Latest / Coffee Playdate Podcast with Dr. Olga Deengar / From Rural Doc to AI Entrepreneur Ep 38 : How Tod Stillson Built Autonomy on His Own Terms
Transcript
- Dr. Olga Deengar: Welcome to the Coffee Playdate Podcast. I have a very special guest with me today, Dr. Todd Stilson. Tod Stillson: Hey, how you doing, Coach? I can't wait to be in your show and talk to you today. Dr. Olga Deengar: I'm so excited to have you here. I'm actually a huge fan. I admire your work. I love the book that you wrote, Doctor Incorporated. I've read it like three times. It's changed my life. Tod Stillson: Yeah, thank you. That's great. Dr. Olga Deengar: Thank you so much for being here. Tod Stillson: Yeah. You know what? It's really humbling. talked to the publisher. Actually, I did a podcast with the publisher about a week ago. And I told him that it's humbling to me when I speak to other fellow professionals like you who read the book and they say exactly what you just said. This is one of the best books I've ever read. This is really life changing. This is really powerful. And it's humbling to me because that's why I wrote it. I did want to share the visibility of what was possible in terms of how we could regain our autonomy in the marketplace as doctors. I'm glad that inspired you and it inspires others. And that just makes me happy, to be honest. Dr. Olga Deengar: Absolutely, it resonated so well with me and I've used a lot of the practical tips that you give in the book in my real life, in my professional life, which I think Tod Stillson: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: is the most important piece too. Tod Stillson: Absolutely. And that's, it's, it's why it's, I give some concepts and some kind of some ideas and even some possibilities in the book. But at the end of the day, the application of it to your own specific life about how professional autonomy and independence look like where you're at with your family and your profession and your specialty, all totally unique. So it's all kind of driven by you. But I think the key point is, is knowing that it's possible. That's what the book kind of exposes. It's called Possibilities, right? Dr. Olga Deengar: That's exactly right. So I always ask my guests if you drink coffee Tod Stillson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: and then how do you like your coffee? Tod Stillson: I drink my coffee in my handmade mug. I made this, if your guests are watching this, but it's a beautifully painted mug. And I have my coffee with creamer and I like the Italian sweet cream best. That's my favorite. Dr. Olga Deengar: Very interesting. And how many cups of coffee in a day would you usually have? Tod Stillson: Well, this is a big mug, so probably technically that is worth two cups of coffee, but I consider it just one cup. And I'm old enough, now I'm over 60, Olga, and so I have to limit my coffee to before noon, because afternoon, if I have coffee, my body tells me that it's not my friend. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yes, it's hard to fall asleep after that. All Tod Stillson: Yep, it is. Dr. Olga Deengar: right, so we're going to play our first game. It's called the rapid fire questions game. I'm going to ask you to choose between one answer or the other. Just go with your gut instinct. You don't need to explain your answer as to why. Here we go. Do you prefer to have more credentials or more courage? Tod Stillson: Courage. Dr. Olga Deengar: Okay, how about this? Do you prefer teaching doctors business or teaching doctors tech? Tod Stillson: business, teaching doctors business. Dr. Olga Deengar: Perfect. How about coffee and planning or walking and thinking? Tod Stillson: Walking and thinking. Dr. Olga Deengar: Great. And the last question here, country fare food or home cooked comfort food? Tod Stillson: Home cooked comfort food. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yes. Amazing. So the next game is called Take a Sip. It's the same concept as the rapid fire questions game, but this time we both answer. And if our answers match, we take a sip from our coffee cups. Tod Stillson: yay, fun. Dr. Olga Deengar: The first question here is a slow drive down familiar streets or a fast trip to somewhere new. Tod Stillson: Fast trip to somewhere new for me. Dr. Olga Deengar: I would have to say the slow drive down familiar streets. Tod Stillson: Okay, no worries, good. Dr. Olga Deengar: Next one is bringing work home or keeping work at work. Tod Stillson: Keeping work at work. Yes. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yes, absolutely, me too. Cheers to that. Next one is raising future physicians or letting them choose their own path. Tod Stillson: letting them choose their own path. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yes, me too. Even if that path may be in medicine, you know, it's up to them. Tod Stillson: Yeah, yeah, so to that point, I have five children. Four of the five are in medicine. One's a doctor and three nurses. And then one works at a dentist office. So they're all sort of medically oriented, but that was not on purpose. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, you let them choose their own path. Beautiful. The last question here, get there fast or enjoy the journey. Tod Stillson: I'm a get there fast guy. Yeah. Okay, good. You know, Dr. Olga Deengar: You are! I'm gonna enjoy the journey. Cool! Tod Stillson: fortunately my wife is an enjoy the journey person. So when it comes to balance in a home, that's how we have a nice balance with one another. Yeah, they do. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, opposites attract. So Todd, I know a little bit about you, but can you tell our listeners a Tod Stillson: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: little bit about the work that you do? Tod Stillson: Yeah, so for 30 years, I was a rural family doctor who did a bit of everything in as rural doctors do, and that included surgical obstetrics. And I loved it. It was my passion. It was in my home county that I grew up in. And it was a wonderful career. I worked the first half of my career as an employee doctor, the second half of my career as an independent contractor for that same hospital. And that's what my book is about. It kind of tells that story and that journey to independent contracting. So, Doctor Incorporated, check it out if you want to and on amazon.com. But then I retired a couple of years ago, my wife laughs at me, quote, retired, but I'm an entrepreneur at heart. And I knew my post retirement passion gig was going to be the Physician Entrepreneur Academy that I run. That's part of the book and all the aftermath of that. That where I coach and... and create courses and do consultations for doctors who are trying to grow in their independence. And that's been fun. And I continue to do that on regular basis. But the big thing is I also pivoted into health tech and I created an on-demand urgent care business called ChatRx. And it is really cool and innovative. And that included building software that supports it that's FDA approved and a bunch of processes that go with it. I quote, retired from rural medicine, but I'm still kind of working full time doing medicine. But now doing it what I consider in the modern way that physicians can. use an AI symptom checker. I do asynchronous medical care in this app and is really modern, very profound, very cutting edge and frontier. So it's fun. Dr. Olga Deengar: Wow. Yes, AI is huge nowadays and I'm curious to Tod Stillson: Yes it is. Dr. Olga Deengar: know what sparked your interest to start up chatRx. Tod Stillson: Well, and so that's a great question. So you kind of got to go way back to when I went to college, I went to school to be a pharmacist. I ended up becoming a doctor, but I have that pharmacy background. And in that process, I have kind of almost an engineering spirit in me. And so once I got into practice and began to see the throughput of all the... the different services you can provide that are above and beyond you individually. Like a physician has a ceiling, appointment slots, the number of people you can see, the support staff to make it happen. And when you're in rural medicine, you realize you need kind of an army of people around you to kind of extend and support the work that you're doing. So what you do is you engineer systems. and a lot of doctors that are listeners will understand that. That's the PAs and NP's of the world as an example, classic extenders, right? And in a rural practice, you also have RNs who do things. I had pharmacists embedded in my medical practice. I had behavioral therapists embedded in my medical practice, doing a lot of these things that sort of extended my knowledge base and I orchestrated our engineered workflows that supported that, right? Think of things that a lot of the doctors who are especially in ambulatory clinics will do, standing orders, right? So a staff person, if a person calls about X, let's say it's a refill on their thyroid medicine, we have a standing order. Hey, if they've been in the past year and had their TSH done, they're gonna get a refill on the medicine and schedule an appointment. That's a standing order, right? The nurse executes it, makes it happen, I sign off on it later. The order for the lab, the order for the medicine refill, all done. That's making me work. smarter, not harder, right? So engineering the tradition in the old system was really important. And so what I began to realize was there was a really profound way to engineer how we could do medicine from a software standpoint. And so as I to approach retirement, I began to think like, how can I engineer a system that allows me to answer two fundamental questions that patients have asked me at Walmart, ballgames, church, anywhere I go, it's these two questions. Hey doc, do you think I need to see a doctor for this? And then the second question is, hey doc, do you think I need an antibiotic for this? Okay, very common. And when you work in a small town in a rural place, they're kind of semi almost all your patients, but. Anyhow, they see you in different environments outside of the clinic and office, and they don't know the answer to those questions. And so you would answer them. And as time went on, that was text messages, direct Facebook messages, like 1,000 different channels that people could reach you on. And so I thought to myself, I need an engineer, a system that answers those two fundamental questions for patients. And then actually, when they need or are qualified and need something, I actually can provide the care asynchronously, right? So that's what I did. I created a proprietary AI system that does a triage of those symptoms, answering those questions in regard to 39 common infections that everybody gets, the UTI, the sinus infection, the bronchitis, the athlete's foot, number of things that people get and help them determine for free. Do you even need to see a doctor or do you need treatment? And if they do, I offer a cash price, no insurance, straightforward approach to treat those conditions for $25 all orchestrated in an asynchronous system. And the end result is the patients get a chat-based, not audio visual, 10-minute experience that allows them to have their simple, common things treated. making sure they're medically qualified to get them. There's a whole system that's AI based to support that. That leads to a throughput of them getting the prescription to their pharmacy 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Okay. So it's a direct to consumer sort of approach to medicine that's free of insurance. That comes back to independence. That comes back to having autonomy, comes back to control. For me, it comes back to my passion for helping patients. I grew up in a blue collar home. I know what it's like to pay the bill for the things that cost and medicine, as I tell people today, cost more than ever and you get less for what you pay for than ever before too. So when it comes to the consumer side of the equation, at least that's the case. So I created something that I think is a solution for the average consumer and boy, it's been a great success and we're... live in Michigan, Indiana, Illinois right now, plan to expand nationally. And it's like I scratched an itch that exists and it's really gone. yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: I'm so happy to hear it's taken off. This is incredible. Tod Stillson: So that was a long-winded answer to, I've had 30 years of experience that led me to know what do the average consumers need and then creating a solution to that problem in the marketplace that meets that solution. And And really what I consider creating a value product first, creating something for them first, the symptom checker's free, I don't charge for that. I just let them figure out if they need it or not. And then in creating that value and creating a business model around that rather than trying to extract a value first, I create the value, present it to them and say, hey, would you like treatment? And patients really respect and like that. So it's a different way of doing medicine, but it's very powerful. Dr. Olga Deengar: It is and it's so accessible. mean, you can reach people Tod Stillson: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: all over country. Like you mentioned, the few states that we're friends with. Tod Stillson: I can. Mm-hmm. Yep. it's, know, 80 % of our users are on their mobile phones, right? Because that's what we all use, the computers in our pocket. I like to say ChatRx is like having a doc in your pocket. Now, here's the thing, if you go into the micro of it, like, as patients, we know the data shows this, patients are on GPT, they're on Gemini, they're on CLAWD, asking these medical questions. They will self triage these medical questions to those generic chat bots. The studies, the real medical studies out there show that they're about 50 to 60 % effective at being in triage. So bottom line is those sort of standard products are good for a lot of things in terms of AI, but they're not good at triaging symptoms. Now take a step back and look at the product that I created that is engineered and created around the right sort of knowledge base to support proper triaging. we're 100 % effective, okay? And so our triage system, over 5,000 patients is 100 % accurate. so, again, giving patients a valuable resource to just answer those two questions, do I need to see a doctor? Do I need a prescription for an antibiotic to treat it for free? That's the value we provide and it's reliable, trustworthy, and accurate. And so that's important to do and patients want it. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, you're very innovative, very forward thinking, you know, trying to figure Tod Stillson: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: out what is it truly that people want. And it's a lot of work, you know, going to the doctor for that very simple Tod Stillson: Hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: question. You have to take time off of work. You have to get Tod Stillson: Yep. Dr. Olga Deengar: yourself over there, drive there, or whatever means of transportation. have to do that. Then you have to wait in the waiting room until they see you. It's a long day. Tod Stillson: Yep, 100%. Yeah, and it's so true. And at the end of the day, if you can cut out the insurance, my $25 fee as an example is less than a lot of copays to be very frank. And so you not only save time, you also save money, and it's very efficient, and which are all key terms and key pieces of information for consumers in the marketplace today. And but you know, how did I get there? I didn't get there by saying I'm going to extract value out of people first. I got there because I had 30 years of experience knowing this is what patients wanted and asked for. And then I just simply created a solution to answer those questions. And your listeners do this all day long. Your men and women who are in medicine, you know, we are great problem solvers and we identify these problems in our patients in the exam room or on the floor of the hospital. or in the ER all day long and provide solutions for them 15 minutes at a time. When it comes to business, we can start to look at the marketplace a little more broadly and look at how we fit into the current problems that exist in the marketplace and how we can solve those problems. my product also kind of sort of pushes into the idea that there's a position shortage, right? and you and I were talking about this off air before we got on that, you know, we are in a buyer's market right now in terms of as a physician, you can find all kinds of jobs in all kinds of ways and all kinds of dimensions because there is a physician shortage that is only growing. And so because of that professional asset that we have and because of those professional services we can provide, they can be packaged into a whole bunch of different ways. for us to deliver that care in a way that makes sense. For you, it's working as a locum's hospitalist, right? Who only takes a certain number of shifts per year to match the lifestyle you want. For me, lifestyle is important. I'm a first time grandpa over the past 15 months and I wanna spend time with my family in my quote retirement. And asynchronous care allows me, asynchronous telemedicine allows me to do that. have flexibility. to use my professional skills to still help people, but do it in a way that makes sense to the lifestyle I want to live. All of your listeners need to know that you have that same power. Now, I applaud you if you wanna create a health tech product like I did. Good for you. It's a lot of work, I'll tell you. But I'll also say, it doesn't have to go that way either. You can do exactly what you did. Create the lifestyle you want based upon your professional skills and you have the power to do that. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yes, absolutely. It's always a choice. And a lot of us don't realize, especially I didn't realize when I just came out of residency that I can choose not to take on a full-time job because everybody was doing Tod Stillson: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: a full-time job. And that's exactly what I went into. I, you know, it was a great experience. But then I started thinking, well, what are my other options? Maybe there's a way Tod Stillson: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: that I can balance my work life balance a little bit better and really find ways of designing my life on my own terms. Tod Stillson: I think that key is exactly what you said. If you're proactively designing your life on your own terms, your degree, your license, your professional skills and services that you can provide are one of the elements that you have control over that you don't have to fit into the box of somebody else and do their work for them for their end result. You can fit it into the box that you want to design it and let it do the work that you want it to do for you, right? And in today's world where medicine can be location independent, it's not location dependent. In other words, if I live in a rural area, I can do my work remotely through telemedicine and through my ChattRx asynchronous care anywhere in the country. I don't have to live in those places to do it. And for you, I don't know if you live in the same community that the hospital you do locums in is, but a lot of people don't. And if they can kind of batch it together, they might, you might choose to live in San Diego, but go to Chicago to do your locums work, right? Like that's totally fine to do. And that's the power you have. That's what you get to do as a physician. I mean, we work hard to earn that degree, those 12 to 15 years, they need to be worth something to us. And what they're worth is independence and autonomy if you begin to recognize it. I'm old enough to say this. mean, 30 years ago, almost 30 plus years ago when I finished training residency, kind of the standard was you go live in the community, you're going to work, right? Like that was almost just normal. And it's still a kind of, there's a sense of normalcy to that until you realize you don't have to do that. And you can disconnect those two and you can create the lifestyle and balance and location that you want to live in that is separate from where you're doing a professional work. there are just so many possibilities today. And that's one of the joys. I'm glad you're doing what you're doing, exposing that coaching, supporting people, helping them to thrive in the place that they are. and to do a professional work of doing good, helping other people, but doing it in a way that makes sense to your lifestyle. That's what I coach and support with PEA as well. And it's very special. And I love watching doctors kind of get their brain wrapped around it. And when they do, they just are so happy and thrive and do so well compared to kind of what has traditionally been the source of burnout, which is just traditional employment that just sort of strips. that autonomy and control and you're just doing somebody else's work. So I love that you figured that out and you're building exactly what makes sense to you. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, absolutely. I'm so excited. I I couldn't have envisioned a better life for myself because now I have control over my own time. I have control over Tod Stillson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: where I put my energy, you know, raising my kids. Tod Stillson: Yep. Dr. Olga Deengar: This is a really important season of my life and I want to be there for them, Tod Stillson: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: do the things that matter most to me. So it's important. Tod Stillson: Yeah, before the, before we got on the air, you said something to the effect that I think that a lot of your work is sort of bunched up into the summer and then the rest of the time you're off mostly because you're covering a lot of physicians who are on vacation in terms of your work as a locums. So I got to believe that when you're working, you're working hard. I mean, when you, when you get into that zone, there's just, you put a lot of effort into it and it takes a lot out of you. But man, the gain is those other nine months or so where you have so much freedom and flexibility to sort of what I say, live like the rest of the world, OK, to kind of feel like you're a quote normal person is just so powerful. And and you figured it out. You unlocked it. Right. And this is really cool. Dr. Olga Deengar: That's amazing. So I want to pivot a Tod Stillson: Yeah, good job. Dr. Olga Deengar: little bit. Thank you. And I want to ask you, what kind of mindset shift did you need to have as you were pursuing your entrepreneurial journey? Tod Stillson: I think ownership is the first one. And that's the most important concept is, you know, either choose to be an owner or choose to be an employee. you know, we're conditioned due to how our training goes that we're frankly taught by employed doctors, all of our training, whether it be in university or whether it be in medical school or residency, they're all employed people. And so what's the version of medicine that most of us get exposed to? It is... employment, right? And so that's why it's just the natural fit when you come out. And of course, there's been the great corporatization of medicine in the US that, you know, makes you feel like you don't have any options. But I think mindset are twofold. The primary is thinking that you can be an owner as possible and then thinking once you begin to build that sort of possibility of being an owner, then you think about what flavor of ownership you want, right? Like Again, most people just assume that ownership involves opening a private practice. Well, that's not true. There are so many flavors of independent ownership of your practice, especially in a micro corporation model where you think of yourself as being the sole professional services provider. Locum's a great example of that like you do. You don't need an office clinic building or other things. You don't need a staff to support what you do. You are a work living, walking business, right? You just, where you show up, you're a business. And to understand that sense of ownership is really, really important in that you know that you can enter the marketplace in that capacity. I like to remind doctors that in every hospital's drawer, when it comes to the contract, they offer up to you to work there. And by the way, they're all vying for you unless you live in a very urban, area where there's a huge number of medical schools and there's a little more competition for the positions, if you will. Everywhere else, they're begging to get you. The reality is when you say, yes, I'd like to come, I'm interested, they're going to reach into their drawer, i.e. their computer, and they're going to offer you a contract. And they're going to offer you one or two contracts. 1099, a contractor, independent contractor, meaning you are a business. or W-2, i.e. you're going to be an employee, okay? Now, their default is W-2, and that's what they're going to offer to you. And unless you know, unless you have the street sense to know, well, wait a second. I don't want the W-2 contract. I have my own corporation. I'm a PC or a PLLC. I want the 1099 contract. They won't offer it to you unless you know to ask for it. And so you have to have street sense, you have to have awareness, business sense of the power that you have. And if you sit in most, a lot of places, quite honestly, they'll go, oh, oh, I didn't know you wanted to be considered a contractor. Okay, well, here's the contractor contract, right? So that why in the road on the first day, the first moment of your kind of building that sort of decision tree, you have to have the mindset, I am an owner, I can be an owner. I want to go into this relationship, defining myself as an owner, i.e. as a business, is fundamental. And so that's where a lot of doctors don't even know that exists. They don't even know that's a possibility. They just are kind of like, well, this is the contract they offered me. I thought that's the contract they offer me. And you won't know until you know. I don't remember if it's in my book or it's one of my blog posts I put this in. I'm going to share this story real briefly to you. It reminds me of the One time that my wife and I went to Dairy Queen and I was ordering my peanut butter parfait and she said, she said, well, I'm to get a peanut butter parfait. But she said, I'm going to have them put peanut sauce on it rather than chocolate sauce. I don't want the chocolate. I want to be peanut sauce. And I looked at her, I said, I didn't know that was possible. And I said, I said, it's not on the menu. How did you know to do that? It's just it's a secret menu. All restaurants have secret menus. You just have to know to ask for it and they'll do it. And the light bulb went off in my head. I'm like, that's just like physician contracts. You don't even know it exists until you see somebody else do it and you go, well, that is possible. Why didn't I ask for that? Right. So it's a thing, but it comes back to mindset of being an owner and comes back to you engaging in that relationship with that place where you're working to decide exactly what you want that to look like. OK. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, no, I love those tips and there's so much truth to that too, because if we don't get into this new identity, if we don't start thinking Tod Stillson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: outside the box as a business owner, then we're never going to be able to look for those opportunities that are out there. Tod Stillson: Yeah, and I love the fact that you brought up identity. I think about ownership mindset is important, but identity is even one step back further. It's that sort of broader view. And for you as a working mom, whose career and life doesn't have to be solely defined by medicine, right? That comes back to those identity concepts that we build into. Even the idea I think you'd mentioned, like working full time, well, Am I undervalue myself if I start at a, as I work 0.5 or 0.6 rather than a 1.0? And we have a lot of us kind of come into the world and life engaged in this idea that we're less valuable if we're not working full time, that somehow the work that we're doing is less meaningful or that we're a sissy or we can't do the work or we can't. can't hold up to what everybody else is doing. And that's just, it's not true. You just have to know what your true core identity is, what the values are that go around that. And as you said, begin to build the box that fits into and then say, now where does work fit into that? Where does my career fit into that? How does being a professional fit into that? And that's reverse engineering that's really important. And that is fundamental to identity, Olga. Dr. Olga Deengar: that's a great explanation. I really love that. Now I want to ask you, growing a couple of businesses now is a lot of work. Has there been a challenge Tod Stillson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: that you have to overcome and what did you learn from that challenge? Tod Stillson: I think, especially for physicians, and that's who your audience is primarily to, we are not taught business skills. Most of us come through our training without even seeing many mentors who do business. And certainly most of our medical education is so heavily steeped in medicine that you just very little business skills that you learn. So you need to lean into coaching support, mentoring, find places where you can grow those business skills and assets and ask the questions that really are typical of any business owner whom like you, like what if my revenue is short and my income is gonna Dr. Olga Deengar: expenses. Tod Stillson: be, yeah, right, exactly. What if things are out of balance in terms of... what's going on with this business and where are the levers that I can push to try and change this and or even just fundamental bookkeeping questions about how I categorize something in my QuickBooks account or all the things that kind of go with running a business that you just don't know till you know, till you get there. And physicians are unfortunately gifted typically with the fear of failure. And so they've always been high-performers, successful, and sort of know everything ahead of time. And when you get into business, you kind of have to be able to be free to adapt, learn, grow as you go and not know it all. And so that's a skill that you have to learn to embrace to how to adapt, how to ask for help, how to fill the gaps that you might have, and even identify opportunities that don't exist. There's a lot involved in it. would just say a coach like you, you do coaching, I do coaching. Like PEA, I write a blog every other day that just has a lot of good business sense in it that's free. mean, you know, do free things, okay, like that, where you're just reading and learning and growing. But also find a mentor, you know, find somebody else that's maybe doing something similar to you in medicine, or even just a business mentor. I've had a lot of good business mentors in my life. In fact, I have one of my best friends from high school who's a franchise owner of Subways, does a lot of business. We meet monthly and we talk live together, but we also talk business and he's got a lot of business sense and savvy and you'll learn from people just by rubbing shoulders with them. So a collaboration makes a big difference. Dr. Olga Deengar: It does. It does. It's like finding your tribe. You people who are like, Tod Stillson: Mm-hmm, it is. Dr. Olga Deengar: or thinking in similar ways, but also have a fresh perspective to bring. It's really great to touch base. Tod Stillson: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. so like my PA community, Physician Entrepreneur Academy, I've got like 5,500 members in it now. And that's that just sense of it's taken me about five years to grow that. But it's that sense of camaraderie and community that exists in that that has is exactly what you said. You people find their tribe. This is the tribe of people that are I know are talking and thinking about. independent practice and preserving autonomy and ownership mindsets and all those things, lifestyle balance and not just being a slave to the system or some corporation. All of those things are sort of continuously baked in, supported, and you find peers and other people that you connect with. And that's just really important. We need that. All of us need that. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, absolutely we do. Now I know you've given a lot Tod Stillson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: of great insight already, but Todd is there maybe something that you could have whispered to your early date, the younger Todd, any piece of advice that Tod Stillson: Hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: you would have given him to help him succeed or do something that's different in the business? Tod Stillson: Yeah, I would say again, just know that my entire book is written to my son. So because he was going into medicine, so he's as a budding family doctor. That's really it is kind of my younger book to younger Todd version. But in that context, I would say do everything you can to preserve your autonomy and your control in the marketplace with. the skills that you've created as a doctor. And if you do that, you're gonna usually feel better, thrive and find more success. so, yeah, don't be afraid to do that. Dr. Olga Deengar: Don't be afraid to be more autonomous. Find your way. Tod Stillson: Yeah, yeah, don't be afraid to be more independent, to be more autonomous, to preserve your autonomy and to create the life and the lifestyle that you want. It's very interesting, I'll tell you this. When I came out and began practicing medicine, I kind of had this mindset that medicine was my life. It was my calling. It was my purpose. In fact, it was everything. was like, am a doctor and disassociating between my doctor life and my other life was hard to do. And as my son came along and went into medicine, he had a whole different viewpoint as Gen Zers and millennials do. And it was a lot more balanced and a lot more like medicine, not my life. It's more like it's a job that I do. And I like doing it, but it doesn't have to define my whole identity. And as I began to unpack that in my own life, to be honest, I began to realize he's right. He's right about that. It doesn't have to be an all consuming calling. it can be something that you build and stack in your life in a way that makes more sense to you. And still you're doing good, still you're providing services, still you're being every bit of the doctor that you were meant to be, but you don't have to sell your soul to it. And so I think hearing that message is important for doctors to hear and know. And I especially have a tender place in my heart for working women doctors. I think they have a... pretty tough gig, between family life, marriage, home, working full time, I think is a little tougher than the male, to be honest, is my opinion. And I think hearing that, those words, you don't have to sell your soul, the medicine is an important thing for them to hear. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, it's incredible how much we learn from our children. Tod Stillson: Yeah, right. It's true. Yeah. And I'm thankful for that, right? know, that we always call the lab in our home. It was like the lab where I learned, you know, the good things to do as a parent, the bad things to do as a parent, mistakes I made, but also learn from them. And especially as your kids get into young adulthood, there's a lot to learn from them. And, you know, one of the qualities of doctors is we're lifelong learners. So I have a curiosity and a desire to learn from those I'm around and that includes my own children. Dr. Olga Deengar: We are definitely lifelong learners. I couldn't even think about having it any other way. You I don't think I could ever Tod Stillson: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: stop learning and like retire. Tod Stillson: Yeah, no, you know, exactly. If I'm not even when I'm not doing medicine, trust me, I'll be learning new things, doing new things. And because I just have a natural curiosity and a desire to learn and grow and love reading and love just learning. Right. So just part of how we're wired as doctors, a lot of us. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah. Now to wrap things up, I'd love for you to give a book recommendation for listeners today. Of course, I highly recommend your book, Dr. Incorporated. But is there another book Tod Stillson: Thank you. Dr. Olga Deengar: that you really found inspirational or something that has really moved the needle for you? Tod Stillson: Yeah, it's called Go Giver by Bob Berg. Go Giver by Bob Berg. think it was written about maybe a decade ago somewhere in that zone. But it's really a profound book about business success and the results of creating value over really extracting value first. so, know, concepts like serving before the transaction, relationship as a multiplier, abundance mindset. purpose-driven entrepreneurship, all these things that are baked into this Go Giver book by Bob Burke, it's worth a read. you've never read it as a listenership, they should take a listen to it either on audiobook or read it. Dr. Olga Deengar: I definitely read that book. love Go Giver. It's got so many incredible Tod Stillson: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: insights about contribution. The more you contribute, Tod Stillson: Yes. Dr. Olga Deengar: the more value you give, it all comes back to you. Yeah. Tod Stillson: It really does. And I believe that with all my heart. And again, I think it aligns with us as doctors, right? We're altruistic. We want to do good and we want to provide value to people. And it's not always just about the money or the business transaction. It's just about doing the right thing to help people. Most of us at the core, that's kind of what motivated us to go into medicine. And Bob does a great job in his book sort of wrapping that concept around the sense of business and learning how to build business around that sense. And it's just a well-constructed book that gives some inspiration, and I like that. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Well, Todd, it's been Tod Stillson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: a pleasure having you on the Coffee Playdate podcast. Thank you so much for all of the amazing conversations that we had today. And yeah, Tod Stillson: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: I mean, this has been incredible. Tod Stillson: Well, Olga, it's been my pleasure to be on your show. Thank you for all you're doing to inspire so many people through your podcasts, through your coaching, through the work that you're doing. And coming back to identity, what you're doing in your own home. I mean, it's great you're doing all these things for others, but what you're doing with those three children in your home and how you're managing life and how you're living your best life. Olga, that's the win. That's the biggest win. But by the way, All those things that you've constructed provide the margin and space though for you to do what you're doing here on this podcast, right? Like creating and inspiring others. So good job in putting that all together and thanks for letting me be on your show today. Dr. Olga Deengar: Thank you so much.