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Jamie Dimon · The David Rubenstein Show

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: The world's best known banker is Jamie Diamond, the longtime
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: CEO of JP Morgan. I had a chance to meet
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: with Jamie Diamond recently to talk about what's going on
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: in the financial world. He said he didn't want to
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: be Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, but maybe would
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: take a call to being Secretary of the Treasury. So
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: recently you've been talking about the importance of the United
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: States and are celebrating our two hundred and fiftieth but
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: also investing in things that are security related. What made
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: you focus on that and you're now going to commit
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  Speaker 1: what a build trullion and a half dollars over the
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  Speaker 1: next ten years for this kind of investment.
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  Speaker 2: Why did you decide to do that?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I've always been a patriot, and like you know,
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  Speaker 3: you took here about growth, you know, growing the economy
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  Speaker 3: and the grievances of Americas, which is a lot of
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  Speaker 3: legitimates we're going to deal with and get policy right.
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  Speaker 3: But one of them was this notion that we ended
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  Speaker 3: up being so reliant on other people, some potential adversaries
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: for things critical to the security of the United States,
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  Speaker 3: and it wasn't just us it's our allies too. So
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  Speaker 3: we did some real research Acrourse twenty eight industry groups.
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  Speaker 3: And you're talking about rare earths, which you all know about,
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  Speaker 3: active pharmaceutical ingredients somebody may know about, you know, obviously
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  Speaker 3: military production, drones, air cyber or satellite what are the
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  Speaker 3: things you need for resiliency that we already did a
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  Speaker 3: lot of it, and we wanted to do more, realizing
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  Speaker 3: it was an important thing to do. How we got here,
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  Speaker 3: I don't like crinervers builled milk, but we should never
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: have been here. So that's two and a half dollars.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: My guesses will be quite a bit more than that
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  Speaker 3: by the time we're done. We've had a deluge of
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  Speaker 3: interest in it. Then we have We hired Todd Colms,
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  Speaker 3: who's just a world class investor and a world class
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: person who's got his own day lous coming in to
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  Speaker 3: invest ten billion and probably more. And we certainly probably
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: have partners in that in helping companies with growth capital
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: they need to grow to build the next plans or something.
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  Speaker 3: We did real research and supply chains. There's a lot
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  Speaker 3: of companies that provide what's important for basic important military
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: equipment that need help to grow there. They could be
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  Speaker 3: private companies or bigger companies. There's a venture capital component.
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  Speaker 3: We're also going to do research, so think around the
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  Speaker 3: ship building ecosystem. UH. And then and policy. A lot
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  Speaker 3: of things that are wronger policy reasons, how we how
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  Speaker 3: we're allowed to procure in the military, UH, things like
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  Speaker 3: permitting EPA laws. You know, if you want to keep
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: this country safe and secure, we need to do this work.
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  Speaker 3: We need to do it now and right away. It
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  Speaker 3: also will be extended to you know, nations in Europe, Australia, Japan,
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  Speaker 3: South Korea. And it's just important to do a national
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  Speaker 3: security you know, if you didn't, if you didn't get
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  Speaker 3: the wake up call in February when you know three
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  Speaker 3: hundred thousand Russian troops in Van and Ukraine, you know,
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  Speaker 3: the world's not safe. It was never safe. We just
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  Speaker 3: got loads of the false sense of security. The big,
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  Speaker 3: biggest safety to have is the strongest military in the planet.
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  Speaker 1: When the Great Recession happened, were you worried about the
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: viability of our financial system?
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  Speaker 2: Your bank was in pretty good shape.
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  Speaker 1: Where we worried that more than many investment banks and
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  Speaker 1: commercial bank want to go under.
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  Speaker 3: At that time, well a lot of them, did you know.
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  Speaker 3: And yeah, a lot of companies around the world, a
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  Speaker 3: lot of non banks around the world went bankrupt, you know,
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  Speaker 3: JP Morgan. We did a lot to keep people afloat.
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  Speaker 3: We took a lot of risks to do that. We
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  Speaker 3: work with governments around the world. It was it was terrifying,
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  Speaker 3: and it was you know, twenty four to seven, and
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  Speaker 3: you know, people just trying to do the right thing
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  Speaker 3: to make sure, you know, we kept through.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think there's a chance of something like that
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  Speaker 1: happy next couple of years, you think we're much better
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  Speaker 1: protected from that kind of problem.
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  Speaker 3: Well, there's there's no chance that you're gonna have that
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  Speaker 3: kind of problem, but you know, there are chances to
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  Speaker 3: have a problem somewhere somehow. You know. The biggest unknown
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  Speaker 3: is is geopolitics, you know, And it's not like you
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  Speaker 3: have to be dangerous, you carefully you talk about it's
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  Speaker 3: not like that's going to determine what the economy does
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  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty six, but it is a moving tectonic plate,
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  Speaker 3: you know, alliances. You know, obviously there's terrible war in Ukraine,
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  Speaker 3: which we need to do as much as we can
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  Speaker 3: to help Ukraine. But aid and embedded by an Russia
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  Speaker 3: and Russia somewhat by China. Those folks have told you
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  Speaker 3: they want to do. They want to dismantle the system
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  Speaker 3: set up they think by America, but they're set up
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  Speaker 3: by the Western world after World War two has been
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  Speaker 3: quite successful. Yeah, there are a lot of forces at play,
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  Speaker 3: and you know, and people are going to have to choose,
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  Speaker 3: you know, how they want to play this, play this
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  Speaker 3: for now. So yeah, that would be my greatest concern,
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  Speaker 3: and that's about the future of the free democratic world.
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  Speaker 3: That's not just about America.
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  Speaker 1: Are you worried about the over regulation that some people
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: in the banking world think that is occurring now or
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  Speaker 1: do you think the regulations are okay?
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  Speaker 2: Now?
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  Speaker 3: The problem with regulations when you talk to some people,
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  Speaker 3: it's always act like it's more or less well and
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  Speaker 3: a lot of you deal with regulations. I think you
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  Speaker 3: can create more liquidity in the system, you know, more
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  Speaker 3: capital uses, more learning capability, reduced rules and regulations which
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  Speaker 3: cause there was complaints about debanking and complaints about X.
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  Speaker 3: I think we could make the system better work, better, cheaper,
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  Speaker 3: work for more Americans, and safer. What bothers me the
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  Speaker 3: most is when we talk about regulations that no one
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  Speaker 3: ever steps back and say, what are we trying to accomplish?
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  Speaker 3: So why do we want to accomplish it? And what's
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  Speaker 3: better this or that? Because no matter what you do,
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  Speaker 3: their pros and cons banks are very strong today. But
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  Speaker 3: take the system as a whole. We've gone from eight
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  Speaker 3: thousand public companies to four thousand public companies. Is that
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  Speaker 3: what we wanted? Because that's what we did. We did
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  Speaker 3: it with no forethought, without even thinking about it. But
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  Speaker 3: it was you know, years of rules and regulations that
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  Speaker 3: made it costly and litigious and hard. And you know,
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  Speaker 3: we let institutes like ISS and Glass Lewis, you know,
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  Speaker 3: vote thirty percent of their shares in America, you know,
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  Speaker 3: and and so yeah, I'm quite concerned about that. We
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  Speaker 3: get regulations right, we all want safe financial systems, safe food,
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  Speaker 3: and safe but it doesn't mean you have to have
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  Speaker 3: endless regulations, regulations to be reviewed and improved all the time,
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  Speaker 3: as opposed to what we do today. I put that
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  Speaker 3: in a lot of policy, we just add things on
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  Speaker 3: top of things. And if you look at policy in America, well,
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  Speaker 3: affordable housing, it's all about policy, you know, zoning policies,
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  Speaker 3: permitting policies, housing policies. You know, it's all about policy.
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  Speaker 3: It's got not a damn thing to do that. People
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  Speaker 3: don't want to build homes or move into homes, you know,
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  Speaker 3: and I guess say it's about a mortgage business. We
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  Speaker 3: made it more expensive because the rules and regulations. Education.
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  Speaker 3: You know, we don't measure the outcomes of high schools
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  Speaker 3: and community colleges and colleges, how many jobs they get
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  Speaker 3: at what income levels. And we can do it. So
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  Speaker 3: look at work skills. We're gonna need two hundred thousand welders.
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  Speaker 3: We need welding in schools. So if governments canna have policies,
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  Speaker 3: have policy that aids and abets and sense and has
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  Speaker 3: the guardrails to create the right behaviors, you know, not
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  Speaker 3: endless policies that like slow things down, which is what
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  Speaker 3: we have. You know, we're going we're slowly going the
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  Speaker 3: way Europe. You know Europe. You may not know this
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  Speaker 3: has gone from ninety percent per person GDP of America
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  Speaker 3: to sixty five percent. That's what they've done. It was
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  Speaker 3: all policy. A lot of the policy is done in
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  Speaker 3: the name of good and that's what we do all
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  Speaker 3: the time. We're endless. You know, rules and regulations that
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  Speaker 3: create these things. I also think you all should learn
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  Speaker 3: to call it not red tape but blue tape. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: the Democrats love that crap, and then they want to
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  Speaker 3: make it litigious. You know that every flaw, however, that
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  Speaker 3: ever happens, is on purpose by by bad people. So policy,
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  Speaker 3: we need good policy, and we're gonna be fighting much
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  Speaker 3: more for good policy this year at JP Morgan.
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  Speaker 1: Now, are you worried about the size of the US debt?
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  Speaker 1: We have thirty eight trillion dollars of debt. We're adding
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  Speaker 1: two trillion every year. Do you see any way that's
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  Speaker 1: going to be solved? And do you worry that this
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  Speaker 1: is going to impact the value of the dollar at
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  Speaker 1: some point?
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  Speaker 3: So if you look at the economy today, there's a
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  Speaker 3: lot of good short term things, like think of this year.
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  Speaker 3: You know, the one big beautiful bill. There's a lot
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  Speaker 3: of stimulus they've fed is buying bonds again, that's you know,
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  Speaker 3: they don't call it Q I would, but it lifts
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  Speaker 3: up asset prices and stabilizes certain markets. Uh, Deregulation is real,
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  Speaker 3: and it's going to also drive animal spirits. A lot
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  Speaker 3: of investment coming to the United States and AI. That's
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  Speaker 3: all good, and that's probably going to drive stuff there
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  Speaker 3: are I call this geopolitics, and the deficit. I call
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  Speaker 3: it more like tectonic plates. They're difficult, they're moving, they
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  Speaker 3: may crash. We don't know, and we don't know when.
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  Speaker 3: So it isn't a twenty twenty six issue. But our
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  Speaker 3: deficit is almost two trillion dollars this year. Total dead
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  Speaker 3: is thirty trillion, then next year thirty two, then thirty
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  Speaker 3: four and thirty seven, then forty. It is not sustainable.
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  Speaker 3: It will not work eventually. I just don't know when.
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  Speaker 3: That is. The best anecdote is growth. I mean, if
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  Speaker 3: you just model anything, growth will make up for it.
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  Speaker 3: And that and growth could I always tell people a
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  Speaker 3: good policy is free, like we already spent eight hundred
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  Speaker 3: billion dollars in K to twelve, you know, stopping Piel
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  Speaker 3: from building stuff. It's free. It will create jobs, will
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  Speaker 3: create productivity, and so we have time to get the
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  Speaker 3: policy right to grow the economy, and then we have
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  Speaker 3: to start making some other choices too.
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  Speaker 1: Those are President of the United States said I'd like
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  Speaker 1: you to be Secretary of the Treasury.
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  Speaker 2: Or chairman of the Federal Reserve Board. What would you
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  Speaker 2: say to.
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  Speaker 3: That, Well, Chairman of the Fed, I'd put in the
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  Speaker 3: absolutely positivity, no chance, no way, no how for any reason. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: Secretary Treasury, I would considering if a president calls you
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: up and asks you to do something, you know you
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  Speaker 3: should consider it. So I would take the call and
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: consider it and think about why and what they want, etc.
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  Speaker 3: But what they want and how they want to operate,
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  Speaker 3: that would be important to me. I like my job.
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  Speaker 3: I've been my own boss for pretty much twenty five years,
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  Speaker 3: and I like it that way.
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  Speaker 1: So recently there's been some comment by you about the
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  Speaker 1: independence of the Federal Reserve Board. What more might you
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: want to say about your view about the importance of
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: the independence of the Federal Reserve Board?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, there are people too much incets building
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  Speaker 3: certain things. Everyone I know, including the President and United States,
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  Speaker 3: says we need an independent FED board. The question is
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  Speaker 3: only about when certain things take place, and think of
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  Speaker 3: lawsuits and stuff like that, does it chip away at
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  Speaker 3: that independence. It's some spectrum. So you can say a
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: little bit, you can say a lot, but you don't
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  Speaker 3: want to chip away too much because if you chip
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  Speaker 3: away too much. In my view, this is my opinion.
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  Speaker 3: It will drive rates higher, not lower. That's all.
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  Speaker 2: That's not a job you would take.
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  Speaker 1: If the President United States said to you, I'd love
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  Speaker 1: you to be a You'll be very independent, you wouldn't
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: think that.
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  Speaker 3: I would so much more prefer this job than that job.
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  Speaker 3: That's a hard job, but I don't want to do
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  Speaker 3: that job.
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  Speaker 1: You went to Harvard Business School graduate as a Baker scholar,
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  Speaker 1: top five percent of your class. You could have gone
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: to Goldman, Sachs, Morgan, Stanley, all the famous firms. You
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: chose to go work for a person who was a
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: friend of your father's name is Sandy Wall. You did that,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: and then when Sandy left, you stayed with him, and
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: then ultimately you guys went to City Corp. And then
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  Speaker 1: he fired you. Did you ever think then that you'd
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: be coming back and running the most important bank in
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: the world at the time you got fired there or
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: what were you thinking at that time? And I said
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: you should come into private equity. I went to see
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: you and I said, why don't you come to private equity?
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  Speaker 1: And you you didn't seem that interested.
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  Speaker 3: But the biggest money offer I ever got in My
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: life was from this guy over here. It was never
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: about money for me. And I knew after I got
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: fired that they were going to screw up city because
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: I knew how stupid some of the things they were
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: doing was. But no, and I didn't. I didn't think
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: that way. I just you know, I took time. I
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: thought all these various alternatives. I spoke to a lot
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: of people, you know, and then I went to bank one.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: I loved the home depot guys. They were talking to
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: me and but I had to confess to them and
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: I walked in. I'd never been in a home depot
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: until my friend made me go that weekend before I
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: had dinner with Arthur Blank, Bernie Marcus and Ken Langhn,
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: and I just loved their culture. But I'd never been
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: in a merchant business. And you know, bank Wom's there.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: I thought it was gonna be tough. I put half
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: my money into it. I have moved my money in Chicago.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: I loved Chicago. All I thought about is just do
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: the best you can. I mean, I don't like it
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: when senior people complain. I always had a no wine sign.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: Suck it up and do the job. That's that's all
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: it was, and that's I just go about the work,
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: you know, and division by division, person by person, department,
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: ve part tech by tech, you know, try to build
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: something great. I had my eye in JP Morgan Chase,
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: and you know a couple of years I thought it
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: would never happen because we were so small and not
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: doing well. But you know, four years later we had,
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: you know, done a good job at Bank one. The
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: values were close enough. Bill Harrison I know each other,
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: and we merged the two companies. Then I had a
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: dream that if we did it right, we can make
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: this a great company. Then I really did like that was.
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  Speaker 1: What do you think is the most important thing you
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: did that put JP Morgan ahead of every other bank
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: in the world. You worked harder, you hire better people
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: around you. What were the things that you think the
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: most important thing that made JP Morgan what it is today.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: A lot of people do things better, So to say
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: we're the best nervatives not right. And I think that's
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: one of the reasons. Sometimes we do better a little bit,
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: which is I'm relentless, go through system by system by
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: system by system, get out in the road, you know,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: visit other companies. They all do things better. Than you learn, learn, learn, learn, learn,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: and be runless about doing it. Big companies slow down,
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: they become complacent, they become bureaucratic. All that stuff arrogant,
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: you know, is the Petri Dish of politics. You know,
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: Jeff Bezos said, you know, that kind of stuff leads
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: to stasis and death. If you don't believe me, you know,
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: you look at all the companies who failed, huge wonderful companies.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: That's what management is. It's relentless attention to detail, getting
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: a strategy right, invest in your capital, not being behold
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: the people. But the most important is that the people
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: at their company can contribute to the best their ability.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: They know that you, the boss, don't know everything, and
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: they know that you just want to do the right
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: thing for the company, the client, of the community. And
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: that's the only goal. There's no other goal. We don't
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: pand it to Wall Street about quarterly earnings or stuff
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: like that. I've I've never spent any time in that
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: in my life. Just try to do the right thing
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: for the right reason, and do it quickly.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Your market capitalization is up about I guess it's about
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: the seven percent, and your stock price up about five
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: hundred percent.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: Or something like that, like a thousand percent, but go ahead, right,
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  Speaker 3: how much? Well we pay back. We put back a
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: lot of talk and paid a lot of dividends and
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: all of that.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so it's pretty good, tom So. People are
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: very happy. And so the question you get asked every day,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: five times a day is how much longer do you
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: want to do this? And the answer is five more years? Yeah,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: at least about five more years.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: I love what I do. It's up to the board
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: how long I do it? Although I have the energy
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: and the spit in the eye and the fire and
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: the gut. Yeah, I want to do it.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: You recently built a new building in New York. Why
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: did you decide to build your headquarters in New York?
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: You tore down the building you had built a new building,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: took a couple of years and costs maybe three billion
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: dollars or something like that, and it's now open. Are
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: you happy you made that decision? And are you going
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: to build a similar building in London?
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: Now? Yeah, we are. So if you look at what
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: we have. We spend forty billion dollars year on people,
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: which is important, four billion dollars a year on real estate.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: We want to have great real estate. The old building
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: wasn't fit for purpose. It was too small, couldn't handle
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: our trading floors. I'd looked everywhere. I looked downtown, I
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: looked a hundred yards. I looked at buying Vanderbilt. But
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: we could tear that building down. We could buy air rights,
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: you know. I thought it was the best location in
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: the best city.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Many people in the business world, they're out socializing all
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: kinds of other organizations.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: You don't do anything.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: You just run your bank and you spend time with
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: your family.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Isn't that boring?
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: No, my family, I love all of them. I got
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: seven grandkids and one more coming. We take our family
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: vacations together. That's the most important thing. The second most
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: important is my country that I do spend time on,
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: you know, with my own time, my own effort. My
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: company obviously gets involved. I love business. I think if
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: I you know, she's talk about, I don't do a
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: lot of black ties. I don't play golf, I don't
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: do red carpets. I do a little bit, you know,
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: But I love what I do. I mean, it's not
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: like I don't feel like I have any regrets at
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: all about doing that. And I feel. You know, if
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: JP Morgan Chase does well, I could help our employees.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: I help my clients, I help my communities, I help
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: my country, I help the world if I do a
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: good job. You know, I always tell people, you know,
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: if we don't keep j more healthy and vibrant, I
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: cannot do those things. That's on the other side of that.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: I lay people off. It's miserable. Your life is terrible,
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: and so I fight hard to make sure we're healthy
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: and vibrant.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Warren Buffett more or less invented the idea of writting
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: a letter to shareholders that everybody reads. You have done
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: the same and now warmed by if it's probably not
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: going to write, is there anymore and yours is widely read?
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: How much time do you put into writing that letter?
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: And do you get nervous that so many people are
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: going to pay attention to every single word?
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: You have to get it exactly right?
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah? I do all of that. So I bereaing his
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: letters my whole life. And in fact I got his
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: letters from nineteen fifty six when it was a partnership
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: in private, and he said, you just speach to your show
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: like your smart sister or mother or something like that.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Explain to them what you're doing and why you're doing it.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: So I do that. I make a list of questions.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: I get the questions, I do it myself. I ask shareholders,
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: I get my management team, or like what is the
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: most important stuff for JP Morgan and I kind of
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: make that list, I start writing. I spent a lot
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: of time on it. Very often. I used to answer
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: the question I don't know the answer, and I actually
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: do the work. So now I'm like doing a lot
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: of research while I'm writing the letter to answer the question.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: What are we going to do? Is what we did
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: the right thing? Should we do more of it? How
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: are you going to use it? You know, AI or
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: open banking? Whatever the question is debanking? What is the
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: real issue? Then I try to explain it in terms
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: to our people. And then I started doing public policy
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: because no bank is actually stronger, much stronger than the
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: country that lives in America. From twenty to twenty twenty
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: grow two percent a year. Had it grown three percent
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: a year, which I think was eminently achievable, our GDP
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: per person would be twenty thousand dollars more a year
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: today per person, which would afford a lot of safety nets,
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: a lot of infrastructure, had a lot of taxes, and
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: we didn't do it. And it's around, you know, basic things.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: So I started to do more of that. What are
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: the things that we could do that can force the growth,
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: secure the country, make it healthier place, lift up all
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: of our citizens. Almost all of the bad policies. We have,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: the thing that inner city schools don't work, immigration policy,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: you know, some of this that we're doing, immigration permitting policies, schools,
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: almost all of that hurts lower paid people more than
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: anyone in this room. So in some ways we could
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: ignore it because it's not really affecting us directly because
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: your kids don't go to those schools, You're not. I
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: was worried about that. You know, they have the lower
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: income folks of worse health care, worse job prospects, has
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: become intergenerational, their schools don't work, they have more crime.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: And that's what we did. That was us, That was
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: all policy, and you know, and then people stand behind
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: ideology and morality on both sides, you know, thinking that
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: they did stuff to fix it and they didn't, you know,
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: and so I, you know, I have a frustration around
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: that and obviously. I feel the same way about the
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: security and resiliency things, things like permitting. I always make
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: a list of what the more how we do with
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: mortgages and affordable housing, so we may start a new
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: one called the American Dream. We do a lot to
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: do mortgages, affordable housing, health care skills jobs. I would
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: double the urgum task cred or something like that. There
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: are a lot of things we could do that are
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: grows to three percent and help all of our citizens
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: and secure the nation. And we better do it pretty
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: quick because on the security side we don't have forever.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Of all the things you do, is the most enjoyed
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: able getting to meet with members of Congress when you
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: come down here. Is that an uplifting experience when you
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: come down and meet with members.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: How do you like that?
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: So you should know I do it all the time,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: you know, as part of my job. I like years ago,
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: I said, you know, government is another line of business.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: It is we take it seriously. And to make an
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: important point here, and the Chamber does this, which I
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: think they do a great job. But there are a
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: lot of people in the Congress, House and Senate who
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: want to do the right job and they need help
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: to do the right job. I'm not insulting their intelligence.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: They're quite bright, but you know they need the research,
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: the facts, the analysis to figure out what to do
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: when these complex issues come up. So I think we
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: all need to do it. And the only thing I'd
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: urge you all to do when you do it, don't
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: always make it parochial about your own self interest. It
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: should also be about what's in the interests in the United
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: States of America. You're all gonna do fine anyway. What
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: happens from you know, unions and government and businesses where
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: it's the self interest is so high it actually is
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: part of why we have two percent growth. And I
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: think we should all like open eyes a little bit,
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: make sure we do the right things. You know, it's
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: okay to fight for which for you, you know, for your
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: own interest. But uh, but there's too much of that
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: going on.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, you can't be working all the time. Do
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: you have any hobbies, do anything other than thorry about
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: worry about the JP Morgan.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: My daughters, who I also love deeply and I have
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: wonderful son in laws, once said to me, Dad, you
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: need more hobbies, And I was like, wait, what are
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: you talking about. We take all our family vacations together,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: you know, around the world. We enjoy it. I love history,
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: I love wine, I love music, I love reading, I
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: love arts, I love We watched movies together. That's really like,
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: I'm not looking to do other stuff. And we hike together,
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: so that's really like, those are my sports. We all
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: do the gym together. We have lunches and dinners together.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: We have family dinners like almost every Saturday or Sunday night.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: That's what I like and that's what I'm going to
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: do until I'm no longer here.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: And do you have you ever had your credit card denied?
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I mean you have a lot of anybody ever denied
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Jamie Diamonds.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Yes, my own credit cards designed me several times. And
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: what do you do?
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: What do you you tell them who you are? Well?
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: What doesn't work? To tell me who you are? And
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: they don't know who I am?
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Now? Did your parents live this year success? And what
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: did they say?
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Did they say we always knew you were going to
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: be the CEO of JP Morgan it was going to
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: do well?
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: Or what did they say My mom had a little
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: of that you'll be in general one day or something
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: like that. But they both died in twenty sixteen, literally
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: together in the same bed, the same within twelve hours
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: of each other, so they got to see, you know,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: a lot of it. We're quite proud. You know. My
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: grandparents were all Greek immigrants that didn't finish high school.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: So I'm part of that story. And they instilled in
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: all of us, you know, values and the values that
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: I have a purpose, work hard, make the world a
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: better place, treat everyone, treat everyone properly and equally.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: What would you like people to know the most about
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: JP Morgan if they walk away from here today? What
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: would you like people to take back in their head
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: about JP Morgan, about what it is, what it's done,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: or what it stands for.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: That we will stand by good clients and thicker thin
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: that we always try to be better. We are strong,
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: but that strength is for you. That we want their
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: community to be better, We want your companies to be better,
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: we want their country to be better. We'll do our
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: part making this a better world, and we do it
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: with a forethought and with every sinew of our body
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: is to try to do the best we can. And
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: if you and if we and we got knows we
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: make mistakes. We will say we made a mistake, we're sorry,
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: and we'll fix it. That's what we'll do.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen.