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Boxing Podcast: Why Ryan Garcia vs Conor Benn Is A Mismatch (On Paper) · Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: We are going to the Toker Zone.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: It is a special place where I bring on my guest,
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: ATokers5 at X,
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: I almost called it Twitter,
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: who is probably the most knowledgeable, most deep cut boxing person in the world.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Tokers, introduce yourself and just get them ready for how dark this is going to go.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't go that far, but...
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of other people would go that far for me,
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: but yeah,
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: this is going to go to single-camera fights,
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: but only a handful of people in the world have watched in random places.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah...
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: But you get some good fights out of it.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: There's been some good fights that people miss.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Let's go Dylan Arbuckle.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Dylan Arbuckle, for those that don't know, just was in this amazing fight.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Toker sends me the fight.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's absolutely outstanding.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: You should watch it.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: But for a fan of world-class boxing,
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: is Dylan Arbuckle the type of fighter who could show up on an undercard and give
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: a guy a good fight, maybe even win a fight?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Where would you project him?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: No, frankly.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, he's a very, very fun domestic level fighter.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: He's for context.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: He's just, um, he won the British, this British title this year.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry if I can get my words out.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: He won the British title this year,
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: uh, super bands on weight, um, in a great fight against Nico Lavaz.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: And that was on the Nathaniel Collins against Cristobal Llorente on the card.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, He won that fight and now he had a defence against Frankie Story
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: who is I think he's won an area title which is sort of there's levels of titles in
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: the UK that's the lowest level of title you can get and he's a guy that's going
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: to peak around British level and just have these incredible fights
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: if he's matched well.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: If you match him above this level he'll get badly knocked out I think
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: which won't be good but At this level,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: on a TV, on the card, it's what you want, really.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: He's just brilliant.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: He's a brilliant, brilliant watch every single time he gets in there.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't really matter that he's not at the
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: highest level.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, McGee, two fighters, and you say which one he's closer to.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Sam Eggington or Jimmy Sands?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: Eggington.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: How close?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: He reminds me of Eggington.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's actually a really good comparison.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: Sam Eagenton.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a really good comparison, actually.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: He's sort of a similar style, sort of a tall, lanky guy that gets me inside and brawls.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the young up and come around to fight him.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: He's a wild guy.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like Conor Benn versus Ryan Garcia.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: Does he have a motor?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Is the crazy guy with tattoos going to do it?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, typically it doesn't happen.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, everyone loves Sam Egginton, don't they?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think there's anybody that doesn't love him.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think it's hard to dislike a fighter that gives you everything in every fight.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you never leave a Sam Egginton fight and be like,
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: I even feel that way about Tyrone McKenna,
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: where McKenna might be limited,
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: but it's like,
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: even against Patty Donovan,
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: he's getting pieced up, and he's like, let me keep going.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like,
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like there's always going to be a soft spot for the guy that's like in
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: over his head, but wants to try.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, definitely.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: McKenna as well.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: This is...
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: You've probably seen this because I think it was the only ProBots card they did
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: in Ireland.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I was on it.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: Him against Dylan Moran.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: Him against Dylan Moran.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: That war that lasted for about two rounds, was it?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: Two or three rounds?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was just a banger.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: It was like unqualified to be as good as it was.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was great.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: But this is the type of thing that I sort of enjoy.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: I take...
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: Note, obviously, of the big stuff, but it's draining.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of it's draining and sort of,
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, a lot of these fights I find a lot more pure, if that makes sense.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: They're just two guys going at it and it's not the best level,
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: but it's a lot like, yeah,
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: there's not the nonsense,
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: I guess, that's with a lot of other stuff in the sport, which I enjoy.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Two takes for me,
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: because I watch a lot of undercard boxing,
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: probably not as much as you,
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: but I'm a bit older than you, so it gets harder when you get older.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you got an edge on me that you're younger.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'd be that sick if I was younger, but...
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think that the one thing I really like you,
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: the purity is,
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: is a good word for it,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: but there's like,
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: you don't really know where guys are going, especially on undercards.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: I love the undercards because the trajectory is being written by their ability and
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: the stories haven't been written about the fighter.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you really are going in and just judging a fighter.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: I always say like people can't watch amateur boxing or undercard fights
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: because you have to watch the fights and most people just sign into the narratives
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: and So when you're watching it,
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: I sometimes feel naked and I'm like, do I know what I'm watching?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because no one's forming an opinion on it.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: You could be wrong because you could see the wrong thing.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of find that really fun.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I also just find like a lot of times these fights are better than like,
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: say, the Ryan Garcia's versus Conor Ben.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean...
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: I've got a lot of thoughts about Ryan Garcia.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Jump right into that.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Jump right into that.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think that for Americans, we don't even understand the perspective of Conor Bend.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: He's just a goofy guy with tattoos who I don't think is a world-class fighter personally.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: And Garcia is also kind of a strange guy.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: But you jump into your opinion.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'll leave Garcia because quite frankly,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: a lot of the stuff he's done and said have been Yeah, I'll leave that.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: Ben, it's a weird one.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think,
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: relating this to sort of a North American audience,
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think a lot of people over your side of
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: the pond realise just how big Nigel was and how big Chris Senior was back in
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: the day.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: And guys like Michael Watson, Steve Collins, obviously, all these sort of guys around that era.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: It was probably the peak of British boxing, maybe.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then you had Nas coming along as well.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: It was all on free TV.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: And they are still sort of megastars.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why the first fight sold.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not first fight, sorry.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: The fights with the children, Chris Jr. and Conor sold.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's why they essentially have had careers and frankly been granted opportunities
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: that Their ability doesn't deserve... You know, they've had...
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: They're living off their dad's names, if we're just going to say it.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: But it's not just like a...
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's sort of...
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't really think Americans really understand how big they are.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: And that's sort of fair enough, because...
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: You look around sort of the 90s and 80s era, and a lot of the Brits didn't fight the best guys.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't fight Tony, didn't fight none, didn't fight guys like that, Jones.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: But they were big, man.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what they are.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think Conor Benz is a one-level fighter.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think he'd beat,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: you look at the British champion of Worldweight Constance,
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: you know, I don't think he'd beat him.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's a banger of a fight.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's like a 50-50 fight.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think so.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think Ursy would comfortably outbox him, to be honest.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: But that's sort of a decent levels fight.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: It sort of makes more sense.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: But obviously, Matchroom did a very good job of manoeuvring Ben around fights that he'd lose.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: There was a lot of talk about David Avanissian back in the day and Josh Kelly back in the day.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: They manoeuvred him around those.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: Got in the payoff against Eubank.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: And now those two fights of
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: Sort of,
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: pushed into a level where he's now commercially a world-level fighter,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: but ability-wise not.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where it is.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not even getting into the drug issue either, which was...
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: Which we don't even need to touch on.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: Another conversation.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: I don't understand how big...
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Eubank and Ben are and I remember when Eubank first came to America it was
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: a little goofy seeing his dad in the gyms acting like a British diplomat like it was
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: a little like what is going on here which I'm probably the problem there
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: to be perfectly honest I didn't realize how famous he was.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah I mean Americans like they are sort of This isn't me like putting sort of you
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: and your countrymen down either.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: We do it to everybody else.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, take your shot.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's not even really a shot.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: I just don't think there's this British boxing bubble.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think people that are outside the British scene really understand it.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: There's this thing in Britain where a promoter can grab a world title and Or make up
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: a world title like they essentially did with the WBO.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't a recognised title really back in the sort of 80s and 90s.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: And they just have domestic fights with it.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: And they pass it around British and Irish fighters and they're huge
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: because there's sort of a lot
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: of local pride in the UK and Ireland.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: Guys from your area, guys from your town.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: And there's no real interest in... Well,
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: there is,
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: but you have to be really,
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: really good as a foreign fighter to be able to be interesting in the UK.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it kind of plays up the local rivalries between the football teams
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: and communities, and it plays through boxing?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Eubank and Ben weren't really football teams, but a lot of other guys are.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: Your guys like Ricky Hatton were obviously...
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: Josh Warrington's big, big, big following from Leeds.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: But it's sort of that local,
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: the guy that you know from down the pub is fighting or the local guy.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: And especially when it was on like big TV networks.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Big guy at the bar, Dave Allen.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: Less in the better.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: But if there's one fight,
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: This is a super deep cut.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you've seen this.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, go for it.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to look up the year to get this right because it was way before my time.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: If there is one fight that sort of defines this, it's a British title fight.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: What year was it?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: Where is it?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, 1985.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: Have you watched or read about Mark Hayler against Errol Christie?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: No, but please give it to me.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: So, Errol Christie was a guy from the Midlands,
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: from Coventry, around Leicester, that sort of area, who was Caribbean.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: And Mark Hayler had basically a following from East London,
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: from West Ham, full of football hooligans and...
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: That was a massive fight in the 80s.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: There was loads of tension around it, race relations, stuff like that.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: But it was essentially one of the biggest fights in Britain in the 80s.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: And it was an absolute war.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what defines it.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: There's obviously a lot less the racial element now,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: but it's sort of my guy from this area is going to You know,
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: beat your guy from over there.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: And who really cares about someone from California?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: Who cares?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: He's not here.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's that sort of thing.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: And you should watch Cader against Christie as well, because it was just ridiculous.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think both went down three or four times for the British title.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what British boxing is, really.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: And if you can grab sort of a world title and keep doing that,
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, look at what Anthony Kakashi's doing.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good point.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's not, he doesn't really exist in the world-class boxing.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: But he's got a world title and he's fighting Brits and Josh Warrington did it.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: He was fighting guys,
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: Carl Frampton's who like,
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: some of them are like legitimate world-class fighters like the Carl Frampton's,
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: but they're still fighting guys like Scott Bick and not Rigondeau.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's that, and it's Josh Warrington's done it.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of Kell Brook, Amir Khan didn't do it until too late, but was that kind of that thing?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was weird though because Khan's a unique case because of what he did in
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: the Olympics at that age and what him and Audley Harrison did for the funding of
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: the British amateur boxing team.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: The team before them was basically,
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: well, can you afford your own flight over to the Olympics basically?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: And Aldi Harrison won gold in 2000.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: Amir Khan goes out in 2004.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Winsilver.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: And turns into a megastar after that.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then you look at what happened in LA.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: You had guys like James DeGale,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: David Price didn't really work out for, but guys like Billy Joe Saunders around.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then the Home Olympics in 2012 was just kicked off a massive boom
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: with guys like Josh Roy, Josh Taylor.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, that sort of Frankie Gavin, right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: Frankie Gavin.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: That sort of scene, sort of 08 to 12.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: So the first fight I remember watching,
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: I've been told I watched stuff before that, but I've got no memory.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: There was one moment.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was David Haymark versus Mormac.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's the first fight I can remember.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I can only remember when Hay got dropped.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: I was sitting there watching it with my dad.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: I was on the floor.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: I was on the floor.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: I was about six or seven.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: I was sat on the floor because I was weird.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: And my dad, I remember, he was like, oh my God, hey, he's been dropped.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: He was shouting, get up, get up, get up.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the first fight I remember watching.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then sort of from that era, it was all the British fighters around sort of after that.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: So you're sort of, you're Frankie Gavins, you're Kevin Mitchell.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: Kevin Mitchell was another one with a massive football for loving.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: Chisora, your Fury, your guys like Kell Brook.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: That sort of era is what
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: grew up on a little bit.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: The way I see Ben versus Ryan Garcia is,
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: and you push back at me because you probably see him more.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Most people think it's easy to hit Ryan Garcia with a right hand.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think he baits you to throw the right hand,
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: but all of his stuff comes off a left hook off the right hand.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: So if you look at when Dev was having success,
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Dev was touch and touch and then he felt comfortable.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I can hit him with the right and then he gets clipped.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: You look at Duarte,
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Duarte's having success, kind of starts throwing that right hand, gets clipped.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: To me, the right hand in this fight,
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: if Ben starts throwing a lot of right hands,
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's going to be a short, short night because it's going to be hand speed.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: People are talking about this weight cut, but that's window dressing.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: There might be something there.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: I just see a huge talent gap and a huge boxing intelligence gap
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: where I don't even think the weight cut is the issue.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think Ben is going to understand the traps Garcia's laying.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's a total mismatch.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: Ben isn't coordinated.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: His feet aren't good.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: His defense is woeful.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he's not very good.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: He's not a well-level fighter.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: He would be a fun domestic-level fighter if he didn't have the name.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: And he's done well, considering where he started, whether that's...
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: Enhanced or not, he has done well.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: He's improved, but he's nowhere near a level of Garcia.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: And with the talk about Garcia's weight cut as well,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: you know, it's over four years since Ben made 147.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: Over four years.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a long time.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's not normal.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: And that male, that, you know, there was...
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: After the test,
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: there were allegations that he might have been having some help making 147 as well.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: So you never know.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: We'll never know.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: But like four years is a big gap in boxing, right?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: And making championship weight, I've seen it with my own eyes when guys go from 33 to 30.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: There's a real fear.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: At least to me,
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: watching a fighter I care about where they're not fully sure they're going
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: to come back from the cut.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've ever seen that up close,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: but it's like there's this fear that like, OK, I can do it at this catch weight.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: But when I drain myself, am I really coming back the next day?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: And you just see this sort of.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: The soul sort of leave them a little bit over that last sort of half a pound or whatever.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: You see the sort of last bit straying out of them and it's not good.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, Ben didn't make 150 against Probrey properly.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't like from people that were around him.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: That was a bad, bad weight cut and that was 150.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: There's an extra three rounds to go.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think he'll make it.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: He's never missed weight, I don't think.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's a pro at this stuff.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think he can meet the weight.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: The problem with him is I think he's tough.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think he works really hard.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Probably a cool hang, right?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like kind of a rich guy who's a cool hang.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: The problem is, is just there's a talent component issue.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: It'll be a tough cut and there's a talent component and he's not particularly big,
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: which is a weird sort of paradox when you're sort of It's almost like he's put
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: the weight on in the wrong areas.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: He wants to look like this big muscular guy and it's not conducive to being good at boxing.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, the speed is the big thing.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: I go through phases of what I think is the most important thing.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: For a while it was volume.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: But man, speed might be the most important aspect of boxing.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: Hand speed.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: And when sort of...
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: The only way Conor knows how to fight is to put his hands up and run forward
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: and wing sort of big shots in.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: And if Garcia can see him coming in,
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: fire off that with his hand speed, it's going to be a short night.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: I don't really think it's a competitive fight.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: And if Garcia...
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: I know you can't really rely on Garcia,
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: but if he is switched on, it shouldn't be more than three or four rounds, really.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Let's switch over to Jai Appetia.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: I quite like him.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: This is a mess of a fight week.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: It looks like the fight's going to happen with Noel McKillian.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: There was a cease and assist earlier this week with McKillian's promoter, Don King.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: It just feels like Appetia is potentially one of the best guys in the world.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: In every fight, we're not talking about his talent.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about other things that And he's like, you said this best to me once.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: He looks really special at times and then he looks really vulnerable.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: So like, he's gonna get a little overrated at times with how good he looks.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: is this,
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: there shouldn't,
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: this shouldn't be a competitive fight in my mind,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: but it feels like he's playing with fire with so many outside distractions
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: that inevitably there's going to be a letdown.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it is just ridiculous that Don King's still doing this.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, I just don't...
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think Opatia and...
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: There's sort of multiple reasons for it, for this mess of a career.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, him and his team have made some pretty bad decisions.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: He is the guinea pig for Zufa Boxing,
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: which means he's going to be put in these weird positions legally
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: with certain sanctioning bullies, obviously.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: Then you do...
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: He is a really good fighter.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's stamina issues, maybe.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: Sort of the only time he's really been pushed in fights in the second half of
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: the two breeders fights and he didn't look good in them in the second half.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think maybe he's a little bit of an overrated puncher.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think he can punch, he's a good puncher, but, um, I don't think he's like an O'Neill Bell.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's what,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: that type of Corey's weight power or a Gasiev,
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: um, But yeah, he's a really, really good fighter.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think he should win, but I think Michaelian might.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Michaelian's a very good spoiler,
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: and he is a really, really good spoiler, like a well-leveled spoiler.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: He did it against Breeders back in the day.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: He did it against, um, what was his name?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Polish fighter, right?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Kristoff, I can never say his name.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: He's, um, bald, and he beat a Chechen guy.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, beat a Chechen guy in Russia once,
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: and I remember he got dropped in that fight and came back.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, And he was the interim bridgeweight champion with the WBC a couple of years ago as well.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's weird I remember.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, is the bridgeweight still going?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: With the WBC.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: Who's our current bridgeweight champion?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think we need an update.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: Only I know this, but Kevin Lorena has just lost his time to Riyad Meri in Belgium.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: Riyad Meri had one of the worst fights I've ever seen against Jared Anderson.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: that was, did he, did he parlay that Jared Anderson fight into his Bridgerweight bout?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I think he had one in between,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: but yeah, Lorena, um,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: was coming off the loss to Akoli,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: not a terrible fit, but still had the Bridgerweight belt and then went into that.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: And, um, yeah, I mean, that's just amazing.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing that you can cite that.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, to me, Apatai is like probably in his prime.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: He needs his career-defining fights in the next two fights.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like,
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: I get Noel is a good fighter,
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: but it's like this just, it's not quite good enough for me.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like,
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Noel kind of reminds me of Sam Solomon,
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: where it's like on any given night,
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: he can just,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: like you said,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: world-class spoiler,
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: on any given night,
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: he can make you lose a couple hundred thousand dollars on your paycheck.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it just,
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: it feels like Apatai is really rolling the dice with like high risk,
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: not the greatest legacy reward fights lately.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is the, this is the only one that's really had high risk though.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: If you really think about it.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't like Glanton because Glanton, Glanton hits hard and he's, he's absolutely crazy.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't mind that fight either, but it's like, I didn't think Glanton would win it.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like Glanton's a,
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: Sort of a really tough guy,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: strong come forward,
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: but he was never going to win that fight, Glanzen, unless something weird happened.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it's weird.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: This is such a weird fight.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: I get that, like,
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: McAvion was the WBC champion,
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: stroke is,
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: stroke won't be, stroke whatever Mauricio decides to do tomorrow or whenever.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: But it's looking like that fight's going to go to Sislak against Benavidez, that belt.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: And Opetai won't get it, so there's no sort of unification there.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, it's like, this is by far the biggest platform Opetai's going to be on.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: And he's in against a tough guy who nobody really knows,
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: who's probably going to lose on points,
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: but he's going to make Opetai look pretty bad in there, I think.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: This is the thing with matchmaking, it's like,
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: He might be a good fighter, but he's going to make you look really, really bad.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: He's not going to be a war where everyone goes, oh my God, I've got to see him again.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to be a lot of fainting,
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: a lot of moving, a lot of smothering,
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: which is what he's built a career
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: on.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's so frustrating, like you say.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: He hasn't really been in the fight that I've really been excited for since
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: the second British one.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: That was, what, two and a half years ago?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it felt like 2025 should have been his year.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: And he kind of took a lateral step back.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then with Zufa, you're like, okay, he's the guy they're going to build around.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: And the minute they got Shakur and Conor Benn,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: it feels like he's on the back burner once again,
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: that he's not the marquee Zufa boxer.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: And this is...
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to link this to something that you'll like, actually.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: But there was an opportunity.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: The fight he fought with Blanton...
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: It was either the weekend before or the weekend after.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: The NRL,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: which is sort of a huge rugby competition in Australia,
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: they have a round of games in Vegas to start their season.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: And it was either the weekend before or the weekend after.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, why haven't they done that?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: Why haven't they gone that weekend?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: Why haven't they gone to the NRL game and said,
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: there's this Australian monster that's fighting in Vegas, come watch him.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just sort of decisions like that for an extended period of time that have compounded.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, not to sort of be disparaging towards the Australians,
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: but they can make anyone a pay-per-view star.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_03: They can make former NRL player Big Nasty an NRL star.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: A pay-per-view star, sorry.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know I love Big Nasty, bro.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I do.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: The deep water's king.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's who I want Moses to prove that he can.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's either Dave.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Dave Allen versus Big Nasty is my dream fight,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: with with wrestling Matt Walls,
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: because you got to make sure that the guys don't fall out of the ring.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Dave Allen.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: What is Dave Allen get a cage match?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's too dangerous to be in there.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to do the rematch with him and Thomas Carty inside the cage, the hell in the cell.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, Dave Allen.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Dave Allen.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that fight was just basically you hit him on the side of the head
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: and Thomas Carty went out, right?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: And now Thomas Carty is going to get a rematch.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I was talking about this.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: This is a slight change of subject,
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: but I know you've been talking about sort of how boxing is right now
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: and it's not particularly brilliant.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's bad.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's bad.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: so someone said to me,
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: I can't remember who it was,
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: it was last year,
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: and he said the biggest indicator of boxing being in recession is sort of
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: the pre-pandemic Dave Allen beating the current Dave Allen, which was Johnny Fisher.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: And it's sort of like we can't even get a new and improved Dave Allen to beat
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: the old Dave Allen sort of thing.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: Sort of.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: And that's sort of it, isn't it?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's where we are.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's just, it doesn't feel like those matchups are getting made.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: On this undercard, I got a couple that I circled that I really like.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious your thoughts on these.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Magsayo versus Andreas Cortez.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: I lean Cortez in this fight, but I think it's good.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: My guy Mazzy, the heavyweight, he's fighting there.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: Ramirez versus Alexis Rocha is sneaky good.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: And Vlad Panin versus Dakota Linger.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm on Lukie Island.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think that could be an upset.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Vlad's gotten some losses to guys that aren't spectacular,
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: but that's kind of like what I'm looking at.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Pablo Rubio, I remember from the club scene, don't know his opponent.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's a 19 year old Mexican.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm probably going to watch that closer than I'm going to watch the main card,
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: to be honest, like those fights.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: I agree with you on Cortez against Max.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think Cortez is a,
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: Pretty bad style for Magsaya.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: Magsaya hasn't really been
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: his best since Figueroa, really.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think that might have taken a bit out of him.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think Cortez is a little bit fresher and probably the more well-rounded guy.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think that's out of the line to say that.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: The heavyweight, who I can't pronounce his name.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: We call him Mazzy.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know he used to be a Super
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Bowl to it?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: I do know that, and I know he's a supporter of my YouTube channel.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: He's on live streams, which is always random.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's crazy.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he's like if Fundora gained weight.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's basically like he was a Fundora-like figure, and then he just put on weight.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: I do like him, though.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's interesting.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: I don't quite know where I'd place him.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know where he's going to go,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: but he's an interesting sort of heavyweight, and he's weird, and he's wiry.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: I do like a weird heavyweight prospect, especially Americans.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: At this point, I like prospects because we just don't have that many of them.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and not a lot of them are getting...
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: TV slots, but that's another issue.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, Rocha-Ramirez, that's a weird fight.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think Rocha wins it, but that's a weird fight.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: That screams to me sort of like a Golden Boy headliner,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: which I suppose it is a Golden Boy fight because they've got the slot on the card,
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: but sort of in California,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: sort of you can do a decent size arena in California and get your prospects out on
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: the undercard.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: But it is weird.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what's He's Ramirez.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: He hasn't forced into any, has he?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: And he did an interview with me where he said he wanted to be back.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, I've covered most of Ramirez's career live.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: You could have told me he fought Alexis Rocha and I probably would have believed you.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like this fight's happened before.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of those.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, And yeah, Rocha, he hasn't really done much since the war with Raul Carrillo, has he?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I just
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: think this is like,
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Ramirez probably wins if he still has something,
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: because it just seems like he was the better fighter,
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: he might be a little smaller,
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: but like,
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: he looked so bad against Haney,
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think anyone feels comfortable fully going out there,
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: because there's the chance that he shows up and the engine doesn't turn on.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and even before that,
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: he lost to Barbosa in a fight, I thought he'd Win quite comfortably.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: I've just
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: got a weird feeling about Rocha.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: Again, that Santian fight,
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: it's a good fight,
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: but there's a lot of questions and you're not confident that any are going to go on
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: to do great things, if that makes sense.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, those are my favorite fights where it's almost like you're fighting off
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: a gatekeeper spot rather than you're going somewhere else.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you don't want to go somewhere else.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want to get fired.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Don't get fired, bro.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Job.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Final thing, because we're down to our last six minutes.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Pro Box TV has a pretty good card.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: I love Francis Scarborough Jr. versus Dominic Valle.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's outstanding.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think the main event's interesting.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Giovanni versus Abbas Barrao.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what to make of Giovanni because I think he's a boxer
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: who changed his identity to a pressure fighter and he's had mixed success with it.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: He beat Rocha, obviously, but, you know, what stands out to you on this?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: I like the main event.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: I like it for Burrell.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: I think Burrell wins it, but obviously Luis Alberto Lopez coming back, that's weird.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: You don't really know what to say about that.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like, there was the issue with the...
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: With what happened after the Leo fight, I don't really know.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: I remember, I think I broke that story.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was like I talked to the manager and he just casually told me that he had
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: a mild brain bleed or something
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: to an extent.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I guess he's okay.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: I know California are quite strict.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well, he's also crazy.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: He's a crazy dude.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: So normally when I hear something like this, I'd be like, oh man, that's bad.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: But it's also like with Venato, you're like, well, this guy is really crazy.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, I feel less scared around that.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Back in the day,
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: I remember saying a lot, again,
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: the British boxing bubble when he fought Isaac Lowe and to a lesser extent,
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: Josh Warrington.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: But I was like, he started out as a betting underdog against both.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I was telling everyone, you've got a bit on this Mexican kid.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: Because I've seen the Andy Benson fight and stuff like that.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: And he lost to Ruben Villa.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, yeah, he's going to just walk through Isaac Lowe.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, he is mad.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: I love him.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: I love his style.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: I used to love watching him back in the day.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: Fearless.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: But again, I don't really know where he's going to go.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: What's he going to do?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: it's one of those,
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: it's like, I guess there is a plan, but I'd be interested to see what it is.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: Is it 130?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: Is it...
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's 30.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: My friends are in the team.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: But we got about four minutes left.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: I want to get you on Valle Scarborough.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: I like Scarborough.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: Scarborough Nation.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Not a lot of potheads in Scarborough Nation.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: You might get a job.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: Might meet a lawyer or a doctor.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think...
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think...
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think he's great defensively.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: Dare I say it?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: I just, I favor Scarborough.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: I've got a figure.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not confident, confident, but yeah.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just looking for the card now.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: Julian Montalvo's on it as well.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: Very good buyer.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: Very good buyer.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to say gatekeeper,
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: but it's like,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: you want to be a top notch fighter in Vegas and you're saying you can get signed.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: You're around his weight.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: Have fun sparring him.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've heard the stories.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_03: I've heard the stories from guys out there.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: Herbert Contesau as well, who knocked out Alexander Kishniak in Tokyo, the Brazilian.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what he's really doing with his career.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I think it's a decent little show.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: I like a bash for how to win the main event.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think the winner of the main event is probably going to Go into sort of
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: a vacant title fight next year, maybe an interim.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_03: It sort of makes sense.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: The winner of that goes into a fight of significance.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I like the main event and a couple of the fights in there.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's a good card.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Tokers, you're one of my favorite people in boxing.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: We can get super nerdy.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: You kind of teach me a ton of stuff that I need to learn.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Where can people find you?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a personal question.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: I've been wanting to hear the Championship Rounds podcast for a while.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: When's it coming back, bro?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly, I don't know.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: It might be back soon.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: You might be changing it up a little bit.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's a lot of frustration with boxing at the moment.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: Life gets in the way sometimes.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're bringing it back the next few months, changing it up a little bit.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're going to do more history stuff and more Sort of watching old fights
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: and stuff like that.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's sometimes hard to do a weekly show about modern boxing.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me about it.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I appreciate the kind words.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, you can find me mainly on Twitter.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: But if we are coming back, which we probably will at some point, we'll be there.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it was sort of It's a weird time in boxing, man.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's a weird, weird, weird time.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think we've discussed it before.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's a strange, strange time.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we'll finish with that.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: If you do a career profile, my first pick, Big Nasty.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Get in on him early.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, get in on him early, bro.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, we love Big Nasty.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: I love Big Nasty too.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: Deep waters in a four-round fight.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm taking him to deep waters, bro.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, it's Lukie here.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry that the audio is bad.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing this in a rush while I'm doing other things with my personal life.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to let you know that the next guest is Joseph Haran.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: He is a really, really interesting guy who studied under Don Chargin, a Hall of Fame promoter.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Great stories, but in this podcast, he gives out some numbers.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: We cannot fully verify those numbers and...
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: We just want to state that those are just strictly his numbers
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: and they're not affiliated with our podcast.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: And if people are going to aggregate it or source it, you know, just leave it to him.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe just say that.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, here is that podcast.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: What's up, everybody?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's your good friend, Lukie,
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: and I am back with a crazy video camera and I'm on with one of my good,
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: good friends, Joseph Heron.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: Did I say that right, Joseph?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron, very good, man.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's funny.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's German in nature, but they changed the spelling of it.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: It means gentleman in German, meine Herren, right?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so they just changed the spelling when they migrated to America.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's H-E-R-R-O-N.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: Very good.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: You certainly are a gentleman, and there's some topics I want to get on.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: Multiple topics.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: I got at least three or four.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: The first one being is like,
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: obviously you had a good relationship,
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: a great relationship with Don Chargin,
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: War A Week Chargin,
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: one of the people that really towards the end of his career,
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: I snuck in there and learned some stuff from Don.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: Not enough, but I snuck in and kind of got from that old school.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm curious your perspective because you always talk about putting butts
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: in seats and this is like the music industry and no fight really happens.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: Makes me feel old or embodies that than Ryan Garcia versus Connor Ben
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: because I don't think it stands up as a consequential world-class fight,
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: at least to me.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's more so an entertainment fight.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm curious from your perspective,
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: is this a compelling matchup for the casual fans or is this just kind
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: of put together for this weekend?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think of this matchup and talk me through it?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: In my opinion,
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: first of all,
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: let's just give that distinction and that credit to Mauricio Suleiman, right?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: And his dad, the late great Jose.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Jose was one of the greatest.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: He was such a great guy.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: And he received so much grief from all the disgruntled fans and critics.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: But he was a great guy.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: And Mauricio is the nicest guy you'll meet in this business.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you know that, Lukie.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a world title fight in one of the most important divisions in boxing.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, it should be heralded as a big time event.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: But here's where Zufa and Turkey El El Sheik are showing their true colors
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: and showing their inexperience in this business.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because like the great Don Chargin, and once again, my channel is War A Week Boxing.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's an homage to my mentor, Don Chargan.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so he always taught me, Joseph,
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: and I'll try to do my best impression,
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Joseph,
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: you know, a hot matchup isn't a hot fight unless it's in the right venue.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: And how true it is, because this fight should be in London.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: It does not, it shouldn't be in Vegas.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Zufa, though,
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: who was signed and is the lead promoter for this event,
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: and they're the promoter of now Conor Benn, and they're based out of Vegas.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: But this fight should be in Tottenham Hotspur, London, England.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's where it should be.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because think of,
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: this is why they've, and I've spoken with so many third-party ticket distributors.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they tell me that they're having to slash prices on these tickets because it's not moving.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: And trust me,
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Zufa's going to have to pay for the place in order to fill it up because they have
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: a contract now with the T-Mobile Arena, right?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is why I'm telling you that just based on what Don taught me,
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: this is in the wrong city, wrong country, right?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because Conor Benn is a big-time attraction in England, right?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: He's the son of a legend.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: But who knows that here?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Even the diehard fans, who even recognizes that here and appreciates that?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: No one.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: He's a relative unknown.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: I guarantee you he could walk down the strip and no one would even recognize him,
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: even though he's in the headliner, right?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: in Vegas, Ryan Garcia is the only recognized fighter in this equation.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: And on his strength alone, he can't fill up the T-Mobile arena.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: And because most fans,
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: even diehards in America,
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: aren't that familiar with Conor Benn, they don't recognize this as a big-time fight.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: And this is not good.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: But it just...
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Puts a spotlight on the difference in culture.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because right now,
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: globally,
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: because boxing is a global sport,
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: it just puts an emphasis on how much healthier the UK market is compared to
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: the US market.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you look at the population, like, I'll give you an example.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: My brother, Thomas Treiber, he's the ring announcer for Queensberry Promotions, right?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thomas Treiber?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, ring announcer.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my that that's my brother, man.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: And he even says, you know, it's funny.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: I will do my best.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Joe, when I come back to San Antonio, that that's where I'm from.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: when I come back,
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: fly back into town,
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'll go to the gym, I'll go to a restaurant and no one recognizes me.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: But when I go back over to the UK to call a fight like Moses E.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: Talma versus Philip Bergovich, I get mobbed like a celebrity.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's the difference in culture.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's what a big pastime
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: the fight game is overseas compared to here.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, think about this.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: Here's your litmus test.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: How many mainstream outlets do Media outlets are covering this fight.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think on a deeper level,
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: because you were going into what I was going to talk about,
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: is how many mainstream outlets are employing boxing writers full time?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it just seems like it's not a relevant thing for big corporations currently
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: to invest in.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I was going to piggyback on that to say, what are the big fights in the U.S. currently?
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because it feels like the U.S. market has kind of hit a standstill currently.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're right on the money, Lukie.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: And once again, man,
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: it's a testament to how much you know about the business of boxing
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: and your experience dealing with all these for voters and fighters.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the problem.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got an in and look at Turkey All Sheik, Dana White.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're both smart men, very accomplished, very intelligent.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a difference, Lukie, and you know this.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's a difference in IQ in life and experience and money.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a completely different ballgame when you're talking about boxing IQ
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: in terms of business as well as what goes on in the ring.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, Turkey All Chic, with all due respect, I love his passion.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love his appreciation for the fight game.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: But These are two novices jumping into the business.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is why they're making so many mistakes right now.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we can go into that later.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I can highlight every single mistake they're making.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's almost like they're setting themselves up for failure.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: But when you look at Turkey Yellow Chic and you look at Dana White,
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: you They have no idea what they're doing.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what, see, like,
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: I thought Turkey Al-Sheik,
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: when he first hired Frank Warren to be his lead promoter,
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: I thought he was going to learn the fight game from the Hall of Famer, Frank Warren.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: No one knows this game better than Frank Warren.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: He's been through it all.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: But then he cuts him and then hires Eddie Hearn.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Someone who's still learning on the job, but talks a good game.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, it, it, it's almost shocking, man.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's, it's like you,
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: they've got,
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't,
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know where to begin, Luke,
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: because let me add some questions here because I want to talk through some things.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, there's many different directions to go,
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: but I think one thing that actually readers in my newsletter wanted you
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: to specifically come on because they enjoy your opinion
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's something I've kind of grappled with is no matter your political stance,
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: Dana White is associated with kind of a modern Trump conservative movement.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I do think it's unique and we might see some backlash from fight fans that are liberal.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'm from California, so I think about these things.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: And we've never really seen a promoter as a political entity.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm kind of curious to get your thoughts on that
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: because normally boxing promoters are – No opinion on issues, really.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just putting on fights.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: And this is kind of a unique figure.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: And look, most fight fans have bought into the propaganda where, oh, I hate Dana Wyatt.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: He's against the Muhammad Ali Act.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: But you know as well as I, it's all about the fighter.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: This business is all about the fighters, right?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, quite a few fighters who are signed to Zufa.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so you tell me,
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: have you heard any negative feedback from Zufa thus far from the fighters
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: that you know and are working with?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no,
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: but I think that the people that would be cautionary would be like,
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_02: it's probably not going to be this era.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a big corporation.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_02: But so far, most people are happy.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: We've seen early cases like Erdson Garcia, who got cut after one loss.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: And like some guys are getting cut kind of early.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that what we're seeing is Zufa is kind of shaking up the industry
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: because they have a lot of money and they're making fights.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, here's the primary reason.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go back, Lukie, right?
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: Let's find out and discover, because most people don't even realize this.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let's put our finger on and ask ourselves,
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: why did Turkey El Shik feel like The need to reach out to someone who for
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: the past two decades has been interested in the demise of boxing.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: Why would he reach out to him to try and revive the sport in the American market?
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when you when you when you figure out why,
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: then everything else starts to come together.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, think about this, Lukie.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Think about Turkey El-Sheik.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: He came into this business wide-eyed, right?
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: And he had an unlimited pocketbook.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he just wanted to put together the greatest or the best fights possible.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: For the past two and a half, three years, he's done that.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen great matchups.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: Matchups and cards that have been entertaining from top to bottom that
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: And he's forced,
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: almost galvanized these promoters that never worked with each other.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: He forced them to work together because he was the one who was footing the bill.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: And like,
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: would you have ever thought that you would have seen a five versus five
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: between Eddie Hearn and Frank Warren before Turkey All-is-Sheik's involvement?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, and that was the gimmick of the fight card, right?
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, oh my God, these guys are working together.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: And what did that do, though, to move the needle in the American market?
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my honest opinion?
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure American fans really understood what it was.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so, Turkey Al-Sheik has spent millions of Of dollars,
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: putting together the best because let's just be honest.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: And from what everyone is seller and Queensberry,
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: what they've told me is that,
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: look, he's just a huge fan with a lot of money and he wants to help.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: OK, and so here's where he broke the cardinal promotional rule.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: Don Chargan's Promotions 101.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do not pay out inflated purses.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because it never ends well for the health of the sports.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: And why?
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you pay fighters well above their market value,
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: sometimes in some cases five times more,
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: then it makes it virtually impossible to put together the best fights after that.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because if they grow accustomed to receiving inflated purses, millions of For soft touches.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: So how much do you think they're going to expect and demand when
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: a real challenge is presented to them?
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: And also,
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: they don't have that sense of urgency to come back in the ring in case in point
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: because of Val Heyman and the Canelo market value.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: How much did Jermell Charlo receive for his fight with Canelo?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: That Well,
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be nice right here,
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm just going to say it was a disappointing effort.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: It looked like he was trying to survive, not to win.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: How much do you think he got paid for that fight?
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like probably enough to retire would be my guess.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_02: Take a guess.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: Pick a number.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: I would say $5.2 million when it was all said and done.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: He got paid gross.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now, once again, you're speaking on net, but he got paid gross, and I know this to be true.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: Ten million dollars to fight Canelo.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: When is when is the last time he's fought?
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: That fight.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's the problem.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's why.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: And most promoters,
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: when they first get into and when they first try to break into
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: a market like Eddie Hearn made the same mistake when he was breaking into
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: the American market.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: He paid Mikey Garcia $7 million to fight Josecito Lopez.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: He paid Chavez Jr. almost $10 million to fight Danny Jacobs.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is the mistake you make when you're trying to attract talent.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're entering a new market and you're paying out inflated purses just to just to attract them.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: But they're falling into a trap because it never ends well.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're setting that dangerous precedent.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: So once you start paying out that kind of money,
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: they grow to expect it,
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: even if it exceeds their market value, even if they don't sell tickets.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's the problem that Dimitri Bevel is facing now.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, think about this.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: He and Dimitri,
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: the reason why Bevel and Baturbi have never materialized is Either with top rank
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: on ESPN or anywhere else.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or Matchroom.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: Also, it's because both guys were elite level fighters.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: But they couldn't sell out my living room on a Saturday night.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm being nice.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so you have the problem where,
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: wait a minute,
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: this is a fight that deserves life changing money because of their skill set
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: and their level.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is the best of the best at $175,000.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: But what it boils down to is what determines your purse?
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: Your ability to sell tickets and your ability to draw ratings.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's what determines your market value.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: The demand.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: Once again,
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: acknowledging what Don always taught me,
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: acknowledging what The real bosses of boxing determine your market value.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's determined by demand.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you have two relative unknowns fighting outside of their home countries.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the biggest fight at 175, but it doesn't create that kind of demand.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: So how much do they deserve to get paid?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's the quandary.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in order to see that fight,
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: Turkey All Chic, he said, you know what, I don't care.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to pay both guys $10 million because as a fan, that's what I feel they deserve.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he skewed the marketplace, especially at 175.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: How active have both fighters been since their second fight?
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's the problem.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: Don warned me about this and he taught me that.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so once again, guys, here's,
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: everyone comes into this business,
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: Lukie, and you know this, thinking that they can reinvent the wheel.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: But the rules of boxing, promotion, and management are finite.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: And when you try to do something different,
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: it's going to cost you thousands,
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: And in the case of Turkey Al-Sheik, It's cost him millions.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: And over the course of two and a half years,
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: you could say hundreds of millions of dollars,
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: and he hasn't seen a return on his investment.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're talking about Turkey al-Sheikh, not Saudi money, but his private holdings.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so understanding that it's become a fringe pastime in the American market,
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's looking at all of these promoters,
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: Golden Boy,
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: Matchroom,
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: Top Rank, PBC,
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: and he's like,
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: none of these guys,
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: they've all worn out their welcome
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: relative to mainstream platforms in the USA.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: So there are no promoters currently involved.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: Longstanding promoters who have any kind of mainstream influence currently.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: Except, let's look at the guy who is the most mainstream influential in combat sports.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's Dana White.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, he was like, I'm never.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: And let's just be honest.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to drop the news on your platform, right?
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: On your show.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: DAZN.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: DAZN.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: Think about this and you're going to be shocked when I give you the actual answer.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you had to guess how many subscribers would you say DAZN has in
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: the American market currently?
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: 300,000.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's more than that.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks be to God.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's 422,000.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now think about that.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're almost about to lose Canelo as the biggest attraction in North America.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: Who is his heir apparent?
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_00: Who is ready to take on that mantle?
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's impossible to nurture and cultivate a big time mainstream attraction
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: on his own because no one sees it.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, it goes to the age old adage.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, did it actually happen?
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so Turkey Al-Sheik was at his wits end.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I have no idea.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm spending all this money.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm putting together the best fights in boxing that the best matchups we've seen
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: over 10, 15 years, 20 years.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't even move the needle in the American market.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: How what's wrong?
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: What's wrong with this equation?
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it was introduced to him and saying that, look,
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: DAZN doesn't have that kind of healthy outreach to a larger mainstream
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: and casual demographic.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: We need to put our product on a larger
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: outreach,
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: a larger platform that has the kind of outreach that will expose the product to
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: a larger mainstream and casual demographic.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, well, none of these promoters, they've worn out their welcome.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: Al Heyman was kicked off Fox, Showtime.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: Bob Arum, the legend, was just kicked off of ESPN.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: Golden Boy doesn't have any kind of
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: influence on the mainstream market.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: So who do I turn to?
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: Out of necessity, he reached out to Dana White.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: So like it or not,
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: Dana White has become boxing's Obi-Wan Kenobi,
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: our only hope, in reaching a larger mainstream and casual demographic.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's why Turkey Al-Sheik wants him to be the lead promoter on all
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: of these big-time events and all of the existing veteran promoters.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like Eddie Hearn,
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: they're bellyaching currently saying,
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: you know what,
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: he doesn't deserve to promote this event like Tyson Fury versus Anthony Joshua.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: And Turkey Al-Sheik is saying, I don't care.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: He is the reason why Netflix is interested.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: And he's the reason why Ryan Garcia versus Conor Benn is going to be featured
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: on Paramount Plus that has a subscriber base of over 75.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is it 70 million?
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 70 million subscribers worldwide.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: Unless you can produce that kind of outreach,
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have no choice but to work with Dana White and Zufa Boxing.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully that makes sense to you guys.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: Turkey Yellow Peak is working with Dana White out of necessity.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that answers a lot of questions.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_02: And also that like we don't we can't present that as fact.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's you looking at it and observing and your belief of how it is.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_02: And because we haven't interviewed them and so forth and so on.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_02: My question, though, also is, OK, Dana White entering.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think part of like you spoke to is Dana White.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_02: Working with this entity, Zufa Boxing, part of it's the celebrity.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: What we've seen in the last three years is prospects and up and comers have gone to
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: the back burner and big names have gotten more opportunities and Dana White's
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: a really big name.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's part of it.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm curious just to kind of go in on that.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_02: Is there any concern that boxing just becomes a very conservative sport and that,
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_02: like the UFC,
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_02: more and more liberal people who might have liked boxing,
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_02: if Dana White were to run it in his ties to Trump, that they would move away.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: I understand what you're saying.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: You think he's such a polarized figure.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's very...
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: That he's going to turn off 50% of the population from appreciating
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: or even viewing boxing.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it'd even be that big,
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_02: but I think that it's like Trump is a figure where I think that nobody sits in
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_02: the middle on him.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_02: You either like him or dislike him.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that's true.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_02: If you come into boxing being so closely associated with someone like that,
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_02: I just feel like we're already a sport that doesn't have a huge base.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it feels
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_02: like that's a dangerous move.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because as you said, there's only so many people that care about boxing.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_02: These press conferences are getting smaller.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: The media days are getting smaller.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: The media weeks are getting smaller.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_02: What's the media week for this fight been?
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's basically been no...
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_02: Live streaming until tonight.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very small, big fight week.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_02: There's not a lot of beats to get us excited.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I say that to say,
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_02: I do feel like Dana White is someone that people somewhat associate,
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_02: if not associate with Trump.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's worth mentioning that there are people that might move on from
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_02: the sport if he's the face of it.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: I understand your concern and I appreciate your thoughts and you've thought deeply
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_00: about this,
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: but understanding the business of this and understanding where we have been
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: and
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: where we were and where we have been since
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: the Mayweather-Packow debacle 10 years ago, over 10 years ago, right?
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: Since then, we've been limping on Within the sports community.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: And Dana White is here to try and help, not hinder.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I promise you,
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: we can't fall any further than we already are.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: And this is even before Dana White's involvement.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: So honestly, this should be the least of your concerns.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because once again, Dana White...
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because of his success with UFC.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if this has anything to do with his affiliation with UFC.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I can promise you, he's the least of our concerns when it comes to the health of the sport.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because we have,
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: as I explained to some of the people at DAZN,
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: our three biggest obstacles to overcome today.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_00: Talking about the business of boxing and the health of the sport moving forward,
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_00: the three biggest obstacles that we have to overcome.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_00: One, piracy.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_00: We still have no answer to the piracy issue.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now think about this.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_00: What was that number that I just gave you for DAZN?
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: 422,000 subscribers.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: They have 17 million, over 17 million subscribers worldwide.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_00: And in their biggest potential market, they only have 422,000.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_00: And they are working with every major promoter.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's almost an indictment.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's like other networks,
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: mainstream networks,
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_00: are looking at that and saying,
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: wait a minute,
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_00: you mean to tell me you're working with everyone and have the capability
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: of putting together every great matchup in boxing,
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_00: yet you can only attract 400,000 subscribers in a market that has
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_00: over 360 million inhabitants?
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's not good.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is, and it's because of piracy.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know as well as I do,
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_00: there are more than 400,000 diehard fans in the American market.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_00: You see them on social media all the time.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's been a loss of trust in boxing making the best fights.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think people's spirits have been broken also.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean,
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_02: piracy I think is an issue,
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_02: but I also feel like people just have become cynical and And don't believe that
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_02: the best fights will occur.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, look,
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_00: if they've been fans for the past two and a half years,
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_00: they shouldn't because we've seen now compare this to the past 15 years prior.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, my goodness.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen like superb matchups like all like there have been certain Turkey LLC
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: Saudi cards,
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: Riyadh season cards that That have featured multiple headlining bouts
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_00: on just one card.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_00: Look at the one last year that featured David Benavidez and Anthony Yard.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: Devin Haney versus Brian Norman Jr. Bam Rodriguez.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that fight card alone in November.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_00: That was one of the best cards I've ever seen.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been watching boxing for over 50 years.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been in this business for over 30.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_00: Take a guess now.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here's the problem.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_00: This puts a spotlight on piracy.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now, take a guess how good those sales were.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: What would you project their pay-per-view sales would be?
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm not even qualified to guess, you know.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you had to take a guess, and once again, this will educate you on how unhealthy...
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_00: The pay-per-view market is today.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_02: I would just say low would be my guess.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: It only did 77,000 purchases.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now think about what I just stated.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_00: That was a stack card.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_00: You can't complain about the undercard on that one.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_00: It had headliners on the undercard.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was stacked, and that was just last November.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Only 77,000.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And considering how much money Turkey Elul Sheik had to pay out,
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: that's a dismal failure financially.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why he reached out to, it was events like that.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then, like, think about the New York Times or the Times Square event, right?
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then the following day, Canelo Alvarez versus William Scull, that, ugh.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_00: That, well, let's just be nice, a lackluster affair, right?
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_00: In consecutive days, he spent tens of millions of dollars to create those two fight cards.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And how did they play out?
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_00: So not only do you have piracy in which the overwhelming majority
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: of diehard fans are stealing the product,
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a huge problem moving forward because the demographic that promoters
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: and networks could always rely on are now stealing the product,
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_00: illegally streaming it for free.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And statistics have proven that.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because they use to track everything.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_00: They use the same technology.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_00: That they use to track music, right?
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it's called Museo, the tracking service.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And they use that for pay-per-views to see how many people are stealing the product
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_00: and how many people are buying it.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_00: For example,
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_00: go back to...
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember that huge promotion that they had with Deontay Wilder versus...
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Tyson Fury before the second fight.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_00: They made that deal.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_00: PBC in top rank made that deal with Fox and ESPN to put together those two fights.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Wilder Fury 2 and 3.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember that?
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, it was a big event.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_00: That was right before COVID, the second fight, right?
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was there.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Very good.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so...
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember the promotion for that event?
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was a big deal.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_02: It was like genuinely a big deal.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was a huge deal.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I wrote an article about it on FightSaga.com way back in the day.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote an article stating that this fight card has the feel of a classic heavyweight matchup.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I haven't felt this way since covering Lennox Lewis versus Evander Holyfield 2.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_00: It had that big time heavyweight fight feel.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so they expected to make well over 2 million pay-per-view purchases.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember how many pay-per-view buys it did?
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_00: No clue.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_00: It only did 825,000.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And with the Museo Tracking Service.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so with the Museo Tracking Service,
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_00: They discovered,
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_00: and this is when we found out that we had a huge,
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_00: almost seemingly insurmountable problem within the business of boxing.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_00: That everything was going to change and that everything had changed.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_00: With the Museo Tracking Service,
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_00: they found out that almost 20 million viewers stole it,
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_00: illegally streamed it worldwide.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you had everyone interested in it.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Fox and ESPN had spent millions of dollars on the promotion of the event,
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_00: including spots in that year's Super Bowl, right?
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they lost tens of millions of dollars in networks.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_00: The benefactors paying for it.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is why.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is why no mainstream platform is interested in In funding boxing at this point.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_02: And this is why...
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we got two minutes left,
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_02: so I was just going to say that's probably a good place to stop right here.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_02: We will resume probably in a few more months when there's another big fight to look
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_02: at the state and the business of boxing.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_02: This is Joseph Heron.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_02: He has War A Week Radio on YouTube and many different various outlets.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Joseph, thank you for joining me.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_02: And why don't you tell people where they can follow you?
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's WAW Boxing on YouTube, and that's World Week Boxing, WAW Boxing.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_00: But, Lukie, you're such a gracious host, and I'm sorry, man.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to give you guys a history of everything and give you guys insight
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_00: into why Turkey El Sheik is working with Dana White,
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_00: because there are a lot of questions regarding that,
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_00: and everyone looks at Dana White as being bad for the sports, but in essence...
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_00: He's our last hope because he's the only combat sports promoter right now currently
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_00: in the American market that still has influence in the mainstream platforms.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's why he was able to get a deal with Paramount+.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's why Netflix is going to be distributing Tyson Fury's next fight.