Latest / King Dems Podcast | Growth Mindset, Leadership, AI and Business Insights / Growth Mindset Wealth: AI Powered Leadership and Smart Business Strategies with Stephanie Hayes

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Growth Mindset Wealth: AI Powered Leadership and Smart Business Strategies with Stephanie Hayes · King Dems Podcast | Growth Mindset, Leadership, AI and Business Insights

0:00
And I say, Hey, I learned about this idea.
0:02
I was having this thought, let's take a little team and go
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explore that. So instead of being like, oh,
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It's like, hey, I wonder, I wonder what could happen.
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Ladies and gentlemen, you once again welcome to the Kingdom's
1:21
podcast. And today I've got will meet a
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very, very, very special guest fighting out of British
1:30
Columbia. Welcome Stephanie, the Founders
1:34
founder. Hey.
1:38
How are you Stephanie it? Was quite an introduction.
1:42
Thank you very much. I am doing well you're.
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Welcome. Wow, you know.
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That's the Bruce Buffer introduction, you know, in
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MMAUFC, you know, and that's why I was.
1:53
Asking you if you know anything about UFC, but I guess you can
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tell. You can tell your peak boy about
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it, that you got a Bruce Buffer introduction today, yeah?
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I'm sure he'll be very impressed.
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He's not impressed with much of anything these days, so.
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Wow, wow, wow, wow. I hope.
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I hope he does. You know you are a strategist,
2:11
founder, innovator, mentor, and much more.
2:16
Can't you share a defining moment from your journey that
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ship to your perspective on entrepreneurship and innovation?
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And those are two things that are important to yourself and
2:26
myself. Right, Yeah, You know, I think
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there's a a point in time that all sort of entrepreneurs go
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through where they finally realise they have the.
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I wouldn't even say it's permission, but the capability
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to follow any path, right. And I can remember with that
2:45
moment that I made the transition from I have to do
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what other people are doing because that makes sense to I've
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got this crazy idea and I'm just going to, that's what it's going
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to be. If I felt it in my heart, I knew
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what it was going to be. And I was in Texas of all
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places, not somewhere that I go a lot, but I was with a client
3:03
and a retreat. And we were spending the day
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just kind of, you know, putting all our stuff on the wall and
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looking at our own businesses. And I was looking at all of this
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stuff that I've done, all these things that I've tried, all
3:16
these skills I've created and all these projects I've worked
3:20
on. And I was like, I'm not really,
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I don't feel like I'm building anything, right.
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I'm just kind of pinballing from one thing to another.
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And it's all good. And I've gained a lot of
3:29
experience. But I wanted to feel like there
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was something that was mine and that I had a real purpose that I
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was working towards. And that's when this whole sort
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of direction evolved for me around exits and strategy and
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building growth strategy from an exit perspective.
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And assets inside our business and why are we, you know,
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spending all our time chasing income when we could be building
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something that's going to create value for us in the long term
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that's much bigger than, you know, the income that we're
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chasing today. And so this whole path sort of
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evolved and it felt so aligned and so completely right for me.
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And then the conversations that I started having with people in
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my community, it just all resonated.
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And that was the moment that I realised that not only is this
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the direction I want to focus on, but it's also totally fine
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for me to be able to just say, this is not a conversation
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people are having right now. It's not a typical path.
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And that's also OK. Like I can create that myself.
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And that was really empowering. And that was, it felt very, very
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aligned for me. And I think it takes like some
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people take a very long time and lots of people take a very long
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time to get to that point where they're like, this is it for me.
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And I love seeing those transitions with entrepreneurs.
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Wow, There's a lot to unpack here.
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I did an episode, I think probably a few months ago, I'm
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not very, very sure. I think probably about three
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months ago with a guy from your neck of the woods.
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And I think the title of that episode is Beautiful Exit.
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So basically we're talking about building businesses for the
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purpose of exit strategies. And while you're doing that, the
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way you run the business is different from the way you run
5:15
business, you know, on a regular basis because you are very, very
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concerned about valuation of that business because the
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valuation of a business is what makes it attractive for exit.
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So I'd like for you to touch on valuation when it comes to
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viewing businesses for exit. I think that it's not quite as
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cut and dried as that. And I think that's what I had
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sort of come to this conclusion around that there.
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I guess there are lots of people who focus on exit strategy and
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then that becomes the laser focus that we just want to build
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the business for valuation, right.
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And I think that there's a lot of value and, and this is what I
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will do with my clients is we'll we'll start from a valuation
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perspective and say what would, what would the business get you
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right now? Like just right now, you wanted
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to sell it, what would it get you?
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But the most important part of that conversation is the the
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risk adjustments, right? So when you go through risk
6:12
adjustments inside evaluation, that's where you start to see
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all the opportunities. That's where you start to see
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where you can take this business to ultimately reach evaluation.
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That's attractive and that is, is something that you want to
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put in front of a buyer. But I'll say the piece that gets
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missing there with, you know, a lot of these sort of a focused
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guys is that when you're solely when you when you shift your
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focus in your business to just think about valuation, you're
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still gonna be building a business.
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You might be building a business that you don't really like.
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And there's a problem with that because you're not gonna put
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your effort in your you, you become quite burned out and
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quite unhappy. And my goal is to have business
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owners building business that they are super in love with and
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that, you know, our strategies are derived from what we can
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create in terms of valuation in the future.
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So both those things have to be true.
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And so we have that combination like I might come up with a
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bunch of strategies based on your valuation that are going to
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increase your valuation, but you might never want to do one of
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those strategies because it's so out of alignment for you and
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it's not something that you could ever envision doing inside
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your business. And so the creative part of this
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and the creative strategic part of this is to be able to marry
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those two things. How can I put a business owner
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in their most powerful position, doing their most powerful work
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and creating a growth strategy that's going to get them to a
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place where they have a much more valuable business.
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So those two things, I just would say there's a caveat to
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the whole build just for an exit.
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I think that that it's very hard as a business owner to put go
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day-to-day, putting your time and effort into a business that
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is not aligned with what you actually want to build.
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Absolutely. And if I were to summarise what
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you're talking about, you're talking about achieving a
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balance or an optimal mix of passion and profit, Passion and
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profit. Profit, right?
8:03
Yeah. Yeah, so if you, if you optimise
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passion and profit, definitely the value would typically go up.
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So the obsession should not be on the valuation, but the
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obsession should be on, you know, using the passion to drive
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profit. And yeah, if you do the right
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way, the valuation will actually get into a good place,
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especially with guidance from financial experts like Stephanie
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Hayes. You know, Speaking of profits,
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there's something I always love to say that revenue is vanity,
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profit the sanity, and cash is king.
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And if you wish, you can say cash is reality and profit says
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that you're winning in business or cash flows determines how
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long you stay in business. And I know that's something you
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would agree with me. So when you talk about
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innovation beyond just profits, which is key to your philosophy
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highlighting relevance, you know, stewardship, safety, and
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trust, could you please elaborate on why these often
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overlooked aspects of innovation are critical for sustainable
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business growth? So innovation, this was my post
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grad work was in an innovation management.
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So I had this sort of near and dear to my heart.
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But so a lot of people think like innovation is sexy, right?
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It's sexy for profit businesses. And then I even I work with a
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lot of not like public sector organisations that still want to
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not necessarily not-for-profit, but but public sector
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organisations, right. So they're not, you know,
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they're, they're still bringing in money, but they're doing it
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for the purposes of something different, right.
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And so they're funding the organisation.
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So a lot of it becomes the sort of sexy thing.
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And I see a lot of organisations sort of follow a cookie cutter
10:03
approach to innovation inside of an organisation and people just
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want to focus on the making cool things.
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But when innovation is actually part of your strategy and is
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very important to your strategy and to your growth, then you
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need to manage it. And that sounds really like
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counterintuitive and it doesn't sound sexy and fun.
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But you've got to put a, a structure in place so that you
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are actually doing something with the results of your
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innovation and that you are being very conscious and very
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focused and intentional about why you're innovating.
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So I've got a public sector organisation I'm working with to
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design their innovation strategy.
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And you know, the, the sort of the feet on the street, they're
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like, yeah, innovation. They try to follow all of the
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strategies of for profit organisation, but there's so
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much missing because they don't like their reason for innovating
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is to be good stewards of taxpayer money.
11:00
They're they that so that they are for regulatory and, and, and
11:04
safety concerns. So that they are, you know that
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they are doing the right thing for their constituents.
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Those are not the same motivators that a for profit
11:14
organisation like a tech product company is investing in
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innovation, right? And so you have very different
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structures and very different processes for managing
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innovation inside both those organisations.
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So there's a really good book that was written many years ago
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about managing innovation and why you have to actually have a
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process for taking the result, like being very systematic about
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what you discover as part of your innovation process and
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making decisions about what you're going to do with it.
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And having sort of a container for innovation.
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It's not just about, yeah, blue sky.
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Just go out and try all these things.
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Well, it's not very valuable to the business if that's what
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you're doing, right. So I do believe that there's a
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whole other side of innovation, which is about the management of
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it and about the optimization of what you're investing in and
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also ethics and security and safety and all of that sort of
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thing that you have to consider as particularly, you know, based
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on the environment that you're in.
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There's a lot to unpack here in terms of the motivation, right?
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You clearly put it that sometimes you could do the right
12:20
thing out of the wrong motivation, but that is not
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sustainable. When you do the right thing, one
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out of the right motivation, that is when you're able to
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achieve sustainability. Is that correct?
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Yes. And what you do with the results
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of your innovation process is super important, right.
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If you're just going out there and being like everybody just
12:45
submit ideas, OK, what are you going to do with those ideas
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and, and how do you, how do you process those?
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How do you prioritise those? How do you how do you take those
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through a very rigorous process so that you are ensuring you're
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getting the most value out of every step of your, you know,
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your innovation process? And I've seen organisations just
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stand up an innovation team and they're like, yeah, here's some
13:07
money, just go and do whatever you want.
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But then they build something that's actually in conflict with
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the values of the organisation or in conflict with, they're
13:16
just not sustainable for, you know, the business.
13:19
And so I, there's a huge like value in blue sky thinking, but
13:23
then you also have to be able to integrate the results of that
13:28
blue sky thinking into the existing organisation.
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And the decision there is do I change something?
13:35
There's enough value in what we've discovered that I changed
13:37
something inside the organisation or this is an
13:40
incremental innovation. So I have to figure out how to
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integrate it with what we've got already.
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Or sometimes there's pressure for timelines, right?
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I have to get this to market much more quickly.
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So that means I'm going, I can't invent something totally new for
13:55
the way that we're going to sustain and deliver this.
13:57
And maybe there's an incremental roll out for whatever we've
14:00
discovered. So there's like, there's a lot
14:02
that goes into innovation and I think a lot of people don't
14:05
understand that. There's a lot of moving pieces,
14:08
a lot of moving variables, you know, when it comes to
14:11
innovation and especially when it's tech really related, rather
14:17
the speed with which you know when I say technological
14:22
advancement happens is very, very massive.
14:26
So sometimes you're even on a project to achieve a particular
14:30
outcome and then there is already like an upgraded
14:34
solution to that problem you're trying to solve.
14:37
Innovation is quite a tricky 1, and I think that's why it needs
14:42
to be properly strategized, properly planned.
14:44
And we need experts like yourself, you know, to guide the
14:47
process, you know, and of course, Speaking of guiding the
14:50
process, you have actually successfully coached overall
14:54
10,000 individuals into becoming thriving these as owners through
14:59
Fully Booked VA. What's the most common obstacle
15:02
people face when transitioning from traditional jobs to
15:06
entrepreneurship, and how can they overcome challenges?
15:10
There's, I would say there's sort of two things.
15:12
There's the the mindset of having been an employee and
15:17
having someone tell you what. To mindset, I love that you know
15:20
that the subtitle of the show is Growth Mindset, Leadership and
15:25
Business Insights, so I'm happy you're mentioning the mindsets.
15:29
You are validating the purpose of this show.
15:33
Thank you and God bless. You 90% of the coaching we do
15:36
inside fully booked Virginia is mindset coaching right, So the
15:40
tactical stuff is the easy part it's.
15:43
Exactly. Getting from that place, if
15:46
somebody is telling me what to do to getting to the place where
15:50
I have to decide what I'm doing on my own.
15:53
And that's very, very confronting for a lot of people.
15:55
And there's this, you know, the other side of that is confidence
15:58
and having the confidence to trust yourself to know that you
16:02
are going to take some action and it may or may not result in
16:06
what you're hoping it results in.
16:08
But when we shift that mindset from a mindset of judgement,
16:12
like everything has to be either good or bad, to a judgement
16:16
mindset of curiosity where it's like, OK, this happened.
16:19
It wasn't what I expected to happen or what I wanted to
16:22
happen. But now I have better
16:24
information and I'm like this much further ahead.
16:27
So a lot of people just stall on taking any action because
16:30
they're so afraid of that judgement of themselves from
16:33
other people. And they also just don't have
16:35
the confidence yet in themselves to, to know and to feel strongly
16:41
about the actions that they do take.
16:43
So we do a lot of coaching to get them into action.
16:46
And we sort of say that there's three pillars of you being
16:50
successful as a starting out as a as a freelancer or service
16:53
based business owner. And I think this sort of applies
16:56
to everybody. But the first one is, is your
16:58
commitment to your journey, right?
17:00
Like I'm committed. I'm going to decide that this is
17:03
what I'm going to do. Because if you keep 1 foot in
17:05
and 1 foot out and you give yourself the option to waffle,
17:09
like that's the kiss of death. The second one is stay in
17:12
consistent action. So whatever that is, just keep
17:14
yourself moving forward and trying things and doing things
17:17
and, and even if they're little baby steps, just taking some
17:20
action. And the third one is to stay
17:23
supported. And so that's why we've created
17:25
the community that we have. And that's why people like
17:27
there's so much isolation as a business owner that that's those
17:31
are the moments when people just can give up.
17:34
And when they when they see and they can validate that other
17:38
people, it's normalised, right? Like other people are having the
17:40
same challenges, having the same questions.
17:43
Sometimes people show up to the coaching calls just to be there,
17:46
right? Just to be in community with
17:47
people who are doing the same thing as them, even though they
17:49
don't have a question or challenge or whatever.
17:51
There's something so strong about community and something so
17:53
strong about being validated that you're just like everyone
17:56
else, like everyone else is also, you know, going through
18:00
the same thing, have the same questions, whatever it might be.
18:03
Those three things I think are the most important things for
18:06
people to remember when they're going through this journey.
18:10
Wow, thank you very much for, you know, those golden Nuggets.
18:13
Now last thing you talk about is actually resonating with what I
18:18
have on my wall. It's not over when you lose,
18:21
it's over when you quit and and a war on.
18:24
Who listens to this podcast regularly knows how I talk about
18:28
consistency constantly. Consistency is a secret weapon.
18:33
It's a highly, highly underestimated weapon.
18:36
You know, I like to tell people I weaponize consistency.
18:39
If you keep, you know, being consistent at anything in the
18:44
world, you will make astronomical, you know, progress
18:48
after, you know, a period of time.
18:51
But people don't realise that just putting the work every day,
18:55
no matter how little it is, and it will surprise you what you'll
18:58
achieve in a year, in two years, or people tend to chase
19:03
wholesale changes and wholesale changes do not come around very
19:08
often. So he's what is, you know.
19:10
Thank you very much for the golden Nuggets that you're
19:13
sharing on the show today. While we talk about your work
19:16
here, emphasise creating agile operating models and managing
19:21
change effectively. In your experience, what's the
19:24
secret to embedding agility and resilience into a company's
19:28
culture? Well, I come from the tech
19:30
industry and so agility in agile is a very like, it's a very
19:34
different terminology in the technology world.
19:38
But when we talk about agility and to me, agility is part of
19:41
resilience. This is about, this is very much
19:44
about a growth mindset and it's all about seeing, understanding
19:47
and and seeing your business as something very fluid, right.
19:51
And when people, one of the things that these early stage
19:53
business owners do is that they, they get, they get told and sold
19:57
a bill of goods that the biggest thing you have to have is a
20:00
vision and a strategy and a goal.
20:04
Yes, I agree there's there's a lot of value in being able to,
20:08
you know, articulate what you want, but what they do is they
20:12
get really. Committed to their success is
20:17
only defined by reaching a certain point.
20:19
Like they're going to get to a place and then everything is
20:22
going to be perfect. And that's just not what
20:24
happens, right? Business is so fluid and it's,
20:28
you know, by the time you get to that place, you're already
20:30
focused on something else. And so when we can get out of
20:33
that mindset of like, I'm not successful unless I've reached a
20:37
certain point and understand that every day is a bit of a
20:40
continuum. Yes, we want to be working
20:42
towards something and having that something defined for
20:45
yourself makes it much more likely you're going to be
20:48
successful in that regard. But trying like being
20:51
uncomfortable with the fluidity of our business, like that's the
20:54
joy of business is that every day can be totally different.
20:58
And every day we can make different decisions and pivot in
21:00
another direction and, and build something new.
21:02
I, I think that's, that's where it roots resistance and, and you
21:07
know, this rigidity comes from is this, these people are not
21:11
necessarily business experts and they by their own admission.
21:15
And so they get really like, they, they listen to this
21:18
commentary in this narrative and they think I'm a, I'm a failure
21:21
if I, if I shift from this like rigid goal and they get stuck in
21:27
that and they just like, they freeze and they don't know which
21:31
way to move and they don't know how to get out of this.
21:33
So this recognition that we're in this very fluid, like
21:36
business is very fluid. Even in a big corporation, it's
21:39
still fluid. And I, I work with these public
21:41
sector organisations that are so structured and so, you know,
21:44
rigid in terms of their, you know, their, their HR processes
21:49
and their, their internal processes.
21:51
And man, like it takes 8 times longer for anything to be
21:55
achieved in that environment because there's no permission to
21:59
be fluid. There's no structure like
22:02
there's, there's, it's a bit of like a structure actually gives
22:07
you freedom and structure is very important inside your
22:09
business. But we have to understand what,
22:11
what we want structure around and what we, what we need to be
22:14
more fluid around. And so understanding that and,
22:18
and being able to build that into the business and, and be
22:21
able to give everyone permission to sort of move around these
22:25
things is super important. So I'm I'm fortunate to have
22:30
that experience in so many big public sector organisations
22:33
because you can see exactly where this rigidity happens and
22:37
how much money gets wasted because of that rigidity.
22:42
You know, I like the way you talk about structure because
22:44
structure is very important to me.
22:47
Looking at my background with the beak for accounting firms, I
22:51
was with PWCKPMG and a very large part of our success is
22:57
actually attributed to the structures that are in place.
23:02
Structures help you to be flexible, structures help you to
23:07
be scalable. But when people have their own
23:10
organisations, they fail to implement and institute
23:15
structures. It just feels like you try to
23:19
achieve a goal without strategy it's not possible.
23:24
I think it's the difference between structure and culture,
23:27
right? So especially in like a firm
23:30
like PwC, yeah, it's super important that in a financial
23:34
world that there is structure and that we work within those
23:37
structures. But TWC also has to have a
23:41
culture of agility that allows us to question structure, that
23:45
allows us to challenge structure that allows us to innovate on
23:48
that structure so that you can turn in a dime.
23:52
Otherwise you end up with a big rigid organisation that's stuck
23:56
1985 right where where we don't know.
23:59
And what ends up happening then is that you can't attract like,
24:03
it's a, it's a, it's a cycle, right?
24:05
You can't attract innovative thinkers.
24:07
You can't attract people who are going to continue to push your
24:11
edges. And then you end up a dead,
24:13
right? Like just a dead old dead head
24:16
and piece of wood floating in the ocean, right?
24:19
Yeah, you cannot teach an old dog new tricks, you know, But
24:22
the old dog needs to, would I say, have a young mind.
24:27
I think of being old or being young is a function of the mind.
24:30
Yeah. And Speaking of PwC, like
24:33
something I very, very much appreciate about PwC is the
24:35
professional framework there. You know, there are five, what I
24:39
say areas when it comes to the professional framework for
24:43
assessing individuals. And I always tell my colleagues
24:49
that they gave you guys, they gave us the cheat code to
24:54
succeed. You know, in life and business,
24:56
the framework starts with whole leadership, right?
24:59
You should be able to lead yourself and lead others.
25:02
Work on those technical competence, a highly, highly
25:06
skilled actual area called competence, right?
25:09
Global acumen, be able to work with cross functional teams.
25:13
Business acumen, understand the business environment, understand
25:17
the business ecosystem, understand the important pieces,
25:20
metrics and of course building relationships.
25:24
Very, very important. You know, when you have these
25:27
five things, you know, unlock, I don't see how you're not going
25:31
to be successful in business. I don't know if you would like
25:34
to say something you know about that framework and what.
25:37
What are your thoughts on the framework?
25:40
Yeah, I mean this comes back to the conversation we had around
25:43
innovation, right? So what do you weave into the
25:46
the fabric of your organisation so that you can give people a
25:50
really smart and understandable way to see their path through
25:56
the organisation or see their path and what they're expected,
25:59
expected to do and from a performance perspective, et
26:02
cetera, et cetera. But you've also got to give them
26:05
the ability to challenge that. And to as a small business
26:09
owner, you have to think the same way.
26:11
Give yourself a path, but give yourself like the opportunities
26:14
to challenge it as well. And so that, that sort of,
26:17
there's friction there for sure. And the like, the, the magic is
26:22
in being able to balance that friction so that you, you know,
26:26
you can carry on as like in and let your machine run, but also
26:31
start poking at the edges. And I find that this is a really
26:33
important conversation with small business owners and their
26:36
understanding, their role in their organisation, that they
26:39
typically start as the doer, as the subject matter expert, as
26:43
the person who's doing everything.
26:46
And then, you know, they, they hold themselves to this
26:49
responsibility. But there's, they very, very
26:52
rarely are innovating because they get so bogged down and in
26:56
the day-to-day. So they when they start to shift
26:59
their role inside their organisation and challenge their
27:01
role inside the organisation, and then they can give
27:06
themselves the space and the freedom to actually challenge
27:10
their own structure and challenge their own, you know,
27:13
match the machinations they've built inside their own business.
27:16
So how you think about yourself in your business and the role
27:18
you give yourself inside your business is actually really
27:20
important. I see you very much believe in a
27:24
balance of structure and a culture and that actually helps
27:27
with innovation and staying agile to to remain relevant and
27:33
resourceful for for the future. You know, you talk about the
27:37
concept of value of realisation. So how can business consistently
27:44
integrate value realisation into the strategic decision making?
27:49
Well. This is about like the closing
27:52
the loop, right? So I've invested in doing
27:55
something. I've invested in, you know, a
27:58
new strategy or I've invested in creating something inside my
28:01
business. And we do this even in public
28:04
sector organisations. You still have to go back and
28:08
ask yourself and check in on on the value that you've created
28:12
for your business in with all those investments.
28:15
Even if it's a day of my time I've invested in creating
28:18
something inside my business. What value is it creating for
28:20
me? When you when you dig into the
28:23
product management mindset, and this is sort of a friend of mine
28:26
for me right now because I'm building out a product
28:28
management practise inside of a big organisation.
28:31
The product management mindset is all about value.
28:35
So when I see organisations and there's a, there's a parallel
28:39
here for the small business, so stay with me.
28:41
But when I see organisations move from a project mindset,
28:47
we're just doing more and more stuff to contribute, but we're
28:51
not looking at it from a like a more holistic perspective then
28:55
you. I would say that's not a value
28:57
focused mindset. That's just like do another
29:00
thing, do another thing, do another thing, but we're never
29:01
looking at it from the perspective of what value are
29:04
are we creating inside the business.
29:05
So when we shift to a product back to mine and said we are
29:09
shifting to looking at all of these interrelated parts of the
29:13
projects we take on and looking at it from as a roll up and the
29:18
value creation inside the business.
29:19
So this is what we're starting to do with all of these folks
29:22
inside of this organisation where we're saying, OK, so yes,
29:25
great. You, you built these five
29:28
business applications. What's the value you're getting
29:32
from them? Well, the value is rolled up
29:34
into a product. It's a piece of value we're
29:37
creating inside the organisation.
29:39
What is that value? What's it contributing when you
29:42
start to ask those questions? It's really confronting to an
29:45
organisation that's been used to just, you know, doing stuff for
29:50
a long time because that in this particular moment they can
29:53
justify it. But nobody's looking at the long
29:56
term and saying we've invested $20 million into this portfolio
30:00
of projects. What are we getting for that in
30:03
a for profit organisation? That's a real really important
30:07
question because it affects, you know, profitability and it
30:10
affects, we're always trying to maximise what we get from our
30:15
investments in a, in a public sector organisation.
30:18
That's still a really important conversation because you are
30:21
accountable to taxpayers, you're accountable to stakeholders, and
30:26
being able to be accountable is super important and to be safe
30:30
and to be, you know, compliant. So that shift in mindset is also
30:35
still relevant even in a small business where you ask yourself
30:39
on an ongoing basis, what value did I create from this
30:42
investment? You know, what value did I
30:44
create from, you know, the time I put into something or, you
30:48
know, going on this business trip or whatever it might be.
30:53
So, So what do you say from the private sector perspective, the
30:57
evaluation is more on the quantitative side, while from
31:02
the public sector perspective, the evaluation is more from the
31:05
qualitative perspective? Necessarily like we do all of
31:10
the economics, like the economic conversations.
31:13
And I think in the public sector they're just not used to doing
31:16
that. But it's no different than in a
31:18
private sector organisation where you there's a number
31:21
attached to the value you create around anything, right?
31:25
Your number just happens. You just happen to have a sales
31:29
number and a revenue number. Public sector organisations are
31:32
still bringing in money, they're still bringing in funds.
31:35
It's just for a different purpose, right?
31:38
So that those funds still have to be managed, they still have
31:41
to do something. So if we are not, you know,
31:45
funding our organisation, we're not creating value inside the
31:49
organisation because the more we fund the organisation, the
31:52
better we can serve their constituents, right?
31:55
So there's still a value realisation, economic
31:58
conversation to be had even in a public sector organisation.
32:01
And this is a new way of thinking for a lot of public
32:04
sector organisations, right? And frankly, I think it's one
32:06
that taxpayers should be demanding, right?
32:09
They should be. Absolutely.
32:11
Asking for because when you're inside these organisations you
32:15
can really see how much we're wasting.
32:19
Inefficiency. Let's put it in a nice way.
32:22
How much inefficiency exists in the public sector?
32:25
But it's not coming from a bad place, like it's not coming
32:29
from, you know, just lazy people or whatever.
32:32
It's coming from a lack of agility and a lack of
32:36
flexibility inside these organisations and too much
32:39
commitment to rigidity and too much commitment to to these
32:44
structures that have kept them safe for a long time.
32:47
Yeah, yeah. Well, there's, I mean, yeah,
32:50
there's a huge conversation to be had about, it's not black and
32:52
white, but I think introducing the concept of value and
32:56
economic impacts of capabilities inside of public sector
32:59
organisation is really interesting because it's, it's
33:01
not some, it's not a way that they've, they've built their
33:04
organisations in the past, but it still is relevant.
33:09
Absolutely relevant. You know, you talk about
33:11
understanding the economics of business capabilities, so are
33:15
you able to give a practical example of how small businesses
33:19
can apply these insights to accelerate their growth?
33:23
Yeah, I'm glad that you asked. We are just starting up a new a
33:26
new startup which is based on a like a body of knowledge and
33:32
then a piece of IP that we've created.
33:34
My partner and I both come from an organisational design
33:36
perspective and we see, we see a lot of how a misunderstanding or
33:40
mismanagement of the human side of a business can totally impact
33:45
value inside of a small business, right?
33:48
So especially these high growth companies that are going through
33:51
there like 50 to 500 people growth, right?
33:55
So I think when we, when we look at the human side of a business,
34:00
this isn't motherhood and apple pie, this isn't HR practises.
34:04
This is like what actually happens and where what are the
34:07
capabilities we've built inside of the organisation that are
34:11
actually affecting how profitable that we can be.
34:14
For example, high growth companies, they have a lot of
34:18
turnover. They have a lot of like not even
34:21
turnover, but velocity inside of their people.
34:24
Like their people will come on board and they'll start here and
34:27
they'll very quickly go over here and there's all this
34:29
institutional knowledge that gets lost.
34:32
And so you have a lot of waste in like onboarding new people
34:37
and, you know, not knowing where to get the knowledge that they
34:40
need. And, and this like the the non
34:43
codified knowledge. There's this whole concept of
34:46
natural networks inside of an organisation that we don't think
34:49
about. Well, it's called organisational
34:53
network analysis, right? And it's actually really real
34:55
and, you know, moving to organisation organising teams
34:59
around those those natural networks and capabilities as
35:03
opposed to organisation organising teams around function
35:08
new concept, right? So that concept of capabilities
35:11
and how those capabilities affect the profitability of that
35:14
organisation is actually really real.
35:16
And so we're trying to help these small high growth
35:20
companies understand how focusing on those capabilities
35:24
can actually make them a lot more agile and make them grow
35:27
faster without all of these trip UPS that they get into when they
35:30
have high growth and with people, right?
35:33
So would you say that is more inclined towards a project
35:37
management perspective in terms of the the organisational
35:41
structure instead of being structured based on function?
35:44
But structured based aren't teams and achieving specific
35:48
goals. I don't think it has anything to
35:51
do with project management. I think this is, you know, a
35:54
great example would be most organisations try to build their
35:58
teams around. They need a I need a salesperson
36:03
and I need a like a project manager and I need AI, don't
36:09
know a software developer and I need a whatever.
36:13
But those people are still people and they they integrate
36:19
and they interact in really different ways.
36:21
And there might be a lot of friction there because you're
36:23
not thinking about the people. So when we actually build teams
36:26
around strengths and around capabilities, instead, we would
36:29
say I need a team who has a commander, who has a connector,
36:34
who has a diplomat, who has a like.
36:37
This is how we structure our teams.
36:39
Instead. That can be a lot more
36:41
effective, especially in high growth than, you know, trying to
36:46
together these more functional teams.
36:48
So that's the hypothesis right now that we're sort of playing
36:51
with and building a body of knowledge around that.
36:54
Well, and how's that going currently?
36:58
It's in its infancy, right? But there are there are tools
37:01
out there and there are methodologies out there that are
37:03
already starting to dig into this.
37:05
We're trying to build something that's in the intersection of
37:08
all of those. So if you look at organisational
37:10
network analysis and that's the start, that's like observing and
37:14
mapping natural networks inside of an organisation, like who
37:17
goes to who for knowledge all the time?
37:19
And where do those, it's almost like deer trails in a forest,
37:22
right? Where the where's the path of
37:24
least resistance? So that organisational network
37:27
analysis is the start of that kind of inquiry, right?
37:30
Like let's not force people into a structure that isn't natural.
37:35
Let's actually look at what people are naturally doing
37:37
already in terms of their internal natural networks and
37:40
let's start to build around those and see how much that
37:44
effects and improves the. It could be productivity you're
37:48
trying to improve, it could be retention, it could be knowledge
37:52
management, it could be lots of different reasons that you might
37:54
look at that. But those hypotheses are are
37:59
enabled by understanding all of this kind of stuff, right?
38:02
So this is in its infancy, but it's an example of how we have
38:05
to look at capabilities differently and understand that
38:08
how those capabilities have a direct correlation to the
38:11
profitability and the health of the organisation.
38:14
Speaking of the health of the organisation, when it comes to
38:17
small businesses, curiosity plays a role for founders,
38:24
right? So what role do you think
38:26
curiosity plays in terms of helping founders become
38:31
successful entrepreneurs? And how can leaders foster a
38:36
culture of curiosity and a growth mindset within the
38:41
organisations? Well, it comes back to what we
38:44
talked about earlier, which is that dichotomy between curiosity
38:48
and judgement, right? So when we create a real
38:50
judgement focused culture, like things have to be good or bad or
38:54
we we won or we lost, that's where people start to try and
38:58
fit into those really sort of boolean and then you get false
39:01
positivity, right? You get people always trying to
39:05
be rewarded for something that was good and having a lot of
39:08
fear around something that's bad.
39:10
And so they don't take chances and they don't take risks and
39:12
they don't that creativity doesn't get flourished, right.
39:16
This book that I, if anybody's really interested in reading
39:19
more about this, there's a book called Wellsprings of knowledge.
39:21
And it's from, you know, it's, it's older, but it was, you
39:24
know, really interesting to think about how we, you know, we
39:28
build these very human sides of curiosity and creativity and
39:31
innovation. So a leader who leads with a,
39:37
with judgement, everything has to be good or bad is, is
39:41
quelling curiosity, right? And so if you ask yourself that
39:44
question, how am I leading with curiosity and encouraging
39:49
curiosity? We still need the structure, we
39:51
still need the goals, we still need to know.
39:53
Everybody feels we're much more comfortable when they know where
39:56
they're going and their expectations.
39:58
But you leave the edges open and you, you can demonstrate how
40:02
your own curiosity can help us. So it's the difference between
40:06
have AI, have an instinct that maybe you know, we can follow.
40:10
This we can try this path for product development and and like
40:14
there's a new opportunity in the market.
40:15
The difference is a leader who shows up and says, we have to do
40:19
this thing. We're driven by competitive, you
40:21
know, forces and like we're going.
40:24
I worked in the.com days and I this was rampant, right?
40:27
Oh my gosh, we have to like every day you were shifting and
40:30
that gets really chaotic and and hard for for the team.
40:33
And instead of I show up and I say, hey, I learned about this
40:36
idea. I was having this thought, let's
40:40
take a little team and go explore that.
40:42
So instead of being like, oh, we're going to go follow a new
40:45
direction. It's like, hey, I wonder, I
40:48
wonder what could happen. And you give people the
40:51
permission and the, and the ownership of exploring that
40:55
piece and you respect what they come back with.
40:58
That's curiosity. You know, sending everybody off
41:02
on a wild duck chase is not curiosity.
41:04
So a lot of like founders will get into that space of thinking
41:08
that they have to be the ones that are driving innovation and
41:12
always creative and always, you know, the next big tech bro,
41:17
right? In reality, in reality, the
41:20
respect that you have for your people to come back and say how
41:23
we, we, we, we went and we investigated this thought or
41:28
this idea and here's what we came back with, right?
41:31
That's curiosity. Curiosity to say killed the cut,
41:35
but satisfaction brought it back.
41:37
So it's almost the end of the show.
41:39
I've got 6 minutes left on the clock.
41:42
What's your last piece of advice to young entrepreneurs looking
41:47
to make it big and become the next big tech bro called the
41:52
next, You know, hotshot, you know, in the beat of space.
41:57
My advice to you is don't try to be that first of all.
42:00
Right. Because, you know, smart
42:03
companies are the ones that that grow in balance, right?
42:07
They grow in an intelligent way and it's throttled, right?
42:11
So when you're motivated to try and just get the highest growth
42:15
possible, you will end up in a trap.
42:20
So that's the I mean, and that's that's what most people hear
42:24
about in these big Silicon Valley stories and hyper growth.
42:28
I think we're really moving away from that in the small business
42:31
space and in the entrepreneurial space, you know, there's and
42:34
it's becoming quite divided. I think there are very smart and
42:37
effective ways to approach growth, but always put it in
42:42
balance like we want to invest a certain amount of our, our, our
42:46
investment in our business into what's working and be clear on
42:49
what's working while constantly challenging that and looking for
42:53
new opportunities and being curious about those new
42:56
opportunities. So always try and strike that
42:58
balance because that's what helps you with the long run
43:01
rather than trying to be the the next superstar tech pro because
43:05
those those stories are are actually quite few and far
43:09
between. It's much.
43:11
It's much more common. It's not words I.
43:14
Had on my mind. If you're far between.
43:16
It's much more common for people to burn out and to fizzle out
43:20
and to fail. So like, just be smart, right?
43:24
Don't let ego. Don't let ego drive your growth
43:26
strategy. Absolutely 60% plus of
43:31
businesses feel in the first five years and that's that's a
43:36
very, very weak it's statistic. We've come to the end of the
43:43
questions from me to you, but you know we have to take you
43:46
through the Pacific Ring of Fire that is the quick fire round
43:51
five questions quick answers 4 minutes left on the clock to say
43:56
it takes 4 minutes to save a life.
43:58
So Are you ready to rock'n'roll? Let's.
44:01
Do it. OK, tea or coffee?
44:03
Yes. Which would you pick, tea or
44:06
coffee? What would you pick?
44:07
Tea, I'm gonna go. With tea because I'm getting I'm
44:10
becoming an old grandma lady. It means that they need you in
44:14
London. The the tea culture is strong
44:16
here. 2. Of your favourite innovation of
44:19
all time. Line banking.
44:22
Wow, that's that's a good one. That's a good peak.
44:26
I love that one. Book that every entrepreneur
44:28
should read. Must read except from your book.
44:33
Right now, I would say X is easier than X, and I will caveat
44:38
that with it's not because it's a piece of like outstanding
44:41
literature, but once you get the concept and the idea, it makes
44:44
you think really differently about the work that you're
44:46
doing. Fantastic.
44:48
I think should get that one and maybe we have at that in the
44:52
show notes, the link in the show notes, early mornings or late
44:55
nights. Early mornings.
44:58
Early morning that then we should run a business together.
45:00
I'm a night owl. I'll do the night shift, you
45:02
take the day shift and everybody's happy.
45:05
And of course, a number 51 word to describe your entrepreneurial
45:10
journey so far. Wonder.
45:13
Wonder my own word would be adventurous.
45:15
Well, for me to you, it's a very, very big thank you.
45:18
I always say these on the show. Gratitude is good attitude and
45:22
when a person shares their time with you to share their life
45:24
with you. So for me to you, Stephanie
45:26
Hayes, it's love and respect to you and of course to our
45:30
audience. Please do the needful encourage
45:33
me by supporting with sharing this with your network.
45:37
And of course, I keep working tirelessly to bring in
45:39
fantastic. Great, resourceful individuals
45:42
like Stephanie, the Founders founder, Hayes, tell, tell, tell
45:47
your big boy that you have a new nickname, you have a new
45:50
moniker, and of course, Stephanie.
45:52
Do you want to give a shout out to anyone before you leave?
45:55
And please encourage our audience to to to the needful.
45:59
The most important people to me have been my clients, right?
46:02
They have taught me everything that I've needed to know and
46:04
they have, you know, helped me evolve as who I am.
46:09
And so I would just say thank you to all of them.
46:12
Wow, a very, very big thank you to the clients.
46:15
You know, we, we, we. There's no business without the
46:18
clients, you know. That's.
46:21
Right. Well, and of course, there's no
46:22
podcast without the audience, guys.
46:25
Till I come away soon. Please stay out of trouble, keep
46:30
believing in yourselves. Impossible is nothing.
46:32
And of course, always, always go for something.
46:35
Always have a drive to succeed. And of course, if you've got any
46:38
questions, please put them in the comment section.
46:41
Don't ask me the questions. Please direct them to Stephanie.
46:44
She's the pro, she's the pro and I'm the Joe.
46:48
Love and respect to you guys. See you soon.
46:51
Thank. You.