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Earning Trust and Building Relationships: What Clients Really Want from Advice · Adeptli's Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: And welcome to the Adepty Podcast.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: At Adeptly, we work alongside advisors and advice firms, providing hands-on technical, operational, and strategic support to help them deliver good advice and run stronger businesses.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: In this series, we explore the trends, challenges, and questions impacting financial advisors and advice firms across the UK, with practical insight from people working at the heart of the industry.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Clear thinking, real experience, and honest conversation.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get into it.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Today I'm joined by my fellow Adepti co-founder Julia and also by Alex Kell.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Alex is a chartered financial planner and principal of Keyside Wealth Management, a growing advice business in Gloucestershire.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: What makes Alex a great guest for this conversation is that his approach to advice is very much centred around the client and the person in front of him.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: So in this episode, we're going to explore what it really takes to earn trust as an advisor, how credibility is built with clients, and why good financial planning often starts well before the recommendation itself.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: So welcome, Alex.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: So let's start at the beginning then.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: How did you end up in financial advice?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: As we were just saying, uh a bit of an early midlife crisis, I've just been uh told, uh, as I am only 42 now.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was working at Gloucester College, I worked with business owners where my job was to link them to either the skills that the college had in regards to students or the actual um department, so like motor vehicle or engineering.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'd met a partner, moved into a house, saved some money, um, moved out of my house, had friends living there with a little kid, and then a governor of the school basically said to me, uh, be conscious of what you're promising local businesses, because although you're probably trying to deliver on it, the college might let you down.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it was one of those first times in my life where I thought about how important like personal brand is and personal reputation.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it narked me because I thought, if I can't do my job properly, there's no point me being here.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up ringing my sister, who's an IFA.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we caught up the week later, went to what was Thornton's coffee shop, she's no longer there in Gloucester anymore.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And she basically said, if your job is the same job, but your tools are different.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you were doing what I was doing, you'd be using financial services, but you'd be having the same conversations about challenges, what's wrong with you know, how can you help people get further?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Mine was how do I help business get further?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I went back to the college and I quit.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I literally put my notice in that day.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time, um I'd met a lady who was part of St.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: James Place, Andrina.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And Andrina said, If you're going to re-qualify in financial services, you should definitely do it through the SJP Academy.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I applied for that as well.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, before I'd even got into that, I'd already handed my notice in.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Luckily, I did get into that after a few interviews, and um, yeah, that was the start of it.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So probably a massive thank you.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: I never think about this, but a huge thank you to Andrina, to be fair, because it's changed my life, like total different career change.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, that was it.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: So how long ago was that, Mike?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um 11 years.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm in well, I'm in my 11th year of business.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have to like check, honestly, Julie, I have to check my LinkedIn profile to find out like when did this all start?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we were the we did the first academy run after the new qualifications came in for industry, so really early doors of the academy.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a bit of a different beast now.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, never look back.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Love it, absolutely love my idea.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously your sister was an IFA, but did you really know much about the profession, the industry before you started?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I'd say that's a blessing because I didn't know anything about it, and I'd say 11 years ago it was probably still a slightly tarnished profession in regards to how kind of the old style of advice used to be.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when I was a kid, my you know, some bloke knocking on my mum and dad's door at six o'clock at night.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be sat trying to play the mega drive, maybe disturbing us.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um I didn't know uh enough about it, probably to go into it, but I trusted what Andrina had said, I trusted what my sister said, which is you'll be good at it and you'll enjoy it because you're seeing people.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And any job I've ever done when I reflect back on it, whether that's product-led sales, whether it's working in the pub, whether it's working at the college, the people are the bit that I've enjoyed.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I just thought as long as I can reskill, which took a bit of time.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: My ROs weren't as simple as maybe other people's may have been.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I thought I'd be fine.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: So what what did that academy process look like for you?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Mine started quite interestingly.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: I failed R01, which is the ethics and regulation exam.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not because I don't know, I understand ethics and regulations, to clarify that.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's just because it's so dull.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a dull exam.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing you can link it to.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you've not in the industry, you're reciting information, like that's all I could do.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I certainly didn't come out with great A level, so it was like getting back into education was hard enough.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up failing that a few times and moving, I had to take the exam in London on the Friday, and the academy started on the Monday.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember distinctly remember passing it, walking out, walking up towards Hyde Park, ringing my mum, and she answered the phone and went, Don't even worry about it.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Mam, bloody hell, I've passed.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then I came and had a bit of a weekend on the beers, and then realised I had to be back in London on the Monday.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: The academy itself is really interesting because we had, I think there's 26 in the room.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one chap who I'd say kind of look and felt like me, similar age group, he's one of my best mates.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now we stay in touch, he's got a practice ever in Cardiff, um, and then total mixed bag, an absolute mixed bag of people.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and at the time, I think the academy was built around passing exams.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Luckily, I had I'd already done all the BD, like I'd I'd been in, I'd been working long enough because I would have been what 31 at the time.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've been working with people all my life.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'd started in a pub at 16 years old, so I wasn't really bothered there was no soft skills, but I think a lot of people who came out of the academy back then really struggled with the where's all the other part of the job, because it certainly didn't teach you how to be a financial advisor.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_04: I think the theory of it and the practicality, two completely different things.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_04: I think I've seen over the years as well.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and it's really good to keep you on a straight line to understand you know the regulation, make sure you're doing the job properly, um, but probably wasn't in-depth enough of it's a hard job.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like we have the two we joke about this, but like we've had tears in the office, we've had laughter in the office, we've celebrated stuff.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's it can be horrendous if it it's not going right for people.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: They don't give you any of that.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: So if you come out of an academy and the first client you're seeing something that's like really meaningful, or something that matters to you, even if the client can handle it, you've still got to go through that meeting.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not a skill you can teach, I guess.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: But we weren't even pre-warned about some of the stuff you come across in in life because you think it's finance and it's not, it's life.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, how how how did you go about building up that?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: I know you said you got a BD background and things like that, but it's probably a different type of conversation, a more emotional conversation at times, perhaps with your clients in a financial display.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, probably.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think at the college it was probably a little bit like that because the majority of business owners we work with at the college were smaller businesses, so it's their livelihood.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it you could tell it meant a lot to them what they were trying to achieve.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: More so obviously, in this than then, but but still it was quite personal.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I quite like people, it's like a big motivator for me.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm quite an like I always say nosy, inquisitive is the better command of the English language, inquisitive person, and I think um ultimately uh probably 70 or 80% of people who come and have a conversation have got something on their mind, so it's it's a it often feels like a bit of a release where people could just talk to you and they're getting something off their chest.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not as hard, it's not as hard to as people probably think to get the information out of the client.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's just hard to understand what they're actually saying.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: They'll tell you, but are you picking it up right?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think is the skill that you need to understand.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, slow and steady.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like we had no rush, I wasn't bothered.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: At one point, I almost got thrown out because I was that slow at getting new clients on board.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I knew what I was doing, it was get it right and do the job properly and just take your time with it.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I think over time we've got better, without a shadow of a doubt.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I think maybe it's just family background, money's always been uh not sparse, but like we've understood the importance of it.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we've just always just taken that care with everything we do with our clients as well.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_04: Can you remember your first client meeting?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um my first one probably not because yeah.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was wondering if you put backwards number one.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: I can say I can really distinctly remember a client meeting, but because at the beginning you had to go through, you know, like make sure you're doing the job properly, read the paperwork through properly, make sure everything's presented properly.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: You had somebody from SJP kind of ticking the boxes.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So ultimately, the first probably 10 meetings were fabricated, like they were friends or people who were just giving me a shot.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: So they weren't that important.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't necessarily reflect those being the important ones.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: The first meeting I ever went to where somebody completely randomly found me on the internet.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I remember that.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and how did that go?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Great, yeah, it went really well, and I didn't think it did, but obviously they had never experienced a financial advisor, so what they saw is what they saw.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're still clients.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: We've never still clients and he was a fascinating bloke, so he'd uh worked in uh all sorts of industries like a change manager.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm all I'm already in now.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking this is a great conversation.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: His wife was lovely, she was retired already, he was retiring, and um, but they signed up for some pension work.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: He was trying to retire to get some money out of his pension, and I wasn't qualified to do it, so I had to get another advisor to sit in on that meeting.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: After I left that meeting, this is why I remember the meeting more.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: So he signed all the paperwork, that was fine.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: After I left the meeting, that advisor turned around to me and went, There you go, you're now self-employed.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you'll never have a night's sleep, not worrying where your next income's coming from.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, you aren't doing the job right, mate, because I'll be absolutely fine.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that that sits me forever because that's not what it's about.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's just just do a good job and the rest follows.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I remember that one.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, it wasn't my first, but it was very early on in my career.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Very early on.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a good meeting.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: And they're lovely people, really nice people, and still clients.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a few, like there's a few things like that that I remember.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: I've got another client who was early doors when we moved into Brunswick Square, our first office, and he was going through uh a divorce, and we were doing a pension showing order.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we used to have a board on the office wall that was like a whiteboard.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And at one point we had a bit of paper on the bottom because we've got so many clients we're working with.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like all a bit exciting.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is probably around the same time.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I won't say his name, obviously.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Although he wouldn't care because he he is he is again a brilliant client of ours, like lovely chap.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and in the letter, we I was still in kind of like really formal days.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's a paragraph that said, also, you should maximize your ISA.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, it's probably like a half million pound pension transfer.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a big ticket when you're when you're brand new to financial advice.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we were used to helping people like 30,000, 40,000 pounds who were, you know, who were friends who were saying, Oh, I'll I'll invest with you, Alex, because I trust you and let's just see how things go.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And in the letter it said, you know, max out your ISA.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And he went, Oh, should we do that today as well?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I honestly remember like almost sweating, going, I didn't know we'll do that another day.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just get this letter done, like really kind of just sign that paperwork.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd worked so hard to get it right.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think the month before, we'd we'd probably I probably were in like£120 worth of business.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And me and Andrina, who worked in the business, ended up popping down to a little coffee shop, buying a couple of beers and a bottle of Prosecco to celebrate the fact that we made 120 quid because it was so early in the business.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um, he's still a great client to this day.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I told him this story about three years ago, and he loved it because he was like, I would have never known, but for me, that'll sit with me forever.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_04: I hope he's done his life so every year since.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, do you know what?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: He's so he works.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um he's of he's an this is what I love about our job because we you meet people from all different walks of works of life.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: He works in like uh IP law and he loves uh IP and toys, which is just a bit quirky.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then he got into like tech, and he's he's a he's incredibly intelligent guy.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So he's now he's he's he invests privately as well as with us in all sorts of crazy stuff.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: So his his ICER isn't his driver, he's he's in some weird and wonderful stuff, which I love catching up with him about because it's fantastic that's just fascinating.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: I could waffle on for hours.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: I did pre-warn you.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Quite interesting to hear you talk about how the academy was quite technical in terms of what it was trying to teach you.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because when we had a bit of a look on your website, and your website really focuses on objectives, needs, goals rather than products and outcomes.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Where does that come from for you?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why is that important to you and why do you position the client relationship like that?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: I do know what the fact you've looked at our website, we're we're redoing our website.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: I hate ours.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, bespoke financial planners.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like who's not?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or trusted?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've still not come to a website where somebody goes, We're not trusted, but you should still use us.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um where does it come from?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Probably just life, I guess.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly don't know.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: My mum, my mum worked in finance at Debs as a FD, but I never really saw any of a job.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: My dad was a mental health and social care worker for all of his life.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And when we grew up, my mum used to work nights, my dad used to work days until they kind of got set up behind them.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we've been around family, been around mates.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I there's it like I always it's a bit of a you can't go down the rabbit hole too far, but like, what's the point?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're only here once, like let's just enjoy life a little bit.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I've never I've I've not known any different.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't understand the point of having money doesn't bring happiness, but it gives people a resource to do things that make them feel at peace or whatever it is.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: It certainly makes life easier.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care what anyone says it does, it could bring problems, but it can also make life easier.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've never really known any different.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't I've never understood why I just not looked at it at products.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, I I think it's an absolute blessing that I've come from a different walk of life.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: So when I worked at the college and I was helping people, I like this guy's actually a client, but he worked for a company in Forester Dean that were uh you bring up the phone, and if your car broke down, they try and talk you through it, and then they get the A or get somebody out to come and see if it's a warranty problem or not.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And getting talking to him, I was like, Why wouldn't you get those staff members on the phone into the college to look at the vehicles under the bonnet?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they might be on the phone, but wouldn't they feel more confident if they'd actually experienced it?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, it's great.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we put a whole training programme together on it.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I didn't.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: One of my mates, Mike, did the whole training program.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: But like listening to that mic do it that way, just made me think, yeah, that's it.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's about the person, not about the the job.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like the person on the end of that phone's gonna feel confident talking to the person who's broken down on the side of the road.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Person on the broken down the side of the road is gonna feel confident that they're talking to somebody who knows what they're doing.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I've just always worked in that way.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: So the product's the tool, but you can have two people are exactly the same family makeup, same income, same everything, but their goals could be completely different.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: By definition, the same product can't work for both of them.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: And how do your clients respond to that?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because my my initial gut reaction is a lot of people in our or expect of our industry that it's a salesperson trying to come in and flog them something, yeah, essentially.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: But your ethos is very different to that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm guessing clients are quite responsive to that.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we we we built uh you know, until six, eight weeks ago, we built an entirely organic business.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So every client's been referred, or we've we've been out and met them.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think they've got an idea of who we are before they'd even met us.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um clients, I think clients are really receptive to it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think they do I don't think, I know, because we've asked this question before, their expectation of what financial advice is and then the end result wildly different.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they've even you know, we've we've asked this question, and they say, No, I thought we were coming in to do pensions or investments.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: What you've actually showed us is you're trying to move our money around so you can actually have a brilliant life.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um so they're quite I I think clients are quite receptive, but I do also think by nature, therefore, those clients introduce you to the next client, to the next client, to the next client, to the next client.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we have very few.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I genuinely would struggle to think of a client who is their foremost focus in a meeting is the value of their investments.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, really, really would have to think about it.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: The question is like, what can I still do all the stuff I want to do?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, am I in a good place?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's that emotional piece that that they kind of hook into.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that just happens by osmosis.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we we practice what we preach in the client, like I in the in the office.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'll holiday as often as I can by time my clients up because I'm not ashamed of it.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: I can have the money in the bank or I can go and enjoy it.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: We try and encourage their clients to enjoy their life, but if their view is they they want to hoard it because they're fearful, then we'll help them hoard it.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: It makes no odds to me, it's just about what they want to do, and not put your own, I guess, personal beliefs on it.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: We do encourage holidays because why not?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Las Vegas, namely.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_04: But how do you react when you've got a client and you think, okay, I've listened to what you said, I've understood what what your your objectives are, this is what I think you should do, and then they say I hear you, but I'm not I'm not gonna do that.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_04: How do you handle that?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_04: Talking about my mum.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, I've had two advisors that have left our practice for that exact reason.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I I I know for a fact both of them left because they could not deal with the I'll say it because I speak idiocy of somebody being told coming to you for advice, asking for your help, being told what the right thing is, and then going, Yeah, I'm not gonna do that.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's about as daft as you can be, no matter what it is.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like if someone's if you if you drove in your car and they said if you carry on driving that the wheel's gonna fall off and you carried on, then you're an idiot.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: You you'd fix it.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, they won't be a client.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a bit of a hard and fast rule that if we're not looking after all your money, we're not helping you.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not to say that they need us to invest it all, but I need to know about it.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because early doors, we'd go back to a client and say, look, we've saved you this£15,000 in emergency fund and we've left you this cash to and they're oh, didn't tell you, but I've already done that.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's like okay, now I've got to redo everything.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we're we're really like, I want everything on the table, no hidden stuff.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then if they don't go ahead, we don't budge.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we'll do everything we can not to move on.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't have sat in front of you if it wasn't right.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that doesn't mean we won't change the advice.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I say that is because you've got to be fair to the client, they might not have thought of something after you've given them a load of thought-provoking questions.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: So when they then come back and you say, Right, this is all the stuff that you're gonna do, and it wobbles them because they're like, Oh, I'm a bit nervous, I thought I'd have a bit more of a security blanket, or I know I told you I wanted to do a gift for somebody, but it's not really that important to me.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'll change the advice, but I won't move on it.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it's not right to.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: We're advising, we're not taking orders.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're not, not the profession.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_04: That's why I ask because I see that quite often, which is advisors don't have confidence in their own recommendations.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_04: So when they're challenged by the client, they change it to please the client, but it's actually uh makes the client happy in the short term, but longer term it isn't necessarily the right thing, is it?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, and you've got to you've got to own it.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think those people shouldn't be advising.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like a hundred percent, you shouldn't in any profession, doesn't matter if whatever it is, you you know yeah, uh literally every profession.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not if you you shouldn't be giving people advice if you actually don't have faith in what you're doing, financial services in particular, but legal, whether you're a chef, it doesn't really matter, you just should be doing it.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's two things there for me is it's a hard industry to hold your nerve on because markets can move.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're conf I I I'd never look at my investments, I couldn't care less.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter because I know where they are and I know when I need them, but that's easy because it's my day job.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll again I'll use an example of this.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: One of our clients, um, early doors was doing a pension transfer for the fine benefit.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: He'd retired and he wanted to get access to it at 55.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: It would have whacked him if he'd taken it as a pension um at 55, so he converted it into an investment so he could start taking it.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he's he's living I think it would have been about 36 grand a year, he's now living on 100 grand a year, he's having a great life and it's all working.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: But COVID hit, and COVID hit about 18 months after he'd invested the best part of 1.7 million pounds.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: So he saw, if I'm a betting man, probably 300 grand drop off his investments in the space of a very short amount of time.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And when I first presented the device to him, he went away.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Then he then he accepted it, then he questioned the fees, and in the interim, he'd been to see somebody from the proof.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And they'd offered to transfer his advice, but only pay for ongoing advice if he needed him.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas we have an ongoing fee running all the time.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And he rang me and told me this.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I need to meet you in Bristol.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: I need to have a conversation with you.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, What for?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I you know I think I know where I'm at.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: I said, You're absolutely wrong.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Don't care what you say.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I I'd honestly wouldn't even take the money off you.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Please do not do that.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Go and find a third option.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when he walked into the office in Bristol, his wife was in tears.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: She came up, gave me a massive hug, and just lent in my ear and went, I really hope he chooses to do this with you, Alex.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, fine, sat down.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Why do you think I'm here?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And he went, Well, because you're going to try and argue your fees.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: I said, There's nothing to do with the fees.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: You have told me all along you're absolutely nervous as anything.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Let me paint the story for you.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: You get invested, 10% falls off it, and then you've got to pay to see an advisor.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you've just lost 170 grand, and now you've got to hand out even more money to see somebody.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: You won't do it.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: All right, good plan.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: He then became a client.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Then it actually happened.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And he begged me to move all of his money into cash and I wouldn't do it.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I wouldn't do it.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, We got to a weekend, and with St.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: James's place, the investment returns, you're seeing, we're seeing the day, he was seeing the day behind.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew what was coming.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I said to him, What happened if over the weekend those investments went up by like 30 grand?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: How annoyed would we be if I moved him into cash?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, I'd be really annoyed.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: I knew that I was about right.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'll ring you on Monday then.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I rang him on Monday and I said, Oh God, you'd never believe this.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: But those are going up by all right, I'll sit still, I'll sit still, I'll sit still.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he did, and he's golden.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, as everyone knows, off the back of COVID, markets absolutely rocketed.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And he, if we were a weak advisor, I would have ruined that, genuinely ruined his life because he would have sat in cash.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: He could have never got back in because what he would have done is watched it go up and then think it will come back down.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: So he would have always sat in cash.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: But also financially, he he needed the markets to come up.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: He would not have been able to live his life without investing.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's that was the plan from day one.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's always been the plan.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: He's got to stick to it.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it's easy.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: For him, it was like an emotional challenge.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that that is the channel.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I think I don't find it difficult to push back because I know the impact of doing the wrong thing.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: And when it comes to complex advice, because our industry is complex, there's no getting away from it at times.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: How when you're sitting across from someone who doesn't have the background you have, doesn't have the qualifications you have, and probably doesn't talk about money day to day, how do you go about trying to convey some of these more complex scenarios back to the client in a way they can understand and engage with?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh a draw them.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: So interestingly, Liam's picked up on this as well, he's one of the advisors in the practice and peers, and I think Emilia even, I draw them out.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I think everything I'm quite a visual person.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Our industry is complex because we choose to make it complex.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: The A to B is the A to B, but going back to that starting point of I've got some money, I really don't want to pay loads of inheritance tax, but I'd love the kids to have it when I pass away.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I can go through all the fact sheets of uh specific trusts, but the client doesn't really care about that.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: What they want to know is sorry, Alex, if I'm doing this, does that work?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's absolutely fine.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I'll still draw it out for them, I'll still show them where their money's going and what it all looks like.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: We I interestingly, I tried to do something to build our profiles to understand who we were as people for the team so client so we can kind of engage with the right type of clients.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: And mine came back.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're using a bit of technology.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Mine came back and said, You've got all of this right, but you you don't go anywhere near enough to command like uh the outside world to think you know what you're on about because I'm just not technical enough, so I'm not giving those learning lessons, which we're we're working on, but I'm still going to do it without the technical stuff because I don't think it's important.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I yeah, I think the the the reality is like as long as you're showing the client they're getting from A to B, most of them don't want to know.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Most of our clients don't want to know.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: The clients who really, really want the devil in the detail.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not the right advisor.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Go to Liam because Liam loves the devil in the detail, but can also he can swing more my way.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: I find it hard to swing that way into that detail because I'm not bothered about the product, I'm bothered about the outcome, and it's just a different way to be.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: One of my most common social media posts on LinkedIn is probably winding somebody up about the 60% tax trap.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm like, God, shut up.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody cares.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like what they care about is is their money in the right place.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: But the amount of times I go, oh you know, if you live in London and you earn£110,000, do you know all this?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Who cares?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: What you could say is, do you know what?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: You could have a banging holiday in 20 years if you lob 10 grand in your pension.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that sounds like something I want to do, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Let's have a conversation there.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you can lose the technical stuff, I think, with most people, or at least I try to.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's an interesting point there.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: You talk around not a right client for you, but you've now got advisors in the practice who they may be.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever, over the last 10 years, actually sat down with a client and turned around and said, actually, you're not one for me, this isn't gonna work, and pass the opportunity off.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: From day one.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: From day one, I did that.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: Which is quite unusual because a lot of people at the beginning, it's all about I need to generate fees, I need to start having that income coming in.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a really simple bloke in the sense that I like a holiday and a cold beer.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, from a from an income point of view, I I think the outside world would be shocked at what I take out of our business.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need it.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a real like years and years ago, uh, someone told me to read a book um called 59 Seconds, and it's part of that book and part of just like life in general is like, are you happy?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I mean by that for me, I'm happy going on a few holidays, I'm happy spending time with my mates, I'm happy having a cold beer, I'm happy to send time with my wife.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Don't need all the rest of the stuff.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I either put that back into the business um or we spend it on client stuff, or goes with my pension because I don't want to pay the tax.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because why would you pay a tax if you don't need to pay a tax?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_04: You don't want to pay 60%, do you?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly not.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm nowhere near 60%, I'm fairly near higher rate.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I'm quite a simple bloke.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: But the the the kind of reason to turn then turn people away is I haven't needed the money, and that's not because I'm flash, but because when I was training, I'd I I said I'd I'd broken up with a partner and I had some cash.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I'd better off living in that and building the right foundations than giving the client the wrong advice and it coming back to bite me, as you alluded to earlier, Julie.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I it it's never been something I've ever got into.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: I've had clients who have sat opposite and thought, I don't like you, I don't like your moral fabrics, I don't like the way you are.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Not that they're wrong, they're just different to mine.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is what my dad's always taught me.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: You you need to be like conscious of like things like political views and all that kind of stuff.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, they're they're ingrained in a lot of people.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's no point, you're just gonna bang edge later on down the line.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: I can't be bothered with it, and it shouldn't be, it's not right for them.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember a client really early doors that that was the response we gave.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I'd sit with him and said, Look, I just don't think this isn't gonna work out, it's not right.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: His daughter rang me up.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: So what if you said to me, Dad, because she is a client, she said, I don't read.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: I can I swear on this podcast or not, I won't.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she said, Don't worry, my dad's a bit of a something.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you can have a guess one afterwards.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you can have a guess.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And he then went and spoke to an IFA, and I I chased him because I'd said to him, Look, morally get the right advice.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Not with me, but make sure they're doing what I've told you you could do.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: And they weren't.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: So he then didn't do anything because he he he wasn't happy that I told him that we didn't get on.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't like me.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: He he quite openly said, I don't I didn't like sitting in front of him.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Well, I don't like your the the way you are with me, so that's fine.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Let me don't you know everyone has to get on.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then he came back to us this year.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: So this was probably seven years ago, he's come back to me this year, and he's a changed bloke.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: I really like him, and I I didn't dislike him, I just thought this isn't gonna work.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: A bit of a clash, yeah, because he was pushing on the advice I was giving.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so he was one that wasn't gonna take the advice, so it wasn't about his personality, we were just gonna clash on the fact that I knew I was right, and he thought what he was.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: No, well, I didn't think he was right, he just couldn't settle with what I'd give him as advice, and until I could get him comfortable, I felt like he would have put pen to paper, but something would have gone wrong that he would have always gone, I'll sign it, but I don't really feel 100% comfortable until he said he was.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: We weren't gonna sign any paperwork, yeah.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I've done that, and I'd encourage anyone to do that.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Don't work with people you don't want to work with.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Life's too short.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_04: Just going back to what you said about Liam having a sort of different approach to you.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: Do you think that's quite important when you're expanding the business to get different personality types in so that you've kind of got a breadth in the business?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_04: And have you done that consciously or has it just happened?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there's been a bit conscious more recently.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Some of it's just happened.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Some of it, we're all different anyway, aren't we?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: As humans are all different.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the the it helps having multiple skill sets in the office because clients are different.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: But equally, I remember doing something, uh, one of those kind of insights where you have your four different personalities.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone can guess whichever one you want to, for me.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it got to lunchtime and nobody really explained why we were doing it.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I could see we're all doing it.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a classic where someone's like a red, and he got up halfway through the morning and was like, Oh yeah, I'm a red, so I can be a bit of a obnoxious.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, No, it doesn't give you the right to be a prat, it just means you'll you're more domineering than others in direct.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, take note, Dave.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm I'm a I'm I'm really high red, really high yellow, really low green, really low blue.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: But what motivates me is seeing my team happy.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a bit of a weird one.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a conscious of subconscious anyway.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I asked the question, I was like, Well, what the hell are we doing here?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't, I'm just wasting me morning.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to run a business.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Oh, it's so when you sit in front of a client, you can adapt the way you are so you they feel more comfortable with you.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I couldn't get my head around it.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, No, I just wouldn't work with that person because if I've got to put a false face on every time I see this person for the next 20 years, some of it's gonna slip.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna slip at some point, isn't it?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just come work with the people who are like me and they'll like me better, and then everyone's happy.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think it's really beneficial for that reason because it allows us to help more people because you can you shouldn't only be a client if you can get on with me.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's ridiculous.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: So have if they want financial advice, it's better that they've got options to speak to, definitely.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, but Liam came to us.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Liam's a geek, like he loves his detail, but he's quite he's a very personal guy as well.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: He just gets in the weeds, but he consciously have to get out of them, and I constantly I consciously have to be more detailed because I'm a bit too free and easy.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we focus a lot on those initial client relationships, but obviously, quite a big thing for the industry is ongoing advice and lots of well-publicised issues with that over the last couple of years.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: But for you and where you put the client at the heart of what you do, what does your ongoing proposition look like for your clients?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you keep that going?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: I for those who don't know about the ongoing issues, I think you should highlight it.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's it's been absolutely disastrous for loads of firms, they haven't been doing their job.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I highlighted this in front of a bunch of financial advisors.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: I said, if you took your car to a garage today, this did this went down like an absolute lead balloon.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: If you took your car to a garage today and then you got back in the evening and said, Oh, how much is it?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they went, Oh, it's 400 quid.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you went, well, if you've done it, oh nothing, mate, it's just been part there all day.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: You'd be fuming about paying 400 quid.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: So don't question when you've been asked why you've not done the advice.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: You haven't done it, you've been paid, give the money back.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's fair.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: We have had no complaints in our entire practice, and and and that that is to me is a decent measure.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: It annoys me to the end of the earth because it's what I hate about our industry.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is we you know, we spoke about it earlier, that's what I want out of it.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because people, we're talking to a local school, and at the moment we're on the ropes because of the relationship we have with St.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: There are partners in St.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place who weren't doing a great job that got big press because you you're going to hammer a national firm, but there are in every uh independence, quilts, you name it, they're all you know, it exists.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, but that's wobbled people to come and talk to me because of something I've never done.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that that annoys me about this ongoing service in peace.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: I wish you could almost publicize somewhere like you know, like have a big sign above your head, this is what we do for our clients.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we've always just done it right.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we never had like a rule about whether it has to be annually or not annually.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: We've always made sure we've told the client why we're doing it because I want them to keep an idea of why they're even engaging with us and also to challenge us.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you don't challenge us, we'll just you know, we you could run the risk of being mediocre.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: I say to the guys all the time, there's nothing wrong with being like a six or a seven out of ten, but what's the fun in it?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's be a nine and let's go after it, and like let's be let's always try and get better.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, most of our clients come to our offices, so we've made a real effort to make the offices really nice.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if we go to them, we'll we'll see our clients when they need us, wherever they need us, and there's no hard and fast rules.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I was explaining earlier on some of my clients are going to be passed on to the other advisors.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Such a hard decision because I really like them and I want to see that journey out, as we were also talking about earlier on.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not the right thing for me to be selfishly looking after them because I just want to see the story when the client could be getting better advice because they're getting better attention and more time with a different advisor who's got more capacity.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: We'll never change that.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like we absolutely live on the client's got to be looked after permanently from start to finish until they don't need us effectively.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um but do you regard the client as being looked after by a particular advisor in the firm or by Keyside as a whole anyway?
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, or is it?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_04: Even if one of your clients now moves to one of your other advisors, you've not lost touch completely.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: We do summer events, we do Christmas parties, we see we you know we'll see the clients anyway, but definitely won't have lost touch completely.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Our we our I think it was like our second or third most common word on our Google reviews was team.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that's clients writing, and they've chosen that you know by chance that this is what they've said about us, which is amazing to see anyway, because we I'm trying to breed this culture of you know, like people who actually care.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it's still hard to do, like even though they're still around and I'm still going to see them.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the stuff that our clients have gone through and come out the other side of, you you don't finish it.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_04: Financial advice, you think it's very technical, but actually it is such a personal thing that you have to you have to understand the person to understand the financial position.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's where I think like you know, earlier on saying you carry that.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's something you don't get trained.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: There are definite times where our clients probably don't fully realise everyone all the way through the team where we'll sit and have a beer after work and we'll be talking about something that's happened, and maybe that client's not even got it on their mind, but we have as a team because you can't not, it's a very personal job, yeah.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: And do you segment your clients at all, or does everybody get the same service?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um everyone's got access to the same service without a doubt.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like we never it don't matter, it don't care how much money they got, don't care.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: The bits of what's important to them, so how much do they need us?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't move that at all.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's tapering in charges, so typically speaking, the more money you've got, the lower your cost as a percentage are, because it's got to be fair.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we'll we'll we'll have different experiences for different clients, but that's based on their needs.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if someone's 30 years old, putting 500 quid a month into their pension, we'll definitely make sure we're catching up with them having a conversation.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: But if I look at my I've got a client who's 99 this year, and his wife's 94, and sadly, he's deteriorated uh quickly in regards to his mental well-being, he's physically alright.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: He always used to manage the money.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care how much that my time they need, I don't care if it's costing me money to see him.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: That then if they need our help, they need our help.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's really difficult to be hard and fast on segmenting because what do you do?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sorry, you've had your annual review, I'll see you later on.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're just not that way inclined.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which commercially might sound daft.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really care what anyone thinks about how we run our business commercially.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's our life.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like if we can come out the other side and think I've enjoyed running this business, I'm quite happy.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think our clients think we're really fair with it because from their point of view, if they think you know, if they think logically about it, that'll be them one day.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: They'll be the one that needs more of our time than they might do this year, yeah.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we just you know, you just roll through the motions over 30 years of working with people or 40 years or however long it is.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: And in terms of your client interactions, we're seeing more and more tools being promoted for using with clients, engaging clients, giving them more information.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: How are you using anything in particular or in your client meetings, cash flows, your voyance, other tools?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: What what does it look like?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um cash flow modelling we've done for I I can't remember the guy's name, I wish I could.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: It might pop in my head in a minute.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um Carl Edwards, Carl Richards, Richards.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember uh everyone at St.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: James's place banging on about Carl Rich gun.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is amazing.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: This guy's and I'm sat there thinking, I reckon I could have written a book.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we're already doing this.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: This guy's now getting like and and fair play, look it's it's a great model, but we would we were doing that, you know.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: We've I think we got introduced to Voyant, which is what we use.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I couldn't tell you years and years and years ago.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was using that when I was on my own.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, at the time, probably with specific clients rather than all clients, but now every single client gets cash flow modelling.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: And again, for those listening don't fully understand it.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh for me, the purpose of cash flow modelling is to go chill out, everything's gonna be alright.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: It'll work, or wake up and smell the coffee a little bit, let's get on with something here because you can't keep doing what you're doing.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: I read a really interesting uh uh social media post the other day, it was saying about tax the wealthy and this, that, and the other.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: And somebody put a comment saying it's that's a mindset thing because the person who thinks they're not wealthy but spending£800 a month on a car, they're not wealthy because they're spending£800 a month on a car.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Do they need an£800 a month car or could they get a£200 a month car?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you start saving£600 a month for the next 30 years, they probably will be wealthy at some point, and that's what that cash flow modeling does.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: It allows people to make choices.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: And going back to the point earlier, Julia, where you said, Do we have a push back?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's not always about pushing back, it's just about making them realise.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because if they turn around to me and say, Tough look, I'm gonna have this flash car and I'm gonna go on all these holidays, and I get I'm gonna have a problem.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: At least I can say, Well, we've had that chat, you you're that's what you're committing to, but nothing's gonna change.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'll help you with a bit you need insurance or whatever it may be.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: But if you don't change, that won't change, and we'll be looking at a massive red blot on your plans until later on.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great tool.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: I and again, if you're a financial advisor not using cash flow modelling, you're definitely not doing the job as well as you could be.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_04: I use Voyant quite often in um estate planning because traditionally it's been used to show a client that you need to put more in your pension, otherwise you won't have enough later.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_04: Look, you've got all this red at the end.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_04: I use it in the opposite way, which is you've already got more money than you're ever going to spend.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_04: And actually, I've modelled to show that you could afford to gift away some capital here, or you could do um loan trust and gift away the growth.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_04: And look, it's still okay right up until age 100.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's that peace of mind thing.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's what that's what allows people to realise is like, is your money in the right place at the right time when you use it?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but going back to not being detailed or detailed, um obviously in an email.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: I bet you don't put the detail on it.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: You pulled me up uh and said, ask for these.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I got requested for these like five different reports, and it made what we'd normally provide is like a six or seven page report to like a 30-page report.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: But what we've learned from that is what we should probably check is again going back to segmenting clients, what does that client value?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because if I gave a report with loads of detail in it to some of my clients, they'd be thinking this feels too much, it's confusing, but some clients do want to see it.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's fine.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_04: Some people like to see the working rather than the end result, don't they?
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_04: Definitely.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just finding the right um thing.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: But so, yes, cash flow modelling, we use AI for meeting recordings.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um the prime example sat with a client who told me that they were going on holiday to Disney and taking their son and the grandkids.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, amazing.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: I went to Disney as a kid, jumped in, and at the end of it, it said taking our son for his 30th birthday.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, he definitely didn't say that.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: This thing's making stuff up.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but because I got so excited and jumped in on the conversation, I hadn't heard it.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the reason we use it isn't to make our life easier, it's to be better for our clients.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: I want to hear everything and I want to make sure we're doing the right thing by our clients.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're only human, use the tools available to you.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, and the the AI one's quite interesting because I was talking to an advisor last week and they were saying as much as they're trying to use it, they're also seeing clients trying to use it as well.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm wondering, are you coming across that?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: The example they gave was they'd put something forward and the client come back with, I've asked ChatGPT and it says I should have done this.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: Why haven't you said that?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: Have you come across that yet with any of your clients?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I have.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um is Chat GPT becoming your biggest competitor?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what you can knock it out of the park so quickly?
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: So one of my clients emailed me and said, This exactly that basically, these are the things we're doing.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not sure I'm getting the value out of the advice.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Ironically, he was a costly client because he was he was a lot of time needed, not huge amounts of investments.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: But at his point, that's what prime example he needed it.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: He then sent me an email that was clearly AI asking for all this information.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, right, I'll provide it.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of it, I said, Listen, just have a conversation with me.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Using AI to get this detail isn't going to get you what you think it is.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he's a bit of a tech geek.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: His response was then, you're right.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: Using AI is such a great way to get this information.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: So then I replied, going, the irony of the fact that an email hasn't been answered correctly, isn't lost on me.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Let's have a chat.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: He then replied, going, right, I've decided I'm going to go and self-invest all my money.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, you know what?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Off your pop.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: Really, that's fine because I can't bother to have an argument with you.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're wrong.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I did send him a really strongly worded email saying, please, whatever you do, continue to do this.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do not cancel this, do not change this, because these are all the reasons we did it at the outset.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um he then, I then got the notifications that cancelled three of his insurances.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I gave him an email saying, And I don't need to do this, you're not another client anymore, so you fill your boots.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I did, and I went back and said, please, if you haven't replaced them, for God's sake, put these back on.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because whether AI tells you or not, your life hasn't changed.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: You've asked it something that's prompted you to save money.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if you said, I don't like the idea of it, anyway, didn't listen, never went back on.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: So touchwood, he's fine.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he will be because he's strong-minded, and this is what I hate about AI.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: So then I thought I'll do a social media post on this, and I never got it out because it was too long.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I went on to ChatGPT and said, thinking of retiring early, uh, how what's the best way to save my money?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it said, Oh, you should save into a pension, it's really tax-efficient, these are all the reasons, blah, blah, blah.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I don't really like pensions.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, don't worry, if you don't like pensions, you should invest into an ICE.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really tax-efficient way to save your lifetime.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, I don't know what I'm not really into investing.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds a bit risky.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, risky.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: It can be risky.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: What you could do is this by the end of my conversation, I was happily whacking my money in premium bonds.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, or it could be worse, it could have been a suitcase under the bed.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: But but how ridiculous is it that what what the point of that piece of, I'm not saying I won't get cleverer, but that what you're doing is unintentionally prompting something to give you the answer you want.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: And he could not see you done that, and I was screaming at him to tell him, but he wasn't going to listen.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, I've got clients over here who want my advice.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't want it, that's fine.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we are seeing it, not often, because I think the relationships that I've got with our clients are they understand that there's an emotion in the room, not just a QA.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's a fancy Google, innit?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: ChatGPT is of all the AIs you'd use, and as I say, we're working with an AI consultant at the moment, her view of chat GPT is it's the first to market, but the one you should avoid.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's also the one most people have heard of.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: First to market.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and how moving away from specific clients for a little bit, um, the business as a whole and your role in a local community, how do you see that for your practice?
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they all have to do something for the community all the time.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: So early doors always done stuff for charity, like it's important.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: Bizarrally always done, well not bizarrely, we've always done stuff for kids' charities.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't even got kids uh yet, but it it's just it just feels like they're the ones that probably can't help themselves, children.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we've done loads of fundraisers, done loads of community stuff.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: We do stuff with local schools, uh, we make sure the team get out.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was part of Gloucester bid on the board.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we try and engage with local companies, really, because that is the next part of our story, right?
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: So if the schools have got, if we're supporting the schools in whatever way we can, the schools are educating children, the children are going to come into our community, they're gonna look for jobs.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's our next employees, so it's the right thing to do.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if there's requirements for charitable stuff, we're fortunate enough to not be in need of it, so give when you can give.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we tell our clients to do the same.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we're quite we did a run a few years ago, and someone came up with the great idea of saying, Why don't we get our clients to put their name on the shirt and we'll give them a chat on social media?
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I literally, my my email was, I know how much money you've got, so you can definitely afford this.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Please donate£100 to this charity.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the link.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: And they all did, literally, every single email did.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think a lot of people for charity like the idea of giving, find it difficult to find an outlet.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so actually, we try and be that conduit to make them give us some cash.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then just generally, you know, it's our uh we're Gloucester, so it's our city, we're moving into Techbury.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: We can't expect the community to support us in regards to being clients and you know, backing us and supporting us and referring to us if we're not going to give a beat a piece back.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's natural.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think we try hard at it I just think it's what you should be doing.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I this sounds like it's like that we don't try on and it sounds really daft, but I know somebody'll be on to us probably the next month or so about can we be your charity next year?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: We just say that's where we've ended up with with meningitis now this year, last year was Pine Piper.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um it looks great on the outside, but actually they asked, we said yeah.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's not all our work.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: And if if we asked your clients to describe you and their relationship with you, what would you want them?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: I suppose two questions.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think they would say, and what would you want them to say?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: And do you think they're the same thing?
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'd want them, I'd want them to have complete trust and faith in not just me the business.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, as you said earlier, Julia, like the I'd I'd love the idea of the fact that they feel like we're all looking after them.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: I want them to be confident in their money, um, so that they know that they've got it to you know enjoy and spend, not just hoard away.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'd probably really want them to feel part of something more than just a one-way relationship that's part of everything that we're doing as a business.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: We try and really share what we're doing.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: We went on a uh conference, uh, overseas conference earlier in the year, and when I was in the airport, uh phone rang.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Rich, one of my clients, a brilliant chap.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I feel um and can I help with anything?
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Uh no, um, you've been hiding from your team where you're going on holiday.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be the first client to know.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: If that's what your clients are like, you know, we have we have loads of emails and and messages from clients going, I love what you're doing.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: I really, if you trust your team to have an input into the business, it makes me feel confident that I'm being looked after by college people.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that I love, and so I do think we we're I'm not a million miles off with what I'd hope they say and what they do say, and I'd hope they all feel like they're getting value for what they get.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: In answer to the do I think they'd be saying it, everything but the confidence.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because 99% of them be confident, but ultimately it's the one thing that I think most people struggle with in finances is they can hear it from everybody, but you have you all different walks of life have got generations of information being ingrained in them, and you seek out what you want to hear.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we're doing a campaign, we're about to start a campaign about mum knows best, um, and it's about the fact that that generation that are you know, probably more like grandmums than mums, have told their children stuff, so that's ingrained in them.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're effectively selling them something that we shouldn't have an invested interest in, but I do.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: And mum and dad are gonna tell them something different, they're gonna listen to mum and dad before they're gonna listen to us.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: But what mum and dad don't realise is the world's changed completely.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the only thing that I I I wish we could do more of is almost just wave a magic wand for people to go, yeah, I get it right.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blindly following you because they should do, because we are right in what we do, like we work really hard at being right.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's an interesting point you say there about how clients have changed.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see because I assume you've got clients from quite young to you've mentioned someone 99.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: 99 and not yet one.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh that's genuinely what we've got, yeah.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: So do you see quite stark differences in what they want from you and their relationship with you?
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I think the relationships are all probably really similar in what they want from us.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I different, different objectives, so yeah, they they all have different goals, and even in those segments they have different goals.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say the bigger challenge is um convincing a certain generation to get rid of the premium bonds.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Still haven't met anyone who's met a million quid, and I wish them all the best, but come on.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, certain generations not not not gifting, but not spending, and not trusting their next gen, all because of what they've heard.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like my the four of us in my family, we're all sensible with money, but I'd be if I was a betting man, there's something in the back of my mum's head that thinks I could gift them money, but they're gonna be sensible with it.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: And they've got two uh two financial advisors in the family.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, there's Emma, like she's likes to spend.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: But but that's ingrained, right?
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's a cultural thing.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: They've they've I'm not suggesting they haven't, because I don't want to knock off an entire generation of people.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: But their view is they've worked really hard for their wealth, they've they did come through a really period of hard work, but actually their wealth's come from property and assets, not necessarily just the graph that they've done.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: But because they've got it and they had a lot less than we do now in regards to free money because it was tied up in property, they don't want to pass it down, but they also don't want to pay inheritance tax, and they want the balance of everything in between.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's that's a really difficult thing to be told by somebody when you're 60 that you especially their grandparents or their parents who've worked so hard, you now need to start doing something that you've never done before.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the psychology of money's funny, and and that that's you can see patterns.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: Not everyone's the same, but you can definitely see patterns through those generations.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then outside of their objectives, but in terms of the service they want for you, like we we hear a lot your 99-year-old client probably grew up where relationships mattered more, less technology, through to your, you know, the ones in their 20s and their 30s, they're used to living on their phones, they're a bit more insular, they've grown up in COVID where they all look to weigh, they like real-time information, they're used to going on apps and getting what they want now.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel that in your interactions with clients?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: That difference, yeah, definitely.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my 99-year-old's the only bloke I put a shirt and a tie on for.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: And apologies to all my other clients, but it's not that you're not worth it, it's just that like the respect is when I first ever turned up to his house, he didn't I'd describe it as like the Sunday best, like he'd got dressed up because he was meeting a professional.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: I went with the solicitor who turned up in his shorts, great mate of mine.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the solicitor introduced me, but throughout the whole meeting, um, the two clients were just giving him some sticks saying, 'Oh, nice to see you got dressed up for us today.' So it's kind of like just a mutual respect.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they don't uh I helped them, I literally had to help them log on to their online banking and do some stuff because they're like, Oh, we know we've got the password somewhere.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I I'm not doing the login on, but I'm just trying to guide them through it because they don't have their their daughter's 78, I think she is.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, like they and the daughter didn't have any kids.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: So there is no younger generation helping them with this stuff.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: The younger generation, you're absolutely right, they want to be on the tech.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: The problem's the industry, we're not fast enough, we don't move fast enough.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think anybody in the industry moves fast enough because I think the fintech startups are missing the generation who don't get it yet because they're starting up, and then the generation the the firms that are already here are so just like beasts to move, they're not working on the bottom end fast enough.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's definitely something that we have to we say all the time, but we're like uh make Keyside look like we're swans, don't let them know everything that's happening in that back office to get that data in the right places for the right people in a different way.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: There is no gap yet, there is no bridge, and there's firms that definitely tell us there is, and I have looked at them and I still don't think they're quite there.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting space to be in.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, to wrap up, we always like to ask a few more quick fire questions.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: So just one word or one line response.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: Las Vegas, also um, don't overthink any of them.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, what is the best piece of advice you've been given to build client relationships?
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: Ask for help.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: Who gave you that advice?
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: Chat called Mark Carter who's uh um no, Mark's who I went to first.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was a PDM in um SJP years and years and years ago.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: And Mark said Solister over in Gloucester, and I rang him up and went, I really want to do the best of my clients.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: You work in a legal firm, who should I know?
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: I I can't get in front of him.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he and he gave me the time and did it.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, lovely chat.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: What's your most used phrase with clients?
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_04: I can I can guess that.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_04: Spend it.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we are we are genuinely known, like it we and we try and encourage this.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: We are known to be the advisors who encourage spending.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um it'll be something along those lines.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the point?
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like enjoy your money, make sure it's in the right place for the right time.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd much rather see clients looking, I'd rather I'd rather be in a meeting and spend 40 minutes talking about the travel and the holidays or the meals out or whatever it is that's important to them that they've done than your 7% on your investments, all the rest of that nonsense.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh face-to-face client meeting or a virtual one?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: Always face to face if I can.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_02: How did you survive during COVID?
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was your client.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't enjoy it.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: We postponed a lot of reviews, so touch base, made sure we're having a conversation, but made sure they're all right.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone had different focus on at that time.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't really.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: I sent this to one of my team last night.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're not saving lives.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it it isn't that important.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no one dies.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, so just make sure they're all right.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we had to shut the office, the team had to stay at home.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I stayed working.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: I just got on the phones, made sure people were right, made sure everyone was okay.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: If we were meant to be doing annual reviews, just said we'll do them.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: But they don't need to be done now.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you've got family at home, you might have people who are ill, you've got all this stuff going on, you probably would have got your own job, you might be working from home on a rickety kitchen table.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you really care if your pension's doing well that you don't need for 20 years in your life?
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we just navigated through as best we could.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: What question do you get asked most by clients?
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh how much do you charge?
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no, probably I honestly don't know.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_04: Uh would it be have I got enough?
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_04: That's a fairly common one, isn't it?
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well I think that but I think that's a generational thing.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the the generation who are nearer retirement, yeah, probably a common question.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: The younger lot don't seem to care.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: What they want to know is like, can they yeah, I don't I don't know.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: I work with a lot of business owners, so I'd probably say their biggest motivator is tax.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do I how do I reduce my tax?
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I don't think it's a common question because as I said earlier on, I think most people come to us with something that's emotionally bothering them.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: So they're that that that then opens up a whole breadth of questions, really.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think clients remember more?
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_02: How you made them feel or what you did for them?
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: Equal par.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd say how we make them feel is really important.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: Our office, like I say, we work really hard on our office to feel almost a bit homely.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: Emotions run high when it comes to finances.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: We wanted to walk in, calm down, be nice, relaxed, have a nice coffee, chill out a little bit, give your head space, which is why I don't like doing meetings at people's houses and I don't like doing it virtually.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: Get out of your environment and come somewhere where you can sit and have a proper conversation.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we've had some amazing messages of clients.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I've had WhatsApp selfies of I'm a bike riding Palmer, first bike ride I've had since I've retired.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've had a client sitting having a glass of champagne in business class saying, You told us we could afford it, so we've done it.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I we fire them into the team chat, it's amazing.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think a balance of both, probably.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_02: And finally, in one sentence, what does being a credible advisor in our industry mean to you?
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh always make sure not only you're doing the right thing, but you know what you're doing for that person.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all good saying you're doing the right thing, but if you haven't made the effort to keep building your knowledge, uh whether that's like about emotions, whether that's about technical knowledge, whatever it may be, it's more important that you actually spend the time to get it right than it is to think you're doing it right.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I, you know, uh quickfire answers, but I see people in our industry thinking they're doing the right thing, so no fault of their own to some extent.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: But if they just read a book and just did a little bit more, they'd be they'd be doing more and they and they'd be working harder at it.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's understanding how important people's finances are is massive, in my opinion.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not sure everyone in our industry gets it yet.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, thank you very much for joining us today, Alex.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_02: I've enjoyed it, it's been real good.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you both.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we will see you all again soon.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: Cheers.