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I've Got the Device and App - What Now? · AAC Access All Areas

• Ali Battye: Hello everybody and welcome to AAC Access All Areas. My name is Ali Bhatti. Ruth: I'm Ruth James and today's question is I've got the device I've got the app what now? Ali Battye: So we've kind of been building up to this one, haven't we Ruth, that the last two episodes have been around ⁓ which app and where do I get a device and accessories. So now we're thinking that you've probably chosen your app, maybe purchased it from the app store and then, yeah, depending on which app you've chosen. So we were just having a little chat before we went on air. Listen to me. We're pros now, aren't we Ruth? You've got the lingo. And we thought maybe we would start with a newish app, new, well newer, it's probably about five or six years old by now. But proloquo. Ruth: Thank Ali Battye: as opposed to Proloquo2Go. They're two different apps, but Proloquo was released in response to parent feedback because Proloquo2Go, you have to make lots of decisions about grid size and ⁓ vocabulary and level of vocabulary. So Assistiveware, who develop both apps, decided to develop this second app called Proloquo, which is basically ready to go out of the box, so you don't get to choose the grid size. I think it's about, if I had to guess, it's like between 60 and 70 buttons maybe on the page, and they are fixed. So you've got like call words on the home screen and you don't do anything with the home screen, but then you can personalize the topics when you go into the topics. So of all of the robust apps that we've talked about I would say proloquo is sort of the most ready to go without needing to make any decisions. So if that's if you are a parent and that is what you are after that might be a reason to take a look at proloquo. So should we move on to proloquo to go next? Ruth: Yeah. Yeah, well, I guess we talked about, we? Like, how do you actually talk about this without kind of going through each different app? But there's kind of a group differently, aren't they? Where, like you say, prolo quo is straight up, it's already there, there's no decisions, just add your vocab. Whereas prolo quo to go. And I think I'm right in saying snap core as well. When you add the apps, there's been Ali Battye: No. Yes, that's the same, you choose your grid size. Ruth: Yeah, and their decisions are then needing to be made. So you're thinking about how many symbols are on one ⁓ page. And I generally recommend go for pretty much the maximum that is available. The one that Proloquo2Go particularly recommends is their 7 by 11 grid, which isn't as big as it can go, but is kind of their recommended one. And 7 times 11 would be what? Ali Battye: Yeah. 77 isn't it? I hope so. My maths is really bad. Ruth: 77. Yes. I am definitely a speech therapist. My life is awful. But yeah, 77 symbols. So you can add more, but you can also have smaller grids. But what it does that I quite like about Prolo is if you want to make it sort of grade it up and down, is that it does the work for you. So you don't have to choose which symbols to keep and which ones to get rid of. It's sort of Ali Battye: Yeah. Ruth: gives you a guide so you can kind of start from a grid size. But I think if you're not sure or you start on the seven by 11 grid, for example, with Proloquo2Go when you're going through the settings and setting up and you feel like you're not sure whether for you as a, particularly as a parent, some parents can find those busy screens quite overwhelming when they first get going, is they have quite a nice thing on Proloquo2Go called Crescendo. where you can kind of grade vocabulary up and down. Now generally I don't advise hiding symbols, I don't advise kind of minimizing vocabulary, but if it genuinely does feel too overwhelming and you're like I'm not sure how to navigate it and maybe just over a few weeks you grade up to that full symbol, full 77, what you can do is crescendo. I think it's there's six or maybe eight stages. So stage one has the 77 size grid, but you only get Ali Battye: and. Ruth: maybe like eight symbols on it and then they stay in the same place as you go to stage two it just releases more symbols. And so I would always say start on everything and start on the best you know the biggest grid size or the recommended grid size because again we've talked about before haven't we that a lot of work goes into there's speech therapists there's teachers there's researchers that go into creating these apps so Ali Battye: Mm. Yes. Mm. Ruth: trust their judgment ⁓ and if they're recommending 7x11 that's probably for a reason because that's the most accessible for most people, that sort of thing. ⁓ And I think that's where sometimes people can get a bit overwhelmed, can't they? As you've got the app, you download it and then it's got all these settings and options. ⁓ So I think having a look at them, because usually once you set them, you can go back and change it again. So having a little bit of a play about with them is a good idea. ⁓ Ali Battye: Yeah. Yeah. Thank Yeah. Ruth: But generally, would say go for more symbols, not less. You know, like we think about, don't we? Like our kids can look at a screen. Ali Battye: Yes, yeah, go for the maximum. Yeah, I would say go for the maximum that the child can accurately select. So it might be that you have a little. Well, I quite like the ⁓ YouTube test actually. So have a look what a child can do on YouTube and have a look at the size of the like the accuracy on YouTube. And if they've got like really good accuracy and can go into the search. bar quite accurately then I think the 7 by 11 on proloquo to go would be fine for them. Ruth: Yeah, I think that's it, isn't it? Like we think about which symbol sets do you go with and how many and you think how many children can open up the Netflix with all the little thumbnails and find the picture which ultimately is what a symbol is of the thing that it is that they want. So if they have capacity to do that, even if they don't understand the symbols yet, they have capacity that we can teach them. think big, know, think plenty of words and plenty of symbols rather than less. Ali Battye: Mm. Ruth: ⁓ And yeah, so I think that's kind of the next stage, isn't it? If you've got an app, decide on how many symbols you're going to put on that screen, but hold in mind and presume that your child has potential to manage that many symbols and they have potential to be taught that many symbols. And then just monitor, you you'll get a feel for whether maybe this feels a little bit too many, maybe this isn't enough, or, you know, like some... Ali Battye: Mm. Ruth: ⁓ apps when you then go into like the topic folder you can then make the button slightly bigger on a topic folder so maybe you know you can play about with things a little bit like that. So I think yeah prolo and snapcore are kind of similar in that sense aren't they that you download it it's one vocabulary set but you have choices to make in terms of how much Ali Battye: Yeah. Well, in TD snack. I'm just trying to think because I think if you get TD Snap, you do get a choice of vocabularies. So Snap and Core is the most common one that people seem to go for, for good reasons. It is a good one. But they recently released something called TD Express, which is a bit more pragmatic and phrase based. So it's a bit like VocoChat in Grid. And then they'd also got some older vocabularies available. Ruth: Interesting. Ali Battye: as well like is it communicator. So you do yeah you get some choice with TD snap as well like you do with grid for ipad where you get lots of choice. Ruth: Alright. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think actually it's just made me think about another thing that people might get a bit confused about is when you're setting up your ⁓ apps that Proloquo2Go uses a set of symbols. And then when you're in any of the Tobii Dynavox, the TD ⁓ apps, they use a different set of symbols. And then in grid, can choose from all the sets of symbols. So Ali Battye: Hmm. Ruth: ⁓ That's something just to think about when you're setting up. If you've got a choice, you might have a choice on how many like buttons you get on a page, but you might also have a choice of which symbol sets the device and the app are then using. ⁓ Widget we've talked about before, haven't we? Tends to be, I'd say that's the more broadly used one in England. Most schools use widget software to create their symbols that you'll see on staff lanyards and schedules and that kind of thing. ⁓ But to my knowledge, Grid is the only app that has a license to use the widget symbols. Ali Battye: Yes, I think so. I'm just trying to think. I think that's right. TD Snap uses ⁓ picture communication symbols, PCS as its default because it also owns Boardmaker, is the ⁓ symbol software making software. Ruth: Hmm. Ali Battye: that came out completely scrambled. If you want to make paper based resources using symbols, one software is Boardmaker and that uses PCS symbols as well and Tohoby Dynavox and Boardmaker are part of the same company. that's PCS. So one symbol set is widget literacy symbols. Another is PCS, which is more American. So the vocabulary is more of an American vocabulary. And then there is Ruth: Mm-hmm. Ali Battye: also symbol sticks ⁓ and that came out with proloquo but you can also get symbol sticks within grid if you would like symbol sticks particularly. Ruth: Yeah, and PCS as well within grid. PCS, I guess, is one thing just to mention that they are particularly if you've got a child with a visual impairment or a cognitive visual impairment and you need high contrast. ⁓ I noticed because I asked this question to the Think Smart Box, ⁓ you know, their chat is great. They're on their website where you can ask a chat just yesterday that PCS. Ali Battye: Yes, you've been great. Yeah. Mm. Ruth: widget symbols are not licensed for high contrast. They don't have a high contrast symbol set within grid, but PCS do. So they're just a few things to kind of be aware of, I suppose, when you're setting up if you need to do particular things to improve the accessibility for your child. I think, yeah, downloading to ones where you know the vocab package and the size of the symbols is go big and stick with it. Ali Battye: Mm-hmm. you Ruth: but like you say, there are some differences, aren't there, particularly with grid, because there is a plethora of options. And we've talked a bit about, haven't we? You can't, they kind of broadly split when you're thinking about AAC into symbols and text based. And then when you're in the symbols based one, which I think what we've been talking about a bit more on the podcast, actually, is you've got super core. And then you've got vocal chat and super core as. Ali Battye: Yeah. Yes. in. Ruth: three different options because you can get their learning grids, which are kind of very topic-based specific, just one grid on one page. And then you come in and out of the different topics. You have Supercore 30, which is as it says, 30 symbols, and then Supercore 50, which as it says is 50 symbols. So when you download grid, you do then have a decision to make, don't you? And kind of download, the right grid set to your grid explorer as they call it. Ali Battye: you Yeah. Yes, yes. And again, you could potentially download Supercore 50 and VoCoChat and just compare them. those are the two that I use most often. it is sort of like I have in the past shown a parent both and like the parent might just have a strong feeling about I think this one's going to work better. But you can also do a clever thing where you have a bottom Ruth: And then. Thank Ali Battye: to toggle between. So a child that I'm working with at the moment who I saw this morning actually, she knows her vo-co-chat absolutely inside out and we now have a button that takes her to super core so that she can do more of the constructing a sentence from scratch using core words and then she's got the grammar feature as well that she can so on super core you can do Ruth: and Ali Battye: things like if you've selected a verb you can then use this magic wand thing to choose the verb tense so go can change to going or went ⁓ and she's definitely ready for that level of grammar now so we've kind of basically provided her with both Ruth: Cool. Yeah, and I think I often recommend the same to parents if you know, I'd show them if I if I was going in and I was working with that family as a therapist doing the assessment and stuff, I would show them the different options. I'd look, you know, I've got I think got prolo and TD snap call first on my iPad so we can have a look at the different options. We can talk through the differences that we're talking about now. And I think that it's a really good you know, if families decide that grid is the one for them, once you pay for grid, can download pretty much all, not all, but pretty much all of their grids for free within your monthly payments. So there isn't an in-app purchase here. So you can put Supercore 30, Fidgety Learning and VoCoChat all on your app and have a look at them all as a family, see which one your child's engaging with. And as you say, maybe like play about with each one. Ali Battye: Yeah. Yeah. Ruth: for a week and just see how that feels and then have look at another one because you don't have to make that decision and it's not then stuck there because then you might make a decision to use one of those and then like you say sort of the need becomes apparent for a different sort of vocabulary so I think that's quite nice isn't it that you can toggle between them and also put them all on at the beginning just to have a look. Ali Battye: Yes. ⁓ Yes, yes and you can also, ⁓ like you can also, I think you can also do this in TD Snap that you can add pages from different grid sets. So say you had selected VocoChat but you really like the keyboard in Supercore, you can import that keyboard from Supercore or like a timer or a clock or something from another package and TD Snap is the same. So on TD Snap, Ruth: . Ali Battye: you go on to Page Set Central and you can also see what other people have created. So we talked about this yesterday in some training that I was doing actually ⁓ that an AAC user who was on this training was saying that they have uploaded quite a few really bespoke pages like around trick or treating for example basically so that other people don't have to reinvent the wheel. So there might be something. always worth looking. This morning I was thinking about relationships and sex education vocabulary and I did a little search for that as well. So sometimes people have already made it so you don't have to reinvent it. Ruth: Yeah. I guess that's just made me think actually a little bit about as well because I'm working with a young person who is kind of moving into year nine, year 10. They're in a specialist provision. So, you know, when they don't group it by year, so I'm getting muddled with which year group they're actually in. But sometimes with the different vocabulary packages as well, once you've chosen the vocabulary you want within the app, it will then offer you an option. So in grid, for example, they have what they class as child vocab and then they have teen and adult vocab. So having a little bit of a look and think because particularly around sex relationships and that sort of vocabulary, the two packages, that is a really clear distinction between the vocabulary that is available in the teen and adult versus the vocabulary that is available in the child. And they're also set up slightly differently. So when you get to the teen and adult ones, maybe they have more like Ali Battye: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. and Ruth: college vocab, they might have more vocab about starting to organise things like your own medical appointments and you know like going to the bank and that kind of thing. So not that anybody goes to the bank anymore really do they? But the vocabulary is there. I think that's just another thing to note that that might be a prompt that you get when you are setting up the vocabulary. Ali Battye: Yes. Thank Thank Yeah. Ruth: ⁓ And then I suppose once you've made your decision over the vocab, it's then there. You have other settings to consider before you get to personalizing the vocab. I tend to start looking at things like the voice and thinking about what is the voice going to be like. So again, you can do a bit like with the different vocabulary packages. You could try a few out, see which your child responds to, see which one they like the sound of if you're using voice output because Ali Battye: Mm. Yeah. Ruth: I think sometimes we forget, don't we, that the way we sound is such an integral part of our identity. People will know it's us by listening to something without seeing who it is because our voice is a huge part of our identity. And that shouldn't be forgotten about in the setting up of an AAC device. know, we've got some brilliant technology now, haven't we, for things like voice banking for people with neurodegenerative Ali Battye: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Hmm. ⁓ Ruth: transitions where they can start to record themselves or they will piece together voices. There's so many incredible things but tangent but when bringing myself back to the point is that actually when you come to set up an AAC app that you can usually choose a voice or download a voice. So I work with a fab ⁓ young person whose family have set up an accent from the area that they live in so that when you hear it it's a child boys but it's got a slight west country, Wiltshire sort of borders twang to it, Somerset, and I think it's that's really lovely because you know that's kind of like what you would imagine. Ali Battye: Well, mm. That is great because we were always limited. Yeah, we were always limited before to Rosie or ⁓ what's the boy voice called? Harry. so if you went into a yeah, so if you went into a class where there were multiple AAC users, there might be the same voice being used with three different children, which didn't feel respectful. So I think having that range and that choice is really important. Ruth: I know, but I want to say gym. It's not gym. And have a play and see it as important to have a play and a bit of an experiment and you know with some of them you can even speed up or slow down the voices so if it feels like the right kind of thing but not quite yeah. So do you have a play with that as a setting as well when you're considering getting you've got your app, you've got your vocab, actually thinking about what does this child's voice sound like, what do we feel you know feels like something for them. Ali Battye: Yes, yes and change the pitch. Yeah. Yeah. Ruth: And then I guess the next bit is starting to personalise, isn't it? Like what's going to make it meaningful? Ali Battye: Yes, yes, yes, yes. So I have, like I have a little form that I send. to parents and I'm just going to kind of pull it up just to give some ideas about what I'm asking them if I can find it. Maybe I'll have to do it from memory actually. So I'll ask things like obviously like the child's name or any nicknames, pronouns, ⁓ members of the family, friends, any adults at school or personal assistants. And then things like what brings them joy. So what are their favourite activities and books and TV programmes, foods. And sometimes it can be really specific that we might need like very particular flavours of hula hoops and particular brands. And if that is important, when we're doing that editing, we'll try and get the picture of like McCoy's. ⁓ steak flavour and just check that we've got the right picture because it could be very distressing if we'd got slightly the wrong picture. what else is on there. It's things like anything that's special for them as a family like special things that they like to do or like ⁓ routines and quirks can be quite a nice thing to explore as a family or if they've got any religious or spiritual practices and we need some vocabulary around that. ⁓ Ruth: you Ali Battye: Can you think of anything else Ruth that we might be asking for personalisations? Pets obviously! Ruth: Yeah, I sometimes think about like special places, you know, some families have like a particular wood that that's their safe word that they always go through for a walk or so I think for me I tend to think about like what places as well as what activities they enjoy but also it's like that nuance isn't it about I might call it a wood but what do you call it so when you're saying to your child we're going here what word or what phrase do you use? Ali Battye: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you. Ruth: So even if you're not putting a picture, it will say the phrase that that child's used to hearing, for example. So I think, yeah, it's just anything that's special, isn't it? Because I think so often, historically, AAC stuff, people have gone, ⁓ right, I'll put all their snacks in. I'm like, yes, everybody loves to eat. But equally, it's not the most exciting thing to talk about. And it's a very practical thing. And generally, I don't think I've met a child or young person yet who only experiences joy through food. Ali Battye: Thank No. Thank Thank you. Ruth: It can be a very big part of the joy that they experience day to day, but it's often not the only thing. There's usually a place they like to go, an activity, a program, some music, a song, a game, know, toy. There's, usually something else that you can kind of scaffold some vocabulary around, isn't it? So I think it's kind of looking at when you're going to start introducing AAC, for me, it's thinking about where are you actually planning? Ali Battye: Mm. in. and ⁓ you Ruth: to begin because you kind of don't just start to you by using it all day every day. So as a family, which time is special to you that you can think about and carve out the vocabulary that's relevant and introduce it in that special really meaningful time? You know, for some families, that's like just bath time. It's just every day, their routine is the same at bath time. So we need the right vocabulary for that particular routine. And so then, it's just. Ali Battye: May. Yeah. All right. Ruth: then starting to do that work, isn't it? And I think you and I will both know how many hours it can take to do that personalizing. Like this is not a quick, ⁓ just this dash dash, job done, here we go. Like this work, it does take. Ali Battye: you Yeah, yes. ⁓ And it's never done, is it? I like the analogy with our house, that it's like our house, that there are always rooms or corners that need some work. So even when you've like, you've just redecorated your lounge, but now the kitchen's looking a bit sad and tired and needs a bit of a revamp. And AAC is exactly like that. So, you know, we're dealing with a growing child with changing interests and needs. Ruth: Yeah. Ali Battye: and situations in which they communicate. And that's gonna carry on for that's a lifetime. It doesn't like stop at 25 even, it's gonna carry on. So it's just gonna grow with that individual. Ruth: . Yeah. Yeah. yeah, it does. And I think it needs to be flexible, doesn't it? It's like any of us, like ⁓ learned new words just this week that I'd not heard of. And if I was an AAC user, that new language then needs programming and needs to be accessible. And it's the same for ⁓ They're constantly learning new words and having new experiences. ⁓ it just popped into my head, actually, one thing ⁓ I was thinking about when it comes to kind of that vocabulary and personalisation is that There's often I get asked the question of, do I put the symbol in or do I put the photograph in or like, you know, for some apps you can add in like a little mini video clip, can't you? And so what's the best way to, and I generally tend to say that presumed potential that the child can learn the symbol for that. But equally if the visual representation, so for example, if we take your Chris example, the packet of Chris can look quite generic. And actually if the child understands the word Chris, Ali Battye: Yeah. Ruth: and associates crisps with their very safe food flavor of crisps, then you're much better putting the photograph on because that will be meaningful to them more than the symbol. you know, there are some symbols, aren't there? Like if you go into, I don't know, like the toys page, generally a jigsaw piece puzzle looks like a jigsaw piece puzzle and bubbles look like bubbles. so they're quite similar in the symbol. So you might not feel you need those particular things to be represented by a photograph, but you know. Ali Battye: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and Yeah. Yeah. Ruth: Too often I think there's this sort of thing isn't there that the therapist knows and actually as a parent you will know what you think your child needs whether you think they need photographs or you think they need symbols for each bit of vocab that you're adding. And children often I would say respond quite nicely to like photographs of people rather than the symbols on the AAC because that feels really familiar and lovely. It's like looking at a photo album. Ali Battye: you Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, yes. And also you are pretty limited to the symbol representations of a person, aren't you? You can do sort of fancy things and change the clothing colour and the hair colour, and you can change skin tone, but it still is very, I'd say it's very gendered still. I know they are getting better, but yeah. ⁓ I think photos can be really nice for that reason because it really, you can really represent somebody's actual identity rather than something really generic. Ruth: Yeah, the symbols, I think, of people, like you say, you can generally now change skin colour so that it kind of improves representation. But they're still, think, to my knowledge, most of them are pictured standing up. There's none in like wheelchairs, but with the people in the... Ali Battye: Yeah, yes, yeah. And the same hairstyle. We've all got the same, like all the women have got the same hairstyle, I think. I don't think there's any with the pink scarves or... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we've still got a way to go there. Ruth: and it's all like a very sweet person with a triangle skirt. So I think generally for people that... little steps, isn't it? Little steps. But I think that's quite nice just to kind of think about you've got your app, you've got your vocab, you're now starting to personalise it and think about photos and think about symbols and think about where it's meaningful. And the other thing I would say is that you don't have to go, feet first, personalise every folder before you even show this. Ali Battye: Thank Yeah. Ruth: to your child, like you could personalize a little bit and just show it and then personalize a little bit more. What I would say is for me, in grid particularly, if you're using super core, they have topics folders or they have like a folder for play and a folder for daily living. ⁓ And I would say kind of almost if you're personalizing vocab, don't personalize the topic, personalize the right folder within daily or play because Ali Battye: Yeah. in them. Ruth: What you'll find is if you go into the topic folders, you just get loads of nouns. So you basically just get loads of thing words and you can't really model. I see the thing or I want the thing or I like the thing or have more of the thing. You just get the thing. ⁓ Whereas if you go into play and then add a folder for their particular toys, you can have all of the core vocabulary plus the relevant photographs. know, if they're really into Ali Battye: Yes. Hmm. Hmm. Ruth: I don't know, playing with Gruffalo toys. You could put in the photograph of each of their Gruffalo toy, but you still get all of the core vocabulary. So you can build a range of different modeling tools. Whereas if you just create a topic folder, all you'd have is the list of nouns for those toys, which doesn't really give you much to talk about with your child. So that would be something I would just say in terms of when I'm setting up grid, tend to Supercore, I tend to ignore the topic folders to start with. Ali Battye: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes. And then my messages ⁓ area is probably where you would want to personalise, isn't it? Because that's got things like my name is, I am however many years old and like, you know, you can put information about that person's family and interests and favourite things into that area. Ruth: Yes. Yeah, yeah, I love that folder as well. And for so many reasons, it's got so much good stuff in there, the messages one, it's just fast, isn't it? Which is good. So I feel like on a whistle stop, we have covered a bit about things to think about and settings you might come up against as you've downloaded the app you've chosen. We've talked a bit about which things to think about personalizing and whether to use photographs or symbols and kind of not to feel too overwhelmed with that personalizing because it is a very big task. So Ali Battye: and Ruth: take it in little manageable chunks as you go through. We normally finish on a glimmer, but do we have anything left to capture on personalizing, do you think, before we move to our glimmers of the week? Ali Battye: you We just had one little point to make because we do actually have a little chat before we start recording and that was respect the app. Ruth: Yes. Yeah, don't go. Ali Battye: So we've probably seen examples of where somebody has done some quite radical editing of the app and completely changed the home screen. ⁓ And that can have unintended consequences that you've accidentally deleted quite a few core words that that child is going to need later, or you've taken away whole folders because you felt that they weren't sort of like ready for certain areas. they will need those at some stage. And so I just kind of try to discourage anyone from changing the home screen at all, because that's like a really key part of its organisation. And I suppose I would say don't take anything away, just add to it. unless there was like really outdated, sort of like almost offensive language on there, because culturally Ruth: Mm. Ali Battye: we've moved on a bit, then I would say don't take anything away, just add to it. Ruth: Yeah. Yeah, and I think if you're thinking about what vocabulary might you take or might you keep, if you're not sure, just asking questions maybe of your family members, reaching out to AAC networks or kind of thinking about maybe speaking to school, that kind of thing. Because some of it might feel a bit uncomfortable, you know, if you've got a child of a certain age and there are folders on there, which particularly when children start exploring, they can find all sorts of things, can't they, on grid, that maybe we adults didn't even know was there, you know, the... Ali Battye: anything. Yes. Ruth: swear word section and the various bits around, you know, interesting body parts and that kind of stuff. So just thinking about, we don't want to gatekeeper child's access to language and that's not in our power. The problem is, is it is in our power, I think, with AAC and so people forget that that is a position that they hold. And we just need to be mindful of how we... Ali Battye: Yeah. Yeah. and Yeah. Mm-hmm. Ruth: and kind of bring our awareness, I suppose, the fact that it's a very powerful position to have hold of somebody's voice and be able to edit the voice and the words that they have access to and treat that with the importance that it carries. Yeah, and so not taking too much away. And yeah, ultimately respect the app. There's a lot of work that goes into designing these things. Ali Battye: Yeah. Yeah, yes, yes, because they have, you know, they've gone through sort of like years now of testing and different versions of them and research has gone into that of like what are the most important core words that should be on the home screen and how do they then lead to other folders and how are folders linked. So for example, the body folder has a link to health ⁓ or to sex. So all of those have been Ruth: Thank Thank Ali Battye: really carefully thought through. Ruth: Yeah, yeah, definitely. That was a heavy message to end on, wasn't it? Let's add in our glimmers to kind of... Ali Battye: It was! Maybe I'm feeling a bit heavy this week. I'm sorry, I'll bring my lighter self next time. Ruth: Thank you. No, you've brought your perfect self Ali, just as you should be today. I think just hold on to that. Has there been, have you got a glimmer that you'd like to share? I'm just thinking of one in my head. What's yours? Ali Battye: I have got a little glimmer. Yeah, I've got a glimmer from this morning. So this is probably like just a reminder to everybody, just keep modelling because ⁓ I'm working with a young person who ⁓ had very much learnt the pattern I want with AAC. So has ⁓ used a different app for quite some time and then we have introduced an additional one so they do still have that one but they've got an additional one and I have been modelling away like different sort of phrase constructions and this morning we were playing with this wonderful toy that I've got which is like 10 little presents and in each box there's a different item and he is brilliant at knowing all of the categories and navigates through the categories to say what they are and I've just been sort of lightly adding on things Ruth: Thank Ali Battye: things like see Teddy or drive car or fly aeroplane for quite a long time. And this morning he went and got it. So he was like really enjoying it. was going, you know, like drive car, drive aeroplane, go aeroplane, go car and play with Teddy, play with robot. And it was just really nice. It was just a reminder. Like sometimes you think that you're modelling and it's not. and you don't know that it's going anywhere and you've just got to like keep the faith, no, you know, keep offering that language. So yeah, that was my glimmer this morning. Ruth: Yeah. ⁓ that's so nice. have, I think, yeah, I have so many experiences of that, long-term modeling to the point where people think, should we, is this working or do we need to grade the vocab down or, you know, whatever. But there is always evidence, isn't there, that actually just sticking at it, these kids are clever cookies, you know, they get there. And if we're not doing it, then they won't get there. So we have to keep doing it knowing that at some point they will. Ali Battye: Well, Yeah. Yeah. Yes. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ruth: but yeah, well I've got, I've got a couple, but one that's sticking out just from this week is I, went to meet a child for the first time, ⁓ to start some work with them with their AAC. ⁓ so they're a proloquo score user. ⁓ that's what's kind of on their device. and Ali Battye: Mmm. ⁓ Ruth: It was that sort of thing of what vocabulary is there, how much is there there. And we were in their lesson, which was all about shapes. And the teacher was doing these really lovely, like, multi-sensory things. And they've got some specific boards for shapes in their lessons so they could, like, communicate about the shapes that they could see. And I thought, I'll just. I've just got this child's device on my knee. was literally just having a little look. I'd been in the classroom only a couple of minutes, but I opened it up and I thought, ⁓ well, let's go to like the shake section and just see. And so I just sort of had it on my knee and they looked and then they reached out and pointed and pressed the shape that they could see in front of them. And I was just like, this is going to be a lot of fun working with you. You know, you're like already, I just think this is, yeah, this is like going to be a really great session because that access, that vocabulary on the device. Ali Battye: Yes. Yes. Yes. Ruth: was interesting and meaningful to them, even when they're talking about shapes in a lesson. So I just think, ⁓ my god, what fun things are you going to have to communicate about if you will tell me that that's a square? So I feel like that was my little glimmer of a step into the future and the sessions that we're going to get to have some fun with over the next however many months. So yeah, no, it was a really nice time. Really nice time. Well, thank you so much for our chat today. It's been lovely. Ali Battye: Amen. Amen. Mm-hmm. Thank you Ruth and we'll see you next time. Ruth: we will that's right yeah for the next episode so thank you everyone for joining us and we'll see you again soon