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Andy Stanley - Why Great Leaders Stop Trying to Do It All · Andy Stanley Sermons

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Andy Stanley leadership podcast Reverb, a conversation
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Speaker 1: designed to help leaders go even further faster By digging
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Speaker 1: deeper into this month's episode, I'm your host Susie Gray.
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Speaker 1: Last week, Andy was joined by his executive assistant of
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Speaker 1: nearly thirty years, Diane Grant, for a conversation about their
0:21
Speaker 1: partnership and how that relationship can become a genuine leadership advantage.
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Speaker 2: Today.
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Speaker 1: We want to explore the changes Andy had to make
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Speaker 1: as a leader for them to get that high functioning
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Speaker 1: relationship they have today. So Andy, let's start with how
0:36
Speaker 1: you're wired. We talked a little bit about this with Diane.
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Speaker 1: You're an Enneagram one, so is she. And letting go
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Speaker 1: of control, especially over personal things like your calendar and email,
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Speaker 1: probably didn't come naturally. What was that process like for you?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, we talked a little bit about that, but I'm
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Speaker 3: glad we're coming back to that, because the control issue
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Speaker 3: really is a thing, and my desire to control certain
0:59
Speaker 3: things became an.
1:00
Speaker 2: Obstacle for her to be able to do her job.
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Speaker 3: And you've experienced that with me as well, and so
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Speaker 3: that's a big deal, and I think that's worth reiterating
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Speaker 3: because oftentimes leaders have not control issues.
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Speaker 2: But we are accustomed to being in control.
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Speaker 3: And I don't like feeling pressured to make a decision
1:18
Speaker 3: when I don't want to make the decision. I don't
1:19
Speaker 3: want to feel pressure to make a decision based on
1:22
Speaker 3: somebody else's schedule, not my own. And there is a
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Speaker 3: time and a place to slow down the decision making process.
1:28
Speaker 3: But I had to learn, Okay, for super important things, maybe,
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Speaker 3: but for most of the day to day things, or
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Speaker 3: even the week to week things, Andy, just make a decision.
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Speaker 3: And if I'm not ready to make the decision and
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Speaker 3: it's not a big decision, just say, Susie, you decide.
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Speaker 3: In fact, you've gotten emails for me that just said
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Speaker 3: you decide, and Diane has received email from me that
1:48
Speaker 3: just says you decide.
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Speaker 2: Or I'll just look at her and say.
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Speaker 3: You know what, you're more aware of and more acquainted
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Speaker 3: with the details of this, I trust you, you decide,
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Speaker 3: and again setting her free, You're setting you free to
2:01
Speaker 3: move ahead because of you. You're both very progress oriented,
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Speaker 3: and that's that's the kind of people we want around us.
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Speaker 2: So I've just had to learn it is kind of
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Speaker 2: a control thing.
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Speaker 3: But I don't have to make every decision, and the
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Speaker 3: decision can be I'm not going.
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Speaker 2: To decide, you decide that that's that's the decision.
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Speaker 3: And you know, you know, everybody moves forward, and if
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Speaker 3: you're surrounded by trustworthy people, you know, the right decisions are.
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Speaker 2: Going to be made right.
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Speaker 1: And I loved, you know, talking about decisions. I loved
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Speaker 1: the thing that Diane said last episode about she decided
2:35
Speaker 1: to be patient and she decided to wait. You know,
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Speaker 1: this applies everywhere, I mean even to my kids. Like,
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Speaker 1: the only thing that you have a choice about is
2:43
Speaker 1: your reaction.
2:45
Speaker 2: Our response. Yeah, how you.
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Speaker 1: React to something that you can't control is the only
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Speaker 1: thing that you do have agency over. And I loved
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Speaker 1: when Diane was saying in those moments, she chose by
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Speaker 1: conscious decision to be patient and to probably gear down
3:03
Speaker 1: a little bit. And I think the more that she
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Speaker 1: did that, probably the more that you were like, hey,
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Speaker 1: she's ready, but she's gonna have the appropriate posture.
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Speaker 3: And regardless, she also pushes back when hey, they really
3:14
Speaker 3: need to know it's a big deal. Yeah, you know,
3:16
Speaker 3: there are deadlines and then there are dead deadlines. You know,
3:19
Speaker 3: there's we've got to know and again our relationship again
3:23
Speaker 3: almost thirty years.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great.
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Speaker 3: So I would say to the leader who's listening, don't
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Speaker 3: let your ego become a factor with your admin assistant
3:32
Speaker 3: or your executive assistant. You know, you have the position,
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Speaker 3: you're in charge. Don't be threatened by that. Again, it's
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Speaker 3: emotional intelligence. It's like, Okay, I know what's going on
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Speaker 3: inside of me. This is an andy thing, you got
3:44
Speaker 3: your feelings her, this is a pride thing, or you
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Speaker 3: feel pressured, just you know, set that aside and just
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Speaker 3: put the organization first and just you know, make the decision.
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Speaker 3: Deal with your emotions and your ego later.
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Speaker 2: And we all have that.
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Speaker 3: I think that's part of the reason this works. And
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Speaker 3: I think this is worth repeating. Diane would quit rather
4:05
Speaker 3: than either being mistreated or if I just continue to
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Speaker 3: make bad decisions or decided, you know, I'm going to
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Speaker 3: leverage the organization for my own benefit.
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Speaker 2: I mean, any of those kind of wobbly things.
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Speaker 1: Yes, she would not put up with that, and you
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Speaker 1: and you wouldn't even.
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Speaker 3: Again, these are these are you know, important guardrails for
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Speaker 3: organizational leaders.
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Speaker 1: So well, so what criteria do you use to decide
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Speaker 1: when something should stay with you and when you can
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Speaker 1: just go, you know what, I'm going to let that go.
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Speaker 1: Like what is that internal filter for you?
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Speaker 2: Is it scope?
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Speaker 1: Is it importance?
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Speaker 2: Like where do you how do you make that decision?
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Speaker 3: A big part of it for me is to what
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Speaker 3: degree does this decision reflect on me personally or the
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Speaker 3: organization overall? And if it's going to reflect on me personally,
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Speaker 3: those are the things that I tend to hold a
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Speaker 3: little bit closer. She's not just representing the organization, she's
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Speaker 3: representing me as a person.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: But for example, people from the outside of the organization
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Speaker 3: will email with theological questions or hey, you said in
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Speaker 3: this message this and I don't think you know, and
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Speaker 3: so she is willing to address even that level of
5:14
Speaker 3: email in a general sense. But sometimes those kinds of
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Speaker 3: questions I feel like, Okay, this is they're asking me
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Speaker 3: what I think, not what does our organization do or
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Speaker 3: what does our organization think you personally?
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Speaker 2: Me personally?
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Speaker 3: And usually those are not time sensitive questions. That's a hey,
5:32
Speaker 3: let me handle that. But here's what she'll do. You know,
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Speaker 3: the next time we get together, she'll say that email
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Speaker 3: from ron so and so, from so and so did
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Speaker 3: you respond to him. I'm like no, no, and then
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Speaker 3: she says, would you like for me to respond? And
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Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, you know, I've been sitting on in
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Speaker 3: a week. I you know, I intended to do this.
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Speaker 3: So she's great about letting me have it, and she's
5:57
Speaker 3: great about circling back around to say did you find
6:00
Speaker 3: follow up? Because again, sometimes she'll say, do you want
6:03
Speaker 3: me to call this person?
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Speaker 2: No, I'll call them and then she'll send me.
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Speaker 3: She'll you know, text me immediately, here's the name, here's
6:08
Speaker 3: the question, or here's the issue, here's their concern, here's
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Speaker 3: their cell number, and then I'll leave go home with it.
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Speaker 2: Two or three days later, she'll ask about it.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, because she feels responsible for how we are interfacing,
6:22
Speaker 3: not just with people even in our church, but all
6:24
Speaker 3: over the place. So she's great about it. She lets
6:27
Speaker 3: me have it, and then she follows up, which I need.
6:29
Speaker 3: And sometimes I'll say, oh, you know what, let me
6:31
Speaker 3: do that right now, and I'll just stand up going
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Speaker 3: to the office to make the call. Come back, you know,
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Speaker 3: fifteen minutes later it's done, which done, We pick up
6:38
Speaker 3: and we move forward. So that that kind of accountability,
6:41
Speaker 3: you know, for some leaders. That's going to get on
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Speaker 3: their nerves, and that's just an ego thing, that's just
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Speaker 3: a pride thing. Yeah you forgot, Yeah you procrastinated. They're
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Speaker 3: not bugging you, they're reminding you because they care.
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Speaker 2: So those those are just internal things.
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Speaker 3: You know, somebody in my position has to work and
6:58
Speaker 3: that's different for different people.
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Speaker 1: So definitely, So how do you think your partnership with
7:02
Speaker 1: Dianne has changed the quality of your decisions when you're
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Speaker 1: tired or stressed or under pressure.
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Speaker 2: Here's what I've learned to do, and again, slow to this.
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Speaker 3: We have a scheduled time, you know that we sit
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Speaker 3: down and go through the mail and the calendar and
7:18
Speaker 3: all that sort of thing. That is not the time
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Speaker 3: for me to process with her about either personal things
7:26
Speaker 3: things I'm just thinking about with the organization. So what
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Speaker 3: I've had to discipline myself to do is during the week,
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Speaker 3: when there's fifteen minutes between appointments or I finished something
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Speaker 3: and there's nothing on the calendar, to just sit down
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Speaker 3: in her office and just talk, see here's some stuff
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Speaker 3: I'm thinking about. Because one thing I'm really bad at
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Speaker 3: is I don't keep her up to date with my
7:52
Speaker 3: thinking on things.
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Speaker 2: From time to time.
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Speaker 3: So here she is doing the job, you know, moving
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Speaker 3: things forward, and then I've been thinking about something, or
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Speaker 3: maybe I've had a discussion with somebody else and I
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Speaker 3: just haven't updated her on what I'm thinking about.
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Speaker 2: I've learned that is so important.
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Speaker 3: And when I do that and I engage her in
8:11
Speaker 3: those conversations, she is so helpful in helping me just
8:15
Speaker 3: think through things that are super organizationally related or maybe
8:20
Speaker 3: somewhat organizationally related.
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Speaker 2: She's so wise. Yeah, but if I.
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Speaker 3: Don't, the thing is, she's not gonna make an appointment
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Speaker 3: for us to just.
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Speaker 2: Chat right now, and I'm not either.
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Speaker 3: But you know, instead of just walking through the office
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Speaker 3: to go wander around or go drive to Starbucks, because
8:38
Speaker 3: I I've got space, to use that time to just
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Speaker 3: sit down, interrupt whatever she's doing, and just bring that
8:45
Speaker 3: element into the conversation. It is so helpful and it
8:49
Speaker 3: is so important. But that's on me because you know,
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Speaker 3: she's not going to schedule. Let's let's catch up. How
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Speaker 3: are you doing? Yeah?
8:57
Speaker 2: Are things with the kids?
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Speaker 3: You know?
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Speaker 2: I'm just chatting. Yeah, let's just again, because I.
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Speaker 3: Trust her, and I think having that level of trust
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Speaker 3: with an admin assistant or executive assistant is important. And
9:07
Speaker 3: the other thing we didn't talk about in the podcast
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Speaker 3: that is so helpful. She has eyes and ears on
9:16
Speaker 3: staff at a level that I don't. And because she
9:19
Speaker 3: meets with the other admin assistants and the other executive assistants,
9:23
Speaker 3: she often knows things that are going on relationally or
9:27
Speaker 3: personally with the staff that it's not ever going to
9:30
Speaker 3: get to me unless she brings it to me. She
9:33
Speaker 3: helps me be a better pastor and just a better
9:37
Speaker 3: person relationally with staff. I mean, whether it's something going
9:42
Speaker 3: on with somebody's child, a marriage, if it's appropriate to
9:45
Speaker 3: talk about somebody that you know, there's there's kind of
9:49
Speaker 3: some drama down in this department or division.
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Speaker 2: I just want you to be aware of it.
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Speaker 3: There's nothing you need to do about it, but you
9:55
Speaker 3: should just be aware.
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Speaker 2: So because of.
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Speaker 3: Her eyes and ears on the organization and in the organization, again,
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Speaker 3: that is so helpful.
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Speaker 2: And it's not gossip.
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Speaker 3: It's the stuff that I'm ultimately responsible for that I
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Speaker 3: don't know anything about if it doesn't somehow filter up
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Speaker 3: to me, And so she's great about that. And then
10:16
Speaker 3: the other thing too, And for the pastors who are
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Speaker 3: listening and maybe there's application in the marketplace as well.
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Speaker 2: On Sundays, I am so focused.
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Speaker 3: On what I'm doing, whether getting ready for the welcome
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Speaker 3: or the message. And Diane through the years has been
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Speaker 3: great about wandering around the building and catching people doing
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Speaker 3: great things and coming back on a Monday or Tuesday
10:42
Speaker 3: and say, hey, I went over to Transit, I went
10:44
Speaker 3: over to Upstreet, I walked through, you know, and they
10:47
Speaker 3: did a fabulous job. You weren't able to go out
10:49
Speaker 3: in the lobby and see, but you need to talk
10:51
Speaker 3: to this group, the team that put that together. So
10:54
Speaker 3: she helps me be grateful for things I don't know to.
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Speaker 2: Be grateful for that.
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Speaker 3: If if I did know about them, I would be grateful,
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Speaker 3: you know, I would immediately call or text or say hey,
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Speaker 3: that was amazing, good job.
11:07
Speaker 2: But now I can say, hey, Diane.
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Speaker 3: Was walking through and saw and she said you did
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Speaker 3: a great job, you know with that presentation. Hey, thank
11:15
Speaker 3: you so being my eyes and ears in those environments
11:19
Speaker 3: that I don't have time to visit, you know, for
11:23
Speaker 3: her to compliment it, and for the staff to know
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Speaker 3: that she complimented it, and it got to me, that's
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Speaker 3: just that's just good symbolic leadership, so using and again
11:35
Speaker 3: this is one reason I've told her on Sundays, I
11:37
Speaker 3: don't you don't need to follow me around. I'm good,
11:39
Speaker 3: I got you know, I know what to do. You know,
11:41
Speaker 3: I've got other folks helping me. So on Sundays, just
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Speaker 3: use that time to again be the eyes and ears
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Speaker 3: with what's happening around around the building, within the different environments.
11:53
Speaker 3: And again in a corporate environment, there may be a
11:56
Speaker 3: different application of that, but her, her compliments a lot,
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Speaker 3: her words weigh a lot because of her position in
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Speaker 3: the organization, just like mine do. And again this goes
12:05
Speaker 3: back to what we talked about the importance of realizing
12:09
Speaker 3: that the isolation that the point leader feels in the
12:13
Speaker 3: same way that the admin assistant or the executive assistant
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Speaker 3: is going to feel a little bit of that isolation
12:19
Speaker 3: as well, but it also gives their words weight. She
12:22
Speaker 3: has a lot of influence in the organization.
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Speaker 2: So yeah, I think.
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Speaker 1: There's a direct correlation of that example to the corporate
12:28
Speaker 1: world because you know, whether it's the CEO or division
12:31
Speaker 1: leader or whatever it is, you know, usually doesn't know
12:34
Speaker 1: what's happening three, four or five layers down, right, but
12:37
Speaker 1: if they have you know, a partner, an executive assistant
12:40
Speaker 1: that can you know, whether either systematically gather information or
12:45
Speaker 1: you know, if it appropriate in the context walk the floor. Yep,
12:48
Speaker 1: there's an opportunity to elevate things that might otherwise been elevated.
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Speaker 1: So I think that's really great.
12:52
Speaker 2: And one more thing on that, And she is so
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Speaker 2: aware of this.
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Speaker 3: It's so important that people don't feel like she's spying.
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Speaker 3: And this is why anytime I can give positive feedback
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Speaker 3: to an individual or a team based on what she's observed,
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Speaker 3: they'll realize, Oh, she wasn't spying, she was appreciated.
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Speaker 1: She's looking for something to celebrate.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, she's just walking around and looking.
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Speaker 3: So keeping keeping that feedback, you know, positive publicly and
13:23
Speaker 3: then if there's something that needs to be addressed privately individually.
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Speaker 3: But those things are pretty.
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Speaker 2: Rare, you know.
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Speaker 3: Hr you know keeps me apprized of those things. So
13:33
Speaker 3: this is more relational.
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Speaker 1: So right, well, obviously those are all the good times.
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Speaker 1: But I'm sure there's been times that things didn't go
13:41
Speaker 1: well and you had to learn something about you in
13:44
Speaker 1: the process. What what is an example of something that
13:47
Speaker 1: you know, maybe you didn't it didn't go the way
13:50
Speaker 1: you expected. You handed Diane something and it didn't go
13:52
Speaker 1: the way you expected, or she did something you didn't
13:54
Speaker 1: wanted to do. What did you learn in that process?
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Speaker 2: Well, her tendency, which I like, this is a good thing,
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Speaker 2: is to.
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Speaker 3: Be more proactive rather than less proactive.
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Speaker 2: Definitely that's an advantage.
14:06
Speaker 3: But obviously there are times and I can't think of
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Speaker 3: an example, honestly, it's so they're so few and far between,
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Speaker 3: but every once in a while she would kind of
14:14
Speaker 3: get out ahead of not ahead of her skis, but thinking, Okay,
14:18
Speaker 3: this is something that needs to be done. I don't
14:20
Speaker 3: know when I'm going to be able to talk to
14:22
Speaker 3: Andy about it, so I'm just going to act, and
14:25
Speaker 3: you know, instead of getting permission.
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Speaker 2: Maybe I'll have to get forgiveness.
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Speaker 3: And nine times out of ten I'm like thank exactly,
14:31
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, Diane, I totally forgot you know, I
14:35
Speaker 3: didn't even think about that.
14:36
Speaker 2: It will. Don't worry. I took care of it. I mean,
14:38
Speaker 2: I would much rather have that.
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Speaker 3: So the only I don't know conflict may be too
14:43
Speaker 3: strong of a term is when that propensity, which I
14:47
Speaker 3: appreciate so much, I don't want to say, goes too far.
14:51
Speaker 3: But again, if there's a gap, she's going to fill it.
14:53
Speaker 3: If there's a need, she's going to try to date it.
14:55
Speaker 3: But again I can't even think of an example, but
14:58
Speaker 3: that would be the the I guess, the downside of
15:01
Speaker 3: that kind of personality, or somebody who really sees themselves
15:04
Speaker 3: as a partner rather than somebody who's just sitting there
15:06
Speaker 3: waiting to be asked to do something.
15:09
Speaker 1: And that probably those instances probably how do you think,
15:12
Speaker 1: you know, was she waiting for an answer and couldn't
15:14
Speaker 1: wait any longer, or was she, you know, filling a
15:16
Speaker 1: gap that she didn't know how to fill otherwise.
15:18
Speaker 2: Or somebody needed an answer, right, yeah.
15:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it allowed you to kind of go, oh, okay,
15:23
Speaker 1: maybe that's one of those things that we need to
15:24
Speaker 1: talk about in our process or whatever it is. So yeah,
15:27
Speaker 1: that's great, So any as we wrap this episode of Reverb.
15:30
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of leaders out there who think,
15:32
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't need an executive assistant or
15:35
Speaker 1: an admin assistant. I can just handle it.
15:37
Speaker 2: I've got it. I don't need it.
15:39
Speaker 1: I want to manage my own things the way I
15:40
Speaker 1: want to manage my own things. What would you say
15:43
Speaker 1: to that leader or maybe even that version of yourself
15:45
Speaker 1: years ago.
15:46
Speaker 2: Well, I met leaders like that, and part of it
15:49
Speaker 2: I get this.
15:50
Speaker 3: They don't want to have to navigate another relationship, and
15:54
Speaker 3: they don't.
15:54
Speaker 2: Say it like that, but that's kind of it. It's like, well,
15:57
Speaker 2: if I add that.
15:59
Speaker 3: Person, now I have another relationship, and again he or
16:03
Speaker 3: she may be helpful, but it's also a relationship.
16:06
Speaker 2: It's a it's.
16:06
Speaker 3: Another direct report, and a lot of leaders, especially very
16:11
Speaker 3: entrepreneurial leaders, they don't want any direct reports and they
16:14
Speaker 3: operate better that way. So I don't think it's a
16:16
Speaker 3: right or wrong thing. It depends on the nature of
16:19
Speaker 3: the organization, the size of the organization.
16:21
Speaker 2: And the personality of the leader.
16:23
Speaker 3: But generally speaking, and I guess maybe an answer to
16:26
Speaker 3: the question, because it is a good question, is.
16:29
Speaker 2: Then they don't need to die in.
16:31
Speaker 3: They need somebody who's just gonna do this, do this,
16:35
Speaker 3: do this, do this, take take.
16:36
Speaker 2: The task, work through the to do list.
16:39
Speaker 3: It would really perhaps be more like the individual we
16:42
Speaker 3: talked about last time when our business administrator and I
16:45
Speaker 3: shared an admin assistant and she realized I'd rather work
16:48
Speaker 3: for Rick than for any Yeah, you know, and again
16:51
Speaker 3: we I just celebrated her for that decision, but that
16:54
Speaker 3: was more her her lane. Just give me things to do,
16:58
Speaker 3: leave me alone. I'm going to get them done, bring
17:00
Speaker 3: them back check the box. So again, and this is
17:03
Speaker 3: why the beginning of the conversation last time was so
17:05
Speaker 3: important when you asked Diane about the two different types
17:08
Speaker 3: of admin assistance. And so for the person who's just
17:12
Speaker 3: constantly on the road, constantly on the go, they just
17:15
Speaker 3: need somebody they can just hand things off to. And honestly,
17:19
Speaker 3: our sponsor belay, that's one of the extraordinary gifts that
17:24
Speaker 3: they have given to that kind of leader who doesn't
17:26
Speaker 3: want somebody sitting in office. They may not even have
17:29
Speaker 3: an office, but there are things that need to get done,
17:32
Speaker 3: there's information that needs to get to them, and so
17:35
Speaker 3: the automation of all that is an extraordinary gift to
17:39
Speaker 3: that kind of leader. So it really just depends.
17:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is true.
17:42
Speaker 1: I mean one size doesn't fit all, but figuring what
17:44
Speaker 1: you need and getting that support is critical.
17:48
Speaker 2: Yep. And it may change from season to season. So yeah, definitely.
17:51
Speaker 1: Well, Andy, that is all the time that we have today.
17:54
Speaker 1: Thanks as always for diving deeper on this month's topic,
17:57
Speaker 1: and to all of our listeners. Thanks for listening to
17:59
Speaker 1: this episode of Reverb. If you found it helpful, be
18:02
Speaker 1: sure to leave a review or pass it along to
18:04
Speaker 1: another leader, and as always, subscribed wherever you listen, and
18:07
Speaker 1: check out Andy stanley dot com slash podcast for more
18:10
Speaker 1: resources to help you go even further faster