Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #268: RFK Jr.'s MAHA Reckoning: AI Doctors, Grassroots Revolt, and the Fight for Health Freedom (Part Two)

Transcript

Episode #268: RFK Jr.'s MAHA Reckoning: AI Doctors, Grassroots Revolt, and the Fight for Health Freedom (Part Two) · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Let me be honest.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my temperament and my outspokenness, they handed me that sheet.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: My first reaction was, forget it.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm heading back to Virginia.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna treat me like that, be done with it.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: I did not walk away feeling betrayed.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I walked away feeling like Kennedy has done what he can do.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: With the limitations, the shackles, if you want to say, that have been placed upon him.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: He is one man fighting in this system.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: And there are still people in the bureaucracy that are fighting against him.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: He can only do so much.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know who needs to step up?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: The people.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: There is an awareness and an energy at the grassroots level in this country that I'm not gonna take it anymore.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everybody.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another Beyond Labels podcast with your host, Joel Salatin.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: That would be me, the farmer, and our favorite researcher, Dr.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is part two of a two-part series.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you if you missed part one, it'd be great to go back and listen to that before this one.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: But this will be a standalone uh based on the recent September 29th Maha Summit, which is billed as, you know, it's going to be an annual event now, supposedly in Washington, D.C.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, a kind of uh uh invitation-only uh uh assemblage of Maha um aficionados, influencers, and interested parties.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I got invited but didn't go.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Cena got invited and went and has taken a plethora of notes.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um so we have our own inside reporter, um, who's not just a reporter, but actually uh somebody who um uh knows and understands something about what she's hearing.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that adds that adds a wonderful additional dimension to it.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So uh at the end of the last one, uh we conclude we we kind of finished up talking about how how how the the um you know the summit really was pushing artificial intelligence in the health space.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so Cena, if you want to kind of finish up that whole AI discussion, uh then we'll move on to other things.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Joel.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yes, it it was and I have to say, it was very exciting to be uh invited to the summit and to go there.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um I will say that there were among the attendees, everybody who I met was really authentic, like good-hearted people, a lot of people who I would consider to be like the Maha original base, uh, they were there.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um so even though I'm sharing what I saw on the stage, one of the most interesting components of the summit was kind of the juxtaposition between what was being said on stage and what was being said amongst these attendees.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Joel, at one point, um, so you know me with my note-taking and um and you know, I was laser focused on trying to be accurate, uh, accurate recording of what people on stage were saying and capture it all.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was sitting as as close to the front as I was allowed to get.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And at one point, um, you know, I went with Hilistic Hilda, uh, Hilda Labradegore.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we were partners in this, and you know, um, she would take some notes too.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And at one point she looked at me and she goes, Hey, uh look behind you.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Joel, I turn around and look at this huge auditorium.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Almost everybody had left.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there were still speakers on stage, and almost everybody, all the attendees, had left.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: They'd gone into the next room, which is like the mingling room.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, why would they leave?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and Hilda's like, well, maybe we didn't get the memo that like everybody.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I walked out to go to the bathroom at one point, and I and I started asking people, why are you guys out here?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because people are talking on stage.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, we should be hearing what they're what they're actually saying.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, they're on stage.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's hear what they're saying and stuff.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and the this I talked to several people, and they all said something along the lines of they were walking out because they just couldn't hear it anymore.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was almost like a protest, you know, and that's my word, but it felt almost like a protest.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, we're not supporting this.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just can't hear one more word of, you know, the industry speak and whatever.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And there's already talk about, you know, has it been co-opted?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is it corrupt now or whatnot?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I find that really fascinating.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: I stayed in the room because I was like, I want to hear what's coming down the pike, you know, like the agenda has been set.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: We know Trump is a big push supporter of AI.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: He recently said something to the effect of data centers are going to become popular.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So this is not going anywhere.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, um there was one of the speakers from one of the AI platforms said that AI in healthcare is already here.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Just on Chat GPT alone, there's 300 million people every week that are using Chat GPT to search health-related questions.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so people are already using it.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it is already here.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: They also said that um another um AI proponent said that 42% of people who use AI for health love AI.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: He said that 58% of people who don't use um who who don't use AI, they hate it.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so what we need to do is we need more people to use AI.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if you could just get them to use AI, they're going to love it, is what they're saying.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, so that's the mentality behind it.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I and look, I want to say, and this is where I want to like challenge us and our listeners, I see that there's some benefits to AI.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I obviously am very apprehensive with this technology for multiple reasons that we've talked about before on this podcast.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: But AI has some uses, like if you're trying to compare studies, for example, you know, aggregate data, if it can act as almost like an integrative practitioner, right?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: We had integrated biologists in college, and those were the ones that would connect the dots.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: They would be well versed in different scientific disciplines.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so in theory, they could act more like a holistic scientist and connect the dots together when there was a problem.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: They can compare across scientific fields.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: AI has that ability to be able to compare.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of humans have not developed that ability.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that is one of my strengths in studying in different fields of science.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I can connect more dots than some people.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it helps me to see the body differently and to help people like reverse different ailments, for example.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Most people cannot do that.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: So AI could be helpful in that regard.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as I mentioned, there's a lot of millions of misdiagnoses every year.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: That is a potential benefit of using AI as that second opinion.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's obviously concerns with that, but to think that one in 20 Americans is misdiagnosed every year, according to that study, that large study, that's not acceptable.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: If this is a tool that can help prevent that kind of misdiagnoses, then that's, I would think that that's going to be a win.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and some of these diagnoses, Joel, are severe.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, a patient can come in with a cough, the doctor diagnoses them with bronchitis or asthma, but really the patient had lung cancer.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time they get the diagnosis, eventually, it's been many months.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Or there's an example of a patient.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is in the scientific literature, not from the conference.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: There I found an example of a patient who arrived in an emergency room.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: They were dizzy, they had a headache, a nausea.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: The doctor diagnosed them with a migraine and possible vertigo and sent them home, but the patient was actually having a stroke.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes there is a misdiagnosis, and it could help in that situation.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not one of those people that's gonna say, like, it's an all or nothing, like all AI is bad, you know?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely depends whose hands it is and how it is used.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it is probably a slippery slope, fully acknowledging that.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the thing they are right that AI is already here and it's here to stay.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: So now we need to figure out how to navigate within that landscape, right?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I and I do feel like it's probably a slippery slope in the sense that they're gonna start out by saying it's optional, you can opt into it.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then eventually, I think the the system is gonna operate using these platforms.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it might be a thing, well, well, if you want to go into the doctor's office, your data is gonna be shared on these platforms, or like to you need to use this wearable.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like they'll say now some of the some insurance companies will will give you money back, like um, to incentivize you to use a wearable.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: But you can see how easily that can be flipped to, oh, your wearable device said you are not prioritizing your sleep well.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so now your premium's gonna go up.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, you're not managing your stress well because your wearable can detect your heart rate variability and it's off, you know, you're in sympathetic state too much.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so, you know, you we're gonna raise your insurance rates, right?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: You you can see this slippery slope.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying that's going to happen, but it could be this unintended or possibly intended, how you look on it, consequence.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um so uh I'm approaching it with uh skepticism, but it's here.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're already using it to diagnose.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, for for example, one of the companies uh is using it to uh help people decrease their blood pressure.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they're claiming that by using their wearable, 82% of the people decrease their psych uh systolic blood pressure by 21 points.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're saying that's two times better than anything else that's ever been documented, documented to lower blood pressure.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're also using it as predictive models.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're saying that if they take um, you know, collect your records, this is that vertical data integration that we talked about in the last podcast.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: They take all that information, you have this wearable on, and they're saying that they can predict if you're gonna have a heart event in a 90-day window.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Which it's, you know, pretty amazing.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: So part of this obviously goes into what's the predictive model that they're using, right?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: What are these predictors?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's relying on Western medicine.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: So this gets into the part that I thought for me was most exciting.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, they're talking about looking at DNA fragments and such to um identify potential tumors in a body.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: These are these tumor DNA, DNA fragments that we talked about in part one of this episode.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: So clearly, you have to believe the DNA model in order to buy into that, that you have this potential DNA fragment in there.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's coming from this tumor, and so that means you have cancer.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, Joel.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: The most interesting person I met, and I said, and I, as I mentioned in the last one, there's all these top dogs there, and you know, people trying to get access to them.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And Russell Brand was there, and you know, um, Gary Brecca and these Mike Tyson, right?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know who I had the most fun talking to was a biophysicist.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't believe it.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: This was a total God thing, Joel, because there's there's a lot of people there.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: And he happened to sit next to me before the doors opened.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I just started to talk to him, ask, who, who are you?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I felt like I was at um one of the old science conferences that I used to be flown to at my previous job.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: He was amazing.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: So he he works on AI biophysics.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um he said that so many people are stuck in the physical realm.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: You've heard me talk about this.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're stuck at the biochemical level, right?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And now some people are moving from the biochemical level to the energetic level and what you would call quantum, you know, that there is a biofield, that we're all energy, we resonated a certain vibrational frequency.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: You've heard me talk about this.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is how homeopathy works, you know, and actually herbal remedies uh to for that matter.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: He said they are now past the quantum.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now they're into plasma physics.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And here, let me give you a couple examples.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and by the way, I I am looking into this more and and plan to have conversations with him and bring this to our listeners because this this is the fascinating cutting-edge research in how the body works so that we know how to best heal the body.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: I point blank asked him, does DNA exist?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: This question that you know, Dr.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Tom Cowan is spearheading, right?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Does this actually exist?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, We aren't sure at this point.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, even bringing in some doubt, okay.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: I asked him, do viruses exist?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And at that at this point, as I'm starting to ask him questions, because you know you want to be careful who you're talking to when you ask you these types of questions, right?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: So at first he was really high level.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: They might put you in a little padded room with men in white suits running around asking you strange questions.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so first he was very careful with how he was speaking to me, talking about heart rate variability and stuff.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then he mentioned um, he mentioned stable water clusters.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Whoa, are you talking about structured water?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, You know about structured water?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, so the conversation went on.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so finally, when I went, when I said, Does DNA exist?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: He said, You are my kind of people.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, You better say it softly, they're gonna lock you up.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, What?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so is the joke.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, he said, we aren't sure if so you ask him if di viruses exist.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Do viruses exist?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, No.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: He said they are recycled fragments or debris.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: So this fits more in line with how I was saying maybe they're detecting exosomes that are recycling fragments of the cells because God designed the beautiful the body in his, you know, unlimited wisdom.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so why wouldn't the body recycle, just like nature would recycle things, right?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: So he's saying these are, he believes these are actually recycled fragments or like cellular debris.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: They're kind of like a cleanup crew, which, you know, exosomes can be what a type of exosome can be classified that way.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna talk more about this and get into the nitty-gritty with it.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I thought this was fascinating.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: He agrees with me that we're all light.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, this is what it comes down to.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: We are light.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you know how structured water is the huge buzzword now, and there's people trying to sell wands and stuff, and they're calling it structured water.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: He said that he hates it when people say structured water.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like as a biophysicist, he hates that.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: He said that's not even accurate, which I'm gonna again, I'm looking more into this.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: He said they're technically called stable water clusters.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he said the water wraps into a double helix.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: What does that sound like, Joel?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: A double helix.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like a DNA.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it sounds like a DNA.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Does it look like DNA?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, Yes.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: That looks like DNA.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so anyway, this to me was fascinating.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: He was the most fascinating person I had met there.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're gonna talk more.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'll bring more to our listeners as I'm learning more.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Also, Sayer G was there, who you know is a friend of our program, who you know I I love and respect.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: He and I are doing a deep dive into this, and we are going to co-publish a paper on it, giving, you know, looking at what's in the literature, using our intuition, um, and letting people know what we think is actually happening in the body and whether or not DNA and viruses exist.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that's all coming up.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that was very, very exciting for me.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so let's move on to the next one.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I will tell you that a lot of people were not happy.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: As I mentioned, people, you know, were leaving the room.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: At one point, people had to go out into that mingling room and ask people to go back into the room to listen to the speakers.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um those are called the handlers.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: The the handlers.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they had to go out and uh and and uh push people back into the room.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And now look, I can understand how upsetting it is, you know, to see that lineup, to see the sponsors, to not have a fair and balanced debate on the stage, right?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um but here's where I want to get into more of things that I think some people might think are this is probably more of the controversial aspect aspect of this.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: We have um it seems like what's happened is Maha is being fractured again.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: There was actually what I would consider an ultimatum handed to Trump and uh Kennedy.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And Joel, I don't know if you've seen this or not, but this was um an open letter regarding the removal of the mRNA platform.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: It came out in mid-September, and it was signed by you know many prominent people like Robert Malone, Thomas Massey, Mike Adams, Dr.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Peter McCullough, Catherine Austin Fitz, Naomi Wolf, Tucker Carlson.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um the list goes on and on.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um Del Bigtree did not sign it.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um they're calling it a Maha mutiny.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: This was an open letter to, again, Trump and Kennedy, and they're demanding certain things, including they want a ban on the mRNA technology, they want to terminate and repeal the PrEP Act.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, they want to get rid of that emergency authorization use of um, you know, the COVID vaccine.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: They want to ban direct-to-consumer pharmaceutical advertising.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: They said, like every other country has done except the USA and New Zealand.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: They want to re to review and revise HHS policies that create the perverse incentives for health care providers to engage in medical co-coercion, including the vaccines.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they want to they want an end to the conflicts of interest at the CDC, FDA, NIH, and NAID.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: They're saying that so these are platforms that they that they perceive Kennedy promised, like that he ran on and promised and he has not fulfilled those promises.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: In this open letter, it says, quote, health freedom voters can and will walk away if we continue to see inactive or condescending non-policy on our core issues.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you continue to ignore the centerpiece of our policy agenda, you will pay a political price.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: We will run our own candidates at the state level, and we will support other challengers and sponsors who share our values.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they've really thrown down this ultimatum.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's causing it's causing a a distress, uh is a a a gentle word to say, you know, amongst the the Maha base.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, as you can see, you know, Massey, Malone, I mean, Malone is a huge name in or has been in the Maha force, you know.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: He was on the ASIP committee.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so the question is if Trump and Kennedy don't respond, are they gonna follow through and stop supporting Kennedy?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Are they gonna run their own candidates?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this this will further fracture for sure the Maha movement.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, Malone was has been very outspoken about Maha being captured.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh uh based on everything that I just mentioned that happened at the Maha Summit.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um he's he's been on some interviews saying that he thinks that Kennedy should say that he's not okay with this agenda.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um that he wants to push forward with his you know, Kennedy should say he wants to push forward with his own agenda agenda, and that we have to be really careful that we don't become that thing which we are criticizing.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um so he also is claiming that he he has kind of been uh a little bit ostracized by the Maha movement because his quote sin was that he sent out a tweet saying that there was this is this is Bobby Kennedy?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is Malone.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: So Malone is saying that he has somewhat been kind of pushed out of the Maha uh inner circle, if you will, because he created it, he committed a quote sin.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: He said that um in a tweet, he said that there's an active rumor going around DC that Dr.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oz and other members in HHS met for a strategy session.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Kennedy was not in the session.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: In the session, they actively discussed who would manage what and when the um or who would manage what task when Secretary Kennedy departs.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: He has said in an interview, Malone now has said that he tweeted that because he was somewhat suspicious of like they're gonna oust Kennedy and he was trying to raise alarms, alert people.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Trump saw that tweet and apparently blew a gasket.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: They scrambled to deny it, you know, as they do.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um and Kennedy said that Trump's statement implied that Kennedy is not really running HS HHS, that he is the big idea guy, and we appreciate his big ideas.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And Malone is saying that that means it sounds like Kennedy has now become a figurehead, that Chris Klomp is the one who's actually running HHS.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know if do you remember me talking about how the president came out with that most favored nation's drug pricing policy, and he's got a website about it.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a his one of his biggest accomplishments in the health space is reducing the drug prices.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And this was the issue that was more important than vaccines for the midterm elections because people care more about drug prices than they do about vaccines.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: So Chris Klump is um the is the guy who helped get that pushed through.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: So he is saying that Chris Klump is actually the one he said Chris Klump runs HHS full stop.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's a direct quote from Malone.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: So Joel, this is where it gets it's just it's it's interesting.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's um i if you let it get too close to you is infuriating, right?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: So this is why I say like I I I I like to stay independent and try to be impartial as possible.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have a dog in this fight because I never expected Kennedy to make all of these changes.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because as you and I both know, the system won't allow him to do it.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Even in the summit, somebody um said uh from the stage, somebody said, and I'm trying to find the exact quote in my notes, that um Kennedy wants this was under Maha regulations being modernized.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Kennedy wants transparency, but the agency fights it.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: This was nothing new to me.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: We know that the agency's been fighting him.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um we also I will tell you, I I I'm not allowed to say the name of the person who told me this.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody close to Kennedy did tell me at the Maha event, one of the events, to not underestimate incompetence in the government.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: So my question to this person who is close to Kennedy was you know, the mRNA flu vaccine by Moderna was approved in August 2026, right?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: The first one.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: My question to this person was, did Kennedy know?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did this thing just get approved without him knowing?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because he ran on a platform that mRNA was horrible and let's get rid of it.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: So did Kennedy know?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: The person kind of you know danced around the edges and did say, don't underestimate incompetence.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard that twice at the summit about incompetence and the agency pushing back.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, also there's gonna be some pushback from the handlers, like presidents' handlers and whatnot, like we talked about.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: If it's not a popular topic that can win you the midterms, you're not gonna be able to talk about that.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I I do think that just like you and I assumed, there's a lot of incompetence there.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of regulatory loopholes and stuff that that you know are on the books.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of tentacles that connect each of these uh institutions together.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: So he can't just go in there like a bulldog and change everything.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't walk away from the summit feeling let down by Kennedy or them.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: To me, it was actually just further evidence that this is what happens when a movement gets Washingtonized, if if that's even a word, right?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um there is even there's even this article that came out that talking about how Maha um has grown up.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and the sponsor list is indicative of that.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: So the I'm being kind of nice.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: The article said like Maha has grown up, so should its supporters.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of complaining that, you know, oh, it's been captured or this or that, you know, realize that part of in order to have lasting power, stay power power, it's saying that you're gonna have to get these companies on board.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: You can't fight big egg, big food, big pharma, and expect you know, to still have a a seat at the table, right?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: You you you're not that powerful.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is um the base of Maha, I believe, uh is is is powerful.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Those individuals are very powerful, they're very passionate.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um like they would uh some of them like these moms whose children have you know been maimed, they will like die on that altar, you know?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: So you have so much passion.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: It would be fantastic if they were the ones leading everything, right?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: And driving it forward.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: But on the other hand, we know that's not how Washington works.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: We a realist knows that you have to make compromises.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Look, look, Joel, this was one of my big takeaways.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's really easy to sit on the sidelines and call things out and complain, right?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's really easy to do that when you're not the one that's paying the price.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: When you're not the one that has to deal with the aftermath.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Kennedy, I th I feel, and I'm even more convinced now, he has been dealt a hand of cards and he has to deal with the cards that are in his hands.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: He I don't think it's what he wants to do.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I think he does see some benefits in AI and these technologies, but I watching him on the stage, you know, I I I saw him again in person.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't think this was his vision for what he wanted to bring to HHS and how he wanted to end the chronic disease.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: I it definitely feels like there's handcuffs on him.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: It definitely feels like some words are were not supposed to be spoken.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, I don't have proof of that.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's just my feeling.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you know, you know, Cena, I um it it's it's interesting that you're going on about this because um because a lot of people a lot of people have never um have never been in a situation where their their their literal words um are where they've been in an active prohibition situation.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and if you've never been in a place so I'll I'll I'll give you I'll give you a story.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm the I'm the story guy, okay?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll give you a story.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was on the uh Martha Stewart show, so my book, Fos Folks This Ain't Normal, had come out.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: It came out what it was, you know, 10, 12 years ago.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Martha Stewart, you know, she'd gone to jail, she was back, and she was, you know, uh a huge name, she still still is a big name, and um, and she had me on her on her um TV show.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was arranged by the publisher of Folks This Ain't Normal.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I arrived at the studio in New York City, and I walk in, and her handler, her lieutenant hands me a sheet of paper with prohibited words.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: So here I am, I'm gonna sit down with this you know lady for half an hour doing an interview, and and I have to, before I go in, I have to memorize these.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: There was about 20, 20 words that I could not say.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now, now I'm gonna push this story a little bit so that our listeners can appreciate what you're saying.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I'm I'm taking your side in this.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because if you haven't been in that spot, so let me be honest, you know, my temperament and my outspokenness, they handed me that sheet.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: My first reaction was, forget it.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm heading back to Virginia.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna treat me like that, be done with it.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's my first little, you know, demon on the shoulder reaction.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then I said, well, well, okay.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I went in and did the interview.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now, um, and and a lot of people heard heard my story, you know, maybe a million people uh who would not have heard it otherwise.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's easy for somebody to say, you shouldn't have done it.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if they're gonna treat you like that, if they're gonna if they're gonna micromanage you like that, just tell them to go take a hike.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and you know what?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's probably a place for that.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh, you know, uh okay, but there's also a place to take the hand you've been dealt and say, what can I what can I do out of this?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and um and and think, you know, when I think about my own life and somebody, you know, uh comes at me with, you know, you should make a change, you know, like you know, in our business or whatever, um it's never easy to make a change from from your routine.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so these folks, um so, so to have to have uh that the level of that swamp uh just it's I can it it's it's suffocating.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's literally suffocating when you're in it.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and um, you know, I've I've touched it enough in my life, not anything of course like um of Kennedy is, but uh I've touched it enough in my life to know it's not it's not always just simple.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's in fact it usually isn't simple.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and you're constantly in this tension between um running and playing, running and playing, and it it's it's not easy.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and so so this this uh this this incremental move um is is is tough.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Where you know, so so I absolutely agree that there's that tension where I draw the line is when I'm asked to say something that is against my conviction.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, so you know, a lot of people don't know that we've been approached by um over the years, I don't know, 12 maybe or more um reality TV shows.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to do to do a polyface reality TV show.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and you know, I'll I listen to the pitch, you know, and then of course I tell them to go get lost.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this one, this, this one, this one guy, he he he actually you know seemed to be an okay Joe.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so we we had a couple conversations and um and got to the point where where I said, okay, come come and we'll do a little because what what they do is they they have the idea, then they come and do a little teaser that then becomes a pitch deck.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Then they go look for investors, then they try to sell it.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you try to you try to sell it to some to some outfit.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so anyway, uh they come and we sat down, they they set up all the film camera, everything.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: We set up downstairs, and he handed me my lines.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa, he handed me my lines, like I was back in high school in you know, in you know, plays, and I've got to memorize my lines, you know, Andy Get Your Gun or Brigadoon or whatever, you know.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta memorize these lines.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: He handed me my lines.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: I handed it back, I said, we're done here.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're done.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Back up and leave.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're done.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: So so there's a there's a line that crosses.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's a line that crosses, but there's also a place where you where you can play.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Not the best situation, but but you play where you are.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just I'm just telling those stories, probably to lighten up the episode a little bit, uh for our listeners.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what you're what you're talking about is heavy, heavy stuff.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, we're talking about, you know, the arguably the the most the most powerful um place on earth, you know, uh Washington DC.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and and so so I'm I'm um I'm I'm slicing I'm slicing RFK slack on them on the the rapidity of the agenda and feeling handcuffed moving forward.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not slicing him slack on endorsing the glyphosate executive order that said if we don't use glyphosate, we're all gonna die.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was a major, major mistake in the Maha movement.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what happened, Cena?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: I just had this thought.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: So is that that I'm gonna call it a lapse of judgment, okay?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and look, I've had lapses of judgment.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying Kennedy's worse or better than I am, okay?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm uh we've all had lapses of judgment.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: But that lapse of judgment, you can't imagine the leverage that that gives these big companies.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: And what that one lapse suddenly, whoa, we've got a we've got a wedge.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: And boy, they get they get in there, uh, which is which is why which is why you can play, but you cannot, you cannot go against your your your your your conviction.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: You just you just you just can't.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um and and so um I've talked enough, but but you you yeah uh but so I I I agree.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely understand it, but I also have a have a boundary on where where you you do pick up your ball and you go home and you say, no, this is this is rigged and I'm not playing this.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I'm saying, I I can see both sides of the argument, and I I think it's highly individualized.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, Kennedy knows where his line is, so only he can make that distinction.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: I will tell you, um, from my own perspective of seeing him in person, you know, again, I shook his hand.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, watching him, I watched him on the sideline of the stage, I watched him on the stage.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: If you are somebody who has been just, let's say you've been totally captured and bought out, and you're like, you know what, you're you're like, I'm in it for the money now, and so I'm fine with everything that's happening in this movement and whatnot, like, right?
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna toe the line.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you are that person, you are not gonna look the way that Kennedy looked, in my opinion.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: He to me looked worn down.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: He looked beat down.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: He looked, I described, I was actually messaging my husband during this time to I kind of bookmark things.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: I send him text messages sometimes when I'm out and about to bookmark ideas and thoughts that I have.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I sent him the this, I said, he looks like a hollow shell to me.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: He looks worn down.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: It reminded me of when we would have, for example, elected officials, like you know, in our district, we would elect them to go to like Congress or whatnot.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like spring chickens, like, ooh, I'm gonna make change.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then you'd hear see them come back for like a town hall, and they looked just drained and desheveled.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the um very well-known uh representatives that we had told me, it doesn't matter what you do, it's not gonna make a difference.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: They're all the same, like totally beat down.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Kennedy reminded me of that when I saw him.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the hand was shaking a lot.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, stress-induced.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt a lot of compassion because I've seen behind the scenes of, you know, in the political movement and what happens.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: I have experience with this.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: You and I know this system as well as we can know without being, you know, in it ourselves.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we know it beats people down.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we we can we've talked about what he's up against.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I did not walk away feeling betrayed.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I walked away feeling like Kennedy has done what he can do with the limitations, the shackles, if you want to say, that have been placed upon him.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: He is one man fighting in this system, and there are still people in the bureaucracy that are fighting against.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Against him.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: He can only do so much.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know who needs to step up?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: The people.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: Us the people.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: We need to step up and start demanding it ourselves with our food choices, for example, moving the market ourselves.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's how we as individuals can help Kennedy right now, today, with your next food purchase that you make, support him in his mission.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Also, the states can step up.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a piece of good news.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: They are.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: They are stepping up.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we just had, for example, the Florida Attorney General filed a lawsuit against Pfizer for deceptive marketing.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: He said, and I quote, my office will hold them accountable.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: They knew the COVID jab was dangerous, but they hid it from us.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Texas and Kansas have also filed state-level lawsuits.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: So they're doing that.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, we talked about what's happening with the Amish in Pennsylvania and how Governor Josh Shapiro came up with this like administration rules that he came up with, and they were gonna reignite like the pandemic um era uh like restrictions on people and just be really awful.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know what?
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: The people rose up.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Including your your kids unable to go to school and all that stuff.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: The worst we've seen.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the people of Pennsylvania rose up.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: They um they got over 10,000 comments.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: This was a historical amount of comments opposing the change.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: Nearly all members of the Republican caucus in the Pennsylvania Senate and House, they submitted letters opposing the proposed regulation, saying it would infringe on the constitutional rights.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: They won.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: Shapiro rescinded that Pennsylvania disease tracking proposal.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: This was a state-level movement.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: So the people spoke up, the legislators spoke up.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's happening.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, there's a Republican government candidate that's in Iowa.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's running, so he's running for governor of Iowa.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: He's on tape saying you should not need a medical intervention to participate in society.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: That idea is wrong.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: He said we learned that the medical establishment didn't deserve the trust that we gave it.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: He's running on that platform.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: So this listen listen, Cena.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not only is he running, so he's been here at our farm, he came here last year just to strategize about he was getting ready to run, and he was trying to get ammo to decide what to do.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: I spent a day with him.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: He and his uh like 12-year-old son came.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and and and actually his campaign called me about three weeks ago asking me if I could come up for a rally.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't heard back from him.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's gonna happen or not.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: We're kind of running out of time.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: But but listen, listen, um, they sent me the Iowa Republican platform.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the the Republican platform for 2026 for this election.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um in uh here it is, here it is.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: I got it right here, right here in my this is so so this is it right here, okay.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is the the Republican platform under commerce number 17.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: You ready for this?
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm ready.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: We declare that small businesses, including family farms and other cottage industries, have the right to produce and sell foods and other goods to customers through private transactions, whether raw goods or value-added products, free from government regulation, interference, or penalization at any level or in any capacity, also known as food emancipation proclamation.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: Can you believe it?
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: Can you believe it?
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's happening.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it is.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: This thing's um I've I've just been in touch with a lady from Missouri.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: She she's putting in a basically a food emancipation thing in Missouri.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's one in uh I think Arkansas.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um it this stuff, and of course, my book, my book just came out two weeks ago a week ago, uh, food emancipation, uh Unshackling America's sustenance.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: I sent three copies to Callie Means.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: He's given them out.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's yeah, there is there is regardless of up who's on uh up who is up on that stage, there is an awareness and an energy at the grassroots level in this country that I'm not gonna take it anymore.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna take it anymore.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and and uh and these guys with these big companies with big pockets, they can try to co-opt, they can try to buy it out, they can try to whatever they want to do, but um, but uh there is there is enough uh democratized information with everything from Children's Health Defense Fund to Zen Honeycut, uh to you know, these uh I mean people like us, um uh, you know, Matt Matt Tibby.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there are there are these things going on that are that are fueling a true uh a true kind of a revival, a revival at the grassroots level in in America's countryside.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it is it is fun to see.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we just got contacted by a a startup um a startup marketing outfit that wants to um do door-to-door, do-to-door uh sales, and they're wanting us to be involved with them, you know, with our our uh products.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um they haven't even gone public and they've already got 6,300 people on a waiting list.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: Wow to to buy to buy good food to be direct from uh farmers.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I I I just think we're we're really on the cusp of something here, and um and and what we need is for the government to just get out of the way.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one the the the biggest the biggest uh um uh weakness I I think I'd be glad to hear your thoughts on it.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um the biggest weakness I've seen in the Maha um whatever hierarchy is that almost everybody at the high at you know at the in the inside of of the Maha movement is a is a recovering liberal.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: They no, I mean they they they they they at COVID they realized the emperor has no clothes, and for the first time in their life, I mean Del Bigtree is a perfect example.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh um, you know, John Clark, our friend.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I mean, just go down the line, okay?
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Most of these folks did not come from a libertarian background.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're talking about informed consent, they're talking about things that libertarians have talked about for a long time and conservatives, um, but it but it took it basically took COVID to actually uh and and and of course, you know, other things to actually uh move them to this place.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: My my point is that um we we've already we've already questioned whether people have DNA or not, so I'm I so now I can use it freely.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um there once you once you have have drunk that Kool-Aid of we can't we can't actually make big cultural changes unless the government is involved, it's very hard, even when you mistrust the government that you've had before, and all the agencies and all the bureaucrats, to then abandon it and say, you know, we really don't even need the agency.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I'm bold enough to say, I don't even think we need an HHS.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, just get the government out of the out of the whole system and let the homeopaths fight it out and the and the herbalists fight it out, and the pharmacists fight it out, and and just the government let the government out of the whole medical business.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in other words, it it's not it's not enough to say, well, if we just had good bureaucrats, it'd be okay.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh because we you know we just we just don't.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so the weakness that the Maha is, um, and I think I've said this before, that uh they look at it, well, we've been putting this money in these, in these, in the wrong buckets all this time.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we need to stop putting money in those buckets and put money in these buckets, you know, a billion dollars to help farmers transition to, you know, to to uh precision agriculture.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um well I'm saying we don't even need a bucket, but that that is so far out of the out of the the realm of practicality for a lot of these, you know, post-liberals um in you know at the my at the Maha.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: And these are my friends.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not trying to be difficult.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying how hard it is to get that DNA out of your system.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you've become disenfranchised with the system, but you have but you have grown up steeped in in the government system's uh uh cure for whatever ails us, what you're constantly harping on is we need better governance instead of actually we don't need any governance at all.
• 54:00
  unknown: Yeah.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not I'm not an anarchist, okay?
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: We we do need some governance, uh uh, but but in in in those spheres, Department of Energy, Department of Health, Department of Education, you know, HHS, uh, you know, we we actually we actually don't don't really need that kind of um over we don't need that oversight, thank you very much.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: The states can do everything they they need to within that realm.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm so glad that you went down that path because it finally clicked for me hearing you say that again, because I I was I kept thinking, why is it that you and I aren't like overwhelmingly disappointed with Kennedy and the lack of you know fulfilling these promises?
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like why is it that you and I never expected him to fulfill those promises?
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not uh really disappointed, but others are, and you just hit it on the head that I think it's because we come from this different philosophy that a lot of the the Maha base feel that government is inherently good.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to get the right people in there.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: We are feeling that government is inherently, for lack of a better word, bad, that it has to be watched, that it can't be trusted, it's easily corrupted.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's backdoor deals and greed and whatever, and power corrupts.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we inherently would not expect even a good person being put in that position of HHS secretary to make meaningful change because the whole system's corrupt.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's inherently bad, and you're one person against this whole system.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas they thought, oh, it's inherently good as long as you have a good person.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: Put a good person in there, and they're gonna be able to turn the bureaucracy good.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I yeah, I saw this when uh when Obama got elected, and Michelle, um, and Michelle put that garden on the uh, you know, the White House uh garden.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um we actually uh Teresa and I actually got invited up.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they brought in this wonderful, I can't remember the guy's name, this wonderful chef, and he invited us up to dinner.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so we went up to DC to have dinner with the president, you know, with Obama's chef.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh we weren't in the White House, we were at a at a nearby uh house with with another another couple.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and at that, I can tell you, at that time, people in the organic food movement, my friends, they were just euphoric.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow, this is you know how much is gonna change, rah-rah, rah, rah, rah, you know, and all this stuff.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and then somebody did the math and said, um, well, realize that there are a little more than 10 miles.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if if if you took office cubicles and you lined them up, all right, side to side, um, just in DC alone, he said, there are 10 miles of offices that aren't going to change.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I've never forgotten that, you know, that that that and and and that's what that's what um CDC, HHS, I mean, um they they don't go in and and fire, you know, 10,000 employees.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: They that the and those employees still have the relationships, the friendships, the football games they go to, the stuff that they're doing, um that they've cultivated over years with these big big donors that you know do wine and cheese dinners and and uh and and you know shake their hands and give them free country club uh memberships, whatever.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um and and and all of those that that's a lot of emotional relational equity that's taken years to to create, and you don't you don't uh undo it in a day.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean yeah, absolutely.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I think that Kennedy can only push back on certain things, right?
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because he's not the top dog.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like Trump, in essence, is the top dog, right?
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: He's the boss.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so if if Trump wants in and is championing, for example, AI and data centers, um, Kennedy's not gonna be able to stop that uh from happening, you know.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like that old saying, you have to choose your battles.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: The AI is already here in the health health space, as I've laid out for you.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not going anywhere.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's not gonna be able to get that removed.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's gonna have to make the best of it and choose the battles that he wants to fight.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like I mean, he said from the stage that he's not going anywhere.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: So if he's choosing to be in that position, he will have to make compromises.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sorry, but that's how the system works.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: And only he can choose those compromises that he's gonna make.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: Let me ask you a question.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're we're really out of time, but uh this just uh a burning question popped into my head here.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: With AI, let's just let's just zero in on AI.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is is AI uh is there a way to have AI also catalog and whatever database, everything alternative.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so so so my there will be where I'm going is um help me to understand there there there will be, or at least can be, but hopefully will be, a parallel universe over here.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: There will be a basically an AI, a conventional AI, and there will also be an unconventional AI.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, and it already exists.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: So Sayer G and Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, have already gotten together.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: And say, you know, we had Mike Adams on the show, and he was talking about how he had an AI platform he was building.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: That one to me, it didn't work very well.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't very user-friendly.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like getting on ChatGPT or Gemini.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: So he actually has more recently partnered with Sayer G.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Sayer G has like the largest database of alternative um, you know, studies, abstracts, and whatnot.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: He has, it's my understanding that Sayer gave Mike Adams his database so that they have created this AI platform together.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you can actually go on, I know GreenMed Info's website and access to a certain extent that database now.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: They're still building it out and whatnot, but yes, it absolutely does exist.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, like you're saying, it will be this parallel kind of system or you know, society that's created.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's how the market works.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's this other market that's happened.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: We don't like that one.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: So now people came up with an alternative market.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: So what we can do is support that alternative market, you know.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: Just like you support alternative food and alternative education and alternative uh uh, you know, alternative investment.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, the whole the whole uh uh ball of wax is it's wonderful.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: Anything else, anything else from the summit that we've that we've not that's important that we haven't mentioned, that you haven't mentioned.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've saved the best for last, at least for me.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um the my favorite panel at the summit was the panel of athletes.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: They were fantastic.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: There were three athletes there.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, there was Mike Tyson, who was there, there was Michael Chandler, who was a three times mixed martial arts champion, and there was um Noah Sindergaard, who was a former um Major League Baseball All-Star pitcher.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: And our listeners probably don't know this, but as you know, Joel, like athletes are near and dear to my heart.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't athlete for a very long time.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I love their mentality and their perspective, right?
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_01: They have that grit.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: They can push through things um and have a lot of dedication.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: So one thing that really stood out to me was when the, for example, you know, AI um advocates were on the stage, I heard at least twice that like something to the effect of aging is the root cause of disease.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: And like that um aging is the number one risk factor for disease.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: The target was aging.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: It rubbed me wrong uh immediately, as soon as I heard that.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: This that is this fear-based model where it's almost preying on people aging, that you're gonna get sick, you're at risk for it, right?
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: This is the no SIBO effect.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_01: You think you're gonna get sick, you're gonna get sick.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like people saying that aging is the root cause of disease or the number one risk factor.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if this is this was intentional from Michael Chandler, the mixed martial arts champion, or if it was a coincidence, okay?
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: But what he said on stage, he was phenomenal, by the way.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'd never heard of him before.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: Phenomenal speaker.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: He said, We don't get old.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that was a direct counter to this aging as the root cause of disease.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_01: He said, We don't get old, we get lazy and busy.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, he's now 40.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: He was like 22 when he, you know, uh was like at this peak in um in his sport.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, so I train exactly the way I did at 22.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_01: So he he has a strong grasp on uh the power of perception, you know, to to basically sculpt your reality of your biology.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: He does he's not accepting uh age as an excuse, right?
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: As this scapegoat or as this fear base tactic.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's saying, we don't actually get old, people get lazy and busy, I'm training the exact same way.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_01: And he looks phenomenal.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I thought that was a pivotal moment.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, it's a pivotal moment of protest, but again, I don't know if he meant it that way, but it was phenomenal.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um Mike Tyson said, and the other two athletes agree.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: He said when talking about like discipline and what separates a champion from a contender, he said, you have to do what you hate to do with a smile on your face.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's about what you do when you get disappointed.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_01: Do you give up or do you say, let's do it again?
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, he puts faith where failure might be.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: I get goosebumps even now, just reading it to you, because that's a fighter.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like to me that those athletes were the highlight of that summit because whether or not you were angry or felt betrayed or felt like Maha was corrupt, those athletes were modeling the perception, and I feel like that inner fire.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_01: That anybody who wants to make a change in the food ag health space needs to have.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't talking about it.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't saying bad things like we've been lied to or anything like that.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: They were saying positive.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they were saying you basically have to suck it up, do the hard thing if you want to be a champion.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean wow.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's really good.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was very beautiful.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I will tell you, they are the panel that unapologetically talked about natural things that they do.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_01: They talked about fasting, cold plunges, red light therapy, hyperbolic chambers, and eating real food.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_01: They talked about um, you know, staying active and doing electrolytes, and they said that people are craving real human connection.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_01: This was another moment when I thought Michael was speaking, you know, maybe a little bit out against the AI atmosphere.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_01: He said that we are craving real human connection as evidenced by a 400% increase in running clubs.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're not getting on our pelotons or our treadmills in our isolated rooms with having AI, you know, tell us things.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're actually getting together and forming 400% more increase in running clubs.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought they were phenomenal.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_01: I thought they I thought that they represented what I would call those foundational beliefs that Maha was founded upon.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_01: They were definitely a beacon of truth, authenticity, and hope.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's that's a beautiful way to end part two of the 2026 Maha Summit.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Cena, I'm so glad you were there and have uh brought us up to speed on on what was said, uh, some of the things that were not said, and um, and the the whole the whole tenor and the spirit of the uh of the summit.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I'm thinking about a question to leave our our um reader or listeners with, and I'm thinking about this whole um this whole uh faith, you know, um faith in a in a government agency.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, do you think is it is it is it simply too whatever far out there?
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've I mean good grief, we've questioned DNA, we've questioned viruses.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is it any farther out to question do we actually need a Department of Health and Human Services?
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: As a as a as a culture, as a as a nation.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh are you talking about on the federal level or federal and state level?
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the feder federal level.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_00: State, state, you know, you you can you can deal with state.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_00: State's, you know, um pretty much I'm yeah, I'm I'm uh I'm okay with almost anything that a state wants to do.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but the but the federal level, what it does is it makes a cookie cutter thing, it makes one one size fit all.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and and and it becomes so big and so um massive that it that it it's just too big a thing to bring down.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_00: But at the state level, man, you you can get you can get a a group of people together and and make a difference at the state.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_00: States are if if you've ever lobbied at the state or federal level, there's there's no comparison to difference.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's no comparison to difference.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_00: You can walk into state general assembly office, talk to your delegate, talk to your uh senator, you know, you can you can do that, but you you can't do that at the federal level.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a totally different ball game.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so I would I would ask um our people to respond, you know, do you think we actually need a uh a government uh position uh or policy on uh on healthcare?
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And or or is that just um should we just uh do it on our do it on our own or at you know at state levels?
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thanks for taking the time to invest in us with another um Beyond Labels podcast.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_00: We appreciate you being with us.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And uh if you like this kind of material, please share it with friends and um help us to get more word out there and more of this kind of uh good background and basic information of what's going on and what we can do to participate out in our culture.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being with us.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_00: We look forward to visiting with you again next week.