Latest / Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson / Ep 16: Terri Kuebler - Insights on Life

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Ep 16: Terri Kuebler - Insights on Life · Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson

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  Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Live Free Ride Free, where we talk to people who
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  have lived self-actualized lives on their own terms, and find out how they
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  got there, what they do, how we can get there, what we can learn from them.
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  How to live our best lives, find our own definition of success,
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  and most importantly, find joy.
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  I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.
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  New York Times bestselling author of the Horse Boy.
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  Founder of New Trails Learning Systems and long ride home.com.
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  You can find details of all our programs and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.
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  Welcome back to live free ride free.
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  Today we are going to Look behind the scenes of the hollywood movies that
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  you've been watching over the decades where Animals show up and do incredible
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  things and you take it for granted when you're watching because you're just
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  into the story But of course, there's a person often teams of people making sure
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  that that You Process with the animals.
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  works and that's not easy because you don't just give
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  them a script and they follow.
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  Terry Keebler has spent a life in this industry in Hollywood.
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  However she came to a realization partway through her career that made her take
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  it in a radically different direction.
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  And I think if we want to define self actualization you'll see
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  with Terry's story how that is.
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  A prime illustration.
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  So, and it sort of starts a little bit with a lion.
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  But Terry, before we go and meet this lion, can you just tell us a little bit
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  who you are and welcome to the show?
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  Terry Kuebler: Thank you.
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  Thank you.
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  I'm glad to be here.
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  Yes.
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  And, and, and I'm glad the way that you're approaching that because most
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  people want to, you know, hear like, well, what actors did you work with?
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  And what, what was, you know, what got you into that field?
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  And my, my background, what got me into that field was my love of animals.
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  I, I was always drawn to animals, had horses my entire life.
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  I was, had moved down to the Los Angeles area and feared, you
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  know, that I was going to hate it.
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  I moved down there when I met my husband and was involved in the horse racing
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  industry, cause he was a harness driver.
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  So I thought, ah, I don't know what I'm going to do in Los Angeles
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  and working through a wildlife.
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  Rescue.
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  I was introduced to the industry of, of the Hollywood animal training.
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  And that was a fantastic fit for being able to work with not only domestic
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  animals, but I ended up working with a company who was a full zoo compound.
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  It had exotics and, and I was able to work with.
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  Wolves and, and bears and the big cats and so this was a fantastic fit for me because
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  it became about developing really strong relationships with the animals because the
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  work required the ability to communicate non verbally and from a distance.
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  So I had to learn how to project safety to the animal, regardless
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  of what was going on around them.
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  And that just, that required a deep connection, which really
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  spoke to who I am as a person and my desire to be around animals.
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  In the
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  process of this, in the middle of my career, so I was, I was pretty much
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  the normal mindset of, yes, I was learning how to train from the animals.
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  And yet I was the trainer, I was the head of the hierarchy, I was, you know, it was.
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  You do what I want and, and, and that was my mindset and I tell the story
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  sometimes of, of working with the eagle and, and I was training the eagle to fly.
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  Like, how, how, how ridiculous is that?
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  You know, what an eagle.
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  And, and, and but that was the mindset.
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  And so in the middle of all of this, I had a near death
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  experience when I had my daughter.
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  I I had a number of aneurysms and had a near death experience
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  that shifted my whole perception.
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  Of when I came back, really being a seeker of of spiritual connection and having
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  a teacher show up, you know, I always went with the when the students ready,
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  the teacher will appear and so I was.
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  Walking out in the woods one day and I was begging for, you know, where's my teacher?
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  Well, I'm ready.
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  I'm ready.
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  I need a teacher.
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  I need, you know, someone to help me connect these dots of why am I here?
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  Why did I come back?
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  All of it.
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  And in the middle of that, I heard a voice.
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  Be quiet.
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  And I was like, well, you know, my mind just went crazy.
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  What?
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  I need answers.
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  I need answers.
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  It was like, be quiet.
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  And as I got quiet, I realized I'm walking with a 500 pound male lion.
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  I'm walking out in the woods with him at my side.
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  And I looked down and he kind of rolls his eyes up to me like, finally,
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  it was just this huge aha moment of in the voice in my head said, I'm
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  sending you the best that I have.
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  So this revelation of, oh, my teacher is standing right next to me, how,
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  you know, it was just this horrible and like, oh my gosh, I'm so slow.
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  How could it be more obvious?
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  It's been a lion standing right next to me.
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  And so, yeah, yeah, it was, it was, you know, it's like, talk about a
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  board across the top of the head, you know, like how dense are you?
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  So it the journey from there was of course, the animals that I'm blessed
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  to be around are my spiritual gurus.
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  My spiritual teachers.
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  And then, you know, being able to shift that perspective of being in awe
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  of who they were as sentient beings and what they had to teach humanity.
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  So, shifting my entire perspective from being the teacher to being the student.
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  And that changed everything in my work as well.
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  It, you know, it, it just up leveled my ability to Well, that was
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  Rupert Isaacson: going to be my question.
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  Was it then possible to get the job done of showing up on set with
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  an animal and delivering a result with this sudden new mindset?
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  Or did it make that, like, suddenly not possible?
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  Terry Kuebler: No, no, it, it, it made it extremely possible in the way that
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  now there was a bond of trust because of the respect, because of the, you
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  know, I'm here for you and I, I'm just, because, Even with the horses,
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  a question that always bothered me was if you have a choice to do your
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  own thing or do what I want you to do, how does that, you know, how is that a
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  choice that you're ever going to pick?
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  And the answer came back of, I'm an animal who is kind of captured in your world.
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  And so if you have the ability to set safe space for me.
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  I want to be with you all day long, you know, because yeah, because I,
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  I, I'm in a cage or I'm bored or, or I'm a horse in a stall or whatever.
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  I, I want to get out and experience the world, but I want to feel safe doing it.
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  So, a bond of mutual respect.
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  Was formed and so anytime they got worried or in a new environment They
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  were very dependent on me of okay.
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  You're my safety unit, you know, you're who I feel safe around So
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  I'll do anything that you want and enjoy it because I feel safe,
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  Rupert Isaacson: right?
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  I think that this is there's a lot of questions I want to ask you about your
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  near death experience and how you How anyone possibly walks around the woods
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  with a 500 pound lion and you just sort of say these things off the car We're going
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  to have to return to them in a minute.
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  So don't worry listeners.
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  I'm gonna make a talk in more detail about this.
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  But The, this is, I think, touching on something which I thought we'd perhaps
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  get into later in this interview, which is that well, this conversation, which
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  is that because I work with animals too, I have noticed that animals like people
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  rather have a sense of purpose and are usually actually very happy to marry
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  that sense of purpose with your sense of purpose, provided you're listening
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  to their likes, dislikes, sensory needs,
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  going with the things that they enjoy, right?
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  Just like you would with people.
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  And because this idea of consent, you know, with animal, working
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  with animals comes up so much now.
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  And of course with domesticated animals that are not wild.
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  They could go feral in some cases, but actually they've been hardwired
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  to live with and deal with humans for thousands of years, the species
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  that we tend to interact with.
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  A lion might be rather different actually, but certainly horses, dogs, you know,
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  that sort of thing, domestic animals.
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  So I often find that the animals will seek out adventures with me.
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  But as you say, I came from a mindset of you must be the boss.
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  Because that was just the culture we grew up in to a mindset of walk with
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  me, but in order to make you feel safe, let me play the leader here,
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  because I do understand this monkey world and I can make it safe for you.
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  If we were in horse world, I hope you would do the same for me, you know, and
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  then I agree with you just sort of having that attitude seems to make things go.
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  So much better, but I want to scale back.
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  Okay, first question.
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  How do you walk around the woods with a 500 pounds.
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  I was in the woods this morning I didn't see anyone walking around
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  with 500 pound lions And you know, so how does one even do that?
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  Terry Kuebler: Well, that's, you know, that was the wonderful part about the
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  industry is that you had such a rapport.
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  We would get the, like the lion cubs when their eyes were
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  closed and bottle raised them.
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  And so you had a bond already.
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  And there was just a, a, a regular routine of you, you'd put a, you know, like a,
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  a chain collar leash on them and take them for walks so that they got exercise.
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  So it was like working a horse or whatever.
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  You, you would take them out and walk them.
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  Rupert Isaacson: The horse isn't naturally your predator.
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  So would there not be a point in which the big cat goes, actually, you know what?
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  I love you, but I am hungry.
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  Terry Kuebler: Yes, that there was there was always that they were always
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  a lion and that dealing with the public not understanding that was.
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  It's a very hard part of the job of the public saying, well, obviously
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  it's a tame lion and you're with it so I can walk up and pet it.
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  And that, that was one of the huge energetic lessons that I got to
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  learn from lions was to be able to, my body began to be able to sense
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  when their intent would change.
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  Because they would be walking along, da, da, da, you know, hi, we're just, we're
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  just buddies here, and suddenly their intention would go, you know what, I'm a,
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  you know, you're, you, you could be food.
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  And my body would respond to that and feel it.
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  And I'd go, ah, don't go there.
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  And they go, Oh, okay.
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  She knows.
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  So it taught me, wow, there is a physical response to intent.
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  And I need to know more about that because I want to take that.
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  I want to take that back to horses of what are they reading in my intentions?
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  that feels either safe or predatory to them.
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  And so that, that was, it was a, it was a wonderful learning
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  experience for me because I was lower on the food chain than a lion.
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  And, and my body needed to, to relearn how to read when their intention changed.
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  Rupert Isaacson: They just taught me through a safety protocol.
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  When you go walking with a lion in the woods, what Are you doing that
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  by yourself or do you always have a second person or something like that?
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  Is there are there some sort of chains of?
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  safety that you sort of need to abide by.
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  So talk me through like the nuts and bolts.
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  How do you go walk?
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  What do you do to stay safe walking alone through the
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  Terry Kuebler: woods?
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  There always was a buddy system.
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  You never, you never were alone.
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  So you always had to have at least two people with you.
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  So
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  Rupert Isaacson: when you had this revelation and you were asking
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  mentally, there were a couple of other humans around, but just not
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  involved in that conversation.
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  Terry Kuebler: Right.
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  That conversation was all in my head,
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  which happens quite often.
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  Rupert Isaacson: I know all about that.
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  I'm sure.
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  And when, when you had this revelation with the lion and the lion sort of
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  became Aslan and looked at you in that way, were the other two people
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  in any way aware of this, or was this purely between you and the cat?
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  Terry Kuebler: No, the the other two people You know, we're, we're just
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  paying attention to the environment and, and, you know, they're, they're
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  there as a safety net for it.
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  Is there anything come any, any people coming any, you know, anything we
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  have to watch out for and, and for me.
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  My entire attention is on paying attention to the lion.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Right, because you can't let your attention wander
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  if he suddenly decides to go.
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  So
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  Terry Kuebler: it's a practice in being very, very present.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Interesting.
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  Terry Kuebler: Yeah,
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  Rupert Isaacson: it must be.
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  Yeah.
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  Terry Kuebler: Yeah, you had to be because the lion is waiting for you not to be
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  Rupert Isaacson: right.
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  Terry Kuebler: Even if he
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  Rupert Isaacson: likes you.
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  Terry Kuebler: Yes, I
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  Rupert Isaacson: saw it's not personal.
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  I'm just, you know, I just am a lion.
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  Yeah.
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  But thanks for all the milk bottles that you gave me five years ago.
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  Yeah.
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  You
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  Terry Kuebler: could be lunch.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
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  When you had this switch in your.
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  relationship then with the animals that you were working with on set?
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  Did this show outwardly in your training techniques and then did that
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  bring questions or challenges from the colleagues that you were working with?
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  Or was it sort of invisible to them?
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  Was it just like a private contract that was between sort of you and God and you
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  and the animals in terms of intention, but outwardly it sort of looked the same?
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  Terry Kuebler: I, I would think I don't, I don't like to
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  disparage anyone or something.
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  It's just, it, it just, it changes your level of where suddenly you
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  start to question techniques.
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  And, and, and the habitual thinking, the habitual way of training where you
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  go, I'm not willing to do that anymore.
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  Rupert Isaacson: So what did you, what did you stop doing?
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  And did that bring resistance?
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  Terry Kuebler: Well, I stopped being of the hierarchy mindset of, of
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  being forceful, of you have no say in doing what I'm asking you to do.
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  And so it was, it was, It changed my training protocol to being more focused
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  on setting up a situation where the animal wanted to participate, rather
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  than setting up a situation where if you don't do this, you don't get fed.
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  And so you'll do when you get hungry enough.
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  Okay.
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  You know, that, that type of training and, and, and it was just, it was so much
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  more dependable in like onset situation because if an animal were scared or were
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  hungry, they weren't going to do anything.
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  And so if you were dependent on that for to get a certain set of behaviors.
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  And, and, and the animal reached.
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  Well, I'm not hungry anymore, so I'm not going to do anything.
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  You were done, you know, and, and in Hollywood, they, they did train that way
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  and that's why they depended so much on so many lookalikes, we would have animals.
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  Multiple animals to play one role because I
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  Rupert Isaacson: see because one animal
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  Terry Kuebler: said I'm not working today.
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  I'm not hungry
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  Rupert Isaacson: Got it
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  Terry Kuebler: You were screwed.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so you had to have five lines instead
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  of one for the same, right?
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  Just okay,
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  Terry Kuebler: but if you had a lion that was like I have a relationship
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  with you and I will do it to please you, then you were way ahead of the game.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Got it.
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  Terry Kuebler: But for instance, I had the lion that I had this epiphany
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  with that I had a relationship with.
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  There was one event on a set where he got really upset with another
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  trainer and he was going to kill him.
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  He went after him with the intent to take him out because he was
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  irritated with this trainer.
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  And I was able to jump in front of the lion and get eye contact with
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  him and say, no, you may not do this.
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  stop.
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  And I was, he had two guys on lines on the two big, huge muscle guys that
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  he was just dragging along with him.
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  They couldn't stop him.
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  He was going to take guy down.
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  And I jumped in front of him.
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  And because I had a relationship with him, I went stop.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Am I allowed to ask what movie that was?
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  I know you don't want to just get into that.
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  Terry Kuebler: I, yeah, no.
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  I don't even, I really don't even remember and it's funny because I was,
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  I do remember I was along on that.
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  I was not even considered a trainer on that, on that set because.
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  The hierarchy on the sets was so much, okay, we are working a big lion.
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  Therefore we, we must have big, huge men trainers.
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  And so I, I volunteered to go along to help out because.
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  because I had a rapport with this lion, but I was the
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  Rupert Isaacson: lion being required to do in that scene.
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  Terry Kuebler: Well, this was, he was just walking from one scene to another.
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  He, they were just out walking him at that point, but he became so irritated with
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  this trainer who kept teasing him, which, you know, Why would you tease a lot?
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  Rupert Isaacson: Right.
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  So that was my next question.
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  What was going on with the teasing?
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  How, so describe to me what the trainer was doing.
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  Terry Kuebler: Well, the trainer, the trainer was actually going
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  up and, and harassing him.
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  And, and in what way
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  Rupert Isaacson: though, like poking him with a needle, like
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  Terry Kuebler: grabbing, grabbing his tail and, and, and coming up and, and
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  like pretend biting him in the butt, you know, with his hand, you know,
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  like just going, and it was, Who knows?
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  It was very much, what the heck are you doing?
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  Rupert Isaacson: Was he showing off for somebody else or something?
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  Terry Kuebler: I guess he just had an ego of, I have no idea.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Because presumably this was a bloke who'd worked with
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  lions before and knew that doing something like that might be unwise.
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  What do you think went through his head?
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  That he thought, well, this would be a good idea to do this right now.
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  Terry Kuebler: No idea, because it was so, like, unethical,
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  un Like, what are you doing?
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  Okay.
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  And can you not read that you are pissing this lion off?
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  Why would you want to do that?
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  You know, so Yeah, it was just there were some trainers in in the business who were
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  so Disconnected from reading the animal that it was like, what are you thinking?
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  Did
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  Rupert Isaacson: trainers get taken out from time to time because of this?
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  Terry Kuebler: Oh, yes, you hear about it all the time Trainer being attacked,
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  you know, and and what happened?
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  Well, this was one of those this guy was gonna get eaten, you know, so so it was
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  and it would have been the lion's fault
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  Rupert Isaacson: you know, it's it's interesting you say that because of course
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  you and I share the horse world and i've Owned and worked with a lot of stallions,
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  which as you know can be aggressive and so on so I can't imagine ever doing anything
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  to sort of provoke that aggression because right, you know You might have to deal
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  with it anyway at some point So I mean the last thing you want to do is you know
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  Terry Kuebler: It's got to be an ego thing because you have seen, I mean,
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  in your probably probably work in on sets and stuff, how sometimes on a
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  horse, an actor will want to jack up the horse so that he's rearing and mouth
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  open and they think that looks cool.
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  You know, like, look at this animal that I'm working with.
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  mastering when you know but I can't imagine like wanting to have a stallion
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  get aggressive unless it just looked cool
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  Rupert Isaacson: to them.
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  And I could see someone's ego who was not uninformed doing that as an actor
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  sitting on the horse not knowing what he's dealing with or an actor with
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  a lion not knowing what he's doing.
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  It's just interesting to me that a trainer professional would do that.
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  And Go ahead.
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  Maybe
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  Terry Kuebler: even look, look how dangerous my job, you know, to the
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  film crew and stuff, look, you know, this is a dangerous animal I'm working
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  with and, and, you know, look at him roar and, and, you know, this is a
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  really dominant position that I'm in.
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  So that's the only thing I think of.
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  Rupert Isaacson: What, you know, we would on a full disclosure, the
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  listeners We Terry and I were together recently on a, on a retreat in Italy.
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  And Terry, there's two stories you shared with me that I want to share
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  with the listeners, if you would.
• 24:51
  One speaks to this business of when the cats.
• 24:56
  intent turns.
• 25:00
  And the other is when there was a second encounter with a lion that was
• 25:05
  perhaps even more let's say extreme.
• 25:08
  So the first one, you were walking with a leopard, I believe.
• 25:13
  And you said that thing about where you have to be.
• 25:17
  Fully fully tuned in.
• 25:19
  Can you tell us what happened with that leopard?
• 25:21
  It has to do with your arm.
• 25:23
  Terry Kuebler: Oh Gosh Rupert, you're making me tell all these
• 25:32
  stories Recipes about strawberry
• 25:37
  Rupert Isaacson: flan I suppose but yes
• 25:41
  Terry Kuebler: Diving boards that get you to change something But yes, this was, it
• 25:48
  was, it was what you were talking about is, what is the process of, of, you know,
• 25:53
  going in and taking a leopard for a walk?
• 25:56
  Well, leopards are known for being amazingly fast.
• 26:01
  They can, they can bounce off a wall and go over your head and in the process
• 26:08
  of going over, bite you five times.
• 26:10
  You know, I mean, they're, they're amazingly fast.
• 26:13
  And this leopard, he, he was Keisha was his name and I was
• 26:18
  hooking the chain around his neck and to take him out for a walk.
• 26:24
  But I didn't have backup right there.
• 26:28
  They hadn't come in the cage with me.
• 26:32
  I didn't normally you would carry like a bop or stick or something to
• 26:37
  Wrap them on the nose if they did bite down on you because when they're when
• 26:42
  they're cubs and and you're training them not to bite down too hard, you
• 26:47
  take your fingers and across their nose.
• 26:50
  Like, don't do that.
• 26:51
  Don't bite down on me.
• 26:53
  So, I had stuck that stick in my mouth and was doing the chain up.
• 27:00
  And he caught, I contact me to be like, you're defenseless.
• 27:06
  And just in that moment, he bit down and he bit down seriously.
• 27:13
  And I was lucky enough to have multiple layers on.
• 27:17
  I had you know, two jackets on and, and a long sleeve shirt under that.
• 27:22
  So he, I have a scar from it.
• 27:25
  That's, that's, you know, that's, it's not something that I'm proud of.
• 27:30
  It's not something that I show off.
• 27:32
  It's not a badge of honor.
• 27:33
  It's a badge of dishonor of I was not present and aware enough.
• 27:40
  And he was.
• 27:42
  And in that moment, he took full advantage of it.
• 27:46
  He's like, you screwed up.
• 27:50
  Rupert Isaacson: How did that not end up with an escalation
• 27:53
  with you dead or severely mauled?
• 27:56
  Terry Kuebler: I think again, because of the rapport, he wasn't, His, his intent
• 28:03
  was just in that moment of you screwed up and, and now it's going to cost you.
• 28:09
  And then the backup came in, you know, because there was another person there.
• 28:13
  They came in.
• 28:15
  He, he released my arm.
• 28:19
  So yeah, it could have, it could have been much worse, but
• 28:22
  there was another person there.
• 28:24
  So it just, like I said, it, it happens so fast.
• 28:29
  Yeah.
• 28:30
  It just an instant.
• 28:32
  But in, in that instant for me, time stops, you know, it's like, Oh,
• 28:37
  and you see everything happening in slow motion of, Oh, I screwed up.
• 28:42
  Rupert Isaacson: If you have a particular rapport with leopards, or with lions,
• 28:46
  was there a particular animal that you had a particular rapport with?
• 28:52
  Terry Kuebler: I, well, with that one lion I did, but I love tigers.
• 28:57
  Tigers seemed the most social to me.
• 29:01
  Now I, I know in the wild, it's it, they say that they are solitary.
• 29:06
  I don't believe it because they are so even more social than lions are.
• 29:14
  As far as wanting to play, wanting to bond, wanting to you know, be
• 29:19
  with someone, be in relationship leopards are very, very solitary.
• 29:25
  They would prefer to be left alone.
• 29:27
  You know, they, they prefer a solitary lifestyle, but then I guess
• 29:31
  that's kind of like house cats.
• 29:33
  Some of them are very social.
• 29:35
  Some of them are not, you know, but, but the leopards tended to be solitary.
• 29:42
  The tigers were very, very social, love to play.
• 29:46
  And, and the lions were social, but lazier than a tiger.
• 29:51
  They, they love to just lay around and, you know, sunbathe and hang
• 29:55
  out, especially a big male lion.
• 29:59
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, that brings me to the other thing, the story that I,
• 30:02
  I wanted to get you to talk about which is, so you're at this point of trust.
• 30:08
  You, you, you've got, you.
• 30:09
  started to establish much more rapport with the animals.
• 30:13
  And there you are lying around, indeed lying, actually lying around
• 30:20
  with a lion and something happens.
• 30:23
  And this story, when you told it to me, made a big impression on me.
• 30:27
  Can you take us through that?
• 30:31
  What happened that day?
• 30:33
  And again, what did you learn from that?
• 30:37
  And, and, and the follow up process of your colleagues, et cetera.
• 30:41
  Terry Kuebler: Yeah, well, that was, that was a transitional point for me of
• 30:48
  it's time to get out of this business.
• 30:51
  Because, and I don't like to go down the negative side of it because You know,
• 31:00
  the lessons in my life has progressed.
• 31:02
  as it should.
• 31:04
  But at that point, I was laying out with the lion and I, I was,
• 31:11
  he was laying across my lap.
• 31:14
  Rupert Isaacson: Was this the same lion that you talked about?
• 31:17
  Terry Kuebler: Yeah, the same lion.
• 31:19
  And, and he was socially grooming me.
• 31:23
  You know, I, how a dog sometimes will groom you as if you have
• 31:26
  fleece, you know, with their teeth.
• 31:29
  This lion was doing that on my leg.
• 31:31
  He was socially grooming me.
• 31:34
  And the head trainer came from over the top of me with, with the wood
• 31:42
  dowel and smacked that lion across the nose for having his mouth on me.
• 31:50
  And so the lion thought that I had done it because we were
• 31:55
  both kind of, you know, just.
• 31:57
  relaxed and, and, and hanging out together.
• 32:02
  He jumped up and I'm still laying in the prone position
• 32:06
  on the ground underneath him.
• 32:07
  He jumped up and was furious with me for reprimanding him for being social.
• 32:17
  And and, and that was kind of the tipping point for me of the lack
• 32:22
  of awareness in the humans around me is going to get me killed.
• 32:28
  So it's time to move on.
• 32:32
  And that, it was, it was such a hard choice in that you know, leaving, leaving
• 32:39
  the industry, leaving the animals that I had relationships with, you know, it was
• 32:45
  like, well, who's, who's ever going to have a rapport with these animals again?
• 32:49
  Who's going to work with them?
• 32:50
  Who's, so it was, it was hard to leave.
• 32:53
  I would, in the horse world, it would be like leaving a stable.
• 32:57
  With horses that you worked with and knew well because you didn't
• 33:00
  get along with management in
• 33:03
  Rupert Isaacson: so what did what did what happened to persuade that line
• 33:09
  that as furious as he was, he just got whacked across the nose with a
• 33:13
  wooden, heavy wooden thing when he was just trying to show you love.
• 33:20
  Why did he not kill you?
• 33:21
  What happened to prevent him from doing that?
• 33:24
  Terry Kuebler: Well, the, the, the head trainer was there.
• 33:27
  To, to, you know, back him off he, but the lion never, it destroyed our relationship.
• 33:34
  He never,
• 33:35
  Rupert Isaacson: what I was going to say, the lion couldn't get over that.
• 33:37
  He couldn't say, okay, that wasn't you.
• 33:40
  Terry Kuebler: He never trusted me again.
• 33:42
  He never, and that broke my heart.
• 33:44
  It was part of the, it's time to go, you know, because.
• 33:49
  Now, I don't have this relationship anymore.
• 33:52
  It's just been destroyed and so it goes back to being dangerous, right?
• 34:00
  For me, because I didn't have the respect of the head trainers.
• 34:08
  because they didn't realize the value of a relationship.
• 34:14
  You know, they were still in the old mindset of training.
• 34:18
  And what year
• 34:20
  Rupert Isaacson: was
• 34:20
  Terry Kuebler: that?
• 34:21
  I would say it was probably Early 2000s, like 2000.
• 34:27
  Rupert Isaacson: Relatively recently.
• 34:29
  Would you say that training methods and approaches have
• 34:31
  changed radically since then?
• 34:33
  Would you say it's still more or less as it was when you left?
• 34:37
  Terry Kuebler: I would venture to say since I'm not involved
• 34:39
  in it, it's hard to tell.
• 34:43
  I would hope that there are different levels of people
• 34:47
  just like in the horse world.
• 34:50
  I would I would say it's probably still
• 34:56
  a trainer mindset.
• 34:59
  Because, because the, the horse world is just evolving the dog
• 35:04
  world, I would think is still pretty much, you know, a trainer mindset.
• 35:10
  So I would assume that Hollywood was also because it was so ego based.
• 35:15
  It was so, a director even want to talk to a female trainer.
• 35:20
  They would
• 35:22
  Rupert Isaacson: ask
• 35:23
  Terry Kuebler: the actor how to get the animal to do
• 35:25
  something rather than asking me,
• 35:27
  Rupert Isaacson: you know, it's a really interesting point that
• 35:29
  because I, as you know, spent some years working on movie sets.
• 35:32
  When I was in college, I was mostly riding horses on them.
• 35:36
  And I remember being really.
• 35:42
  I don't know, shocked is not the word because I was at a military school so
• 35:45
  I was used to military hierarchies, but I found it curious, I think, that
• 35:53
  there was this desire for hierarchy on movie sets that people seem to
• 35:59
  actively want to ape the military.
• 36:02
  While not being military, and I've worked in other creative environments like in
• 36:09
  the theater and in the opera, actually, that little bit as a boy, and although
• 36:12
  you do have to have a chain of command and things have to happen, and sure, you've
• 36:15
  got a lot of teams need to be organized and things must go right for the show.
• 36:19
  Yes, yes, yes.
• 36:20
  But there was much more of a sense of team play, I felt, in theatre and opera.
• 36:27
  And when I got on movie sets, it was like, everyone was just an arsehole.
• 36:30
  And, but like, but like, really kind of enthusiastically putting
• 36:35
  effort into this arseholdom.
• 36:37
  So that, you know, the, the, the, and everyone was sort of busy.
• 36:41
  Dissing everybody else.
• 36:42
  So, you know, we were effectively extras, even though we were special
• 36:46
  action extras, because we were riding the horses in complex situations.
• 36:50
  And so we fell into this.
• 36:52
  bit where they didn't have to pay us as much as they'd have to pay a stuntman,
• 36:56
  but they'd have to pay us more than, you know, so special skills, right?
• 37:00
  You were
• 37:00
  Terry Kuebler: classified as a stuntman, which had, you know, some, some people
• 37:05
  Rupert Isaacson: to it.
• 37:06
  They called us.
• 37:06
  Yeah.
• 37:06
  And, and so, you know, if you, if you see okay.
• 37:10
  For the, for the people listening, who wants to know about film scenes, okay.
• 37:13
  If you've ever seen the film, Willow this is actually, typifies this mindset
• 37:17
  that there's a fantasy film called Willow from the 80s, which a lot of people
• 37:20
  still follow in a bit of a cult way.
• 37:22
  When that film opens, there's a princess being chased through the
• 37:26
  woods and she's being chased through the woods by two baddies in armor
• 37:29
  with these two death dogs, which are actually Rottweilers with latex suits
• 37:34
  on them, pursuing her through Epping Forest, which is just outside Lampin.
• 37:37
  And one of those baddies was me.
• 37:40
  I'm in every riding scene in that movie.
• 37:43
  I was aged about 20.
• 37:45
  And exactly as you say, the dogs had to be called by a trainer to run
• 37:53
  across this section of forest with us.
• 37:56
  cantering behind them as if we were hunting.
• 37:59
  But of course, because of the latex suits that the dogs were wearing they got a bit
• 38:04
  confused and we had to retake and retake.
• 38:07
  And then eventually, for some strange reason, one of the dogs turned and went
• 38:12
  the wrong way and ran under the horse's hooves of my co guy, my co baddie.
• 38:20
  And the dog wasn't actually hurt, not because he's also wearing
• 38:23
  a big piece of latex, but, you know, it wasn't a good thing.
• 38:27
  And then immediately, You had the dog handler who was like this big,
• 38:32
  shaven headed, tattooed sort of London, way on tall like that, yeah.
• 38:38
  Very aggressive.
• 38:39
  I've rottweilers, yeah.
• 38:40
  And the horse master, who was this same equivalent Greg Pauk.
• 38:44
  Huge dude.
• 38:45
  Kept coming out of a sort of, you know, somewhat criminally associated families,
• 38:50
  a lot of them do lot, you know, all that money, lots of flash, lots of power.
• 38:54
  And they kind of went at it in front of us violently while we're just sitting
• 38:59
  on our horses waiting for, and the directors, cause they love this stuff.
• 39:02
  And then the, the, you know, director to the first assistant director to the
• 39:08
  second assistant, they wouldn't talk to each other and they'd be so yeah.
• 39:11
  And there was sort of who you could sit next to if you
• 39:14
  couldn't sit next to when you.
• 39:15
  And you had to like demonstrate respect and you had to kiss ass and it was
• 39:18
  really, really interesting to me.
• 39:20
  There
• 39:20
  Terry Kuebler: was a hierarchy of who you could talk to, right?
• 39:23
  Who you could kiss.
• 39:25
  You had to do it in a hierarchy.
• 39:29
  Rupert Isaacson: Yes, it's like, oh, I'm not allowed to kiss your ass.
• 39:31
  Because you're actually too high for my lips, right?
• 39:33
  Got it.
• 39:33
  Yeah,
• 39:34
  Terry Kuebler: you're not supposed to even talk to me.
• 39:36
  But yes, you're God.
• 39:37
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, it's bizarre.
• 39:38
  So, so I could see how that would filter down.
• 39:40
  I didn't work around exotics.
• 39:44
  So all my things were just basically based around horses.
• 39:47
  You might occasionally see someone over there with an elephant or
• 39:50
  something, but generally there wouldn't be much, you know how it is.
• 39:53
  There wouldn't be much communication on a movie set.
• 39:56
  You go, you do your job and you leave.
• 39:58
  So, but what's interesting to me is that
• 40:04
  this world that we're trying to create art and wonder, right?
• 40:12
  That's the, that's what a movie is.
• 40:13
  We're trying to create.
• 40:15
  a journey into the imagination and often a journey through the
• 40:17
  heart and something inspirational.
• 40:20
  But in fact, they're often being produced.
• 40:24
  by people who are being so actively unpleasant to each other.
• 40:30
  So enthusiastically unpleasant to each other.
• 40:33
  That it's interesting that that doesn't come across more,
• 40:36
  you know, in the, in things.
• 40:38
  So
• 40:40
  Terry Kuebler: what I found really interesting was that it, it did come
• 40:46
  through, like if working a dog, for instance, If the dog did not like the
• 40:54
  actor because they were an asshole That does come through on camera.
• 41:00
  Okay, you know makes our job much harder in that We were supposed to make it
• 41:05
  look like these were best friends And it was Extremely obvious, you know,
• 41:11
  from the body language of the dog.
• 41:17
  I don't want to be anywhere near this person because they're
• 41:20
  radiating, you know, ego.
• 41:23
  And that, that made it difficult to work animals with.
• 41:28
  Because it did come across through the camera, I think, as far as the dog's
• 41:35
  feelings towards the person or whatever.
• 41:39
  Rupert Isaacson: That's funny.
• 41:40
  Terry Kuebler: That made the job a lot harder.
• 41:42
  Rupert Isaacson: So they just have to keep retaking until they got the
• 41:44
  things that looked somewhat usable.
• 41:46
  Terry Kuebler: Somewhat usable.
• 41:47
  Yes.
• 41:48
  Yes.
• 41:48
  And it did.
• 41:49
  It made it much tougher.
• 41:52
  Rupert Isaacson: So, so, okay.
• 41:55
  Right at the beginning of this conversation you talked
• 41:57
  about near death experience.
• 41:58
  So it, it sounds like you were sort of trucking along in the normal trainer
• 42:03
  mindset because after all, that's the, you know, the, the culture you,
• 42:07
  we all, we all start from somewhere.
• 42:09
  And then what really changed for you before these incidents
• 42:12
  with two incidents with the lion and The leopard and so forth.
• 42:16
  Was these near death experiences tied up around aneurysms and your daughter.
• 42:19
  Can you please talk a little bit more about that?
• 42:21
  Because again, a lot of listeners I think will have had similar experiences.
• 42:25
  What happened to you?
• 42:26
  And what did you experience during that?
• 42:30
  During that?
• 42:32
  Perhaps more than one near death experience that seems to have
• 42:35
  kicked you into another sphere?
• 42:38
  Terry Kuebler: Yeah, I My daughter was born in 87, and so, I, I
• 42:44
  started to have difficulty.
• 42:48
  I started going through strokes, aneurysms prior to, and so there
• 42:52
  were, there never really was a A point where you know, I was in the hospital
• 42:58
  and the doctor said, Oh, you know, you flatlined or anything like that.
• 43:02
  But, but I had the experience of leaving this planet going
• 43:09
  to a very, very bright portal.
• 43:13
  And standing and almost looking through this portal, and
• 43:18
  there were beings behind me.
• 43:21
  So, so my guides and all I remember hearing was, do you feel complete?
• 43:28
  And, and I, I said, no, you know, I just had a daughter.
• 43:35
  I, I've got to go back and, and be her mom and everything.
• 43:38
  And, and it was pretty much that brief of boom.
• 43:43
  I was back in my body.
• 43:46
  But the realization of how much choice we have in our lives of, of directing our own
• 43:55
  experience, because that question being posed of, it's up to you of whether you
• 44:01
  want to cross over or go back and it was like, oh, no, I'm not, I'm not done yet.
• 44:08
  I'm not ready to.
• 44:09
  And so it was okay.
• 44:11
  And, and that was huge to me of understanding that
• 44:16
  we have a lot of choice.
• 44:19
  In designing our own life and in you know, picking the path that we take.
• 44:26
  So when I came back, it almost felt as if I had a foot in both planes.
• 44:35
  For quite a while, and for the seeking part of, of, okay, who, who's going to
• 44:43
  teach me how to navigate this and how to make the right choices and, and, you
• 44:49
  know, how to live the rest of my life.
• 44:53
  Now, knowing that there is an afterlife and that we are here
• 44:59
  to to accomplish something.
• 45:01
  What am I here to accomplish?
• 45:04
  Other than the simple answer was you said you wanted to be your mother's daughter.
• 45:09
  I mean, your, your daughter's mother.
• 45:14
  So, you know, would it be okay if that was it, if that was, you know, but learning
• 45:19
  how to be a mentor and, and if we go back to the, the conversation of, of
• 45:29
  learning from the lion about intention and how to feel that, it's, it's, it's
• 45:37
  The journey really takes me if, if you want to go now to the future,
• 45:45
  I mean, me now, my quest now in life, my, my driving force is
• 45:52
  a lot of our beliefs are what have shut us down as far as our spiritual connections.
• 46:03
  I think intuition and.
• 46:07
  Being connected to different levels of consciousness is hardwired into us
• 46:13
  and if you take the belief that the scientific premise of our electrons
• 46:22
  can operate either as, as waves or as
• 46:27
  Rupert Isaacson: particles.
• 46:28
  Yeah.
• 46:29
  Terry Kuebler: I believe humans senses operate in the same way where if you
• 46:34
  believe that you're separate and, and when everything changed to separate
• 46:41
  state and church and to separate, we are not part of nature and we're,
• 46:45
  we're separate, we're separate, we're separate that belief system shut down.
• 46:53
  Every part of our senses that operates on the wave length, and I, that's, that's
• 47:00
  intuition, that's spirituality, that's, you know, so if you're operating just on
• 47:07
  a physical realm of getting information from just what is physically measurable,
• 47:19
  we've shut down two thirds of our ability to receive information.
• 47:26
  Information.
• 47:28
  And when you start going down this rabbit hole of, of connecting with animals,
• 47:36
  it took me to connecting to myself, you know, being present, being aware of my
• 47:42
  internal world, and how my mind affected my body language, my energy fields.
• 47:51
  So, then the fascination with biofields and communicating with animals, non
• 47:57
  verbally, non physically and then that will take you to the connection of
• 48:04
  once you start feeling that connection with with animals and biofields.
• 48:10
  Their awareness of you being connected is right there.
• 48:17
  So it's like, oh, wow, you know, not only do we have the capacity to be aware
• 48:22
  of this, but animals are already there.
• 48:25
  When you get there, it's kind of like the, oh, hello, here you are, finally.
• 48:30
  Now you're part of this environmental sphere of awareness.
• 48:37
  And that's a completely different level of consciousness that we have access
• 48:43
  to that kind of information then.
• 48:46
  And from there, it goes to planetary consciousness from
• 48:52
  planetary consciousness.
• 48:53
  It goes to a universal and cosmos.
• 48:58
  And then the, and then the super, you know, the, the
• 49:02
  field, the zero point field.
• 49:04
  So there are layers of awareness and consciousness layers.
• 49:11
  that we've just shut down through our belief system.
• 49:15
  Now, that was a huge rant.
• 49:17
  I'm sorry, but that's where this journey has taken me and
• 49:22
  it's all because of the animals.
• 49:24
  Now,
• 49:25
  Rupert Isaacson: okay, I want, I want to go to where you went
• 49:28
  to after leaving Hollywood.
• 49:32
  And how that's brought you to that conscious universe.
• 49:39
  I wouldn't say I Idea.
• 49:40
  Idea.
• 49:40
  'cause I don't think it's an idea.
• 49:41
  I think it's a reality.
• 49:42
  And I'll go into that a little bit, but say realization.
• 49:46
  But let, I just want to go back to when you had the aneurysm.
• 49:50
  Did you know you were having an aneurysm?
• 49:53
  Like when it happened to you, like, oh my gosh, this is an
• 49:55
  aneurysm, and what did it feel like?
• 49:59
  Terry Kuebler: Yeah, I, I wouldn't say at that point I knew it was.
• 50:02
  an aneurysm, I knew that it was a stroke of some kind.
• 50:06
  I I actually, and this is what happened.
• 50:09
  Rupert Isaacson: What were you doing?
• 50:10
  And what did it physically?
• 50:12
  Actually, it
• 50:12
  Terry Kuebler: happened when I was 18 years old, it happened.
• 50:16
  I was at college one day, and I lost half of my vision.
• 50:20
  And, and my ability to speak and everything, and I thought, whoa, what,
• 50:24
  what is, what, somebody put something in my coffee or something, what is going on?
• 50:30
  And and then it cleared up, and being 18, it was like, whoa, that was weird,
• 50:36
  but the intuition Cleared up within
• 50:38
  Rupert Isaacson: hours, cleared up within days.
• 50:41
  Terry Kuebler: Within, within hours, it cleared up and then later that
• 50:45
  night, I had a horrific headache.
• 50:47
  But then by the next day, everything was gone.
• 50:50
  So nothing ever happened of that other than a few years later, I
• 50:55
  was reading a book and it happened to be a Sydney Sheldon book.
• 50:59
  And it talked about a girl having an aneurysm in the story.
• 51:05
  And I went, wow, that's what happened to me.
• 51:09
  This sounds really familiar and then in the story, she had difficulty during
• 51:15
  childbirth and, and had another aneurysm because of the hormones and stuff and
• 51:21
  I went, wow, I better investigate this.
• 51:25
  I may have difficulty during childbirth.
• 51:29
  So I started investigating.
• 51:32
  hormonal differences and imbalances and aneurysms and things like that.
• 51:36
  And I went in, when I got pregnant, I went in arguing with my doctors,
• 51:42
  I'm going to have some problems.
• 51:44
  because I've had this history.
• 51:47
  And it was a fight.
• 51:49
  They were like, no, no, you're fine.
• 51:51
  You're just scared.
• 51:52
  You know, you're just, you're just being silly.
• 51:56
  And I fought and I fought because my intuition was like, no, this is real.
• 52:01
  I'm going to have problems and I need to have a C section.
• 52:08
  So I fought for that.
• 52:11
  And finally, the doctors went in and did CAT scans and stuff and they said, by
• 52:16
  golly, you do have some scar tissue there.
• 52:18
  You did have some kind of episode, but you'll be fine.
• 52:23
  We're not worried about it.
• 52:24
  I said, I'm worried.
• 52:27
  So I fought again and I ended up, I did have a scheduled C section,
• 52:32
  but I started having aneurysms.
• 52:36
  prior to that.
• 52:37
  So I had to go in.
• 52:38
  My daughter was taken a month early, but these
• 52:43
  Rupert Isaacson: aneurysms cause blackouts.
• 52:45
  They cause you fainted and fell over.
• 52:47
  What
• 52:48
  Terry Kuebler: happened?
• 52:50
  Because of the location was in the left side of my brain.
• 52:52
  So the right side of my body would go numb.
• 52:56
  I would lose feeling in the right side of my body.
• 52:59
  I would lose the ability to speak.
• 53:01
  I would lose You know, cognitive abilities, but mostly speech and the
• 53:06
  right side of my body, which I'm and then
• 53:10
  Rupert Isaacson: each time it cleared up sort of within hours.
• 53:12
  So did they take gradually longer and longer to clear up?
• 53:15
  Terry Kuebler: Well, at at 1 point, and this was when I was, eight
• 53:20
  months pregnant at one point.
• 53:22
  I started having these symptoms and I'm trying to communicate
• 53:26
  to my husband I'm in distress.
• 53:29
  I'm having some problems and so he called the doctors that Obviously I had
• 53:38
  been arguing with and and had gotten on board as far as i'm going to have some
• 53:43
  problems And they they said get her in here right now get her into the hospital.
• 53:48
  We we've got to You Take the baby right now.
• 53:51
  She's, she's having a stroke.
• 53:54
  The fact now that it is that there was no, they, they say I should have paralysis.
• 54:02
  I should have, I should have had long term effects from this.
• 54:07
  But why do you
• 54:08
  Rupert Isaacson: think you didn't
• 54:11
  Terry Kuebler: my near death experience my choice?
• 54:13
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, and have you had an aneurysm since so interesting
• 54:20
  Terry Kuebler: and I but I haven't had I Decided one child was all I was
• 54:26
  Rupert Isaacson: Right, what are the hormonal imbalances
• 54:29
  that bring on the aneurysms?
• 54:30
  I didn't I didn't know that there was a connection between hormones?
• 54:35
  Yeah, it
• 54:35
  Terry Kuebler: was in back then in, in whatever that was that the 80s or
• 54:40
  whatever, when they would put someone on, on the pill or on estrogen patches,
• 54:46
  they were so they were one size fits all.
• 54:50
  And it was, it was way too strong for me and, and caused hormonal imbalances.
• 54:59
  Rupert Isaacson: So estrogen, too much estrogen can lead to
• 55:03
  Terry Kuebler: Valuerisms?
• 55:04
  Yes.
• 55:06
  Rupert Isaacson: I did not know that.
• 55:07
  Terry Kuebler: See, and, and, and maybe doctors would not agree.
• 55:11
  It was amazing to me how much I had to argue on my own behalf.
• 55:17
  And then after I went through it all, the nurse in the elevator says, I'm so
• 55:22
  glad that you stuck to your guns, because my job is to take care of the infants
• 55:28
  when the mother dies on the floor.
• 55:30
  table.
• 55:31
  And I went, what?
• 55:34
  I said, do you mean this happens often?
• 55:37
  She goes, you have no idea.
• 55:39
  And I said, then why did, did I have to fight so hard?
• 55:44
  And she said, well, it's still a male dominated field and we don't
• 55:51
  know anything about hormones.
• 55:54
  Rupert Isaacson: Do you think there's lots of women out there who've suffered
• 55:56
  aneurysms because of going on the pill?
• 56:00
  Terry Kuebler: Yes, I do.
• 56:02
  I think it's a big thing.
• 56:03
  Rupert Isaacson: Wow.
• 56:07
  Wow.
• 56:08
  Okay.
• 56:08
  Yeah.
• 56:08
  I had no idea.
• 56:10
  I knew about other risks, you know, cancer risks and so on.
• 56:14
  You know, it's so interesting that something which was in some ways a
• 56:17
  great tool for feminism, because it also was, it did, it did liberate.
• 56:23
  Couple of generations of women to go out into the workplace and get out from under
• 56:29
  at least accidental child, you know Pregnancies and so on.
• 56:33
  So it was of course hailed as a liberating force the bill But I did not and then
• 56:39
  of course now we subsequently realized that there were risks of cancer and so
• 56:44
  forth But I didn't realize that there was a similar risk with is it is it is it?
• 56:49
  Is the
• 56:52
  overproduction of estrogen linked with weakening of general vein or blood
• 57:00
  vessel walls, or only in the brain?
• 57:04
  Terry Kuebler: I don't know if, you know, the question is, is, Was
• 57:08
  there a weakness there to start with that the hormonal fluctuations
• 57:15
  you know, caused an imbalance?
• 57:17
  Because I, I struggled, you know, in puberty, I struggled through
• 57:22
  massive cramps and I, so I was hormonally out of whack anyway.
• 57:28
  So was, was the, was there weakness there to start with?
• 57:33
  That's it.
• 57:33
  Was I just hormonally imbalanced?
• 57:37
  It would be, it would be interesting to know, you know, what were my readings?
• 57:43
  What were my levels back as a teenager?
• 57:46
  You know, what are they now?
• 57:49
  But the fact that a lot of women going through childbirth, they with the,
• 57:57
  the spikes in estrogen, because when I started having the seizures or whatever
• 58:02
  was because at the end of pregnancy, your, your, your hormones spike,
• 58:09
  you know, so, so, so consequently, I was like, wow, I'm going to have
• 58:14
  difficulty going through menopause.
• 58:20
  So, so I went on bioidentical hormones.
• 58:24
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 58:25
  And but that is not created.
• 58:27
  I have my
• 58:28
  Terry Kuebler: own intuition saying I need to keep myself at a certain level.
• 58:32
  Okay.
• 58:33
  Because I obviously have issues, you know, vein weaknesses or
• 58:40
  whatever to large hormonal spikes.
• 58:43
  Rupert Isaacson: And what's really interesting, I didn't realize
• 58:45
  that there is a vein weakness.
• 58:49
  Hormonal spike connection and like, what is that?
• 58:52
  Is that causing just, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm wondering a lot.
• 58:57
  Is it causing weaknesses in the stem cells that then becomes the
• 59:01
  cells that of the blood vessel wall.
• 59:05
  So they arrive weakened because of some hormonal imbalances.
• 59:09
  Is it that?
• 59:10
  So I'm going to go off and do some research because.
• 59:13
  Terry Kuebler: Yeah.
• 59:14
  Well, what was interesting is after the whole childbirth, I had a, a, a.
• 59:21
  Neurosurgeon come came in and and and I just had my daughter and, you know, my
• 59:26
  near death experience and everything.
• 59:27
  And he came in and he says, you have a tumor in your brain.
• 59:32
  We're going to we have you scheduled for surgery for tomorrow.
• 59:35
  And I went, no, no, it's not a tumor
• 59:40
  because I knew.
• 59:42
  I mean, I, I had already been fighting for this.
• 59:45
  I'm gonna have, you know, and that I had this earlier episode
• 59:49
  and, and he was so furious with me for refusing to do the surgery.
• 59:58
  You know, he was just beside himself.
• 1:00:00
  Like, you can't say no.
• 1:00:02
  It's like, oh yes, I can , I'm walking out of this hospital because I know
• 1:00:08
  that if you go in for surgery, I'm not walking out of this hospital.
• 1:00:13
  And he said, yeah, well, it's very likely.
• 1:00:15
  You probably won't be able to talk.
• 1:00:16
  You probably won't have use of your right side, but that's okay.
• 1:00:20
  We'll save your life.
• 1:00:21
  And I said, no, no, you're not.
• 1:00:24
  I'm going home.
• 1:00:26
  So, and, and then later the neurologist said, I could lose my job for telling
• 1:00:33
  you that you're, you're right.
• 1:00:36
  You have the ability to wait and watch this and monitor it.
• 1:00:40
  If it goes down, it was blood leakage.
• 1:00:44
  If it gets larger, it's a tumor.
• 1:00:46
  So we can wait and see.
• 1:00:49
  And, and it ended up, you know, dissipating, so.
• 1:00:53
  Rupert Isaacson: Why would he lose his job?
• 1:00:55
  So my intuition is Or giving you a life saving professional opinion?
• 1:01:00
  Terry Kuebler: Because he, because of that hierarchy, he Again, it comes down
• 1:01:04
  Rupert Isaacson: to hierarchies, doesn't it?
• 1:01:04
  Yeah,
• 1:01:05
  Terry Kuebler: but the surgeon was above him, and they are not
• 1:01:08
  allowed to to have any other opinion than the hierarchy's opinion.
• 1:01:14
  Rupert Isaacson: So interesting, you know, that the hierarchy's on the movie
• 1:01:16
  sets, the hierarchy's in the hospitals.
• 1:01:19
  Yeah.
• 1:01:19
  Terry Kuebler: And Rupert, we can't, you can't release this podcast
• 1:01:23
  because we're going to get burned.
• 1:01:25
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, we're not naming names.
• 1:01:26
  We're just recounting, you know, vague anecdotal any
• 1:01:33
  hospital has been named here.
• 1:01:36
  But all right.
• 1:01:37
  So look, you, you, you, you, you fight to be heard.
• 1:01:42
  And then you do get a handle on what's going on with you hormonally, but then
• 1:01:49
  you have the spike with your daughter.
• 1:01:50
  So that brings you to a near death experience that then brings you into
• 1:01:55
  a much greater relationship with the animals, which of course makes you a
• 1:01:57
  better professional until there you are with the lion who's grooming you,
• 1:02:02
  which I must say, if I saw someone with a lion nuzzling on someone
• 1:02:05
  with their teeth, I, of course, wouldn't be able to interpret that.
• 1:02:08
  But I suppose you'd watch for a while and say, well, Is that
• 1:02:11
  lion drawing blood or not?
• 1:02:13
  So, clearly, you were in a relationship with this lion and then someone comes
• 1:02:17
  along, again, in the hierarchy of your animal trains and messes that up.
• 1:02:21
  And now you decide to leave Hollywood.
• 1:02:24
  What do you then go off and do?
• 1:02:26
  Terry Kuebler: Well, we ended up my husband, racing by then was,
• 1:02:34
  suffering in Southern California.
• 1:02:36
  So, so we would transition from Sacramento, which was
• 1:02:39
  my hometown to Los Angeles.
• 1:02:43
  We would come up here every summer.
• 1:02:44
  Well, the racing ended up Sacramento ended up having more
• 1:02:51
  dates up here than in Los Angeles.
• 1:02:54
  So we moved to the foothill area of Sacramento.
• 1:02:58
  So we moved out of LA.
• 1:03:00
  Rupert Isaacson: And what did you do?
• 1:03:01
  Okay.
• 1:03:01
  He's still professionally in the But what do you
• 1:03:04
  Terry Kuebler: do?
• 1:03:05
  I, I, I tried to, because my brother David, who you've met, had
• 1:03:11
  the advertising agency, I tried to do film work in Sacramento area.
• 1:03:17
  It just, It didn't compare to the industry in Los Angeles, the money wasn't there,
• 1:03:24
  the, the education wasn't there of, of what was required to train an animal.
• 1:03:30
  So, so I, I went back and forth with that for a while and, and then in the
• 1:03:36
  process would do private training for, for horse lessons and, and for people
• 1:03:42
  with problem horses, problem dogs.
• 1:03:44
  So I went, I became a specialist in, as a problem solver.
• 1:03:50
  And, and what I learned through that was, wow, you know, I, I, it's, it's
• 1:03:55
  the people who need the education.
• 1:03:58
  It's the people who need to change.
• 1:04:01
  And how do I people don't necessarily want to hear that is
• 1:04:06
  like, your dog is not a problem.
• 1:04:07
  You are
• 1:04:10
  like, okay, how do you how do you navigate that?
• 1:04:13
  Because I loved the whole thing with the Hollywood industry was.
• 1:04:18
  I loved working 1 on 1 with animals without having to
• 1:04:22
  deal with the general public.
• 1:04:25
  In private training, it was.
• 1:04:29
  Okay, somehow I need to educate this person.
• 1:04:33
  So I need to become a person trainer as much as an animal trainer.
• 1:04:41
  And through working with animals and through communicating to the
• 1:04:45
  people there's this, this, this.
• 1:04:47
  Animal is not a problem.
• 1:04:50
  There's a behavior that you don't like.
• 1:04:53
  So there's a behavior that's a problem, but the animal is a good animal.
• 1:04:58
  And I thought, wow, I would love to have that mindset with people.
• 1:05:04
  I want to view people with the same open heart that I view animals.
• 1:05:10
  How do I do that?
• 1:05:12
  And so I went into a coaching program.
• 1:05:15
  And that it was.
• 1:05:18
  Another spiritual elevation for me of viewing people in the same way that
• 1:05:26
  I viewed animals of, you know, there may be behaviors that this person is.
• 1:05:35
  Projecting or whatever that that are serving it in some way,
• 1:05:41
  but the person is a good person.
• 1:05:44
  They have qualities that I love and appreciate.
• 1:05:47
  And so after the coaching program, I just, I learned to love people
• 1:05:52
  as much as I loved animals.
• 1:05:55
  And so again, my work evolved, because now I could mentor and coach
• 1:06:01
  people along with their animals.
• 1:06:05
  So it evolved into almost like a marriage counselor or a relationship counselor
• 1:06:11
  between the animal and their person.
• 1:06:16
  And it was what you need to change in you in order to make
• 1:06:19
  this work for this animal.
• 1:06:23
  Rupert Isaacson: Now, the human ego makes that a tricky process.
• 1:06:28
  How did you find yourself able to Get people to open up to this
• 1:06:35
  kind of approach, because it makes them look at themselves too.
• 1:06:38
  Well, that's
• 1:06:38
  Terry Kuebler: a gift I think that the animals bring, because people are
• 1:06:42
  willing to change for their animals.
• 1:06:44
  Rupert Isaacson: You know, you're right, they are.
• 1:06:46
  It's true, they're more willing to change for their animals
• 1:06:48
  than they are for other people.
• 1:06:50
  It's so true.
• 1:06:51
  And
• 1:06:52
  Terry Kuebler: I, I take that to myself of the, I would take
• 1:06:54
  Rupert Isaacson: that to myself to change
• 1:06:57
  Terry Kuebler: and, and, and people is so, you know, working with people or
• 1:07:04
  what they would do whatever it took.
• 1:07:06
  And, and, and I did end up being a last resort.
• 1:07:10
  You know, you are my last resort because this horse is going to have to be put down
• 1:07:15
  or this dog is going to, you know, be put down or whatever you are my last resort.
• 1:07:21
  And so their last resort is I'm willing to do anything.
• 1:07:24
  What do I need to do?
• 1:07:26
  And then they were in the right mindset to to change themselves.
• 1:07:32
  Rupert Isaacson: So interesting.
• 1:07:33
  So can you give us a couple of examples of some really fundamental like sea change
• 1:07:39
  changes that some, that you saw someone put themselves through in
• 1:07:43
  order to get better with their animal?
• 1:07:47
  Terry Kuebler: Well, I think the most fundamental change for most
• 1:07:52
  people is, is their focus on, on, and, and this dives into the self
• 1:08:00
  awareness of what do you want?
• 1:08:02
  What, what is it that you want to happen?
• 1:08:06
  Because I couldn't for a while.
• 1:08:09
  I couldn't figure out where, why I would do something.
• 1:08:13
  And then the person watching me would imitate me and the animal would look at
• 1:08:17
  me like, what, what did they just say?
• 1:08:21
  And I thought, what's the difference.
• 1:08:23
  And the difference was my mental imagery was on what I wanted to happen.
• 1:08:31
  Like, if, say, if a person was struggling with a horse, and I go, stop, what is
• 1:08:38
  it that you want, and they go, I just want this horse to stop pulling on me,
• 1:08:44
  I want it to stop throwing its head, I want it, it's like, no, that's what you
• 1:08:49
  don't want, what is it that you want, and they go, They would have trouble
• 1:08:56
  coming up with it, you know, the pictures mentally, what does it look like?
• 1:09:01
  What do you, what are you asking?
• 1:09:02
  And they go, I just want my hair, my horse to drop his head.
• 1:09:07
  I want him to relax.
• 1:09:09
  I want to, and the horse would sigh and do it immediately.
• 1:09:14
  Why didn't you tell me, you know, and, and.
• 1:09:18
  And the person's face would just go, Oh, my God, did I just do that?
• 1:09:25
  And you go, Well, what do you think?
• 1:09:29
  So, teaching a person to visualize and focus on what it was that they wanted to
• 1:09:37
  happen was huge to the animal because the animal would respond to it immediately.
• 1:09:47
  And that was a huge aha moment for the person to go, Oh,
• 1:09:53
  what am I normally picturing?
• 1:09:56
  What am I normally focused on and they 90 percent of the time are
• 1:10:02
  focused on the problem and how to fix it, which is a completely
• 1:10:10
  different mindset and energy than the solution and what that looks like.
• 1:10:17
  Yeah.
• 1:10:19
  Yeah.
• 1:10:20
  When you go to the solution and what that looks like, the
• 1:10:23
  animal goes, Oh, very clear.
• 1:10:25
  Done.
• 1:10:25
  Right there with you.
• 1:10:31
  Rupert Isaacson: A lot of people who are listening to this are dog
• 1:10:32
  owners, not, not just horsey people.
• 1:10:36
  I'm intrigued by what, because horses, people tend to own and ride and then go
• 1:10:43
  away, but a dog you live with 24 seven.
• 1:10:46
  What would, what can you give us an example of a fundamental
• 1:10:50
  personality change that you saw someone allow themselves to
• 1:10:54
  go through on behalf of a dog?
• 1:10:58
  Terry Kuebler: Well, again, for instance, the timing and the
• 1:11:04
  pictures of focusing on the problem.
• 1:11:07
  For instance, My dog won't come to me and, and the person is going
• 1:11:15
  so that I can hit you because I'm so scared and I'm so mad that you,
• 1:11:23
  that you are running away from me.
• 1:11:25
  Don't run across that street.
• 1:11:26
  Don't run away.
• 1:11:27
  Don't is what they're picturing and their entire energy gets.
• 1:11:32
  aggressive and scared because of all of the things that
• 1:11:37
  they're picturing happening.
• 1:11:39
  Rather than them picturing, come over here so that I can hug you
• 1:11:44
  because I love being with you.
• 1:11:46
  That's completely different energy than, you know, kind of.
• 1:11:52
  Have you seen
• 1:11:52
  Rupert Isaacson: someone actually able to put that anger
• 1:11:55
  and fear down in that moment?
• 1:11:57
  Or is it more, you coach them to that moment?
• 1:11:59
  Because when someone is flooded with cortisol, you know, they
• 1:12:01
  usually can't change what they're doing in that moment, right?
• 1:12:05
  Terry Kuebler: No, but they can, they can be coached through it.
• 1:12:09
  Try this instead, you know, try, what are you picturing?
• 1:12:13
  What are you?
• 1:12:13
  So, so it goes into this self evaluation.
• 1:12:17
  That's why for me that the self awareness is such a big piece.
• 1:12:22
  And from Candice Carradine and the HeartMath Institute, now we know all
• 1:12:28
  about the coherency between what the heart wants and what the brain is doing.
• 1:12:34
  Worrying about right that when the brain is focused on all the negative things
• 1:12:41
  that could happen and the fear your entire nervous system changes, your entire
• 1:12:47
  energy changes, your chemistry changes, the animals are aware of all of that, and
• 1:12:54
  it confuses them because it's chaotic, you know, it's, it's It's not coherent.
• 1:13:01
  So the messages are, are very confusing and chaotic because
• 1:13:07
  the animal is receiving the information in an energetic way.
• 1:13:13
  Rupert Isaacson: That makes sense.
• 1:13:14
  Emotional, i.
• 1:13:15
  e.
• 1:13:15
  energetic.
• 1:13:16
  Yes.
• 1:13:16
  Terry Kuebler: Yeah.
• 1:13:17
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:13:17
  Alright, so now you're, you're, you've moved to coaching
• 1:13:21
  human animal partnerships.
• 1:13:24
  Privately there in Sacramento.
• 1:13:26
  Where does it go from there
• 1:13:29
  Terry Kuebler: from there?
• 1:13:30
  It goes.
• 1:13:31
  It just keeps going farther down the end because I get to learn as much.
• 1:13:38
  So I'm continually a student.
• 1:13:40
  Which I love, I get to learn as much from every different scenario
• 1:13:46
  and every different aha moment that people have because the animals
• 1:13:53
  are just so responsive to it.
• 1:13:55
  And it's, it, it takes me to what, what's that about?
• 1:14:00
  What is it that they're picking up on?
• 1:14:03
  So it went to, I love now doing self empowerment retreats.
• 1:14:10
  Because, like I said, I've gone to the place of, wow, animals are
• 1:14:19
  teaching me that intuition and channeling and information comes
• 1:14:27
  through these fields of awareness.
• 1:14:31
  And we have the capacity to environmentally be of this
• 1:14:39
  earth rather than on this earth.
• 1:14:42
  So, this new fascination with people wanting to re engage with
• 1:14:48
  nature is a perfect fit for me.
• 1:14:53
  It fascinates me that people are starting to realize we've become
• 1:14:58
  so disconnected, so in our heads.
• 1:15:02
  That it's a health hazard to us and to the planet, that how do we get back in sync?
• 1:15:12
  So the, the whole study of, of entanglement and, you know,
• 1:15:16
  where science is going is just absolutely fascinating to me.
• 1:15:21
  And to get to play with that, with animals as, as, As co teachers in a
• 1:15:26
  retreat setting, what could be better?
• 1:15:30
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so talk me through it.
• 1:15:31
  If I come on one of your retreats, if one of the listeners comes on your
• 1:15:34
  retreats, and by the way, listeners, I would encourage you to, because I was
• 1:15:38
  on a retreat with Terry in Italy and It couldn't have been more delightful.
• 1:15:41
  I'm going to go into some of the revelations that you
• 1:15:44
  brought through in a moment.
• 1:15:46
  But what would you do when somebody arrives and says, yes, Terry, I would
• 1:15:51
  like to have this experience with you where you can now begin to connect
• 1:15:55
  me to more of this meta field beyond just, you know, An individual animal
• 1:16:01
  to animals to nature itself to, you know, Oh, I'm looking at the fox going
• 1:16:07
  past my window in the middle of London.
• 1:16:12
  Wow.
• 1:16:13
  Yes, yes, yes.
• 1:16:14
  Okay.
• 1:16:15
  Terry Kuebler: See how that lights you up.
• 1:16:16
  Why does that light you up, Rupert?
• 1:16:18
  It's
• 1:16:18
  Rupert Isaacson: nature right there.
• 1:16:19
  And the two wood pigeons that were down in the garden.
• 1:16:23
  Oh, and now the fox has gone up on the roof.
• 1:16:24
  Rupert.
• 1:16:25
  of my mother's studio.
• 1:16:28
  How wonderful.
• 1:16:29
  A quick a quick aside.
• 1:16:31
  I'm in London right now.
• 1:16:32
  I live normally in Germany, but I'm in London right now because my mother's
• 1:16:34
  She's gone in for a back operation, so I'm here sort of in back up, and her
• 1:16:40
  studio, I'm watching the fox go up the roof, her studio has a, in the middle
• 1:16:44
  of London, it's really middle middle, has a family of foxes living behind it,
• 1:16:47
  who've taken to coming up from the roof, and I've been waking up every morning,
• 1:16:50
  sleeping in the studio, to the foxes scrabbling on the skylight, because
• 1:16:54
  I think it's warm up there, and then playing with each other, there's a whole
• 1:16:56
  family of them, and they're playing on the skylight, and I've been taking
• 1:16:59
  pictures of them from underneath, they have no idea that I'm there, and I've
• 1:17:02
  Terry Kuebler: They have no idea you're there.
• 1:17:04
  How fun is that?
• 1:17:05
  Rupert Isaacson: It's extraordinary.
• 1:17:06
  Terry Kuebler: It's
• 1:17:06
  Rupert Isaacson: extraordinary.
• 1:17:07
  So Terry, when one of us wants to come on a retreat with you, are you pairing us up
• 1:17:12
  with animals that you've got or are you.
• 1:17:16
  Working with animals on a sort of more symbolic way.
• 1:17:20
  Well, how, how, how's a retreat work?
• 1:17:22
  And what do you do?
• 1:17:23
  What do you show us?
• 1:17:25
  Terry Kuebler: So, a lot of times it has been horse women.
• 1:17:32
  And I, I don't relegate it to women.
• 1:17:35
  It just seems like, you know, horse functions seem to be 90 percent women.
• 1:17:40
  So a lot of times it's women that come with their horses.
• 1:17:44
  That want to form a deeper connection with their horse, but we do it through
• 1:17:51
  the horses facilitating play and a lot of, a lot of that happens because
• 1:18:00
  this is the first initiation that people have to their mindset, actually
• 1:18:08
  affecting their field of energy.
• 1:18:12
  So we talk about, you know, the fields of energy.
• 1:18:15
  Well, a retreat situation is really reconnecting with, with nature.
• 1:18:23
  So there's interaction with animals, be it horses or just out in nature itself,
• 1:18:31
  I love to go places like Yellowstone, you know, in, in the United States
• 1:18:36
  where there's a lot of wildlife.
• 1:18:38
  So it can be just while sitting out and observing and journaling in, in wildlife.
• 1:18:45
  It's drumming, some journey work, so teaching people how
• 1:18:50
  to journey and get answers from their own intuition and guidance.
• 1:18:58
  A lot of variety, I, I, I kind of, design the retreat according to the
• 1:19:04
  group that I'm putting it together for, you know, whether it be horse people or,
• 1:19:10
  or women's empowerment or leadership.
• 1:19:14
  retreats.
• 1:19:16
  So, so what do you want to do, Rupert?
• 1:19:20
  What if, what are we doing at Castle Leslie?
• 1:19:23
  That's what I want to know.
• 1:19:25
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, I'm gonna talk to, okay, yes, and actually Okay.
• 1:19:31
  So listeners, Terry and I are going to be doing some retreats together and Castle
• 1:19:35
  Lesley is an amazing place in Ireland.
• 1:19:36
  And if you have listened to Sammy Lesley's podcast here on Live Free,
• 1:19:41
  Write Free, she's the person who owns, runs and conceived Castle Lesley, which
• 1:19:46
  is extraordinary place in Ireland.
• 1:19:48
  It's like going to, to Narnia.
• 1:19:50
  Please do join us on one of these.
• 1:19:52
  I'm going to talk a little bit about some things you told me.
• 1:19:56
  when we were on the retreat in Italy and that I found very intriguing
• 1:20:02
  that I think listeners would as well.
• 1:20:04
  So if you remember Terry, we were sitting talking and you were saying, you know,
• 1:20:11
  you, you had been doing a lot with horses and as you were getting further
• 1:20:17
  and further into looking through the lens of the heart, looking through the
• 1:20:20
  lens of the spirit, trying to be less of a particle, more of a wave, all of the
• 1:20:25
  things that you've been talking about, entanglement, that at a certain point
• 1:20:29
  you, you said you were starting to get messages from horses saying, you know,
• 1:20:34
  we've been holding up the change, the, a lot of the change in sort of Western
• 1:20:40
  humanity for the last 30, 40 years.
• 1:20:44
  And we're getting to the point where our work may be done and
• 1:20:48
  now other species are taking over.
• 1:20:52
  And I found that really intriguing because I thought, well, yes, actually, in the
• 1:20:57
  sort of 40 years I've been involved in the horse industry, I have seen that shift.
• 1:21:02
  It's not that you don't still have people who rigidly adhere to the old school,
• 1:21:06
  but more and more and more, even at the top of the sort of sport industry,
• 1:21:10
  one sees a softening, one sees or at least more people moving that way.
• 1:21:16
  Even if there's resistance than than than there ever was and
• 1:21:19
  I think in the horse industry, things are actually quite positive.
• 1:21:21
  They're going in a positive way.
• 1:21:22
  Let's say so when you said that to me, it's like, well, yeah, I
• 1:21:25
  sort of have seen that parallel.
• 1:21:27
  And then you said to me, so now I said, what is anyone else speaking to you?
• 1:21:32
  And you said to me, yes, Rupert, the whales.
• 1:21:35
  And I registered my own reaction, and there were two Ruperts there.
• 1:21:42
  There was an older Rupert that, I mean, I'm quite old Rupert now anyway,
• 1:21:45
  so yeah, but an older, older Rupert I could recognize from a younger self,
• 1:21:49
  automatically putting on a little knee jerk there, going, Oh, talking to the
• 1:21:54
  whales, and this is the Rupert who's gone, you know, he works with shamans
• 1:21:58
  in Kalahari, he's seen people shapeshift into leopards, and yet even with all
• 1:22:03
  that, there's still like this little vestige of the old school, which is
• 1:22:07
  basically just the people that raised me talking, you know, and I observed
• 1:22:12
  that and I went, Ooh, if I'm having that reaction, that probably means there's
• 1:22:16
  something in what Terry's saying, because it must be challenging some old paradigm.
• 1:22:20
  And so therefore, I should know what the new paradigm is.
• 1:22:24
  Then I was intrigued.
• 1:22:24
  So I said well,
• 1:22:27
  do you remember I asked you?
• 1:22:29
  Is that because Because because I thought let me just put all prejudice aside.
• 1:22:34
  Let me just ask the curious question here So what what I was curious
• 1:22:39
  was is If whales are deciding now to come forward and help us, which
• 1:22:44
  would make sense on sort of the more planetary, the more global level
• 1:22:47
  we are after all a planet of water.
• 1:22:50
  Is it because in the last 40 years we have stopped hunting them basically?
• 1:22:53
  I mean, there's a couple of countries that do, but we've basically
• 1:22:56
  made a decision as a species.
• 1:22:59
  to stop hunting that species, you could say, and have the whales
• 1:23:05
  noticed and have they now, does that make them think we're ready for
• 1:23:11
  some sort of shift in consciousness?
• 1:23:13
  And where are they in consciousness and where are they
• 1:23:15
  in relation to our consciousness?
• 1:23:17
  So could you talk to us a little bit about that?
• 1:23:23
  Terry Kuebler: Yeah, and, and we'll take it back to because the, the messages
• 1:23:31
  that the horses had completed there.
• 1:23:34
  Soul contract of helping humans evolve was coming from the whales, not from
• 1:23:42
  the horses, the horses are still very, that is their part of their
• 1:23:47
  contract with humanity is to help evolve it help raise its consciousness.
• 1:23:57
  And.
• 1:23:59
  If I take it back to, for me, my intuition, what I've learned is
• 1:24:06
  that my intuition comes to me in a.
• 1:24:10
  nonlinear way, meaning that a lot of times I'll start to receive the answer
• 1:24:17
  before I've even asked the question.
• 1:24:21
  And then when I go and I ask a question, I go, well, I must be just making that
• 1:24:27
  up because I already was thinking about that, you know, a week ago or whatever.
• 1:24:31
  And now I recognize the pattern of Answers start to come and then I form the
• 1:24:37
  question and and the dots get connected.
• 1:24:42
  So the reason that I say that is when I say that the whales were calling
• 1:24:47
  to me what now in my mind, I relate a calling to it's it's part of the
• 1:24:53
  answer starting to come through of now the whales want to teach us.
• 1:24:59
  I hadn't connected yet with whales.
• 1:25:02
  I didn't know that I was going to, but I kept getting this niggling in my
• 1:25:08
  mind of, I need to be around whales.
• 1:25:11
  I need to connect with whales.
• 1:25:14
  They have something important to teach.
• 1:25:16
  So taking it back to that, that, that, that was the calling that I
• 1:25:20
  was having intuition wise of, of it's time for other species to step up.
• 1:25:27
  So then when I, when I decided to start doing some channel writing of
• 1:25:34
  connecting with whale consciousness, it wasn't an individual whale or
• 1:25:40
  an individual group of whales.
• 1:25:43
  It was.
• 1:25:45
  The collective conscious of whales saying horses have done their job
• 1:25:52
  in raising people's consciousness.
• 1:25:55
  that now they're asking the right questions.
• 1:25:58
  And do you remember that I said earlier, when you start being aware
• 1:26:04
  of these fields of consciousness, the animals are already there aware.
• 1:26:09
  That's why the whales are ready, because we've gotten to the place where the whales
• 1:26:14
  are go, Oh, hello, here you are finally.
• 1:26:18
  Rupert Isaacson: Now, the lion, when you Right.
• 1:26:21
  Now we
• 1:26:22
  Terry Kuebler: can teach you because you just woke up.
• 1:26:25
  You just entered the room or this field of consciousness.
• 1:26:29
  You just entered it.
• 1:26:31
  And now we can have a conversation.
• 1:26:34
  That's how it feels to me as far as other species being ready to teach us.
• 1:26:41
  No, they've always been ready.
• 1:26:43
  We're now entering the room of that field of consciousness.
• 1:26:49
  Of course.
• 1:26:49
  And it's because our beliefs have gone there, science is proving, you know,
• 1:26:54
  these different fields of energy and these different connections are possible.
• 1:27:00
  So we're entering the room, so to speak.
• 1:27:05
  Does that make sense?
• 1:27:06
  Rupert Isaacson: It does.
• 1:27:06
  What, what, what, what messages of note have come into you from the Wales?
• 1:27:15
  Terry Kuebler: Well, a lot of the teachings were about vibration and
• 1:27:20
  frequency, how how healing the planet and ourselves and it, you know, it was
• 1:27:30
  kind of, I, I believe it was Edward Casey said a long time ago, think of
• 1:27:34
  things in vibration and frequency.
• 1:27:37
  That was Tesla.
• 1:27:40
  Rupert Isaacson: But, but, but Casey also, what Casey said was that rather like
• 1:27:45
  Jung, he, but Casey called it the Akashic record, Jung called it the collective
• 1:27:50
  consciousness, that there is this sort of all human ideas, all ideas, all experience
• 1:27:56
  that has ever existed or ever will exist, all exist sort of simultaneously in this
• 1:28:03
  quantum field and you can access it.
• 1:28:06
  If you want to intentionally sort of thing that right.
• 1:28:10
  Yeah.
• 1:28:11
  And of course, just just while you're saying that you talked
• 1:28:13
  about frequency and vibration.
• 1:28:15
  What are whales, but things that exist by frequency and vibration.
• 1:28:19
  Yeah,
• 1:28:19
  Terry Kuebler: right.
• 1:28:20
  And they and they the information coming through was about the Akashic records So
• 1:28:30
  to speak for the planetary consciousness, that the water contains memories.
• 1:28:38
  Rupert Isaacson: Right.
• 1:28:38
  Yes, liquid intelligence.
• 1:28:39
  They
• 1:28:40
  Terry Kuebler: are able to access that information.
• 1:28:43
  So they were saying humans are concerned right now with losing their elders
• 1:28:48
  and with losing indigenous people.
• 1:28:50
  cultures.
• 1:28:52
  We're still here.
• 1:28:53
  We have access to the water.
• 1:28:56
  We have access to the, the records of, of the planet.
• 1:29:02
  And that's how we navigate.
• 1:29:05
  Cause I was like, why do whales sing?
• 1:29:08
  And they were saying, we are seeing our stories into the water.
• 1:29:13
  We are sharing our, our navigational routes, our
• 1:29:17
  histories, our stories our culture.
• 1:29:21
  Into the water, and they said, think of it like the rock
• 1:29:26
  paintings for indigenous cultures.
• 1:29:30
  You know, or the storytelling tools this week, the water is our tool and
• 1:29:38
  so there was all information like that.
• 1:29:40
  That was like, oh, wow.
• 1:29:42
  Now, and I, when I get information like that, it's like, okay, go
• 1:29:46
  research that and find out more.
• 1:29:48
  And it takes me down these rabbit holes of, oh, there it is.
• 1:29:52
  Oh, there it is.
• 1:29:53
  You know, water has memory and that's we talked about that on the retreat
• 1:29:57
  a little bit of imbuing the water.
• 1:29:59
  With your intentions and changing the structure of it.
• 1:30:05
  Well, they're saying that we have the capacity to do that, to, to clean up water
• 1:30:10
  pollution is just do it vibrationally.
• 1:30:17
  And and then there's, yeah, it's just, it's fascinating.
• 1:30:21
  And then there's the elephants are coming forward now, and we could
• 1:30:26
  teach how to do that with the earth.
• 1:30:29
  The earth also has the capacity to retain
• 1:30:32
  Rupert Isaacson: memories.
• 1:30:33
  Right, that was going to be my next question, because for example, when
• 1:30:35
  I'm hanging with the Bushmen, the Sun Bushmen, and the Kalahari, they'll always
• 1:30:39
  say the earth is us, the earth is our ancestors, our, our bones, our dust.
• 1:30:45
  Becomes the earth, you know, we we are so that was going to be my
• 1:30:49
  next questions Okay, so elephants earth talk to us about that
• 1:30:53
  Terry Kuebler: Well, that's I, I haven't gone there yet, haven't been
• 1:30:58
  with elephants yet, but, but that's the message coming through is that there's
• 1:31:02
  something about vibration and frequency and, and the, how they receive it
• 1:31:06
  through their feet how they know what, how they, because there was a like a
• 1:31:12
  documentary that was narrated by Morgan Freeman that talked about a rescue that
• 1:31:19
  would release elephants back into the wild and they couldn't figure out how
• 1:31:25
  the elephants from prior years would always show up wherever they were going
• 1:31:29
  to do the release, even though it was a different time of year, and hundreds of
• 1:31:35
  miles away, the elephants that they had already released would show up there, and
• 1:31:40
  they were going, how do they know this?
• 1:31:44
  You know, where we're going to be when we're going to be there, and I always
• 1:31:49
  found that fascinating that there's some form of knowing or communication
• 1:31:55
  that the elephants have with the intention of the humans that raised them.
• 1:32:02
  Rupert Isaacson: It's very interesting.
• 1:32:03
  You know, we know that whales sing, speak, communicate, you know, vast
• 1:32:09
  distances through vibrations of frequency, some of which we can
• 1:32:12
  hear and some of which we cannot.
• 1:32:14
  And of course elephants do the same.
• 1:32:15
  They often communicate at very low frequencies that the human ear can't
• 1:32:22
  pick up, but the instruments can.
• 1:32:24
  And I find it fascinating that we're now.
• 1:32:28
  at a point in human culture where we can accept through instrumentation
• 1:32:35
  that there are many, many planes, even in our own physical plane, that we
• 1:32:40
  cannot perceive like infrared, like ultraviolet, like higher frequencies or
• 1:32:45
  lower frequencies that we now can accept.
• 1:32:48
  Whereas perhaps a hundred years ago or 50 years ago, if we'd have said no
• 1:32:52
  any, if it's, you know, if I don't, if I can't see it with my eyes and
• 1:32:54
  hear it with my ears, It's not there.
• 1:32:56
  And now we know that that is just not true.
• 1:32:59
  Even though, of course, we'd had the telephone, we'd had electricity,
• 1:33:03
  we'd had all these things that we actually couldn't explain, couldn't
• 1:33:07
  see, but knew, knew were there.
• 1:33:09
  But we say, well, I can sort of see electricity because I flicked the light
• 1:33:11
  on, but no, that's not electricity.
• 1:33:12
  That's light created by electricity.
• 1:33:15
  We still can't see what electricity is.
• 1:33:17
  Oh, I can see lightning.
• 1:33:17
  Yeah, but that's not electricity.
• 1:33:19
  That's electricity.
• 1:33:20
  That's electrical energy creating a visual form of something else,
• 1:33:23
  but what is electricity itself?
• 1:33:24
  We, we still don't know.
• 1:33:26
  And
• 1:33:29
  these conversa, conversations like this with you give, give me a lot of hope
• 1:33:33
  because really what this begins to sound like is the sort of conversation that
• 1:33:38
  I might have in the Kalahari with one of my teachers, who was a healer, was a
• 1:33:46
  shaman, deeply involved in walking the line between physical world and the non
• 1:33:54
  physical world and the animal world and the human world and having to do that
• 1:33:58
  because your very survival is based on it.
• 1:34:02
  What I'm wondering as you are telling me these things is, does
• 1:34:06
  it all come down to empathy?
• 1:34:14
  Terry Kuebler: I'm not sure, say more about that.
• 1:34:16
  I'm not sure I understand the question.
• 1:34:18
  So, so
• 1:34:19
  Rupert Isaacson: empathy, empathy and sympathy are two different things.
• 1:34:22
  Like, so let's, let's say, I don't know, you, you stub your toe on the
• 1:34:25
  door and like, Oh, Terry, you're right.
• 1:34:26
  That's sympathy.
• 1:34:27
  But if I have stubbed my toe pretty recently and you stub
• 1:34:33
  your toe, I'm in your shoes.
• 1:34:34
  I can feel what you need.
• 1:34:37
  And I'm like, Oh, Terry, do you need this?
• 1:34:40
  Because I can feel what you need.
• 1:34:43
  That's a very banal example.
• 1:34:45
  But, so, empathy between humans, say, is walk a mile in that person's shoes.
• 1:34:51
  Well, you can't, but you can, with your imagination, project it there, and then
• 1:34:56
  that suddenly opens your heart, and that suddenly opens your heart to compassion.
• 1:34:59
  You were talking about heart coherence, and what it will
• 1:35:01
  certainly do is dissolve conflict.
• 1:35:04
  What it will certainly do is reach a better outcome.
• 1:35:08
  Then if you didn't do that, it will open up channels of communication.
• 1:35:12
  It will repair relationships.
• 1:35:14
  It will avoid war, for example.
• 1:35:18
  But it's one, we find it hard enough to do that between our fellow human.
• 1:35:23
  When we go trans species, however, I think very interesting things happen.
• 1:35:28
  And I guess I'm feeling that if we are basically a hunter gatherer,
• 1:35:37
  highly intelligent ape, who evolved at the, margin of land and water,
• 1:35:42
  because that's our history of about the last 300, 000 years.
• 1:35:46
  Therefore, we're sort of amphibious.
• 1:35:48
  Therefore,
• 1:35:50
  the relationship with the water is very important for us.
• 1:35:54
  And it can be positive or negative depending on what we imbue it with,
• 1:35:58
  because that's liquid intelligence, like our cerebral spinal fluid
• 1:36:01
  and our blood is all part of that.
• 1:36:04
  The liquid in our cells is all part of that same water that's on the planet.
• 1:36:08
  And then if we begin to bring that empathy to other species,
• 1:36:17
  a horse, a dog, a lion, a whale,
• 1:36:23
  a rock, a stone, a star,
• 1:36:29
  are we, a fungus, you know, are we then all of those things at once?
• 1:36:35
  Because we are all those things at once, right?
• 1:36:37
  We're mammals, we're, we have fungus in our bodies, we're all
• 1:36:39
  composed of stardust, we're, we're all composed of liquid.
• 1:36:44
  Once we start behaving that way, thinking that way, feeling that way, whether
• 1:36:49
  we come in because we want a better relationship with our horse, or better
• 1:36:52
  relationship with our spouse, or better relationship with ourselves, or our dog,
• 1:36:59
  is it a question that as soon as we take that step into this sort of greater
• 1:37:04
  empathy, Then what we're actually doing is we're dancing with God.
• 1:37:11
  And as soon as we do that, does, is that the great mystery?
• 1:37:16
  Is that when life becomes?
• 1:37:19
  magical, beautiful, wondrous, all the things that we know life actually sort
• 1:37:25
  of is behind the veil of all the shit.
• 1:37:31
  And it's just like, we, we, we, we're trying to touch it
• 1:37:33
  and back to the movie industry.
• 1:37:35
  It's so interesting.
• 1:37:36
  You know, the movie industry almost exists to kind of try to help us connect
• 1:37:41
  with this world of the imagination and this world of inspiration and this world
• 1:37:44
  of, but, you know, hierarchies and, Other things can get in the way of that.
• 1:37:49
  But nonetheless, the aspiration is there for a sort of altered state out
• 1:37:52
  of body experience of sort of having the story take you sitting in the
• 1:37:57
  dark with the big screen in front of you, whoosh, you're into the story,
• 1:38:03
  but it's
• 1:38:04
  Terry Kuebler: a
• 1:38:05
  Rupert Isaacson: bigger story, isn't it?
• 1:38:06
  Terry Kuebler: Yeah, the word, when you say the word empathy, for me, it still
• 1:38:14
  comes from A mindset of, of division of, of there's me and there's you, I can, I
• 1:38:21
  can feel you because I can relate to you.
• 1:38:25
  So there's, there's, there's me and there's you.
• 1:38:28
  So you're, it's still a, a separation mindset.
• 1:38:34
  And, and, and then we're talking about the particle of, of when I
• 1:38:40
  can feel it, experience it, touch it, measure it, then it's real.
• 1:38:47
  And that's a slow and dense way of receiving information.
• 1:38:53
  If, when our beliefs change as they are starting to change
• 1:38:58
  now, because science is.
• 1:39:01
  Going there and proving it of, of that everything is made of energy.
• 1:39:07
  And so when you start thinking in a.
• 1:39:16
  Mindset of my body is an instrument of receiving energetic information
• 1:39:25
  from fields of information.
• 1:39:30
  That's the levels of consciousness that you're talking about
• 1:39:34
  of, of being able to know.
• 1:39:39
  What an animal is thinking or being in an environment and like you talk
• 1:39:45
  about the hunters and gatherers where they become part of the environment
• 1:39:49
  and they know where everything is, they know what it's thinking, they become
• 1:39:54
  part of that field of information.
• 1:39:57
  That what stops us from being able to do that is our beliefs.
• 1:40:04
  It is in any way different cultures that have been brought up in that
• 1:40:09
  way, have that ability to do that and they think we're abnormal.
• 1:40:14
  What do you mean you can't talk to the stars.
• 1:40:17
  What do you mean you don't hear the tree standing over
• 1:40:20
  there, and what it has to say.
• 1:40:23
  You know, it's just, there isn't, they don't have to get through that belief
• 1:40:30
  of, well, I'm a human, and therefore I'm special, and that tree is just a tree.
• 1:40:38
  It doesn't have to be.
• 1:40:38
  It's so interesting,
• 1:40:39
  Rupert Isaacson: yeah, because we didn't start that way as humans.
• 1:40:42
  No, and we are connected, of course, whether we want to believe
• 1:40:46
  it or not, I mean, here we are, we're not anywhere else, you know.
• 1:40:52
  So
• 1:40:52
  Terry Kuebler: for me, there's different fields of connection, there's your
• 1:40:57
  internal field, your external biofield,
• 1:41:00
  Rupert Isaacson: your,
• 1:41:02
  Terry Kuebler: your field that you have with, you know, other people
• 1:41:08
  with, with, with those you're connected to, you know, you have a group field.
• 1:41:13
  So we're just starting to get interested in working with the
• 1:41:16
  horses and working with the animals.
• 1:41:18
  We're, we're getting interested in what is this group field thing?
• 1:41:23
  You know, how to, how do birds fly and not crash into each other?
• 1:41:28
  How do they know, you know, and, and people are starting to have
• 1:41:32
  those experiences where they go, wow, this is a real thing, a group.
• 1:41:36
  And I think, I
• 1:41:37
  Rupert Isaacson: think we have that all the time, you know,
• 1:41:39
  even without noticing it.
• 1:41:40
  For example, I was at a,
• 1:41:45
  conference last year where somebody was saying, Oh, and animals can do that
• 1:41:50
  thing like birds and murmurations or, you know, horses all running together
• 1:41:53
  and not bashing into each other.
• 1:41:55
  And it's because they're more connected and we're not.
• 1:41:57
  And I was thinking, is that, and then they showed pictures of people in
• 1:42:01
  crowds sort of falling over each other.
• 1:42:02
  But I was like, Hmm, I don't know.
• 1:42:04
  I've seen horses bash into each other and I've seen, you know, I'm
• 1:42:07
  sure birds do it sometimes too, but.
• 1:42:10
  Actually, humans do it all the time and we do it under really extreme situations.
• 1:42:15
  So for example, I'm in London as we do this thing.
• 1:42:18
  And I just came back here on the subway from visiting my mother and in
• 1:42:22
  the ward where she's had her backup.
• 1:42:24
  And you know, you're dealing with thousands of thousands of people
• 1:42:28
  in a busy station in London, all moving through a narrow space.
• 1:42:33
  All a little bit in their stress brain and really they ought to be bashing into
• 1:42:38
  each other all the time But no, no, no, they're not they all Dancing elegantly
• 1:42:42
  in and around each other as if by water half of them with their headphones on.
• 1:42:45
  Not even looking at each other and absolutely aware and no one's being
• 1:42:50
  pushed off into the you know Train tracks and no one, you know, it's actually a
• 1:42:54
  miracle and fights aren't breaking out between people and people aren't tripping
• 1:42:58
  up and there's this old, you know, old person who's vulnerable and everyone's
• 1:43:02
  just flowing around that person.
• 1:43:04
  And I was looking at it going, you know, we're still, we are so connected
• 1:43:08
  and it's only when we bring thought.
• 1:43:11
  To our disconnection, weirdly, that we disconnect and but as soon as we aren't
• 1:43:17
  thinking that we go straight back to connection, but I think we just aren't
• 1:43:22
  Terry Kuebler: conscious of it.
• 1:43:23
  Especially Western, you know, Western, it's really been taught.
• 1:43:27
  And that's, that's why it's so fascinating to work with kids as far as intuition
• 1:43:32
  and stuff before it's been taught.
• 1:43:34
  Hold out of them, you know, we've been taught we're, we're, you know,
• 1:43:39
  that's not real and we're separate and take care of yourself and, and, you
• 1:43:44
  know, there's not enough to go around.
• 1:43:46
  So we have to compete for it.
• 1:43:48
  And all of those are learned behaviors.
• 1:43:52
  If, if, if we were able to keep kids in their intuitive, creative, You
• 1:44:00
  know, mindset from early on what a different planet it would be.
• 1:44:06
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, it's interesting where, where the conversation
• 1:44:12
  evolved to in a little bit further back was the problems
• 1:44:19
  with being with hierarchies.
• 1:44:22
  And hierarchies are scarcity, scarcity, mentality, scarcity, mentality comes
• 1:44:29
  directly out of agriculture and all of the warrior traditions, all of the
• 1:44:34
  breakdown in the equality between the sexes, all of the separation from the
• 1:44:38
  divine epidemics, organized religion.
• 1:44:41
  It all starts about 10, 000 years ago with agriculture.
• 1:44:44
  Before that, you do not see war depicted on cave paintings.
• 1:44:47
  You do not see human atrocities depicted.
• 1:44:51
  You do not have.
• 1:44:52
  lone warrior stories.
• 1:44:55
  No, no, no, no, no.
• 1:44:56
  Completely different way of thinking.
• 1:44:58
  And luckily those people are still here alive and well on the planet.
• 1:45:02
  We've pushed them into very, very, you know, difficult retreats.
• 1:45:08
  But my philosophy is I do feel, and I think it's conversations like this,
• 1:45:14
  prove it, that we coming out of that post agricultural, post modern, post
• 1:45:19
  industrial thing are returning to the hunter gatherer sets of ethics.
• 1:45:24
  in terms of how we relate to each other, how we relate to the planet, the idea
• 1:45:28
  of care, the idea of compassion, the idea of love, religious frequency,
• 1:45:32
  stewardship, while at the same time now having at our disposal these tools, these
• 1:45:39
  technological tools, which we've earned through a rather unpleasant process.
• 1:45:46
  Can we turn those technological tools To the right thing.
• 1:45:50
  Time will tell, but I do feel that there's a, a will there, a growing will
• 1:45:55
  there that I think someone like you having witnessed your relationship with
• 1:45:59
  animals and the way people change their relationship with animals and therefore
• 1:46:03
  to themselves and therefore to the wider.
• 1:46:06
  Environment both on this planet and beyond.
• 1:46:09
  I think that's to some degree proven.
• 1:46:13
  I think that your life is really sort of a, an illustration of that.
• 1:46:16
  Would you not agree that I'm very optimistic, but call
• 1:46:21
  me naive, but I do feel it.
• 1:46:24
  Terry Kuebler: It's very exciting and fascinating to me of that.
• 1:46:28
  It is.
• 1:46:30
  It's, it's not, it's not gaining new tools.
• 1:46:36
  we're reawakening to what's already there.
• 1:46:41
  And, and that's the same thing of, of, of, like you said, that when you,
• 1:46:45
  when you raise your consciousness or change your beliefs or, or start getting
• 1:46:50
  interested or curious about these different ways of, Receiving information
• 1:46:57
  or of being the animals are right there.
• 1:47:01
  They're already there going.
• 1:47:03
  Oh, yay Oh, yay Hi, glad you came into the room, you know, glad you glad you're
• 1:47:09
  here so so the whole message of and the whales are waiting that that was what I
• 1:47:16
  burst out to To carrie lake when I met her and the whales are waiting because
• 1:47:20
  that was the message that I was getting Is they were waiting for us to get to
• 1:47:26
  a certain conscious level To be able to even exchange information with us.
• 1:47:34
  So it's really encouraging that, that obviously we have, you know, we're waking
• 1:47:40
  back up to remember a lot of these things.
• 1:47:44
  Indigenous old ways of being or, or teachings that that are going
• 1:47:51
  there are now proven by science.
• 1:47:53
  And so now we're, we're, oh, it's okay to believe that now
• 1:47:56
  because now it can be proven.
• 1:47:59
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, I think the, I think the, the advances in quantum quantum
• 1:48:03
  entanglement are changing everything.
• 1:48:06
  And now, yes, okay, yes, we could exist on multiple planes, yes, you
• 1:48:10
  could be connected with someone at a vast distance, yes, yes, yes, because
• 1:48:13
  here we've, we're observing electrons doing just that, being waves until
• 1:48:18
  we observe them and then they become particles and then we look away and they
• 1:48:20
  become waves again, we're seeing this.
• 1:48:22
  I agree, and if you take it
• 1:48:24
  Terry Kuebler: back to our original conversations of our original
• 1:48:28
  conversations of what's the biggest shift that I, that I witness in
• 1:48:33
  people it's a change of focus for for communication with their animals to
• 1:48:38
  work is it's a change of their focus.
• 1:48:41
  It's.
• 1:48:42
  The same on a planetary level of just instead of a problem solving
• 1:48:48
  mentality of what's wrong with the planet, what needs to be fixed, that we
• 1:48:53
  could change to a mindset of, of what frequency would be most valuable here
• 1:49:00
  and things would change immediately.
• 1:49:03
  That's the message that I'm getting with the whales of, of, of.
• 1:49:07
  If you think in terms of vibration and frequency, it
• 1:49:10
  could happen instantaneously.
• 1:49:14
  Rupert Isaacson: That's
• 1:49:15
  Terry Kuebler: encouraging.
• 1:49:16
  Rupert Isaacson: It certainly is.
• 1:49:17
  And by the way, for those listening, this is happening in the field of medicine.
• 1:49:21
  And I'm hoping to get a couple of people on the show who are practicing doctors and
• 1:49:25
  researchers who are beginning to look at how vibration of frequency can be used to
• 1:49:31
  do things very, very quickly that we don't think the thought hitherto cannot be done.
• 1:49:36
  And of course, what is that but shamanic healing?
• 1:49:40
  scientifically proven.
• 1:49:41
  It's so interesting, isn't it?
• 1:49:42
  It's just the original stuff.
• 1:49:43
  I guess the original stuff is always going to be the best stuff.
• 1:49:46
  And yeah, sometimes people say, why have animals at all?
• 1:49:49
  Well, they connect us, right?
• 1:49:51
  They connect us to this stuff.
• 1:49:54
  Terry Kuebler: Well, it's, and it's, again, those levels of consciousness
• 1:49:58
  and awareness of they're the same as, as above, so below, you know, it's
• 1:50:04
  like, so you say medicine is going here for us to be able to heal ourselves.
• 1:50:10
  Well, and heal our relationships and heal the planet and heal the, you know,
• 1:50:14
  to, to get to the place that you said of eventually co creating with the divine.
• 1:50:23
  Rupert Isaacson: So I think we should all listeners go on a retreat with Terry to
• 1:50:29
  co create this relationship with divine.
• 1:50:31
  Terry, how do we reach you?
• 1:50:32
  How do we find, how do we find you?
• 1:50:34
  How do we find out about you?
• 1:50:35
  Terry Kuebler: It would be my website is Terry Keebler.
• 1:50:38
  com.
• 1:50:39
  Rupert Isaacson: Can you spell that out for us, please?
• 1:50:42
  Terry Kuebler: T E R R Y K U E B L E R.
• 1:50:48
  Rupert Isaacson: And that's why Terry with a y and Keebler
• 1:50:51
  with a UE terry keebler.com.
• 1:50:54
  Terry Kuebler: Yes.
• 1:50:55
  And I'm in the process of developing like retreats and
• 1:50:59
  stuff now, so, so we'll be talking
• 1:51:02
  . Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:51:03
  Okay.
• 1:51:03
  I, I, I can't wait.
• 1:51:05
  And yes.
• 1:51:05
  Just for disclosure listeners, we'll probably be doing them on the east side of
• 1:51:08
  the Atlantic, hopefully at a place called Castle Lesley, which is amazing in, in
• 1:51:11
  Ireland, and to be determined stateside.
• 1:51:16
  But watch this space Terry it's It's, it's been an amazing conversation.
• 1:51:22
  Can we do it?
• 1:51:22
  Can we revisit this and come back and go a bit deeper next time?
• 1:51:27
  Sure.
• 1:51:27
  Terry Kuebler: Sure.
• 1:51:28
  I'd love to.
• 1:51:29
  Rupert Isaacson: Then I think with that, we've given everyone something to chew on.
• 1:51:36
  Would you say, go connect with your animals so that you can
• 1:51:39
  go connect with God, basically?
• 1:51:42
  Terry Kuebler: Basically.
• 1:51:42
  Basically.
• 1:51:45
  Connect with yourself so you can connect with others so you can connect with
• 1:51:48
  the environment so you can connect with It's a chain, not a hierarchy.
• 1:51:58
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, that's the interesting thing, isn't it?
• 1:52:00
  Like the lion doesn't want to be in charge of you.
• 1:52:02
  The horse doesn't want to be in charge of you.
• 1:52:03
  They just want to, they just want to coexist with you.
• 1:52:06
  in the right way sometimes
• 1:52:13
  All right.
• 1:52:13
  All right.
• 1:52:14
  Well, thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:52:15
  Well, we will continue this.
• 1:52:17
  I continue to go deeper.
• 1:52:18
  It's been a real it's been a real pleasure terry.
• 1:52:21
  Terry Kuebler: Thank you.
• 1:52:22
  for having me
• 1:52:24
  Rupert Isaacson: Thank you for joining us.
• 1:52:25
  We hope you enjoyed today's podcast.
• 1:52:27
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• 1:52:32
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• 1:53:05
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