Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Wells Fargo Unleashes Bitcoin ETFs for Clients! | EP 1067

Transcript

Wells Fargo Unleashes Bitcoin ETFs for Clients! | EP 1067 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:03
  It's all going to zero against Bitcoin.
• 0:06
  It's going on forever. You're.
• 0:15
  Against Bitcoin, you're against freedom.
• 0:24
  Satoshi figured out how to manifest something of value in
• 0:27
  cyberspace forever and transfer it without the intermediary.
• 0:33
  So what does that really mean? If you can put a dollar of value
• 0:39
  in cyberspace, you can put a billion dollars of value into
• 0:42
  cyberspace. If you put a billion, you put a
• 0:44
  trillion. In the last 15 years, we put 1.3
• 0:48
  trillion. Well, there's $900 trillion of
• 0:53
  traditional wealth in the world. We have, man.
• 0:57
  We have opened a portal. Satoshi opened a portal, a
• 1:00
  technique, and we started seeing economic energy moving from the
• 1:05
  analog world and the traditional world and the the physical.
• 1:09
  World. The analog world into the
• 1:11
  digital world to a pure digital representation.
• 1:16
  And that's like putting payloads in orbit, right?
• 1:21
  Like that, I put a satellite in orbit and it circles the Earth
• 1:25
  forever. I put a satellite almost in
• 1:28
  orbit. How long can you fly?
• 1:31
  Oh, 15 hours. And then your plane crashes.
• 1:34
  So almost in orbit is 15 hours, and in orbit is 15 billion years
• 1:41
  as far as we know, right? So, so there's a pretty big
• 1:44
  difference between putting something in outer space versus
• 1:48
  putting it in space. And there's a big difference
• 1:51
  between putting something in cyberspace versus versus leaving
• 1:56
  it in real space. Good morning.
• 2:00
  Welcome to Simply Bitcoin. I am your host Optimus Fields,
• 2:04
  and we got a great show for you guys.
• 2:05
  As you can tell, we're starting strong with some bullish Michael
• 2:09
  Saylor clips, and that's the theme for today guys.
• 2:12
  We've been constantly covering it on simply Bitcoin for
• 2:16
  episodes upon episodes about the fact that now people are waking
• 2:20
  up to this idea that maybe Bitcoin is more than just
• 2:23
  Internet nerd money and we are constantly seeing signals that
• 2:28
  we might be seeing a perfect storm on the horizon.
• 2:31
  There is finally, I know the meme of Bitcoin and amongst
• 2:35
  bitcoiners for a long time has been the institutions are
• 2:38
  coming. Well, they are here.
• 2:40
  We have the Bitcoin ETF, we have the fasby rules change coming in
• 2:44
  2025. It's actually optional right
• 2:46
  now. And we're seeing that the
• 2:49
  biggest banks in the world and even central banks in the world
• 2:51
  and nation states in the world are starting to open up to this
• 2:54
  idea of allowing or rather using Bitcoin as we love to use
• 2:59
  Bitcoin. It's the best way to store your
• 3:01
  value. And we're seeing this play out
• 3:03
  in real time. Last week, I believe it was last
• 3:06
  week, we saw Morgan Stanley unleash their what was it 15,000
• 3:10
  agents to start shilling Bitcoin ETF of course, as a spot Bitcoin
• 3:16
  maxi. I'm more concerned about people
• 3:19
  holding Bitcoin, but hey, you know ETF Bitcoin as long as
• 3:22
  they're getting exposure to Bitcoin, I think it's baby steps
• 3:25
  into everyone waking up that they need to have a Bitcoin
• 3:28
  allocation and we're seeing this play out exactly in real time
• 3:33
  and it's just you just love to see it.
• 3:35
  Of course, as you can tell from the YouTube title now we have
• 3:39
  the news that apparently Wells Fargo has allowed that or rather
• 3:44
  unleashed their agents to start shilling Bitcoin to their
• 3:49
  clients. They have been a saga around the
• 3:52
  Wells Fargo Bank and their exposure to Bitcoin.
• 3:55
  At first they were only, you know, only allowing the Bitcoin
• 3:58
  ETF to people ask for it. Then there was news that came
• 4:01
  out that they had some spot Bitcoin ETF buys.
• 4:05
  And now apparently as of September, as of a couple days
• 4:09
  ago, probably the beginning of this week, they are now
• 4:12
  unleashing their agents out there to start shilling Bitcoin.
• 4:16
  And it just goes to show that this is the perfect storm.
• 4:19
  The rocket ship is taking off. It is launching.
• 4:22
  It is leaving the launchpad. And I know everyone here that
• 4:26
  they were just getting tired of this 58K gang right now, the 58K
• 4:29
  price, the chopped solidation is is starting to wear on people.
• 4:33
  And this is how you know that the Bitcoin price is about to
• 4:36
  get frothy is because when people start feeling bored, they
• 4:38
  start tuning out. That's usually when Bitcoin
• 4:41
  makes it's incredible price moves.
• 4:44
  And we've been saying for a while on the show that we we
• 4:46
  really think that the end of this year and 2025 is going to
• 4:50
  be when Bitcoin starts to enter price discovery mode.
• 4:53
  So we are seeing the inklings of this happening.
• 4:56
  And of course, as we've been covering on the show for a
• 4:58
  while, we've been bringing a lot of people to kind of spread this
• 5:02
  message to you guys in every way possible.
• 5:04
  When these institutional managers start to dip their toes
• 5:08
  into the market, they're turning around the Titanic.
• 5:11
  It's not like you and I that can just, you know, sell all our
• 5:13
  chairs and go all in on Bitcoin. They have to go through all of
• 5:17
  the obstacles and hula hoops to make sure that that they're
• 5:20
  doing their fiduciary responsibility quote on quote.
• 5:22
  And I think the biggest signal, and we're going to talk about
• 5:25
  this in the culture as well. I think the biggest signal that
• 5:27
  we're seeing right now is this trend that in the past it was
• 5:31
  basically career ending for you to shill Bitcoin, to even talk
• 5:35
  about Bitcoin in these institutional trad Phi rooms.
• 5:39
  And now it's completely reversed.
• 5:41
  And if you aren't at least doing your due diligence to look into
• 5:45
  Bitcoin, you are going to get left behind.
• 5:47
  Of course, sailors been out there doing, doing the Lord's
• 5:50
  work and framing Bitcoin for corporations.
• 5:54
  Of course we do what we can to frame Bitcoin for individuals.
• 5:58
  We have Sensen Mao and others like, you know, Max Kaiser,
• 6:02
  Stacy Herbert talking about Bitcoin for nation states.
• 6:05
  So the signal is getting now and people are waking up to this
• 6:08
  idea that you need to have some allocation of Bitcoin.
• 6:12
  You need to at least at the very least do some research and try
• 6:16
  to understand what is going on in the Bitcoin space because the
• 6:19
  world is digital and as a digital world, you need a
• 6:23
  digital money. Bitcoin is the superior money.
• 6:25
  It's the superior asset. It's been the best performing
• 6:27
  asset the last what, 10-15 years?
• 6:31
  Everyone, in my opinion, has at least heard the word Bitcoin.
• 6:35
  And now it's up to us to continue to educate them and
• 6:37
  show them that Bitcoin is a viable investment, it is a
• 6:41
  viable store of value. It is the best money in the
• 6:43
  world. And now everyone and their
• 6:46
  mother and their grandmother will soon enough get some
• 6:49
  exposure into Bitcoin. Anyway, we got a great show for
• 6:52
  you guys, but before I move on, let me bring in my Co host for
• 6:55
  the day. Of course I am here with the one
• 6:59
  and only Brandon Genteel love to have you bro.
• 7:02
  Of course, you know working for a Bitcoin trading card, fellow
• 7:04
  content creator and one of the one of the top off the bench
• 7:10
  simply Bitcoin members to fill in on the Co host.
• 7:12
  So Nico had something pop up this morning.
• 7:15
  So we got Brandon on We're gonna give you the show no matter
• 7:18
  what. You guys know the deal here.
• 7:19
  The show don't stop rain or shine, Opti or Nico, the show
• 7:24
  goes on. So Brandon, how you doing?
• 7:27
  So so good thank you Opti and thanks for having me fill in the
• 7:31
  big shoes to fill So thank you boys Bitcoin's inevitable
• 7:34
  Bitcoin isn't ill, but the fight is real.
• 7:36
  Bitcoin is a human system. Ironically, you have blade
• 7:39
  sailor in the cold open and hit one of his biggest fears.
• 7:41
  Maybe his only really fear is that, you know, Bitcoin can run
• 7:44
  forever, but if humans aren't educated and don't adopt it, it
• 7:47
  does not matter. That's why this and what we all
• 7:50
  do here is so important, educating people and and we have
• 7:54
  to get people towards that escape hatch and we have to run
• 7:57
  nodes. We have to get in self custody.
• 7:59
  Things are getting real. It's time to man up, be the 3%.
• 8:02
  Embrace that feeling of being alone and that's how you know
• 8:04
  you're going towards truth. So glad to be here.
• 8:06
  Grateful. Thanks boys. 100% I mean, we, me
• 8:10
  and you have hashed out the 3% a lot of times and I know I know
• 8:13
  all of us bit corners now we're we're we're so above and beyond
• 8:18
  the whole like ridiculous for being bit corners that now we're
• 8:20
  like, all right, we're just sitting there chilling, looking
• 8:23
  at our watch like guys come on catch up like, hey, you guys are
• 8:26
  missing out on all this. But hey, this is our cross to
• 8:29
  bear here. We got to educate as many people
• 8:31
  as possible about Bitcoin and it's starting to catch on, which
• 8:34
  you just love to see. All right, guys, we do have a
• 8:37
  special guest. He was chatting with Nico on the
• 8:40
  Orange pellet. We got Bitcoin LBO on today and
• 8:44
  I think he's going to touch on a very interesting topic.
• 8:46
  But I'm, I'm going to pass it over to you LBO on, on where
• 8:51
  this idea came from and what is a Bitcoin LBO and what are we
• 8:55
  going to be talking about on today's culture?
• 8:57
  Sure. Thanks for the opportunity.
• 8:59
  So Bitcoin LBO, the LBO stands for leverage buyouts and that's
• 9:03
  a kind of financial acronym that has been around since I, I guess
• 9:06
  the 80s you would consider because that's when people start
• 9:09
  doing this thing. If you've ever seen the movie
• 9:10
  Wall Street, it's basically a story, fictionalized account of
• 9:14
  how these guys work, right? They go in, they buy companies,
• 9:17
  load them up with a lot of debt and they use that debt to, you
• 9:20
  know, a lot of times it's just for self, self dealing, right?
• 9:22
  They, they pay themselves. But of course that involves the
• 9:25
  entire financial, traditional financial system coming
• 9:28
  together, right? You've got to have the
• 9:30
  underwriters, you've got to have the legal teams that approve
• 9:32
  things. But basically it's, you know,
• 9:34
  it, it fell out of favor because of interest rate.
• 9:36
  You know, it's a hard business because you, you go in and you
• 9:39
  figure you can optimize a company and you find out that
• 9:42
  there's, there's maybe a little bit less juice in, in, in the
• 9:45
  fruit there. And so a lot of these LB OS end
• 9:48
  up failing because they become too leveraged.
• 9:51
  The idea of Bitcoin LBO is more like, you know, again, I, we
• 9:54
  were talking in the, in the chat, Peter Dunworth calls
• 9:57
  Bitcoin the best collateral in the world.
• 9:58
  The world just hasn't realized it yet.
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  Using Bitcoin as collateral to fund LB OS and then pivoting
• 10:07
  those companies that you buy onto a Bitcoin standard and and
• 10:10
  a Bitcoin maxi standard, you should see some very outsized
• 10:15
  returns from that both as an individual investor and by
• 10:18
  bringing people into the Bitcoin network, you increase the
• 10:21
  network value, right? And you've got the the regular,
• 10:24
  these are the the typically these LB OS happen with
• 10:26
  profitable companies, not unprofitable companies.
• 10:29
  And so quarter after quarter after quarter, they turn out
• 10:32
  cash. As I use the example of grocery
• 10:33
  stores, grocery stores at a certain scale rarely ever lose
• 10:37
  money, right, because they can raise their prices along with
• 10:39
  the general price level. So think of a grocery store as
• 10:42
  like a cash register that just keeps ringing and would enable
• 10:46
  that company to put more and more Bitcoin on the balance
• 10:48
  sheet. And as the appreciation, you
• 10:51
  know, occurred that that the value of the company would go up
• 10:53
  far beyond the initial price. If you look at what Saylor did
• 10:56
  with MicroStrategy, it's up 10X almost, you know, I mean, it
• 10:59
  fluctuates, of course, it's very volatile, but it's up basically
• 11:03
  8 to 10X from where from where they announced a Bitcoin
• 11:06
  standard. So if you could replicate that
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  with other companies that are low growth.
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  They're not, it's not the individual ideas of the world or
• 11:13
  you know, those kinds of high flying growth companies that
• 11:15
  would be the target for this. It's consistent cash generation
• 11:18
  that really makes this strategy work in the traditional world
• 11:21
  and I think could be applicable in the Bitcoin world.
• 11:24
  Love it, love it. And and just to be clear here,
• 11:26
  LBO, this is a thought experiment that that you want to
• 11:30
  hash out. It is going to be a real live.
• 11:33
  Just talk through this this process and and I don't want to
• 11:37
  say speculating, but this is just a you know, maybe a thesis
• 11:40
  that you've been working on you again, I don't want to dox you
• 11:43
  too much, but you do have some inside scoop in the corporate
• 11:47
  world. So this isn't just coming from,
• 11:49
  you know, a dude in a hoodie on YouTube.
• 11:51
  This is someone that seems the back end and had these combo
• 11:54
  conversation. So I think I think there's going
• 11:56
  to be a great combo. But before we go on, because we
• 11:59
  got a jam packed show for you guys, I do have to pay the bills
• 12:02
  here. So of course, make sure you guys
• 12:05
  are going to bitcoinwell.com buy real Bitcoin.
• 12:08
  You need to support Bitcoin only companies and the reason we love
• 12:12
  Bitcoin well is because it is self custody by default.
• 12:15
  What does that mean? It means you literally need to
• 12:17
  have a Bitcoin wallet. You need to have an address
• 12:20
  before you can actually buy Bitcoin on this platform.
• 12:24
  We partner with Bitcoin companies that always push the
• 12:28
  best Bitcoin ethos and you can never get rug pulled if your
• 12:31
  exchange never holds your Bitcoin.
• 12:34
  So This is why we love Bitcoin. Well, we love the team over
• 12:36
  there. They're doing great things, but
• 12:37
  of course, get your Bitcoin lightning wallets out.
• 12:41
  Once you get into Bitcoin, well, you hit the dashboard, you go
• 12:44
  into the Bitcoin well rewards and every time you buy Bitcoin,
• 12:48
  you redeem the points and you know, you put a little coin in
• 12:52
  the wishing well and you'll get some sets.
• 12:53
  So we're I'm going to do 1 here Yesterday I got a 21,000 SAT
• 12:57
  one. We'll see what happens you guys
• 12:59
  500 SAT so first come first served.
• 13:01
  There is an opportunity to win a million SAT on this and these
• 13:06
  SAT go. Do you guys directly make sure
• 13:08
  you got a lightning wallet out. We do this every single day.
• 13:11
  On that note, let's get into the numbers.
• 13:17
  Bitcoin numbers. All right guys, you already know
• 13:22
  the deal. Do not leave your seed phrase on
• 13:25
  a piece of paper in your sock drawer.
• 13:28
  Make sure you are stamping it in titanium.
• 13:31
  These are indestructible and you do not want to tell your great,
• 13:35
  great grandchildren why you do not have generational wealth and
• 13:38
  that's because you left it on a piece of paper in your sock
• 13:41
  drawer and it got wrecked. So if you go to stamp seed, you
• 13:45
  can get a 15% off promo using the code.
• 13:48
  Simply get yourself a kit. You can Uncle Jim, your friends
• 13:52
  and family, once you got the kit, all you need to do is buy
• 13:54
  more plates again. This one's, you know very
• 13:57
  special simply Bitcoin branded one hit up James.
• 13:59
  Maybe he'll print some more if you want those but
• 14:02
  indestructible they they've tested this they they QC this so
• 14:06
  that they for sure well hold your seed phrase for as long as
• 14:10
  you are alive and this is the way to go make sure your seed
• 14:14
  phrase is backed up on titanium. OK guys, let's get into the
• 14:17
  numbers. Of course we're over here on the
• 14:19
  numbers and and again, I'm doing the show here, so I'm just going
• 14:22
  to give you the meat and potatoes here.
• 14:23
  The only numbers that most people really care.
• 14:25
  And you guys hit me in the chat if you guys want to see more
• 14:28
  numbers on mine. But I'm over here on Clark
• 14:30
  Movie's dashboard and I'm just hitting you the basic numbers
• 14:32
  because I think sometimes when we talk about all the other
• 14:35
  numbers, it's like we're speaking Chinese and they're
• 14:36
  like, I don't even know what you're talking about here, but
• 14:39
  the Bitcoin price, wow, we're under 58K.
• 14:41
  OK. The Bitcoin price currently is
• 14:43
  $57,780 per Bitcoin, which means a stats per dollar AKA how much
• 14:49
  your dollar is worth in Bitcoin, AKA how much Bitcoin you can buy
• 14:52
  for a single dollar is 1731 sets or what 173 bits for the bits
• 14:58
  Max in the jet. We are currently at a block of
• 15:01
  859,718. The market cap of Bitcoin in
• 15:06
  Fiat terms is 1.14 trillion and the Bitcoin versus gold market
• 15:10
  cap is 6.62%. We're not even at 10% of gold.
• 15:13
  So there's so much room to run in the hard money game.
• 15:17
  OK, guys, I have to preface this one a little bit because the
• 15:22
  last time we talked about something similar, our channel
• 15:26
  did get, you know, it it it got kicked off.
• 15:30
  So this clip here from Cynthia Lummis, I think it's a very
• 15:34
  powerful clip because what do we always say here on Simply
• 15:37
  Bitcoin? It's this idea of Bitcoin as a
• 15:39
  peaceful revolution that once you take your money out of the
• 15:43
  system, once you start to defund the system by putting your money
• 15:46
  where it can't be debased, the fundamentals and the incentives
• 15:50
  of the world start to align and you start to open up to a whole
• 15:54
  new paradigm. And I think Cynthia Lamas hits
• 15:56
  the nail on the head that once we get a world that is chasing
• 16:01
  Bitcoin instead of what they're chasing, now they get on the
• 16:04
  Bitcoin standard, the world will change.
• 16:07
  And it goes back to just the fundamental mean we talked about
• 16:09
  here all the time. Fix the money, fix the world.
• 16:11
  Yes, there's a lot of things wrong with the world, but once
• 16:14
  you get to a good money standard, once you fix the
• 16:17
  money, everything else will probably start to fix itself.
• 16:21
  Obviously, there's still a lot of work for us to do, but I
• 16:24
  think if you fix the money, about 90% of the problems in the
• 16:27
  world will start to fix themselves.
• 16:29
  It really starts with the money. We talk about it constantly that
• 16:32
  it's all about the money. It will always be about the
• 16:34
  money. As the saying goes, follow the
• 16:36
  money and you'll see the incentives.
• 16:38
  You'll follow the trail. Well, let's hear what Cynthia
• 16:40
  Lamas has to say on this idea. What if during this century we
• 16:49
  go back on a standard, but it's a Bitcoin standard.
• 16:53
  And so we have, yes, we still have our gold, but we now have,
• 17:00
  in addition to that, another hard asset, a digital gold
• 17:04
  Bitcoin that is growing in value and can underpin the US dollar.
• 17:10
  And wouldn't it be fun if the next arms race was not for
• 17:14
  weapons, it was for Bitcoin? Wouldn't it be fun if the US is
• 17:19
  buying Bitcoin and it scares China and Russia, so they start
• 17:24
  buying Bitcoin and we have an arms race over Bitcoin instead
• 17:28
  of over weapons that we're, we're as globally, we're
• 17:32
  challenging each other to have a secure store of value.
• 17:40
  Amazing. What do we say here or actually
• 17:42
  rather, what do I say on the show constantly?
• 17:45
  We are playing a game of Hungry Hippo.
• 17:47
  The only game that matters is how many sets you have under
• 17:49
  your control. And we've seen this play out the
• 17:51
  last 15 year. It Bitcoin has been pretty much
• 17:54
  driven by individuals. So on an individual level, I
• 17:57
  think we've all kind of understood this game that we are
• 18:00
  playing Pac-Man, we're playing hungry Hippo With Bitcoin,
• 18:02
  you're trying to stack as many sets as possible.
• 18:04
  You're trying to hold as many sets as possible long term.
• 18:07
  But as we're going to be covering today, the floodgates
• 18:10
  are open and institutions, central banks, banks, nation
• 18:14
  states, everyone is starting to wake up to this idea that oh
• 18:17
  wait, the only game that matters right now is saving in Bitcoin.
• 18:21
  It's acquiring as much Bitcoin as possible.
• 18:23
  We've all seen Michael Saylor put on a a master class on
• 18:27
  acquiring Bitcoin. And it is very interesting that
• 18:30
  the the powers that be, the institutions that the real big
• 18:34
  bucks in the world are so slow to adopt Micro Sailor or Michael
• 18:39
  Michael Saylor strategy here, because it's literally the only
• 18:43
  viable game that that is out there.
• 18:45
  Once you start to see the the landscape start to wake up to
• 18:49
  this idea that wait, all I have to do is buy some Bitcoin and
• 18:52
  and I can live a better life. Sounds very good to me.
• 18:56
  And it really goes to what I say here on the show every single
• 18:59
  day is this is a peaceful revolution.
• 19:02
  Yes, there's a lot of things that Fiat money is funded, but
• 19:05
  once you start to get back to stacking good money, stacking
• 19:08
  hard money, that's when the game really changes and your
• 19:11
  incentives and your priorities start to change.
• 19:13
  We've all felt this on an individual level.
• 19:15
  And to be clear here, I think Cynthia Lum has hit something
• 19:18
  very important that probably the biggest blunder of the 20th
• 19:22
  century is leaving the gold standard and basically going
• 19:25
  into the Fiat standard. And I think so many people
• 19:27
  forget that the Fiat money, the paper money that we use right
• 19:31
  now, government debt as money that is the status quo right now
• 19:34
  is an experiment. It it hasn't happened like this
• 19:37
  for a long time in history. And yet this is where here we
• 19:40
  are and everyone is just going along and and thinking that this
• 19:43
  is the status quo, that paper money is the only viable source
• 19:47
  of money and further that the government should be in control
• 19:50
  of money. But here we are as Bitcoiners.
• 19:52
  We're like there's a whole new game in town.
• 19:54
  It's stacking digital money. It is stacking Bitcoin.
• 19:58
  This is how you get ahead in life.
• 20:00
  And especially when you look at traditional financial world or
• 20:03
  traditional financial ideology, you got to play all these
• 20:07
  different. Financial trickery to stay
• 20:09
  ahead. You got to become an investor to
• 20:11
  stay ahead and here we are as Bitcoin.
• 20:12
  You know, guy in a hoodie is just like, bro, all you got to
• 20:15
  do is save in Bitcoin, take it into custody and make sure that
• 20:19
  you're upping your skills. Make sure your cash flows coming
• 20:22
  in so that you can continue to buy Bitcoin.
• 20:23
  As we say, stay humble stacks at stay solvent.
• 20:26
  This is the way. We'll just wait until the nation
• 20:29
  states start to wake up with up to this, this game that we're
• 20:31
  playing. And I know as a bitcoiner,
• 20:33
  you're like, I don't care about that.
• 20:34
  I don't care about the banks buying Bitcoin.
• 20:36
  I don't care about the US government buying Bitcoin.
• 20:38
  I want them to buy it last. I get it, bro.
• 20:41
  But Bitcoin is for anyone. And that signal is waking up and
• 20:44
  people are starting to see the writing on the wall that wait, I
• 20:48
  need to buy some Bitcoin. And we're going to cover more of
• 20:50
  this on the news. But before I go on and and just
• 20:52
  keep ranting, I'm going I'm going to pass it over to Bitcoin
• 20:55
  LBL. What's your thoughts on Cynthia
• 20:56
  Aslamis? Take right there.
• 20:58
  Yeah, I, I mean, I would love for the next arms race to be
• 21:00
  about Bitcoin better than military technology.
• 21:03
  I mean, of course security is always a concern for nation
• 21:06
  states, but I mean, the military technology that we have today is
• 21:09
  so deadly that I, I, I don't, I don't see any, any, any
• 21:13
  rationale for it. I mean, so I, I think she's
• 21:16
  right. And I think, you know, the US
• 21:17
  would benefit from having maybe not 20% of the of the world's
• 21:22
  Bitcoin, but, you know, some percentage.
• 21:24
  And I think the biggest fight that you have is that then it
• 21:27
  can't be micromanaged by the central bankers.
• 21:29
  And they love that power, you know, to turn off and on the
• 21:32
  money spigot and to direct it toward their friends.
• 21:34
  I mean, I told you in the chat, 2008 had a big impact on me.
• 21:38
  The way they just changed the rules in the middle of the game.
• 21:40
  It's it's, it's all funny money in my book at this point.
• 21:43
  Yeah, 100%. Now, I, I think the, the most
• 21:47
  surprising part about this is that people don't realize that
• 21:50
  it's funny money. And you know, we, we try to hit
• 21:53
  every angle and we'll constantly keep trying to hit that angle
• 21:56
  and explain to people inflation, explain to people the Federal
• 21:59
  Reserve, fractional reserve banking and all that stuff.
• 22:02
  But fundamentally people are so ingrained in the dollar that
• 22:05
  it's hard for them to think of an alternative.
• 22:07
  And this is what Bitcoin is. Bitcoin is the best alternative
• 22:10
  to the dollar. And now that we're in a digital
• 22:12
  world, it's, it's never, we're never putting the cap back in
• 22:14
  the bag. Like where Bitcoins here, it's
• 22:17
  been here for 15 years. It's the best performing asset
• 22:19
  period. Everyone that's saved in Bitcoin
• 22:21
  long term sees that their life starts to get cheaper, sees that
• 22:25
  their savings starts to grow, which is the complete opposite.
• 22:28
  And actually, before I pass it on to Brandon LBO, we kind of
• 22:31
  talked about this before the show that when you save in, in
• 22:34
  dollars, even if you're making a lot of money, it's still
• 22:36
  incredibly hard to, to get ahead.
• 22:38
  And I always tell the, the, the audience that before Bitcoin, I
• 22:42
  could barely save like $300.00 in Fiat.
• 22:44
  It would just literally burn a hole in my pocket and I would
• 22:47
  spend it. And that's what we're
• 22:48
  incentivized to do with dollars. And now the game's changing
• 22:51
  where just by saving you can get ahead in life.
• 22:54
  And I know this the, you know, there's a meme out there that
• 22:57
  you're never going to get rich saving.
• 22:59
  And yes, for the most part, they're right.
• 23:01
  But if you build your skills up, you get cash flows and you save
• 23:05
  in Bitcoin, the game becomes that much easier.
• 23:08
  And it it's just absolutely incredible how simple this
• 23:11
  Bitcoin play actually is and how it how anyone in the world can
• 23:16
  embrace it. Yeah, no, great point.
• 23:19
  And what I would say is I ran some numbers basically I started
• 23:23
  investing in Bitcoin kind of near the 2021 top.
• 23:25
  So I was by no means early to the game, but because I dollar
• 23:29
  cost average over the subsequent you know three years, I'm
• 23:32
  already ahead, you know and more than I would have been if I have
• 23:35
  been in in the traditional financial market.
• 23:37
  So I think, but anyone with any money that they can keep from
• 23:42
  spending for three years, I think it's it's a virtual no
• 23:45
  brainer to put in Bitcoin. It's like very hard to lose
• 23:48
  money over a three-year period in Bitcoin.
• 23:50
  And I know that that's not the case for everyone that they have
• 23:52
  that. But if you can, you know, scrimp
• 23:55
  and save so that you don't have to touch that dollar for three
• 23:58
  years, you know, you'll have $1.50 a buck 75, two bucks in in
• 24:02
  three years. And and that's a better
• 24:03
  financial return than almost any market's going to give you
• 24:05
  unless you have some inside information.
• 24:09
  Yeah, yeah, 100%. All right, Brandon, what's your
• 24:11
  thoughts on this? Yeah, I know it's, there's so
• 24:14
  many things I was just writing down.
• 24:15
  I mean, it's, it's tiresome to be in a Fiat world, right?
• 24:18
  I mean, I was just with some of my good friends this past
• 24:20
  weekend and talking about stuff and they're buying commercial
• 24:23
  buildings and they're doing this and they're, they're all over
• 24:25
  the place And that was the world.
• 24:26
  You know, I was telling all the earlier, you know, off off
• 24:28
  screen that that was my world too, you know, for years, just
• 24:31
  the, the Burr method, right, in real estate that people might be
• 24:34
  familiar with and it's tiresome. You know, I have 4 kids, you're
• 24:37
  running around and I, I, you can't do those things because
• 24:39
  you're trading Everything in life is a trade off and you're
• 24:40
  trading off, you know, hey, if you're going to have easy money,
• 24:43
  then we're going to have a lot of problems in life.
• 24:45
  Or if you have hard money, it's going to make things a little
• 24:47
  bit more simple. You, you can save.
• 24:48
  I mean, I always think of the average McDonald's worker, you
• 24:51
  know, like if you have a money that is just and fair, you can
• 24:55
  have a McDonald's worker make two Bitcoin a year.
• 24:59
  But if you save one Bitcoin a year versus a Doctor Who makes
• 25:02
  100 Bitcoin a year, but he saves 0 Bitcoin a year, who's going to
• 25:06
  be further ahead in 10 years? And that, that right there,
• 25:09
  there's, there's all these little analogies that you can
• 25:10
  use to, to really start seeing the power of, of sound money and
• 25:15
  where we are going. So I think that again, going
• 25:17
  back to some of the, the, the money being around, money's been
• 25:21
  around before governments. It's been around, it will be
• 25:23
  around after governments and, and that's what Bitcoin's going
• 25:26
  to do. It's going to take, really take
• 25:28
  out a lot of the riffraff we're seeing.
• 25:30
  I'm, I'm trying not to get your, your, your channel here again, I
• 25:35
  will be careful, but credit, you know, is, is a tenant of Karl
• 25:39
  Marx, right? I'm going to be, again, being
• 25:40
  careful of my words, Plank 5 of the Manifesto from 1848 and go
• 25:45
  look that up from Karl Marx talks about credit creation
• 25:48
  through the central banks. That's what the world we're
• 25:50
  living in. There's no way around it, end of
• 25:53
  story. And it's, it's that's the what
• 25:55
  we're trying to really get rid of and put the power of the
• 25:58
  money back into the hands of the people, which our founding
• 26:00
  fathers talked about ad nauseam. If you go back and read their
• 26:04
  writings. And again, it makes me think the
• 26:06
  lastly of, of Jason Lowry being is, you know, Jason Lowry,
• 26:08
  right? Like we have this debate now for
• 26:11
  what two years of people going back and forth to Jason Lowry
• 26:13
  and by by the day, he seems to be the one that people are
• 26:17
  talking indirectly more and more about and and supporting that
• 26:20
  thesis, whether whether people like it or not that that we're
• 26:24
  going that direction now we have politicians talking about it and
• 26:27
  anytime this is where the politics stuff comes into play,
• 26:30
  where anytime a politician has Bitcoin on their tongue, that's
• 26:33
  good for all of us because like it or not, again, people look to
• 26:37
  politicians. Whether that should be done or
• 26:39
  not doesn't matter. That's the fact.
• 26:41
  In reality, people look at politicians as leaders and when
• 26:45
  they have Bitcoin on their tongue, that is great for all of
• 26:48
  us. That just means Bitcoin is
• 26:49
  spreading out to normies who otherwise would not have known
• 26:52
  it. And you, you can't believe
• 26:54
  everything you see. So central banks saying they're
• 26:56
  hoarding gold, they're hoarding gold over the last 10 years, Who
• 26:59
  knows who, who can, who here can confirm that they're hoarding
• 27:02
  gold? What if they've been hoarding
• 27:03
  Bitcoin? What if China and Russia have
• 27:04
  been hoarding Bitcoin? We have no idea.
• 27:06
  And that's the we can't even trust our inflation numbers.
• 27:09
  So how are we going to trust them about any aspect of the
• 27:11
  money or what they're saving or what they're mining or what
• 27:13
  they're doing? So I think that that's where
• 27:15
  once we start breaking down this into its component compart,
• 27:18
  component parts, we start seeing, you know, the real game
• 27:21
  at play here. Yeah, the real game is stacking
• 27:24
  Bitcoin. There is a global game theory
• 27:28
  game being played out right now and it's who can acquire the
• 27:30
  much as much Bitcoin as possible.
• 27:33
  It feels so good being a Bitcoiner.
• 27:35
  It feels so good being a Bitcoiner.
• 27:36
  And and somewhat early to this and and it really kind of goes
• 27:39
  to the whole idea, like I'm late to Bitcoin.
• 27:41
  I know everyone will look at Bitcoin at like 70 K and be
• 27:43
  like, I'm so late to Bitcoin. But I'm reminded of this clip of
• 27:47
  sailors basically you saying like, look, if you bought a
• 27:50
  block of Manhattan in 1700s, you're probably doing well.
• 27:54
  If you bought that same block in 1800s, yeah, the price has gone
• 27:58
  up in time. If you bought that block in
• 28:00
  1900s, yeah, you know, the price is probably increasing.
• 28:04
  But today, if you look back and you bought that block in
• 28:06
  Manhattan and in the 1900s, you're like, I'm doing, I'm very
• 28:10
  happy about it. Even if you bought in the 70s or
• 28:11
  the 80s till today, it's like you're never late to good high
• 28:15
  quality assets. You're never late to the best
• 28:17
  money in the world. And this is where we are right
• 28:19
  now. And people are waking up to this
• 28:21
  and you just love to see it. All right, guys, let's get you
• 28:23
  today's news story so you guys can feel a little more bullish.
• 28:29
  The Daily News. I want to give a shout out to
• 28:33
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• 28:38
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• 28:42
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• 29:27
  more. Do not think about taking your
• 29:31
  Bitcoin off in exchange. Make sure you are taking your
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  Bitcoin off in exchange. It's one of the most important
• 29:37
  aspects about Bitcoin and one of the beautiful aspects about
• 29:40
  Bitcoin is that you can self custody without a middle man
• 29:43
  Guys, if you need to rehash this, go back to the white
• 29:46
  paper. It's literally in the first
• 29:48
  paragraph. It's in the abstract.
• 29:49
  This is what this is all about. Make sure you're taking your
• 29:52
  Bitcoin off in exchange. OK, guys, I do want to set the
• 29:55
  scene seen with this incredible tweet by Sam Callahan.
• 29:59
  And I think this is what we're seeing play out.
• 30:02
  And me and LBL were talking about this before the show and
• 30:04
  this is really going to continue the conversation in the culture.
• 30:08
  But Sam's got a great tweet right here that he dropped this
• 30:10
  morning and he goes, if you're AC suite executive and this
• 30:13
  slide comes across your desk one morning, how do you not think
• 30:16
  about it for the rest of the day, week, month and year?
• 30:18
  And for the audio listeners, what is this screenshot?
• 30:21
  It's micro strategy before and after adopting a Bitcoin
• 30:24
  strategy. So on August 2020, they had no
• 30:27
  Bitcoin. Their market cap is at 1.2
• 30:29
  billion. The enterprise value was a point
• 30:31
  7 billion and their share price was $124 per share.
• 30:35
  And then in July 2020 fourth, they have 226,331 Bitcoin under
• 30:41
  their control. Their market cap is 38 billion,
• 30:43
  their enterprise value is $40 billion, and their share price
• 30:47
  is $1800 per share. You know, and you can see the
• 30:51
  market cap ARR is 140%, the enterprise value is 182 percent
• 30:56
  and their share price goes up 97%.
• 30:59
  So this is the trend that I think we're seeing play out.
• 31:03
  Obviously it's happening slow. They they have to do their due
• 31:06
  diligence before they can fully embrace Bitcoin.
• 31:09
  They got to understand what they're getting into, but we're
• 31:11
  starting to see that the micro Michael Saylor micro strategy
• 31:15
  strategy is catching on. And people are starting to see
• 31:18
  that, hey, if I add Bitcoin to my balance sheet, maybe this is
• 31:22
  going to improve my company. Maybe this is going to improve
• 31:26
  what the shareholders, you know, get in value.
• 31:29
  All right, so going to this news story, of course, it's Wells
• 31:33
  Fargo seemingly now starting to embrace and show Bitcoin to
• 31:38
  their clients. So I'm going to kind of go
• 31:40
  through the saga here. We have January 12th, which is 2
• 31:43
  days after the ETF. You'll see that Wells Fargo's
• 31:47
  wasn't necessarily against the Bitcoin ETF, but they were only
• 31:52
  going to allow customers to invest in an ETF if they asked
• 31:56
  the their asset manager. And which is seemingly probably
• 32:00
  a good take. When this ETF just got launched,
• 32:03
  of course, the the Black Rock embracing Bitcoin mean was still
• 32:07
  kind of there. Like once Larry Fink gives
• 32:09
  Bitcoin the legitimacy, then of course it's a signal to the rest
• 32:13
  of the market that hey, maybe I have to look into this Bitcoin
• 32:16
  thing. And then later we heard in
• 32:18
  March, or rather May 10th that where's Wells Fargo, America's
• 32:21
  third largest bank owned spot Bitcoin ETF, though the numbers
• 32:25
  weren't that much. I, I believe the numbers, if I'm
• 32:28
  correct, it was only about $141,000 in the Grayscale ETF.
• 32:32
  But the fact that they're dipping their toes into this
• 32:35
  just goes to show that Bitcoin and just the Bitcoin ETF product
• 32:39
  in itself has some sense of legitimacy by these big banks.
• 32:42
  And again, I'm hearing the bitcoiners out there like, we
• 32:44
  don't care about the banks. It doesn't matter to us.
• 32:46
  Yes, I get it. But this just goes to show that
• 32:49
  that Bitcoin is maturing. And we've been saying this for a
• 32:51
  long time. I think Bitcoiners have been
• 32:53
  saying this for forever basically that this moment was
• 32:56
  going to come. And now we heard that Wells
• 32:59
  Fargo will begin pitching Bitcoin ETF to its clients in
• 33:02
  September. Today is September 3rd.
• 33:04
  And of course, they manage $1.7 trillion in assets.
• 33:07
  So just diving in here a little bit, of course they're going to
• 33:10
  pitch the ETF in September. And you see Wells Fargo set to
• 33:13
  begin pitching the ETF. The financial institution
• 33:16
  manages 1.7 trillion in assets and they're following in the
• 33:20
  Morgan Stanley footsteps, which we covered last week that Morgan
• 33:23
  Stanley has unleashed their 15,000 agents to start shilling
• 33:28
  Bitcoin to their clients. Of course, in that news, they
• 33:31
  were only going to ship or show Bitcoin to their high net worth
• 33:34
  individuals. Well, we also kind of have very
• 33:37
  similar trend here from Wells Fargo.
• 33:38
  So Wells Fargo's advisors have been briefed on the specifics,
• 33:42
  including limits on retail portfolio percentages and
• 33:45
  account asset minimums of over $1 million.
• 33:48
  This move positioned Wells Fargo is one of the major U.S. banks
• 33:52
  embracing Bitcoin and crypto investment products alongside
• 33:56
  Morgan Stanley. So it just goes to show that the
• 33:59
  signal is catching on that the biggest banks in the world are
• 34:01
  starting to wake up to this idea that hey, maybe we need to let
• 34:04
  our clients invest in Bitcoin. As we were saying in the
• 34:08
  beginning, it used to be basically career ending to
• 34:12
  embrace Bitcoin and now it's career ending if they don't
• 34:15
  embrace Bitcoin. But I really like this tweet
• 34:17
  here from British hard only goes Wells Fargo with it's more than
• 34:20
  13,200. Financial advisors will begin
• 34:23
  actively pitching Bitcoin ETF to their clients in September.
• 34:27
  They already could if the client asked about it.
• 34:29
  Now they can actively make outbound efforts to sell the
• 34:32
  products accelerating faster towards my prediction of 50,000
• 34:36
  US advisor selling Bitcoin to clients by the end of the year.
• 34:40
  Now what is the difference here? We talked about this when
• 34:44
  BlackRock started to show the ETF when they embrace the
• 34:47
  Bitcoin ETF. Well, now we have and and you
• 34:51
  guys could argue this, but now we have the smart money in the
• 34:54
  room actively shilling Bitcoin. Just think about the due
• 34:57
  diligence they have to do to fully understand what Bitcoin is
• 35:00
  and then go out to shell a Bitcoin ETF product to their
• 35:03
  clients. And now that they're going to
• 35:06
  basically be pushing Bitcoin, which is what we say here all
• 35:08
  the time, Bitcoin is the best performing asset period.
• 35:11
  And you probably want to get some just in case it's catching
• 35:13
  on. Now we have and again, I, I can
• 35:16
  hear the bitcoiners yelling at me now we have the stamp of
• 35:19
  approval from the smart money out here that hey, you might
• 35:22
  want to save in some Bitcoin. So no longer is it just a dude
• 35:26
  on a hoodie in YouTube telling YouTube save in Bitcoin.
• 35:29
  It's the dudes in the suits out there shilling Bitcoin.
• 35:32
  And I think we're going to see this trend catch on throughout
• 35:35
  the end of the this year and of course really kicking in 2025.
• 35:39
  Once Bitcoin enters price discovery mode, or what I'm
• 35:41
  thinking it enters price discovery mode.
• 35:44
  And this is going to really kick in that positive feedback loop
• 35:47
  of, hey, if you want to get outbound returns, if you want to
• 35:51
  outpace the market, you probably need some Bitcoin.
• 35:54
  And of course, there is some concerns, or rather there might
• 35:58
  be some concerns about just buying the Bitcoin ETF, though.
• 36:01
  Maybe you want to have some money in the traditional
• 36:03
  financial system. Maybe you want some outside of
• 36:05
  the system and take Bitcoin into custody, but this does just go
• 36:09
  to show that the signal of Bitcoin is maturing.
• 36:12
  We're no longer just Internet nerd money.
• 36:14
  Now it's becoming a viable financial instrument for the
• 36:18
  biggest institutional managers in the world.
• 36:20
  And let's not forget Bitcoin's market cap right now is what,
• 36:23
  1.14 trillion? Of course your fault was not
• 36:26
  going to go all in on Bitcoin, but they have $1.73 trillion
• 36:31
  assets under management. Like the game is fundamentally
• 36:34
  changing. And yes, I know I can hear
• 36:36
  you're the bitcoiners out there speaking and and, you know,
• 36:39
  arguing about the quality of Bitcoin and, you know, inclusive
• 36:42
  and it's about the little man. I totally agree.
• 36:45
  This is why we do what our show, how we do it.
• 36:48
  We want everyone to hold Bitcoin, but we got to remember
• 36:51
  that there needs to be an army of us Bitcoin plebs out here to
• 36:54
  move the market. But we get one convinced buyer
• 36:58
  of Bitcoin, someone just going all in and this market is going
• 37:02
  to go nuclear, especially when you consider that there's not
• 37:05
  that much Bitcoin on exchanges. Things are going to heat up in
• 37:08
  2025. What we see this at the end of
• 37:11
  this year, who knows? I have friends calling for
• 37:13
  September. You know, we're all kind of
• 37:15
  meeming. Maybe it's October.
• 37:17
  Who knows what's going to happen by the end of the year.
• 37:19
  But I think we are all convinced that there's a perfect storm on
• 37:22
  the horizon. And once the price of Bitcoin
• 37:24
  starts moving, it's it's not going to come down.
• 37:27
  So hey, shout out the 58K gang for giving us these cheap sats
• 37:31
  right now, but soon enough, 58 K gangs price manipulation will be
• 37:36
  over and the price is going to run.
• 37:39
  So, as I say all the time keep stacking.
• 37:42
  Make sure your dollar cost averaging or if you have you
• 37:45
  know, a little more a little more discipline to make sure you
• 37:48
  have some powder on the side for it so you can buy up these dips.
• 37:51
  Whatever works for you. Just know that the the tsunami
• 37:56
  is coming and you want to be prepared.
• 37:58
  You don't want to be selling your Bitcoin to BlackRock or to
• 38:00
  the wells fargos of the world, because this is this is how we
• 38:04
  and I don't like using the word, but democratize this whole race.
• 38:08
  Right now. Bitcoin is the real Occupy Wall
• 38:10
  Street and you as an individual, you want to hold on to them sets
• 38:14
  for the long term. You want to make sure you don't
• 38:16
  rug pull yourself take your Bitcoin into custody.
• 38:18
  This is how you protect yourself because as anyone that is semi
• 38:22
  awake can tell you, the politicians, the bankers, they
• 38:25
  don't care about you. They're all they're just looking
• 38:28
  for the next big buck. They're the next big game.
• 38:30
  So you need to take action and save in Bitcoin, empower
• 38:34
  yourself as an individual and save in some Bitcoin.
• 38:37
  So before I go to Brandon, let's go to LBO.
• 38:40
  Considering that, you do have a little more inside scoop on the
• 38:44
  traditional financial world. Yeah.
• 38:46
  So I I think you're right. It's, it's the trend is in is in
• 38:51
  bitcoins direction in terms of people who have credibility
• 38:54
  starting from Larry Fink on down to, you know, Morgan Stanley or
• 38:57
  Wells Fargo advisor are talking about Bitcoin.
• 39:00
  I think what, what I've experienced, I've worked at big
• 39:02
  companies for the last 20 years in what's called the corporate
• 39:05
  strategy world, right. So when executives kind of don't
• 39:08
  know what to do next with their companies, like should I pivot
• 39:10
  to market A or market B or should I go after a new customer
• 39:13
  segment? I'm part of it's teams that
• 39:15
  analyze all the different options and help them understand
• 39:17
  the trade-offs. And a lot of times what ends up
• 39:20
  happening is companies get into a, a position where they don't
• 39:24
  have a real next market to go to.
• 39:27
  And so they kind of get stuck and they, they're basically the
• 39:30
  company grows with the GDP, right.
• 39:31
  So if the GDP is up this much, their, their revenues are up
• 39:34
  this much. And so, you know, a couple, a
• 39:37
  couple years ago, I, I brought up the topic of, of Bitcoin on
• 39:40
  the balance sheet in regards to, you know, what Michael Saylor
• 39:43
  was doing. And it was kind of, it was
• 39:45
  rejected primarily for a couple of reasons.
• 39:48
  One was, well, Michael Saylor owned half that company so he
• 39:50
  could do what he want, which isn't true, but you know, they
• 39:52
  use it as an excuse or well, you know, we don't believe in
• 39:56
  Bitcoin, so we're not going to do it.
• 39:58
  And I'm like, okay, but you know, just educate yourself a
• 40:01
  little bit. But I, I think that, so there's
• 40:03
  a couple of those like pre made excuses that would cover up for
• 40:08
  the fact that they're just scared of losing their jobs,
• 40:10
  right? Which is fine.
• 40:11
  I mean, if you're sitting in that CEO seat, you're making a
• 40:13
  lot of money, you don't want to rock the boat so much.
• 40:15
  But for the shareholders, it's not fine because in the sense
• 40:18
  you showed those numbers that MicroStrategy has returned.
• 40:21
  Any company in the world that returned that their shareholders
• 40:24
  would be happy, whether it was a Bitcoin standard or you know,
• 40:27
  whatever the the asset was. So I think that that's that's
• 40:30
  the key is you look at that ARR even in so I was looking up the
• 40:34
  Arrs for leveraged buyouts and that's considered one of the
• 40:37
  highest return strategies and those are probably like 30% a
• 40:40
  year, right? So you compare that 100 and 4000
• 40:43
  and 8100% this guy, this one strategy and it doesn't even
• 40:47
  really require, well, tinkering with the company.
• 40:49
  You know, he didn't really redirect.
• 40:51
  Yeah, he turned it into a Bitcoin development company.
• 40:53
  But he's also servicing his existing customers, generating
• 40:56
  the cash flows from that end and just taking those cash flows
• 40:58
  instead of buying back his shares, which even Warren
• 41:01
  Buffett says share buybacks are are a scam on.
• 41:04
  You know, basically they show that they show the company is
• 41:06
  doing better than they than they really are just doing that one
• 41:09
  thing without changing anything else, really move the needle for
• 41:12
  that company in a way that hardly any companies can say
• 41:15
  they've achieved. Yeah, totally.
• 41:17
  It. It's really incredible the
• 41:19
  returns that MicroStrategy has has achieved just by simply
• 41:23
  putting Bitcoin on its balance sheet and then continuing to buy
• 41:27
  as much Bitcoin as possible. It's such a simple strategy, but
• 41:31
  it. And it's like it totally
• 41:34
  leverages the Fiat system because companies, companies
• 41:37
  want to loan money to executives and, and company owners.
• 41:42
  They want to do that because that's how they get returns,
• 41:44
  right? And so it's a total judo move on
• 41:47
  the entire Fiat system that I think once people see it, they
• 41:51
  can't Unsee it. And, and I think MicroStrategy
• 41:54
  is doing great work trying to educate people.
• 41:56
  The idea that I'm trying to bring to the table is let's
• 41:59
  force the issue by pooling an investment pool made of
• 42:02
  bitcoiners going out and buying a company and just forcing the
• 42:05
  issue so that they have no excuses of career risk.
• 42:09
  It's no career risk. If, if, if your company's taking
• 42:11
  over at a fair price that your shareholders consider fair,
• 42:15
  which will be above the market price for sure, then they have
• 42:19
  almost a fiduciary duty to sell the company to you.
• 42:21
  And then you can do anything you want in terms of policy around
• 42:24
  investment allocations and things like that.
• 42:26
  So I, I, Michael Saylor has a great video.
• 42:28
  It's about 12 minutes long where he talks about the different
• 42:30
  options he thought through as a CEO.
• 42:31
  He's like, I could buy a buy a company, I could just sell the
• 42:34
  company to somebody else. I could go into a new market.
• 42:36
  He said all of them paled in comparison to what he saw as the
• 42:38
  upside of Bitcoin. So 100% agree with that
• 42:41
  assessment. And I think that's exactly the
• 42:43
  kind of assessment that the executives at the companies I
• 42:45
  work at ask me to do. And when I come back to them and
• 42:48
  say it's Bitcoin, they're like, so it's kind of an odd, odd
• 42:51
  situation where where that it's still a bit too much of A
• 42:54
  career. So that's what I'm saying, force
• 42:55
  the issue. Don't give them the out.
• 42:57
  They don't keep their jobs. That's what they really care
• 42:59
  about. Love it.
• 43:01
  OK, all right, well, we're going to we're going to break that
• 43:03
  down more in the culture. So we'll we'll put a pin on that
• 43:06
  one. But Brandon, what's your
• 43:08
  thoughts on this Wells Fargo unleashing their agents?
• 43:11
  Are we are we falling into just the Bitcoin number go up trap
• 43:14
  or, or what's your thoughts when you hear this news?
• 43:18
  Boy, someone's on the chat too. And then the, the fake accounts
• 43:21
  from Wells Fargo. I mean, you can't make this
• 43:23
  stuff up. We do live in a clown world.
• 43:25
  I, I, it's inevitable again, like we kind of open the show
• 43:28
  with it gets inevitable there doesn't mean there's not hard
• 43:30
  work that has to be done. It's a human system.
• 43:32
  We need to put the work and we need to educate.
• 43:33
  But Sailor is the new Buffett in a way.
• 43:36
  So we just talked about Warren Buffett, that's what Warren
• 43:38
  Buffett did and that's kind of what LBO just alluded to in a
• 43:41
  sense. And that he got his, you know,
• 43:43
  insurance companies are are notorious for like you have the
• 43:46
  float, you've got all this cash, people give you their premiums
• 43:48
  and then you've got all this cash.
• 43:49
  You get to go invest like, hey, I'm a better investor, so I'm
• 43:52
  going to go invest this for you because you don't know what to
• 43:54
  do. That's in essence what a bank
• 43:55
  is. I mean, banks are, you know,
• 43:57
  you're a private money lender to a bank.
• 43:59
  Banks, you know, as most people know here, that's not your money
• 44:02
  anymore. You've now contractually agreed
• 44:05
  to being a private money lender. The bank takes it and goes
• 44:07
  invest it because person has no flipping idea how to invest
• 44:11
  their their money to get a return.
• 44:13
  And that's where the LB OS come in the Burr method in real
• 44:15
  estate. Now you can just save.
• 44:17
  You know what, you know, those are sophisticated strategies and
• 44:20
  you have to have experience and you have to have contacts and
• 44:22
  and and you have to put a lot of work in to do these things, but
• 44:25
  that's what we're forced to do. But in with Bitcoin, now you're
• 44:28
  you have the ability to just save in Bitcoin, like we talked
• 44:30
  about, the McDonald's worker can now save and out compete the
• 44:33
  doctor. You know that it's never really
• 44:36
  we've never had that ability to do that.
• 44:38
  Some would argue gold, but we not at this level, right?
• 44:40
  Bitcoin gives us that opportunity that we humans have
• 44:42
  never seen it for. It's literally the invention of
• 44:44
  the fire of the wheel. So Wells Fargo again, these
• 44:47
  these people are going to keep coming in.
• 44:49
  They're going to keep doing it. And it's just, it literally is
• 44:52
  inevitable because more people every single day wake up just
• 44:55
  like all of us. I mean, we think of our own
• 44:57
  stories of how we woke up. Again, I was in the real estate
• 45:00
  world and I, I had people, I was doing Facebook lives and doing
• 45:03
  Instagram lives, trying to build my Fiat real estate business.
• 45:06
  And I would be every day going alive for years starting like
• 45:10
  2014 or 2015, just doing this as these features were coming out,
• 45:13
  social media and I would have people over time in 2014,
• 45:16
  fifteen, like, well, what are you, you're talking about gold
• 45:18
  and silver? Like what do you think about
• 45:19
  Bitcoin? And so it took me probably 2
• 45:21
  years really until the run up in 2017 to say, you know what, I
• 45:25
  got to really look at Bitcoin because I was buying all these
• 45:27
  other things. I was into gold and silver, I
• 45:29
  was into real estate and using debt because that's the system
• 45:32
  we have a Fiat system is the debt.
• 45:34
  He who has the debt wins at the end of the day.
• 45:36
  And now with its savings, right. If you're in a Bitcoin standard,
• 45:39
  savings is the asset where again, it's it's perfect that
• 45:42
  LBO is here because debt is the asset in a Fiat system.
• 45:45
  But that's a sophisticated world you have to live in.
• 45:47
  You have to be the sailors or doing bur methods in real estate
• 45:51
  or you got to be doing LB OS in business.
• 45:53
  That's a very sophisticated world and average person can't
• 45:55
  do it. So that's what has me so
• 45:57
  excited. I know you 2 gentlemen and
• 45:59
  everyone here in the chat. That's why we are so pushed and
• 46:02
  you feel compelled. I mean, in your heart, right?
• 46:04
  Like in your deep inside your gut, your heart, your intuition.
• 46:08
  You don't want to see everyone else get burned.
• 46:10
  And and that's where it comes from.
• 46:12
  It's it's truly it's, it's actually doing altruistic
• 46:15
  things, unlike, you know, FTX and Sam Bankman freed, you know,
• 46:18
  these fake Fiat altruism. It's actually like, wow, I see
• 46:22
  something that none of us were taught and and none of no one
• 46:26
  really sees. I have to, I feel compelled to
• 46:28
  now go share this. And, and it takes time though,
• 46:30
  even though, because we've all grown up in that world, like you
• 46:32
  guys are saying, you know, Sam Callan's tweet, he puts that on
• 46:36
  someone's desk. How do you not think about that
• 46:37
  all day long? It just takes time.
• 46:39
  I mean, I was, I was someone in this world and many of us, we
• 46:41
  are in this financial world, in this business world.
• 46:43
  And it still takes you time because of any number of things,
• 46:46
  because it's, I have 4 kids, I've got family, I've got a lot
• 46:49
  of family members. Some people have no family
• 46:51
  members and they're traveling all over the world and they're
• 46:53
  busy, right? So it's just any number of
• 46:54
  combinations. And it's only been 15 years
• 46:56
  since Bitcoin was was invented, created, discovered.
• 46:59
  So that's where it the, the speed at which we have moved
• 47:03
  really is unbelievable. And the fact that presidents,
• 47:07
  presidential candidates are forced to come.
• 47:09
  I mean, you don't change Bitcoin.
• 47:10
  Bitcoin changes you. They were forced to come speak
• 47:12
  at the Bitcoin conference. I mean, you think about that.
• 47:15
  That is insane. And the banks, sovereign wealth
• 47:18
  funds, they're all coming because it's inevitable.
• 47:20
  It's the, the, the chicken too tasty as the, as the, that one
• 47:23
  football player said about the Chick-fil-A like, I'm not giving
• 47:26
  this up. I'm not, I'm not cancelling this
• 47:28
  thing, man. Sorry.
• 47:29
  Chicken too tasty, Bitcoin's too good.
• 47:31
  The properties are just too good, you know, So that's we'll
• 47:34
  leave it at that. Yeah, the chicken's too tasty.
• 47:38
  There's some, there's something you said, and I was just
• 47:41
  thinking the the irony of Wells Fargo or even any of these banks
• 47:46
  starting to embrace Bitcoin when it's just so simple to buy
• 47:50
  Bitcoin, saving Bitcoin, you just don't sell it.
• 47:53
  Just store, store your value in Bitcoin.
• 47:55
  And it, it, the irony isn't lost on me that we are having, you
• 47:58
  know, banks, which are basically, you know, just
• 48:02
  investors with your money are now like, actually, you know
• 48:05
  what, like we got to embrace this Bitcoin thing and we're
• 48:07
  over here like it's just stupid simple, just saving some
• 48:10
  Bitcoin. But of course, like that
• 48:11
  legitimacy that comes from the big brand names and the suits
• 48:15
  it, it does give us a stamp of approval for everyone out there.
• 48:18
  Now they all have to look at Bitcoin as a legitimate
• 48:20
  investment or a legitimate way to store your value.
• 48:22
  But the irony isn't lost on me that like, oh, you know, these
• 48:26
  very complicated institutions that do some super ridiculous
• 48:30
  financial, some financial fuckery are out of here.
• 48:35
  Like, yeah, we're going to embrace Bitcoin and we're just
• 48:38
  like just buy Bitcoin, just saving Bitcoin.
• 48:40
  It's super simple. Like keep it simple, stupid.
• 48:42
  This is the, this is the key ethos of Bitcoin here.
• 48:45
  But anyway, let's get into the culture 'cause I really do want
• 48:48
  to talk with LBO and and walk through this, this experiment,
• 48:52
  mental experiment. The daily culture.
• 49:02
  All right, boys and girls, mainly boys and some girls, make
• 49:07
  sure you get on the Orange Paul app.
• 49:09
  Go to orangepaulapp.com. Stack friends who stack sets.
• 49:12
  As we've been talking about constantly on the show, Bitcoin
• 49:16
  is the new money. It's the better money.
• 49:18
  And when Bitcoin goes where we think it will go, you want to
• 49:22
  ensure that these relationships you've built on the Internet are
• 49:26
  solidified in meat space. Because as a Bitcoiner there,
• 49:31
  there's potentially 2 roads we can go down.
• 49:34
  One that is a little more scary and you want to have a local
• 49:37
  community of like minded individuals to insulate
• 49:40
  yourself. And one where Bitcoin just
• 49:42
  completely takes over the world and you want to make sure that
• 49:46
  your network is filled with high-powered individuals with
• 49:50
  high-powered money. And that's what you can get on
• 49:52
  the Orange Pull app. So if you're the balloon and
• 49:55
  crazy Bitcoin in your community, jump on the Orange Pull app.
• 49:58
  Make sure you try to connect with people.
• 50:00
  If there's no one in your area, put an event out there and maybe
• 50:04
  more people will show up, but this is the goal stack friends
• 50:07
  who stacks sats and actually interesting story for you guys.
• 50:11
  This is how we got today's guest on was because of orange pill
• 50:17
  app Bitcoin LBO reached out to Nico on the orange pill app and
• 50:22
  he's like, yo, I want to come on and talk about this Bitcoin LBO
• 50:25
  idea. So we got him on the show.
• 50:28
  Anyways, let's start with I saw someone in the chat LBO first
• 50:32
  and foremost, they they don't know what an LBO is.
• 50:35
  They don't know what a leveraged buyout is, so can we just start
• 50:37
  from the basics so the audience can catch up speed with what
• 50:41
  you're talking about from the rest of the show?
• 50:43
  Yeah. So tip typical LBO, what what
• 50:46
  happens is an investor group of investors, they'll come forward
• 50:51
  and say they've got, you know, $100 million, but they want to
• 50:55
  buy a $500 million market cap company or they want to pay $500
• 50:59
  million. They'll go to banks who will
• 51:01
  then say, OK, we'll lend you the other $400 million.
• 51:05
  And here's going to be the rate of return.
• 51:07
  Here's, you know, the, the time you have to pay it back.
• 51:09
  All of these terms and conditions on the debt.
• 51:12
  And then the, the bet that the group that's doing the purchase,
• 51:16
  making that at the end of it, they'll be able to sell the
• 51:18
  company for more than what they've paid for it.
• 51:21
  And so it's a, it's a relatively, I mean, Brandon's
• 51:23
  brought up the idea of real estate a couple times.
• 51:25
  It's very similar lot of leverage, real estates, one of
• 51:28
  the most highly leveraged asset classes.
• 51:30
  This is taking that level of leverage and applying it to
• 51:33
  stocks. And so when you hear about
• 51:35
  companies in the news like, oh, there was a, a, a bid for, you
• 51:39
  know, whatever company, you know, and it, it was for $50 a
• 51:44
  share and the company was trading at 35 or $40 a share,
• 51:48
  it's almost certain that, that that's like an LBO type
• 51:50
  purchase. It's where people look at the
• 51:52
  potential market value of usually equities.
• 51:56
  And they say, if I just did all this radical restructuring and,
• 52:00
  and really simplified the cost structure, made the company more
• 52:03
  efficient, I'd be able to sell it in five or seven years for,
• 52:07
  you know, twice what I paid for. And that's kind of the typical
• 52:11
  thought process that LBO, you know, operator will will go
• 52:15
  through. And so it often involves a lot
• 52:17
  of pain at the company that's targeted because they have to
• 52:19
  make pretty radical changes to change the share price, to
• 52:22
  change the earnings trajectory of a company that's, you know,
• 52:25
  market cap of that sort it, it takes a lot of movement in the
• 52:30
  in the operations. And so these people generally
• 52:33
  considered some of the smartest of the traditional financial
• 52:36
  people, they can also make some dumb moves.
• 52:38
  There's no doubt about that. When you anything involving
• 52:40
  leverage, you can get wrecked pretty quickly.
• 52:42
  As, as you know, even bitcoiners know that with some of the stuff
• 52:45
  that happened in the last year. So that's the basics of an LBO
• 52:48
  and, and the kind of people who put it together are, like I
• 52:50
  said, there's considered some of the most savvy people they've
• 52:52
  got, you know, global networks typically, and, and they can
• 52:55
  figure out if, if anyone can move the needle on on a share
• 52:59
  price by the 30 to 40% that we were talking about compared to
• 53:03
  the micro strategy, it's these kinds of people.
• 53:05
  So I give the credit where credit is due, but I think that
• 53:08
  there's even bigger fish, fish to fry in, in the LBO world.
• 53:11
  But it would require having a pool of capital that was
• 53:13
  accessible and able to invest. And that's where I think Bitcoin
• 53:16
  being a / a trillion dollar asset, you know, we used to
• 53:20
  talk, I remember reading a lot about decentralized finance and
• 53:23
  these kind of like, you know, it was a little bit more associated
• 53:26
  with Ethereum. But I think there's some, some
• 53:27
  similar concepts would apply where you pull together your
• 53:30
  Bitcoin. I put in a Bitcoin, you put in
• 53:31
  half a Bitcoin, pretty soon it's real money.
• 53:33
  And then you could go out and see which companies would fit
• 53:36
  your criteria to do this kind of a leveraged buyout.
• 53:39
  Love it, love it. OK, so let's transition more
• 53:42
  into like the technicals of how this Bitcoin LBO would work or
• 53:47
  using Bitcoin as a collateral. And, and you mentioned in the in
• 53:51
  the e-mail our our correspondent back and forth about using
• 53:54
  Bitcoin as collateral to buy companies and putting these
• 53:57
  companies on a Bitcoin standard like MicroStrategy.
• 54:00
  And you kind of talked about it earlier in the news of the
• 54:02
  incentive for the CEOs and why it's a no brainer.
• 54:05
  So maybe start at the beginning of how the mechanics of Bitcoin
• 54:09
  LBL would work and then why it is a no brainer for the CEOs.
• 54:13
  Right. So once you've got, once you've
• 54:15
  got your capital available to make the purchase, right, that,
• 54:17
  that mix of collateral that's Bitcoin and, and, and debt
• 54:21
  that's underwritten by, by banks, then you go to the
• 54:24
  company's board of directors and say, hey, we want to buy your
• 54:26
  company. Here's the price, here's the
• 54:28
  price you're trading at. Now it's absolutely your
• 54:31
  fiduciary duty to hand over the keys to this company to us,
• 54:35
  right As and we would be the new beneficiary owners.
• 54:39
  And then once you do that, you go in and you talk to the CFO,
• 54:41
  the chief financial officer, and you basically say, look, you've
• 54:44
  been investing in, in projects and assuming that your cost of
• 54:48
  capital is 10%. Jesse Myers has a great article
• 54:51
  about this creases BTC, right? Here's a great thing about how
• 54:55
  why Bitcoin should be a cost of capital.
• 54:57
  A lot of these companies are investing in things that maybe
• 54:59
  return 1012% when what they should be doing is holding those
• 55:02
  dollars on the balance sheet in Bitcoin and Bitcoin be
• 55:06
  appreciating at the 25 to 30% range.
• 55:09
  That way over time, you're investing only in new
• 55:12
  investments that actually give you a higher expected return
• 55:15
  than Bitcoin. Now, there's a lot of gaming in
• 55:17
  how you set the the expected return, but for the most part,
• 55:20
  if you set the bar that high, companies are going to keep
• 55:24
  their cash on their balance sheet, they're going to convert
• 55:26
  to Bitcoin. And presumably, if the
• 55:28
  trajectory that we all think is going to happen with Bitcoin
• 55:31
  happens, a, a dollar that the corporation saves today will
• 55:34
  turn many dollars on the balance sheet later.
• 55:36
  And now these companies, like I said, they're actually fairly
• 55:39
  well run for, for the markets they're in.
• 55:41
  There's not a lot of dumb people in the executive suite, but
• 55:44
  there's no real impetus to get outside of the company, you
• 55:48
  know, kind of portfolio as it is.
• 55:50
  And so they end up chasing these projects that don't really pan
• 55:52
  out. And that's what I've seen over
• 55:54
  my career. And I'm kind of like, there's
• 55:55
  got to be a better way for the company to save its money too.
• 55:57
  I mean, this isn't just related to individuals.
• 55:59
  This is company level 2 and Bitcoin is in my opinion.
• 56:03
  I've come to the conclusion that Bitcoin is the answer to that.
• 56:06
  Love it, absolutely love it. Everyone in the chat is like,
• 56:09
  wait, this is very interesting. Excuse me guys, Chuck to my
• 56:13
  saliva. OK, LBL, what what do you think
• 56:16
  the institutional managers need to see to make this play?
• 56:19
  And, and what are the potential risk out there for the CEOs to
• 56:23
  to actually dive in head first in in this strategy?
• 56:26
  Yeah, I think, you know, Michael Saylor, I think he hits on all
• 56:29
  the all the bases with, you know, fasby rule is important
• 56:33
  because that gives the companies the ability to value it
• 56:35
  correctly on the balance sheet, right.
• 56:38
  I think the other thing is the bank custody, because banks want
• 56:42
  to hold the collateral. They don't want the collateral
• 56:44
  to just be kind of floating out there and your, your, your cold
• 56:46
  storage or whatever. It has to kind of come together
• 56:49
  into a pool that the bank has, you know, transparency into
• 56:52
  what's in it. Of course, as custodians, they
• 56:55
  have no legal right to it unless the business fails and then you
• 56:58
  have to somehow put over some of the collateral to pay off, you
• 57:02
  know, their failure to pay the debts.
• 57:04
  So I think that that's, those are two things that I think are
• 57:07
  key. I mean, I think I forget Michael
• 57:09
  Saylor's third one off the top of my head, but.
• 57:11
  I think it was the ETF, I think it was the.
• 57:13
  ETF and the ETF is great because you know companies can't put
• 57:16
  that on their balance sheet, but even that's not as beneficial
• 57:20
  because that's still a security. And so it falls under securities
• 57:24
  asset allocations on the balance sheet.
• 57:26
  Whereas you know, as you've seen with MicroStrategy, they don't
• 57:28
  own the ETF, they own the spot Bitcoin because they have no
• 57:31
  limit on that because it's a commodity and commodities like
• 57:35
  an oil company can hold oil on its balance sheet, but any
• 57:37
  company can hold Bitcoin on their balance sheet, right,
• 57:39
  because it it fits with the IT fits with the the, the
• 57:42
  accounting rule. So a little bit less of a
• 57:44
  benefit to the company from the ETF.
• 57:46
  I'm sure some companies will buy some ETF, maybe as a way of
• 57:50
  avoiding the, the rigors of self custody, which you know, I'm,
• 57:54
  I'm sure at that level are, are pretty significant.
• 57:57
  And and Michael Saylor, I know, and MicroStrategy, they develop
• 57:59
  a whole playbook. But I think that those are those
• 58:01
  are the two big things. And then I think the other thing
• 58:03
  is, once someone does it, it will become like lemmings off a
• 58:07
  Cliff, because that's how the traditional financial world
• 58:09
  works, right? You have financial panics and
• 58:11
  financial booms is because once someone sees someone doing
• 58:14
  something successful, they follow or if they see something
• 58:16
  fail, they want to get out as quickly as possible.
• 58:18
  I mean, so I think that that's, that's part of the game theory
• 58:21
  of it all is if one company buys a, a, a company or you know,
• 58:25
  this pool of Bitcoin capital buys a company and within a
• 58:28
  couple of years the share price is up 10X, Other people are not
• 58:31
  gonna look at that and say, oh, that can't be replicated.
• 58:34
  Of course, at at a certain point you have diminishing returns,
• 58:37
  but I don't think we're anywhere near that yet.
• 58:39
  Love it, love it and you you told me this early the show, but
• 58:42
  just for the audience, who would be the the ideal person to
• 58:47
  achieve this Bitcoin LBO you you were saying it might it might
• 58:50
  have to be some really deep pocketed whales.
• 58:53
  Why? Why?
• 58:54
  Obviously it it once you think it through, it's very obvious.
• 58:57
  But will you hash this out for everyone?
• 59:00
  Yeah, so think about it. You know, a lot of people say,
• 59:02
  oh, well, Bitcoin has no yield, right?
• 59:03
  So it doesn't have a yield. But if you put your money to
• 59:06
  work, you put your Bitcoin to work in an operating company
• 59:09
  like, you know, MicroStrategy or you know, I've used the example
• 59:13
  of grocery stores, they're just cash cows.
• 59:15
  You, that's your yield, right? I mean, and so, yeah, you'd need
• 59:18
  some whales because you want to get as much scale as possible,
• 59:22
  right? There's a big grocery merger
• 59:25
  happening right now with a company called Kroger and their
• 59:27
  market cap is about $30 billion. And so they're merging with
• 59:31
  another big operator of grocery stores.
• 59:33
  That's another, you know, multi 10s of billions of dollars
• 59:36
  company. So, but if you can buy a $30
• 59:39
  billion company and turn it into a $300 billion company simply by
• 59:43
  the Bitcoin strategy, you know, again, that's kind of a no
• 59:46
  brainer to pay even 5075 million for it, right?
• 59:49
  75 billion, Excuse me. So I think that that's that's
• 59:52
  the kind of numbers I'm thinking about to make it really
• 59:55
  scalable. And there's two, you know,
• 59:58
  there's, there's many, many hundreds of billions of dollars
• 1:00:01
  sitting on corporate Cash, Cash, cash balances that could be
• 1:00:04
  converted to Bitcoin without impacting the operation.
• 1:00:07
  Of the company because they don't need that cash for
• 1:00:09
  day-to-day operations they just basically generate enough cash
• 1:00:12
  to be able to fund their operations day-to-day without
• 1:00:14
  ever dipping into the treasury and so treasury gets bigger and
• 1:00:17
  bigger and they have a harder time allocating it and things
• 1:00:19
  like that. So these are the kinds of
• 1:00:21
  companies that I think would be they're publicly owned so they
• 1:00:23
  have no they they can't really not sell to a pool of capital.
• 1:00:28
  And if some Bitcoin mail said, Hey, you know, I've got 10,000
• 1:00:31
  Bitcoin, you know, I'm an early, early OG, I'm going to put that
• 1:00:34
  into the pool. And now all of a sudden the, the
• 1:00:36
  scope of the companies and scale of the companies you can buy
• 1:00:39
  becomes that much bigger. I mean, you could start at a
• 1:00:41
  small scale. It's just let's scale this up
• 1:00:43
  and, and, and make it, make it real.
• 1:00:44
  So we everyone that whole trillion dollars of Bitcoin, if
• 1:00:48
  you leverage, leverage up the way that LB OS do, then you can
• 1:00:51
  buy like 5, six, $7 trillion worth of companies.
• 1:00:53
  That's a lot of companies. Incredible, incredible.
• 1:00:56
  I, I, it's really not a pivot, but I do.
• 1:01:00
  And we talked about this again before the show and I, I do, I
• 1:01:04
  want you to like expand for the audience out there.
• 1:01:07
  This idea, of course, is Bitcoin LBL product or or rather mental
• 1:01:11
  experiment that we're walking through right now.
• 1:01:13
  But earlier, before we started the show, you were chatting
• 1:01:16
  about this idea of how Bitcoin interacts with traditional
• 1:01:19
  financial world. And we're seeing that there's
• 1:01:22
  many opportunities. So, you know, looking down in
• 1:01:25
  the future, what are the different ways that you think
• 1:01:27
  Bitcoin will react with the traditional financial world?
• 1:01:30
  I know a lot of Bitcoiners are like, oh, Bitcoins going to
• 1:01:32
  replace the dollar. It seems like you're kind of
• 1:01:36
  with the symbiotic view here that like traditional financial
• 1:01:40
  world and Bitcoin can coexist for the betterment of of
• 1:01:43
  everyone. Certainly in the short run, I
• 1:01:45
  mean, I think I, I think the central issue that will develop
• 1:01:48
  over the long run and just me speculating 'cause we don't
• 1:01:51
  know, we've had, we've had Fiat money, we've had central banks,
• 1:01:54
  we've had, you know, metallic money for much of human history.
• 1:01:57
  But even that was debased, right?
• 1:01:58
  People would melt the coins and add different elements to them
• 1:02:01
  that weren't, you know, part of the initial monetary, you know,
• 1:02:04
  medals. So I think that the the final,
• 1:02:07
  if there is a final death knell of, of Fiat, it's going to come
• 1:02:11
  from people just getting tired of the constant fine tuning of
• 1:02:16
  the economy. You know, Bitcoin doesn't have
• 1:02:19
  12 people in a room trying to decide the interest rate, the
• 1:02:21
  cost of money. It's a free market for money.
• 1:02:24
  So I think over time you may end up with people who just get sick
• 1:02:28
  of it. I mean, as I said in, in the
• 1:02:30
  before the show, I, I kind of threw in the towel on Fiat money
• 1:02:33
  a little bit when, after the 2008 financial crisis when they
• 1:02:37
  just changed the rules. And I think over time, more and
• 1:02:39
  more people will get there because as the system goes on,
• 1:02:42
  I, my perspective is the benefits of the Fiat system are
• 1:02:45
  accruing to fewer and fewer people.
• 1:02:47
  And that's just a recipe for people to revolt and say, I, I
• 1:02:50
  don't want this anymore. And, and Bitcoin is there is the
• 1:02:53
  answer, just as Satoshi kind of indicated when he said, you
• 1:02:56
  know, in the, in the genesis block, you know, oh, the Bank of
• 1:02:58
  England, OK, is the second bailout, right?
• 1:03:00
  They're already changing the rules after changing the rules,
• 1:03:03
  right? So it's, it's a no win game.
• 1:03:05
  Constantly on a treadmill with Fiat, I think people will
• 1:03:07
  realize and drop out and, and the, the surplus value of, you
• 1:03:10
  know, what they save versus what they consume would would be best
• 1:03:13
  stored in, in, in Bitcoin or over, you know, any kind of
• 1:03:16
  period of time that's longer than a few months or, you know,
• 1:03:19
  a couple couple years. Love it, love it.
• 1:03:22
  OK, Brandon, do you want to chime in here?
• 1:03:24
  You got any questions for LBO or comments from a more layman
• 1:03:28
  perspective here? What's your thoughts on this?
• 1:03:31
  Yeah, yeah, I don't pretend to be that smart, but I'm just, I'm
• 1:03:36
  just dumb jock hockey play and real estate guy over here.
• 1:03:40
  Yeah, I, I think that I, I couldn't agree more though that
• 1:03:43
  that Titanic is going down. You know, we're all on it and,
• 1:03:46
  and which is the Fiat debt based legacy monetary system and it,
• 1:03:50
  but it takes a while. It took what, 234 hours for the
• 1:03:52
  Titanic to go down, right. And that's probably 100 years or
• 1:03:55
  whatever, basically in our terms in in in USI guess post 1913.
• 1:04:01
  So like LBO said, people will keep realizing it.
• 1:04:04
  And I touched on this earlier too.
• 1:04:05
  Like it just takes time. I was studying this game hard
• 1:04:08
  after 08 too, like leaving Michigan State University
• 1:04:10
  playing hockey. I was playing professional
• 1:04:12
  hockey and you had a lot of time.
• 1:04:13
  And so I'm watching the crash unfold in 2010, 1112 as a early
• 1:04:16
  20 something. And like, I gotta figure this
• 1:04:18
  game out and all I was doing was studying and go play hockey for
• 1:04:21
  four hours a day, work out, whatever.
• 1:04:23
  And I had a lot of time to just study, watch the news or
• 1:04:25
  whatever, study more and, and eventually it still took me 567
• 1:04:28
  years in 20/17/2018 to finally get in when I've been studying
• 1:04:32
  these things for that long. So it just, it takes a while.
• 1:04:36
  But in in to this other part of it, of the LBO part, it does
• 1:04:40
  feel like it's maybe a cycle away LBO to your to kind of what
• 1:04:45
  you're saying. It feels like we need some more.
• 1:04:47
  Not well, we need more whales in the sense that we need, you
• 1:04:50
  know, we're, I feel like we're at a critical mass where there
• 1:04:52
  is enough people in the space, but we need those people to be a
• 1:04:55
  bit wealthier, right? Like we're in that space where
• 1:04:57
  there it's a numbers game at the end of the day, Like how many
• 1:04:59
  intelligent people are there to be able to with enough
• 1:05:02
  purchasing power to then put this together and do that?
• 1:05:04
  That's just life cycles, right? So I think that to your point, I
• 1:05:07
  couldn't agree more. It feels like this next, you
• 1:05:09
  know, 246 years, it's going to be a lot of that happening.
• 1:05:12
  It feels like the next obvious thing with Sailor doing what he
• 1:05:15
  did over the last four years, setting that tone for a lot of
• 1:05:17
  these companies. And now you're going to see, I
• 1:05:19
  mean, here we are, right? We're, we're talking about it,
• 1:05:21
  right, 2024, we're talking about this feels like we're at that
• 1:05:24
  launch point for like this next phase from, you know, that was
• 1:05:28
  2024 and now we're 24 and 28 where you have like, OK, what's
• 1:05:31
  the next evolution of this? But it, and I agree too, it
• 1:05:35
  feels like we're very far from diminishing returns.
• 1:05:37
  I mean, I, I would, I would guess that we're 1020 years away
• 1:05:40
  from that again, right along with the sailor thesis that he
• 1:05:43
  laid out I think in Prague last year with the maybe it comes
• 1:05:45
  down to 14% eventually just kind of, you know, whatever it is 50
• 1:05:50
  years from now or 20 or 100 years.
• 1:05:52
  So, yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I, I feel like, again, we've
• 1:05:55
  talked about real estate a few times.
• 1:05:57
  I asked Jeff Boothis when I interviewed him recently, like,
• 1:06:00
  why aren't more real estate guys with his real estate background?
• 1:06:02
  Why aren't more real estate people doing this?
• 1:06:04
  And the answer, which was the only thing that made sense to me
• 1:06:07
  was just time horizon, right? Like, again, this is one of
• 1:06:10
  those things where it's hard for people.
• 1:06:11
  I saw people in the chat like, why isn't the price going up?
• 1:06:13
  And these, these all make sense. Why?
• 1:06:15
  But the same time, you know, as a guy who still has rental
• 1:06:18
  properties, it's not, it's not super easy to just all of a
• 1:06:20
  sudden up and sell a business or up and sell real estate, right?
• 1:06:23
  There's tax implications. There's they're far away or it's
• 1:06:26
  this and that again, family like life.
• 1:06:28
  They these things happen where you can't just drop everything.
• 1:06:31
  And just like I'm selling everything.
• 1:06:32
  I've I've sold a a number of them, but I haven't been able to
• 1:06:35
  sell them. All right.
• 1:06:36
  And you're trying to take years for these pieces to fall in
• 1:06:39
  place and to try to get these things together.
• 1:06:41
  So everything, all the it's, it's like you're trying to find
• 1:06:44
  clues and we have everything right in front of us.
• 1:06:46
  We see we're we're picking up all the the bread trail, you
• 1:06:48
  know, crumbs and, and you see what's happening and it's just
• 1:06:52
  being able to pattern recognize and say, yeah, this is this is
• 1:06:55
  happening and trust your gut, trust your instinct and know
• 1:06:58
  where this is going. And, and it just, it takes a
• 1:07:01
  long time because daily day in and day out, only so much can
• 1:07:05
  happen And and that's where you have to look back at the macro
• 1:07:08
  and say, OK, this is this is what's happening.
• 1:07:10
  The the last thing I'll say really quick is the Mark Moss
• 1:07:14
  just recently again did his retire on Bitcoin thing and kind
• 1:07:17
  of laid out the big thing and he talked a lot about just just
• 1:07:20
  lending against your Bitcoin 5 or 10% and doing that.
• 1:07:24
  I again at in this, that's why I love LB.
• 1:07:27
  I was talking about this my, I always thought of phase one as
• 1:07:30
  accumulation, at least for me in my life, where you have
• 1:07:32
  accumulation phase. And then phase two for me was
• 1:07:35
  how are you redeploying this Bitcoin?
• 1:07:36
  And again, we're getting to this phase now where there's enough
• 1:07:38
  Bitcoiners with enough purchasing power.
• 1:07:40
  This is going to start taking effect during the next few
• 1:07:41
  years. What are you doing at the
• 1:07:43
  Bitcoin? How are you putting it back into
• 1:07:45
  society? And, and for me, it's probably
• 1:07:47
  going to be apartment complex. Is it probably going to be more
• 1:07:49
  real estate? When my tenants, I'll know this.
• 1:07:51
  I was telling people I'll know when we're in hyper
• 1:07:53
  bitcoinization #1 when my tenants can pay me back in
• 1:07:55
  Bitcoin, I'll know absolutely. I'll know that the cycle is
• 1:07:58
  healed. I know things are better at that
• 1:08:00
  point and I can kind of creep back out of my hole and, and
• 1:08:03
  things are, you know, the dust is kind of settled.
• 1:08:05
  That's number one. But in the in the interim, and I
• 1:08:07
  saw again in the chat, people are talking about Bitcoin needs
• 1:08:10
  the dollar. Bitcoin doesn't need the dollar.
• 1:08:12
  You know, the dollar is nothing. Dollar is fake, it's Fiat, It's
• 1:08:14
  it's smoke and mirrors and the the dollar needs Bitcoin at the
• 1:08:18
  end of the day, if anything, if anything, but Bitcoin will just
• 1:08:20
  be traded straight up. You either trade straight up
• 1:08:22
  your Bitcoin for a business or for a real estate or whatever it
• 1:08:24
  is. Or in the interim, which was
• 1:08:26
  what confuses a lot of normies, a lot of people, they're like,
• 1:08:29
  well, what happens again with the dollar goes away or they're,
• 1:08:32
  they're thinking of these questions, which are normal, but
• 1:08:35
  you have to live in two worlds, right?
• 1:08:36
  We still live in a Fiat world, in a Bitcoin world.
• 1:08:38
  So it it is tough and you have to live in one of my definitions
• 1:08:42
  of genius is is being able to hold opposing opinions in your
• 1:08:44
  head. At the same time, you have to be
• 1:08:46
  able to live in both worlds and meaning, can you lend against
• 1:08:49
  your Bitcoin? Again, we're not talking
• 1:08:50
  anything crazy, but lend against it and then go buy productive
• 1:08:53
  assets with that Bitcoin that you lent out.
• 1:08:56
  But and becomes Fiat, right? You're taking that Fiat to go
• 1:08:58
  buy a business, go buy a car wash, go buy an apartment
• 1:09:01
  complex or whatever it is and then produce more Bitcoin or
• 1:09:05
  maybe it's more Fiat, but then you turn it back into Bitcoin,
• 1:09:07
  right? And you're so to me, it's
• 1:09:08
  fascinating all of you. Like, I love this conversation
• 1:09:10
  because it does feel like we're on the precipice of this is the
• 1:09:12
  next phase. And I think this is what the
• 1:09:14
  Bitcoiners are going to start seeing more of and more people
• 1:09:16
  talking about. So I love they're having this
• 1:09:18
  conversation now. It's just, it's beautiful stuff.
• 1:09:20
  Yeah. And I, I think there's a, there
• 1:09:22
  was a question in there that I'm going to take and ask LBL, what
• 1:09:26
  is your, your time horizon on this?
• 1:09:28
  Like when do you think that this might catch on?
• 1:09:31
  Is it this cycle, next cycle? Is it 2025 because the fasby
• 1:09:35
  rules are coming in? Like what?
• 1:09:36
  What is the time frame on this? So if I, if I'm forced to answer
• 1:09:41
  that question, which I'm happy to do, I think you might want to
• 1:09:44
  think about as interest rates go lower, that something like this
• 1:09:48
  becomes more viable, right? Interest rates have have a big
• 1:09:52
  impact on the, the cost of the debt that you borrow in.
• 1:09:55
  Now, the interesting thing about that is Sailor is able to get
• 1:09:58
  debt at far below the market interest rate.
• 1:10:00
  And it's in, in my opinion, and I think if you hear him talk,
• 1:10:04
  he, he says this almost explicitly, it's because Bitcoin
• 1:10:07
  is the collateral it's holding, right?
• 1:10:10
  So that collateral quality gets you a lower interest rate.
• 1:10:14
  So right now he, I think he's paying like, you know, a little
• 1:10:16
  bit over 2%, two and a half, 3%. But as interest rates at the Fed
• 1:10:21
  level come down, this kind of a strategy will become even more
• 1:10:25
  viable because it's like basically free money to go out
• 1:10:27
  and buy productive assets. To Brandon's point, I mean,
• 1:10:30
  that's, that's how you put your Bitcoin to work, is buying those
• 1:10:32
  productive assets that are going to generate the cash flows that
• 1:10:35
  you then subsequently almost immediately turn around and turn
• 1:10:38
  put the Bitcoin. If, if, if, if, you know,
• 1:10:41
  companies would do this voluntarily, I wouldn't, I
• 1:10:43
  wouldn't have this discussion, right?
• 1:10:44
  It's the fact that companies are so gun shy and the executives
• 1:10:47
  are career risk shy that, that I'm trying to put this out in
• 1:10:50
  the discourse to say, Hey, can we get some people to coordinate
• 1:10:53
  and they in a, in a legal way. Obviously, you know, one of the
• 1:10:56
  risks I think is the FTC may have some, some questions,
• 1:11:00
  right? There could be issues around the
• 1:11:02
  size of the investors. So a lot of these big liquid
• 1:11:05
  capital pools, they have to have like 1,000,000 bucks just to, to
• 1:11:08
  pay the entrance fee kind of thing.
• 1:11:09
  So you got to be an accredited investor.
• 1:11:11
  So some of those legal hurdles, you know, would would probably
• 1:11:14
  also need to come down. Love it, love it.
• 1:11:18
  OK, LBL final, final question. We are coming close to the end
• 1:11:23
  of the show, but what is the last advice, the final two sets
• 1:11:27
  that you want to leave with the audience?
• 1:11:28
  What's the final message that you want to leave with the
• 1:11:30
  audience? It could be about this Bitcoin
• 1:11:32
  LBL, it could be about Bitcoin in general.
• 1:11:34
  Just what's the final message? No matter what else you may have
• 1:11:39
  as an investment option, put at least half of what you can save
• 1:11:43
  for a period of a minimum of three years into Bitcoin and and
• 1:11:47
  I think you'll do very well. Incredible.
• 1:11:50
  Such simple advice. Love it.
• 1:11:52
  Love when you can just distill it down to simple advice,
• 1:11:55
  simple, actionable advice. Well, LBL, thanks for reaching
• 1:11:59
  out to us. I guess we'll have to bring you
• 1:12:01
  back on soon once we get some some more signs of this actually
• 1:12:05
  catching on. And you know what?
• 1:12:07
  We can point back to this episode and be like, hey, we
• 1:12:10
  were talking about this in September and now it's
• 1:12:13
  happening. And then we can flush this idea
• 1:12:15
  out a little more. So LBL really appreciate it.
• 1:12:19
  I guess you know you, you did, you know, it kind of docks your
• 1:12:22
  face a little bit. But if people want to reach out
• 1:12:24
  to you, where can they reach out to you?
• 1:12:27
  If not, you know what do you want to share?
• 1:12:29
  I've I've got a couple articles up on sub stack.
• 1:12:32
  One of them compares actually real estate in Saint Louis and
• 1:12:36
  real estate in San Francisco after the 19 O 6 real estate
• 1:12:40
  earthquake in San Francisco, which would you have been
• 1:12:42
  smarter to buy right because Saint Louis is one of booming
• 1:12:44
  cities at the time, but you would have been smarter to go
• 1:12:46
  out West. I think Bitcoin is the San
• 1:12:48
  Francisco in that analogy and and and Fiat money is the Saint
• 1:12:51
  Louis. But I I don't write much.
• 1:12:53
  I don't it's my first show I've ever appeared on.
• 1:12:55
  But I'm glad you guys enjoyed it, enjoyed the thesis, the
• 1:12:58
  thought experiment, and hopefully, you know, you like
• 1:13:01
  you say, there'll there'll be some, some uptick or there'll be
• 1:13:04
  something that happens in this space.
• 1:13:05
  I, I, I do think Bitcoin is the best collateral in the world
• 1:13:08
  and, and it should be used put to work.
• 1:13:10
  It's great for the compounding price, but the network effects
• 1:13:13
  of Bitcoin are so strong that I think we need to get more, more
• 1:13:16
  people into the network and that will drive the price
• 1:13:18
  appreciation for all of us who were in it before.
• 1:13:20
  And that's a lot of people talk about we front ran the
• 1:13:23
  institutions. If we can front run them in this
• 1:13:25
  way, this is just another way in which we may have front run
• 1:13:27
  them. Love it, absolutely love it.
• 1:13:30
  OK Brandon, thanks for filling in as Co host today.
• 1:13:33
  Thanks for coming off the bench. Plug your socials and you know
• 1:13:36
  you do, you do a couple of shows so you can plug them.
• 1:13:40
  Yeah, no, it just I, I love filling in, hosting a bean on
• 1:13:43
  the show, whatever. So I just appreciate you guys a
• 1:13:44
  ton. Yeah, you can find me at Brandon
• 1:13:46
  under score Genteeli on pretty much all the socials.
• 1:13:48
  I think we have our interview show just a YouTube channel
• 1:13:52
  there. It's my name.
• 1:13:54
  Obviously work with Bitcoin trading cards and you know, do
• 1:13:57
  marketing and PR and and help the team there.
• 1:14:00
  We've got an awesome team there trying to educate the world and
• 1:14:03
  the young, the old, the collector is everyone and how
• 1:14:05
  can we educate people? So I think that's I think that's
• 1:14:08
  about it. That's a little bit of
• 1:14:09
  everything. So appreciate you guys having me
• 1:14:11
  on and LBL, which is awesome talk.
• 1:14:13
  Great seeing you meeting you, and I can't wait to have more of
• 1:14:16
  these discussions here in the future.
• 1:14:19
  Yeah, man. All right, guys, let me pull you
• 1:14:21
  behind the scenes to wrap up today's show.
• 1:14:24
  All righty then, boys and girls, mainly boys, but some girls.
• 1:14:28
  Shouts out to the girls in the chat.
• 1:14:29
  This is your episode. Let me see what what number I
• 1:14:32
  think it's 1067 and this is September 3rd.
• 1:14:37
  If you think we provided you some value, subscribe to our
• 1:14:40
  YouTube channel, subscribe to our rumble channel, follow us on
• 1:14:43
  Twitter, give us a like on the show comment in the comments in
• 1:14:48
  the you know, on the on the videos share this to someone
• 1:14:51
  that maybe is potentially some deep pockets that might be
• 1:14:54
  thinking about this Bitcoin LBL project.
• 1:14:57
  But of course, we'll be back tomorrow.
• 1:14:59
  Normal schedule A normal programming, 12:15 PM.
• 1:15:02
  We go live Monday through Friday, same time every time.
• 1:15:07
  You guys can yell at us for being late.
• 1:15:08
  I know, I know, I know, but we love you guys.
• 1:15:10
  Have a good rest of your day. Get outside, touch some grass,
• 1:15:12
  get a workout and eat some good food.
• 1:15:14
  Call your mother, call your family, you know, make sure you
• 1:15:18
  are becoming a good person overall.
• 1:15:21
  It's not just about stacking sats, it's about becoming
• 1:15:23
  someone worthy of holding them sats.
• 1:15:25
  All right guys, on that note, it's your boy Opti and we will
• 1:15:29
  be back tomorrow. Peace out.
• 1:15:32
  It was brought to you by bitcoinwell.com on a mission to
• 1:15:36
  enable independence.