it in my own neighborhood and have like people see me with coupons.
12:01
Andrea: And this woman tapped me on the shoulder and she said hi, do you remember me?
12:08
Andrea: We met at a party last week and I will never forget this woman's name.
12:13
Andrea: Her name's Cheryl Trigger.
12:15
Andrea: God love you.
12:17
Andrea: So we started chatting and you know, in the back of my mind, when I was in line, I was just hoping oh God, please don't let me go bankrupt this week, don't?
12:26
Andrea: I'm too new, you know?
12:28
Andrea: Don't?
12:28
Andrea: You know, send me something.
12:30
Andrea: You know, more clients, whatever?
12:32
Andrea: And so we're just chatting and I said to her she goes how's your dating thing going?
12:38
Andrea: And I said, oh, actually, my first match, jack and Roberta.
12:45
Andrea: I think they're gonna get married.
12:46
Andrea: I'm like, oh sure, like they're like perfect for each other.
12:50
Andrea: So I just went on and on chatting about that.
12:53
Andrea: Of course I didn't say I was I was gonna go bankrupt or anything like that.
12:57
Andrea: Um, and so I get a call that afternoon and she said you know I didn't mention this to you, but I'm a producer at CNN and we want to follow a couple out to lunch tomorrow and do a feature on you.
13:13
Andrea: I was like, oh my gosh, cnn, you know again 1990, you know it's like oh, wow.
13:21
Andrea: And you know so that's, that's how the whole thing started.
13:24
Andrea: You know it was a lot of times, you know, so that's how the whole thing started.
13:26
Andrea: You know it was a lot of times.
13:28
Andrea: You know it was perseverance, it was patience and the business started to boom.
13:34
Andrea: And From there I thought New York City would be a good market, because I had lived there for a little while prior.
13:44
Andrea: And we opened our second location in New York and from there, if we just jump 20 years forward to 2010, we had 110 locations globally.
13:57
Andrea: Wow.
13:59
Mary: That's amazing.
14:01
Mary: I think we can, and I'm going to say, especially as women, I think we can talk ourselves out of something that's very different, Like, oh, I think this is a great idea, but I don't know, it seems so out of the norm.
14:12
Mary: It seems like you just sort of went with it.
14:14
Mary: I love that you follow the newspaper delivery guy around and put this, because it's I think that's how wonderful things often start it's just having the courage to sort of really just jump in and go with it and take some chances and not let you know, cause you mentioned a couple of times the money.
14:36
Mary: You didn't let that stop you.
14:37
Mary: You're just like let's, let's try to roll with this, because you had that gut feeling that this can be a great idea.
14:44
Mary: So just real quick, because I'm thinking about how did this work?
14:48
Mary: Did people fill out paper applications and you manually matched people?
14:55
Andrea: Yeah, they would come in for an hour interview.
14:57
Andrea: We would match them.
14:59
Andrea: They wouldn't see pictures.
15:00
Andrea: An hour interview, we would match them, they wouldn't see pictures.
15:04
Andrea: And then we'd set up the date.
15:05
Andrea: You know, for example, mary and John, you're meeting on Friday at 12 o'clock at Bistro 110.
15:09
Andrea: And then, after the date, you would have to call it and give us feedback.
15:13
Andrea: So we're starting to learn more about you, we're starting to learn more about him, so we can do, you know, a better and better job of matching you, and you know it worked really well.
15:26
Andrea: Of course, you know, by the time we had all these locations, you know we had 800 employees and I was more the CEO and had to go to like board meetings and stuff, which which, if you ask me, is really boring.
15:40
Andrea: I like the startup.
15:41
Andrea: I like the energy.
15:42
Andrea: I like the energy.
15:42
Andrea: I like the client interface, I like talking to people, because I met so many people from so many walks of life.
15:51
Andrea: I remember this is a long time ago Demi Moore and Bruce Willis came into my office with their nanny and they wanted to fix her up.
16:00
Andrea: This is my New York office because she was really lonely and wanted to go home, and so here I sat with the three of them and then I would meet teachers and scientists and engineers and lawyers and doctors and I always thought this job is a blast.
16:15
Andrea: I can ask any question because I have to know about their love life.
16:19
Andrea: And I think I was a little nosy anyway in college my two college roommates I fixed them up and they're still married today.
16:27
Andrea: Wow.
16:28
Andrea: So I think I just like had this thing in me, yeah, like I like to help people and I like business, so it was like a combo thing that just worked for me.
16:38
Mary: Obviously you were good at it, but I just love hearing that story Because I think, you know, sometimes I'll have younger people listen to this show and I'm sure they're just like what?
16:48
Mary: Like putting that kind of and first of all, sitting down and filling out a form, a paper form with a pen, is probably like no, but anyway.
16:57
Mary: So I love that story and obviously you know I started in that world of just a paper newspaper and I remember circling the ads, sitting there on my bed on a Sunday morning with a Sunday newspaper, circling those ads, and that excitement.
17:11
Mary: So obviously so much has changed.
17:15
Mary: So okay, first of all, how would you sort of pinpoint all these guideposts where the landscape has changed with this kind of dating, and what trends do you see emerging now?
17:27
Andrea: OK.
17:27
Andrea: So you know, I saw the trends originally start in about the year 2000, because that's when more and more was obviously going for about three or four years now, and some online dating apps and sites and platforms had started, but they were a mess.
17:48
Andrea: They were a mess from, you know.
17:50
Andrea: It was chaotic from the people who were running them.
17:53
Andrea: This was a new thing, you know.
17:56
Andrea: Nobody knew what to do with it.
17:57
Andrea: And then the people who were signing up for it were like totally lost.
17:59
Andrea: They didn't know what to do with it.
18:00
Andrea: And then the people who were signing up for it were like totally lost.
18:02
Andrea: They didn't know what to do with it either.
18:04
Andrea: And these are people, you know, in their twenties and thirties and forties, mostly during the advent of online dating.
18:12
Andrea: Okay, we push forward to 2010, when I sold it's just lunch and there were two primary reasons I sold One my youngest daughter was born.
18:24
Andrea: Well, actually three reasons, I guess Two offers in the same week, one from matchcom and one from private equity.
18:32
Andrea: I sold to private equity.
18:34
Andrea: And then the third one was I really saw the writing on the wall Online dating was going to be big and even my clients it's just lunch they didn't understand how to use it.
18:47
Andrea: Yet and these big conglomerates like a matchcom, who owns like 30 different sites from you know, hinge to Tinder, to match, to our time, et cetera.
19:00
Andrea: They were starting to get it together.
19:03
Andrea: But then where I saw the real opportunity?
19:07
Andrea: Of course, when I started it I was in my 20s, so I worked primarily with people in their 20s and 30s.
19:13
Andrea: So now I'm in my late 40s, approaching 50.
19:18
Andrea: And I realized more and more people are getting divorced and they have no idea what to do.
19:28
Andrea: You know, when you walk down the aisle when you were 25 or 30, you never said, oh, I can't wait to do this again when I'm 55, you know, you just never thought that was going to happen, but you know it does.
19:41
Andrea: Thought that was going to happen, but you know it does.
19:43
Andrea: 40% of people end up getting divorced and that's what my whole book focuses on.
19:48
Andrea: Second acts.
19:48
Andrea: So that was the third reason I sold, because I grew up with all these online dating services and I understood them and I understood where their strengths were and where their weaknesses were them and I understood where their strengths were and where their weaknesses were.
20:05
Andrea: And you know, there's 1400 dating apps out there and I knew how to help people, because the biggest initial mistake you can make with online dating is you don't know what site to pick because there's so many of them, because there's so many of them.
20:21
Andrea: So what launched my second act?
20:23
Andrea: My next career was a year or two later.
20:27
Andrea: My brother called me and I have five younger brothers and sisters.
20:31
Andrea: So this is my brother.
20:39
Andrea: He's a year younger than me and he's the CFO of a well-known company and you know he's good looking and a nice guy and stuff.
20:43
Andrea: And he had gotten divorced like two years prior.
20:47
Andrea: And he said you know, I'm doing online dating and these women I'm meeting are awful, awful.
20:53
Andrea: They don't look like their pictures.
20:55
Andrea: They, you know, their descriptions are wrong.
20:59
Andrea: And I said okay, jim, give me your login and your password.
21:04
Andrea: And he gave it to me.
21:08
Andrea: I went in and I was like, oh, I can't believe what he posted.
21:12
Andrea: And I still say this about men, but you know, 40% of my clients are men, 60% are women.
21:17
Andrea: I'm still like I cannot believe what men post.
21:20
Andrea: You know they'll post photos of themselves, like taking a selfie in the mirror, in their bathroom or in their car or, you know, holding a fish.
21:28
Andrea: I'm like what are you guys thinking what you know?
21:32
Andrea: But no woman is attracted to this.
21:34
Andrea: So, anyway, I fix his site, I I, you know, rewrite stuff, I get new photos and a couple of weeks later he's like, hey, I'm meeting some really good women.
21:45
Andrea: And I'm like, well, thank you very much, I'm so happy, I'm so happy.
21:50
Andrea: And then it just started word of mouth.
21:54
Andrea: And at that point in time, when I started 33,000 days, which is like almost 15 years ago I had already set up over 33,000 people on dates so that's why I named it 33,000 Dates and I already had 10,000 marriages, actually 10,200 marriages, and at this point in time I've stopped counting how many people I have because I just can't keep track.
22:23
Andrea: So now what I do is I help people.
22:27
Andrea: And when you think about people like 45 to 65, especially that's the age group you know some are even widowed very young.
22:36
Andrea: Some are divorced, some are divorced, some have been single a long time, just like focusing on their career or long-term relationships gone bad, and they don't know where to start.
22:49
Andrea: And guess what happens?
22:51
Andrea: They go on a site and they give up after two weeks and it's because they're on the wrong site.
22:58
Andrea: And I'll give you an example.
23:01
Andrea: So a couple of weeks ago I had a new client from Dallas.
23:04
Andrea: She called me and I'm quizzing her and because before I take somebody as a client, I do a 15 minute call just to make sure you know I can help them.
23:15
Andrea: She said she was on a site, an app called Coffee Meets Bagel, and I said, okay, what made you pick Coffee Meets Bagel?
23:24
Andrea: Because I'm thinking nobody in Dallas uses Coffee Meets Bagel.
23:29
Andrea: And she goes oh, my best friend in New York just got engaged.
23:34
Andrea: She met him through Coffee Meets Bagel.
23:37
Andrea: And I'm like, oh, okay, that makes sense, because in LA, miami and New York City Coffee Meets Bagel is really popular.
23:47
Andrea: And I told her that I got nobody in Dallas is on that site, so that's why you're not meeting anyone.
23:53
Andrea: So you know what happens to people.
23:54
Andrea: They get super discouraged after a week or two and then they just go online dating doesn't work.
24:01
Andrea: Online dating, excuse me, sucks.
24:03
Andrea: Um and um.
24:05
Andrea: I'm I'm not going to do it.
24:07
Andrea: I mean nobody calls me on the phone and says I'm so excited to call you and talk about online dating.
24:14
Andrea: You know they're like, oh, does it really work?
24:18
Andrea: Can it work?
24:19
Andrea: And you know, when you go back to and look at data going back to 2023, one out of three marriages that took place came from online dating.
24:28
Andrea: So we are so lucky, especially the 50 and 60 year old market, and you know yourself, mary, from your own, you know personal experience it works.
24:40
Mary: Yeah, for sure.
24:40
Mary: Well, my marriage now.
24:42
Mary: We met online through a dating app.
24:43
Mary: Yeah, which app did you meet on?
24:46
Mary: We met on Matchcom.
24:48
Andrea: Oh yeah, that's a very strong app and I love their interface.
24:51
Andrea: It's very user-friendly and they have good algorithms.
24:55
Mary: Yeah, and I suspected that was some of it.
24:58
Mary: It's what site are you on?
24:59
Mary: So okay?
25:00
Mary: So I love getting into this juicy parks.
25:02
Mary: I knew this is what people want to hear.
25:04
Mary: So biggest mistakes.
25:06
Mary: You talked about being on the wrong site for where you are geographically, and is that also sort of like what are you looking for Does?
25:14
Mary: Is that how you also like choose which app or which site you use based on what outcome you want?
25:21
Andrea: choose which app or which site you use based on what outcome you want, what I do.
25:30
Andrea: Then, once I take them as a client, I do a one-hour Zoom call and we talk about what they're looking for.
25:33
Andrea: After that I'm thinking the whole time, okay, where does she or he belong?
25:37
Andrea: And then I put it into research because I'm very strategy driven, business.
25:44
Andrea: You know, I look at this in a very business-like fashion, which some people are like romance shouldn't be business oriented.
25:51
Andrea: I'm like, hey, you've got to have a strategy or you're dead.
25:54
Andrea: Yes, so then I use Hugh Gallup Nielsen Statista and of course, I pay a lot of money for their data that I get on a monthly basis.
26:09
Andrea: So what I'm able to do with these 1400 dating apps, and I know which ones are the top 50, you know, it's not like I have to go through all those apps and what I can plug in is where they live, level of education, the percentage of men versus women on the site.
26:33
Andrea: For example, mary, you use Matchcom.
26:36
Andrea: Matchcom, on average, has 75 to 80% men versus women.
26:43
Andrea: Yeah, so you know that was a very good choice.
26:47
Andrea: So, and sometimes women will pick a site that's very heavy female, so that's the wrong way to go.
26:55
Andrea: So this way I'm able to guide them, not just with my gut, which is probably 50% of it, but the other 50% is hardcore research that I do and make sure you know, even from a little town, you know, in Michigan, to a large city like Miami, I can figure out okay, this makes the most sense for you.
27:18
Andrea: Then the next problem we get into challenge we get into is their photos, because it's a very visual medium and if you don't have great photos I mean great photos, I don't mean filtered, I don't mean super edited, I don't mean your LinkedIn photos, I mean like photos of you in action.
27:37
Andrea: You're into pickleball, you're into tennis, you're into hiking.
27:39
Andrea: I don't mean your LinkedIn photos, I mean like photos of you in action.
27:42
Andrea: You know you're into pickleball, you're into tennis, you're into hiking.
27:45
Andrea: I want some photos like that you actively, you know doing these things, with nice lighting, where you look good Like.
27:53
Andrea: I don't want a picture of you on the side of a mountain with your helmet on and your goggles on while you're skiing.
28:01
Andrea: I want to see you and because a picture paints a thousand words and you can just really see what this person is if they're action oriented.
28:16
Andrea: Or I have one woman who she's an author and she just loves to read.
28:17
Andrea: Or I have one woman who she's an author and she just loves to read and we shot most of her pictures at a big bookstore in New York at the Strand, where it was really cute Some of the photos she took and the little cafe there and stuff.
28:32
Andrea: So you have to have the right pictures.
28:34
Andrea: Now the whole thing with AI I love AI, but the way some clients are trying to overuse it right now by putting their photos into AI and then they come out looking like cartoon characters and you can tell right away if a bio or photos were AI generated.
28:56
Andrea: So you don't want to use AI for that.
28:59
Andrea: I write the profiles for my clients and I keep in mind that men don't read.
29:06
Andrea: They're going to look at your photos and then they're going to skim really fast.
29:13
Andrea: So you got to.
29:13
Andrea: You have to write it in bullet points and it's got to be short, no big long paragraphs.
29:19
Andrea: And then the next issue we're really getting to is the messaging part, because, okay, now you're on the right site, you've got great photos, you've got a great bio, now you have to message.
29:35
Andrea: And men's number one complaint is they get a heart or a like from a woman and that's it.
29:45
Andrea: No message, that's it.
29:47
Andrea: And men are just like wait, she just like kind of kicked the ball back in my court Right now.
29:54
Andrea: I have to do all the work.
29:55
Andrea: Well, why wouldn't she send me a message?
29:57
Andrea: And men find messages, they show self-confidence and that's very sexy to men.
30:05
Andrea: Women not in their fifties so much, or forties, because they'll actively choose men and reach out to men, but their sixties I get pushed back like oh, I'm online now and I'm just going to sit here and then there'll be like I didn't have any dates last week, andrea, and I'll be like okay, how many messages they have?
30:30
Andrea: This track?
30:30
Andrea: You see, they have to fill out.
30:32
Andrea: Um, how many messages did you send?
30:34
Andrea: Sending messages they should reach out to me?
30:38
Andrea: And I'm like you're not in the fifties, you're not.
30:41
Andrea: You know, this is the 2020s and this is the way the game works and it's a numbers game.
30:49
Andrea: And this is the way the game works and it's a numbers game.
30:53
Andrea: Yeah, and you can be super successful online if you're playing it right, and it's got to be.
30:56
Andrea: You know, you mentioned earlier I think we were still off camera where you know you would get messages like hey, what's up, hey, how are you, hey, how's your weekend.
31:06
Andrea: There's no thought going into those messages.
31:09
Andrea: There's no way I really believe he read my profile or he has interest in me, or you'll see some that are longer.
31:20
Andrea: There'll be two or three sentences that are so generic.
31:23
Andrea: You know they're like a cut and paste.
31:25
Andrea: You know they're just sending the same thing to everyone.
31:29
Andrea: So I like to say, keep your messages to two or three sentences, just two or three sentences, and make it quirky.
31:39
Andrea: And by quirky I don't mean weird, but I mean something that makes you stand out from the rest of the pack.
31:49
Andrea: For example, I had this one male client and he's like, really like Wall Street-y and you know the suit, the tie, the whole Wall Street persona and one of the photos he sent me I almost fainted, it was so funny.
32:06
Andrea: He is standing on Wall Street, you can see the Wall Street sign behind him and he's juggling pomegranates and it was just such a hysterical picture that it was so easy for women you know to comment on, like whoa, a Wall Street guy who's also a juggler, you know and jump into like a couple more questions.
32:31
Andrea: You know about that, like you know, did you run away to the circus when you were 15 and learn, learn these skills.
32:37
Andrea: You know you can make the messages fun and they should never be brusque or too pointed.
32:45
Andrea: I get that from my New York and LA clients.
32:47
Andrea: You know they'll write a message like you seem cute, you want to have a drink.
32:51
Andrea: Like really there's no warmth, there's no personality there.
32:58
Andrea: So you've got to say something outstanding.
33:02
Andrea: And the more you practice, that's why my clients have homework each week where I give them a set amount of time and a set number of messages they have to send three times a week and a trapping sheet.
33:18
Andrea: So I'm watching their messages and, you know, helping them learn from their messages what works, what doesn't work.
33:26
Andrea: Now, on average people you know think oh, I sent, you know, three messages.
33:31
Andrea: I'm going to get three dates.
33:32
Andrea: No, you're not, nope, you know it's.
33:36
Andrea: It's typically one in five that will respond back to you.
33:39
Andrea: I mean, if you're writing good messages and then the next pitfall is suddenly you have a text buddy and you don't need a text buddy, you know a couple of texts back and forth are fine, and then set up the date.
33:55
Andrea: If you both live, you know, within 20, 30 minutes of each other.
33:59
Andrea: That's easy, right?
34:00
Andrea: So set up the date.
34:03
Andrea: I am not a fan of phone talking before the dates, unless they're like a phenomenal match and they live two hours away.
34:13
Andrea: Then I would say, do a 10 minute chat beforehand, because he's going to be driving a long way, or you're going to be each driving an hour, or however it's going to work.
34:24
Andrea: And I'll tell you why I don't like phone.
34:26
Andrea: One of two things will happen with the phone.
34:29
Andrea: Either you'll have this great conversation and then your expectations are like sky high.
34:38
Andrea: You can't wait.
34:39
Andrea: This is going to be great.
34:40
Andrea: And just last week I had Julie, one of my clients.
34:43
Andrea: She's like Andrea.
34:45
Andrea: I've called like three of my girlfriends.
34:47
Andrea: I've found him this is the guy I'm going to marry and I go tell me about the date.
34:51
Andrea: And she goes, oh, we haven't gone on one yet.
34:53
Andrea: I'm like, oh, no, no, no.
34:58
Andrea: Or the opposite happens.
35:01
Andrea: You have a phone call and the phone call is kind of like drudgery.
35:06
Andrea: It's, you know, kind of boring and this might've been the exact man for you and he might just not be good on the phone.
35:19
Andrea: So if he looks good otherwise, like that's why I don't want you to go into the date with high expectations.
35:26
Andrea: I don't want you to go in with low.
35:28
Andrea: I want you to go in with zero expectations.
35:32
Andrea: Like this is information gathering.
35:34
Andrea: I'm going to meet somebody new and we'll take it from there, and my only thought's going to be at the end of the day, do I want to go on a second date with him?
35:44
Mary: Yeah, and you brought up so many important things in that answer, because I think the one thing that's really hard and I worked in college with college students for a long time and they would be on Tinder or they would be on Bumble or and they would take this so personally when they would message and they would get ignored.
36:04
Mary: So I like that you said I think it was one in five messages will get an answer, and that's what was hard for me.
36:12
Mary: I think initially, when I was younger, I would take that personally, Like, okay, I read your profile, I took the time to write something that actually was related to what's in your profile and I would get nothing like no response.
36:26
Mary: And I think people make the mistake of thinking that that's personal, that oh, there's something wrong with me.
36:33
Mary: So you did touch on this, but what do you think the role of mindset and confidence is in this whole process and how do you help clients with that?
36:43
Andrea: Oh, that's the very first thing I do.
36:45
Andrea: So mindset, where is their head at?
36:50
Andrea: And that for me, begins with the initial phone call, that 15 minute screening call, where I talk to them and I'm really listening for attitude and what they have to say, like if right away they're like my ex was a narcissist.
37:08
Andrea: We had a custody battle for years.
37:11
Andrea: He took so much from me.
37:13
Andrea: I'm thinking this woman is so not ready to date because I'm a perfect stranger and she is telling me all this.
37:21
Andrea: She cannot date yet.
37:23
Andrea: And you know, I'll tell them at the end I think you need a little more time.
37:28
Andrea: On the other hand, sometimes people call me and they'll say you know, I've been in therapy, you know getting over a death or a divorce or a breakup, and I'll say, oh, what does your therapist think about you calling me?
37:44
Andrea: And if they say my therapist thinks it's the best thing I could do, then I'm like done, I'm going to take her.
37:51
Andrea: If they say my therapist is like against this, but I don't really care, I want to do this, I won't take them because I figure the therapist probably knows something.
38:03
Andrea: So what I'll say at the end of the call is I'll say you know, think about this a little bit longer.
38:09
Andrea: I've been doing this for 32 years.
38:11
Andrea: I'm going to be here in a month.
38:12
Andrea: I'm going to be here in a year.
38:13
Andrea: I'm going to be here in six months.
38:15
Andrea: When you're ready, I'm ready.
38:17
Andrea: So go back to your original question.
38:19
Andrea: Mindset my book, second Axe Winning Strategies for Dating Over 50, it's no psychobabble, I mean.
38:28
Andrea: It is straight to strategy.
38:31
Andrea: It has 15 worksheets and 15 QR codes, so you can scan the QR code and I'll walk you through that worksheet.
38:40
Andrea: My very first worksheet is where's your head at?
38:43
Andrea: And you answer 10 questions and it's going to make you think like can I go on a date without ranting?
38:51
Andrea: Can I do this?
38:53
Andrea: How do I feel about this?
38:55
Andrea: Am I a little bit excited, a little bit nervous?
38:59
Andrea: You know it's going to ask you those right questions to see where you're at with this whole thing, where you're at with this whole thing and the worksheets.
39:13
Andrea: I want them to work through the worksheets in order, because there's one that's just on your brand, because we all have a brand.
39:20
Andrea: You have a brand, I have a brand, we're on Instagram, we're on Facebook, we might be on other things LinkedIn and we've established a brand for ourselves.
39:29
Andrea: And online.
39:31
Andrea: You are also establishing a brand and you want to think about what kind of brand do you want to portray online?
39:38
Andrea: That's another thing to think about and then jump forward.
39:42
Andrea: I'm not going to talk about 15 more issues, but the last one I really love and people like roll their eyes at me about this last worksheet.
39:51
Andrea: The last worksheet in the book is business plan for your personal life, for your love life, for romance, and people are like what I have to do this?
40:02
Andrea: You know I have to make it businesslike and I say it's really not businesslike.
40:07
Andrea: It's thinking through your strategy.
40:11
Andrea: Who are my competition?
40:13
Andrea: What age range do I want to date?
40:16
Andrea: How am I going to get out there and market myself?
40:20
Andrea: How comfortable am I with the way I look right now?
40:24
Andrea: Do I need a new hairstyle?
40:26
Andrea: Do I need to get a little fitter?
40:29
Andrea: Do I need to you know, go get a manicure.
40:32
Andrea: Do I need to go get a facial?
40:34
Andrea: Do I need a dating wardrobe?
40:36
Andrea: Yes, you do.
40:37
Andrea: You absolutely do, and I love Nordstrom for it's free and you know you don't have to buy anything.
40:46
Andrea: But you're going to go in and tell them hey, and I'm going to gear this toward women right now You're going to go to Nordstrom and say, hey, I want three dating outfits.
40:58
Andrea: I'm just starting to date again and I don't want to look like an old lady.
41:04
Andrea: I don't want to look like a 20 year old and, by the way, when I pick a personal shopper, I will always go for about a 35 year old, because she's not going to push them toward, you know, young stuff and she's not going to push them to old lady stuff.
41:22
Andrea: She's going to have like a much better centered view of what will be appealing on a date.
41:30
Andrea: And you know what that does it gives you confidence.
41:33
Mary: Because I think, too, we look to women sometimes to sort of validate our fashion choices.
41:39
Mary: So when you're pairing with someone who knows this, if that's an area where you're not feeling quite confident, I think that can help a lot because you have somebody confident.
41:49
Mary: I think that can help a lot because you have somebody helping you craft that and you know the whole thing is so interesting, the strategy that you use, because I just talked to somebody in episode 21, and she's writing a book about using kind of a business plan in your marriage and she says what you say about dating, that you know it's supposed to be romantic and you know, when you have a successful partnership with someone, you know that there's a lot of very basic communication rules and all of the things that we want to sort of put to the side because it's not romantic.
42:25
Mary: That's where I think we run into some trouble.
42:27
Mary: So you've really made this a very structured and strategic plan to go about dating, which I really love that You've given such great suggestions and concrete tips.
42:40
Mary: So, first of all, people reentering the dating world.
42:44
Mary: As we said, after a loss or after a long relationship that didn't end up working out, or after 50, there are unique things, unique mindset things, I think that have to be addressed with women that are older, and you've really covered a lot of that.
42:59
Andrea: Yes, and one more thing that I just add a personal story about me.
43:05
Andrea: I was married for 24 years and I got divorced and I didn't date for a couple of years.
43:11
Andrea: And then, of course, where did I go?
43:14
Andrea: I jumped on to online dating and, yes, I took my youngest daughter to Nordstrom with me and, you know, tried on clothes and had a personal shopper and a couple of things personal shopper brought me.
43:27
Andrea: I was like, oh, I'm never wearing that and my daughter's like, mom, that's really cute.
43:32
Andrea: And now I find those are like my most popular dating outfits.
43:36
Andrea: And then the other thing is this is really hard.
43:41
Andrea: You have to develop a thick skin and if I could sell a thick skins to people, I'd be like a billionaire, because we get our feelings hurt so easily from rejection.
43:53
Andrea: And I remember this one man that I picked out and I think I was on Bumble and I was like, oh, he's perfect for me, he lives in Palm Beach.
44:03
Andrea: Everything clicked and I wrote him what I thought was a super great message.
44:08
Andrea: Never heard from him and I was like shocked.
44:11
Andrea: So I know how all of you feel.
44:16
Andrea: You know.
44:16
Andrea: I know exactly how you feel Because I've lived it.
44:21
Andrea: You know I've lived it twice, being dumped.
44:23
Andrea: And then you know, a long marriage that ended, thank God, fairly amicably.
44:29
Andrea: And then, two years ago, I met my husband online and we got married in the fall in Italy.
44:37
Mary: Wow, that's great.
44:39
Mary: Well, and I think it is important to know that we are also dealing with another human being, so you can do all the planning you want, but sometimes things run their course.
44:48
Mary: So I think it's having that sense of, like openness and adventure and you know, I know I got to the point where I was like it's one date, I'm just going to go with an open mind and just see what happens, and mindset idea is so important, but also having a strategy.
45:07
Mary: So, andrea, I loved our talk today.
45:10
Mary: Thank you so much for being here, and can you tell us one more time the name of your book and where people can find it?
45:16
Andrea: Sure, it's called Second Acts Winning Strategies for Dating Over 50.
45:22
Andrea: And you can go on my website.
45:24
Andrea: It's at Amazon and anywhere else you shop for books.
45:28
Andrea: My website is 33,000datescom and it's 33000datescom.
45:36
Andrea: And the other thing I would say when you go to my website, another good thing to do is there's a dating quiz on there and it's free.
45:45
Andrea: Take the dating quiz, because it's going to show you how you stack up against my clients who have met people and are in successful relationships or marriages, and it'll give you a really good feeling for where you're at.
46:03
Mary: Okay, excellent, and of course, I will link all of these in the show notes so you guys don't have to write all that down.
46:08
Mary: So I will have it in the show notes and thanks again, andrea, and I want to thank all of you for listening.
46:14
Mary: If you have comments on today's show, please let me know.
46:18
Mary: You can text me.
46:19
Mary: There's a link in the show notes.
46:20
Mary: And, if you love listening, consider leaving a review, because that's actually a powerful way to help other people find me and hear all my amazing guests.
46:29
Mary: And finally, if you'd like to join my email community and get my weekly musings on how nature and my garden give me lessons about life, click the link in the show notes to sign up and until next time, go out into the world and be the amazing, resilient, vibrant violet that you are.
46:44
Mary: Thank you,