Latest / Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship / #158 - You Need an Older or Younger Friend: August Friendship Challenge (Liz Alterman)

Transcript

#158 - You Need an Older or Younger Friend: August Friendship Challenge (Liz Alterman) · Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: are only chance of meeting somebody older or younger and having this beautiful addition to your life, which is what it is, is by trying something new because you're not going to meet somebody just sitting in your house.
• 0:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to meet someone just doing the same old thing all the time.
• 0:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: You've got to do something different.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Dear Nina Conversations About Friendship.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am your host, Nina Badson.
• 0:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have been writing about friendship for over a decade, podcasting about it for over four years now.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Officially, I started in July of twenty twenty one with the podcast.
• 0:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now we are summer of twenty twenty five.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are well over halfway through our twenty twenty five friendship challenge.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am not going to go over all the other challenges this time.
• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've done that in past episodes.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I will have that in the show notes though.
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to take a quick peek, there will be easy links to listen to the past challenges or at least see what they were about.
• 0:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: The August challenge is all about intergenerational friendships or mixed aged friendship.
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: We could call them
• 1:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Either way, because there is a technical number for what counts as a different generation.
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to get bogged down in ten years apart or twelve years or fifteen or just five or eight years apart.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: The point is having a friend who is not your exact age and stage has so much value for both parties.
• 1:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: The younger friend and the older friend.
• 1:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And in my own life, I have that and have benefited from it.
• 1:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am the younger friend in some cases and I'm the older friend in some cases.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Fifteen years is the threshold for considering it in a generational way.
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think I have a friend who is more than twelve years older or more than twelve years younger.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do have it in the ten year.
• 1:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, I will need to follow my own advice.
• 1:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I always follow my own advice.
• 1:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Most of the time these challenges are first and foremost for me, because I do this work also for me to be a better friend, to have better friends.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I will not be the only one talking about these mixed-aged friendships on this episode.
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am thrilled to be joined by Liz Alterman.
• 2:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: She is the author of the award-winning memoir, Sad Saft.
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's written multiple thrillers too, a completely different genre.
• 2:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the reason I am having her on is because her most recent book is a romantic comedy called Claire Casey's Had Enough.
• 2:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it includes an intergenerational friendship between a forty six year old and a seventy eight year old.
• 2:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: They inspire one another to remember the women they once wear and the dreams they still hope to fulfill.
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Those are Liz's words.
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I loved that.
• 2:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's welcome Liz to talk to us about why we need a friend like this in our lives, and why it is worthy of being one of the twelve monthly challenges.
• 2:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't have many, only twelve, and this is going to be one of them.
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's how important it is.
• 2:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi Liz, welcome to Dear Nina.
• 2:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I need to thank you so much for having me.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Since your most recent book, like I mentioned in the intro, Claire Casey's had enough includes a friendship between a forty six year old and a seventy eight year old, I wanted to start there.
• 3:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why you chose that friendship?
• 3:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just tell me more about it and then we'll get to real life.
• 3:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: But let's start there.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me a little bit about this fictional relationship.
• 3:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thanks for asking.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's sort of developed almost as a surprise for Claire.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's her friend who lived down the street.
• 3:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually her mom.
• 3:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: who has unfortunately fallen down some stairs and it's sort of recuperating from that, just down the block.
• 3:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Claire's friend needs to work in her office on Thursdays.
• 3:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so she's asked, Claire, please just pop in.
• 3:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't make it look like you're checking up on her.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Say you're there for a bowl of sugar or something.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then of course, Claire, she's a busy mom with her own job and always volunteering, get all the demands that we all face.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: But over time, she begins confiding in D.A.
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: and these confides back in her.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of this story focuses on Claire having those what if moments are just questioning where she is in life.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, no matter where we are, we tend to always idealize people who are older and think that they have it all figured out.
• 4:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what she learns is that B also has the unfinished business.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the past, and even though she's reached seven, eight years old,
• 4:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: She wants to go back to her home.
• 4:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: She wants to be independent.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But her daughter is kind of like, hey, we're going to sell your house.
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to move in here.
• 4:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's the two women's bond over, like, how does we get here?
• 4:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And how do we get back to the dreams that we once held?
• 4:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so they kind of inspire each other in listening to each other's stories.
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're, they're, they're not like Estalma and Louise come home.
• 4:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And but they do go on a little journey together at the end of the book.
• 4:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to spoil anything.
• 4:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It really is how each one opens the other's eyes to, you know, we're not stuck in these situations.
• 4:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: We can do something about it and wondering isn't necessarily the answer we need to take some action.
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: That sounds so great.
• 4:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait to read it.
• 4:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And was it based on any friendship in your real life?
• 4:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have to say it's not, but I am very fortunate to have a few friends who are in, I think maybe like, twenty to thirty years older than I am, who I find very inspirational in all sorts of ways.
• 5:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're very accomplished, but also they, they kind of know what they want at this point and what they don't want.
• 5:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I really draw inspiration from that.
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is fantastic and I'm going to want to hear more about that because the AARP defines an intergenerational friendship as fifteen years or more and I didn't even actually know that was the technical how they consider it because I thought I had an intergenerational friendship.
• 5:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't even know if I would have called the intergenerational, I maybe would call it mixed age.
• 5:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: So tell me about your couple of friends who twenty some years is, did you say thirty years?
• 5:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, well, I think pretty close to thirty for one.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I have to say how I don't want to say I found her, but I was very fortunate to connect with her a few probably all ten years ago.
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was writing an article for the Muse, which is a career site and I needed an expert on networking.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just in Google search and Amazon and looking for best-selling authors,
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I happened to pot in the absolute treasure Susan Rowan who wrote the best selling how to work a room and she sold over a million copies.
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's been in fourteen countries and it's funny because with journalism sometimes if you don't kind of force through it back right away you move along.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: You have to find somebody else you've got a deadline to hit but I just love to be perfect for this.
• 6:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I sent an email and I didn't hear back and
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: My deadline was approaching, and I had maybe watched her on YouTube, where it's the articles.
• 6:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was so smitten with her personality.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's from Chicago.
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's hilarious too.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's just something to be worth.
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I forwarded my email and just don't mean to bother you, but if you're interested, and she got back to me right away, and she said, I'm so sorry, this is the first one landed in my spam folder.
• 6:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: How is today?
• 6:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: We just connected over that phone call, and so she's out in California.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm in New Jersey.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever she comes to New York, she's been so kind and gracious.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: She will invite me to her networking dinners and she's introduced to me to so many people.
• 7:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then she and I have had lunches, dinners together, now we zoom to catch up with one another.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's hysterical.
• 7:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So she has been through, you know, the good and the bad of publishing and she's not afraid to with her humor, just lay it out there bare.
• 7:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like how she sees it, what she's doing next,
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she's truly valued for time.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is something that I think maybe because of her wisdom and experience.
• 7:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, I know I'm not doing that.
• 7:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not.
• 7:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: My time is valuable.
• 7:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's worth more than that.
• 7:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not doing it.
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that's the lesson that I need in my own life.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I just love when I talk with her.
• 7:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's got boundless energy and it's truly she's an inspiration.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: One thing I read about these kind of friendships and your friendship you just described does hit on this.
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is hard to avoid and sound a bad thing.
• 7:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you just acknowledge it.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Some what of a mentor meant to dynamic, right?
• 8:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like if they're we're talking thirty years, twenty years or to the ARP definition, fifteen years.
• 8:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is going to be a little bit of I have something to teach you and on the other side, I have something to learn.
• 8:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess I would say thinking about it instead of pretending that's not true and avoiding it and pretending like you're in the exact same stage, use the age difference to the advantage.
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: We lot of us have plenty of friends our own age, so if we don't need to pretend that this person's also our own age, we'll be the point.
• 8:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, I totally agree.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that's kind of reciprocal in that she will
• 8:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: say to me, we were talking about conferences.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: She was saying, you know, I haven't really gotten a lot of value out of any cost.
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is why I've attended lately.
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are there any that you'd recommend?
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said to her last spring, I went to the Irma Bombach writer's conference in Dayton, Ohio.
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she right away was like, tell me more, this is right up my alley.
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because she's saying, you know, maybe I don't want to write another book, but I would be open to short, humor pieces or something different.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So now we're going to meet there next April.
• 9:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm so excited.
• 9:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she's saying, all right, I've got this on my calendar.
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm ready to go.
• 9:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she tells me when I have a book coming out, think outside the box.
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't just say, I'm going to be at this bookstore for a signing or something.
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, really make it special, offer people a little something different.
• 9:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she just has really great ideas based on her own experiences.
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she's willing to share.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: what worked, what didn't work, and I tried to do the same for her.
• 9:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think because we're at different stages and just at different places in our lives, just to have that different perspective that neither one of us might get from a peer is really valuable.
• 9:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we always come away from our calls, energize with new ideas of how to move forward.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's such a good point.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: It does go both ways.
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because you probably have, I mean, this is really stereotyping.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if I'm wrong, it tells me, but you probably have somewhat of a different relationship with social media and technology, then she might have just based on experience.
• 10:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so you might have something to teacher.
• 10:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you could learn from someone much younger than you as well.
• 10:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 10:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will say she is out there.
• 10:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's she's on all these different thing.
• 10:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she is funny to you because she's saying, you know,
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: with the political climate.
• 10:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, what have I got to lose?
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not shying away from speaking my mind.
• 10:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's hysterical and I love just the freedom that a lot of tech people are afraid to voice their opinion or to stand up for what they believe in the world.
• 10:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like she's kind of like, you know what?
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am who I am and I'm owning it and I really admire that.
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is something I get from friends even ten or more years older than I am is more of a push that they push me more to stop worrying so much for other people think in general on all topics and all topics and that that's my personal Achilles heel as you know being a people pleaser and I do think there seems to be a theme as people get older and I think I've tried to help other people with it too even though because I'm only one inch better at it maybe than someone younger
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: of letting go of that stuff.
• 11:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was on a walk recently with the friend who's quite a bit younger.
• 11:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: She was talking about something exactly the kind of thing I would have worried about and still probably voice sometimes.
• 11:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: But hearing her say it, I was like, oh, that's so not going to matter.
• 11:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I promise you.
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the thing you think it is.
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was able to see it more clearly.
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, of course, she sells to go through it and I've had friends be able to say that to me too.
• 11:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: This won't matter to you when you're sixty when you're, you know, and I'm glad.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like having a crystal ball and like, thank you.
• 11:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I hope you're right.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: One piece of advice I got from my younger friend, she's more than ten years younger than me.
• 11:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think I kept trying attention to our age difference.
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was one who would make comments about it, you know, self-deprecating things about, you know, having to get my hair colored every almost three and a half weeks now, I can barely make it four weeks.
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Things like that, because I'm in my late forties, she's in her late thirties.
• 11:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe we're just ten years apart.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: My kids are quite a bit older and I don't know.
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would always come up and it would be because of me.
• 11:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: She'd never brought it up.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, she said to me that it was very good advice and I would pass it on to other people who are the older person and a next age friendship.
• 12:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: She said to me, I like you.
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like being friends with you.
• 12:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't need to keep bringing up our age difference.
• 12:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Something along those lines.
• 12:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like she was like assuring me that we are friends.
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like we're friends.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like Nina we're friends.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can stop kind of joking about your age.
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like you're drawing attention to it.
• 12:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's you mean, I have a younger friend.
• 12:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's probably in her late thirty.
• 12:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just started fifty four.
• 12:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are times where I almost don't want to come off like a vampire reliant.
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to stuck her youthful energy out of her because and I don't want to bring it up.
• 12:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then for example, sometimes we'll be out of lunch.
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, I got to get back to school fast or you know, different things that I haven't thought about in a while.
• 12:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then when it does pop up, I'm like, oh my gosh, I wonder if she feels like she's not in her grandmother.
• 12:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is hard not to sometimes feel funny about it.
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: The different stage I think could work for these friendships and against it depends what point of view you're coming from.
• 12:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: One thing that came up a little bit in the Facebook group is this idea that your older friend might be available for you in a way that your peers aren't.
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Your peers maybe don't have to be at the school bus or maybe you don't have kids.
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: and perhaps some of your friends are starting to have kids.
• 13:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the worst idea to go either a lot older or a lot younger if you are not finding peers who don't have kids.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you might need to like look for someone who's kids have moved out or someone who is younger and doesn't have kids and maybe never will.
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not that you can't be friends with people who have kids in a mixed situation like that, but things come up.
• 13:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it isn't a show.
• 13:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: The point that was being made is that while it might be great to be the person who is more free time, it's like you don't want to always be the person who's bending around the person who doesn't.
• 13:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Have as much free time, but that is part of what happens in these relationships.
• 13:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is why we have to have diversity in our friendships of age and stage.
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want everybody to have the same issues that come up in the schedule and like the no one's available.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I was going to say.
• 13:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know sometimes you'll get these groups text and it goes on and on.
• 13:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody can meet on the same night because everybody has different obligations or you want to take a friend to the concert or show or no one's available because everybody has a different conflict.
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: So other than like a network in situation, which is where you met your friend, how have you heard from others who have heard about your book, let's say, or like know about your friendship, your actual real life friendship, where people meeting their mixed age friends these days?
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great question.
• 14:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will also say, I feel like for me a lot goes back to writing.
• 14:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I took a memoir workshop years ago.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have friends, one is in her sixties, other, he's in his seventies.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we still meet her lunch periodically.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, we know all about each other.
• 14:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, I have of course because we were sharing excerpts from memoirs.
• 14:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: You get close very fast and you know intimate details, you might not otherwise know.
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we've stayed close and of course we catch up on each other's lives and families but then we also check in on each other's writing.
• 14:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is really nice and we try to support each other.
• 15:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: My one friend he is coming out in the fall and so either we'll rally around and support him however we can.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think through that's a great question.
• 15:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was probably hobby based things.
• 15:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I would guess and I know
• 15:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: my friend who's younger, where I was saying, I hope I'm not trying to, to soak them all.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And for you to still energy, she actually, when I had a book come out, she and her husband came to a reading.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it turns out she is a poet.
• 15:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we have a lot in common our love for books.
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so when we get together, we'll talk about, you know, what have you read lately.
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I felt like we bonded over our love of bookstores.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I often joke
• 15:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's really new to New Jersey, but I think she should be like our official ambassador.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've lived here my whole life and she has been far more places than I have.
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I feel like I'm also learning from her.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, she'll post a gorgeous photo on Instagram and I'm like, oh, I've been meaning to get there for twenty or thirty years.
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so she inspires me that way.
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I feel like on the flip side, she'll kind of pick my green.
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, how did you find an editor for that or how did you find an agent?
• 16:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm trying to share any with them, but I can.
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do find that I love sharing parenting with younger friends, whether they want it or not, because everything seems so massively urgent when you're in the middle of it.
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not just parenting, you know, in all topics.
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And even in writing, some of my older friends, I have also met through, they're not that much older than at all.
• 16:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're talking probably eight to twelve years.
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've got also through writing and writing groups.
• 16:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess that speaks to our hobby point and they've helped me on
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Also parenting stuff and writing stuff and even though I'm actually the leader in this situation.
• 16:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I run the writing group with my friend Julie.
• 16:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and Julie and I are ten years apart.
• 16:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think of us as intergenerational because that seems like such a heavy word, but we definitely are mixed age.
• 17:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: One fun thing is we each have four kids and her youngest is the same age as my oldest.
• 17:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes we have overlapping things in common that our kids went to college around the same time, but she'd already been through it
• 17:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: three times and she's going through last as I'm going through first but we're still each going through something somewhat similar and now I have that on the flip side I just highly recommended to people it's like it would just go out and meet an older younger friend but I think something Liz and I are about getting it is if you put yourself in a situation where you might meet somebody who's at different age you still have to do something and that's the theme of all of my episodes
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: So with Susan for example, you had this great phone call, but still something had to happen after that.
• 17:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Something I really try to urge people a lot.
• 17:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: These things do not just magically come to be.
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody makes a move.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody receives the move, makes the move back.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Someone doesn't keep track.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe someone makes the move three times in a row and doesn't say, well, she didn't really text back right away and then give up.
• 17:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to keep going.
• 18:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody has to be brave.
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
• 18:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think so too.
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I make the first move like do you want to meet in person?
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to go out for lunch?
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to take a walk if they're nearby?
• 18:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love your recent episode on traveling, like taking a far trip because it's true.
• 18:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's down time.
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why not make different plans for how you're going to spend that time together?
• 18:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is unchanging the venue of how you're doing.
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, this is referring to his the May challenge.
• 18:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the May challenge my advice was, and it was one of people's favorites of all the monthly challenges was to change how you hang out with a friend.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it was less about making a new friend, which can be sort of exhausting, but it's sort of acknowledging who's already in your life.
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you just change where or how you communicate or how you hang out, it really could deepen the friendship.
• 18:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if it's somebody from a writing group or pickleball or whatever else you're doing or a community organization that you just got like you have good chemistry and some
• 18:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: capacity, just could tell that you'd like their vibe, you still have to do something to deepen that friendship.
• 18:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then doing something may be as simple as asking someone who you go to these community meetings with for their phone number, so that you could text here and there.
• 19:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't seem like a big deal, but that's enough of a change that that could lead to a coffee or a walk or something else.
• 19:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I guess the one that stuck out to me, because I feel like I'm often running errands and I was thinking it would be so much fun.
• 19:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: to just grab a friend instead of me listening to an audio book in the car or if I like have a real-life buddy in there and be like okay I've got to go here here if you need anything you know especially we're always out running to one grocery store post office or something why not think of friend and then you know grab a coffee while you're in the middle of it so
• 19:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm accepting the challenge.
• 19:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
• 19:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Liz, I think what we're both saying is, yes, people need a friend who's younger and a friend who's older.
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you can only have one, it doesn't matter which way, but they are different.
• 19:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is different to be the younger one in this mixed age friendship and the older one.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think in an ideal world, you would get the chance to be in both positions, do you agree?
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
• 19:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel so fortunate because I just think it opens your world to you and your perspective and
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: On both ends, I see my younger friend with her energy and her vitality, and as she goes through different milestones with her kids, like, and I'm not that nostalgic or sentimental of a person, but it just kind of reminded me of the existence of similar times.
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I try enough to ever say to her the old, like, it goes so fast.
• 20:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm making note of it in my head that, you know, next time I see my kids, I'm gonna, I swear when I get home from hanging out with her, I'm gonna try to really appreciate it.
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just how fast time does go.
• 20:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then,
• 20:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: On the other side, my friends who are older, who I guess have that sense of urgency about what they want to accomplish and that they're not going to let anything stand in their way.
• 20:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or they're not, and as you said, they're not going to worry about what people think they're going to do it their way and use the wisdom that they've gained every time to first do what really matters.
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a two-part reminder.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to sum it up, but I think you summed it up and then glad you did.
• 21:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go out there and join different things.
• 21:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually advice for just your friendships in general.
• 21:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: You all know if you've listened to other episodes that you'd never do general episodes.
• 21:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is about intergenerational friendships, but it's still just good friendship advice.
• 21:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: These are friendship muscles that you need to use and you need to practice reaching out to people.
• 21:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: You need to practice trying different things in different places, trying different activities.
• 21:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: It may be that you leave this new activity with someone your own age, but
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's good too.
• 21:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: At least you're out there.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're trying and you're only chance of meeting somebody older or younger and having this beautiful addition to your life, which is what it is, is by trying something new because you're not going to meet somebody just sitting in your house.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to meet someone just doing the same old thing all the time.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: You've got to do something different.
• 21:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's almost like a combo and a reminder for people to check out that May episode.
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll link it here about changing the venue and it may just be that you have to go by yourself to change the venue so that you meet somebody different and who's a different age.
• 21:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's great advice.
• 21:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Liz, thank you for being here.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to have all the information on your latest novel and all your novels because I know you are quite a prolific writer.
• 22:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: You may know you've listened to a few episodes that I'm going to say right now.
• 22:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Come back next week when our friendships are going well.
• 22:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are happier all around.
• 22:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you Nina.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hello listeners, huge favor to ask of you if you have been enjoying this podcast.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I will do if you would share it with a friend.
• 22:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is truly the best way to spread the word.
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you have time to leave a review on Apple, that is wonderful or to leave five stars on Apple or Spotify, that's great.
• 22:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're going to just do one thing to help out the show because it has helped you in some way, sharing it with a friend is the best.
• 22:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just so appreciate that I love having the community here that is growing.
• 22:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for considering that for a great week.