Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Mental health conversations within Financial Planning - Robert Stringer

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Mental health conversations within Financial Planning - Robert Stringer · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I went through um addiction issues and you know, Thursday night I would come on and I'd go out down the pub and I get absolutely hammers, and then Friday night I'd do the same, and Saturday I'd do the same.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hector, um, our son who's 18 took his life.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's difficult to unpick now because it to us it came out of the blue.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was presenting as being okay to everybody around me, but on the inside I was dying.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: When people get to that point of crisis where they actually take their lives, unless you're there at that moment to intervene, it's really difficult because to them it's a logical answer.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's gonna be better off without me.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's no reason for me to be here.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: People just started talking normally about their feelings and what they were going through.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: And instantly, instantly, I thought, oh my god, I'm in the right place.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest is Robert Stringer.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Robert is a financial planner with over 30 years worth of experience within the profession.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um he shares today his journey from literally knocking on people's doors, self-employed, to running his own practice under St.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: James's place.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we talk quite in depth about mental health.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Prior to this podcast, myself and Robert and a number of other financial planners were meeting on a weekly basis and having a roundtable discussion about the lack of um well-being and mental health signposting within the financial planning profession and financial services as a whole.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's always been a very male-dominated profession.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps that's the reasons why.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um we do have very much an older generation of advisors within the profession at the moment, so maybe that's another reason why.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: But the one thing that we all came to the decision was that things really needed to change and well-being and mental health um needs to be talked about um within the profession.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, we had some discussions around the round table, had some ideas and everything, and it sort of dawned on me that with Robert's background and his experience of being a financial planner, but also somebody that's gone through an incredibly difficult time in his life.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, Robert's son died.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he commits suicide um when he was um suffering with his own um mental health.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um, as you can imagine, it really not Robert for six.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And how Robert turned, I guess, that into more of a positive and a way for him to deal with it was he set up a charity called Hector's House in his son's name to help people that are experiencing difficulties around their own mental health and to help signpost them to the support that's needed before they go down the route of potentially taking their own lives or or doing something that might damage them in some way.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was a great conversation talking to Robert, you know, as a father myself, I just couldn't imagine what he um would have gone through, and it really inspired me also to share my journey really.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And over the last two and a half years I've um quit alcohol and mind-altering substances because I experienced some quite severe depression.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And um we talk about that and we talk about how that affected me in the workplace, but we also talk about the solutions to these problems, what we can do to get ourselves out of our own heads and into recovery, whether it be recovery from addiction or depression or anxiety or or whatever.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about those solutions, and it was a really great conversation with Robert.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's always a pleasure talking to him.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um I think this podcast is around mental health, it's around two guys exposing and talking about their vulnerabilities and normalizing it.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something that we both feel very passionate about within the financial services, needs to be uh put out more, really, because it's always been a very macho environment and it's time for a change.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoy the podcast.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, Robert, um, thank you very much for joining me today.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's always a pleasure to speak to you.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: We um always start off by sort of really getting to know you first around your career, because obviously the financial plan of life, you know, and my background's recruitment, and there's lots of people that listen to the podcast that love to hear about how people got into the profession and their journey whilst they've been in financial planning, because there isn't just one route in, and there isn't once you're in, there isn't just one route, you know, it's there's lots of different ways people go self-employed, employee, go directly authorized, they become ARs or registered individuals, or you know, there's so many routes.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And with the dawn of things like administration, power planning, compliance, there's more options within financial planning.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's always good to get somebody as well that has, I think, experience of working in the financial press and profession pre-RDR to where to where we are now, because you've got a really good view of the profession, of where it's going, where it is, the improvements that have been made as well.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, Robert, can you just kick us off by sort of just explaining to us how you got into the profession and how you got to where you are today?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so interesting.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when I was a student, I suppose from sixth form onwards, I used to work in the hotel business and trying to earn money as a waiter.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I then found myself going through that.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoyed the I enjoyed the people and the show of being in the hotel business.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually went to college and ended up being in hotel management.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I worked in the hotel business for um a few years.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, actually worked at Champness, who was owned by Guinness at the time.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: They did these peak OPQ tests, which are personality tests, and they said to me, You need to be in sales, we won't just come and work at Guinness.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the directors, um the secretary, had told her husband who worked for Ally Dunbar at the time, Oh, Robert's going to go and work um in sales at Guinness.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: So he said, I'd like to speak to Robert.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: I went to speak to him, and I never said no.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I left working in the hotel business and went to work at Ally Dunbar.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: And in those days, you went on a two-week um course, then went out, and you had to then find your business.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And just remember, I never said no, and I suddenly found myself in the business after two weeks.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I couldn't say to clients, or couldn't say to friends and family, I'm now a financial planner.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea what it was anyway, because I was a hotel manager.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I started from cold.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: I literally started selling cold calling and went out there.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember one time sitting in the car in a lay-by in tears, but my wife had given me a cassette sort of saying with a song don't give up.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I sit in, I had plugged it in and I'm going, okay.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then eventually I did find a niche, and I was helped actually by someone at Dunbar who took me under his wing.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, at that point, I analyzed what I wanted to do, and I thought, I'm I'm gonna stick with this, I don't give up.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I went, I want to be independent rather than working for Dunbar, which is really interesting when I go around the full cycle.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I went to work for um an IFA practice in Hertfordshire.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: They were quite a big one at the time.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Work with them for two years, um, met Richard, who's my current business partner, um, in 1990.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then in 1992, it was a typical one where it, and of course, we started the the recession there and and things, but they they basically exploded and said uh Christmas Eve 1992, uh, we're finished.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Just like that.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so Rich and I said, uh, we we'll just do Christmas, then we'll come back.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: So in 93, um, Stringer Man was formed, and we were an RFA for 19 years.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then in 2009, RDR came in, and then we had the RMAR reports, we were directly authorized.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, I can't do this anymore.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I can't do it, I'm petrified.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I looked and looked at different networks, and already then I was beginning to get a feel for networks and thinking, I'm not sure who's gonna be here for the future.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um we um interviewed with St.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place, who, as we know, they've been in in touch with a few times, and um interviewed with them, and it was in 2009, so just after 2008 recession.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we'd been we've been through, I did the 87 one, 90s, 2008, and I got there and I thought I would I need this cuddle, I need this cuddle of a firm, I need someone, I need to feel I've got people around me, I need to feel um that and the truth the change was incredibly difficult.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, of course, any change causes the most humongous anxiety.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we joined St.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place, and I am very proud to be at St.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: I um obviously we read things in the Times, of course, um, and people that may or may not know people, but when you work within St.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place, what you read and things and what you hear is not what we feel within St.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sure, our charges are where they are, and that's fine.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's a different discussion for today, but I'm very proud of it.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Their technical team are incredible, and most of the people that I meet at St.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place, I would let them advise my mother.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, and that's an important thing.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, we've been here since 2009, and through all the you know, the changes, and I'm very comfortable to be here.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, I started off with no qualifications whatsoever, and then through the time have to do chartered, etc.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's quite difficult when you're trying to run a business.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're here, we're encouraged, and we're, you know, we to actually do that and have people around you who encourage you to do the chartered exams.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and and and then to continue.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm doing this thing from AF6, just as a you know, senior management supervision, just for fun.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's not what it's not it's not my passion.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So um I've seen a lot of changes in the industry and um and lots of things that don't fit my personality.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: My clients fit my personality, meeting with people, talking to people, planning, understanding them, taking them forward, achieving their goals, which I have done with some clients.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're you know, it's second generation, even down to third generation with GIS.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and that's my passion.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot about this industry that's not, you know, exams, CPD, compliance, report writing.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: I have to make myself do it.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Were you always self-employed?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: So the minute I left the hotel industry, I was self-employed.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so, which was part of that panic, I can remember thinking I need PHI because if something I had young children, you know, if something happens to me, you know, so I saw myself PHI and some life insurance that kept me going for a month.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And um, in terms of the commission.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I would I have I I took that step and it was yeah, it was excruciating.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And but I've done it so it's been 30 or well, more than that now.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: But you'll see, I'm what I'm seeing is I think the there was a huge amount of people that were self-employed back when you started.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: That was kind of how you got in.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was literally door knocking, cold calling, wasn't it?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that was hardcore, proper sales.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but now, and then it sort of branched off into employed when the banks were taking people on.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then obviously the the RDR happened.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: There wasn't as many smaller independent firms as I would call, you know, like directly authorized firms or AR practices that were hiring employee people.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone lost their jobs within the bank on the employed model, and then it was self-employed for ages, and then it's gone back to employed, but now I'm seeing like the next gen come through who are really um they're they're really up for it, they're really up for being self-employed and setting up their own businesses and investing in their personal brands and getting themselves out there on social media, they can see the benefit of doing it.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: They're a far more entrepreneurial bunch, and um people are coming through and doing that.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think if you you know if you join the industry now and you do the qualifications, we we have I have to do the back end.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: So while I'm working, um, because they didn't you didn't have to do them, so they didn't exist, because now everyone has to do that.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: The whole thing has become more professional, and therefore, where you've got people, you know, where you automatically do cash flow forecasting, where you are a proper planner, is becoming a really interesting, decent profession to join.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: When instead of saying I want to become a lawyer and accountant, you know, to become a financial planner now, you know, is is as good as it's no longer being you know the worst thing in the world.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you said I'm I'm a financial planner when you went for the poor people, they would run a mile.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like being an estate agent.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or a recruit or a recruitment consultant.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or recruitment consultant.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: But it was, yeah, it's it's similar, isn't it?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: People like as soon as they hear it, like, oh shit, I want to talk to him.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, trying to sell me, it's trying to sell me.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then you finally talk about themselves and never ask you again.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a I'm a careers counselor these days, Robert.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: But it is an industry now that I think we can be proud of because of because of the qualification.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it did need to change.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was painful for those of us that have been around a long time.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, say Richard and I had the conversation, we're now those people that we looked at and thought, oh, you know, you're you old so-and-so's, you know, you need to get real and not, you know, we're at that age now, but I think if we try and keep young and we try and keep motivated and kind of do stuff, but I think it is an industry, it's an exciting industry.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think it has changed.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's talk about that then, because you know, what pre recording this, we just um, you know, we touched on what the point of financial planning is.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so why don't you sort of give us an overview of what you think the point of financial planning actually is?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, everyone thinks that they know what it is, and so and they said, Why would I need anyone?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because of course you can go and buy it yourself, you can do execution only, you can run your own SIP, you can buy your own ICE, you can buy your own pension, um, which is fine.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you buy a product.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's a matter of understanding when you're planning.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, and we get this with clients of any demographic.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, people that you think would would definitely know what about money because they're in it and they're running a hedge fund, for example, but it's not what they do in terms of planning.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same, and then you get a first-time buyer who's never looked at anything before, hasn't done, you know, that and they need to be taken from from that angle, looking at the very basics.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we all need guiding in life, and so you go to people who have experience and knowledge to be guided, um, not now to be sold to, but to be to be able to then say, what are your what do you what do you want to have happen?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: What are your plans?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you want to be?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And without that discussion, they don't know often.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll sit with with people of any age, any demographic and go through those conversations, they go, Well, I haven't thought of it like that.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, I need to think about that, or just listening to their life and then putting things in place.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you, and I don't want to sound trite trite, really, but sometimes we are a little bit like life coaches.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you're thinking of retiring and you've been this all your life, what happens on the day one of retirement?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Have you thought about what you're gonna do as a person?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Had that exact conversation with a client.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: What will I be as a person?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've worked out that their finances are absolutely fine, the pension's all perfectly in place, they've got everything they need.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: But what happens when the next day when they finish work?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we talk about transitions, we talk about looking for things to do.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: But that happens at every stage.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when you're first buying a house with your partner, and you know what happens then, the stresses of running a bit with a family, then I then you start, are you gonna have a family?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then the next bit, and or if you're running a business.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's about guiding people, it's about listening to their lives now, and then to say, what is it gonna be over various periods of time?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: We usually look at rolling five years or um, and to then guide them through things that may happen.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So the old principle was what happens if you die, what happens if you don't, what happens if you're ill?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: So life insurance, pH i pensions.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: But it's the same thing, but it's it's it's looking and listening to people and understanding, and then helping them with that.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then they like to come and talk to you, check in whatever their time scale is, yearly, half yearly, some, but to then to see if they're on track.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, you know, uh, what's interesting what you just said there, what I picked up on, you know, the old tactic being almost classic sales, which is fear of loss, loss of your life, loss of your earnings, loss of your house, loss of a family member.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: What would you do if you didn't have an income?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: So the idea was to scare someone silly to buy a product to then protect them.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And what they were buying essentially wasn't a product, it was a peace of mind, wasn't it?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're going to get peace of mind if something happens in your life, then you're protected.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the whole kind of security instinct.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we all need that.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: We all do need that feeling of security because there's nothing worse than waking up in the morning and panicking about something that actually you could control by putting something into place, but you don't do it because perhaps you don't understand it, perhaps you don't understand fully the need for it.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you go off and you search on the internet, and there's a million and one articles about it, and then you get lost in the bullshit, and then you don't do it, and therefore you just perpetuate the next day.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: You get fearful again and fearful again.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I like the the explanation that you gave there, that it's almost kind of the financial planning has gone from selling a product, it's in gone more into this kind of goal setting.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, goal setting for clients that are at varying stages in their life, and different life events will have different needs and uh requirements financially, and again from a security perspective.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, bringing that goal setting in and then lining that also up with um inspiring that individual to make some changes perhaps in their life to prepare them for events that might well happen that could trip them up and really take them out of the game.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because one thing's for sure is that things change in your life.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of change that happens.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: You can't you can't um control the change, can you?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and you can prepare, but you can control the change.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, one yeah, the one constant in life is change.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so we always have to that that's what makes people anxious.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and and then and then it's a matter of looking at what's truth, what's a thought, and then what can you do about those things, you know, change the things that you can and know that the things that you can't change, you have to sit with and then try and work around them.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you if as a financial planner you take a step back, and so then we have those, we mustn't ever lose the importance of selling life insurance and pH i and critical illness.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: If we all sit back and say we're financial plans, we do cash flow forecasting, we deal with IHT, and you haven't done that bit, it's really important that we don't forget the basis of what we're here for, is all of those elements.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: But if you stand back and talk to clients through that whole thing, it's a natural thing without having to be what if, you know, God forbid, what if you know the hearse was here, blah, blah, blah, which is the old the old way of doing it.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: But by standing back and being a financial planner and understanding their fears and understanding their goals and wishes in that true empathetic way, two ears, one mouth job, then it's a natural progress, it's a natural process.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have agendas and then you bring you you talk about them again, because you know, in my experience, in the in you know, the worst thing is you get a call and someone says, What have I got?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And your stomach goes, Oh my goodness, did I do the life insurance, the PHI, the critical novelist?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because they will call you and ask you, and so all the people in the family.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: So you would never forget the importance of that, but step back and do it as part of the overall planning process.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's it, isn't it?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the first thing I, you know, from my assumption just from doing FBC one and the small exposure that I had to working within the financial advice side was it's all about making sure that you're protected.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: So in the very, very beginning, okay, so what protection have you got in place?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: So if something happens in your life, is your family protected?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Are you protected?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: And let's look at that first.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's really, really important.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's okay, well, let's look at when you're thinking about retiring.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing about saving towards your retirement?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because inevitably you're going to have to retire at some stage.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, what money are you putting aside to do that?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was always my what I remember was always then whatever money was left over was then something that you could then use to invest.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is then money to invest.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: So when you that kind of process makes total sense because I think also, as well, you're aiming then directly at the thing that causes the most fear, which is death, getting ill.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um, what would I do if I didn't have any money?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these are the things that keep us up at night.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think establishing that initial kind of uncomfortableness and getting it out of somebody, I can imagine from there as a baseline becomes a very powerful conversation because hopefully you might be getting some truths out of the person.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's the bit about financial planning that, you know, I'm not gonna lie, it seems talking more and more and more to financial.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Financial planners, I see financial planning perfectly positioned as this wellness proposition.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: It really does lend itself to, as you mentioned about the goal setting, because you know, being a business owner myself, you're like that, aren't you?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're up and down all the time.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're thinking, God, have I got enough money coming in?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I started during the recession, um, COVID came along.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was great guns, and all of a sudden COVID came along.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm shitting myself, you know.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I engaged with a financial planner during that period, and he really helped me um put things into perspective.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, did I have enough money?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Was I buying a house?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Was I, you know, I wanted to buy a house and I couldn't because of COVID happened.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: I it all dropped out.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So my ass dropped out.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, I felt like complete and utter failure.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like a failure.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I started comparing myself to everybody around me, people in my office that bought a house, but I I still couldn't, you know, and and he put everything into perspective for me, looked at my savings, looked at my outgoings, looked, looked at my spending habits, and he said, Sam, you you're in a great position.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you may not have all of this, this house and all that kind of stuff, and all these things that you think you should have, but you've got more money in the bank than a majority of people that I speak to.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And when he kind of said that to me, and I felt quite calm about it, and I was able to let go of this belief, this idea that I should have all these things, because these are the things that made me a success.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: When he was like, just take a chill pill and relax and keep doing what you're doing.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so calming for me, even that simple bit of advice that he gave me.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um, that's when I thought to myself, wow, this is actually a kind of this that's a job that can help somebody really get out of the shit in their head.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So there's two things there.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: One, you're holding it all in, and you're probably not sharing it with the people in your life because you're trying to say, I can do this, I'm in control, I'm a man, I've got everything under control.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to worry anyone in my life because I that's not what I do.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: They need to feel everything's okay, but it's all in here.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then so going and talking to your guy, guy, girl, um, whoever your financial planner is, you've offloaded it, you've talked through your concerns, and they've actually then reassured you that actual fact, this goal of buying a house may not be available to you at this moment, but everything else is in place and you're perfectly safe.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you've got you've had that conversation, you've had an opportunity for someone to sit with you and to be compassionate and empathetic towards your situation, but actually reassure you that you're okay, and that's what we need.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: We need that reassurance that everything's okay.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: And often as a financial planner, you're you're spending an hour and a half with someone one-to-one.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit like barbers.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're training but people training barbers to listen to people because you're often one-to-one with them, taxi drivers, one-to-one, picking up on people who may not be too feeling too good.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: But as a financial planner, you're listening to people's, you know, in-depth conversations about themselves, although it could be about finance, it's often about themselves for a good long time.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the important thing.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: You had a connection with your planner, and they've reassured you everything's okay.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can go, okay, that's fine.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: I can work through that, I can plan for what I need to do.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you're now feeling comfortable.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's that sharing thing.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And if but it could, you know, equally you it would be difficult, but you could say to someone in the office, actually, I'm feeling really shit about this today, and you could share your and everyone can say, Oh, that's that's okay.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because we all learn from being reassured by people um and sharing our concerns, because the more you bottle up, the more stacking, stack, stack, stack, and then what happens is people then overflow.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you're okay if your stackings at a certain point, but then you're adding to it, and you've got COVID and you've got business, and where we're living normal human beings who are having stresses and just living, just being human is difficult.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's nothing wrong with that, but being able to be able to offload those stresses.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the same thing we do with the clients in in listening to them and guiding them, but it's just being human.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the day, we we all need to be more human with everybody and not have all these sort of um macho things around us and not have these this this tough skin around us because we're not, we're all vulnerable, we're all wired.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're we're negatively what we're wired to be negative to a negative bias, yeah.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because in in the old days, you know, that's the thing, you have to keep people around you, you had to be in your tribe, you had to have your connection, um, and you had to be successful, you're out of the tribe, um, and then you're disconnected.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then, and so that's the thing.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: We all we all need that connection.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we all kind of build up this idea that we should know everything.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as we live in this cyber age where you can literally educate yourself around anything, and we all become these kind of surface level experts on things.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we think we know what we're talking about.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, there's all these people on social media, they're showing off what they're doing, how they got there, and why they're so clever.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you sit there sometimes and you feel a bit dumb.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then all then all of a sudden that feeling of like shame kicks in.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: So then you can't actually express how you feel.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it might be something as simple as how does a pension work, or you know, how do I buy a house or can I afford it?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what are the major things that I come up against?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you you um advise corporate clients as well as personal clients, and the two kind of marry together a lot of the time, especially for smaller businesses at business owners, is that feeling of that I own a business, I employ people, therefore I should know about finance.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it I mean, like it was only last it was only during lockdown when I realized that we weren't in control of our finances as a business.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't know where we were going, what our projections were, what our goals were, or anything like that.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I just gave in.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: I gave in and I just handed it over to a finance director and I employed a finance director, and now I just feel so much better by phone.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: I phoned this guy up and I told him exactly what I was going through, how stressed I was, what I was feeling, how it was affecting me mentally, um, my relationship with my business partner.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had some other directors within my business who were looking at me and sort of asking me all these questions, and I felt guilty and ashamed.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and as soon as I got this finance director in and we looked at it, and he is the expert around that, and he started putting some forecasts together, and you know, and every month I get a lovely report and I can look at exactly how much money's coming in and we're getting it in quicker and where we can use it to spend on hiring people.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like I've never felt more content around it.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: But and that was because I gave I let go of the need for control, handed it over to somebody else who was an expert who was also really understanding and listened to my fears, my worries, and my concerns.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because they hear him, that's his business.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: His business is to make me happy because that because that's his job to run the finances, not me.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it freed me up to be able to focus on the things that I could do without in the back of my mind worrying that something's gonna go wrong or it's all gonna collapse around me.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: So every time I have that finance meeting each month, I know exactly how much money we got in the bank.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know how much money things are costing, I know how much we could put aside to hire somebody, what we can pay in bonuses, if I'm working towards a bonus myself, how much I can earn, because that's important to me.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: That then ties in with my personal goals of buying houses or whatever it is I want to do on the personal side.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just been a huge breath of fresh air.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sharing is one of the key things here, isn't it?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: We build it all up.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to um, we don't want to kind of express it.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and especially as men, we're we're I think we're kind of quite terrible at that sort of thing.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: But once it's out and you do it and you share it with somebody that you can trust, you know, that is a professional, and I think the qualification side of financial planning, financial plan is again being seen not as I'm gonna sell you a product, but actually I'm gonna help you with your financial well-being.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's gonna free you up to have a much happier and healthier life.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: You can enjoy your life, not freak out about becoming retired.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: You can set milestones and goals and what you want to achieve to get there.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think it frees the individual up, doesn't it?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: It makes them go, okay, right.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I feel like I'm controlling some of it.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that that you know, it's not a completely unmanageable, that actually it's not as bad as I thought it was.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's lovely, it's a great place to be.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where that's again that financial planning aspect.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when people listening who are thinking about becoming a financial advisor, think less of what you're, you know, you're selling, the product you're selling and what you're doing and how much money you're going to earn, more about Jesus Christ, I'm helping people be happy in their lives and how lead more fulfilling lives.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so step back from that that whole thing.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: The trouble is but like you know, when when money is important and when you need to be earning the money, so therefore you need to be providing solutions or or you know, charging fee time, because you know, whatever you're doing, you you need to have the client, then it's difficult to know that if you just be that guide, the rest of it will happen.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, in your case, you know, you you allowed yourself to be vulnerable, which is amazing, such a big growth mindset that you allowed yourself to be vulnerable.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you recognize you went to someone and you then use their skills to then allow you to be able to maximize your skills, which is being who you are, being Sam, personable, going out there, dealing with talking to people, you know, that's what you do.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: You're not a finance director, that's not your skill set.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: So pass that off.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Recognize who we are, what we do, what we're good at, and give the rest of it to someone else who it's their skill set.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're an auditor, if you're an accountant, that's quite different, and that's a different skill set.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and and then try and understand your skills and then and and and work through that.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, and and as a financial planner, that's what you know, you you will be surprised.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: One will be surprised by the clients that come in looking for that guide when you think, well, you should know this.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: The problem with Googling, and that's all being experts and thinking we're experts and everything, is it's disconnecting because you go on and you learn a little bit about something and you do it online, you do it through your phone, you're disconnected.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be talking to someone else about it.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be using all of the other people around us.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: We were a community at one time.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: You'd go and speak to your aunt about this, your friend down there, the doctor there, but you know, we lived in small communities.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're sitting in our bedrooms completely isolated, having delivery from Amazon, um, looking things up, thinking we know stuff when we're disconnected.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: When we should be actually talking to people and sharing and getting out there.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's the problem with now.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that we live in the most disconnected world, and we need connections.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Everything, the fundamental way of keeping well and and and working well is connections.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's how business survives, that's how we survive as individuals, is by being connected.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: The minute you're isolated, you're in trouble.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly that, and some of the things I've learned over the last couple of years, I've I've allowed myself to come out of my head and move into smaller little communities of people around specific subject matters, whether it be sport or running or hiking or my mental health.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm I'm part of small little little kind of pockets of communities that specialize within those areas that I want to grow into.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: And um you're absolutely right.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: When you find that tribe of people and you connect with them, you just grow like perfectly, especially through connection and sharing the ups and the downs and what you're going through.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, we we often, and I think finance is a part of that.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: You have to, you know, financial finance is a hundred percent a part of that because when none of us are unless you like you're head, you're you're you're deep into it, none of us are financial experts.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: When you need the financial planner is when things are bad.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we don't need a financial plan.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: When it's good, that's fine.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone can go, oh yeah, do that.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Our job was through through March 2020 was to sit with clients and to reassure them that this is one of those things like '87 crash, like 1990s, like 2008, all of the things that you know, the likelihood is over the long term this will just be a blip on the graph.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: But people will then panic and they want to go to cash.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the wrong thing.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we well, they it this even the stats at the moment show that you shouldn't have gone to cash because you know that that would have been the wrong thing to do.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not if someone's really that's their attitude to risk, that's what they want, then fine, then we would.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: But we have to have then sat with them and understood their fears going through all of those things to then say, look, this is our experience.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if you trust us, this is what the right thing to do.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's life, because we're all, you know, we we you know, we we will always reject the unfamiliar, we we want to keep away from pain, we want to keep away from hurt.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what our brain does.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we need, that's how we have to survive.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, was a disabled-toothed tiger, run, go, you know, do, you know, don't wait.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the thing in in the finance, you know, the behavioral finance is clients will people, not clients, people will do the wrong thing.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get away from the pain.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and that's yeah, that's that's life because we're these little humans trying to cope.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got these different brains, haven't we?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: We've got sort of our computer, our human brain.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: This is um listen to to chimp paradox, isn't it?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Pete Steve Dr.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Stevens the other day about the chimp brain and then the computer brain and the human brain, the chimp paradox, wonderful, wonderful idea.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that you then recognize this part of the brain, and then you then work out what is the truth, what's a thought, what's the truth.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's the fundamental thing when people are anxious.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what is the real, what is real here?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Let's focus on that, and that is in everything, everything we do.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love the chimp paradox actually, it's really good.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely loved it.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think um one thing you just picked up on there, which is jump on, is that the a thought is a thought, isn't it?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't mean just because you're feeling it, you're you're thinking it and feeling it that it's true.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I've gotten quite into CBT recently, um, and looking at the cognitive distortions that that our brain that that we that we present ourselves, and there's like these 10 cognitive distortions, and you can go through them as like um all or nothing thinking, overgeneralization, mental filtering, disqualifying the positive, mind reading and fortune telling, which I used to be stuck in all the time, like catastrophizing something, yeah, or magnification, whether it's like um, oh, it's happened once and it's gonna be, you know, it's definitely gonna happen again, you know, and then catastrophizing been the other way around.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: It happens, and oh my god, it's the worst thing in the world, you know, it's it's it's gonna be terrible.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, emotional reasoning, these shoulds, we should on ourselves all the time.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: I should be earning more money, I should have that house, I should be what earning, you know, my business should be so much bigger than it actually is.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I should be slimmer than I am and all that sort of stuff.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we should on ourselves all the time.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you look at the language that we use and and these cognitive distortions.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: And when you actually look at them and you identify them, then you realize it's like, wow, I'm just bullshitting myself constantly.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just telling myself these things all the time.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's no wonder I'm starting to believe my own sort of um cognitive distortions, these distorted views of what life should be or why it should be.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you're not bullshitting yourself, you're treating yourself like shit.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the thing.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you're not, yeah, you're not so bullshitting would be if you were just lying to yourself, but you're treating yourself, it's even worse.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're treating yourself like shit.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: So thoughts become feelings, feelings become behaviors or actions.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's um saying, you know, various people say that, and then and that's that's the truth, and that you know, we have to then be able to you know use a different part of our brain to say actually, okay, what is true here?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Where am I catastrophizing?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Take a breath, and then but also just change that internal dialogue, you know.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, um I'm a big fan of um um Brene Brown and and um Marissa Peer, you know, she's a bit off off, she's a bit off the wall, but um the I am enough stuff because there's no point saying I actually have a six-pack, I'd like to work towards it, but I am enough, actually.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Then you're not actually giving yourself too much to cope with because it's the truth.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: I am enough.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now I could earn more, and what if I want to, you know, then what steps do I put in place?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: But just knowing that I am okay, I'm okay as I am.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, in fact, I have everything I need, but if I want to have more, what do I need to do logically to put those steps and then put a plan into place?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then you know your thoughts become your feelings, become your behaviors.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm gonna fail at this, then you don't do the work.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that so you're gonna fail at that, and then you get shame and guilt.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the things you've always got to go back to saying, what is the truth here when you're feeling anxious?
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the way to do that is become you have to ground yourself and you have to breathe, and then go, okay, Robert, stop those thoughts.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's crap.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna be okay.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is fine, and then move forward from there.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: And if you need to, then try and get some help.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, like every day we have it, don't we?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm you know, I've got to reconcile some bank statements, I've got to reconcile some stuff, I've got to do two exams, I've got you know, stuff and then stuff going on, and then you have to go, right?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, what can I control?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: When am I gonna plan to do this?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: What time can I put in in my diary to do it?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: But don't just wake up and worry about what you haven't done tomorrow yet.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it hasn't happened.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing you have is this now, this we have now.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, therefore, be in this moment, you know, you have to realize that and then not worry too much.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: You have to just take a step back.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: That it's really hard to do that.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: Get out of nature, you know, the things that you've done recently, it's so fantastic to be out there in nature, getting some fresh air, seeing some stuff, widening up your mind, and then talking with your mates as you're walking and talking.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you may not be talking so deeply, but you might be talking about things that are you know that that are your worries, and that's what we need in that connection.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, seeing that photograph of all of you up there.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love Snowden, I love that particular, you know, I've been there, and I and I get I get that feeling just looking at photographs, but that connection of you guys, and that's one wonderful because you'd have walked and talked and maybe talked some stuff out, but had some good times and made some memories and all that.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: But that's so important, fundamental to human nature.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I was hugely grateful for that whole weekend, and that's exactly what happened.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we did three peaks, I went away with four guys, you know, and to look at macho type individuals, great bodies and all about fitness and it, but actually, so mentally aware of their feelings and their emotions, and we connected on so many levels, and we were all different backgrounds, so we shared our views and our feelings and all of that kind of stuff, and we all walked away.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, like we just walked away and we felt so replenished, like our cup was full.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, gratitude for me is a hugely important thing, and I think it's an underprescribed um medication, gratitude, and it's free and special prescribing.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like I was chatting to a lad um a couple of days ago, he's going through through some really difficulties at the moment.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just explained to him how gratitude for me and the things that you get to do and what you you actually have, not what you don't have, focus on the things that you actually have, and then wake up in the morning and open your eyes and go into gratitude.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the first thing I do every single morning, as soon as I open my eyes, it's almost automatic now.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it is automatic.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going through like 15 minutes of deep gratitude, and I genuinely feel my cup fill up inside me.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: So as I get out of bed, I'm in a great state of mind.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: There isn't much that's going to take me out because my gratitude's up there.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the difficulties come throughout the day, but I'm very grateful for where I am.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: And anything that comes to me is a goddamn bonus.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it it, you know, it's one of the hardest things that you can do in the beginning, but just doing it, it just works.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the brain will change.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because we said it earlier about like if you think negatively, right, if you tell yourself all the time you're not good enough or whatever, right?
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: You haven't got this, you haven't got that, why are you not there yet?
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Then you're gonna believe it.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: So why can't you just change it on its head and be positive, have a positive mindset?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: People say, Oh, yeah, but thinking positive, you know, it doesn't really work.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it like everything else, like thinking negative, it bloody works because it proves it.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you've got to work at it every single day to create those synapses, those neurotransmitters, that plasticity in the brain.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Your brain has the ability to change all the time.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: And over the last two and a half years, uh, I am living proof that you can change your your view, you can change your perception of the world.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um I'm so eternally grateful.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: And gratitude has been a huge part of it.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely free, but you've got to get into an attitude of gratitude.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: So mental health for you is incredibly uh important.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you are um the founder also of a charity called Hector's House, and something you've been involved now for um nearly seven years.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's well, you tell us a little bit about Hector's.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: house and and and actually how that that came about yeah so um in 2011 Hector um our son who's 18 took his life um and it's difficult to unpick now because we've got hindsight and also we're you know we we uh we've looked at stuff we we're in in mental health looking at signs so because it to us it came out of the blue we now looking at various things and and and checking we can then say well he did have stacking he did have things that happened to him over a period of time particularly with young men there's you know with with um potentially you know it can be breakup of relationships um he broke his leg he failed his driving test um his other students were going off to one uni he was going to go to a different place and so there's all these things which are called that which we call stacking which then got him to the point when people get to that point of crisis where they actually take their lives unless you're there at that moment to intervene it's really difficult because to them it's a logical answer um everyone's gonna be better off without me there's no reason for me to be here um and in it's a like it's a logical answer so he took his life and so we overnight well in the morning went from being um a normal family to then suddenly bang everything stripped naked everything completely everything I ever thought I knew thought I was and so you you literally have to start from scratch um everything and we we then did some counseling and the problem is you have to then start unwrapping all of the things that you already had in your box to start with so and if you ever do have counseling if whatever has counseling then you know stuff from years ago you know and of course I I was you know I didn't have anything to complain about as a child but we all have things that we take with us that we think okay you know and you've got to unwrap everything to then before you even work on the next bit.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: So two weeks later I came back to work and you know you you sit here well when I sat here and thought you're still numb anyway at that point you're still completely numb and you get there are these stages of grief um which which you go through and it's not normal it loops around and it goes on for a while we will never get over the death of Hector we manage it and we my wife Linda said we will not let this define us as a family gave us permission then to be able to do things and not you know so that was her decision.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: Grief she describes again as this this diamond that goes round and round and you find another facet and another thing and another thing.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: So what happens you learn to manage it you set you learn to do with it things will suddenly happen when you're triggered again.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: So and and then you have different life stages and then his friends have different life stages and you go oh great he you know he could have had a child by now or something and then you know we've got um Lottie and JJ uh his siblings to worry about business had to come back to here um and with suicide and mental health it was about way back in 2011 so it was then not really talked about as much as now now it's getting better it is Jeff definitely getting better there are an amazing there are amazing charities there but basically I had you know but I had people running away from me in the street literally or we had people coming and telling you all their problems so I'm sitting there as a a an ex-normal person saying I don't I don't know my daughter's suddenly my my daughter's this my daughter's that or my son's is or my mother's is so all of a sudden I'm going I don't know so once I after a while I then produced a fact sheet which had in those had calm which was not heard of in those days now it's a massive charity fantastic but it was very new and Jane Powell worked with her right you know at the beginning we raised money for her um and you started it um papyrus was really new and smaller that's now big so we and I had um Samaritans and things so I put a fact sheet together to say you know as a signposting thing then over time it developed and then generic then I put on a website and then Hector's house worked and then in 2016 we then actually got charitable status but we've been raising money for Calm um and and doing things and running and and friends and family all wanted to get involved to do that.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: In the meantime I was here at work and I must have been the biggest shit I mean you know Richard had to you know because you're going through grief come in here and you cannot even understand what you're doing your brain is gone um but I'm trying to go and see clients I didn't see clients for a while for for a probably a few weeks but just driving anywhere was difficult to to try and get around the roundabout I remember you know you sort of I can't remember how to do this.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: I went to a client's in Watford got in a lift went to see them did a did had had a meeting with them got back into lift just burst into tears because you couldn't deal with all the stuff and the stresses but over time that goes 18 months afterwards I I went to see the crack about um I had a heart arrhythmia and he he asked me some questions and said Robert you're depressed I didn't know I was but I'd lost hope.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's and I know obviously what we do now I know that you know if you if you don't have any hope for the future if you can't think forward if you're in this moment and you can't think forward and you know it's too much that's a sign of loss of hope sign of depression so and you know so this got this lot here put up with me you know going through that and and and supporting as best they could because it's really hard because you want everyone to come and give you a cuddle but you want everyone to F off basically and that's depression too um so to be able to to to understand someone who's going through crap is that they they want both they're very selfish people.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted cuddles but I wanted to be left alone but that wasn't really what I wanted.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's hard so hex house was born out of all of that and to then raise um education awareness and support for people to prevent suicide by working at the lower end to say you know basically how do we live well and how do we keep well how can we realize when we're not and also and to prevent people getting into crisis if we can okay that's a really deep story so thank you for sharing that and I couldn't imagine what it must be like to go through to lose a child you know I've got a five year old daughter and um I could imagine it's every parent's worst nightmare for that to happen.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: And going through that must have been incredibly difficult for you and um obviously yourself as well because not only have you lost a child but it's affecting everything to do with your life isn't it you know work for example was being affected how people perceived you what you thought those people perceived of you you're in a place of just isolation really within your head probably trying to work out exactly what the hell's gone on why it happened carrying these questions constantly in your head and um I could imagine it's something that no one really fully understands and they can kind of empathize and they can kind of get to that place to sympathize I suppose as opposed to empathize but get to a place of kind of wanting to understand but you don't know until it until you go through it.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for sharing that that must be really really difficult.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: But you know Hector's house is a charity that you've set up to be able to support and help anybody that's then potentially going through a difficulty like that within their lives and to help so is it to help the individuals like um person that's say going through a difficult time in their life like depression or anxiety to help them recognize the signposts that actually they might be on a path that could be leading to self-harm and is it also to support parents that have also gone through it and and family members that have gone through that have you got two sort of facets to it?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well I suppose it this there's quite a few different things so we we go out and talk to schools and communities and corporates um about our story.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: So storytelling is is is is is important in life and it's how we do financial planning the best thing the way it's connect is to tell a story.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we go into schools and one of the one of the things that we have is because it's real particularly going to schools when you're talking to students they and then and lots of even my daughter or or I or um it's usually the family go in because it's real they go ah this is no sort of mental health tick box thing they're actually going ah and we connect with them straight away the important thing is then we're not trying to cause them with we with the connection is there talking about Hector and his story and being vulnerable and authentic about that.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: But then we want to the whole point is giving people hope and to know that it's okay to feel crap it's okay to feel shit you are a human being but what can we do to try to do that so um eating better moving more connecting all the things we've talked about here being in nature trying not to eat too to drink or eat too much of the wrong things um and then to to connect with people when you need to and that works in schools that works in corporates that works in communities that's everything.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going out and talking to people and saying this is our story it's okay to talk and so raising awareness about mental health which is it's as important as physical health and the whole narrative out there is that there's more of that going on.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: The important thing then is that what happens and it's a bit like everything it's okay to talk about all that and it's okay to say it's great to talk it's important to talk you must talk if you're feeling shit.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: But what happens then if someone says actually I am feeling really shit what do I do so then we need to be able to signpost to places where they can get support and then when people are in crisis we will get them support.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: We triage when people come to us so we have contacts all the time coming in and we treasure so it may be that actually being able to hear someone and to help them is what if we go thank you so much I didn't realize we just having you guys there has really helped us thank you for signposting us towards this that the other and saying that we should go and do see the GP we'll come back to if we need any more or part of that would be that person needs to go and see one of our psychiatrist counselors or whatever and we get them there.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we have gone and picked people up before we've done various things that you know we don't really need to discuss now in terms of being there and doing something.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's providing awareness and education and then and and and as much as we can being the support but then also actually saying right we will pay for this we will get you to see someone because you know they go to Iapt where you get CBT there's a nine month waiting list there.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: CAMS is an 18 month waiting list if someone says to you they're really you know they they've got suicide ideation they need to speak to someone now so we do part of you know what I do on the on the crisis line is you know we have to ladder up so basically if someone has thoughts it's okay to have thoughts of suicide you can have thoughts it's it's that's it we can all have those thoughts the next thing is do they have a plan?
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's when I start getting a bit squeaky I go okay they've got a plan that worries me then memes then time frame so that's where we have to then say yeah it's okay to think to have to feel crap and to actually say that you feel crap.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: What worries me is the next thing if someone says yeah I have thought about it and I think I know what I'm gonna do then that's where we go okay right we need to get we need to intervene so so you can't always be there on the bridge when with Johnny Benjamin when when that's what actually happened with Johnny Benjamin and story and then that that superhuman being noticed he was there and stopped and spoke to him and saved his life and that's what happens in crisis intervention is that it is you know you learn how to do that.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: But we do that virtually as well um we do that online.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: So Hector it's aware education awareness and support and getting people if they need it.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: But the main you know it's it's a bit like to our community saying it's historically a macho thing the industry lots of blokes and luckily lovely lots of other people now lots of of females in it and and we and and and it's opening up is actually being much more inclusive but it is a macho it is it's I can't it's not you know I wouldn't be in too much trouble saying it is macho and there are men around and lots of men around all trying to run businesses all trying to to sh to keep it all going all pretending that they're okay when they may not be and it's okay to say actually I'm not feeling geared about this I'm feeling a bit crap today.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's all too much I just need to do what you did which is recognize that there are things that you need help with.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it can be luckily it can be as simple as actually can I get someone to do my accounts for me can I get someone to do my marketing for me or I need to actually express why I'm why I'm what's happened in my life that's making me feel crap.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: What baggage have I got and actually go through that process of unloading something that's happened to you or something that you're struggling with mentally or physically that causes us to have shame and stigma and to hide when we shouldn't be but you we need to be able to feel safe and be able to have those conversations in a safe place with someone who can then listen and you don't have to be experts to do it but just to be able to listen and then with you say what's your next step what would be good for you because there's no point telling people the whole point is what we want to do is to be with them and help them understand the next step we all know what we need we deny it we cover it up we do other things to to to numb that need but we all know what we really need to do and sometimes just by having someone being with you and being if you can't be empathetic you can be passionate or or sympathetic to then say okay what do you need next and then take that next step.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah absolutely and it goes back to that connection doesn't it you know that someone doesn't feel so alone and feel so much in their head and they're internalizing it and on their own power they're trying to solve their own problems which actually it can be incredibly difficult because your mind's getting to you a getting getting you to a place where you're self-harming in whatever capacity it could be down the route of suicidal idolations it could be addiction it could be um multiple things that you that you're doing you know that can make continue to give you that self-harm and I think until you actually come out and share it with somebody and express exactly how it is you're feeling you don't actually truly get over it.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I think at the same time it's that trust isn't it it's that feeling of like okay can I can I tell somebody who's gonna non who's gonna be non-judgmental that's the trick non yeah non the non-judgment the positive regard.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and that's and that's one of the hardest things and you know I can relate to that myself through um and I I haven't you know I've not I've kind of touched on this but I'm gonna share it today.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: But like you know I went through um addiction issues and for years and years and years and years I was using alcohol on a binge basis to solve my problems you know and de-stress and comes on a Thursday I convince you know Thursday night I would come on and I go out down the pub and I get absolutely hammers and then Friday night I'd do the same and Saturday I'd do the same.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd swear blind I'd never do it again and bang I was doing it again the week after.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that was my routine for a good 15 years.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: And gradually and gradually and gradually I was getting more and more depressed because more of life problems were building up on me.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: Of course they are my unmanageability was was happening but I was presenting as being okay to everybody around me but on the inside I was dying.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: And gradually over time I was getting closer and closer to what you expressed earlier that the future just wasn't a future for me.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just I didn't see the point in it.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was getting bitter I was getting resentful I was full of fear full of anxiety and I was in a place of just like a horrible place.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: And but the type of person I am I will try to solve my problems you know I love reading I love reading all these different books and I was reading all these books about mental health all these books about self-help and everything like that.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I was even using other like cannabis and stuff like that.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: If I can smoke cannabis then I and I don't drink then that's okay.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you know even looking at things like um psilocyum and all these different types of of drugs that I thought if I used that then I wouldn't drink because drinking was the reason why I was depressed.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have any clue or understanding that actually it was my thinking that was the problem and that was the reason why I was drinking you know drinking was a simpson of my thinking.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: And one day I just stopped and I and I I got up after a binge and my wife was like you know you got to change mate otherwise I'm gone and I was thinking right I'm gonna lose everything here you know my wife my daughter and all that kind of stuff and I was like to the point where I was like well what's the point because I can't stop I can't keep making these promises and failing and failing and failing and the shame and the guilt that was building up in me was was causing my my depression and and and thoughts of suicide and um and a friend of mine got clean and sober um through um a 12 step program.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I reached out to her and just how the hell did you do it?
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know I am literally broken right now.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_00: I can't stop you know but I I've got all these things around me I don't understand why I can't stop anyway so I went to this 12 step program and I walked into this group and there must have been about 70 people in there.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously I was just like hanging out my arse.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I got in there and I sat down and there was these people just started talking normally about their feelings and what they were going through and what level of drinking and it was all different levels of drinking and drugs and all of that.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of like looking at the differences because I wasn't a part bench alcoholic I didn't go to prison or hospital or anything like that.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of looking at the differences I looked at the similarities and instantly instantly I thought oh my God I'm in the right place.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that connection that you mentioned about community I was I oh I could feel it coming out of my chest.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was opening up I was like oh my god this is where I I I I belong because all these people were saying how I was feeling and I thought it was just me.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I was the only one by doing that and then I got round to me talking about it and I expressed how I was and then it dawned on me that these guys are complete abstinence.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_00: So they chose to never drink again and never do drugs again.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: I never never occurred to me that that was my solution.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know so I so I made a choice that day to never drink or do drugs again right and to work on my thinking.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: I instantly got a sponsor that sponsor has been like by my side for like two and a half years and once I gave up I actually stopped drinking that day and never had an urge again.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: I've never had an urge again.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's unbelievable right because I let go you know I surrendered I hit this point and I surrendered and I let go and then I thought to myself I have to work on my thinking.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then when he expressed to me and he explained to me that it's your thinking that's wrong and then he started doing all this work with me which is basically like cognitive behavioral therapy.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: Once I gone through that and I started let going of all these past resentments, these fears that I had about myself, the future my self-esteem looking at the my thinking how I interpret situations and how I get myself into unmanageable situations and overwhelmed which could potentially lead to drinking or for me actually it's not the drinking that I worry about it's the going back to depression and suicidal thoughts.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I realized that and I was able to manage to get rid of all my past get it all out into the light.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to get over all these resentments, all these fears I had I had to bring it all into the light I had to look at it I had to look at my part of it dissect it all let it go let it go let it go let all these rocks out of my backpack and I was just lighter than a feather and now every day as we said earlier it's a practice for me every day I have to work on my mental health I get up I go into gratitude.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: I you know if a thought comes into my head I have to look at it write it down what part am I in it what part is it affecting in me what cognitive distortion what character trait is negative how can I turn that into a positive character trait and every day that I do that the the stronger I get and it's incredible and it's a practice like a daily routine daily practice.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I know that things like what you've gone through and what your son fortunately happened to your son I know it's a real thing.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know how hard it is you know And things like Hector's House that signpost people that allow people to feel like it's okay to express that you're not okay is so powerful because that connection with two people that fully truly understand it saves lives because I know it and I experience it.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_00: And what I love about what you're doing is you're turning your a terrible thing that happened in your life.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: You've turned it into a positive.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, an example of that within a 12-step program, right, is that I have to support somebody else.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got somebody that I'm sponsoring, and they're going through the stages that I went through, and they're having these revelations and changes, and their life's getting better, their family life, their work, everything's improving.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it's like I'm learning as I'm doing it.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so powerful.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that again is that connection.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as human beings, we we are losing that connection.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're losing that ability to help each other, community, because that's how we function.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_00: And none of that is houses, none of that is flash cars, none of that is how much money I've got, or how good looking I am, or what my Instagram followers is.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's just pure deep compassion and care and honesty and trust and courage and belief that you can get better and supporting that person, even when they're down and when they're up and all of that kind of thing.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um hats off to you to set up Hector's house and what you're doing because you're helping people, aren't you?
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and those people are gonna get better.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're allowing people to feel like it's okay, it's normal.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's normal to have these thoughts, but they're not gonna do you any good.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_00: So let's look at a solution to get you out of it so you don't feel like shit and you can enjoy the rest of your life because everybody has that within them to enjoy the rest of their life and have that wonderful connection and and and meaning and purpose.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: And jumping out of bed in the morning, they're thinking, yeah, I love this.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so so hats off to you to turn that travesty really into a into a positive.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and also, I mean, for you to share your story is incredible because you showing your vulnerability allows me to show my vulnerability.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_01: So even though we're on we have we have we have different vulnerabilities, the fact that you've done that is is is incredible, and what you've done is amazing, and you know, and and and the people you met there, whatever their life situation, you had that connection and empathy with them.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and that, but at the end of the day, whatever it is we're suffering from, it's all down to being humans, and that we need to realize that we are okay, we're doing we are enough, we do our very best, we forget, we have to forgive ourselves for anything that we haven't done or anything that we may do, and realize that we you know we do our best.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we always said if we could save one life and uh and we we but then we get greedy and then we now say we want to do more, and that's not enough.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, but just the fact that you've now looking after someone else is exactly what you said, what you're then learning, and then you're learning how to keep yourself safer as well.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that through my work with Hector's House, we talk about Hector every day.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_01: So there is, you know, it's sort of a symbiotic relationship, really, but also I'm learning more every day about myself.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm also a bit like you, um, I have to do with reading for finance, but a lot of a passionate reader of anything to do with mental health and anybody who's who's talking about mental health.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I'm learning about me and trying to I recognize where I need to learn more and to try and be a better person every day, but I don't beat myself up, try and wake up and go, yeah, what happened happened.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm where I am now.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_01: It all happened for a reason, everything happens for a reason, and I have to accept that I'm here now.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And what can we do going forward?
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so we try to, you know, the whole point is to give hope to people, say, you can, you can all do this, you will get better.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is possible.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_01: We can do this, um, we can do this together, we will help you find a solution.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, it's only you know, it's only too late when it's too late when someone's taken their life.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_01: We can't help them then.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's done, and we then have the tsunami of of grief for their friends and family.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_01: But up till then, there's always hope because it's just finding for everybody the right reason as to why what they're carrying and where that's come from, and how do we sort that out?
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because in in most cases, unless someone has a deep, a severe and enduring mental health issue, most cases, many cases, it's about just being human.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's stuff that you've got in your backpack.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love that analogy.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you're throwing each of those stones at, you know, because that's what we need to do as human beings.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I like the sentence, I love the fact that you said hope there as well, because that's a big, big part of it.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have a faith and a belief that things can get better and that they can and will get better.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just want to emphasize, you know, I was that guy who was so smashed apart internally, smashed apart.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I did not want to be here.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now I am so grateful for my life, so grateful for everything that I have, the people around me, uh, my health.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned it.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about working on one area.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: You have to work on multiple areas.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are you eating?
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing to your physical body?
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, are you exercising exercising?
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_00: One thing by not putting alcohol and drugs into my body is it's massively improved my mental health.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it took time, it took time to fix my thinking, you know, and to to undo the damage that I was doing to my body and my mind.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_00: But gradually over time, it gets better.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And another thing that I want to kind of emphasize to people if anybody's listening and they're going through any kind of mental health problem, is that there isn't for me, and this is my personal opinion, because we've all got different levels of mental health.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's a big, you know, it's it's a plethora of kind of areas.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_00: But for my experience of being depressed and anxious and an addict, is that it's not a quick fix.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_00: There isn't a quick fix.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_00: It is daily work.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you don't you don't go down the gym, lift some weights, and then bam, you're a fitness model.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it takes years to get a body like a fitness model, right?
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and you have to maintain it.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just, well, I've got it now, so it's there.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's an everyday maintenance, you know?
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's exactly the same with your mental health.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Don't think that, okay, well, I've just seen something that says within 90 days I can I can be happier or change your habits within 21 days and all of that.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, fundamentally, those types of things are right essentially, but it's a continual progressive journey.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And from you know, day one that I decided to change my life to whatever day I'm on now, which is nearly kind of coming up close to like a thousand days, it's like I'm it I've changed, but every day is different.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Every day gets progressively better and it compounds, doesn't it, over time?
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's you've got to chip away at it constantly, chip, chip, chip, chip, chip, chip, chip away of it.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's no end in sight.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I just want to emphasize with people because I was always looking for the quick fix to get better, always looking for the quick fix to get better.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_00: If I could pick a tablet that would make me better, then I've done it.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_01: That is crucial.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And people do come to us and all they'll they'll say they want to go to their GP, they want to have um medication, they want to have an answer, they want to have a diagnosis, etc., etc.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now, for some people that may be useful, some people it isn't useful, but it is exactly what you say.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in that fact, offloading can be a great help, but then you still work to do.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same way with everything in our job.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_01: We say, well, it's it's okay, people they need to have that constant support because it's a long process to get to that point, and you still have to chip in.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's like counselors have to have, um, they have to have their support because you constantly we all need support then for for so with your program, you had someone mentoring you, you're now mentoring someone else.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now, that thing is causing you to have that continual support.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_01: You probably have a supervisor as well to say, well, how is your person doing?
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and because the process, we need people to go, yes, okay, we can we can support you, but we support people then for you know series of times and for months.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_01: You then have to learn to how do you support yourself on an ongoing basis every single day for the rest of your life.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't need to be big, that's just small tweaks, isn't it?
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's like when you're saying, okay, well, I need to get I need to get a fit and needs you there comes a point when you can just do a maintenance program as opposed to a rigorous, you know, shredding program.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and but it it is because that that's in the understanding then in the end that life is a balance.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if we can be balanced in everything we do, and to understand and just to check in with ourselves and then say yeah, and then so you can keep sort of adjusting good analogy, both in financial planning, but also with our mental health and with our physical health.
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_01: You have to just check in with yourself and just adjust and and just you know, uh trim those sails or whatever you need to do to say, Am I on the right course?
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then because you say, because it's there is not it's not a pill, you cannot, there is not a pill for this ill, there's not a pill for every ill, but you know, it you it it's about yeah, doing all of those things.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we we use the analogy eat, move, love, which is you know, but eat well, move more, connect.
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can do those three, if you can just work on that, you know, again, it's down to you know, how am I drinking Red Bull and having a donut before I go to the office, thinking that my brain is going to be great for sitting here and actually doing some decent work when I'm like that.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas, you know, and it's easy for me to say drink more water, you know, and people go, and I had a sip for I said, you know, you know, eat more kale.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, kale can do one.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I get that, yeah, sure.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_01: But just try and just think about a little bit more about what we're doing because we're chemicals, we're electricity, we need to be balanced.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_00: The one thing I've learned the most of is that is that is this mind being mindful around what I'm doing, who I'm surrounded by.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Am I reviewing my day?
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Am I looking at the part that I play in things?
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Am I being selfish?
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Am I being self-centered?
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Am I connecting with people and being giving and caring and looking out for somebody else?
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it all about me?
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Am I spending too much time at work?
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, am I thinking about the staff who are in my business?
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Am I thinking about their well-being, their mental health?
• 1:17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do I have things in place for them as well?
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's about them and supporting those guys also.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_01: So important.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_00: So mindfulness for me, it just it's it's a practice now on a daily basis.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you build it.
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And people think, God, we you must be thinking about all the time.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, it just comes naturally to me now.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very mindful.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you said there about like a cup of coffee or a coffee for me, I've got to be very careful with coffee.
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I, you know, I'll have my one cup a day and you saw me have my espresso earlier.
• 1:17:32
  SPEAKER_00: I find it, you know, it's nice, it's great, it does things for me.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I tell you what, if I don't have it, I'm like almost in a hangover.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And like I went through stages where I don't drink coffee and then I feel great, but then I slump a little bit and I think, oh, well, why am I slumping?
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Am I slumping because I'm not in a good place, or are you slumping because not the caffeine?
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I get back on the caffeine and think, oh, caffeine's a solution, you know, and we can kind of get ourselves into like silly things, you know, and it's something as simple as coffee or too much sugar or too much high-fat foods and not enough exercise.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately it comes down to some of the fundamental basics of like what am I putting in my body?
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_00: What am I consuming in this world which is surrounded by things that are addictive?
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, am I spending too much time on social media?
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Am I comparing myself to others too much?
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what you know, um, am I addicted to sex?
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Am I addicted to uh food?
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Am I addicted to exercise?
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I think people kind of look at addiction as being this kind of part bench type thing, but actually it is kind of we're we're surrounded by overstimulation, it's the dopamine age, you know.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and these companies and the thing, you know, they design everything to really solve that that feel.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So McDonald's is designed to have that feel in your mouth, it does not design to do you any good, but um, and everything is out there for all these dopamine hits, and and then we get addicted to it.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_01: So our brain does that and we get that hook on it.
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um now the other other addictions are because we have a feeling of tor, we've had trauma or loss, and we're trying to cover up with this numbness for that.
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of these other things are what you know, TikTok is addictive.
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's fun and it's addictive.
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And as a 59-year-old man, I have to say that make sure I don't go down the hole.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but other things are because either because we're trying to cover something or we're trying to fill a hole that we're lacking.
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but out there, they are so clever in getting us in those things that give us the dopamine hit that as a human being, what we want is to feel comfortable, to feel safe, to feel warm, to feel loved, to feel full, um, which goes back to our primal needs and which is to eat enough, to have sex, etc.
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and so that's what everything's designed to do.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have to be aware of what is around us, as you said.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Who am I sitting next to?
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Who am I with?
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, am I with people that are uplifting or not?
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Make a change if if if that's not a good place to be.
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Also, what am I exposing myself to?
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's so trying like we read all these books and things like don't keep your phone by the bed, do not look at your phone as soon as you wake up.
• 1:20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Try to do some mindfulness or gratitude before you get out of bed.
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone will go, oh, that's so woo-woo.
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm telling you, you know, if you can try and avoid that, do not compare yourself to everyone else's wonderful lives on Instagram where everyone else has gone on holiday, they've had a wonderful life, and you're not.
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because even as a 59-year-old man, I can look sometimes and think, oh, and I have to go, you're being a dick.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Stop looking.
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because you wouldn't take that plate of food round to your friends that has just been made.
• 1:20:45
  SPEAKER_01: They think if you were knocked on your next door neighbor with a plate of food, they said, No, I just cook this.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_01: They go, What are you doing here?
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_01: And yet we're looking at people sitting in restaurants with those two glasses of wine, going, huh?
• 1:20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you're thinking, Do I, you know, why am I looking at this?
• 1:20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually do have a I do do a claim every now and again.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I and it sounds woo-woo, and I know, um, but I actually say, Right, I come off and I actually will leave my phone at weekends in the, you know, so I don't look at social media um because it is addictive, it's comparison.
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hugely.
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's designed by it's and it's designed by gambling companies.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like Facebook, Instagram, etc.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_00: They could the reason why you can pull down on it is because it's like pulling down on a, you know, on a on a on a gambling slot machine arm.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's been designed by gamblers, it's been designed to be addictive, and um it's uh it's a dopamine uh creator, and um it is dangerous.
• 1:21:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think digital detoxing is is so so important.
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've done it myself.
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_00: I go through digital detoxes, I go through my phone, delete everything, simplify it, so spend less time on it.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because the less time I spend on that, the less time I can spend on something which is worthwhile.
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I think as well, it's really, really massively important to not have these high expectations of oneself.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, none of us are perfect, and it's a continuation of change when you try and change your life and become more you know, well from a well-being perspective.
• 1:22:08
  SPEAKER_00: You don't go from one day being one thing to another day being another.
• 1:22:11
  SPEAKER_00: It is a progressive natural change.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're allowed to fail.
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Failure is great, just got to pick yourself back up again and keep going, keep moving forward and keep moving forward.
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And there is no end in sight when it comes to overall well-being and feelings.
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the one things that's just so important is that if anyone's sitting in their head, suffering, get out of your head and get in and talk to somebody because there's so many people, it's Hector's house, there's there's addiction issues, there's tons of addiction places you can go, there's loads of numbers you can telephone now.
• 1:22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Don't feel ashamed, guilty, get your pride out of the way and go and ask for help because as soon as you ask for help and you have that courage to do it, you're taking a step to changing your life, and your life will get better.
• 1:22:49
  SPEAKER_00: It will just get progressively better.
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to tell you it's going to be easier, but it will get better than where you are stuck in your head.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll think to yourself, why the fuck didn't I do that before?
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Why did I sit and suffer for 10 years when I could have just connected with somebody and they would have explained, expressed to me exactly what my issue was.
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's just you're so on it, and you know, you are so inspirational.
• 1:23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And anyone looking at you would go, that guy's got it all.
• 1:23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you've shown your vulnerability in saying, I have struggled and I'm a work in progress because we are as human beings.
• 1:23:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_01: We have to live in this real world, which is in many ways brilliant in that we have healthcare, we have everything else, we have we have all of this stuff, the computers, but we just have to recognize what is good and bad, a bit like a knife.
• 1:23:43
  SPEAKER_01: It can be a good and bad thing.
• 1:23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do that with everything.
• 1:23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I love your thing on recognizing our part.
• 1:23:51
  SPEAKER_01: So being honest with yourself as well, being kind to yourself, but being honest and saying, okay, yeah, I'm a human being.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I did, yeah, okay, this is where I am.
• 1:24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And what can I tweak?
• 1:24:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so that we don't just go around blaming because that doesn't really serve any of us.
• 1:24:07
  unknown: Right.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_01: But but forgive ourselves and forgive ourselves, be kind to yourselves, and then go, okay, yeah, what's the truth?
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_01: What can I do?
• 1:24:18
  SPEAKER_01: And know that you're a human being and that you are okay.
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think as well, lowering your expectations.
• 1:24:23
  SPEAKER_00: One of the best analogies someone gave to me, Sam, is like, he said, you're like a high jumper, right?
• 1:24:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you walk up to the high jump and you set the bar really high, and then you run at it and you try and jump it and you never you never jump it.
• 1:24:34
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Have you ever thought about just lowering the bar?
• 1:24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then when he did that to me, he said that to me, and I was like, Oh my god.
• 1:24:41
  SPEAKER_00: The expectation that I, when I wrote down the expectation of I had on myself of what I should be, it was insane.
• 1:24:49
  SPEAKER_00: There was no no wonder I felt like a failure because my expectations were so high, it was ridiculous.
• 1:24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I started lowering the bar and I'd felt okay about it, it was like, oh, I'm achieving things.
• 1:25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden you get a sense of achievement.
• 1:25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, why the why was I setting it so high?
• 1:25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's a good thing to kind of like have these aspirational goals and stuff, but they but it's also so debilitating.
• 1:25:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like just lower the bar, man.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but it doesn't have to remain low.
• 1:25:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's setting a realistic goal, yeah, and then you can raise the bar.
• 1:25:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not saying that you can't jump that at that height, but you need to practice, you need to have your eye in, you need to get the muscles in there in the right place, yeah.
• 1:25:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can raise it inch by inch.
• 1:25:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:25:34
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't feel by lowering the bar that it's a negative thing, it's being realistic and understanding where you are.
• 1:25:41
  SPEAKER_00: So um, Robert, obviously, when we very first got in contact, we talked about financial well-being.
• 1:25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so well, financial well-being, but also the well-being of financial planners and the maturism, if you like, within the profession.
• 1:25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we talked about sort of why why perhaps there isn't much about mental health within the financial planning profession.
• 1:25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we talked about a distinct lack of females, and females tend to be more compassionate type individuals.
• 1:26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And in any profession where you see more females, you tend to have more sort of open conversation about things like mental health.
• 1:26:09
  SPEAKER_00: But also the average age of an advisor is quite old.
• 1:26:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:26:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's older, sorry, like 55.
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's predominantly male.
• 1:26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Males aren't predominantly people that have talked about their own mental health, especially old male men from a certain generation.
• 1:26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's certainly a profession where a financial planner is seen to be this kind of pillar of community and has to be strong.
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned it earlier, you know, going through a period like COVID, you're there to support people when they're going through a really worrying time.
• 1:26:32
  SPEAKER_00: So a financial advisor being vulnerable or making themselves vulnerable can often feel like the wrong thing to do.
• 1:26:39
  SPEAKER_00: When we got together, we had a round table discussion, brought a few financial planners in, and we talked about that.
• 1:26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And what was apparent was that especially in the world of financial planning, being self-employed, being quite isolated a lot of the time, there isn't that connection, was there?
• 1:26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so there is often, there are, there are probably, and as expressed around that round table, lots of people sitting in their shit and not being able to express it to other financial planners who might be able to solve their issues and solve their problems.
• 1:27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that small sort of round table that we did, it was really, really positive.
• 1:27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we all were in agreement that this is something that we should do.
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking now, perhaps, you know, off the back of this podcast, maybe we put out a an invitation to any financial planner, male or female, that would like to connect with other financial planners just to talk about perhaps some of the struggles and the strains and things that they're going through from an honest, open, trusting uh place, and just see whether or not we can build something.
• 1:27:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what your thoughts are on that, Robert.
• 1:27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I I I think that would be superb.
• 1:27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um because having people from different parts of the industry, different walks of life, then you you get a a whole cross-section of interest.
• 1:27:50
  SPEAKER_01: And but with that whole thing of saying, yeah, I want to be I want to be connected to part of something that can be um positive, that can help people through issues, so um, but also where people can be honest and talk about how they're feeling.
• 1:28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it would be a great thing to do.
• 1:28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm not aware that there's anything being done at the moment, that there's anything out there, and I do know that there is a need for people to be able to know where to go to if they need help.
• 1:28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and some people, you know, you you would think it's all out there, you think people would know, but um, but I'm always surprised when that and and I wasn't actually no, I'm I'm living um proof of the fact that I didn't know much about mind or Samaritans or anything until Hex took his life.
• 1:28:39
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously I know all about that now.
• 1:28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there are people who are doing their day job who are just getting on with their lives, who are who are feeling crap, who don't need to feel like that and be on their own.
• 1:28:52
  SPEAKER_01: So certainly I think it would be um great if we could organize some some way of connecting with everyone, however that looks, and whatever, you know, to be able to have a community of of you know, financial planning, well-being, whatever, whatever.
• 1:29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:29:09
  SPEAKER_01: I I would be be fully supportive and want to be involved in that.
• 1:29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's just take it somewhere like we did before and let's see what happens.
• 1:29:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's probably, you know, when we say setting a bar, let's just set the bar nice and low at low in the beginning, yeah, and just bring some people in and all sit around and and and have a discussion.
• 1:29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, if you can create something that's like once a week, you know, and people can come in and you're all doing the same job, so you're all expressing and you're sharing the same sort of fears and worries and concerns and problems, then solutions will naturally come out, connections will be made, mentoring will happen naturally.
• 1:29:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think without actually doing it and applying it and putting it into place, then it will never happen.
• 1:29:46
  SPEAKER_00: And as you said, there's nothing out there at the moment.
• 1:29:48
  SPEAKER_00: So let's let's take a look, let's see what happens and um and sort of and sort of take it there.
• 1:29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Robert, listen, I'm really, really glad I've spoken to you today.
• 1:29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Love talking to you.
• 1:29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously, your your background, thank you for sharing that.
• 1:30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing openly uh around um your son's suicide as well and um Hector's house and what you're doing to help raise awareness of mental health and help signpost people and support people to hopefully not take the decision to end their life and to actually see that there is hope and there is a different way.
• 1:30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think it's inspiring that you're doing that.
• 1:30:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um thank you, Robert.
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sam, thank you for the opportunity and thank you for sharing your story too, and um allowing me to come on here.
• 1:30:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's always wonderful to see you and to hear you and to talk with you.
• 1:30:40
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're an inspirational chap.
• 1:30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh Robert, you're so kind, thank you so much.
• 1:30:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it.
• 1:30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, thank you.
• 1:30:46
  SPEAKER_00: All right, thanks, mate.
• 1:30:47
  SPEAKER_00: All the best.
• 1:30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.