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A Brief History of Underwear · Ridiculous History

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
0:27
Speaker 1: back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
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Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. We hope this message finds
0:33
Speaker 1: you well. We hope this message finds you comfortable, especially
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Speaker 1: in your undergarments. I'm Ben. That's our super producer Max Williams,
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Speaker 1: who I just met today. Right, It's true, and you know,
0:47
Speaker 1: and speaking of being comfortable, we're all comfortable cozied up
0:51
Speaker 1: in a in a studio, in person, in person, three
0:54
Speaker 1: of us. And you know I'm no by the way,
0:56
Speaker 1: you're no old yeah. And and in a way we're
0:58
Speaker 1: accompanying not just with you, fellow Ridiculous Historians, but with
1:02
Speaker 1: our pals Josh and Chuck, because we have poached their studio.
1:07
Speaker 1: It is festooned with fan art from the one and
1:10
Speaker 1: Only Coop Aaron Cooper. I know the guy, know him well.
1:13
Speaker 1: He's a He's a good dude and a master of
1:15
Speaker 1: photo shopery is indeed he is. Indeed we uh, you know.
1:20
Speaker 1: Student listeners may wonder why we said, well, hope, I
1:23
Speaker 1: hope you're comfortable, especially in your undergarden. You're like, whoa, hey,
1:28
Speaker 1: why are you getting all up in my in my
1:29
Speaker 1: little Australia. Yeah, this is it's weird because you know,
1:36
Speaker 1: we we talked about this in the past when we
1:38
Speaker 1: did an episode on the Days, which was a lot
1:41
Speaker 1: of fun. Uh. We we decided to lean into this one.
1:45
Speaker 1: Did we know? We have been hanging out with the
1:48
Speaker 1: people at Fruit of the Loom, lovely people, lovely people,
1:51
Speaker 1: lovely people, and they asked us a little bit about
1:56
Speaker 1: the history of underwear. I think they know about it,
1:59
Speaker 1: but they asked us to to help, you know, fill
2:02
Speaker 1: in some gaps for them. I think when it came
2:05
Speaker 1: to us to put the pieces together, and I don't
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Speaker 1: know if they knew just how exciting these kind of
2:10
Speaker 1: topics are for us. God, I mean the most exciting.
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Speaker 1: It turns out that the history of undergarments goes back
2:16
Speaker 1: way further than I think either of us realize. So
2:19
Speaker 1: far back man. And also it's a the history of
2:22
Speaker 1: undergarments is kind of also a history of fashion, history
2:26
Speaker 1: of sexual liberation, history of sanitation. Max Williams plays a
2:30
Speaker 1: huge role in this. I had no idea Max, how
2:33
Speaker 1: how instrumental you were. And it's different throwing you under
2:37
Speaker 1: the bus in person. It's a lot different getting thrown
2:40
Speaker 1: under the bus in person, Like normally I can just
2:42
Speaker 1: turn my camera off or just like like, oh, I
2:45
Speaker 1: gutta have to do something else, but I'm just sitting
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Speaker 1: right here. You know, I'm not doing anything else. We're
2:49
Speaker 1: gonna make Hey, what if we make some Max facts
2:53
Speaker 1: the show? Why am I getting the Jonathan Strickland treatment
2:57
Speaker 1: right now? More times? And I'll show up right Yeah,
3:01
Speaker 1: please don't. He is actually here. He is, he is
3:03
Speaker 1: in the building. Yes, I'll keep your voice, um, but no,
3:07
Speaker 1: there's not even a proper corner in this tiny studio
3:09
Speaker 1: for you to like get into a fetal position and crying.
3:12
Speaker 1: And you know, the corner is something I think all
3:14
Speaker 1: three of us came to take for granted, the zoom corner,
3:17
Speaker 1: being able to turn off your camera. We are live
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Speaker 1: and direct, so we have to just stay our ps accused.
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Speaker 1: We're all wearing clothing, and that's that's something I think
3:27
Speaker 1: that we take for granted to especially underwear. It's weird
3:29
Speaker 1: you can't really talk to people about underwear. Like if
3:32
Speaker 1: I said, like, Noel has all these great hats, and
3:35
Speaker 1: so I could walk up to Nolan. We know each
3:37
Speaker 1: other very well, and I could be like oh, hey man,
3:39
Speaker 1: that's a kick ass hat, especially, like we know each
3:42
Speaker 1: other well enough that I know a lot of your hats,
3:44
Speaker 1: so I can tell if there's a new one. But
3:46
Speaker 1: if I was like, hey man, what kinda kind of
3:50
Speaker 1: are you wearing? Today? Well, it's funny and have kind
3:52
Speaker 1: of come full circle in an interesting way because initially
3:55
Speaker 1: around seven thousand years ago, when the first evidence of
3:58
Speaker 1: undergarments were uncovered or you know, from that era, it
4:02
Speaker 1: really was outerwear because it was the only where right
4:06
Speaker 1: you found evidence of prehistoric humans wearing were referred to
4:11
Speaker 1: as loin claws, which is like a thin strip of
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Speaker 1: fabric that you'd loop between your your legs and cover
4:17
Speaker 1: your naughty bits with and kind of you know, the
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Speaker 1: cents around your waist. And it was I don't know,
4:22
Speaker 1: what do you think that why they even like, was
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Speaker 1: there a built in modesty already at that point or
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Speaker 1: was it just to protect their bits from you know,
4:29
Speaker 1: being blanched by the sun or what do you think?
4:32
Speaker 1: Pretty fragile? So I think there's definitely like a safety imperative.
4:38
Speaker 1: Then yeah, maybe that becomes modesty, but writer, it's very
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Speaker 1: much outerwear. In the ancient days. They were also leather too.
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Speaker 1: This was not you know, this was not an aesthetic
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Speaker 1: thing or a kink. This is just what they had
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Speaker 1: available at the time. And it's still a primary form
4:55
Speaker 1: of dress for a lot of people, a lot of
4:57
Speaker 1: indigenous people in warmer climb especially. Very true and something
5:01
Speaker 1: I didn't realize. I've heard of the Iceman. Apparently he cometh.
5:05
Speaker 1: His name is Otsi, and he died in a region
5:09
Speaker 1: known as the Tyrolean Alps in Tyrol, which I believe
5:13
Speaker 1: is in in Germany and in that would be modern
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Speaker 1: day Germany, around five thousand years ago. And they uncovered
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Speaker 1: his remains, uh and found him wearing a goat skin
5:24
Speaker 1: breech or loincloth, right, real clothes horse the ice man.
5:28
Speaker 1: But but but he but because it was so cold, right
5:31
Speaker 1: he he was He had overwear as well. It was
5:33
Speaker 1: not the same situation as with the prehistoric humans. He
5:37
Speaker 1: had furry kind of leggings on. And they found that
5:40
Speaker 1: underneath that he was wearing this goat skin loincloth. And
5:44
Speaker 1: didn't he have a cape of some sort like a
5:46
Speaker 1: cloak that I can have a confirm, rightn't I? Okay,
5:48
Speaker 1: all right, well, let's stick to the facts that because
5:50
Speaker 1: his name was the iceman has to have like uh
5:54
Speaker 1: so this like at this point, we can also see
5:58
Speaker 1: examples of underwear in other parts of the world. If
6:02
Speaker 1: we fast forward about a thousand and a half years,
6:06
Speaker 1: then then we just blip just a historical record in
6:09
Speaker 1: the world of podcasting and the historical record, we see
6:13
Speaker 1: that Egypt also had underwear. They had a specific type
6:17
Speaker 1: of linen underwear called a shinty s h E n
6:22
Speaker 1: t I, which was kind of like loincloth, kind of
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Speaker 1: like a brief. Yeah. Yeah, And this is interesting because
6:28
Speaker 1: if you were the pharaoh, you would or you know,
6:31
Speaker 1: a higher class person in that society, you would maybe
6:34
Speaker 1: wear a skirt over your shinty. But if you were
6:37
Speaker 1: just the you know, average day to day worker, you
6:40
Speaker 1: would probably just be wearing the shinty. And there's there's
6:43
Speaker 1: a great article we want to shout out from The Independent,
6:46
Speaker 1: written by Susie Rushton, which goes over so much ancient
6:50
Speaker 1: history of pants and pants as in the British pants,
6:54
Speaker 1: which is underwear. Yes, most I'm sure everybody knows that
6:57
Speaker 1: he watches British comedies, but I always love that pants
7:00
Speaker 1: are underwear and trousers are pants. Trousers are pants. Yeah, yeah,
7:05
Speaker 1: it's an important distinction, right. Fanny also means something different,
7:08
Speaker 1: totally different, totally different. And this is a family show,
7:11
Speaker 1: so we're not going to tell you exactly what it is,
7:13
Speaker 1: but you might not want to google it on your
7:15
Speaker 1: school computer. This is interesting in that we see multiple
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Speaker 1: groups of people, not often without having contact with one another,
7:26
Speaker 1: have been wearing loincloths. It just makes sense. It's the
7:29
Speaker 1: most elegant answer to the question how do I hide
7:34
Speaker 1: and or protect my stuff? And then we see this
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Speaker 1: evolution in detail throughout history. I think the there's there's
7:43
Speaker 1: a little bit of controversy or speculation with the ancient Greeks.
7:47
Speaker 1: There's the idea that loin cloths were around in ancient Greece,
7:51
Speaker 1: but only enslaved people wore them. Interesting, and then the
7:54
Speaker 1: ancient Romans or the least sexy name for an undergarment
7:59
Speaker 1: you're gonna get in this whole show. I almost have
8:01
Speaker 1: a hard time pronouncing it, or at least I had
8:03
Speaker 1: to do a double tick when I first read the word.
8:05
Speaker 1: I believe ben it is subleigaculum. Yes, who came up
8:10
Speaker 1: with sculum? A Roman with a love of tongue twist.
8:13
Speaker 1: I suppose so. And it's sort of an advanced loincloth, right, yeah, yeah,
8:18
Speaker 1: you got a little more up thigh coverage. It's kind
8:20
Speaker 1: of think of them like short shorts or a loincloth
8:25
Speaker 1: with some added bells and whistles, extra wrapping. And this
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Speaker 1: was this was I believe, something that could be worn
8:31
Speaker 1: by anybody, right, it wasn't just for dudes of the
8:36
Speaker 1: day or what have you know. And writing over on
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Speaker 1: History Extra Greg Jenner, who has a really cool website
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Speaker 1: called Horrible Histories, Um, this is in league with the BBC.
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Speaker 1: He also says that this is worn by um gladiators
8:51
Speaker 1: and actors, you know, and it was even worn by
8:54
Speaker 1: There was a version of it for women that he
8:57
Speaker 1: referred to as a boob tube. But he put it
8:59
Speaker 1: in quotes so and he must have gotten it from somewhere.
9:01
Speaker 1: I don't think he made this up, but I love
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Speaker 1: the idea of boom tube. And then you know, adapting
9:06
Speaker 1: that term to refer to the television US you know,
9:09
Speaker 1: not underwear related at all, but would play a large
9:11
Speaker 1: role in spreading the gospel of underwear, you know, and
9:14
Speaker 1: through advertisement much later in the game. Yes, yeah, exactly.
9:18
Speaker 1: That's that's a very good point. Another cycle or full
9:21
Speaker 1: circle of history. And if we go to the century,
9:26
Speaker 1: then we see the creation of loose, just pull on underpants.
9:32
Speaker 1: These were baggy. They went down to your calves, so
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Speaker 1: they're there, you know what they would look like capri
9:39
Speaker 1: pants today, that's what you would think of. Yeah. And
9:41
Speaker 1: they were referred to as drawers, and I've always thought
9:44
Speaker 1: of that as being like, you know, well, yeah, but
9:48
Speaker 1: a drawer, like you know, the thing you open up
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Speaker 1: and close and put things in. But it actually refers
9:53
Speaker 1: to the drawstrings as in drawers. You know, you're drawing
9:58
Speaker 1: the drawstrings to sent them around waste, right, And that
10:01
Speaker 1: was They were called braises, I believe, or braise, that's right,
10:06
Speaker 1: that's that's probably its own plural. It's like sheep, yeah, yeah,
10:09
Speaker 1: a sheep and those sheep a braise and those braids. Also,
10:13
Speaker 1: I just love you know, it's part of our show
10:16
Speaker 1: being based in the southeast of the United States, but
10:19
Speaker 1: we love a good Southern accent. And I have had
10:22
Speaker 1: people in my family who do refer to underwear as draws.
10:27
Speaker 1: Draw it out, don't they. And then you sort of
10:29
Speaker 1: had a style on braise called shows, uh, that the
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Speaker 1: upper class would wear, and they were a little more
10:37
Speaker 1: like leg warmers, you know, they would just cover the
10:41
Speaker 1: thigh up to the thigh. Yeah yeah, ice man style, right,
10:45
Speaker 1: And then we know that we know that for many
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Speaker 1: people in northern climbs, these weren't just worn to protect
10:54
Speaker 1: yourself from like hazards of your environment. They were also
10:58
Speaker 1: worn to keep you warm. And let's not forget there
11:01
Speaker 1: were also like armored versions of these things that maybe
11:03
Speaker 1: we're made of like chain mail or something, for example,
11:06
Speaker 1: and we're gonna bounce around ever so slightly here and there.
11:09
Speaker 1: Mainly it's could be sort of a linear history of underwear,
11:11
Speaker 1: but we might double that couple of times. Vikings and
11:15
Speaker 1: Celtics they also wore those brays, but they wore long socks,
11:20
Speaker 1: and that was because it was cold, like you said, Ben,
11:21
Speaker 1: so they wore those to keep them warm. Romans, however,
11:24
Speaker 1: did not wear socks. That's largely because of the warm temperature.
11:28
Speaker 1: We know that they wore sandals with no socks, because
11:31
Speaker 1: sandals with socks obviously a total fashion faux pap. Even
11:34
Speaker 1: though it's sort of coming back now, sandals with socks
11:36
Speaker 1: like sort of becoming cool again, sort of like crocs,
11:39
Speaker 1: like cast firmly on board. It's debatable as to whether
11:42
Speaker 1: crocs are cool or not, but they are definitely making
11:44
Speaker 1: a big comeback. Is not on board with It's not
11:47
Speaker 1: on board a terrible look. I don't sand socks or
11:50
Speaker 1: crocs both like crocs with socks absolutely not in a box.
11:56
Speaker 1: Are you? Are you a shoe supremacist. No, I'm not
11:58
Speaker 1: a shoe supremacist. But it's just like, this is clearly
12:02
Speaker 1: like something that's horribly wrong. Unless you're working on a
12:06
Speaker 1: line in a kitchen, should not wear crocs period. Well
12:09
Speaker 1: there there there's all kinds of innovations and crocs like
12:12
Speaker 1: you have little the dazzl e things that you stick
12:14
Speaker 1: in the holes in them. You've got kind of goth
12:16
Speaker 1: crocs which are black and have little spikes that come
12:19
Speaker 1: up out of the holes. It's a whole thing. The
12:20
Speaker 1: kids are crazy about him. Um, so it became uncool
12:23
Speaker 1: enough to be cool a good It's like norm core exactly.
12:26
Speaker 1: It's it's that level of irony where eventually it just
12:29
Speaker 1: becomes the thing, Like you do something ironically long enough,
12:32
Speaker 1: you're really just like it. Steely Dan, I mean Steely
12:37
Speaker 1: Dan used to be dad rock and now like all
12:38
Speaker 1: the new bands sound like Steely Dan. But the Romans
12:41
Speaker 1: looked down upon people who wore socks. In fact, they
12:43
Speaker 1: considered the Vikings and the Celtics to be barbarians, and
12:47
Speaker 1: they really thought that sock wearing was absolutely ghost More so,
12:51
Speaker 1: even it was like, oh my god, these animals with
12:53
Speaker 1: their socks, they had some they had some weird social
12:56
Speaker 1: mories or judgments that that definitely didn't age well. But fun,
13:01
Speaker 1: fun etymo logical note about barbarism and being barbaric. Where
13:06
Speaker 1: that comes from is also itself kind of a petty
13:09
Speaker 1: insult condescension. It just meant people who like when they
13:13
Speaker 1: when Roman forces couldn't understand a native language, they called
13:18
Speaker 1: people barbarians because in their mind it was on amatopeia
13:22
Speaker 1: because everything people said that they didn't understand sounded like
13:26
Speaker 1: barbararar yeah, berberism exactly. So we're at so we're at
13:33
Speaker 1: the Middle Ages, humanities, magic of magic, time travel, and
13:39
Speaker 1: during this time there's something that a lot of people
13:42
Speaker 1: might be surprised to learn. Guys were still wearing linen
13:45
Speaker 1: shorts that were still called brays, but women weren't actually
13:51
Speaker 1: wearing what we would consider underwear, right, Yeah, that's right.
13:55
Speaker 1: It was. Actually I'm speaking to the general zeitgeist of time,
14:00
Speaker 1: which was very patriarchal and uh, misogynistic, and women who
14:05
Speaker 1: wore underwear we're seen as being somewhat low or base,
14:10
Speaker 1: not based like the kids would say, which means super cool,
14:14
Speaker 1: but um, you know, potentially promiscuous. It certainly wasn't seen
14:19
Speaker 1: as a sign of virtue, and virtue was king back then. Yeah, yeah,
14:23
Speaker 1: very uh patriarchal, they did not they Yeah, they were jerks.
14:30
Speaker 1: They were beading jerks about it. But the the only
14:33
Speaker 1: common underwear for women before the nineteenth century at this
14:39
Speaker 1: point was something called shift, or a in France would
14:43
Speaker 1: be what a cami? You know what makes me think
14:47
Speaker 1: I've been We both I think are big fans of
14:49
Speaker 1: the David Egger's film The Witch. Yeah, this mild spoiler,
14:54
Speaker 1: I guess, but I'm not gonna ge. I'm not gonna
14:56
Speaker 1: give the complete context. I'm just gonna read the line.
14:58
Speaker 1: It's remove the shift. Yeah, oh yeah, what's that like
15:04
Speaker 1: the taste of butter, and it's the taste of butter.
15:07
Speaker 1: It's not butter. I remember we had off air when
15:11
Speaker 1: that film came out, we we all went and hung out.
15:15
Speaker 1: A good friend of the show, Lare and vogel Baum
15:17
Speaker 1: was there and we talked for like an hour and
15:20
Speaker 1: a half analyzing The Witch in the theater and I
15:25
Speaker 1: we we both seen it. We're seeing it for the
15:27
Speaker 1: first time, and we were just like, do you want
15:30
Speaker 1: to live deliciously? Ben? What's that? I think we all do.
15:34
Speaker 1: It's interesting too, because there's an argument about extremism and
15:38
Speaker 1: radicalization in The Witch. Oh well, you know what we're
15:41
Speaker 1: doing our conversation, we are going to try to take
15:47
Speaker 1: Max out. That is a true story. So there were
15:50
Speaker 1: there is another thing that occurs in this space that
15:53
Speaker 1: we have to talk about, and that is also the
15:55
Speaker 1: evolution of you know, I love how you pointed out
15:58
Speaker 1: how dangerously endured a lot of this was, but there
16:01
Speaker 1: were other things evolving as well. Because even though we're
16:04
Speaker 1: saying people identifying as as female weren't wearing what we
16:08
Speaker 1: would recognize as modern underwear today, they were wearing things
16:13
Speaker 1: like petticoats. Of course it's and then this kind of
16:16
Speaker 1: leads us to eventually, we'll we'll get to it a
16:20
Speaker 1: little bit, but it leads us to launching. It does eventually,
16:29
Speaker 1: but the version that we're talking about was much more
16:32
Speaker 1: of a imposed kind of dress, or a imposed idealization,
16:38
Speaker 1: or like the way women should appear. And these petticoats,
16:41
Speaker 1: of course, it's especially they were reinforced by things like
16:44
Speaker 1: whalebone or reads or willow rods to stiffen them, and
16:48
Speaker 1: they wanted to create this almost conical shape like we
16:51
Speaker 1: talked about the Barbie doll frame without the bust. That's
16:55
Speaker 1: sort of what it was like the bottom of the
16:57
Speaker 1: hour exactly, because the bust was flattened and if you
17:00
Speaker 1: see these course it's I mean, there is no plunging
17:04
Speaker 1: neckline at this point. It was very modest and very
17:07
Speaker 1: unpleasant to where I can only imagine it's tough. I mean,
17:11
Speaker 1: it's it's It was around for a while and it
17:13
Speaker 1: was high fashion, right. It was introduced by Catherine Dave
17:16
Speaker 1: Medici into France and the fifteen hundreds. It was originally
17:20
Speaker 1: from Italy, but I think it really took off in
17:23
Speaker 1: the European imagination when Queen Elizabeth right, Queen Elizabeth the
17:28
Speaker 1: First started popularizing this idea of the big, big petticoat
17:34
Speaker 1: and the high and tight course exactly the petticoat, and
17:38
Speaker 1: they were supported with these hoops that were kind of
17:41
Speaker 1: concentric circles made of again that stiffening material. I think
17:45
Speaker 1: even there were versions of it later when steele became
17:47
Speaker 1: more accessible. This is down the line, but then they
17:49
Speaker 1: I think they became replaced with steel and they were
17:51
Speaker 1: essentially cages that were covered in uh in fabric. And
17:55
Speaker 1: the more opulent you were, the larger your skirt would be. Yeah,
18:00
Speaker 1: you know, the bigger you were, the bigger you're well,
18:03
Speaker 1: we said, we wouldn't say, but at this point, the
18:05
Speaker 1: bigger like your belt was exactly exactly the bigger a
18:08
Speaker 1: deal you were, Yes, exactly. So we're talking about a shift.
18:13
Speaker 1: We're if you're trying to picture it in your head,
18:16
Speaker 1: you're essentially picturing something that looks like a nightgowns. I
18:21
Speaker 1: don't know, do I don't think a lot of people
18:23
Speaker 1: wear nightgowns. It's certainly not the Ebenezer Scrooge style. That's
18:29
Speaker 1: the nightcap that people speak of so fondly. And I
18:31
Speaker 1: don't understand how late night drink became a nightcap. I got.
18:35
Speaker 1: I mean, that's you know, it's the thing you've dawned
18:37
Speaker 1: before bed I guess that's why. But you're right then,
18:40
Speaker 1: and the shift or chamis really was kind of a nightgown.
18:43
Speaker 1: Men would even wear them shortened versions. They would tuck
18:46
Speaker 1: them under their Genitaliam. Okay, yeah, peoplettle extra security there
18:52
Speaker 1: and they always tucked in. Tucking in was huge back then. Um.
18:55
Speaker 1: But this was something that like the upper class, for example,
18:58
Speaker 1: would have shifts made of fine linens and silks and
19:02
Speaker 1: things like maybe not silks yet, I don't know. I
19:03
Speaker 1: don't know if I forget when the trade lad to
19:05
Speaker 1: the availability that would have been I'm not quite sure,
19:08
Speaker 1: but people got into silk underwear, that's true a million percent.
19:11
Speaker 1: But then the lower class or peasants would have had
19:14
Speaker 1: shifts made of like wool, you know, or more rough,
19:17
Speaker 1: itchy kind of material. But one thing that both classes
19:20
Speaker 1: had in common where these garments were worn repeatedly and
19:24
Speaker 1: they could be washed, and one very popular for watching
19:28
Speaker 1: these was using stale urine. Why apparently made things brighter,
19:35
Speaker 1: the would make a yellower. Yeah, well, you know, it
19:39
Speaker 1: depends on the source of the urine, honestly, and and
19:43
Speaker 1: also at this time we should mention the people in
19:47
Speaker 1: both the world of medicine and popular culture had a
19:50
Speaker 1: little bit of a different idea of urine than we do.
19:52
Speaker 1: To this true, right, A lot of medicine was here,
19:55
Speaker 1: p into this vial or this uh feed into this container,
19:59
Speaker 1: and I will hold it up to the cardinalite of
20:02
Speaker 1: the sun to determine whether you are melancholic, to engage
20:06
Speaker 1: the levels of your humors exactly. And so they did
20:10
Speaker 1: those side doe because again, these are these are people
20:13
Speaker 1: just like us listening or doing this show today. They
20:17
Speaker 1: weren't dumb. They were working with what they had, and
20:20
Speaker 1: they didn't want to smell like peace. So they would
20:22
Speaker 1: hang these uh they would hang these undergarments outside and
20:26
Speaker 1: try to air drive them long enough that they didn't
20:29
Speaker 1: smell like pea, which probably also means they wore them
20:31
Speaker 1: for quite a long time before they would wash them,
20:35
Speaker 1: because especially if you were a peasant, you wouldn't have
20:37
Speaker 1: that many of these no. No, And it wasn't until
20:40
Speaker 1: the Middle Ages that it even became a thing and
20:42
Speaker 1: was somewhat of a luxury for a while, because before that, you,
20:46
Speaker 1: if you were the average person in this area, you
20:49
Speaker 1: would have either slept naked or you would just sleep
20:52
Speaker 1: in the clothes you had already been wearing. It's not
20:55
Speaker 1: like you had fifty pairs of trousers. You had you know,
20:59
Speaker 1: you had the good pair and then you had the
21:00
Speaker 1: other pair maybe, and so you would just leave those
21:04
Speaker 1: on nightgowns. Because they were made of these thin fabrics.
21:08
Speaker 1: Originally you had to be pretty well off to wear them.
21:12
Speaker 1: And then you know, as we see this catch on
21:15
Speaker 1: with the quote unquote lower classes, that's where we see
21:17
Speaker 1: the rough wool you're talking about. Yeah, and uh, then
21:22
Speaker 1: I don't know, let's go back to Chauce's because you've
21:25
Speaker 1: mentioned those. In Europe goes into the Renaissance period and
21:28
Speaker 1: that's when things start getting a little racier. These were
21:31
Speaker 1: the roughly capri pants initially, or like you know, the
21:33
Speaker 1: kind of loose fitting they became. I believe silk hose, right.
21:39
Speaker 1: I think it was Gosh, who was a queen Elizabeth
21:43
Speaker 1: the first as well, made a big stand on wearing
21:47
Speaker 1: this silken hose and really popularized it. So while these, uh,
21:53
Speaker 1: while these tight hose approaches are becoming more in vogue,
21:56
Speaker 1: brais also start to get shorter. And then there's this
21:59
Speaker 1: one full innovation that I think we should all appreciate
22:02
Speaker 1: more the predecessor of the fly. That's right. If you
22:06
Speaker 1: are wearing uh if if you're wearing pants, you'll often
22:11
Speaker 1: find that there is an opening, especially dudes pants, you'll
22:14
Speaker 1: find that there's an opening, often with the zippers, sometimes
22:17
Speaker 1: with a button that allows you to use the restroom
22:22
Speaker 1: without entirely dropping troal. This flap could be buttoned up
22:28
Speaker 1: because zippers didn't exist yet, or you could tie it
22:31
Speaker 1: close with like draw strings. And this was the first
22:34
Speaker 1: ever thing that we called a cod piece. It is
22:38
Speaker 1: not named after fish uh fun only slightly an s
22:42
Speaker 1: f W. Fact. Cod was a Middle English term for scrotum. Right,
22:48
Speaker 1: it's scrowed um. This is my scrotum piece. Yeah, and
22:52
Speaker 1: it's oh my god. By by the way, I said,
22:54
Speaker 1: not a dumb thing. I just wasn't sure, and I said,
22:56
Speaker 1: as much. Silk was around by the time of the
22:59
Speaker 1: second Crew saved um, so they would have had silk,
23:02
Speaker 1: but again it would have been very rare and coming
23:04
Speaker 1: from Afar feel like the king. Absolutely, But then it
23:08
Speaker 1: became a little more available around the time that we're
23:10
Speaker 1: talking about these uh, these hose, these leggings kind of
23:13
Speaker 1: coming into fashion. But you're right, then the cod piece.
23:15
Speaker 1: Uh uh, you want to talk about syphilis? Was the time? Uh,
23:19
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's always time to have frank discussions
23:23
Speaker 1: with our friends about important issues, and syphilis is one.
23:27
Speaker 1: This is It was rampant, Yes, it was. It was,
23:31
Speaker 1: as our friend Frank would say, wide rife, wide rife, indeed,
23:34
Speaker 1: and and it was even because you couldn't you couldn't
23:37
Speaker 1: get rid of it, right, So it was even rampant
23:39
Speaker 1: among the upper class. And King Henry the eighth, for example,
23:44
Speaker 1: war cod piece. Uh. And part of the point of
23:47
Speaker 1: the cod piece was the point literally too uh em
23:51
Speaker 1: big in in big in your your area, like a
23:54
Speaker 1: push up only absurd. I alas, I always think of
23:58
Speaker 1: a clockwork orange. You know. They obviously wore for effect,
24:00
Speaker 1: and it's sort of like a weird retro kind of
24:03
Speaker 1: European callback, I guess, but it's very odd. But yeah,
24:06
Speaker 1: Henry the eighth um wore quite a large one, and
24:10
Speaker 1: apparently it was so large because he needed extra room
24:13
Speaker 1: in there to stuff it with ointment soaked rags like poultices, huh,
24:17
Speaker 1: so that it would reduce the pain and the swelling
24:20
Speaker 1: he was experiencing was associated with syphilis. Yeah, and there
24:24
Speaker 1: there were other people because the cod piece wasn't covered
24:27
Speaker 1: by outer layers, right, so there are other people who
24:29
Speaker 1: are stuffing it. Whether that's because they've contracted syphilis, or
24:33
Speaker 1: whether that's because they won't make more of a visual impression.
24:37
Speaker 1: That probably goes case by case, but that was happening.
24:40
Speaker 1: And uh, there's some paintings you can look at it
24:42
Speaker 1: from this era. They're like shaped like a like a
24:45
Speaker 1: like a like a dog. Yeah, like like outwardly it's
24:49
Speaker 1: it's like an outward yeah. That thing. Um, it's weird.
24:54
Speaker 1: Thank god that that fell out of fashion. So strange.
24:56
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we certainly have instances of like
24:58
Speaker 1: rock stars stuffing pants with socks and and like, you know,
25:01
Speaker 1: I think there was in spinal Tap where I believe
25:04
Speaker 1: David st. Hubbins is going through security and it keeps
25:07
Speaker 1: no I know it is. It's it's Derek Small the
25:09
Speaker 1: basis he's going through security and he keeps setting off
25:12
Speaker 1: the metal detector and he pulls out a cucumber wrapped
25:16
Speaker 1: in tinfoil out of his pants and shamefully turns it
25:19
Speaker 1: over to the airport security. And other other dudes and
25:23
Speaker 1: other parts of the world had the similar idea, like
25:26
Speaker 1: there's a thing called the Koteka, which is yeah, it's
25:29
Speaker 1: uh their communities in New Guinea that where these Because
25:34
Speaker 1: we're in person, it looks like it's like a gord
25:37
Speaker 1: I would say, it's definitely made of a gourd and
25:39
Speaker 1: it's uh something that with a with a waist band
25:42
Speaker 1: that you would attach to your your your waist and
25:45
Speaker 1: you know it's a giant, thick picture, a giant cord
25:47
Speaker 1: that's painted you know, ornately that you're wearing on the
25:50
Speaker 1: outside of your clothes in your area. Yeah. Yeah, it
25:54
Speaker 1: is made from a dried out gourd. But we're we're
25:57
Speaker 1: saying the cod piece idea is a is a revelation
26:01
Speaker 1: that multiple men have thought of parallel thinking, Man, how
26:05
Speaker 1: do I get people to notice my junk more notice junk? Yeah,
26:11
Speaker 1: so this thank goodness that this didn't you know, carry on, right,
26:15
Speaker 1: But we do have to talk about something else, especially
26:19
Speaker 1: in not in the all of the world, but especially
26:21
Speaker 1: in the late Middle Ages and in London. Things were filthy.
26:26
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it was gross. There's a whole episode
26:29
Speaker 1: of ridiculous history on the Great Stink of London call
26:33
Speaker 1: and that Great Stink in question was the Thames, Uh,
26:36
Speaker 1: and just the streets because they didn't have indoor plumbing.
26:39
Speaker 1: It was just like you know, privs, these like open
26:42
Speaker 1: pots and they would just get dumped out into the street,
26:45
Speaker 1: you know, like a spittoon. But it was instead of
26:47
Speaker 1: you know, being full of gross like tobacco spit, it's
26:50
Speaker 1: full of like poop and urine and it's just literally
26:53
Speaker 1: the streets are flowing with excrement and the Thames is
26:56
Speaker 1: absolutely just you know, festering with rut toxic runoff from
27:02
Speaker 1: leather man because you know, all the chemicals used to
27:04
Speaker 1: cure leather um and animal waste and animal carcasses and
27:09
Speaker 1: parts and guts coming out of butcher shops. I mean,
27:12
Speaker 1: it was bad and it smelled. And to make it worse,
27:16
Speaker 1: people didn't wash. It wasn't as easy to wash, you know,
27:21
Speaker 1: like unless you live next to clean water source or
27:25
Speaker 1: unless you are I don't know. It just wasn't normalized.
27:28
Speaker 1: But at the same time, people like when when we
27:31
Speaker 1: say the streets were filthy, that you know, as Asneal said,
27:34
Speaker 1: there's no sewage. There's the sewer is the middle of
27:37
Speaker 1: the street. And the buildings are also often built such
27:41
Speaker 1: that the second floor protrudes over the first floor, so
27:45
Speaker 1: it also restricts airflow. And this leads to Uh, the
27:50
Speaker 1: reason this is such a perfect storm is because at
27:53
Speaker 1: the time people believe that you could the current medical
27:57
Speaker 1: theory was that you could get disease through something called miasma,
28:02
Speaker 1: that's smelling something that it was going into you. Not
28:05
Speaker 1: to mention, you know, accurately, I would argue they believed
28:09
Speaker 1: you could get these diseases through your skin and also
28:13
Speaker 1: through bodily orifices, openings, you know, natural openings in the body. Um.
28:17
Speaker 1: Depending on what disease we're talking about, what kind of contact,
28:20
Speaker 1: that can be true and it can be not true. Right. Um.
28:23
Speaker 1: But they washed infrequently, and so the closest thing they
28:27
Speaker 1: had infrequently means frequently does they didn't watch that much
28:31
Speaker 1: and uh, they got around this, or at least the
28:34
Speaker 1: closest thing they had to personal hygiene was washing their garments,
28:38
Speaker 1: their under undergarments as much as possible. Um. But even that,
28:41
Speaker 1: again because of the availability of clean water. That's why
28:44
Speaker 1: they were using urine. By the way, part partially, um,
28:47
Speaker 1: it was it was hard to do that as well,
28:49
Speaker 1: especially for the underclass. I always think of the scene
28:51
Speaker 1: in Monty Python the Holy Grail where somebody says something
28:54
Speaker 1: the effect of, oh, he must be a king because
28:56
Speaker 1: he's not covered in Yeah, right, that's that's pretty good line.
29:01
Speaker 1: And look, we're we're not saying people were um purposefully,
29:06
Speaker 1: you know, incredibly dirty or filthy. We're saying it was
29:09
Speaker 1: harder to stay clean. And now we enter in a
29:13
Speaker 1: time where this is weird. Things become a little bit
29:18
Speaker 1: more modest. People are putting away their pretend phalluses, and
29:23
Speaker 1: men in Europe are starting to wear these long cotton
29:27
Speaker 1: linen or if your fancy silk draws, I'm gonna say
29:31
Speaker 1: draws for the rest of the episode. And in the
29:32
Speaker 1: most common the thing that was sort of like the
29:35
Speaker 1: Honda Civic of underwear at this time was a knee
29:37
Speaker 1: length garment with a button flap at the front. This
29:41
Speaker 1: was the ancestor of something that was called, I don't
29:45
Speaker 1: know why I love this name, the union suit or
29:48
Speaker 1: a union suit. That's the thing you picture like an
29:51
Speaker 1: old prospector wearing with the butt flap, right, And for
29:53
Speaker 1: some reason it's read usually and yeah, and maybe they
29:58
Speaker 1: watched it in the clown pants. And this later evolved
30:03
Speaker 1: into what we recognize as Long John's. Have you guys
30:07
Speaker 1: ever had a pair of Long John's or do you
30:10
Speaker 1: ever wear thermal under Let's trying to call him thermal underwear. Now, No,
30:12
Speaker 1: I haven't really lived in cold enough area to really
30:15
Speaker 1: warrant it, but I know they can be comfy. Max, Yes, yes,
30:18
Speaker 1: so Alex and I are actually from Detroit originally, so yeah,
30:22
Speaker 1: from birth we had Long John's and then we moved
30:24
Speaker 1: on here and we're like, why do we still happy?
30:26
Speaker 1: It is like nine degrees every day more realistically like
30:29
Speaker 1: ninety five degrees and horribly human gets cold here though
30:32
Speaker 1: in the winter, and certainly, if let's say you don't
30:36
Speaker 1: have central heat, for example, Long John's air thermal underwear
30:39
Speaker 1: would certainly be a you know, pretty affordable fix. I
30:42
Speaker 1: wear him every winter. I hope to tell you guys,
30:45
Speaker 1: because it's a weird thing to say in conversation. How
30:47
Speaker 1: would come up? You know, how needed to bring it
30:49
Speaker 1: up out of nowhere? Well, you know, for hanging out.
30:52
Speaker 1: We're sitting at Patty over our favorite wings spot or something,
30:55
Speaker 1: and someone's has come up once maybe know you guys,
30:58
Speaker 1: but someone's like, oh, it's cool, we should go in
31:00
Speaker 1: and it was like, I'm fine and picked the weirdest,
31:03
Speaker 1: dumbest flex I did that winter. I was like, because
31:05
Speaker 1: I always wear thermal underwear when it's cold, It's like,
31:10
Speaker 1: would you like to see it? I pulled up my
31:12
Speaker 1: shirt while everyone was saying no, Can I say that?
31:15
Speaker 1: You made a really good point that things took a
31:18
Speaker 1: turn towards the more modest, and I think that's largely
31:20
Speaker 1: for men. For women, that did start to see the
31:23
Speaker 1: push up of the of the plunging neckline and also
31:27
Speaker 1: more kind of ancient Greek and art inspired drapings and like,
31:33
Speaker 1: you know, if you look at the way art evolved,
31:34
Speaker 1: I believe it was Neo Classicism where it showed a
31:37
Speaker 1: lot more of these garments with you know, where you
31:40
Speaker 1: could literally see nipples, you know, it was it was
31:43
Speaker 1: very sheer and things like that. So that was something
31:45
Speaker 1: that we would start to see. But with men they
31:48
Speaker 1: did start to cover up more. Also, the shifts we
31:50
Speaker 1: talked about, I became a weird flex in and of itself,
31:53
Speaker 1: Like in the Victorian Age, you think of those like
31:55
Speaker 1: crazy like Delafosaurus from Jurassic Park, like neck fringes or whatever,
32:01
Speaker 1: the roughs they called them. That was just the part
32:03
Speaker 1: of the shift that you could see, Yes, yes, because
32:06
Speaker 1: it would and then you know, they would get more
32:08
Speaker 1: and more elaborate, because these richies just wanted to like
32:10
Speaker 1: one up each other and flex harder with these bizarro
32:13
Speaker 1: you know, like halo looking things exactly. And at the
32:17
Speaker 1: same time that these different things are occurring and that
32:20
Speaker 1: we're seeing a little bit of divergence, we're also seeing
32:25
Speaker 1: the end of an era. Because up to about the
32:29
Speaker 1: nineteenth century in Europe and North America, underwear was thought
32:33
Speaker 1: to have two main functions for the average person. First,
32:37
Speaker 1: it wasn't really meant to protect you as much as
32:42
Speaker 1: it was meant to protect your outer clothes from you
32:45
Speaker 1: because people didn't bathe and they didn't want to get
32:47
Speaker 1: their nice outside clothes dirties. So they're put on their there,
32:51
Speaker 1: you know, like this airlock for filth and because yeah,
32:56
Speaker 1: and and and then you know, bathing was very much luxury,
33:00
Speaker 1: and so in these colder climbs, especially like you know,
33:03
Speaker 1: modern day Detroit, this added an important extra layer of insulation. Noll,
33:09
Speaker 1: is it time to shout out before we go to
33:11
Speaker 1: the next phase? Is it time we should probably mention
33:14
Speaker 1: fruit of the loom uh started around this time, right
33:16
Speaker 1: nineteenth century. Yeah, it was around midway through the nineteenth century.
33:20
Speaker 1: In eighteen fifty one, the Fruit of the Loom Company
33:22
Speaker 1: was founded, but they didn't trademark their brand. Their ubiquitous
33:26
Speaker 1: brands and that I always think of that, uh, the
33:29
Speaker 1: image associated with fruit dressed up like the fruit. I
33:33
Speaker 1: always wanted one of those costumes, you know what I mean.
33:36
Speaker 1: I like mascots. I like stuff with mascots, and I
33:39
Speaker 1: also think it's interesting too. Not to get too far ahead,
33:41
Speaker 1: this is way far ahead, but we talked about underwear
33:43
Speaker 1: as being like something you hide. But I always thought
33:47
Speaker 1: it was awesome when you were kids. You know, you
33:49
Speaker 1: get those fruit the looms that have like cartoon characters
33:51
Speaker 1: and stuff printed on. Who is that for? I guess
33:54
Speaker 1: it's just for us. You know, you're not They don't
33:55
Speaker 1: really expect you to be parading around in your and
33:58
Speaker 1: your skivvies. But at the same time, I'm certainly a
34:00
Speaker 1: good selling point for for us kids. Um, but you're right.
34:03
Speaker 1: In eighteen fifty six they did trademark that that brand,
34:06
Speaker 1: and now zoom zips au and the magic of podcasting
34:10
Speaker 1: and time travel through history, we are in the industrial era. Yes,
34:14
Speaker 1: the Industrial era, the Industrial Revolution, and your took us
34:25
Speaker 1: odds are the undergarments that you're rocking today as you
34:28
Speaker 1: listen to this, if you are indeed wearing undergarments, came
34:31
Speaker 1: do you? Courtesy the Industrial Revolution? After after this period, right,
34:36
Speaker 1: we see this massive expansion of commercial and manufacturing scale,
34:41
Speaker 1: and we see the ability to make instead of laboriously
34:46
Speaker 1: doing things in a very slow manner, now we can
34:49
Speaker 1: make hundreds, thousands, millions of undergarments. And cotton especially helped
34:55
Speaker 1: democratize these fabrics. So the that's because of the cotton
34:58
Speaker 1: gin that allows you to process that cotton, uh much
35:01
Speaker 1: more efficiently. And then you had things like the spinning Jenny,
35:04
Speaker 1: which was like you know, basically an industrial loom, if
35:07
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, Yeah, exactly. Because they had these technological breakthroughs,
35:13
Speaker 1: it became less expensive to create quality clothing. Right. And
35:19
Speaker 1: then I don't know if you were expecting this to
35:22
Speaker 1: show up in the show, folks, but then the invention
35:26
Speaker 1: of the bicycle inspires a revolution and underwear which is
35:30
Speaker 1: the jockstrap. It's called a jock strap because they called
35:35
Speaker 1: people who are on bicycles jockeys. Yeah, were they, like,
35:39
Speaker 1: I mean, they had to have been doing this for
35:41
Speaker 1: you know, business purposes, right, Were they like delivering things
35:44
Speaker 1: on bicycles or was it just like people writing as
35:47
Speaker 1: a mode of transportation. So there was enough demand for
35:50
Speaker 1: it that they were getting their junk rattled. You know,
35:52
Speaker 1: I have a bike and I don't have a jock strap,
35:55
Speaker 1: don't require one, but I have a memory, you know,
35:58
Speaker 1: gel kind of seat topper, not to protect my little asse. Yeah,
36:02
Speaker 1: they didn't. They didn't have that, so you're you're right.
36:05
Speaker 1: It must have been a problem in the you know,
36:08
Speaker 1: the jockstrap is still around today because it works. And
36:11
Speaker 1: this is interesting because with the industrial era also comes
36:15
Speaker 1: the rise of capitalism, and one aspect of capitalism is
36:20
Speaker 1: to generate as many markets as possible. Right, Why sell
36:25
Speaker 1: one kind of thing when you could sell the same
36:28
Speaker 1: thing four ways to four different groups. And that's why
36:31
Speaker 1: I would argue that's why we see this specialization in
36:35
Speaker 1: underwear at least as a selling point. Absolutely, the differentiation
36:39
Speaker 1: between underwear for men underwear for women, um which again
36:42
Speaker 1: created these two markets. So what do you do when
36:44
Speaker 1: you specialize? You start to get real specific and you
36:47
Speaker 1: start to sell people the idea of beauty or the
36:50
Speaker 1: idea of fashion. Right. Um, so that's when you start
36:54
Speaker 1: seeing things like lingerie. And that represented a really really
36:58
Speaker 1: great article by the way, on Love to Know Fashion
37:01
Speaker 1: dash History dot Love to Know dot Com about the
37:04
Speaker 1: history of lingerie by Caroline Cox, and she points out
37:08
Speaker 1: very astutely that the popularizing of lingerie kind of happened
37:14
Speaker 1: hand in hand with women becoming freed from some of
37:18
Speaker 1: those constraints that we talked about in terms of morality,
37:22
Speaker 1: notions of sexuality. They should, you know, kind of be
37:25
Speaker 1: more restrained, right, And this kind of became part of
37:30
Speaker 1: what led to like the sexual liberation and the idea
37:33
Speaker 1: of femininity and identity and sexual identity, or in parallel
37:38
Speaker 1: with the kind of emerging of sexual identity among women
37:42
Speaker 1: and femininity and the idea of you know, kind of
37:45
Speaker 1: tossing off some of those Victorian morals that were sort
37:48
Speaker 1: of kind of foisted upon them. But it was early
37:51
Speaker 1: nine hundreds and there was still kind of we weren't
37:55
Speaker 1: fully into the sexual revolution yet, but this was definitely
37:58
Speaker 1: laying the groundwork. And lingerie was considered something that was
38:02
Speaker 1: only for married couples if you wore it and you
38:06
Speaker 1: were not a married woman, then that would be considered
38:09
Speaker 1: low or promiscuous, or in some way lacking in in
38:13
Speaker 1: virtue and decorum. This really great quote from a fashion
38:18
Speaker 1: journalist from nineteen o two. Um that again is is
38:21
Speaker 1: cited in this fashion history dot Love to Know dot
38:23
Speaker 1: com article and it goes like this lovely lingerie does
38:27
Speaker 1: not belong only to the fast. Dainty undergarments are not
38:30
Speaker 1: necessarily a sign of depravity. The most virtuous of us
38:34
Speaker 1: are now allowed to possess pretty undergarments without being looked
38:38
Speaker 1: upon as suspicious characters. Here here caveats, but handing in
38:42
Speaker 1: the right direction. Yeah, agreed. And you know this is
38:45
Speaker 1: like this idea of to the morality jail with you
38:48
Speaker 1: based on your dress is it's it's dumb. It's an
38:53
Speaker 1: attempt to control people. And unfortunately it's not the only
38:56
Speaker 1: example of its kind. We know it occurs in other
39:00
Speaker 1: other countries, other cultures. Throughout history, people have been attempting
39:03
Speaker 1: to control each other through their dress. But this is
39:06
Speaker 1: why we have to examine all of these things at once.
39:08
Speaker 1: If we go, if we check in to see what's
39:10
Speaker 1: going on with pants and uh pants in the U
39:14
Speaker 1: S sense, with trousers. Then we see that, oh, one
39:17
Speaker 1: of my favorite fun facts. Long John's named after a
39:20
Speaker 1: real guy. His name is John L. Sullivan. He's a
39:24
Speaker 1: boxer in the eighteen hundreds and he one of his
39:27
Speaker 1: flexes was he would show up in the ring in
39:30
Speaker 1: his long John's to box people. And then we also
39:33
Speaker 1: know the origin of the word pants. Using pants like
39:37
Speaker 1: this might be hilarious for some of our British listeners,
39:40
Speaker 1: but it comes from an Italian comedy called Pantalone. The
39:44
Speaker 1: character in this play where's these garments that come down
39:49
Speaker 1: to his ankles at a time when most folks were
39:51
Speaker 1: rocking stuff that came down to their knees. And then
39:54
Speaker 1: in the eighteenth century in England these were called pantaloons.
39:58
Speaker 1: By the nineteenth century we started shortening that word pants,
40:02
Speaker 1: and then in Britain, at least going to local histories
40:06
Speaker 1: dot Org, pants came to mean just any kind of
40:10
Speaker 1: long draws. I'm still gonna stick with draws that covered
40:14
Speaker 1: your the entirety of your leg and the things that
40:18
Speaker 1: you wore over those long draws, those long John's would
40:21
Speaker 1: become known as trousers. So there it is also if
40:25
Speaker 1: you go back to magic of time travel. If you
40:28
Speaker 1: go to the nineteen twenties, you'll see pants as a
40:31
Speaker 1: pants design. Pants Aesthetics again got an idea from boxing.
40:35
Speaker 1: Of all places, a guy named Jacob Golam developed a
40:39
Speaker 1: featherweight version of fighting shorts, and then in the nineties,
40:45
Speaker 1: it's primary villain appeared facts. Can we get some traumatic music?
40:51
Speaker 1: That's right? Is that? Okay? All right? You know what? Yeah,
40:57
Speaker 1: I'm budget conscious, I got you, so. Yes. The briefs,
41:03
Speaker 1: this is a question that you hear. If you're you've
41:06
Speaker 1: probably heard this pretty often. If you're male identified, people
41:09
Speaker 1: will ask you boxers or briefs. They'll still ask you
41:12
Speaker 1: that today. It's almost cliche, right, yeah, It's sort of
41:15
Speaker 1: like a a sort of flirtatious thing someone might ask
41:18
Speaker 1: you perhaps maybe right, yeah, yeah, exactly, a little bit forward,
41:22
Speaker 1: a little cheeky, like you know, depending on how well
41:25
Speaker 1: you know you're close male friends. I'm sure at some
41:29
Speaker 1: point everybody's had that talk. It's kind of like a
41:32
Speaker 1: high school, middle school talk where you're like, oh, yeah,
41:34
Speaker 1: any where, Tidy Whitey's boxer guy. And there's an interesting
41:39
Speaker 1: thing that happened with a public image of Tidy Whitey's
41:41
Speaker 1: But first well, I think we need to talk a
41:44
Speaker 1: little bit about how this Boxer's versus Briefs rivalry came
41:48
Speaker 1: to be. This it was nineteen five, Okay, cast your
41:54
Speaker 1: memory back there. Jockey Briefs go on sale in Chicago.
41:58
Speaker 1: They're designed by a guy named Arthur Niebler who calls
42:01
Speaker 1: himself an apparel engineer. These first under it's so hard
42:06
Speaker 1: because we're we're in the same room together, so I
42:08
Speaker 1: keep going to like stand up and demonstrate stuff, but don't.
42:11
Speaker 1: We're a family show. So this These were the first
42:14
Speaker 1: underpants that didn't have any legs unlike a lot of
42:17
Speaker 1: those other other designs, and they had their flap was
42:21
Speaker 1: this y shaped opening. And this was so revolutionary for
42:27
Speaker 1: the little Australia business that it's been compared with the
42:31
Speaker 1: invention of the brawl. I can see that, Ben. Have
42:34
Speaker 1: you seen the show Trailer Park Boys. Randy was one
42:37
Speaker 1: of my favorite characters, the guy who's never wearing a shirt.
42:39
Speaker 1: Whenever he wants to fight, he always takes his pants
42:42
Speaker 1: off because it gives him more freedom of movement to
42:45
Speaker 1: kind of like gyrate around. And that's what briefs did, right.
42:49
Speaker 1: They gave you more freedom of movement. Because you're not
42:52
Speaker 1: restricted because they just come right up to the joints
42:54
Speaker 1: of your legs as opposed to like coming down further.
42:56
Speaker 1: I personally, I'm gonna put it out there. Box brief guy,
42:59
Speaker 1: Box a brief guy. I like the tight fit, but
43:02
Speaker 1: I also like a little on the leg I see yeah, yeah,
43:06
Speaker 1: you know. I guess we're putting all our all our
43:08
Speaker 1: draws on the table. I tend to go box or
43:11
Speaker 1: briefs myself. This this one, though, the jockey briefs that
43:16
Speaker 1: are sometimes called tidy Whitey's, they sold like hot cakes,
43:21
Speaker 1: like hot cakes for your butt. The thirty thousand were sold,
43:26
Speaker 1: and then they couple of months, in just a couple
43:28
Speaker 1: of months, yeah, exactly, in three months. And then they
43:33
Speaker 1: they started leveraging marketing in a brilliant way. They had
43:37
Speaker 1: a plane that would make special deliveries of what they
43:40
Speaker 1: called masculine support briefs to businesses across the state, and
43:45
Speaker 1: they called the plane the mascu line. You have to
43:50
Speaker 1: have the pause, you do. What does that print like, ben,
43:54
Speaker 1: Is it like separated by a hyphen or something? What's
43:57
Speaker 1: the branding? I think they do have a hyphen. They
43:58
Speaker 1: do have a little dash because they're they're really proud
44:01
Speaker 1: of that name. I get it, um, And they promised
44:05
Speaker 1: to deliver masculine support. Again. Part of why it was
44:10
Speaker 1: such a revolutionary development because you know, gave you support,
44:13
Speaker 1: male support, and that's why you connected it with the
44:16
Speaker 1: bra I believe. Yeah. Yeah. And so the battle for
44:19
Speaker 1: supremacy over what dudes would wear down South continued the
44:24
Speaker 1: rest of the twentieth century, and then it started to
44:26
Speaker 1: get weird because people were making these health claims and
44:29
Speaker 1: these are health claims that I am sure you Max
44:31
Speaker 1: and I all her growing up, or people say, hey,
44:35
Speaker 1: well if you and we're endeavoring to be honest. Your
44:38
Speaker 1: folks talking about the angle of the dangle. The angle
44:41
Speaker 1: of the dangle is a big, big one, you know
44:43
Speaker 1: in the idea? What explained that one? It was just like,
44:45
Speaker 1: you know, some folks are are hardcore evangelists for boxers
44:49
Speaker 1: because they think you need more hanging to uh promote
44:52
Speaker 1: you know, I guess procreation. Like maybe if you're stuff
44:57
Speaker 1: is too tightly packed, then it can overheat. I don't
45:01
Speaker 1: know exactly. Is that the hygiene Maybe you can get
45:03
Speaker 1: infections that yeah, maybe if it's like two tightly packed
45:07
Speaker 1: and you're you're getting hots and sweaty down there. It
45:09
Speaker 1: can cause some some hygiene issues. Yeah. But then the
45:14
Speaker 1: fans of the brief would argue other stuff, and they
45:16
Speaker 1: would say, well, here, okay, this is one I heard.
45:19
Speaker 1: I don't know in those common but I heard, uh,
45:22
Speaker 1: and I'm sure this is not scientifically sound. I had
45:26
Speaker 1: some folks tell me in middle school that if you
45:29
Speaker 1: wore boxers over time, what would happen is that your
45:33
Speaker 1: cod pieces would continue to draw. Yeah, you know, just
45:38
Speaker 1: like how is sometimes when how when people are elderly,
45:42
Speaker 1: sometimes their ears keep growing, you know, and struggling to
45:46
Speaker 1: and froing. Yes, exactly. And I do have a parody
45:49
Speaker 1: version of that another one. Oh you've heard the one. Yeah, yeah,
45:54
Speaker 1: dear bees, it's something that happens. I think if you
45:58
Speaker 1: get older to that happens. They sure, that's gravity. It's
46:01
Speaker 1: just gravity. You can't mess with gravity. No amount of
46:04
Speaker 1: technological garment innovation can mess with gravity, exactly. And so
46:09
Speaker 1: because of these health claims, regardless of their veracity, a
46:14
Speaker 1: lot of people felt like they had their well being
46:18
Speaker 1: at stake. And this is where we get to, This
46:23
Speaker 1: is where we I think we switched back for a second,
46:26
Speaker 1: and let's talk about World War One because it played
46:30
Speaker 1: a role in Undergarden. Super interesting. Let's not forget like corsets.
46:34
Speaker 1: You know, you picture corsets and you picture petticoats, and
46:37
Speaker 1: that covered up pretty large swath of history, right, like
46:40
Speaker 1: you know, the Old West, for example, the Frontier. Even
46:43
Speaker 1: they were even though they were stepping through streets that
46:46
Speaker 1: were like covered in mud and and and you know,
46:48
Speaker 1: horse manure, they were still wearing these bizarre bell shaped
46:53
Speaker 1: you know um petticoats that were at this point surrounded
46:55
Speaker 1: by steel. Right. We initially in the early days of them,
46:58
Speaker 1: they were made with reeds or willow rods that could
47:02
Speaker 1: be bent because they were they were flexible. But because
47:04
Speaker 1: of the war effort, women were discouraged. It actually caused
47:08
Speaker 1: a sea change in fashion because all of that steel
47:11
Speaker 1: was needed for the war effort. So women were discouraged
47:15
Speaker 1: by the government from buying these courses, which essentially caused
47:18
Speaker 1: a sea change in manufacturing and style. And it also
47:21
Speaker 1: saved the government twenty eight thousand tons of metal. Amazing, right,
47:26
Speaker 1: And no, that's no small effort. And that's where the
47:29
Speaker 1: new brazier comes into play. And then we see a
47:31
Speaker 1: cavalcade of other innovations, garter belts, girdles to replace courses,
47:36
Speaker 1: perma girdles. I gotta say real quick, this is from
47:40
Speaker 1: some of these facts here are from a great article
47:42
Speaker 1: on Family Tree magazine called The Revealing History of Underwear
47:45
Speaker 1: by David A. Frisle, which is a great last name. Yes,
47:49
Speaker 1: shout out to you, Mr Frixele. Also then, also we
47:52
Speaker 1: see nylon stockings. We see sixty four million pairs of
47:55
Speaker 1: those sold, such that kind of like the PS five,
48:01
Speaker 1: manufacturers couldn't keep up with demand, and at some point
48:06
Speaker 1: some people were actually painting on stockings, which is I
48:12
Speaker 1: think interesting. It is interesting. And remember, you know, originally
48:15
Speaker 1: stockings were made of silk, which was a very you know,
48:19
Speaker 1: rare and expensive material. Nylon really democratized the wearing of stockings.
48:23
Speaker 1: And I have very distinct memories of being a kid
48:26
Speaker 1: and uh, those stockings that came in like the egg
48:29
Speaker 1: you know, you'd buy them in almost I can't remember
48:32
Speaker 1: the name of the brand, but it really became a
48:34
Speaker 1: fashion thing, especially kind of in the eighties. Maybe is
48:37
Speaker 1: when I picture like shoulder pads and nylon stockings, but
48:40
Speaker 1: obviously it was big before that. But here's something that
48:44
Speaker 1: I didn't realize. Wait wait wait wait wait before going
48:47
Speaker 1: I realized that's why they were called legs like l
48:51
Speaker 1: like eggs with two g Yeah, boom, that's why they
48:55
Speaker 1: were sold that way. You nailed it, very clever, very
48:58
Speaker 1: clever branding. But here's something I didn't know. The thong.
49:01
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the thong. It gets its own song. Yeah,
49:06
Speaker 1: I'll tell you who who didn't want to see that thong? Um? Well,
49:09
Speaker 1: actually did no. Let me let me rephrase that. The
49:11
Speaker 1: mayor of New York in the nineteen thirties, the guy
49:15
Speaker 1: who the airport connector, Mayor Fiarrello LaGuardia. This is there's
49:19
Speaker 1: a huge like red light district. I mean, you know,
49:21
Speaker 1: sex work was not legal, but there were lots of
49:24
Speaker 1: burlesque type joints and strip clubs. Right. Times Square used
49:28
Speaker 1: to be lousy with them up until I think the
49:30
Speaker 1: like the nineties, you know, when they kind of think
49:32
Speaker 1: it was Juliani who cleaned up quote unquote cleaned up
49:36
Speaker 1: Times Square turned it into basically like Disneyland for tourists.
49:39
Speaker 1: It's a little weird. I would have I vaguely remember
49:42
Speaker 1: growing up going to New York in the nineties and
49:43
Speaker 1: and the Trash Year, Dirty Year version, but LaGuardia ordered
49:49
Speaker 1: by like statute, I guess strippers to replace their g strings,
49:54
Speaker 1: which is, you know, it's like a thong, but it's
49:56
Speaker 1: literally a string. It's basically how they could get around
49:58
Speaker 1: with him them not being full nude. It doesn't look comfortable.
50:02
Speaker 1: I've never worn one, but it doesn't look comfortable. I
50:04
Speaker 1: haven't either. But the thong is just it's honestly full
50:06
Speaker 1: circle kind of back to the loincloth. It kind of
50:09
Speaker 1: is it's like a reduced loincloth that's stretchy and you know,
50:13
Speaker 1: shows enough of the butt, but it's not like just
50:15
Speaker 1: it doesn't disappear into the butt entirely. Right yep. And
50:19
Speaker 1: years later the four eight eleven original rise thong in
50:24
Speaker 1: like a jet it's a it's a jet fear button.
50:29
Speaker 1: The four at eleven model to mock three thong now
50:33
Speaker 1: with I C B. M. S. Yeah, it gets accepted,
50:36
Speaker 1: It gets widespread acceptance as underwear. Just like you said,
50:39
Speaker 1: it's a loin cloth. There was something else interesting we
50:42
Speaker 1: found here. Before the nineteen fifties, pretty much everybody thought
50:46
Speaker 1: of T shirts the way that we would think of
50:48
Speaker 1: underwear correct, like you would if you were a normal person.
50:53
Speaker 1: You would only be wearing a T shirt if you
50:55
Speaker 1: were doing hard labor, playing sports. And the fact that
50:58
Speaker 1: like right now, let's see, um, you know, you're wearing
51:02
Speaker 1: a T shirt, Max, you're rocking a tea. I've got
51:04
Speaker 1: one on, but I've got one on underwear style, Like
51:07
Speaker 1: so you're also wearing a polo on top of that,
51:09
Speaker 1: which is a style of tea with just like a
51:11
Speaker 1: collar there it is, yeah, yeah, exactly, And that would
51:15
Speaker 1: have been unusual. We would have looked out of place
51:18
Speaker 1: or way too informal, or that's the thing, way too informal,
51:23
Speaker 1: except for the intervention of a guy named Marlon Brando
51:27
Speaker 1: in one he started appearing in these canonical classic hits
51:33
Speaker 1: like Streetcar named Desire just wearing a tight T shirt
51:36
Speaker 1: showing off, you know, showing off his his bot a
51:39
Speaker 1: little bit. And then he did the Wild One where
51:43
Speaker 1: he also wore a T shirt. James Dean Rebel Without
51:45
Speaker 1: a Cause also a T shirt. And now a T
51:47
Speaker 1: shirt becomes an everyday thing that people wear, and you
51:50
Speaker 1: gotta think, and I'm just kind of spitballing here, but
51:53
Speaker 1: it was probably designed they didn't. I don't think they
51:57
Speaker 1: fully understood the pop culture phenomenon that it would create.
52:00
Speaker 1: I think initially it was probably like, this is an everyman,
52:03
Speaker 1: you know. The guy in street Car is meant to
52:05
Speaker 1: be kind of a working stiff, you know, so it's
52:07
Speaker 1: probably like, okay, this is what like. You know, it
52:10
Speaker 1: was meant to show he's not rich. He's not rich exactly,
52:14
Speaker 1: same with Rebel without a Cause, although I think he
52:16
Speaker 1: had rich parents. That's a really interesting movie. I need
52:18
Speaker 1: to watch that one again. It's a lot weirder than
52:21
Speaker 1: I thought. It opens with this weird little clown thing,
52:24
Speaker 1: like a little clown toy, and it's very interesting, odd movie.
52:27
Speaker 1: I I assumed it was gonna be all motorcycle racing
52:30
Speaker 1: in bravado, but it's actually very nuanced and strange. Film.
52:33
Speaker 1: Highly recommended. Also has a really great sequence that takes
52:36
Speaker 1: place in my favorite place in Los Angeles, the Griffith
52:38
Speaker 1: Park Observatory. Ah Yes. And if whether you're at Los Angeles,
52:43
Speaker 1: New York, or anywhere between in the nineteen sixties, you
52:47
Speaker 1: notice something called the sexual revolution. It's also revolutionize social
52:51
Speaker 1: latitudes towards unmentionables, and so it's important to note that
52:56
Speaker 1: a lot of things that would have formerly been considered
52:58
Speaker 1: scandalous or now increase seemingly being considered mainstream. Right. And
53:04
Speaker 1: and now we see that underwear sometimes followed larger trends
53:07
Speaker 1: and outer clothing, Like when in the UK, when I
53:10
Speaker 1: think it was maybe the eighties seventies, there was a
53:13
Speaker 1: move towards tight genes and so people went back to
53:16
Speaker 1: briefs because it couldn't put their boxers in the tight
53:19
Speaker 1: jeans without looking really awkward and weird. And then I
53:22
Speaker 1: found this really interesting quote where a person named Elizabeth
53:26
Speaker 1: Eliasson of bjorn Borg. Had to be clear bjorn Borg
53:31
Speaker 1: is a company named after the tennis player, said that
53:36
Speaker 1: all the underwear trends started in the nineteen eighties with
53:39
Speaker 1: the gay market. They wanted to have innovative products, and
53:45
Speaker 1: because of this you would see like there was a sexualization.
53:49
Speaker 1: You see like market mark and uh, designers like Calvin
53:53
Speaker 1: Klein are using pretty much nude models in their ads.
53:58
Speaker 1: And also people start associating boxers with kind of like success.
54:04
Speaker 1: This is this is the grown man's panties. No, it's
54:06
Speaker 1: it's it's very true. And I gotta say to you, Ben,
54:09
Speaker 1: you're talking about those type jeans and having to wear
54:11
Speaker 1: briefs under them. Essentially we've come full circle again, and
54:15
Speaker 1: that's sort of the modern cod piece, Yes, the modern
54:18
Speaker 1: cod piece. This is where we also see this this
54:21
Speaker 1: strange shift in aesthetic or the strange shift shift. Yes,
54:26
Speaker 1: there we go, the strange chemise in in this in
54:30
Speaker 1: a cultural perspective, because for a time, boxers, you know,
54:34
Speaker 1: they're getting, they're becoming associated with, as he said, more
54:37
Speaker 1: well to do up and coming like yuppie types. They're
54:40
Speaker 1: the grown man's panties. And conversely, briefs are seen as
54:47
Speaker 1: like the underwear of boys children y, like the g
54:53
Speaker 1: I joe prints and all of that stuff, and it
54:55
Speaker 1: became seen like a sign of immaturity exactly. But then
54:58
Speaker 1: enters Marky mark And and Calvin Klein or or actually,
55:02
Speaker 1: you know, I always think of when I think of
55:03
Speaker 1: Calvin Klein, I think of back to the future. When
55:05
Speaker 1: she pulls this, you know, his mom in the in
55:08
Speaker 1: the past. You know, he's he's he's he's unconscious because
55:11
Speaker 1: I guess he gets hit by her parents car. And
55:13
Speaker 1: then she takes the pants off and she says that
55:16
Speaker 1: his name is printed is underwear and she calls him
55:18
Speaker 1: Calvin for the whole movie. Um, but this changes that
55:21
Speaker 1: exactly then right around because of Calvin Klein and um
55:25
Speaker 1: featuring you know, the idea of an underwear model. That
55:28
Speaker 1: wasn't even a thing, you know, Um, but it maybe
55:31
Speaker 1: it was. But this is really when it becomes front
55:33
Speaker 1: and center and on billboards, on TV commercials and like
55:35
Speaker 1: all over the place and sort of normalizes that sexuality,
55:38
Speaker 1: much to the chagrin of certain evangelical sets I would imagine. Right, yeah, now,
55:43
Speaker 1: underwear is not just functional, it's a statement about sex, fashion, money,
55:48
Speaker 1: and your appeal. And so seeing celebrities wearing these garments
55:52
Speaker 1: would cause people to run out and get their own
55:55
Speaker 1: or maybe get some for their partners, right, and by
55:59
Speaker 1: clothing were them. So this translates directly to sales. And
56:03
Speaker 1: that was starting in the seventies, yeah, going through to
56:06
Speaker 1: the eighties when that was probably at its peak with
56:08
Speaker 1: the with the market Mark stuff. Well that was also
56:10
Speaker 1: like Markie Mark would probably have been like late eighties,
56:12
Speaker 1: like early nineties. Yeah, that really never went away. No, no,
56:16
Speaker 1: And now we're reaching the conclusion of our tail. For
56:20
Speaker 1: now there is a future of underwear that will will
56:23
Speaker 1: cover Uh, I guess much much later. But as you know,
56:27
Speaker 1: one of our favorite arbitrary rules here on Ridiculous History
56:31
Speaker 1: is that we consider history stuff that happened before about
56:35
Speaker 1: the mid nineties. Max, did we tell you that? I
56:38
Speaker 1: don't think you guys did tell me that cut off
56:41
Speaker 1: as apartheid are cut off? Is literally yes, And that's
56:45
Speaker 1: that's why we're stopping at this era. Uh. The hybrid
56:49
Speaker 1: Boxer brief, there's so many more, know you and I
56:53
Speaker 1: did a round up of some just interesting underwear facts
56:56
Speaker 1: that we found. Dude, this first one almost makes me
56:58
Speaker 1: think George Lucas was all a little perth. So the
57:01
Speaker 1: story is unconfirmed that Harry Fisher didn't wear underwear while
57:06
Speaker 1: filming Star Wars because George Lucas told her there is
57:11
Speaker 1: no underwear at outer space. George, whatever, man, I mean,
57:16
Speaker 1: it's the future, man, there's future underwear. I would let
57:20
Speaker 1: to point out that at no point in Star Wars
57:22
Speaker 1: do they say it's the future. Well, actually it's supposed
57:24
Speaker 1: to have happened a long long time ha ha and
57:27
Speaker 1: a galaxy far far away, it's true. Um, you know.
57:30
Speaker 1: Sticking with maybe a military type theme, um, the expression
57:34
Speaker 1: of going commando apparently first started being used in the
57:38
Speaker 1: seventies as like university slang, like in frat type circles.
57:42
Speaker 1: One of the first mentions apparently occurred at the University
57:45
Speaker 1: of North Carolina back in nineteen four. Um. But it
57:49
Speaker 1: refers to, of course, the idea of a commando, a
57:52
Speaker 1: military man being ready to go at a moment's notice
57:55
Speaker 1: and not needing to put on drawers. Okay, that's illuminated eating. Okay.
58:01
Speaker 1: It's also illegal in Thailand to leave your house without underwear. Uh.
58:05
Speaker 1: And also I feel they also execute you for smoking
58:09
Speaker 1: pot in Thailand. Uh. It does have harsh drug laws.
58:12
Speaker 1: If you're traveling to a place that has that says
58:15
Speaker 1: they have harsh drug laws, just believe them. Just believe them.
58:18
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, you could party at home.
58:21
Speaker 1: But but but also one thing I thought would be
58:25
Speaker 1: would be fun for us to do it if you're interested,
58:28
Speaker 1: is I was looking for underwear slang because whenever we
58:31
Speaker 1: talk about things that are like the oh naughty stuff,
58:35
Speaker 1: we always find all this beautiful language about it, Like
58:39
Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin's long List, his reference work that's just phrases
58:45
Speaker 1: for getting drunk, or all the various names people have
58:48
Speaker 1: for genitals. We found some cool underwear slang. One of
58:52
Speaker 1: them is pretties, which I think is so creepy. Yeah,
58:56
Speaker 1: that's super creepy. Um, it's only goodness pretty, that's not cool. Um. Then,
59:04
Speaker 1: of course we've got some there's different ones from from
59:07
Speaker 1: different regions. Like he said, We've got things like granny panties.
59:11
Speaker 1: We've got drawls. Of course, we've got brief thongs, g strings, pantaloons. Um,
59:16
Speaker 1: what else We've got weener basket. Oh finally, finally, that's
59:21
Speaker 1: high class banana hammock. Yeah, I've heard that there's uh
59:24
Speaker 1: tap pants, which the tap dancers. Cutty Sark is one.
59:29
Speaker 1: It's also whiskey, right, Budgee smugglers, manhole covers. Manhole covers
59:37
Speaker 1: is clever. Of course nickers is good, and that has
59:39
Speaker 1: its own interesting history. But my heart goes to the
59:44
Speaker 1: union suit. I just want to start referring to that,
59:48
Speaker 1: like I'm wearing my union suits. My union suit is
59:51
Speaker 1: covering your birthday suits. It covers your birthday. Well done.
59:54
Speaker 1: You've got a couple more dumb ones just from belatory
59:56
Speaker 1: dot com. We've got sausage skins, kicks under ru's mantees,
1:00:00
Speaker 1: punch and holder, Grundy's trolleys and skies. I'm gonna I'm
1:00:04
Speaker 1: gonna try to make some up maxigans, break these with
1:00:08
Speaker 1: salad cues. How about your your hands free? Yeah you go,
1:00:14
Speaker 1: because otherwise you have to just hold them right, It's true. Yeah,
1:00:18
Speaker 1: um fig leaf. There we go, There we go. Uh,
1:00:25
Speaker 1: let's see, let's see. Uh your your cross Roads. That's weird.
1:00:30
Speaker 1: That's a really good movie with Britney Spears and Okay,
1:00:32
Speaker 1: well we'll take that. And I think that's it's a
1:00:35
Speaker 1: great bone Thugs and harmony song. You have a really
1:00:37
Speaker 1: great I Do I Do I? I love that version.
1:00:42
Speaker 1: Maybe one day we'll all be able to play it
1:00:44
Speaker 1: together and not get sued by one of those giants.
1:00:48
Speaker 1: That's true. Gosh, this is a fun one. Thank you too.
1:00:51
Speaker 1: Free to the loom first and foremost like, thank you
1:00:53
Speaker 1: please send me one of those fruit mascot costumes. I
1:00:56
Speaker 1: wouldn't be the great We'll wear it on a soon
1:01:00
Speaker 1: to be announced live event that we're gonna do. Yeah
1:01:03
Speaker 1: they still if they still? Thanks to you, Ben, Thanks
1:01:07
Speaker 1: to you, Max Williams, super producer Max Williams, Alex Williams,
1:01:11
Speaker 1: who composed our theme, Super producer Casey Pegram, all the
1:01:14
Speaker 1: super producers of Days of Your Yes, and thanks to
1:01:17
Speaker 1: you knowl it's great to hang out in person. Thanks
1:01:19
Speaker 1: to Gabe Lucier, our research associate. Christopher ocotis Eve's Jeff Coat,
1:01:24
Speaker 1: and thanks to Nathan, and thanks to Yeah and thanks
1:01:28
Speaker 1: well this the second time we said the name, so
1:01:30
Speaker 1: we can power through this. Thanks to the Quister for sure,
1:01:33
Speaker 1: and then you know, thanks to all the people who
1:01:36
Speaker 1: have tirelessly worked to make underwear better. Honestly, because if
1:01:41
Speaker 1: you look at the history this this is a wild ride,
1:01:45
Speaker 1: it really is. See you next time, folks. For more
1:01:55
Speaker 1: podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
1:01:57
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.