Latest / Expertise Made Real / Breaking the Facade: Real Expertise in High Performers With Jahmaal Marshall

Transcript

Breaking the Facade: Real Expertise in High Performers With Jahmaal Marshall · Expertise Made Real

• 0:01
  What if your real expertise only shows up the moment you stop performing a polished version of yourself?
• 0:09
  Executive coach and podcast host Jamal Marshall is talking on this episode on why so many high performers hide their actual expertise behind a rehearsed representative.
• 0:21
  What gets unlocked the moment someone drops the performance that they're doing.
• 0:25
  And why alignment, not hustle, is what lets real expertise finally show up.
• 0:33
  You're listening to expertise Made real.
• 0:36
  I'm Kristen N.
• 0:37
  Spencer, and this is where your experience finally gets called what it is.
• 0:42
  Expertise.
• 0:44
  Hello and welcome to another episode.
• 0:46
  Today we are joined by the formidable Jamal Marshall.
• 0:52
  Two A's in Jamal, two L's in Marshall, just so y' all know.
• 0:56
  And he is an executive coach, certified counselor, and founder of listen then speak LLC.
• 1:03
  With 17 years, not old at all, of experience in human behavior.
• 1:08
  We're the same age, so I can joke about that.
• 1:10
  Using his signature listen method, he helps clients tackle burnout, codependency and perfectionism at the root, earning him the trust from brands like Nike, Zillow, Amazon, Honda and A E, which is headquartered in Pittsburgh, by the way.
• 1:27
  He is also the host of the Listen and Speak podcast, ranked in the top 1.5% of podcast, where he's interviewed bestselling authors, entrepreneurs and mental health advocates.
• 1:42
  Jamal, welcome to the show.
• 1:44
  How are you doing today?
• 1:45
  I'm doing fabulous.
• 1:46
  I'm all here with you.
• 1:50
  So I thought of Jamal instantly when I was doing this whole like brand new launch of this podcast because he is my friend, my brother, but he is also a podcast expert.
• 2:03
  And what better thing to do during launch than have an expert who understands podcasts be on a podcast about experts.
• 2:15
  There you have it, right?
• 2:17
  We had to do it.
• 2:18
  So let's dive in.
• 2:19
  Jamal, you know, I've told you already, this show is about making expertise real, taking the thing you're already excellent at and turning it into something visible and teachable.
• 2:29
  So let's start with that.
• 2:30
  What is your number one piece of advice for a client on day one?
• 2:36
  Working with you.
• 2:38
  Oh, man, I want to work with you.
• 2:40
  I'm glad you asked that question that way.
• 2:43
  Chris Rock, if anyone, if you, unless you lived under a rock, you've heard that name.
• 2:47
  He is a formidable comedian.
• 2:50
  You know, I put him up there with Dave Chappelle is just one of the greats.
• 2:53
  And he said long ago in a stand up comedy 20 2006, he says for the first six months, for all you married folks or folks who are dating, we date a person's representative.
• 3:02
  And I took that in human behavior in My work not just in podcasting, but one on one and also in workshops.
• 3:07
  And I share with my clients and my prospects, like, hey, we're together for 12 to 14 weeks.
• 3:12
  This is going to be very intense.
• 3:13
  I want to work with you.
• 3:14
  If I work with your representative, I'm going to be getting them measurable results, and they're going to waste time and revenue.
• 3:20
  So, please, I know I have to gain your trust.
• 3:23
  I've gained your trust in that you've already signed this and signed a legal service agreement.
• 3:27
  But in order for you, with the work I do, it's like, you cannot be holding back here.
• 3:31
  Don't suffer in silence.
• 3:32
  And so if you're putting forth your representative, we're going to be getting them results.
• 3:35
  That is my number one piece of advice.
• 3:37
  Like, please, as much as you can, know that I'm here to live in the trenches with you, and I'm going to engender trust.
• 3:43
  But no, you know, no lies.
• 3:46
  No, you know, you don't have to put forth airs when you're working with me because you're actually putting out revenue, and I want to see you get a huge ROI on that.
• 3:56
  So let's talk about that, because I know that you have this, like, thing in the pit of your stomach that wants you to help people, and at the same time, you're a business owner.
• 4:10
  So how do those two things fight each other?
• 4:13
  What does that look like?
• 4:14
  How are you making sure that while you're helping the people who need your help, that you're also helping yourself?
• 4:23
  Great question.
• 4:23
  Again, I think that's something that I had to learn the hard way.
• 4:28
  Being intuitive, being a natural empath, being a caretaker before I even had language for it.
• 4:35
  It's just in me to want to help and to bite off more than I can chew.
• 4:39
  And, you know, this is the age of information, the age of AI, the age of digital products.
• 4:44
  Listen, y', all.
• 4:45
  I had to learn by hitting a wall and developing quite a few autoimmune disorders that you have a limited capacity to as a human being, even though my podcast itself is listened to globally by a lot of people
• 4:57
  who don't carry my faith, even my complexion or my proclivities or whatever like that.
• 5:01
  I'm grateful we have such a large audience who's listening and tuning in.
• 5:04
  I am a Christian, just so people know, and I like to use the life of Christ itself.
• 5:09
  Whether you believe in him or not, whether you believe in the universe, there is a man, Jesus of Nazareth, that did walk the earth.
• 5:15
  And when I think of him, he had 12 disciples, but out of those 12, it was only three that he kept the most contact with, three that saw him transfigured.
• 5:22
  You remove them, you have three other people.
• 5:24
  Mary, Martha and Lazarus.
• 5:26
  Let's throw mommy dearest in there for a good measure.
• 5:28
  And Nicodemus, just throw some salt and pepper on it.
• 5:30
  That's eight people out of thousands that knew him during his earthly ministry.
• 5:34
  And so for me, to answer your question, I'm seeing that I'm of limited capacity and I can only do so much.
• 5:40
  And even in that, some of his best friends.
• 5:42
  When one of his best friends, Lazarus, was dying, his sisters came to him and said, hey, Jesus, our brother is dying.
• 5:46
  He said, I'll get there in a couple of days.
• 5:48
  Can you imagine what it was like hearing that in real time?
• 5:51
  And so for a person like me, that has my leaning and that has my archetype, I have to be willing to be someone's villain and be okay with that, being okay with being misunderstood.
• 6:02
  And I know that's hard for the helpers.
• 6:04
  You want everyone to understand you.
• 6:05
  And when you tell someone no, or wait, you want to back that up with a dissertation, that's when you're.
• 6:10
  No.
• 6:10
  Loses authority.
• 6:11
  And so I've been able to carry authority by practicing boundaries and understanding that my mind will neurologically go through withdrawal when I tell someone no or I cannot do something, allow it to happen, and then regulate mentally while
• 6:25
  it's happening so that you stay on pace and that you actualize your goals well.
• 6:31
  And that's something that.
• 6:32
  So we'll spoil the surprise.
• 6:35
  If you've read my book, you know that I am talking a lot about Tavion, and Tavion is actually based on Jamal, and I have written consent to say that.
• 6:43
  And.
• 6:45
  But my editor was like, every other name is made up except for his.
• 6:48
  This is so weird.
• 6:49
  So I have a made up name for him, but when I'm talking about him and me, because we're so similar, that's why we're brother and sister.
• 6:57
  Is.
• 6:58
  I'm like, no is a full sentence.
• 7:00
  That's something that you've had to learn.
• 7:02
  That's something that I've had to learn.
• 7:03
  And that means that you stop once you say it.
• 7:06
  You don't say more words.
• 7:08
  That's it.
• 7:11
  Solid.
• 7:11
  You're on point.
• 7:11
  There's nothing I can add to that masterpiece.
• 7:13
  Noah's an only word.
• 7:15
  Well, and I was talking with someone else on a show that we recorded yesterday, and I was like, and then another thing.
• 7:21
  I'm having to add for myself because I'm a recovering perfectionist is.
• 7:25
  I don't know is a full sentence.
• 7:29
  I want to add to that.
• 7:30
  And we both know from our history, because we are so similar, the forefather of one of the movements that we were a part of called Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith, whether you agree with everything he said or not, he
• 7:40
  said something that I love and he said, I don't know is one of the most humblest things you can say, you know?
• 7:46
  And if these were his latter older years, he just said, people ask me questions all the time.
• 7:49
  I'm just like, I don't know, I don't know.
• 7:52
  And yeah.
• 7:53
  So Chuck, just for people who are geeking out about Chuck Smith, he dedicated my husband and my son.
• 7:58
  So I knew him personally and my favorite thing about him was his laugh.
• 8:03
  But.
• 8:04
  But it's one of those things where we can learn, we can keep learning, but we don't have to know everything.
• 8:10
  We don't have to be everything to the other person.
• 8:14
  And I think that's something that you work with your clients on a lot.
• 8:18
  Is that correct?
• 8:19
  Oh, oh, my goodness, yes.
• 8:23
  These people who are either senior leaders, C suite leaders, middle managers, and my middle managers.
• 8:29
  I love you guys.
• 8:29
  I know you catch hell from the top and the bottom, or entrepreneurs who are running their business with a small team of five or eight, that's a lot to manage.
• 8:37
  You know, I've worked with leaders from places like Amazon and Nike that have teams of 250.
• 8:42
  And so one of the things I trademark is let's take the NT off management.
• 8:46
  And for these three to six months, let's manage me.
• 8:50
  And that's a framework that actually gets to the root of what they subconsciously believe because that informs how they behave.
• 8:56
  And I love the word play.
• 8:57
  As you know, I'm always gonna geek out on the word things, but that's so interest.
• 9:03
  And I would love, like, I mean, I could ask you a million questions, but I would love to know, like, what are some of the most common things you run into when you're working with high performance individuals that
• 9:15
  they are struggling with when it comes to their expertise?
• 9:20
  When it comes to their expertise, I think one of the biggest things is especially if you're a senior C suite leader or manager and you're a people person, that's going to be very difficult because it's hard to separate
• 9:31
  the people from the processes.
• 9:33
  And it's a part of you, even neurologically and physiologically, that bucks against that.
• 9:37
  You don't Want to do that.
• 9:38
  You know, that's the way that corporate and even I'll say nonprofit works.
• 9:41
  I'm sorry, my nonprofit people.
• 9:43
  I said the quiet part out loud.
• 9:46
  And if you're the type, especially entrepreneurial, where you carry people from startups with you wherever you go, you can start to want to manage them more than managing your own health and wellness.
• 9:57
  And when you begin to hit a wall and you also have things going on on home front, that's the biggest thing I'm working with a lot of these people on because they're managing multiple people, they're managing what they
• 10:07
  would consider.
• 10:07
  I don't really like the H word, but their happiness, their well being and for some of that you have to be.
• 10:13
  I don't like the V word.
• 10:14
  You know, we've heard that in the last five years.
• 10:16
  What?
• 10:16
  I'm entering my villain era and I'm going to say this and this is not going to make a lot of sense to the super proper folks.
• 10:22
  I'm not a comic book geek.
• 10:24
  I'm just learning about a lot of these Marvel and DC superheroes.
• 10:27
  But recently one of my best friends came out to D.C.
• 10:30
  a couple of years ago and he's like, we gotta go see Deadpool and Wolverine.
• 10:33
  Because it was Wolverine.
• 10:34
  I was willing to go see it.
• 10:35
  And I was like, what have I laid my eyes on?
• 10:38
  Yes.
• 10:38
  I did not see that one.
• 10:39
  Even though I am the biggest Marvel geek you'll probably meet.
• 10:43
  Yes, it was pretty wild.
• 10:45
  Yeah.
• 10:45
  But it was in the midst of that.
• 10:48
  From a business standpoint and even from a faith based standpoint, like God spoke to me.
• 10:52
  It's just like for years and you know my story, I tried to be everyone's hero.
• 10:57
  Yeah.
• 10:57
  And then I slid into, I think I'm in this villain era.
• 11:00
  And spiritually, you know, words are spirit.
• 11:02
  We want to be careful about what we put out there.
• 11:04
  Even if you guys who listen to this believe in the universe, the universe is listening to what you are saying.
• 11:09
  And so when I started sliding into the opposite.
• 11:12
  I'm ready to be everybody's villain, then doors started closing for me.
• 11:16
  And from a business standpoint, whether you're an entrepreneur or leader, you'll find that you're having hard times with interpersonal relationships.
• 11:23
  When you want to be everybody's hero, you're going to burn out and hit the wall.
• 11:25
  Because as a human being, your body has limited capacity.
• 11:28
  Why am I bringing Deadpool into this?
• 11:30
  When I saw this film and saw the way this person presented themselves, I'm like, oh, he's nothing to anyone.
• 11:35
  He just is.
• 11:37
  And so it's just like he exists.
• 11:38
  Yeah, he just exists.
• 11:40
  I'm like, he's not really a villain.
• 11:41
  Certainly not.
• 11:42
  And he's definitely not a hero.
• 11:43
  He just is.
• 11:45
  And when I began to embrace that for myself, it's just like, Jamal, you just are.
• 11:49
  And when you just are, you can tell someone yes to something that you have the capacity for, and you can tell someone no to what you don't have capacity for.
• 11:56
  And in business, that creates one of the a words that we all love, alignment phrases that I've coined and trademark.
• 12:04
  Alignment is the on ramp to your divine assignment.
• 12:06
  You know, when you're aligned, you don't have to strive.
• 12:09
  You know, when you're aligned, you don't have to carry, you know, your whole staff and your whole team, or try to carry and manage your manager's emotions.
• 12:17
  You know, you're aligned.
• 12:19
  It doesn't mean that things don't come up that you don't have to insert yourself in, but you insert yourself understanding your capacity.
• 12:28
  Absolutely.
• 12:29
  And one of the things I've been doing, like, when I lay in bed at night, I think about all the things that bring me joy in my life.
• 12:36
  And then I tell myself it's okay to relish in this joy, even when not everything in my life is joyful.
• 12:46
  That's really good because that's.
• 12:48
  That's a struggle, right?
• 12:49
  We don't let ourselves feel joy.
• 12:52
  No, not the givers.
• 12:53
  The givers, the.
• 12:54
  The perfectionists, the people pleasers, the doers.
• 12:57
  We are.
• 12:58
  I would say we would make great athletes because it's like, okay, on to the next trophy without even enjoying the victory that you've already had.
• 13:05
  And the thing about it is that when you don't do that, the brain never gets to record and says, I want to do more of this.
• 13:11
  Yes, for sure.
• 13:12
  Okay, so Jamal, people are listening to this.
• 13:14
  They're like, I want to talk to Jamal.
• 13:16
  I want to read Jamal's stuff.
• 13:17
  How can they get in touch with you?
• 13:20
  What's the best way to follow you and talk to you or not talk to you.
• 13:24
  Don't slide into his DMs, but, like, figure out more about your awesomeness.
• 13:29
  One of the best ways to link with me is to get on LinkedIn.
• 13:33
  LinkedIn has horrible search, but because of the spelling of my name, I'm the easiest person to find on LinkedIn.
• 13:39
  I'm the easiest person to Google.
• 13:40
  My name myself carries super high SEO.
• 13:43
  My website is listen and speak.com, but you can link with me on LinkedIn, and yes, you can send me a DM.
• 13:48
  And it will not be an intern, it will not be an automation.
• 13:51
  It actually will be me who responds to you within 24 to 48 hours.
• 13:56
  That's the easiest way to get in contact with me.
• 13:58
  And also go on Apple, Spotify, check out the podcast.
• 14:02
  Absolutely.
• 14:03
  But don't waste his time, please, because he's my friend.
• 14:05
  All right, so thank you for being here for this episode.
• 14:09
  I get the privilege of recording two more episodes with Jamal.
• 14:12
  But for everyone listening, thank you.
• 14:13
  And remember that your expertise can be made real as long as you're willing to face the fact that you're probably more awesome than you think.
• 14:22
  And now, if you liked the episode, I'm going to make an ask, because I wouldn't be a sales expert if I didn't.
• 14:29
  Would you please leave a rating and review and hit subscribe?
• 14:33
  In exchange, I'm going to give you my Find your Wonder Work system.
• 14:38
  It's five prompts, five minutes, and names.
• 14:41
  The thing that you're already excellent at but don't know to call a skill.
• 14:45
  This is basically a what do you do on Autopilot?
• 14:48
  Except I've created it as a tool.
• 14:51
  So leave your review and then go claim your reward at Bit Ly expertisemr.
• 15:00
  That's bitly expertisemr.
• 15:05
  And I hope to hear you or my guest, I guess, in the next episode.
• 15:10
  Thanks.