Latest / UK Column Radio / Syria Podcast Episode 11

Transcript

Syria Podcast Episode 11 · UK Column Radio

0:11
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to episode ten of the Syria Podcast
0:14
Speaker 1: and joined once again by Vanessa Billy. Thank you for
0:17
Speaker 1: joining me. Vanessa.
0:18
Speaker 2: Is it only number ten?
0:21
Speaker 3: It is?
0:21
Speaker 2: It seems like a very long time. We should have
0:23
Speaker 2: done more, Mike.
0:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, well we should, that is true.
0:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, lots has happened since the last episode, and well,
0:31
Speaker 1: I suppose the place to start might be with the
0:34
Speaker 1: supposed agreement or however it's described between the United States
0:40
Speaker 1: in Iran. We're recording this on Saturday, the twenty seventh,
0:45
Speaker 1: and I believe yesterday Trump did attack Iran once again
0:51
Speaker 1: for some spurious reason.
0:53
Speaker 3: But what's your view of the overall situation.
0:58
Speaker 2: Well, I think basically that you know, it's a long war.
1:02
Speaker 2: The MoU was a pause from many perspectives, and yes,
1:10
Speaker 2: allegedly Iran targeted I think as Singapore tanker that tried
1:15
Speaker 2: to transit the straighterformers without informing the IRGC. Trump then
1:23
Speaker 2: again allegedly bombed missile sites and launch areas in Iran
1:31
Speaker 2: and Iran or rather the IRGC have put out statements
1:34
Speaker 2: saying obviously they will retaliate, and so really as expected,
1:40
Speaker 2: I mean, for one thing, memorandum of understanding as we
1:44
Speaker 2: know it's not a binding agreement. In any case, there
1:48
Speaker 2: has been a lot of controversy over whether the Supreme
1:52
Speaker 2: Leader in Iran actually approved of the terms of the MoU,
1:56
Speaker 2: so we're still seeing a degree of schism between the
2:01
Speaker 2: more liberal factions within the Iranian government and the military wing,
2:07
Speaker 2: the IOGC, the Iranian military itself, and the Supreme Leader.
2:12
Speaker 2: But of course one of the main points of the
2:17
Speaker 2: agreement for Iran was the end of hostilities in Lebanon
2:24
Speaker 2: and the full withdrawal of the Zion's forces from southern
2:28
Speaker 2: Lebanon and also from north of the Latani River, where
2:31
Speaker 2: of course, originally they were saying first of all they
2:33
Speaker 2: wanted a five kilometer buffer zone on the border with Lebanon,
2:38
Speaker 2: then that extended to a ten kilometer buffer zone and
2:41
Speaker 2: incursions into central southern Lebanon and then north of the
2:45
Speaker 2: Latani River. Because originally they were saying they wanted the
2:49
Speaker 2: area south of the Latani River, they've now crossed the
2:52
Speaker 2: Latani River and they're trying to take an area of
2:56
Speaker 2: territory north of the river and bordering Syria, and so
3:04
Speaker 2: that being part of the MoU or rather at the
3:08
Speaker 2: top of the MoU for Iran. There has been a
3:15
Speaker 2: very shaky ceasefire in the last few days. When I
3:20
Speaker 2: say shaky, not from the perspective of Hezbollah other than
3:24
Speaker 2: retaliating against ground attacks from Zionist forces that have not
3:29
Speaker 2: withdrawn from inside Lebanon, but there have been continued drone strikes,
3:35
Speaker 2: firing on civilians, on funeral processions and so on, and
3:41
Speaker 2: so from that perspective, there certainly isn't any degree of
3:45
Speaker 2: ceasefire here in Lebanon. And I don't know the next
3:50
Speaker 2: step to talk about, I guess is the latest MoU
3:55
Speaker 2: here in Lebanon signed between Israel and Alaman within the
4:00
Speaker 2: Lebanese regime that have of course betrayed the resistance and
4:05
Speaker 2: are effectively trying to disarm and eradicate the resistance on
4:10
Speaker 2: behalf of Washington, Tel Aviv and react.
4:14
Speaker 1: We will come on to that in a second, but
4:15
Speaker 1: just before we do that, because just over a week
4:20
Speaker 1: is going to be the funeral of Himini. So what
4:23
Speaker 1: I had in mind was to ask whether you think
4:26
Speaker 1: that is a potential target for any kind of nastiness
4:33
Speaker 1: by Israel or the United States despite the memorandum of understanding.
4:37
Speaker 2: It's quite interesting that The funeral day is the fourth
4:41
Speaker 2: of July, which is a curious choice of date for me.
4:48
Speaker 2: Some people are saying it's kind of a signal to
4:52
Speaker 2: the US as to how they perceive the fourth of
4:55
Speaker 2: July to be very much now an Iranian focused. I
5:01
Speaker 2: don't want to say ceremony, but action or celebration of
5:06
Speaker 2: the life of the Supreme Leader. The funeral of Sayatasan
5:14
Speaker 2: Nasrolla in Lubanon back in September twenty twenty five, if
5:21
Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken, was threatened by Israel and the United States, because,
5:27
Speaker 2: of course, there were dignitaries from all over the regional
5:32
Speaker 2: resistance countries, including Yemen and Iraq. There were Syrian Arab
5:39
Speaker 2: Army commanders that had left Syria in December twenty twenty four,
5:45
Speaker 2: and there were plans, according to reports, that Israel and
5:50
Speaker 2: the US would bomb and assassinate, decapitate much of the leadership.
5:56
Speaker 2: There were then threats from Yemen and Iran that if
6:00
Speaker 2: this were to happen, there would be retaliation from Iran
6:04
Speaker 2: and Yemen, and so therefore we had that fly over
6:08
Speaker 2: by for Israeli jets twice over the funeral procession as
6:16
Speaker 2: a sort of symbolic gesture. I remember Natanyahu's saying these
6:19
Speaker 2: were the jets that assassinated said Nostrolla. Many people in
6:26
Speaker 2: Iran are saying, why is the funeral now? Because the
6:29
Speaker 2: war isn't over, and so they're saying it's particularly dangerous
6:33
Speaker 2: to have it now in the midst of what they
6:36
Speaker 2: perceived to be the long war as we talked about,
6:41
Speaker 2: and the number of dignitaries from all over the Shea
6:46
Speaker 2: Islamic world that are likely to be there makes it
6:50
Speaker 2: a huge target for Asrael arm and for the US
6:56
Speaker 2: and the enemies of Iran that of course includes the
6:59
Speaker 2: Zionist Arabs, dates Azerbaijan and many of the neighboring countries
7:04
Speaker 2: or elements within the neighboring countries. So in my opinion, yes,
7:10
Speaker 2: I know that Iran has invited a huge number of
7:13
Speaker 2: Western journalists and activists to go and participate in the funeral,
7:20
Speaker 2: which will also take place of course in Karbolo in Iraq,
7:23
Speaker 2: and I think across three cities in Iran, mashed Tehran
7:28
Speaker 2: and kN As far as I know.
7:30
Speaker 1: Do you think that even despite the number of journalists
7:35
Speaker 1: and an activists that will be there, that in fact
7:37
Speaker 1: the United states Israel really won't care about that.
7:42
Speaker 2: I think it's a very high risk situation, Yes, particularly
7:46
Speaker 2: as we've seen a degree of escalation just prior, like
7:50
Speaker 2: in the last as you said twenty four hours, there
7:54
Speaker 2: is potential for an explosion in Lebanon. Troulla in Yemen
8:01
Speaker 2: have issued a challenge to Saudi Arabia. They're saying now
8:05
Speaker 2: that they do not accept Saudi Arabian influence anywhere in Yemen,
8:10
Speaker 2: that Yemen will not be a divided state. That is
8:16
Speaker 2: a pretty major threat that is actually issuing a threat
8:19
Speaker 2: to neighboring Saudi Arabia. So I think we're seeing a
8:23
Speaker 2: degree of escalation which for me determines the level of
8:29
Speaker 2: threat during the funeral years.
8:33
Speaker 1: Yes, and yeah, clearly no political pushback on the on
8:38
Speaker 1: the US side. But okay, let's let's move on to
8:41
Speaker 1: Lebanon proper then, And as you say, another member and
8:44
Speaker 1: of understanding, signed. I suppose one of the things that
8:49
Speaker 1: I'm particularly interested in is when I listen to sorry
8:53
Speaker 1: to say this, the BBC or any of this real
8:56
Speaker 1: Western ukas. Yeah, media, you know, the narrative is put
9:04
Speaker 1: forward that Hespital has something absolutely separate from from the
9:10
Speaker 1: Lebanese state. And therefore, you know this memor memorand of
9:14
Speaker 1: understanding is something that is credible despite Hasbela's existence. And
9:22
Speaker 1: so I'd be interested in your comments on this entire
9:25
Speaker 1: narrative that's put forward by Western media.
9:28
Speaker 2: Well Western media are effectively channeling, of course, is really narrative, Michael,
9:35
Speaker 2: like the Israeli ambassador to the US, from the start
9:41
Speaker 2: of the negotiations, which were of course rejected by the
9:45
Speaker 2: majority of people actually in Luban, not only in the
9:48
Speaker 2: south and members of the hospital or community, but generally
9:53
Speaker 2: to have direct talks with a country that is bombing
9:57
Speaker 2: the people of Lebanon, massacring children, bombing hospital schools, detonating
10:04
Speaker 2: entire villages, etc. The narrative that has been put forward
10:11
Speaker 2: by Israel is that Hezbolla is a proxy of Iran
10:15
Speaker 2: and as such it's a terrorist organization that must be
10:18
Speaker 2: uprooted from Lebanon in order for peace to be made possible.
10:24
Speaker 2: Of course Lebanon. Israel doesn't care about anyone in Lebanon.
10:30
Speaker 2: I mean, anyone who assumes that this narrative has any
10:34
Speaker 2: truth to it whatsoever are very foolish, because we see
10:38
Speaker 2: how Christians are treated in occupied territories of Palestine. We
10:43
Speaker 2: see how other members of the Arab world, like for example,
10:47
Speaker 2: in Syria, are treated by the Zionists when their territory
10:53
Speaker 2: is invaded. And so therefore this narrative is what basically
10:58
Speaker 2: underpins not not in quite such strong language, but it
11:02
Speaker 2: underpins the MIU so effectively what it's saying it's relatively long,
11:07
Speaker 2: so I'm not going to go into all the details,
11:09
Speaker 2: but the main points are it is a collective punishment
11:14
Speaker 2: of Hesbolara and anyone that is resisting Israel and Israeli
11:18
Speaker 2: expansion into Lebanon. What it is effectively saying is that
11:25
Speaker 2: only the Lebanese government and the Lebanese state have the
11:29
Speaker 2: right to defend themselves, which is interesting because the United
11:33
Speaker 2: States has kept the Lebanese army at a level where
11:36
Speaker 2: it can't defend itself at all, and that anyone operating
11:42
Speaker 2: outside of that structure is considered illegal. So effectively, what
11:49
Speaker 2: they're saying they are designating Hesbalero terrorist group in other words,
11:55
Speaker 2: or a militia, rather than being part of the fabric
11:58
Speaker 2: of Lebanon and having been defending themselves since nineteen eighty two.
12:03
Speaker 2: Pre nineteen eighty two, when Israel invaded Lebanon, there was
12:08
Speaker 2: no Hezbola. Just for people to understand, these resistance movements
12:13
Speaker 2: grow out of Israeli aggression, not the other way around. Right,
12:18
Speaker 2: Israeli aggression doesn't happen because there is a resistance group.
12:22
Speaker 2: The resistance group is forced to form itself because of
12:26
Speaker 2: the ongoing aggression from the Zionist forces and militia. And
12:33
Speaker 2: then one part of the agreement, which I found absolutely criminal,
12:40
Speaker 2: to continue to kind of divorce the state, the Lebanese state,
12:45
Speaker 2: from Hesbollar and the communities of the South. They effectively
12:49
Speaker 2: say that Trump has promised investment by Allied nations. Of
12:55
Speaker 2: course this means Saudi Arabia keta uae qweight with the
13:01
Speaker 2: exception of all communities associated with Hesbola. So what is
13:07
Speaker 2: this actually saying. This is actually saying we'll bring money
13:11
Speaker 2: in an investment. In other words, the neo colonialist project
13:14
Speaker 2: will come in and invest in your infrastructure. And so basically,
13:18
Speaker 2: we control you, we occupy you, but we're not going
13:22
Speaker 2: to provide any money for the South to rebuild itself.
13:26
Speaker 2: And of course we know that there are plans very
13:29
Speaker 2: similar to in Gaza with Jared Kushner, Tony Blair, President
13:34
Speaker 2: Tramp and so on, saying that they're going to invest
13:38
Speaker 2: in the South and turn it into another kind of
13:40
Speaker 2: free trade zone. Right, So when you look at it
13:44
Speaker 2: in this picture, it's complete ethnic cleansing, effectively, like the
13:50
Speaker 2: communities associated with Hesbela, or even just the supporters of
13:54
Speaker 2: Hesbela that can come from within the Christian communities here,
13:57
Speaker 2: the Sunni islam communities, communities. If you support has Bla,
14:03
Speaker 2: that investment is not going to be made available to you.
14:06
Speaker 2: And then there have also been independent reports of the
14:11
Speaker 2: fact that America will start funding and arming elements within
14:16
Speaker 2: the Lebanese armed forces to combat haze Ballad. So we're
14:21
Speaker 2: looking at a kind of super ice agency in a way,
14:27
Speaker 2: given the weapons and the legitimacy to wager war against
14:32
Speaker 2: has Blah, power multiplied by the United States. So another
14:37
Speaker 2: proxy force basically within Lebanon. I don't quite know how
14:42
Speaker 2: that's going to work out, because the Lebanese armed forces,
14:45
Speaker 2: as we've talked about before, are a large majority of
14:50
Speaker 2: them are going to be sheer Muslim. Another section within
14:56
Speaker 2: them are going to be pro the resistance. So it
14:59
Speaker 2: may be even that America brings in its own forces
15:04
Speaker 2: and puts on the masks and uniform and uses them
15:09
Speaker 2: against Hezbolla. I'm speculating, but that would be one way
15:12
Speaker 2: that they might do it, and it's not you know,
15:15
Speaker 2: it's not outside the spheres of possibility basically.
15:19
Speaker 1: And of course the question has always been why do
15:22
Speaker 1: they need this massive embassy structure. It's fast, right, so
15:31
Speaker 1: there's there's probably room for them to bring troops in there, right.
15:35
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's an entire complex that hers underground passages.
15:40
Speaker 2: It connects directly to the coastal areas so to any
15:43
Speaker 2: naval presence that they may want to bring in. It
15:47
Speaker 2: has helicopter pads, it has mass surveillance. I mean, anyone
15:51
Speaker 2: living close to the mountain that they've basically requisitioned for
15:57
Speaker 2: the embassy has terrible interference with their Internet and so
16:01
Speaker 2: on at certain points in the day. So yeah, it's very,
16:06
Speaker 2: very possible. And they're directly connected into the security services
16:11
Speaker 2: here in Lebanon. I mean, I mean it's a revolving
16:14
Speaker 2: door process between the two.
16:16
Speaker 1: Let's move on to the series situation now, because a
16:19
Speaker 1: couple of days ago, I can't remember who was saying this,
16:22
Speaker 1: it was Britain or EU or United States, can't remember
16:25
Speaker 1: exactly it was. Somebody was suggesting to Israel that they
16:28
Speaker 1: need to normalize relations with the new Syrian regime, and
16:32
Speaker 1: I'm thinking himself, yeah, right, because that hasn't been the
16:35
Speaker 1: case for years actually. But you know, you have been
16:40
Speaker 1: on the UK col News program over the last number
16:43
Speaker 1: of weeks talking about the potential for incursion into Lebanon
16:48
Speaker 1: from the Syrian side by Jilani's forces.
16:51
Speaker 3: Where are we at with that at the moment.
16:53
Speaker 2: Well, we've seen since December twenty twenty four, we've seen
16:58
Speaker 2: a number of incursions by Jolani's forces. In my opinion,
17:02
Speaker 2: those were kind of probing the border security, seeing what
17:08
Speaker 2: the reaction would be from the tribesmen, for example in
17:11
Speaker 2: the Bekar and so on. There are a number of
17:16
Speaker 2: important factors here. Number one, back in May, Trump made
17:20
Speaker 2: a comment about weaponizing Syria against Hezbollah. That kind of slid,
17:28
Speaker 2: But then if you remember, in the last couple of weeks,
17:30
Speaker 2: he's been making some very strong statements that he'll use
17:33
Speaker 2: Syria against Lebanon, against Hezbola because Israel hasn't done a
17:38
Speaker 2: very good job, which to a large degree is true.
17:42
Speaker 2: You know on the ground, Israel has failed to achieve
17:47
Speaker 2: its objectives. In the south. It's been trying to take
17:52
Speaker 2: the Alitaha Hill for about three weeks, and I mean
17:55
Speaker 2: it's busy retrieving bodies and hardware from there for the
18:00
Speaker 2: last few days during the so called ceasefire. Now at
18:06
Speaker 2: the same time, and I've written about this, there has
18:10
Speaker 2: been a major build up in Syria from west of
18:15
Speaker 2: south of Tartus, west of hom So if people imagine
18:20
Speaker 2: the Lebanese Syrian border, all along the border from the
18:24
Speaker 2: north to the east, almost to the south, as far
18:27
Speaker 2: as the main border crossing the Masna border crossing, which
18:31
Speaker 2: is the main civilian and heavy goods crossing border point.
18:39
Speaker 2: Jilani has been establishing a strike force. There's no way
18:44
Speaker 2: that this can be described as a defense force. It's
18:46
Speaker 2: a strikeforce. It has established surveillance points, radar areas. It's
18:53
Speaker 2: taken control of the high points in the Kalamun Mountains.
18:57
Speaker 2: According to reports that I'm receiving, around seventy thousand fighters
19:02
Speaker 2: have been basically gathered in this entire area. Ukrainian forces
19:11
Speaker 2: are there now. Since Zelenski's visit, which was I think
19:16
Speaker 2: on April the sixth, Ukrainian forces have been entering Syria
19:21
Speaker 2: and gathering to the west of Alapo in the north
19:24
Speaker 2: and south of Tatus, to the north of Lebanon.
19:26
Speaker 3: What kind of numbers are we talking about do you know.
19:28
Speaker 2: Of Ukrainian No, I don't know. That's quite difficult information
19:32
Speaker 2: to get hold of. But if you remember I was
19:36
Speaker 2: reporting on that pre December twenty twenty four, Ukrainian forces
19:42
Speaker 2: were an EdLib for about a year before the fall
19:45
Speaker 2: of Damascus, and they were training Jilani's militia. They were
19:49
Speaker 2: providing drone technology support and drones, which of course were
19:55
Speaker 2: used very effectively by Jilani when he first of all
19:59
Speaker 2: attacked and then proceeded as far as Damascus. And so
20:04
Speaker 2: one has to assume that they are there for the
20:06
Speaker 2: same reason. And as I said, it's the build up
20:09
Speaker 2: as happened dramatically since Zelenski's visit. Now, of course, this
20:17
Speaker 2: puts Russia in an interesting position because they've maintained their
20:21
Speaker 2: base in Home and Mime. Again, according to what I'm hearing,
20:25
Speaker 2: there is potential for an attack on Homo Meme because
20:29
Speaker 2: Ukraine perceives Syria is an extension of its war against
20:33
Speaker 2: Russia and of course, when we talk about Ukraine, we're
20:37
Speaker 2: also talking about NATO in the US. So what I've
20:43
Speaker 2: actually always said this is an extension of the war
20:46
Speaker 2: against Russia as well as being the war against Iran
20:50
Speaker 2: and the resistance access here. That doesn't mean that I
20:53
Speaker 2: put Russia in any kind of alliance with the resistance axis.
20:58
Speaker 2: Just to be very clear, I don't said of that
21:00
Speaker 2: at all. Russia, of course, it's not going to be
21:04
Speaker 2: able to do anything, just as it did nothing to
21:07
Speaker 2: actually prevent the Ukrainian presence in EdLib, which, if you remember,
21:12
Speaker 2: Idlib was under the control of the deconfliction agreement that
21:16
Speaker 2: was made between Iran, Turkey and Russia, so Russia and
21:19
Speaker 2: Turkey were effectively patrolling Idlib. There's no way on earth
21:23
Speaker 2: that Russia didn't know that Ukraine was building up forces
21:27
Speaker 2: and presents in Edlerb at the same time. Of course,
21:30
Speaker 2: it clearly knows what Ukraine is doing right now again
21:34
Speaker 2: inside Syria, but the very fact that the Ukrainian forces
21:39
Speaker 2: are there suggests to me, of course, just as happened
21:43
Speaker 2: in Edlob, that we're looking at potential for military action.
21:48
Speaker 1: Okay, well, that's it's a great example of how you
21:52
Speaker 1: know when we're talking about because obviously this program is seriocentric,
21:57
Speaker 1: but uh, these conflicts are all connected, and so exactly.
22:04
Speaker 1: This is absolutely a great example of it. We've got
22:06
Speaker 1: to always keep in mind that it's our tax payer
22:08
Speaker 1: money that's going to create these problems in the first place.
22:13
Speaker 2: Well, and who's supplying the weapons, Mike, who's you know,
22:16
Speaker 2: because we know that in fact, someone who's kind of
22:20
Speaker 2: posed this argument to me, well, how can Jelani do anything?
22:23
Speaker 2: He doesn't have any weapons, because if you remember, Israel
22:26
Speaker 2: bomb the former Syrian Arab army defensive and offensive capability
22:31
Speaker 2: the day after Damascus fell. It destroyed air defense, it
22:35
Speaker 2: destroyed air force capability, and so on. But I'm actually
22:39
Speaker 2: just researching and writing now about the weapons that have
22:45
Speaker 2: been basically funneled into Syria. And of course we knew
22:50
Speaker 2: that previously during the regime change, for the White Helmets
22:54
Speaker 2: were one of the conduits for bringing equipment in. If
22:57
Speaker 2: you remember when we could see the foreign spending, you
23:02
Speaker 2: could see that a huge amount of money was coming
23:04
Speaker 2: to the White Helmets allegedly to buy thermal imaging equipment,
23:10
Speaker 2: to buy photography equipment and so on. And I remember
23:14
Speaker 2: you and I were always saying that how many cameras
23:16
Speaker 2: do they need? But of course this equipment was effectively
23:19
Speaker 2: going to the armed groups, the terrorist armed groups inside
23:23
Speaker 2: Syria to wage the war against the Syrian government, people
23:27
Speaker 2: and allies and forces. And I can safely say that
23:35
Speaker 2: Jolani has been receiving weapons. Of course, he doesn't have
23:38
Speaker 2: air defense. That's Israel's red line, right because they want
23:43
Speaker 2: to be able to use Syrian airspace to target Iran,
23:48
Speaker 2: So the Syrian airspace is off limits. But bringing in artillery,
23:53
Speaker 2: bringing in radar equipment, surveillance equipment, AI tech, bringing in
24:00
Speaker 2: small weapons, which at the end of the day, that's
24:02
Speaker 2: all they need because Hezbela doesn't have an air force, right,
24:07
Speaker 2: so they only need small weapons. And those are definitely yes,
24:13
Speaker 2: But then so does Jolani. Now with the Ukrainian entry
24:17
Speaker 2: into it, this is the problem. So you're going to
24:19
Speaker 2: be seeing FPV drones used by Jolani and we've seen
24:24
Speaker 2: how devastating that has been in use against the Zionist forces.
24:31
Speaker 2: Ukraine is specifically there for the drone technology, right, Yes,
24:36
Speaker 2: that's what they provided previously and that's clearly what they're
24:40
Speaker 2: providing right now. At the same time, of course, what
24:43
Speaker 2: they are doing is siphoning out the foreign mercenaries that
24:48
Speaker 2: Jorlani quite wants to get rid of into Ukraine to
24:52
Speaker 2: fight Russia. Again, that was similar to what they were
24:55
Speaker 2: doing previously and EdLib.
24:57
Speaker 1: Also another question of my mind is because obviously whenever
25:01
Speaker 1: the regime change happened in Syria in twenty twenty four,
25:05
Speaker 1: quite a number of people got themselves across the border
25:08
Speaker 1: into Lebanon, and so I'm wondering how many Syrian Arab
25:14
Speaker 1: army people manage to do that, And there is there
25:18
Speaker 1: a capability with it on the Lebanese side of the
25:20
Speaker 1: border to assist in dealing with any potential incursion by
25:25
Speaker 1: Jilani forces.
25:26
Speaker 2: Well, not only on the Lebanese side, also the Iraqi side,
25:31
Speaker 2: because the Iraqi resistance has been very clear over the
25:35
Speaker 2: last few months that if Jolani attacks Lebanon, Iraq will
25:39
Speaker 2: attack Jolani and they'll had to Damascus.
25:46
Speaker 1: So this is a real potential to escalate to being
25:49
Speaker 1: a much bigger thing than just Lebanon.
25:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be, it'll ask if it happens, it will
25:55
Speaker 2: escalate to a huge ground war. You know, this isn't
25:59
Speaker 2: just to be a kinetic missile war. This will be
26:03
Speaker 2: a heavy ground war. Yeah, you're absolutely right that there
26:11
Speaker 2: were a number of Syrian Arabami that entered Lebanon around
26:15
Speaker 2: thirty thousand. They are positioned in the Becca area, so
26:21
Speaker 2: on that eastern border, and so they will make up
26:25
Speaker 2: definitely a part of the defense force in Iraq. There's
26:30
Speaker 2: an estimated seventy thousand, So again that's a major force
26:37
Speaker 2: to enter Syria. Should Gilani be pushed into carrying out
26:42
Speaker 2: the intervention in Lebanon, because we have to remember, oh,
26:49
Speaker 2: Syria is itself an explosive environment right now. Even the
27:00
Speaker 2: moderate I hate using that word moderate because that's what
27:04
Speaker 2: they used in the narratives to run the regime change war,
27:07
Speaker 2: of course, but when I'm talking about moderate Sunni Muslims,
27:13
Speaker 2: I'm talking about those that don't comply with Jolani's tach theory,
27:17
Speaker 2: hardline sectarian ideology. The street violence and the continued ethnic
27:25
Speaker 2: cleansing and spot targeting, abduction of women, rape, theft, thuggery,
27:35
Speaker 2: just continued thuggery, lawlessness, lack of system. I mean, there's
27:40
Speaker 2: no security now in Syria and there's mass poverty. Despite
27:45
Speaker 2: all the claims by Jolanni that there's investment coming in.
27:48
Speaker 2: We're seeing exactly what happened, and you were at two
27:51
Speaker 2: posts two thousand and three. All these claims of investment
27:55
Speaker 2: are just a way of laundering money. Nothing's actually coming
27:58
Speaker 2: into the Seri people themselves. And very recently, in fact,
28:06
Speaker 2: yesterday we saw the televised trial of the former Grand
28:12
Speaker 2: Mufti Hassun, someone that I met on a number of occasions,
28:18
Speaker 2: who is shown in a cage being grilled in the courtroom. Now,
28:25
Speaker 2: he was someone who always preached unity. He orchestrated the
28:31
Speaker 2: release of some of the supporters of the so called revolution.
28:35
Speaker 2: His own son was assassinated. He went to the prison
28:38
Speaker 2: to forgive those that killed his son. He was known
28:43
Speaker 2: as progressive, humane, looking for the unity of the Syrian people. Yes,
28:51
Speaker 2: he spoke out against the enemies of the republic, of
28:55
Speaker 2: course he did. And so arm for this Sunni Muslims,
29:02
Speaker 2: this is a step too far for them to see
29:05
Speaker 2: him caged like this and being grilled over his connections
29:09
Speaker 2: to the former government, when in reality he was the
29:13
Speaker 2: religious leader. Right, So the boiling point has almost been
29:20
Speaker 2: reached inside Syria, where people in Syria are going to
29:23
Speaker 2: turn against Jolani. At the same time, what you're seeing
29:27
Speaker 2: is a large element of that strikeforce is Turkish run,
29:32
Speaker 2: Turkish intelligence run, right. And what we saw in the
29:37
Speaker 2: last two days was the assassination by the US of
29:42
Speaker 2: one of the leaders of what is now Al Kaeda
29:46
Speaker 2: in Syria, Haras Alden. I'll explain that a bit more
29:49
Speaker 2: in a bit, because I know people get very confused
29:52
Speaker 2: over who is al Kaeda and who isn't right. They
29:55
Speaker 2: all have the same ideology effectively, but it's the rebranding.
30:00
Speaker 2: So Sammy Aloraidi was assassinated by the US coalition in
30:05
Speaker 2: the last couple of days. Why because he has maintained
30:11
Speaker 2: the al Qaeda doctrine, the hardline doctrine, which also makes
30:15
Speaker 2: an enemy of the worst. Of course, in order to
30:18
Speaker 2: keep Jolani in power, the US in EdLib and now
30:23
Speaker 2: that he is, you know, qhistling ruler of Syria are
30:28
Speaker 2: effectively assassinating those that might oppose him. And the reason
30:34
Speaker 2: that Aloraidi was also assassinated is that he was opposed
30:38
Speaker 2: to the invasion of Lebanon because he considered actually that
30:43
Speaker 2: Russia should be the number one target, because Russia was
30:46
Speaker 2: the one that bombed their groups during the regime change war.
30:50
Speaker 2: Why do we want to start a war, an intra
30:54
Speaker 2: Islamic war now when we have enemies still occupying our land.
30:57
Speaker 2: That's one reason. The other is that Turkey, that has
31:03
Speaker 2: intelligence control over these factions right is saying no, no, no, no,
31:11
Speaker 2: I'm not allowing my proxies to be part of the
31:14
Speaker 2: strikeforce until you give me guarantees that my sphere of
31:18
Speaker 2: influence will extend into northern Lebanon and into the Eastern
31:24
Speaker 2: Mediterranean Maritime economic corridor. So there's there's this jostlingk for
31:32
Speaker 2: power and influence here, which of course Israel is going
31:35
Speaker 2: to be opposed to, just as it's opposed to Turkey
31:39
Speaker 2: expanding beyond the northern borders of Syria into central Syria.
31:43
Speaker 2: As soon as Turkey tried to do that, Israel bombed
31:47
Speaker 2: their military establishments, their air defense, and their positions in
31:51
Speaker 2: Palmyra and Homs. So Turkey is effectively blackmailing the US
31:59
Speaker 2: and Israel into promising them or giving them a guarantee
32:03
Speaker 2: of dominance in northern Lebanon, where they've been effectively extending
32:10
Speaker 2: influence through soft power, NGOs, civil society and so on.
32:16
Speaker 2: For some time. So again we're seeing the second layer
32:22
Speaker 2: conflict between Turkey and Israel in their expansionist policy.
32:27
Speaker 1: I mean, I completely understand why it becomes very difficult
32:30
Speaker 1: for people to follow all.
32:31
Speaker 2: The various For me, I mean it's yeah.
32:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, But just coming back to the former Syrian Arab
32:41
Speaker 1: army forces, did you say thirty thousand in Lebanon? What
32:45
Speaker 1: what's the attitude of the Lebanese authorities to their presence there?
32:51
Speaker 1: And I mean are these people actually armed at the moment.
32:54
Speaker 3: Ah.
32:55
Speaker 2: That's another important point because the reason that this area,
33:05
Speaker 2: the border area between Syria and Lebanon is so important
33:09
Speaker 2: to Israel because it's not about degrading only degrading Husbala
33:15
Speaker 2: in the south. The main missile production, storage technology development
33:26
Speaker 2: is underground in the mountain range on the border, and
33:32
Speaker 2: so that's why the potential is that Jilani will be used.
33:36
Speaker 2: They can't bombit, it's too deep underground. Just this is
33:39
Speaker 2: exactly the same problem they had in Syria until there
33:43
Speaker 2: was no air defense and they could use the heavy
33:46
Speaker 2: bunker buster bombs to destroy many of the research and
33:51
Speaker 2: development centers inside Syria that they'd been trying to destroy
33:55
Speaker 2: throughout the fourteen years of war against the former government,
34:01
Speaker 2: and for this reason, Israel needs a ground force to
34:04
Speaker 2: take control of this area, to give them access to
34:08
Speaker 2: these underground facilities, because while they've been trying to bomb them,
34:13
Speaker 2: they haven't really been able to destroy them. And so
34:20
Speaker 2: this is the greater part of Hesbla's power, if you like,
34:24
Speaker 2: is their ability to store, manufacture, develop weapon systems in
34:31
Speaker 2: these underground centers. The thing is and again again it
34:38
Speaker 2: becomes complex. So while on one level, of course hes
34:43
Speaker 2: Bla is the enemy of the state, the state as
34:45
Speaker 2: it kind of sees itself right now, and there are
34:49
Speaker 2: elements within that state that support has Bala or at
34:53
Speaker 2: least look for unity within Lbanon itself, so they don't
34:58
Speaker 2: want to necessarily end up in a civil war, which
35:01
Speaker 2: of course is I think there have been statements in
35:04
Speaker 2: the last twenty four hours from Israeli officials saying that great,
35:09
Speaker 2: you know, we're succeeding in igniting a civil war, because
35:13
Speaker 2: of course, after the memorandum of understanding was released last night,
35:17
Speaker 2: there were mass protests on the streets against the betrayal
35:22
Speaker 2: by the government of Hesbala and the communities in the south,
35:26
Speaker 2: which is like forty to fifty percent of the population,
35:30
Speaker 2: and those protests were put down violently by the armed forces.
35:35
Speaker 2: Now who those armed forces were exactly, we still don't know.
35:39
Speaker 2: There is potential that the US is bringing elements in
35:43
Speaker 2: to crack down on any descent and also to enrage
35:47
Speaker 2: to a level of civil strife within Lubanon itself, which
35:52
Speaker 2: again serves Israel. But from the perspective of there being
35:58
Speaker 2: a Syrian techy invasion of Lebanon, the authorities and the
36:05
Speaker 2: people of Lebanon would look to Hesbillad to defend them.
36:09
Speaker 2: So the state cannot at this point turn the rest
36:13
Speaker 2: of the population against it by publicly saying it won't
36:19
Speaker 2: allow Hesbilad to defend the country against attack theory invasion
36:23
Speaker 2: and attack theory invasion from Syria, because the history of
36:26
Speaker 2: Syria's occupation of Lebanon is also another thorn in the
36:30
Speaker 2: side of many communities in Lebanon, not only the resistance right.
36:36
Speaker 2: So this is where under the radar the authorities are
36:40
Speaker 2: literally turning a blind eye to any defensive build up
36:45
Speaker 2: by hesb on the borders, and that includes also the
36:48
Speaker 2: Syrian Arab army.
36:49
Speaker 1: So the next question, and I suppose, is how if
36:52
Speaker 1: there is an a vision by Jilani, how would that
36:55
Speaker 1: change the situation between the United States and Iran And
37:00
Speaker 1: what would Iran's response be.
37:02
Speaker 2: Oh Iran's response would be immediate. I mean, there have
37:06
Speaker 2: been statements made already. The high probability is that they
37:12
Speaker 2: would bomb Damascus. The high probability is that the Iraqi
37:18
Speaker 2: resistance factions Kataipez Bolla, the PMU would invade with the
37:24
Speaker 2: seventy thousand estimated Syrian Arabami elements that have been harboring
37:30
Speaker 2: inside Iraq waiting really for this moment. Arm So you
37:37
Speaker 2: would have the attack by Jolani, which would be met
37:40
Speaker 2: by the resistance factions here in Lebanon and the Lebanese
37:45
Speaker 2: armed forces at the end of the day, they are
37:47
Speaker 2: also going to be against any kind of invasion by Jolani.
37:53
Speaker 2: Then from Jolani's flank you'd have Iraq and the Arab
38:00
Speaker 2: Army Yemen. Yemen would answer, but I think Yemen would
38:05
Speaker 2: enter and cross the border into Saudi Arabia. As I said,
38:08
Speaker 2: they have already made that threat slightly veils, but it's
38:13
Speaker 2: very clear when you look at it in relation to
38:16
Speaker 2: the big picture that I'm talking about that that's what
38:18
Speaker 2: they're saying if anything happens. And for this reason, I'm
38:22
Speaker 2: told that Saudi Arabia is actually not supportive of Jilani's
38:27
Speaker 2: potential intervention because they know that's going to backlash onto
38:32
Speaker 2: them with Yemen coming across the border into Saudi Arabia,
38:35
Speaker 2: and we know that the Saudis are incapable of fighting
38:38
Speaker 2: on the ground pretty much. What I'm also being told
38:45
Speaker 2: is that it's mostly the UAE and Q eight that
38:48
Speaker 2: are sponsoring this intervention by Jiulani, which makes more sense
38:53
Speaker 2: because the UAE is known to be the number one
38:56
Speaker 2: partner to Israel in the region. So then the war,
39:03
Speaker 2: as I said, would become a much, much, much wider
39:07
Speaker 2: ranging war. And the reason that Iran would come into
39:11
Speaker 2: the defense of Lebanon is because again they've put it
39:13
Speaker 2: to number one on their memorandum of understanding that all
39:18
Speaker 2: conflict in the region should cease. And an important point
39:22
Speaker 2: that I want to make, actually that I forgot is
39:25
Speaker 2: Jolani's messaging. So he did an interview about three days ago,
39:30
Speaker 2: three four days ago where he stated he again, remember
39:36
Speaker 2: he's coached by mi I six, he's coached by Jonathan
39:39
Speaker 2: Powell and intermedia and all the little MI six minions
39:43
Speaker 2: that are in the presidential Palace. So when we hear
39:46
Speaker 2: his messaging, we should interpret it as the MI six
39:51
Speaker 2: talking through Joe Lanni. So what did he say? This
39:54
Speaker 2: was prior to the MoU being released. Okay, so he
40:00
Speaker 2: he sits there and he says, no, like, I don't
40:03
Speaker 2: have any problem with Lebanon, and in fact, I consider
40:06
Speaker 2: serious role to be that of defending the Lebanese state
40:11
Speaker 2: and the Lebanese institutions. So how does that translate, Mike,
40:16
Speaker 2: when we now read the wording of the MoU, which
40:20
Speaker 2: is setting up the Lebanese state and the Lebanese institutions
40:24
Speaker 2: in opposition to Hesbula, how do you read that typical
40:30
Speaker 2: six right? The phrase typical MI six framing? Because I
40:35
Speaker 2: was I didn't I could see what they were doing,
40:38
Speaker 2: but until the MoU dropped last night, then it made sense.
40:43
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, okay, that's how they're going to
40:46
Speaker 2: portray this. That has blur is A is a proxy
40:49
Speaker 2: of Iran. It's it's a it's an external actor occupying Lebanon,
40:56
Speaker 2: which is how Israel portrays it. And Jelani is going
41:00
Speaker 2: to come in in support of the Lebanese state and
41:03
Speaker 2: the Lebanese institutions.
41:05
Speaker 3: How did this spell his ballad? By the way, what
41:09
Speaker 3: do you mean?
41:10
Speaker 1: Well, but because because I suspect you might spell it itch.
41:16
Speaker 1: But anytime anything that's had British hands on it comes out,
41:20
Speaker 1: it's spelled it, I said, And just be interested to
41:24
Speaker 1: know whether there's any indication of that spelling and anything
41:27
Speaker 1: that's been released.
41:29
Speaker 2: Uh no, because it will translated. It was in Arabic,
41:33
Speaker 2: so when you translate it it goes to the E spelling.
41:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Okayty, that would have been a nice indication.
41:45
Speaker 1: I mean, let's talk a little bit more about this
41:49
Speaker 1: m I six activity in Syria at the moment. So
41:52
Speaker 1: what you're what you're saying, and a lot of people
41:54
Speaker 1: want to appreciate this, but what you're saying is that
41:57
Speaker 1: that Jilani is a tool of British intelligence.
42:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he's a tool. He's a tool of
42:06
Speaker 2: British intelligence because I think, I mean, we talked about
42:10
Speaker 2: this many times. The role of six throughout the history
42:15
Speaker 2: of Syria since its independence in nineteen forty six. Six
42:19
Speaker 2: has been heavily involved, more so than the CIA because
42:24
Speaker 2: of its history in the region with the Sykes Peico.
42:27
Speaker 2: It's to a degree competition with France over influence in
42:34
Speaker 2: this region. Hence the Sykes Peico dividing up of the region.
42:41
Speaker 2: And basically Jonathan Powell, who of course was the security
42:47
Speaker 2: advisor to Tony Blair and was then adopted by Kios Starmer.
42:53
Speaker 2: We know Kiostarmer was very much a protege as far
42:57
Speaker 2: as he could be of Tony Blair. But Jonathan Powell
43:01
Speaker 2: established I think it was in I can't remember the
43:05
Speaker 2: year actually, but he established an organization called Intermediate. He
43:10
Speaker 2: in twenty twelve contacted Hillary Clinton and said, look, you
43:14
Speaker 2: know I can act as an intermediate between you and
43:17
Speaker 2: the terrorist groups. So MI six was effectively because there
43:21
Speaker 2: were elements within Intermediate that had direct connections to Six.
43:25
Speaker 2: So this was an MI six operation with Tony Blair's
43:30
Speaker 2: fingerprints all over it. Of course, because if we also
43:34
Speaker 2: go back, Tony Blair and George Bush were trying to
43:39
Speaker 2: basically create a different relationship with Bashi Lesad and with
43:44
Speaker 2: Syria in order to avoid the regime change war. Tony
43:49
Speaker 2: Blair offered or proposed that Asad should be given a
43:53
Speaker 2: knighthood back in two thousand and two, that all fell
43:56
Speaker 2: apart around two thousand and nine when the British British
44:01
Speaker 2: authorities informed Roland Dumar, the then French Foreign Minister, that
44:07
Speaker 2: they were already fomenting and armed insurgents against the Syrian government.
44:15
Speaker 2: And so British hands have been all over this regime
44:18
Speaker 2: change war, through the White Helmets, through the multiple NGOs
44:22
Speaker 2: and organizations like the Free Syrian Police and sworn to
44:27
Speaker 2: effectively run these kind of propaganda operations, black ops against
44:34
Speaker 2: the government, which include of course the fabrication of the
44:37
Speaker 2: chemical weapon attacks and so on, including the BBC Channel
44:42
Speaker 2: four and all of these media organizations that acted effectively
44:47
Speaker 2: as a tool of British intelligence in side Syria. And
44:52
Speaker 2: so back to Jonathan Powell, he was responsible for the
44:59
Speaker 2: g dooming of Jolani. So I think it was twenty
45:03
Speaker 2: twenty one was the first time that he entered edleb
45:07
Speaker 2: and began the grooming process. We then saw the PBS
45:10
Speaker 2: Frontline interview Martin Smith interviewing the jihadist and that was
45:15
Speaker 2: the first time that you saw Jolani with his beard combed,
45:20
Speaker 2: shaved and combed and suddenly stuffed into a suit and
45:23
Speaker 2: tie and not really it still doesn't. And so when
45:33
Speaker 2: Damascus fell, you immediately saw intermediate employees, one of whom
45:39
Speaker 2: was Lucy Morgan, enter Damascus, establishing themselves in the presidential Palace,
45:45
Speaker 2: and it became very clear then that they were coaching
45:49
Speaker 2: Jolanni in what he was saying and running the show
45:52
Speaker 2: basically not only through Giolanni but also through Asad al
45:56
Speaker 2: Shai Barney. Because if you're the foreign minister also who
46:01
Speaker 2: was a member of actually one of the co founders
46:03
Speaker 2: of Jabat Tel Nosra that the first Al Qaeda in Syria,
46:09
Speaker 2: who also, if you remember, met with did an interview
46:13
Speaker 2: with Tony Blair. So there you have the connection again
46:16
Speaker 2: between Jonathan Belle, Tony Blair and this whole grooming of
46:22
Speaker 2: al Qaeda or tax theory extremists into being legitimate rulers
46:29
Speaker 2: of Syria, which of course they're not.
46:31
Speaker 1: This is taxpayer British taxpayer money being used to create
46:35
Speaker 1: all this devastation.
46:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, fundamentally yes. And you know when people say, well
46:41
Speaker 2: this is going on, you know it's not of interest
46:46
Speaker 2: because it's not in the UK. Well, the UK is
46:48
Speaker 2: actually among the primary actors that is creating this chaos
46:54
Speaker 2: in this region, and it's a chaos which is going
46:57
Speaker 2: to backfire at some point. It is already of course
47:02
Speaker 2: with the level of immigration and so on, which is
47:07
Speaker 2: to a degree in essential part of these regime change
47:10
Speaker 2: wars is that people are going to leave because they're
47:12
Speaker 2: being bombed or they're being massacred en mass and so
47:16
Speaker 2: therefore of course they're going to try and leave. So
47:20
Speaker 2: everything ties in together, as we've just talked about the
47:25
Speaker 2: Ukraine Russia war, ties into what is happening inside Syria
47:29
Speaker 2: right now.
47:30
Speaker 1: Also, this, I have to admit, is probably one of
47:33
Speaker 1: the most challenging parts of what we do, is the
47:38
Speaker 1: fact that we get we do get some pushback from people,
47:41
Speaker 1: why aren't you focusing on British stories? And my argument
47:46
Speaker 1: on that is, this is a British story, one hundred percent,
47:49
Speaker 1: a British story of Britain and British tax Paramonney. Was
47:53
Speaker 1: taken out of this equation, we would immediately see a
47:57
Speaker 1: much better situation build in the region. M So this
48:03
Speaker 1: this is our responsibility. And as you say, a lot
48:06
Speaker 1: of the migration problem that's happening at home is caused
48:10
Speaker 1: by these types of interventions and uh and as you've
48:16
Speaker 1: said many times in the past. You know what is
48:19
Speaker 1: going on there is going to be going on here.
48:23
Speaker 1: In fact, to some degree, it already is. And you
48:27
Speaker 1: know in the same way that that you've been describing
48:31
Speaker 1: people at boiling point within Syria because of the behavior
48:37
Speaker 1: of the British backed regime there. Of course people are
48:42
Speaker 1: at boiling point in Britain because of the British regime here,
48:46
Speaker 1: and so uh, these cannot be separated.
48:51
Speaker 2: And austerity is far more advanced in in Syria, I
48:55
Speaker 2: mean to a point where people literally can't feed themselves,
48:59
Speaker 2: they can't edge their children, they can't go to the hospitals.
49:02
Speaker 2: Hospitals now are being effectively privatized, whereas, of course when
49:07
Speaker 2: I was living in Syria, it was free healthcare, free education.
49:10
Speaker 2: Even during the fourteen year war and the economic sanctions
49:15
Speaker 2: and so on, they still maintained a degree of free healthcare,
49:19
Speaker 2: which was extraordinary for me. But now all of that
49:22
Speaker 2: is also being eroded. So the huge it's exactly like
49:28
Speaker 2: I post two thousand and three, where the massive majority
49:32
Speaker 2: of the population is living in poverty, while the imposed regime,
49:39
Speaker 2: which is effectively a crony capitalist entity that is being
49:45
Speaker 2: used to vulturize Syria and benefit the likes of Tom
49:54
Speaker 2: Barrick and the Saudis and you know, the people that
49:57
Speaker 2: funded the war and Syria in the first place. I mean,
50:02
Speaker 2: it's absolutely disgusting, but the fact that those austerity levels
50:07
Speaker 2: are so far advanced to the UK, but yet in
50:10
Speaker 2: the UK you are toppling into deeper and deeper austerity
50:18
Speaker 2: and I think greater levels of poverty, which is exactly
50:25
Speaker 2: that boiling point that we're talking about, where where every
50:29
Speaker 2: other pressure becomes unbearable.
50:32
Speaker 1: Basically, it's very difficult to see any I'd come other
50:36
Speaker 1: than massive civil unrest right across the world. Actually, we
50:41
Speaker 1: need to see some kind of have some empathy for their.
50:45
Speaker 2: Position, definitely, because ultimately, who are the resistance. The resistance
50:50
Speaker 2: are the ordinary people, just as they are in the West,
50:56
Speaker 2: and they're resisting exactly the type of expansionism, occupation and
51:06
Speaker 2: eventually AI surveillance. We've seen that with the pager attack
51:11
Speaker 2: in Lebanon. Yeah, right, three thousand people killed, many more mutilated,
51:19
Speaker 2: lost their eyes, lost their hands, mostly the majority women
51:23
Speaker 2: and children because they went to pick up the phone.
51:28
Speaker 2: And so what is happening here is not happening to
51:33
Speaker 2: someone else. It's potentially going to be happening to all
51:36
Speaker 2: of us. And I think for me, the main lesson
51:43
Speaker 2: out of this is to avoid and I've spoken about
51:48
Speaker 2: this before, is to avoid the orchestrated divisions, to avoid
51:54
Speaker 2: turning to hatred, because that makes it so easy then
51:59
Speaker 2: for them to ferment that civil strife. Right to a degree,
52:05
Speaker 2: they've been trying to do that here in Lubanon since
52:07
Speaker 2: October the seventh, but to a degree again has blar
52:13
Speaker 2: is well aware of that. So what they tend to
52:15
Speaker 2: do is to say to their people, don't go out
52:17
Speaker 2: on the streets, don't protest, stay home, because this is
52:21
Speaker 2: going to feed the fires of internal division and that's
52:24
Speaker 2: something we don't want. So they have actually controlled the
52:28
Speaker 2: anger of their own people, which is entirely justified to
52:32
Speaker 2: avoid that bigger plan of internal civil war, which would
52:39
Speaker 2: play exactly into the hands of the enemy. And that's
52:43
Speaker 2: what I'm saying in the worst don't turn against each other,
52:49
Speaker 2: you know, because that is just a gift to the
52:54
Speaker 2: ruling class. It's a gift to them, because when you're
52:57
Speaker 2: fighting each other, you're not fighting them.
52:59
Speaker 1: Yes, that was going to be my last question, and
53:01
Speaker 1: I guess you've answered it. Is whether whether in the
53:06
Speaker 1: region and you're the region you're living in, whether you're
53:09
Speaker 1: seeing the same misdirected resistance that maybe we're seeing in
53:15
Speaker 1: the United Kingdom, whether whether there are any examples of that,
53:18
Speaker 1: or whether people are are wise to these games, are
53:21
Speaker 1: wiser to these games and don't fall into those traps.
53:24
Speaker 2: Has belar As I said, it's definitely wise to it.
53:27
Speaker 2: The other elements within Lubanon and Laban has has been
53:31
Speaker 2: deliberately kept as a sectarian, non centralized state in a
53:37
Speaker 2: way we are seeing, of course, we're seeing, I mean
53:40
Speaker 2: to the point where the one point two million displaced
53:46
Speaker 2: from the South, for example, the Christian communities in Lubanon
53:52
Speaker 2: are refusing to rent to them in case their house
53:56
Speaker 2: gets bombed one but also just because no, you know,
54:01
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna rent to you, because you're the reason
54:06
Speaker 2: that as Well is attacking Lebanon. So we're already seeing it.
54:10
Speaker 2: Or they up the rent like three to four times
54:14
Speaker 2: what they would offer to a Christian or to someone
54:18
Speaker 2: from their own sect or community. So it's insane. We're
54:23
Speaker 2: already seeing it where people who are displaced refugees within
54:27
Speaker 2: the country are being refused shelter because of who they are,
54:34
Speaker 2: and so yes, it's visible, just as it I think
54:38
Speaker 2: will become more visible in the UK and in Europe
54:42
Speaker 2: this kind of of I mean, we've seen it in
54:44
Speaker 2: Northern Ireland, haven't we The burning down of migrant houses
54:49
Speaker 2: and homes for.
54:52
Speaker 4: The crime of one person presumably we sold for thirty
54:56
Speaker 4: thirty years, and that sectarians a there has never really gone. Yeah,
55:02
Speaker 4: and you know, sectarianism is is one of the major
55:09
Speaker 4: mechanisms of control by elite and it's it's a real
55:13
Speaker 4: shame that that, you know, people haven't gotten wise to
55:17
Speaker 4: to those techniques. So yes, well, well let's let's leave
55:23
Speaker 4: it there for now. I Vanessa, and and I'm going
55:25
Speaker 4: to say thank you very much for that. We said
55:28
Speaker 4: the last time we wouldn't leave.
55:29
Speaker 3: It as long. Perhaps we'll make that promise again so
55:32
Speaker 3: we can break it.
55:33
Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, maybe we can try in another
55:37
Speaker 2: couple of weeks and catch up, because I think things,
55:40
Speaker 2: our events are going to move pretty fast now.
55:43
Speaker 1: I think, well, obviously the next big event that we've
55:47
Speaker 1: got to keep a very close eye on is the
55:50
Speaker 1: the upcoming funeral in Iran.
55:53
Speaker 3: And yes, I hope are.
55:59
Speaker 1: Concerns the potential for an escalation there don't come to fruition,
56:04
Speaker 1: but it is obviously a very big risk, as you say.
56:07
Speaker 3: It is.
56:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I pray not, but I you know,
56:11
Speaker 2: we're not dealing with normal people. How did someone describe
56:17
Speaker 2: Trump the other day a malignant narcissist? And then the
56:21
Speaker 2: Israeli ruling class are all psychopaths as far as I
56:24
Speaker 2: can work out, So it's you know, nothing can be
56:29
Speaker 2: determined as being rational or constructive in any way, shape
56:38
Speaker 2: or form. It's a very destructive power in charge at
56:41
Speaker 2: the moment.
56:42
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, well, thank you for that. We'll leave it
56:45
Speaker 1: there for night. I hope everybody's enjoyed that. Do join
56:49
Speaker 1: us the next time we have another Serio podcast, and
56:51
Speaker 1: we'll see you then.
56:52
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us. Bye bye,